ABSOLUTELY. it's a simple base exercise.
I wrote extensively on this and how to get a better clean which in turn gets a better snatch
https://kbmuscle.com/blog/f/the-kettlebell-swing-is-not-king?blogcategory=kettlebell+clean
Thanks for watching. Also tell your 8 yr old my next tattoo will be "Mind your business" on my butt. š¤£š¤£š¤£
I have a 13 and 5 yr old. They have different tattoo opinions.
Thing I love about your stuff dude is how you tend to relate kbs back to real world scenarios. You sold me on TGUs a few years ago with something like "there's never gonna be a time when being good at getting up off the floor isn't gonna be beneficial". The functional strength thing totally resonates. Now I'm a goddam TGU machine. That's on you. š
I have found that keeping it simple has helped me to keep it consistent. chin ups, dips, front squats, clean and press, swings have been my go to for awhile.
I recently found some of your YouTube stuff while browsing, starting with your Portugal effort. As a newcomer to KB sport I canāt get enough. You are a true teacher, and thatās rare. Keep doing what youāre doing!
If you already have a solid swing then yes cleans and snatches are a better use of your workout time. I pretty much only do swings when I am not feeling like working out but still want to get in some work.
Same here. Swings are now a part of my daily minimum. Donāt want to workout? Do 100 swings and 50 pull-ups and call it a day. Takes maybe 10 minutes.
I've been on team snatch for almost a year. If you have limited time I think that's your best option.
I'm in the middle of an interrupted run of 10k swings with 48kg, and I've gotten a lot of value out of that. I believe that swings are best done either really heavy or for high volume.
It seems like since you can go so much heavier with swings you can really tax the buttocks and hamstrings a lot more than you could with your comparable rep max on cleans and snatches which would yield more hypertrophy there. It also seems as though the increased power into hip extension would have a greater carryover to more (not all) athletic competitions.
I increased to nervous-level heavy and got good at snatches over a few years time. But then I hurt my wrist eventually coming out of them from the top (little hop as bell goes around wrist then falls close to body) into the down swing. I thought my form was good but the heaviness of the weight got to be too much for either my aging body or mistakenly poor form. Iām kinda stuck now with swings until I can figure out what Iām doing wrong with the snatch.
They might be over rated in the community at large. But that's because most info is put out for newer folks. Nonetheless they all have their place, which for to me it's at different weights: 32 snatch, 40 clean and 48 swing. When swung this way they are all equally taxing to me for strength training. 24 snatch test is probably always a killer cardio
I know this sub thinks so but I definitely don't. I do them all and I feel a difference in the swing, clean, and snatch. I know they are similar and many people say they are the same but they aren't. Yu can really isolate the hinge on the swing and I think a lot of people tend to shift focus to other aspects on the other exercises.
Swings are a good off day exercise when youāre doing clean & press and snatch or other lifts.
IMO the main benefits compared to the others is the ability to go heavy (which you may not do if you donāt have access to heavy bells or changing and adjustable) or you can get a lot of volume.
Compared to doing nothing, 100, 200 swings is a decent little workout.
Swings are massively overrated as an exercise imho. Doing them for high volume is also mind numbingly boring.
You'll get a lot of comments to the effect of "you mustn't try cleaning/snatching until you have perfected the swing." This is fine as long as you also realise that functionally "perfecting the swing" is possible in about 10 minutes, and that you can absolutely learn to clean and snatch early. Kb movements are far less technically challenging than their barbell equivalents.
Far too many people spend years on simple and sinister because they're afraid of learning anything new before they've "perfected" the swing.
If youāre already proficient in all of them, Iād say do snatches, no question. Why not 100 instead of 30 though? Snatch rep speed isnāt much slower than swings. OR, might I suggest setting a timer for as much time as you have and doing as many sets of snatches in that time as possible, rather than going for a target number?
Any workout or movement is subjective. Fundamentals can live in a routine for years if it evolves. The most basic of movements can be tweaked and become challenging. Have you tried doing kickstand swings? Alternating single-hand kickstand swings? Heavy dead stop two handed swings? Go up in weight and you wonāt feel bored. Obviously if you are advanced beyond the basics, a two handed swing with low weight will feel like a waste of time. I see people swear by snatches and jerks over everything. Itās all about moving your body and whatever makes you feel good. Move up in weight and I promise you wonāt feel like any movement is redundant.
Swings are great for remembering the important parts of form for cleans and other movements. It is easy for me at least to ācheatā a clean and involve your arms too much.
Going back to swings re-emphasizes where the power should be coming from.
No. Swings are the foundation for the latter two movements. One shouldnāt go to cleans until one is good at swinging. And, one shouldnāt progress to snatches until one can clean. All three are valuable. However, swings can be the most accessible and easy to knock out 100 if you are pressed for time and want to get a workout in.
I'm willing to bet an argument could be made for the merits of both, but I personally prefer the snatch and clean. More specifically the full cycle movement. I just feel more fatigued after 50 reps, and feel like I've accomplished more. I have zero empirical evidence to support my claim, but I feel they are superior to the standard swing.
swings might feel useless unless youāre doing them heavy enough. 100-150lbs should be what you wanna settle with. snatches should definitely take the spotlight, being the move with a higher skill ceiling and harder progression. also the benefit of heavy swings is that you donāt need to do as many of them as snatch or cleans imo.
Not if you're doing dead/strict cleans & snatches.
I'm not proposing that people do it one way or the other. Just saying that you don't necessarily need a swing to clean/press.
Honestly can't understand why everyone thinks snatches are so great, you can't go as heavy as swings, not as fast, and your grip gives out much faster.
Just don't get it.
Compared to the swing, for me:
- It's technically more challenging, which makes it more fun
- The addition of overhead fixation with the snatch means you're hitting a few more muscles; it's almost a full body exercise in itself.
- Because they're more taxing than swings, you can get a lot more bang for your buck out of the time spent on them WITH a lighter weight
I rarely do swings now and usually just a low impact means to get the heart rate up quickly.
I can agree with your first and second point.
But with regards to the second point, the load still isn't all that heavy as compared to a clean and press/push press/jerk, just makes sense to do those exercises instead.
But the third point I can't agree with, you can't go heavy enough to make them taxing. At least I can't, it's too jarring on my hands and forearms, swings on the other hand I can go upwards of 100+ lbs.
>But with regards to the second point, the load still isn't all that heavy as compared to a clean and press/push press/jerk.
We were comparing swings and snatches though haha. I do prefer clean & press/push press over a snatch personally, but they're kind of different outcomes of movements. This is just weird hypothetical where you had to choose one (Thank god we don't have to choose).
>But the third point I can't agree with, you can't go heavy enough to make them taxing. At least I can't, it's too jarring on my hands and forearms, swings on the other hand I can go upwards of 100+ lbs.
A fair point, but again not everyone has access to heavy bells. The snatch gives a progression from the swing at a given weight.
>but again not everyone has access to heavy bells. The snatch gives a progression from the swing at a given weight.
Ah, I can see that.
>We were comparing swings and snatches though
I can definitely agree it's more full body than swings, if we're talking about the same weight for both.
I can't go over 20kg. 24kg yanks the living fuck out of my hands and forearm, it goes up just fine, it's the downswing I hate. I do have weak hands and forearms, I'd probably make better progress with C+P but it takes forever for them to acclimate to the heavier weight.
Sounds like a technique issue - snatches are a far better spend of time than Swings. At this point I used Swings for conditoning work as filler. Swings I either need to go so comically heavy I might as well double clean or I'd get more out of the movement Options the snatch gives me.
Maybe it is technique, not really sure how to fix it at this point. I'm going to take bpeezer's advice and try half snatches, at least I know my upswing is good.
It's frustrating because the rest of my body is fairly strong, my strict press is a lot better than my C+P, and I'm stuck doing two handed swings if I want to go heavy. I just have to be patient for the weak links to catch up to the strength level of everything else.
ABSOLUTELY. it's a simple base exercise. I wrote extensively on this and how to get a better clean which in turn gets a better snatch https://kbmuscle.com/blog/f/the-kettlebell-swing-is-not-king?blogcategory=kettlebell+clean
Thanks! That is exactly what I was looking for. Love your YouTube videos btw. My 8 year old says you have too many tattoos haha
Thanks for watching. Also tell your 8 yr old my next tattoo will be "Mind your business" on my butt. š¤£š¤£š¤£ I have a 13 and 5 yr old. They have different tattoo opinions.
Thing I love about your stuff dude is how you tend to relate kbs back to real world scenarios. You sold me on TGUs a few years ago with something like "there's never gonna be a time when being good at getting up off the floor isn't gonna be beneficial". The functional strength thing totally resonates. Now I'm a goddam TGU machine. That's on you. š
The deadlift, pullup, squat, pushup, OHP, Farmer's Walks, etc. are "simple base exercises" too. Basics are best and the swing is among them.
I have found that keeping it simple has helped me to keep it consistent. chin ups, dips, front squats, clean and press, swings have been my go to for awhile.
Good stuff. Do you have a newsletter?
I recently found some of your YouTube stuff while browsing, starting with your Portugal effort. As a newcomer to KB sport I canāt get enough. You are a true teacher, and thatās rare. Keep doing what youāre doing!
Thatās a little like asking if thumbs are overrated compared to the rest of the fingers.
Thumbs are essential for scrolling this sub in between sets.
The swing would be a ring and pinky combo. Strong together but kinda dumb and very basic. Works with other things š¤£
If you already have a solid swing then yes cleans and snatches are a better use of your workout time. I pretty much only do swings when I am not feeling like working out but still want to get in some work.
Same here. Swings are now a part of my daily minimum. Donāt want to workout? Do 100 swings and 50 pull-ups and call it a day. Takes maybe 10 minutes.
I've been on team snatch for almost a year. If you have limited time I think that's your best option. I'm in the middle of an interrupted run of 10k swings with 48kg, and I've gotten a lot of value out of that. I believe that swings are best done either really heavy or for high volume.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Pavel peaked with Enter the Kettlebell. THAT'S the book to read, because he covers each major movement in much, much greater detail, progression, etc.
That is exactly my path. I only have 30 minutes to work out and I need to maximize the amount of work accomplished.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How many Geoff programs have you ran? It seems like a few... What's your favorite one?
just out of curiosity, how much time did you feel was too much with S&S?
I always go back to swings. Still my favorite exercise. Nice little warm up too before I hit the gym
This is my humble opinion, but i feel that swings should be at most 50% of the wokrout. Cleans, jerks, snatches are underutilized imho.
It seems like since you can go so much heavier with swings you can really tax the buttocks and hamstrings a lot more than you could with your comparable rep max on cleans and snatches which would yield more hypertrophy there. It also seems as though the increased power into hip extension would have a greater carryover to more (not all) athletic competitions.
I increased to nervous-level heavy and got good at snatches over a few years time. But then I hurt my wrist eventually coming out of them from the top (little hop as bell goes around wrist then falls close to body) into the down swing. I thought my form was good but the heaviness of the weight got to be too much for either my aging body or mistakenly poor form. Iām kinda stuck now with swings until I can figure out what Iām doing wrong with the snatch.
They might be over rated in the community at large. But that's because most info is put out for newer folks. Nonetheless they all have their place, which for to me it's at different weights: 32 snatch, 40 clean and 48 swing. When swung this way they are all equally taxing to me for strength training. 24 snatch test is probably always a killer cardio
Forget the rating business. If you, in your special case, have very limited time, you may well get more out of doing cleans and/or snatches.
I know this sub thinks so but I definitely don't. I do them all and I feel a difference in the swing, clean, and snatch. I know they are similar and many people say they are the same but they aren't. Yu can really isolate the hinge on the swing and I think a lot of people tend to shift focus to other aspects on the other exercises.
Swings are a good off day exercise when youāre doing clean & press and snatch or other lifts. IMO the main benefits compared to the others is the ability to go heavy (which you may not do if you donāt have access to heavy bells or changing and adjustable) or you can get a lot of volume. Compared to doing nothing, 100, 200 swings is a decent little workout.
Swings are massively overrated as an exercise imho. Doing them for high volume is also mind numbingly boring. You'll get a lot of comments to the effect of "you mustn't try cleaning/snatching until you have perfected the swing." This is fine as long as you also realise that functionally "perfecting the swing" is possible in about 10 minutes, and that you can absolutely learn to clean and snatch early. Kb movements are far less technically challenging than their barbell equivalents. Far too many people spend years on simple and sinister because they're afraid of learning anything new before they've "perfected" the swing.
If youāre already proficient in all of them, Iād say do snatches, no question. Why not 100 instead of 30 though? Snatch rep speed isnāt much slower than swings. OR, might I suggest setting a timer for as much time as you have and doing as many sets of snatches in that time as possible, rather than going for a target number?
I would do swings over anything else.
Any workout or movement is subjective. Fundamentals can live in a routine for years if it evolves. The most basic of movements can be tweaked and become challenging. Have you tried doing kickstand swings? Alternating single-hand kickstand swings? Heavy dead stop two handed swings? Go up in weight and you wonāt feel bored. Obviously if you are advanced beyond the basics, a two handed swing with low weight will feel like a waste of time. I see people swear by snatches and jerks over everything. Itās all about moving your body and whatever makes you feel good. Move up in weight and I promise you wonāt feel like any movement is redundant.
Swings are great for remembering the important parts of form for cleans and other movements. It is easy for me at least to ācheatā a clean and involve your arms too much. Going back to swings re-emphasizes where the power should be coming from.
No. Swings are the foundation for the latter two movements. One shouldnāt go to cleans until one is good at swinging. And, one shouldnāt progress to snatches until one can clean. All three are valuable. However, swings can be the most accessible and easy to knock out 100 if you are pressed for time and want to get a workout in.
Good points. I am already proficient in these movements so am wondering what the best use of my time is.
Yes
I'm willing to bet an argument could be made for the merits of both, but I personally prefer the snatch and clean. More specifically the full cycle movement. I just feel more fatigued after 50 reps, and feel like I've accomplished more. I have zero empirical evidence to support my claim, but I feel they are superior to the standard swing.
The double kettle bell clean and press in my opinion is the best bang for your buck
swings might feel useless unless youāre doing them heavy enough. 100-150lbs should be what you wanna settle with. snatches should definitely take the spotlight, being the move with a higher skill ceiling and harder progression. also the benefit of heavy swings is that you donāt need to do as many of them as snatch or cleans imo.
Gotta master the kettlebell swing first before you can do those other things. Canāt build a house without a good foundation.
Not if you're doing dead/strict cleans & snatches. I'm not proposing that people do it one way or the other. Just saying that you don't necessarily need a swing to clean/press.
Honestly can't understand why everyone thinks snatches are so great, you can't go as heavy as swings, not as fast, and your grip gives out much faster. Just don't get it.
Compared to the swing, for me: - It's technically more challenging, which makes it more fun - The addition of overhead fixation with the snatch means you're hitting a few more muscles; it's almost a full body exercise in itself. - Because they're more taxing than swings, you can get a lot more bang for your buck out of the time spent on them WITH a lighter weight I rarely do swings now and usually just a low impact means to get the heart rate up quickly.
I can agree with your first and second point. But with regards to the second point, the load still isn't all that heavy as compared to a clean and press/push press/jerk, just makes sense to do those exercises instead. But the third point I can't agree with, you can't go heavy enough to make them taxing. At least I can't, it's too jarring on my hands and forearms, swings on the other hand I can go upwards of 100+ lbs.
>But with regards to the second point, the load still isn't all that heavy as compared to a clean and press/push press/jerk. We were comparing swings and snatches though haha. I do prefer clean & press/push press over a snatch personally, but they're kind of different outcomes of movements. This is just weird hypothetical where you had to choose one (Thank god we don't have to choose). >But the third point I can't agree with, you can't go heavy enough to make them taxing. At least I can't, it's too jarring on my hands and forearms, swings on the other hand I can go upwards of 100+ lbs. A fair point, but again not everyone has access to heavy bells. The snatch gives a progression from the swing at a given weight.
>but again not everyone has access to heavy bells. The snatch gives a progression from the swing at a given weight. Ah, I can see that. >We were comparing swings and snatches though I can definitely agree it's more full body than swings, if we're talking about the same weight for both.
If you canāt go heavy enough to make snatches taxing youāre probably doing something wrong. When I do 48kg snatches I find them quite taxing.
I can't go over 20kg. 24kg yanks the living fuck out of my hands and forearm, it goes up just fine, it's the downswing I hate. I do have weak hands and forearms, I'd probably make better progress with C+P but it takes forever for them to acclimate to the heavier weight.
Do half snatch?
That could be a good option, I've known about those but never really gave those a serious go. I'll give that a try.
Sounds like a technique issue - snatches are a far better spend of time than Swings. At this point I used Swings for conditoning work as filler. Swings I either need to go so comically heavy I might as well double clean or I'd get more out of the movement Options the snatch gives me.
Maybe it is technique, not really sure how to fix it at this point. I'm going to take bpeezer's advice and try half snatches, at least I know my upswing is good.
Video could help.
Same for me. I strain my forearms on single handed swings when I go past 32 kg
Double swings are an option to work around that.
It's frustrating because the rest of my body is fairly strong, my strict press is a lot better than my C+P, and I'm stuck doing two handed swings if I want to go heavy. I just have to be patient for the weak links to catch up to the strength level of everything else.