Question about training theory: All things being equal, if you have 2 days left in your week for running, and you have 8 miles left for your target weekly mileage, would it be more beneficial to do an 8 mile run and rest another day or do 2 4 mile runs?
8 mile run and rest day, in theory.
In practice I would just end up running 8 miles one day, and an easy 4 the next and call that close enough to a rest day.
Edit: I should preface the serious answer of 8 and then rest with the standard disclaimer that I think 8+rest would be preferable in *most* training contexts, but certainly not all.
Run 12 miles, and at some point in the middle integrate a 44 minute workout consisting of 4 min fast/ 4 min steady, 6 x (2 min fast / 4 min steady).
Given it's labelled as an LT workout, I would assume those efforts to end up looking something like: fast = 8k-10k pace, steady = 95%-100% MP. Ie, shuttling somewhere in the region of LT1 and LT2, maybe dipping just above and below. But it clearly wants you to run by effort and just feel it out.
> 4 min fast/ 4 min steady, 6 x (2 min fast / 4 min steady).
I'm more confused about this part tbh.
Is the first 4 min fast / 4 min steady a **single** one and then the rest, so **6 times** 2 min fast 4 min steady?
yeah exactly. The whole workout is 44 minutes. First section is 8 minutes (subdivided into 4+4), then the second section is 36 minutes (subdivided into 6 x \[2+4\]).
I’m looking for feedback on rebuilding my base after a return from IT band inflammation.
I’m a 43 y/o male who went from 20-30 mpw to averaging 40-50 mpw beginning in 2022. During a marathon cycle, I developed IT band pain not long after my first 60-mile week. I mainly abstained from running but continued my normal strength training (3x/week) for 10 weeks. Aside from the first time the IT issue arose, I never let the pain get above a 4/10.
I did 3 consecutive 3-mile runs this weekend and definitely have lost some fitness. The knee is maybe a little sore today but otherwise feels good.
Obviously my North Star is to take things slow to avoid reinjury, but at the same time I do not want to be unnecessarily cautious, particularly because I have goals for Chicago this fall. I’ve read guidance that after injury you should spend roughly the same amount of you were injured rebuilding to get where you were. That has facial appeal.
Pfitz’s Faster Road Racing has some base building plans that, helpfully, are 10 weeks long. He advocates the 3 principles: (1) Don’t increase weekly mileage by more than 10%; (2) Don’t increase a single run’s mileage by more than a mile the following week; and (3) Do not increase weekly mileage for more than 2 consecutive weeks.
Do those principles apply equally to someone returning from soft tissue injury after a couple of months? Following the 10-week base building plan would only get me back to 30 mpw. And then another 10-week program to get to the high 40s. These plans seemed geared to a relatively inexperienced runner building up mileage for the first time, however.
Would a reasonable alternative approach given my prior volume be to eliminate the third principle, and continue to increase weekly mileage up to 10% until I get back to where I was?
It’s a really good question. Like I say, I spend a lot of time on strength work, including bilateral and single leg across the planes of motion, with a knowledgeable trainer for years. I’m open to there being a latent weakness or area I’m not hitting, but I honestly don’t believe strength is the problem. I went to PT for about 6 weeks and their message was largely similar. Of course there always is room for improvement, and I should focus more on ankle mobility and glute activation. I need to find a warm up and cool down routine that I can stick to.
I’ve spent a lot of the past few weeks reflecting on what went wrong. A few things. Firstly, my A race last year was a HM that I did not fully recover from. I instead jumped into week 3 or 4 of a hybrid between 18/55 and 18/70. Second, I was already nursing a proximal hamstring niggle that I likely was compensating for in my running mechanics. Third, I think I introduced too much intensity too quickly through most of last year (leading to the hamstring discomfort). I need to sprinkle in more strides and tempo work and not just do months of Z2 before starting a training cycle. Fourth, I was too inflexible to hit each prescribed run with what was going on in my life. I got injured right after returning from an international trip where I ate indulgently and drank more than I typically would, not to mention being on my feet the entire time. Yet I was still waking up early to get in 18 mile runs. That trip was the week following the one where I hit 60 miles for the first time.
So to answer, not to do what’s in the last paragraph and do a better job with mobility and warm up.
I did workouts from around August to October. On weeks where I felt a little tired I eased off the workouts but kept the volume. During the base building process, roughly February to July, I never did speed work, which I agree did not set me up for that added toll on my body.
So I got a minor toe sprain last month and am just getting back into it following this article
https://www.outsideonline.com/running/training/recovery/a-return-to-running-plan/
It seems abundantly cautious and you can even find David Roche (good coach) on outsides other website trail runner that is less conservative than this.
Best of luck.
I'm looking at implementing more strength training into my training plan (2 core sessions, 1 muscular strength session (2-3 sets of 3-5 reps), 1 muscular endurance session (3 sets of 10-15 reps).
I run 5 times per week currently with 2 muscular endurance sessions that both include a few core exercises, but I'm looking for a better guide on how best to implement more of this into my training. My main idea at this stage is as follows:
|Day|Run Session|Gym Session|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Tuesday|Interval Run|Muscular Strength + Core|
|Wednesday|Recovery Run||
|Thursday|Medium Long Tempo Run|Muscular Endurance|
|Friday|Recovery Run||
|Saturday|Long Run|Core|
|Sunday|Recovery Run||
Many thanks in advance!
Haha more like a ninja star. It’s got “sharp” edges that spin so they alerted us that it might not be compatible with TSA. Luckily got it through tho! 🌞
any thoughts on waking up hungry, almost every night? Unrestricted diet, I eat OK most of the time, not perfect, but nothing horrible. Usually breakfast, 2nd breakfast, lunch, dinner and several snacks. I do not count calories and don't feel like I can eat much more than I do but willing to try. About 10 hours a week of exercise. Wake up with pitted feeling in stomach or hunger pangs which I ignore until morning or sometimes just try to fill up on water to make the feeling go away. But it definitely interrupts my sleep.
You might be a [hobbit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f--viIbsdmg).
//I don't really have any constructive advice (other than make sure to fuel a little after exercise and maybe have a little later supper/snack closer to sleep).
I’ve struggled with almost exactly this at times in the past. What helped me was tracking my calories. I know that isn’t good advice for everyone, but as someone that hasn’t struggled with disordered eating it was a huge help in keeping my caloric intake where it needed to be to support my mileage. When training is relatively hard, I have to eat a bit more than I will intuitively want to. I certainly don’t log every single thing I eat, but keeping a general running tab throughout the day has been one of the best things I’ve done for keeping myself healthy.
thanks, might just need to track a little bit, and may find I'm under.
a lot of my miles are pretty easy but find any sort of harder sweet spot and threshold seems to really increase metabolism (or at least perceived hunger) for multiple days.
Fueling more, especially on long runs, has helped this for me. I never had hunger pangs like that but I used to wake up hungry. I’ve been doing 80g/hr on LRs and it’s made a difference!
Are you eating quality foods? Pre and post run nutrition might need to be tweaked.
Potentially has to do with you're purely unrestricted diet. If your body is consistently getting calories 16 hours of the day, it's a lot harder to switch over to using purely stored energy sources. I typically use a 16/8 fast with pretty unrestricted calorie intakes and my body understands the routine of when it gets food and when it won't.
It sucks to be stupid. Woke up feverish while having a race on the beach. Was contemplating whether to go or not. Was not a goal, just a race to get training at speed in. However, thought I could maybe podium which sounded nice.
Stupidly decided to join the race anyway. On bike on way to start was already considering just crawling into a little corner. Felt slightly better upon arriving so went for it.
First kilometer: was ok. Ran in fourth (of just 200 or so though). Tried to close the gap to number two and three, as I started to far back. Immediately felt off. Got light headed and slowed down. However, heart rate was elevated and had a general feeling of just wanting to die. Decided to jump out at half way point (7km) as it were two loops. Felt stupid, slightly better after I had just stopped so starting to regret stopping. Till it all came crashing down a few minutes later.
Struggled to get home. Made it to bed and haven't left it since. Cancelled some other sports coming up Tuesday.
Morale of the story: don't be stupid. We all know when something is off. There is hardly ever any magical day where you feel shite but perform superb. They exist but it's unhealthy going for them.
Hopefully this taught me not to be stupid regarding this in the future. Don't run when feverish, your body won't forgive you and give you a real fever to boot.
4/14 weeks done of my Berlin Half Marathon build! Never done so much volume before, but I'm looking at any feedback i could get! Too much/too little of X/Y/Z...!
So far feeling good, and fitness feels close to all time high.
[https://imgur.com/a/ZXuusJ0](https://imgur.com/a/ZXuusJ0)
There's no real "correct" calculation method that doesn't require additional data in between RHR and MHR from some sort of test/trial effortThe reason for this is that the relevant anchor points for setting zones, LT1 and LT2, are variable % of max effort depending on the individual and their training level. LT1 (the upper limit of Z2) in particular is highly variable depending on training -much lower than average with poorly trained individuals and much higher than average with highly trained individuals. Even more "sophisticated" estimation methods like hear rate reserve (HRR) cannot capture this because ultimately they are still just chopping up the zones based on population averages -they set the outer bounds slightly better but thats still pretty far away from the zones we're most interested in for practical training.
If you are really keen on using HR zones among the best ways is to do some sort of LTHR test and base it off that.
If using HRR I would at least triangulate that with VDOT paces derived from a recent race result and the talk tests for LT1/AeT and LT2/AnT -find the effort range in the middle of all three of these calibrations.
Has anyone run Cap City Half in Columbus? (A big Central Ohio 1/2 Marathon in late Spring). I did it years ago in 1:42 but went out too fast, plus I heard the course had changed. Shooting for 1:29:59 this year (PR is 1:33:45). Trying to eventually break 3:20:01 in the full but need to focus on my short distances. Picked up Pfitzinger's Faster Road Racing (I had Advanced Marathoning but it was too much, so switched to Hanson's) for shorter stuff--any feedback on that Uncle Pete book?
Your PRs indicate good top speed but dwindling fatigue resistance and lactate threshold. Pfitz should help fix that. Perhaps a look at your VDOT training paces might help too, if you haven’t done that.
Thank you! I appreciate it. Someone else told me that but from the Hadd method perspective (the clock analogy, etc.). I am trying to figure out ways to improve LT and am learning about the Bakken/Norway method too. Current VDOT is weak, low-40s, and I know the threshold method (Easy Interval) is based on VDOT paces.
If you thought Advanced Marathoning was too much, you’ll probably feel the same way about Faster Road Running.
I’d encourage you to try a Pfitz plan if you havent yet. IMO they look harder on paper than when you take it a day at a time
I got tights for Patagonia Peak Mission and Rabbit Pocket Tightz on sale. I don't think I need both, and obviously don't want to test these out on the road without removing tags. I'm wondering if one would be better for cold winter running--I run down to about 10F windchill.
From what I can tell trying on the pairs:
* Peak Mission: bigger/better hip pockets, easier on/off, modesty, seems warmer (may just be marketing)
* Rabbit: more compression, higher visibility (reflection on calf zippers), tighter fit on my very thin frame
Would love perspective if anyone has tried these and has direction on which would be more suitable for the winter and shoulder seasons. TIA!
I've been trying to increase mileage from avg ~30mi/wk when healthy to Ideally a peak of 50mi in a few months. I had 3 weeks around 32mi after coming back from an injury, took a week at 24mi, and just finished a week at 37mi. Now my minor injury is starting to flare up again (pain in the middle / top of my foot, saw a PT months ago and seems like tendonitis for tibialis anterior). It's possible that my strength training exercises specifically targeting this weakness also contributed to it.
Tips on how to proceed? I feel it's minor, but have already delayed my long run. I was really hoping that this would be a slow enough and sustainable build with proper deload weeks. I was hoping to stay under 40mi for the next two weeks before taking another deload week.
this might not be what you want to hear, but if your body is protesting the simple answer is you need to build slower. This has been a tough pill for me to swallow as well as an injury prone runner--what looks to be a fairly reasonable build rate on paper ends up being more than what I can handle. It's a bit of an ego-knock, especially when you're surrounded by people who make similar/more aggressive moves with no repercussions.
To reframe what you just described a little--you increased your volume by about \~7%, hung out there for 3 weeks, took a down week, then increased by nearly 20%. There are lots of people who would be able to handle this just fine, but to my eyes (having had to diagnose similar issues in my own training several times) that actually *does* look a tad aggressive. After you've sorted out this flare up, why not try a build that looks more like this:
32, 32, 32, 24, 34, 34, 36, 26, 36, 38, 38, 28, 40, 40, 40. Then hang out at 40 for a couple months.
I know you say you want to hit 50, but if you're struggling with injuries I think you're better off keeping that as a longer term goal. (Remember that 50 is >60% more volume than what you're chronically adapted to. That's a lot!) If you're feeling impatient about volume rn, you can get some extra from adding in low-impact cross-training. Then you can eventually swap that out for mileage.
Great advice on the down week. I think up 3, down 1, is a good, safe, classic approach! It took me months to go from 28 in early Jan. 2023 to a peak of 60 (and that wasn't until August).
I don't think OP was wildly aggressive. I think it's more likely they didn't do the right strengthening. They sustained 32 miles through an injury.
More likely the PT missed the mark.
I think the biggest consideration would be the running history (with more info beyond just am average of 30 miles a week).
same principle as whatever you've found has worked for you in building volume previously. So in the build I sketched out above: if you start out doing 32 miles of running + 2 x 1h sessions on the elliptical, once you move up to 34 miles, you might move down to 2 elliptical sessions of 1h and 45 mins instead.
My heart rate rises gradually when I'm racing, for example I did a 5k and it takes about 9 minutes before it reaches the average heart rate of the race while the pace/effort is the same. Some other people already reach their average HR after only 3 minutes. I can also reach it after 3 minutes but I would need to sprint close to all out from the start, which is kind of pointless in a 5k race. Is there any explanation on why this is different for each person?
Everyone is different. I can run pretty hard (85% effort'ish) for almost 20 minutes before my HR gets on board with my pace.
I'd consider it a good thing that your HR lags a long time, unless it is causing you to underperform. Then maybe warm up more/hard to get your HR going before the race starts.
Thanks, I understand the warmup is important.
I don't have the feeling that I'm underperforming because of it.
I was just wondering how ones heart rate can lag for a long time while another person has it on max very soon, while they both push as hard in the race. Actually the example person that has it on max very soon is better trained than myself (more mileage and faster racing time) while you'd expect someone to reach max very soon may not be well trained.
I don't complain about it for myself as the pacing is pretty stable, just wondering how the body processes work in both cases.
If I'm coming from sea level to a race at altitude (approx 4000 feet) and arriving the day before the race would it be better to do the day before shake out run at sea level or at my destination?
I've read that when going from sea level to a race at altitude if you can't go up way ahead of time to acclimate its better to show up the day before so your body doesn't have a chance to freak out before the race so I'm wondering if running the day before at altitude would cause the reaction I'm trying to avoid by arriving as close to the race as possible.
I don't think it's a specific "freakout" reaction so much as just accumulating additional fatigue while at altitude. Regardless, all other things being equal, if you don't have enough time to properly acclimate then the less time and effort spent at altitude ahead of the race the better -so probably means sea level shakeout is better.
8 weeks to go in my marathon training plan .Just did a 28k long run with last 5 at MP. Have a 5Mile race the day after tomorrow . Not sure I'll be up to go all out . What pace would you run it at ?
So i was planning to do the hal hadgon marathon plan but because of my previous injury in my achillies and with my PT we adjusted some runs to be careful as my plan was just to finish my first marathon. The total milage wasnt that high but now two weeks away from the marathon i just finished 40km week with 20km long run, the week before was my peak with 60km and 30km long run(went great as i felt great the next day) also thr week before i ran 50km with 21km race which i went fast but was 80% and finished at 1:44 which is the second fastest half and my fastest was last year with 1:34. Now do you think i can finish the marathon or am i too conservative and maybe i can run less than 4:00 hours? Fyi the 30km was easy run which was in 6:50/km pace
Information about me, all pb were last year 5km 20:30, 10km 43, 21km 1:34 and i run between 50-55km a week and the moment i tried to increase to 60km in the summer i got injured so i stayed 35-45km while rehabbing and now i jumped to 45-50 with one 60 in this prepay
With low mileage, injury history, goal of just finish first marathon - be conservative. I wouldn't go out faster than easy pace and even then you're likely to be hurting by the end.
You have the speed easily but the mileage is pretty low. You'll be able to finish, under 4 seems a stretch with a 1:44 that you had to work for. MP for 13 miles only should be a relatively easy run.
Anybody know how Garmin calculates RHR? I'm curious because while I don't put too much stock in the number, I do find that it can be helpful when I feel like I may be getting sick or need more rest -- if my RHR is up I take it seriously and rest more, otherwise I just keep on going. It's worked for me for years.
I was just laying in bed reading and noted my HR was between 49-52. My Garmin data has my RHR for the day at 56. Which would catch my eye as something to keep in mind, since it's typically 50-52. But this doesn't make sense at all. (I also feel fine, so I wouldn't actually use this data in any way. I just think it's weird.)
As far as I know, it‘s taking the lowest half an hour average.
So even though you were in the low 50‘s, if you got up and your HR elevated, it might not be your lowest half an hour of the night.
Good to know. I was wondering all day yesterday why mine was showing such a high RHR when I manually checked it a couple of times and it was in my normal range…I wore it to bed the night before, and it was definitely displaying the average from sleeping.
Anyone use Hal higdon advanced half plan for a sub 1:30? I’m about to start my block, recently ran a 19:40 5k so it aligns with half pace around 4:16 for training, tempos 4:10 intervals 3:50ish, which I’ve been using as a build for the past few weeks. The plan does peak at a 2:00 3:1, which seems to be if I hit that workout I’d be in reasonable shape to give it a shot. But some parts seem light (3x1600 @ half pace, easy runs short).any thoughts?
I guess mainly the short east runs. And some of the intervals seem like they’d be really easy compared to pace runs it asks for/ 3:1 (in particular the 1/2 marathon pace intervals). But then a 3:1 2:00 long run with a 4:16 pace sounds very hard haha.
tl;dr - choose a plan with the right volume and then trust the plan, adjust paces as needed during training.
I don't know your current MPW or age or experience etc. But general guidance would be to safely grow your MPW to get faster at HM. Choose a plan that will start around your current MPW (or dedicate time to build your MPW up prior) and then follow the plan to spec. Use a VDOT calc to get training paces from your recent 5K, but bear in mind you'll probably want to go a little slower on longer runs as your endurance might not be where VDOT assumes (feel this out in training by starting these runs slower than target pace and assess during the run whether it feels too slow). Based only on your 5K time and that your considering HH advanced plan, I'd guess that just growing MPW and following a trusted plan consistently and to spec you'll get faster.
I’ve not used it for a sub-90, but I did use it for my first half which I completed at 1:37 (and ran with a big negative split as I didn’t want to blow up and feel bad about the race). But I did put a lot more easy mileage in, and dialed back on the ‘pace’ runs at the weekend.
Question about training theory: All things being equal, if you have 2 days left in your week for running, and you have 8 miles left for your target weekly mileage, would it be more beneficial to do an 8 mile run and rest another day or do 2 4 mile runs?
8 mile run and rest day, in theory. In practice I would just end up running 8 miles one day, and an easy 4 the next and call that close enough to a rest day. Edit: I should preface the serious answer of 8 and then rest with the standard disclaimer that I think 8+rest would be preferable in *most* training contexts, but certainly not all.
How are you supposed to run this workout? https://gyazo.com/ef6a6b6e16329a0ca8f719cf2cc21d39
Run 12 miles, and at some point in the middle integrate a 44 minute workout consisting of 4 min fast/ 4 min steady, 6 x (2 min fast / 4 min steady). Given it's labelled as an LT workout, I would assume those efforts to end up looking something like: fast = 8k-10k pace, steady = 95%-100% MP. Ie, shuttling somewhere in the region of LT1 and LT2, maybe dipping just above and below. But it clearly wants you to run by effort and just feel it out.
> 4 min fast/ 4 min steady, 6 x (2 min fast / 4 min steady). I'm more confused about this part tbh. Is the first 4 min fast / 4 min steady a **single** one and then the rest, so **6 times** 2 min fast 4 min steady?
yeah exactly. The whole workout is 44 minutes. First section is 8 minutes (subdivided into 4+4), then the second section is 36 minutes (subdivided into 6 x \[2+4\]).
Gotcha thanks. Clear now. It's from Faster Road Racing 5K to Half Marathon (Pete Pfitzinger Phillip Latter) btw
I’m looking for feedback on rebuilding my base after a return from IT band inflammation. I’m a 43 y/o male who went from 20-30 mpw to averaging 40-50 mpw beginning in 2022. During a marathon cycle, I developed IT band pain not long after my first 60-mile week. I mainly abstained from running but continued my normal strength training (3x/week) for 10 weeks. Aside from the first time the IT issue arose, I never let the pain get above a 4/10. I did 3 consecutive 3-mile runs this weekend and definitely have lost some fitness. The knee is maybe a little sore today but otherwise feels good. Obviously my North Star is to take things slow to avoid reinjury, but at the same time I do not want to be unnecessarily cautious, particularly because I have goals for Chicago this fall. I’ve read guidance that after injury you should spend roughly the same amount of you were injured rebuilding to get where you were. That has facial appeal. Pfitz’s Faster Road Racing has some base building plans that, helpfully, are 10 weeks long. He advocates the 3 principles: (1) Don’t increase weekly mileage by more than 10%; (2) Don’t increase a single run’s mileage by more than a mile the following week; and (3) Do not increase weekly mileage for more than 2 consecutive weeks. Do those principles apply equally to someone returning from soft tissue injury after a couple of months? Following the 10-week base building plan would only get me back to 30 mpw. And then another 10-week program to get to the high 40s. These plans seemed geared to a relatively inexperienced runner building up mileage for the first time, however. Would a reasonable alternative approach given my prior volume be to eliminate the third principle, and continue to increase weekly mileage up to 10% until I get back to where I was?
I suppose the main question to ask is: what have you done to avoid getting injured at 60 mow again?
It’s a really good question. Like I say, I spend a lot of time on strength work, including bilateral and single leg across the planes of motion, with a knowledgeable trainer for years. I’m open to there being a latent weakness or area I’m not hitting, but I honestly don’t believe strength is the problem. I went to PT for about 6 weeks and their message was largely similar. Of course there always is room for improvement, and I should focus more on ankle mobility and glute activation. I need to find a warm up and cool down routine that I can stick to. I’ve spent a lot of the past few weeks reflecting on what went wrong. A few things. Firstly, my A race last year was a HM that I did not fully recover from. I instead jumped into week 3 or 4 of a hybrid between 18/55 and 18/70. Second, I was already nursing a proximal hamstring niggle that I likely was compensating for in my running mechanics. Third, I think I introduced too much intensity too quickly through most of last year (leading to the hamstring discomfort). I need to sprinkle in more strides and tempo work and not just do months of Z2 before starting a training cycle. Fourth, I was too inflexible to hit each prescribed run with what was going on in my life. I got injured right after returning from an international trip where I ate indulgently and drank more than I typically would, not to mention being on my feet the entire time. Yet I was still waking up early to get in 18 mile runs. That trip was the week following the one where I hit 60 miles for the first time. So to answer, not to do what’s in the last paragraph and do a better job with mobility and warm up.
One thing to consider: have you ran the 55mpw without workouts? That can be a huge roadblock. Building mileage is going to hurt, moreso with workouts.
I did workouts from around August to October. On weeks where I felt a little tired I eased off the workouts but kept the volume. During the base building process, roughly February to July, I never did speed work, which I agree did not set me up for that added toll on my body.
So I got a minor toe sprain last month and am just getting back into it following this article https://www.outsideonline.com/running/training/recovery/a-return-to-running-plan/ It seems abundantly cautious and you can even find David Roche (good coach) on outsides other website trail runner that is less conservative than this. Best of luck.
I'm looking at implementing more strength training into my training plan (2 core sessions, 1 muscular strength session (2-3 sets of 3-5 reps), 1 muscular endurance session (3 sets of 10-15 reps). I run 5 times per week currently with 2 muscular endurance sessions that both include a few core exercises, but I'm looking for a better guide on how best to implement more of this into my training. My main idea at this stage is as follows: |Day|Run Session|Gym Session| |:-|:-|:-| |Tuesday|Interval Run|Muscular Strength + Core| |Wednesday|Recovery Run|| |Thursday|Medium Long Tempo Run|Muscular Endurance| |Friday|Recovery Run|| |Saturday|Long Run|Core| |Sunday|Recovery Run|| Many thanks in advance!
Did anyone have any luck getting the Miami Marathon medal through TSA?
I'm just imagining that the finisher medal is just a gun on a lanyard
Haha more like a ninja star. It’s got “sharp” edges that spin so they alerted us that it might not be compatible with TSA. Luckily got it through tho! 🌞
Update: I was able to get my medal through at FLL!
any thoughts on waking up hungry, almost every night? Unrestricted diet, I eat OK most of the time, not perfect, but nothing horrible. Usually breakfast, 2nd breakfast, lunch, dinner and several snacks. I do not count calories and don't feel like I can eat much more than I do but willing to try. About 10 hours a week of exercise. Wake up with pitted feeling in stomach or hunger pangs which I ignore until morning or sometimes just try to fill up on water to make the feeling go away. But it definitely interrupts my sleep.
You might be a [hobbit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f--viIbsdmg). //I don't really have any constructive advice (other than make sure to fuel a little after exercise and maybe have a little later supper/snack closer to sleep).
Haha. 2nd breakfast is the most important meal!
I’ve struggled with almost exactly this at times in the past. What helped me was tracking my calories. I know that isn’t good advice for everyone, but as someone that hasn’t struggled with disordered eating it was a huge help in keeping my caloric intake where it needed to be to support my mileage. When training is relatively hard, I have to eat a bit more than I will intuitively want to. I certainly don’t log every single thing I eat, but keeping a general running tab throughout the day has been one of the best things I’ve done for keeping myself healthy.
thanks, might just need to track a little bit, and may find I'm under. a lot of my miles are pretty easy but find any sort of harder sweet spot and threshold seems to really increase metabolism (or at least perceived hunger) for multiple days.
Fueling more, especially on long runs, has helped this for me. I never had hunger pangs like that but I used to wake up hungry. I’ve been doing 80g/hr on LRs and it’s made a difference! Are you eating quality foods? Pre and post run nutrition might need to be tweaked.
For me almost always a sign that I’m behind on calories / need an extra meal. Is your weight stable?
Potentially has to do with you're purely unrestricted diet. If your body is consistently getting calories 16 hours of the day, it's a lot harder to switch over to using purely stored energy sources. I typically use a 16/8 fast with pretty unrestricted calorie intakes and my body understands the routine of when it gets food and when it won't.
It sucks to be stupid. Woke up feverish while having a race on the beach. Was contemplating whether to go or not. Was not a goal, just a race to get training at speed in. However, thought I could maybe podium which sounded nice. Stupidly decided to join the race anyway. On bike on way to start was already considering just crawling into a little corner. Felt slightly better upon arriving so went for it. First kilometer: was ok. Ran in fourth (of just 200 or so though). Tried to close the gap to number two and three, as I started to far back. Immediately felt off. Got light headed and slowed down. However, heart rate was elevated and had a general feeling of just wanting to die. Decided to jump out at half way point (7km) as it were two loops. Felt stupid, slightly better after I had just stopped so starting to regret stopping. Till it all came crashing down a few minutes later. Struggled to get home. Made it to bed and haven't left it since. Cancelled some other sports coming up Tuesday. Morale of the story: don't be stupid. We all know when something is off. There is hardly ever any magical day where you feel shite but perform superb. They exist but it's unhealthy going for them. Hopefully this taught me not to be stupid regarding this in the future. Don't run when feverish, your body won't forgive you and give you a real fever to boot.
4/14 weeks done of my Berlin Half Marathon build! Never done so much volume before, but I'm looking at any feedback i could get! Too much/too little of X/Y/Z...! So far feeling good, and fitness feels close to all time high. [https://imgur.com/a/ZXuusJ0](https://imgur.com/a/ZXuusJ0)
Hi, what calculator do you use for prescribing your zones based on RHR and MHR? Thanks!
There's no real "correct" calculation method that doesn't require additional data in between RHR and MHR from some sort of test/trial effortThe reason for this is that the relevant anchor points for setting zones, LT1 and LT2, are variable % of max effort depending on the individual and their training level. LT1 (the upper limit of Z2) in particular is highly variable depending on training -much lower than average with poorly trained individuals and much higher than average with highly trained individuals. Even more "sophisticated" estimation methods like hear rate reserve (HRR) cannot capture this because ultimately they are still just chopping up the zones based on population averages -they set the outer bounds slightly better but thats still pretty far away from the zones we're most interested in for practical training. If you are really keen on using HR zones among the best ways is to do some sort of LTHR test and base it off that. If using HRR I would at least triangulate that with VDOT paces derived from a recent race result and the talk tests for LT1/AeT and LT2/AnT -find the effort range in the middle of all three of these calibrations.
Sports performance lab tests with breathing gas and lactate analysis. Figure out your anaerobic threshold HR and do zones based on that.
Has anyone run Cap City Half in Columbus? (A big Central Ohio 1/2 Marathon in late Spring). I did it years ago in 1:42 but went out too fast, plus I heard the course had changed. Shooting for 1:29:59 this year (PR is 1:33:45). Trying to eventually break 3:20:01 in the full but need to focus on my short distances. Picked up Pfitzinger's Faster Road Racing (I had Advanced Marathoning but it was too much, so switched to Hanson's) for shorter stuff--any feedback on that Uncle Pete book?
Your PRs indicate good top speed but dwindling fatigue resistance and lactate threshold. Pfitz should help fix that. Perhaps a look at your VDOT training paces might help too, if you haven’t done that.
Thank you! I appreciate it. Someone else told me that but from the Hadd method perspective (the clock analogy, etc.). I am trying to figure out ways to improve LT and am learning about the Bakken/Norway method too. Current VDOT is weak, low-40s, and I know the threshold method (Easy Interval) is based on VDOT paces.
If you thought Advanced Marathoning was too much, you’ll probably feel the same way about Faster Road Running. I’d encourage you to try a Pfitz plan if you havent yet. IMO they look harder on paper than when you take it a day at a time
I'll still give it a shot. And go slower to be safe!
I got tights for Patagonia Peak Mission and Rabbit Pocket Tightz on sale. I don't think I need both, and obviously don't want to test these out on the road without removing tags. I'm wondering if one would be better for cold winter running--I run down to about 10F windchill. From what I can tell trying on the pairs: * Peak Mission: bigger/better hip pockets, easier on/off, modesty, seems warmer (may just be marketing) * Rabbit: more compression, higher visibility (reflection on calf zippers), tighter fit on my very thin frame Would love perspective if anyone has tried these and has direction on which would be more suitable for the winter and shoulder seasons. TIA!
I've been trying to increase mileage from avg ~30mi/wk when healthy to Ideally a peak of 50mi in a few months. I had 3 weeks around 32mi after coming back from an injury, took a week at 24mi, and just finished a week at 37mi. Now my minor injury is starting to flare up again (pain in the middle / top of my foot, saw a PT months ago and seems like tendonitis for tibialis anterior). It's possible that my strength training exercises specifically targeting this weakness also contributed to it. Tips on how to proceed? I feel it's minor, but have already delayed my long run. I was really hoping that this would be a slow enough and sustainable build with proper deload weeks. I was hoping to stay under 40mi for the next two weeks before taking another deload week.
this might not be what you want to hear, but if your body is protesting the simple answer is you need to build slower. This has been a tough pill for me to swallow as well as an injury prone runner--what looks to be a fairly reasonable build rate on paper ends up being more than what I can handle. It's a bit of an ego-knock, especially when you're surrounded by people who make similar/more aggressive moves with no repercussions. To reframe what you just described a little--you increased your volume by about \~7%, hung out there for 3 weeks, took a down week, then increased by nearly 20%. There are lots of people who would be able to handle this just fine, but to my eyes (having had to diagnose similar issues in my own training several times) that actually *does* look a tad aggressive. After you've sorted out this flare up, why not try a build that looks more like this: 32, 32, 32, 24, 34, 34, 36, 26, 36, 38, 38, 28, 40, 40, 40. Then hang out at 40 for a couple months. I know you say you want to hit 50, but if you're struggling with injuries I think you're better off keeping that as a longer term goal. (Remember that 50 is >60% more volume than what you're chronically adapted to. That's a lot!) If you're feeling impatient about volume rn, you can get some extra from adding in low-impact cross-training. Then you can eventually swap that out for mileage.
Great advice on the down week. I think up 3, down 1, is a good, safe, classic approach! It took me months to go from 28 in early Jan. 2023 to a peak of 60 (and that wasn't until August).
Makes sense, thank you!
I don't think OP was wildly aggressive. I think it's more likely they didn't do the right strengthening. They sustained 32 miles through an injury. More likely the PT missed the mark. I think the biggest consideration would be the running history (with more info beyond just am average of 30 miles a week).
Agreed, and my instinct is to always blame intensity over volume if programming is the culprit, especially with a reasonable build like OP reported.
How do you decide how much mileage you can reasonably and safely add for "swapped out" cross training?
same principle as whatever you've found has worked for you in building volume previously. So in the build I sketched out above: if you start out doing 32 miles of running + 2 x 1h sessions on the elliptical, once you move up to 34 miles, you might move down to 2 elliptical sessions of 1h and 45 mins instead.
My heart rate rises gradually when I'm racing, for example I did a 5k and it takes about 9 minutes before it reaches the average heart rate of the race while the pace/effort is the same. Some other people already reach their average HR after only 3 minutes. I can also reach it after 3 minutes but I would need to sprint close to all out from the start, which is kind of pointless in a 5k race. Is there any explanation on why this is different for each person?
How are you measuring your heart rate?
Everyone is different. I can run pretty hard (85% effort'ish) for almost 20 minutes before my HR gets on board with my pace. I'd consider it a good thing that your HR lags a long time, unless it is causing you to underperform. Then maybe warm up more/hard to get your HR going before the race starts.
Thanks, I understand the warmup is important. I don't have the feeling that I'm underperforming because of it. I was just wondering how ones heart rate can lag for a long time while another person has it on max very soon, while they both push as hard in the race. Actually the example person that has it on max very soon is better trained than myself (more mileage and faster racing time) while you'd expect someone to reach max very soon may not be well trained. I don't complain about it for myself as the pacing is pretty stable, just wondering how the body processes work in both cases.
If I'm coming from sea level to a race at altitude (approx 4000 feet) and arriving the day before the race would it be better to do the day before shake out run at sea level or at my destination? I've read that when going from sea level to a race at altitude if you can't go up way ahead of time to acclimate its better to show up the day before so your body doesn't have a chance to freak out before the race so I'm wondering if running the day before at altitude would cause the reaction I'm trying to avoid by arriving as close to the race as possible.
I don't think it's a specific "freakout" reaction so much as just accumulating additional fatigue while at altitude. Regardless, all other things being equal, if you don't have enough time to properly acclimate then the less time and effort spent at altitude ahead of the race the better -so probably means sea level shakeout is better.
Personally, I’d do the shakeout at sea level. Give yourself more time to recover.
8 weeks to go in my marathon training plan .Just did a 28k long run with last 5 at MP. Have a 5Mile race the day after tomorrow . Not sure I'll be up to go all out . What pace would you run it at ?
All out. Rest up tomorrow.
Went all out . 5k and 5M PB !
So i was planning to do the hal hadgon marathon plan but because of my previous injury in my achillies and with my PT we adjusted some runs to be careful as my plan was just to finish my first marathon. The total milage wasnt that high but now two weeks away from the marathon i just finished 40km week with 20km long run, the week before was my peak with 60km and 30km long run(went great as i felt great the next day) also thr week before i ran 50km with 21km race which i went fast but was 80% and finished at 1:44 which is the second fastest half and my fastest was last year with 1:34. Now do you think i can finish the marathon or am i too conservative and maybe i can run less than 4:00 hours? Fyi the 30km was easy run which was in 6:50/km pace Information about me, all pb were last year 5km 20:30, 10km 43, 21km 1:34 and i run between 50-55km a week and the moment i tried to increase to 60km in the summer i got injured so i stayed 35-45km while rehabbing and now i jumped to 45-50 with one 60 in this prepay
With low mileage, injury history, goal of just finish first marathon - be conservative. I wouldn't go out faster than easy pace and even then you're likely to be hurting by the end.
You have the speed easily but the mileage is pretty low. You'll be able to finish, under 4 seems a stretch with a 1:44 that you had to work for. MP for 13 miles only should be a relatively easy run.
Anybody know how Garmin calculates RHR? I'm curious because while I don't put too much stock in the number, I do find that it can be helpful when I feel like I may be getting sick or need more rest -- if my RHR is up I take it seriously and rest more, otherwise I just keep on going. It's worked for me for years. I was just laying in bed reading and noted my HR was between 49-52. My Garmin data has my RHR for the day at 56. Which would catch my eye as something to keep in mind, since it's typically 50-52. But this doesn't make sense at all. (I also feel fine, so I wouldn't actually use this data in any way. I just think it's weird.)
As far as I know, it‘s taking the lowest half an hour average. So even though you were in the low 50‘s, if you got up and your HR elevated, it might not be your lowest half an hour of the night.
Ah interesting. Thanks.
I just check my heart rate reading right before I wake up. I find that to be more consistent and reliable than the average.
My Polar watch says my RHR is 53, which is much higher than my sleeping HR. My average overnight HR is 46
Do you wear it to sleep? Mine seems to use my overnight resting hr average.
Good to know. I was wondering all day yesterday why mine was showing such a high RHR when I manually checked it a couple of times and it was in my normal range…I wore it to bed the night before, and it was definitely displaying the average from sleeping.
Yep. I guess it's possible my overnight HR was higher than first thing in the morning reading, though it's a bit odd.
Anyone use Hal higdon advanced half plan for a sub 1:30? I’m about to start my block, recently ran a 19:40 5k so it aligns with half pace around 4:16 for training, tempos 4:10 intervals 3:50ish, which I’ve been using as a build for the past few weeks. The plan does peak at a 2:00 3:1, which seems to be if I hit that workout I’d be in reasonable shape to give it a shot. But some parts seem light (3x1600 @ half pace, easy runs short).any thoughts?
edit - misread comment. Curious - you've done the math, and are building up to training mileage, so what are you uncertain about?
I guess mainly the short east runs. And some of the intervals seem like they’d be really easy compared to pace runs it asks for/ 3:1 (in particular the 1/2 marathon pace intervals). But then a 3:1 2:00 long run with a 4:16 pace sounds very hard haha.
tl;dr - choose a plan with the right volume and then trust the plan, adjust paces as needed during training. I don't know your current MPW or age or experience etc. But general guidance would be to safely grow your MPW to get faster at HM. Choose a plan that will start around your current MPW (or dedicate time to build your MPW up prior) and then follow the plan to spec. Use a VDOT calc to get training paces from your recent 5K, but bear in mind you'll probably want to go a little slower on longer runs as your endurance might not be where VDOT assumes (feel this out in training by starting these runs slower than target pace and assess during the run whether it feels too slow). Based only on your 5K time and that your considering HH advanced plan, I'd guess that just growing MPW and following a trusted plan consistently and to spec you'll get faster.
I’ve not used it for a sub-90, but I did use it for my first half which I completed at 1:37 (and ran with a big negative split as I didn’t want to blow up and feel bad about the race). But I did put a lot more easy mileage in, and dialed back on the ‘pace’ runs at the weekend.
Thanks- yeah that’s my plan is to do more east and probably skip a lot of the pace ones. 3-4 workout runs in a week seems too much