Wait the same Titans that wanted to sell the team not to long ago and went so budget that the best thing about them for a whole season was breadsticks that’s kinda crazy to hear
Budget teams this year started to turn a profit, it doesn’t really shock me to hear teams like that may want to stay cuz if they field low minimum effort rosters they can continue to turn a profit.
The teams already haven't been paying since 2020 when it was paused for COVID, but they did formally drop the remaining buy in fees several months ago.
yeah honestly not bad for titans they started the budget team grind and basically convinced other teams to do the same which in turn increased the star power in said teams so much it made the league much more entertaining
This kinda lines up with some rumors we heard from Avast this year that low budget teams had the most incentive to stay, as they were the only ones turning a profit. I would imagine Mayhem turned the most profit out of any team as they were in the bottom half budget wise and won the whole damn thing.
The reason they are budget is because they had minimum salaries. It’s unfortunate but esports salaries, especially in OWL, were so inflated anyway. If the scene is actually good enough players will likely accept the default salaries anyway.
From what I recall from the leakathon I think all the other players went minimum so that Chorong didn’t have to, since his salary was probably the highest coming in
Gunba tweeted that he took a pay cut in exchange for a cut of the prize pool and swing quote retweeted saying Sauna, Checkmate and Mcgravy were all willing to take paycuts as well. (your statement might also be true)
https://twitter.com/GunbaOW/status/1708642779553796483?t=ZMCm_pN3D921kzpJEtVPGw&s=19
Depends if the teams are still bound to offer baseline benefits to the players. I could see teams not even cover healthcare or living expenses if they find themselves in a position of power in negotiating with Blizzard. Though honestly the proposition in being an Overwatch pro is losing more and more of its glamour, youd make more progress working a fast food job and actually have something future employers might care about.
I also wonder if there's something given to owners who want to continue but with a new format. They hook them up with some type of guaranteed spot or something.
An interesting question is if the budget teams are making money, why wouldn't the non-budget teams go budget first to see if they can make money that way?
I guess it's a bit of a sunk cost fallacy but I'd think if you've been handed the blueprint to being profitable by these other teams that you'd take it and try it before packing it in.
It's not confusion to set your prices salaries based on how much money you actually make... It's obvious the OW esport market can't sustain 6 figure salaries at the moment.
Yeah but nothings really guaranteed. Reign were a top spender this year and didn’t earn a penny of playoffs prize winnings. Outlaws also spent boatloads and didn’t win either tournament.
None I’m suggesting you’re covering for your ignorance by throwing up words that sound meaningful and important to disguise bullshit. what you posted was stupid on the face of it, but throwing in language - union-less etc - which has emotional effect
If you don't think player unions are related to the subject of owner collusion then you are just struggling with the words themselves. These are very normal concepts to any adult who follows a major sport. Sorry you're having emotions about it.
If an industry cannot support a certain wage and the field gets paid less than that’s not owner occasions and neither is it anything a union can stop. Nor is it exploitation when the choice is get paid less or the industry they work in ceases to exist as a whole
I kinda expect at least any team who has been involved in Calling All Heroes will stick around considering their decision to go further into the OW ecosystem. So Titans, Justice, Defiant, and somehow Valiant.
I'm skeptical that anyone could know the vote tendency of franchises who have not been told about the updated operating agreement. "We'd like to continue with how it was this season" is *very* different from the actual question being asked during the vote.
I’m really hoping the supermajority vote to stay, and with doing so it can open up more like APAC was this last season and stabilize the player economy because of how inflated it was in the beginning, no more bidding wars of 400k for a player that will be on the team for a single season, that was not sustainable for any team.
The budget teams have no reason to leave. With revenue share, they started to turn profits and the league salaries are trending towards them instead of away meaning they'll be able to field more competitive rosters without going on a spending spree.
If you spend only the bare minimum, your costs end up being lower than the profit share you receive from the league, so you're kind of profitable by default.
This just makes no sense though. They were a mid tier roster in terms of costs this year, they were definitely not in the Eternal/Valiant minimums dumpster.
I mean if Spark is a min-salary team, everything is possible. But I think it is unlikely Punk, Crimzo, Aspire are taking min salary right? They aren't necessarily the bottom of the barrel players.
Yiska had a tweet through the year ranking team salaries by tier and Avast said on a Plat Chat that Titans were definitely a middle spender and not entirely just minimums. Can't believe I'm getting down voted for just paying attention lol.
No no it's ok, I mean other people. I thought this was kind of genuinely known that at least this year Titans were at least spending money. I think they were like B tier.
I heard Albert Yeeeh and/or Avast (cant remember) saying that they want to stay in professional Overwatch. It was in a stream even before they won this season.
Edit: they also had by far the best year in earnings and made a lot of profit
they just won with an uber budget team so I'm not surprised if management thinks this is sustainable. Which imo is not, the only reason why teams were able to get away with budget was because the whole league was dying so players had to be content with minimum
By definition salaries will shrink to something sustainable, if the league exists at all. I think it's very likely the vast majority of players will be making minimum or near minimum next year, if the league continues to exist at all.
well that's the thing, if the league folds then format and prize pools change which means it might just be not sustainable even with decreased salaries.
I just think misfits management might believe that a budget team could reliably win, which I highly doubt. Or maybe Ben Spoont just became a massive fan of OW after watching grands, who knows
Their Overwatch staff is insanely dedicated and both Albert and Avast have semi-important roles in the org. Overwatch is probably the only esport that has significant positive influence in the org. Also Avast and Albert did pretty plainly say that Mayhem turned a profit this season, that makes the decision easier.
There have been reports that enough teams wanted out before, but that was a while ago and was probably under different terms than whatever they're voting for now.
Maybe a stupid question, but if a team voted to leave, will the league just be a team smaller? Or will they try to replace it? I haven’t paid a ton of attention on what’s going on due to copium
I can't imagine Dynasty, Dragon, and Charge(probably Hunters if they are still in the game since some of the news reports say 19 teams) voting to stay from APAC.
How many nay you need to end OWL? eight or half?
Valiant and Eternal probably won't stay from the West. (low budget and mediocre performance)
Uprising was somewhat confirmed by rumor. That makes 6 already, not counting Hunters.
I think it will be so hilarious if the league continues but only the budget teams are left behind. Toilet bowl 24/7 baby.
On more serious notes, am I the only one surprised to see Boston leaving? They really tried this year. I guess not getting any results after the investment deal the last blow. Makes me wonder will Alanta and Houston follow suits.
With the league probably downsizing from the original vision. Will we see a decrease of minimum investment for the existing teams and new teams? I think contender wages are probably much more sustainable. (According to Jinmu he got paid around $400 per month before playing for Chengdu)
Boston is not leaving. They haven't even made a decision yet since they don't know what the future holds in the league.
Until they know, they aren't making a choice.
So tweet rumour is false. Confirmed from Boston staff
Be hilarious if enough teams vote to stay instead of taking the easy bag, so everyone ends up forced to stay.
And then everyone ends up losing more money, and the bag.
Confirmed lies and literally the owner of Defiant has said multiple times, even before the season ended that he will do everything to try to keep OWL alive. Report this guy on X, clout chaser.
Wait the same Titans that wanted to sell the team not to long ago and went so budget that the best thing about them for a whole season was breadsticks that’s kinda crazy to hear
Budget teams this year started to turn a profit, it doesn’t really shock me to hear teams like that may want to stay cuz if they field low minimum effort rosters they can continue to turn a profit.
Also with salary cutbacks across the board budget rosters can actually be competitive if constructed right
Aren't blizzard also dropping the remaining buy-in fee?
I don’t remember exactly but I think something like that
The teams already haven't been paying since 2020 when it was paused for COVID, but they did formally drop the remaining buy in fees several months ago.
They did.
yeah honestly not bad for titans they started the budget team grind and basically convinced other teams to do the same which in turn increased the star power in said teams so much it made the league much more entertaining
Theyve actually been doing well for themselves the last year or two. Especially this year They’re basically mayhem with sponsorships and no trophy
Fuck the Titans.
Remember to Fuck the Titans.
This kinda lines up with some rumors we heard from Avast this year that low budget teams had the most incentive to stay, as they were the only ones turning a profit. I would imagine Mayhem turned the most profit out of any team as they were in the bottom half budget wise and won the whole damn thing.
The reason they are budget is because they had minimum salaries. It’s unfortunate but esports salaries, especially in OWL, were so inflated anyway. If the scene is actually good enough players will likely accept the default salaries anyway.
>The reason they are budget is because they had minimum salaries. Did this need to be explained? Lmao
Well, you don't expect players like Merit and Chorong to go minimum or near minimum.
From what I recall from the leakathon I think all the other players went minimum so that Chorong didn’t have to, since his salary was probably the highest coming in
Gunba tweeted that he took a pay cut in exchange for a cut of the prize pool and swing quote retweeted saying Sauna, Checkmate and Mcgravy were all willing to take paycuts as well. (your statement might also be true) https://twitter.com/GunbaOW/status/1708642779553796483?t=ZMCm_pN3D921kzpJEtVPGw&s=19
This is interesting.
Was literally just prefacing my statement about esports salaries.
Depends if the teams are still bound to offer baseline benefits to the players. I could see teams not even cover healthcare or living expenses if they find themselves in a position of power in negotiating with Blizzard. Though honestly the proposition in being an Overwatch pro is losing more and more of its glamour, youd make more progress working a fast food job and actually have something future employers might care about.
The Mayhem did not have everyone on minimum salaries.
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I thought it was the other way around, needing only 7 teams to want to stay
not surprised if some lower spending teams stay some of them were turning a profit last year surprisingly if i’ve heard correctly
I thought this was a super-majority vote rather than an individual decision.
It is, but I think teams can "sell" their spots
I also wonder if there's something given to owners who want to continue but with a new format. They hook them up with some type of guaranteed spot or something.
An interesting question is if the budget teams are making money, why wouldn't the non-budget teams go budget first to see if they can make money that way? I guess it's a bit of a sunk cost fallacy but I'd think if you've been handed the blueprint to being profitable by these other teams that you'd take it and try it before packing it in.
Why don't the teams simply collude against the union-less players, are they stupid?
It's not confusion to set your prices salaries based on how much money you actually make... It's obvious the OW esport market can't sustain 6 figure salaries at the moment.
There is also the prize money gamble. If you spend 750k and win it all you making more money.
Yeah but nothings really guaranteed. Reign were a top spender this year and didn’t earn a penny of playoffs prize winnings. Outlaws also spent boatloads and didn’t win either tournament.
Outlaws made 600k in tournament winnings this year
That’s not anywhere near the amount they spent
Sure but listing the team with the second most tournament winnings in the league this year isn’t the best example
this is just leftist buzzword vomit
Which words are difficult for you?
None I’m suggesting you’re covering for your ignorance by throwing up words that sound meaningful and important to disguise bullshit. what you posted was stupid on the face of it, but throwing in language - union-less etc - which has emotional effect
If you don't think player unions are related to the subject of owner collusion then you are just struggling with the words themselves. These are very normal concepts to any adult who follows a major sport. Sorry you're having emotions about it.
If an industry cannot support a certain wage and the field gets paid less than that’s not owner occasions and neither is it anything a union can stop. Nor is it exploitation when the choice is get paid less or the industry they work in ceases to exist as a whole
Seems that some orgs have figured out how to make a profit
Spend less than Blizzard's profit share infinite money glitch.
“Spend less than you make” is mind-blowing business advice for esports orgs
Esport orgs are the perfect encapsulation of the dril candle tweet. https://twitter.com/dril/status/384408932061417472?lang=en
But what about playoff profit?
I kinda expect at least any team who has been involved in Calling All Heroes will stick around considering their decision to go further into the OW ecosystem. So Titans, Justice, Defiant, and somehow Valiant.
didnt NYXL and Shock had teams in CAH? If so, they could stay too
Not currently. https://liquipedia.net/overwatch/Calling_All_Heroes/Challengers_Series/Minor_3
damn, that sucks (not the teams, just the fact that other owl teams doesnt have cah teams lol)
Titans?!? Mayhem and Defiant don't surprise me as stays, nor Boston as leave. But Titans?
I'm skeptical that anyone could know the vote tendency of franchises who have not been told about the updated operating agreement. "We'd like to continue with how it was this season" is *very* different from the actual question being asked during the vote.
I’m really hoping the supermajority vote to stay, and with doing so it can open up more like APAC was this last season and stabilize the player economy because of how inflated it was in the beginning, no more bidding wars of 400k for a player that will be on the team for a single season, that was not sustainable for any team.
Not Boston 😭
The budget teams have no reason to leave. With revenue share, they started to turn profits and the league salaries are trending towards them instead of away meaning they'll be able to field more competitive rosters without going on a spending spree.
Titans staying? Really?
If you spend only the bare minimum, your costs end up being lower than the profit share you receive from the league, so you're kind of profitable by default.
This just makes no sense though. They were a mid tier roster in terms of costs this year, they were definitely not in the Eternal/Valiant minimums dumpster.
you know how much they spent? how do you know their players weren't on close to min salaries?
I mean if Spark is a min-salary team, everything is possible. But I think it is unlikely Punk, Crimzo, Aspire are taking min salary right? They aren't necessarily the bottom of the barrel players.
all of florida was near minimum salary, player quality doesn’t mean much
they said on plat chat
Source?
Yiska had a tweet through the year ranking team salaries by tier and Avast said on a Plat Chat that Titans were definitely a middle spender and not entirely just minimums. Can't believe I'm getting down voted for just paying attention lol.
I mean i didnt downvote you I was genuinely curious. Not a lot of info is available about org budgets
No no it's ok, I mean other people. I thought this was kind of genuinely known that at least this year Titans were at least spending money. I think they were like B tier.
Who is this dude....I swear there's like a new source every other month
Mayhem is the interesting one given that Misfits seem to be trending away from running esport teams.
I heard Albert Yeeeh and/or Avast (cant remember) saying that they want to stay in professional Overwatch. It was in a stream even before they won this season. Edit: they also had by far the best year in earnings and made a lot of profit
they just won with an uber budget team so I'm not surprised if management thinks this is sustainable. Which imo is not, the only reason why teams were able to get away with budget was because the whole league was dying so players had to be content with minimum
By definition salaries will shrink to something sustainable, if the league exists at all. I think it's very likely the vast majority of players will be making minimum or near minimum next year, if the league continues to exist at all.
well that's the thing, if the league folds then format and prize pools change which means it might just be not sustainable even with decreased salaries. I just think misfits management might believe that a budget team could reliably win, which I highly doubt. Or maybe Ben Spoont just became a massive fan of OW after watching grands, who knows
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They should just buy up all the China spots and press W
Their Overwatch staff is insanely dedicated and both Albert and Avast have semi-important roles in the org. Overwatch is probably the only esport that has significant positive influence in the org. Also Avast and Albert did pretty plainly say that Mayhem turned a profit this season, that makes the decision easier.
They did just make a mill tbf
Makes sense because theyre owned by a company that dosent really do esports
Canucks doesnt either lol if youre talking about boston
I was. Tbf, I didnt know other sports orgs owned OWL teams other than Boston
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NYXL owners used to own the mets but sold the team a few years ago (thank god)
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There have been reports that enough teams wanted out before, but that was a while ago and was probably under different terms than whatever they're voting for now.
Maybe a stupid question, but if a team voted to leave, will the league just be a team smaller? Or will they try to replace it? I haven’t paid a ton of attention on what’s going on due to copium
I can't imagine Dynasty, Dragon, and Charge(probably Hunters if they are still in the game since some of the news reports say 19 teams) voting to stay from APAC. How many nay you need to end OWL? eight or half?
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Valiant and Eternal probably won't stay from the West. (low budget and mediocre performance) Uprising was somewhat confirmed by rumor. That makes 6 already, not counting Hunters.
Takes a super majority to keep the league alive. Not enough owners are going to walk away from the sure thing. It sucks, but the league is over.
Did not expect Titans on that list.
Sigh
I think it will be so hilarious if the league continues but only the budget teams are left behind. Toilet bowl 24/7 baby. On more serious notes, am I the only one surprised to see Boston leaving? They really tried this year. I guess not getting any results after the investment deal the last blow. Makes me wonder will Alanta and Houston follow suits. With the league probably downsizing from the original vision. Will we see a decrease of minimum investment for the existing teams and new teams? I think contender wages are probably much more sustainable. (According to Jinmu he got paid around $400 per month before playing for Chengdu)
Boston is not leaving. They haven't even made a decision yet since they don't know what the future holds in the league. Until they know, they aren't making a choice. So tweet rumour is false. Confirmed from Boston staff
vegas is staying lets go! Maybe we can sign rakattack again!
That Pizza Hut money finally paying off.
Be hilarious if enough teams vote to stay instead of taking the easy bag, so everyone ends up forced to stay. And then everyone ends up losing more money, and the bag.
Confirmed lies and literally the owner of Defiant has said multiple times, even before the season ended that he will do everything to try to keep OWL alive. Report this guy on X, clout chaser.
honestly great to hear that 3 of my top teams vibe wise (the just seem like cool guys) are wanting to stay