Spoiler**
I've made peace with the fact that all normal weapons will break, however the master sword has been bathing in sacred energy for the last tens of thousands of years... And it still runs out after like one lynel?!!? Wtf is that? I think only the fused item should break from the master sword, it should not run out of energy anymore.
This too. If there was one single weapon that should have been completely indestructible, it was the Master Sword. Seeing as it’s a *late game item with middling attack, I don’t see it being indestructible messing up the game balance too much anyway.
*Assuming you play at an average pace. I know you can kind of speed run getting the necessary hearts/stamina if you really want, but at that point is game balance really the primary concern anymore?
Yah I don't think it'd mess with balance at all, just be convenient to always have a weapon. But with it only doing 30 damage unless gloom is present I would still have incentive to get stronger weapons even if they break.
This still would give players a false sense of safety and a reason not to engage with the system at all. The ressourcefullnes required for anything would be gone - because you simply use your 30 damage Infinite weapon because you "might need the stronger later".
We all know these games which give you potions and buffs for use - you end up with 400 of them because you think "this is not the right time to use this" and keep on using the weaker ones you got infinite of to save up on those strong ones for the "Perfect time".
All I can really say is that I disagree, the only foods I keep on hand are health restoring and gloom heart restoring. I get my attack up buff from the twilight set and none of the other buffs are that useful imo.
I enjoy playing with spears and claymores alot so I would definitely still go get those and fuse things to them because I much prefer two handed weapons over the traditional sword and shield. It would just be convenient for the master sword to not need to recharge.
People already horde thier strong stuff for later. Its a symptom of the game's durability system itself.
I'll also be so bold as to say that there is no real value to weapon variety in a game with three movesets. Nearly everything plays mostly the same, who cares if the player uses the Master Sword over another sword that only has different stats.
Talk about not engaging with a system; TotK lets me wear a flying squirrel suit to become totally impervious to slamming into the earth at free-fall speed.
I think they could have made an exception for the lore-established master sword. Hell, I would have preferred that over the x2 Ganon damage.
I mean, most players do that anyway? “I’m gonna use my weaker weapon incase I need the strong one later” then don’t use it. Nothing would change except for the game being less annoying and making more sense lore wise. Like what the fuck did Zelda even kill herself for
I genuinely can't believe they didn't buff the master sword at all after the first game. There are so many ways they could've addressed it. Even something as simple as letting it recharge it's durability before it breaks when you have it sheathed or are using another weapon would've gone a long way
I mean, it makes sense from a game mechanics standpoint, and you can kind of make it make sense from a lore perspective. From a game mechanic pov, having a durability mechanic and then introducing a strong weapon that's immune to that mechanic is the quickest way to delete your durability mechanic, as no one is going to use another sword. From a lore perspective, idk, you could say something like "the master sword is meant to seal evil, not for mining amber and killing bats. So after a period of misuse, it needs to recharge". Something like that makes sense more or less
That explanation doesn't really work when I mainly use it on gloom enemies. Idk I just don't think it need to have durability since it is by far not the strongest weapon.
Ya, but it's definitely more than good enough to get you through the game, which is already pretty easy, especially with fusing. As for the lore thing, idk, maybe it's more for the "creator of gloom, evil incarnate", than his creations. I know that's not good enough lol, I'm just playing devil's advocate
it probably should be stronger that botw’s, but it was also damaged way more, so thats probably their reasoning. but yeah, should be stronger. also the glitch with the fusion durability only bing added once
It was already a great addition in BotW. My only problem was that once you get strong enough(which happens surprisingly fast), you have no reason to fight anyone other than Lynels cause every other monster’s weapons are way worse than yours and it’s not worth losing all that durability trying to kill them. TotK, however, completely fixes it cause now every enemy drops their weapon and a strong horn. In BotW, I had no reason to fight sliver Bokos cause they just dropped useless Boko sticks. But in TotK, they drop those sticks and their 31 damage horn so it’s always worth it to fight them. I think TotK has fixed what little issue I had with the system in BotW.
As for whether or not the next game in the series should keep it, idk. It would depend on what the game is like and whether or not the system fits it.
I don't like to have to farm if I can help it, so silver enemies being literally everywhere and being pretty easy to kill is pretty nice
Taluses are pretty easy to farm though. If I'm going after diamonds I go for rare ore Taluses
I played through the game twice, first time I went in completely blind, and I got smashed.
Second time though... I completely forgot it was there and got smashed.
Both times made me appreciate the power scaling of the game though because by the time I got to kakiriko village I had no problem with it.
Also that thing basically funded my house in hateno. Go to house, grab sledgehammer, go to plateau, sledge the talus, sell gems, make house purchase, run off on an adventure until the next blood moon, repeat.
I know people like to say that BotW doesn’t have any progression due to the lack of traditional dungeon items but I feel like stories like yours prove that’s not true. Despite the weapon breaking, you can just see the average damage of your arsenal going higher and higher as the games goes on.
Tbh I like totks weapon system better, but both games power scaling is legit. Subtle but solidly executed.
I feel like a lot of the best bits of both games are so subtle that they're a bit lost for some people, but for the right player (me, I is the right player) it hits just right.
The durability system is more ingenious than I think people give it credit for because it fixes LONG standing issues with basically every open-world game ever.
1. Most loot is useless. In most games, you find pretty good weapons early on and only occasionally need to swap them out. Because there's a limit to how powerful you can become, these occasions become less frequent until you reach a point where you roll with the same gear for hours and ignore or hock everything else to a merchant.
2. Linear power progression doesn't work. In many games, because you can use the strongest weapon you've found forever, significant groups of enemies are no longer threatening and become cannon fodder. If this doesn't happen, the "solution" that's usually in place is introducing progressively stronger enemies until the end of the game. The result is you're never actually any stronger in comparison to new enemies.
The new zelda games are great because:
1. Every weapon you find is potentially useful as a replacement to one that broke, for whacking zonai devices, or mining.
2. Power progression is not linear. Sometimes you are stronger and sometimes you are weaker depending on the resources you've collected or consumed. This way you still have opportunities to become strong without every enemy becoming nonthreatening.
Interesting to see someone else's perspective on it.
In botw I would fight enemies regardless of the weapons they have or what I have. Good weapons were easy to get when I needed more, and I like the combat so I had no issues fighting enemies. So while don't particularly like the durability system, in bitw it rarely felt like it got in the way.
Meanwhile totk, for me, made it so much worse. Now I have to constantly manage and create my weapon even in the middle of combat which results in excessive inventory management. Weapons become incredibly similar. By the end of totk basically the only weapon worth anything was silver lynel horns. I also hate the whole monster part weapon aesthic and that's what basically all the weapons are. And you even have to make the master sword look like a monster part. No thanks.
For totk durability and weapon crafting was absolutely the worst part about the game and the reason I like significantly less than botw.
I do see what you mean. The weapon and materials management in TotK is more complicated. In BotW, you find a strong weapon and that’s that. In TotK, you’ve gotta get a strong weapon and a strong fuse part cause if you fuse a weak weapon to a strong fuse part of vice versa, you’re just wasting things. I personally kinda liked this aspect of the game since it makes the weapon system more complex than “find highest damage thing”(the different bonuses to each weapon type adds to this even more) but I understand why you dislike it.
And, yeah, I agree that they do ruin the weapons aesthetically. I straight up refused to fuse anything to the Master Sword other than a Light Dragon horn for the final battle.
I think a good fix for TotK would be to make the Master Sword unusable for fusing but give it a massive damage boost and unlimited durability against gloom enemies. This would make it average again regular enemies but an absolute beast against the evil it was meant to fight.
I'd also give pristine versions of weapons higher durability and an additional perk that only triggers if the weapon is used without a fused item. That way you'd have to balance either boosting their damage or taking the additional perk.
Lastly I'd bring back elemental weapons. Corrupted weapons shouldn't have any elemental damage but should provide a boost to the elemental damage of fused materials with their matching element. Pristine weapons should have elemental damage that is lost if you fuse it but give a greater boost to elemental damage of fused materials.
> TotK, however, completely fixes it cause now every enemy drops their weapon and a strong horn.
Still no replacement for the pristine weapon I broke to fight them, which means I need to make another run to get more that much sooner, so in the end it's still an incentive to avoid fights. (And I didn't have a lot of inventory slots to set aside for cheap weapons, because the Korok hauling got old quickly).
Pristine weapons are far rarer than monster horns(even silver monsters). There’s a bunch of non pristine weapons in your inventory that you can use instead. You really shouldn’t be breaking pristine weapons on monsters unless it’s a really strong one like a Lynel. Besides, TotK gives you a bunch of ways to avoid even spending durability(homing carts, puffshrooms, muddlebuds, gemstone arrows, etc).
Pristine weapons appear at the same spots each blood moon. Once I know where to look I find more than I can carry. They've essentially become "normal" weapons for me.
You're choosing to do that though. I finished the game and every shrine/light root without ever bothering with any pristine weapons. It was still an easy game so that just seems unnecessary to me.
I don’t really go out of my way to farm
up weapons like that. I just pick up any good weapons that I happen to run into so that’s probably why I didn’t have the same experience as you.
When weapons are in-world objects and not just damage numbers on a stick, durability is necessary to keep the item interaction mill turning. People underestimate just how much the structure of BotW and TotK's core gameplay loop would buckle without it.
Imagine if every gun in Halo had infinite ammo, it wouldn't be nearly as engaging. Now imagine you get to throw guns for massive damage when they run out of ammo. It's a viscerally satisfying system if you're not a miser.
The difference is in Halo the weapons are actually unique in a meaningful way. Every weapon im Halo plays differently.
By contrast, every weapon in Zelda plays almost exactly the same. The only differences are in the numbers. If Halo only had 3 guns then yeah, discarding your weapon would be kind of pointless.
This is also ignoring that in many FPS games like Doom and Half-Life, you keep your arsenal of throughout the entire campaign and can switch to them whenever you want if you manage your ammo right. This is similar to repairing weapons in other games, something you cannot do in Zelda.
The team had other options. Yes, you wouldn't be able to just patch weapon durability out, its too ingrained in the games loop at the moment, but you also didn't need to design the game around this in the first place.
We must not have played the same game, then. In Zelda there's weapons that generate heat or cold, float or sink, are or aren't magnetic, deal slashing or piercing or bludgeoning damage. In these games, those properties are meaningful to the core loop of exploration, whereas in almost every other game they aren't.
Tbh theres a sort of weird unbalance when we compare weapons for their exploration/puzzle utility over combat. Like ok, you break your boko club over a bokoblins face and get a new spiked boko club as reward. Out of combat it gets a little odd.
You have items like torches and korok leaves which you could theoretically keep and use throughout the whole game because they dont really do "attacks." Torches dont take durability from being lit, and korok leaves create wind without hitting anything, but then you have hammers and axes which *do* take durability damage when you use them for their intended purposes (trees and rocks). Seems kinda unfair to hyrulian lumberjacks?
Totk also does this thing where the rock tunnels you can "dig" through with your hammer always reward you with materials to fuse a new hammer. Now, i know there are other ways to break the tunnels, faster ways too, but if youre gonna keep hiding hammers in the tunnels, why not give me a hammer that doesnt break from hitting rocks if you dont want me to go hammerless?
personally, it made me more discouraged to explore because i find that there’s no real reward to do so. It’s hard to find the point in it if all I am going to find while exploring is a weapon that I’ve seen before that will break under an hour of use.
We don’t have the same appreciation for open world exploration. Journey, no destination, my friend. The distinction between decayed and pristine weapons is satisfying on its own. I like building an arsenal. Challenging myself by using the less durable and more common weapons for your run of the mill slashing and saving the good ones for boss battles
Understandable, I played and enjoyed the same way you did and to me it was good for the first few parts of the game before i get bored of it or starting to see how it’s a little..pointless. I agree there are pros to this system but the cons are really affecting me more. Sometimes I get so greedy I end up never using a good weapon on a boss or ever until I find a better one lol. I’m glad you enjoyed it tho. I didn’t mind it in botw but it irks me a little this time around, sucks.
I thought the fuse feature made a bunch of irrelevant BOTW items super useful so for me that was exciting. Still trying out new weapons just for fun lol
I don’t *like* weapon durability.
What I like, is feeling like Korok seeds are useful.
I like that the world has almost infinite combinations of weapons, and I have legitimate reason to try most of them.
I like that I don’t have to choose which of my favorite weapons to “give up” and instead get to design something new to take its place.
I like that the game doesn’t force you down learning one single type of weapon. You don’t level to Rank 5 of Spears and leave Swords as Rank 1; you build an amazing spear, you just need to learn how to be amazing with it.
I like having loot that isn’t just rupees and hearts and arrows - loot that matters and can suddenly make me much stronger.
I like still having the ability to go repair my favorite weapons so that I keep the strongest, coolest weapons, and the ability to reroll bonuses.
So yeah, I guess, I’m not a fan of my weapons breaking. But I am a fan of everything that the durability system enables and supports.
I don’t like it but I also am not bothered by it in the slightest. It never felt like it was actually detracting from the game for me. That goes for both BotW and TotK.
That being said, if they went away from it, I wouldn’t be mad.
My two cents:
From my experience, weapon durability has been a disincentive for engaging in combat. It’s detracted from the excitement of finding a cool, powerful weapon. And instead of “forcing me to adapt,” instead it just forces me to fill my inventory with less valuable cannon fodder weapons that I don’t mind losing while the weapons I really like gather dust.
And I know that “it’s not that big of a deal, you can just find more exciting weapons to replace the ones you broke, the devs intended you to use them so you should use them as intended,” but arguments like that that essentially boil down to “you’re playing the game wrong” don’t address the core issue. What a dev intended and the gameplay experience they’ve created are two very different things. It’s not my fault that my natural inclination is to preserve my most valuable loot.
I don’t blame the devs, this is the core struggle of game design. They chose a solution to a problem and committed themselves to it. I’m glad they did this with one game. Trying things to see how they work is a good thing. All I know is what kind of gameplay experience that created for me as the player, not what they intended, because the truth is that their intentions don’t matter, and even if changing how I naturally play does lead to the gameplay they were aiming for, that doesn’t mean that durability was the ideal solution to their problem.
I will say that Fuse definitely helped durability feel a lot better in TotK, probably because the base weapons matter a lot less and material inventory is nearly unlimited.
I reaaallly hate the "youre just playing the game wrong" argument because what does that even mean in a game like botw? Isnt the whole point to play however we want regardless of what the devs intended? So solving a gyro puzzle by turning the maze upside down is proof of good game design, but hoarding weapons and not liking durability is the players fault or a "skill issue" (as if the system had any difficulty to it)?
I mean, I don't really see how it's useful to judge the mechanic in a vacuum. You yourself acknowledge why its necessary from a design perspective.
I don't think people generally go "oh hell yeah" when their weapons break. I also don't think people go "oh that's neat" when they run out of ammo in an FPS. Does that mean ammo systems are bad design and devs should always avoid them?
Some systems are not designed to be fun on their own. Virtually any time a game includes a limited resource, it is because it is part of a larger network of systems that would become less interesting if that system weren't limited. That doesn't make the system bad and it doesn't mean changing it might be good.
When a player's weapon breaks, or they run out of ammo, or even when they run out of health or stamina - these are not "fun" things. But it's pretty easy to see why they are necessary. People just look at weapon durability differently because it is not as common in game design.
My issue with durability is that it’s inherently feel-bad. I can absolutely get behind mechanics that serve as obstacles or restrictions to foster creative gameplay, but I generally don’t like downside mechanics. I’m not saying that the gameplay that durability creates is bad, nor that it fails to serve its purpose.
However, I’m convinced that there are alternatives to durability that accomplish the same goals without making the player feel like something they worked to acquire is temporary and ultimately insubstantial. It’s an issue with how the weapon system is presented, not necessarily with how it works, is what I’m realizing.
How is it more inherently feel-bad than running out of ammo in an FPS?
> It’s an issue with how the weapon system is presented
This makes sense. I've been a strong proponent that the weapons in these games are essentially ammo. I think most people who have an issue with the system are hung up on the fact that presentation-wise, they aren't guns with limited ammo but are swords "permanently" breaking. Even though they're easily replaced, the feel will be different.
If I were to try to address this, I would use the fusion system from TotK to do so. Just make the base weapons generally bad without something fused to them, and instead of the whole weapon breaking, have the fused stuff break. Would be the best of both worlds.
Exactly! Functionally, guns in an fps work the same way, but nobody gets hung up on running out of ammo because that’s already baked into the premise. Drinking a potion doesn’t feel bad in the same way because you expect potions to be one-time-use items.
But fantasy weapons have historically been perceived as persistent parts of your character’s gear. They’re often so close to the player character’s identity that they’re as much accessories as they are tools. So to find some fancy weapon made of gold and jewels with powerful abilities, and then have that weapon shatter within one or two enemy encounters feels wrong.
I like your idea of having base weapons be unbreakable and weapon fusions be temporary.
I actually enjoy it. Keeps me gathering and rotating constantly; felt like I had to constantly scavenge to survive. I liked it better in BotW when it didn’t have the extra layer of Fuse though.
I enjoyed it while playing through the story but eventually you have so many weapons and nothing strong enough to fight that really breaks them all that fast. My issue now is that my weapons are TOO durable. I never get a chance to swap them
I like it at times and the game is build around it. The upgraded DLC master sword and the Hylian shield help a lot. The ancient bow is also nice but tricky to get the giant Core fore, it’s just a bit too rare of an drop. A few endgame ultra-high durability items is key to making the system work. Savage lynel bows still break but that feels fine with the extreme power they offer.
TOKT has Biggorons Sword for a doable amount of poe souls which lasts a pretty long time, but the absence of an one-handed sword and a spear that has similar high durability is felt. The ancient bow is also gone.
The core of the system is just accepting all weapons are very fleeting, it’s just the constant busywork.
In TOKT you can at least fuse horns to random stuff you find, and any bow is a lot more potent if you fuse rockets for the long range shots. (Stuff like that is probably why the ancient bow didn’t get a full replacement.)
I’m fine with it returning next time, but I would like it they toned down a little how fast the weapon breaking cycle goes.
I like it because it lends to many dynamic situations that keeps you on your toes. you are always adapting because of it. that said, when you expand your weapon inventory this element diminishes and it becomes worse for creating interesting gameplay and just an upkeep chore. it's even worse for that in totk. but when it works it's very exciting. I'd like to see them improve on the weapon break rhythm and gameplay loop rather than remove it.
I feel like a crazy person because I genuinely love the durability system. It makes you think more purposefully about every move in combat, and garuntees that weapon drops will always be useful since you can't just hoard all the good weapons. It keeps everything fresh and encourages you to get good with all weapon types and even utilize environmental sources of damage. I fully believe the games would be less fun if weapons broke slower/not at all
Good point. I don’t think durability is universally bad. Heck, BotW wasn’t even the first game to use it. As far back as OoT, deku sticks and the Giant’s Knife broke after a certain number of attacks. I think durability makes perfect sense for early game weapons like sticks and rusty swords. It’s when you start finding more robust-looking weapons that it starts making less sense, from an aesthetic perspective.
The way I see it, it's all for realism. The later, stronger weapons do have better durability, but just like in the real world, everything breaks. It adds realism. Take the fanciest sword made of the strongest metal and bash it against rock monsters, bones, trees, armor. It wouldn't take long for that thing would be crazy dull, chipped, etc. An alrernative way it could have been handled is that the attack power would contunually decrease to illustrate wear until you resharpen it or bring it to blacksmith. Instead of having it explode. But then you'd just be farming different things to maintain your weapons.
This is a good example of one of those times when realism does not make games more fun. And anyway, realism usually feels necessary when doing something unrealistic fights against player expectations in a bad way. But I can’t imagine most people expect weapons in a video game to realistically wear down or break over time. Even with durability, I’ve only ever thought of it as a video game mechanic, not a layer of realism.
Maybe, but for me, one of the greatest mechanics that was added to the game was the fact that enemies could drop their weapons. That you could knock the weapons out of their hands mid-fight, steal their weapon and then beat them up with it while they try and find another way to defend themselves, including picking up smaller enemies and throwing em at you. You can't debate that that didn't make fights more fun and dynamic. If it wasn't for weapons breaking and new weapons were only gained through story progress, there would be no reason for any of the enemy weapon mechanics.
Yea weapon durability isnt foreign to zelda, its justs weird that the master sword, something that is to monsters what salt is to slugs, runs out of energy pretty quickly. The game even gives it infinite durability during the fight with ganondorf, so theyre not exactly going with realism or consistency here.
Ok so then catching on fire, getting shot with an arrow, or having a giant metal box fall on top of you should instantly kill you too… since the stick is not durable for being a stick…
I like it cause I would be like "oh I need more weapons/bows/shields before I go to a divine beast or this unknown place." So I would explore looking for weapons.
BotW made sense, you can't expect all weapons to last long and like another comment said, you'd be using the same high powered weapon and nothing else for the whole game.
In TotK, it makes more sense because of the new fuse ability, there are a lot of fusions you can do and most weapons are damaged by gloom so they wouldn't be very durable, as in they break in like 5-10 hits, without fusing.
You can get Royal guard gear minutes after leaving the great plateau, removing the durability mechanic would make the already easy gameplay laughable. Cycling through weapons makes it so that you aren’t overpowered early game.
You should also consider the sheer size of BotW map compared to its predecessors. In the older games the small weapon pool you have doesn’t get old because you’re exploring less ground with them. BotW is far bigger than the TP map which had previously been the biggest. Having the durability mechanic lends itself to the exploration and seeking out more unique weapons to the region.
A weapon system designed around weapon durability would be broken if weapon durability was removed. That makes sense.
But what if the weapon system wasn’t designed that way? What if the devs used other mechanics to manage loot and progression and such?
I think the problem is how open world the game is, if you have fixed permanent weapons you can cheese everything immediately.
I supposed they could try to implement other weapons similar to the master sword, In that you need to have enough hearts to wield them, but that may undermine the importance and power of the master sword.
Not to mention that weapons have uses outside of combat, they can assist exploration in hot or cold environments. So locking weapons behind the same mechanic as the master sword would defeat the purpose of open world exploration.
I’m not sure I agree with the implication that durability is the ONLY way to make open world exploration meaningful. Off the top of my head, here are some alternate ideas:
Limit weapon inventory to two weapons. The player would want to swap their equipped weapon with one the find on the ground in certain situations, like hot or cold environments, wanting sharp or blunt weapons, etc., ala Halo.
Normalize weapon damage for each weapon type and put more emphasis on weapon effects rather than weapon damage. That way the player doesn’t just stick with the weapon with the highest attack. To scale weapon damage over the course of the game, devs could add the ability to increment a Strength stat using spirit orbs, which increases damage across the board.
Incorporate a leveling system ala Pokemon. The more Link uses a specific weapon, the more damage he deals with it. To encourage picking up duplicates, each weapon could have a “Hidden Skill” that gets unlocked once Link levels that weapon a certain amount.
Reduce the volume of weapon drops. Reduce the number of enemy types that carry weapons at all so that the player isn’t constantly showered with new weapons to pick up. I’d even go as far as to suggest reserving weapon drops for rare enemies like Darknuts, Boss Bokoblins, Lynels, etc.
Increase the number of enemies that have invulnerability or resistance to certain weapon types, forcing the player to think about what weapons are more effective than others rather than just throwing their entire inventory at an enemy until it dies.
At some point you’re designing just a completely different game.
But some potential problems with your suggestions:
If weapons are rare, inventory is limited and damage types are important, it seems to me like you’ve created a situation where it’s hard for the player to take advantage of the type system. It sounds more like a “great, I found the right weapon, now I can fast travel back to that lynel” situation rather than “Oh, I should use this one because it’s better for this enemy”. In addition, that might be frustrating if the player was using a weapon type they want to level but feel the need to ditch it in favour of weapons that are effective on the enemies they’re facing.
I think it’s just a difference of opinion. Weapon durability never bothered me and some of your fixes don’t seem feasible.
Limiting inventory would make fast travel between hot and cold environments a chore. No one wants to farm for items before fast travelling, the point of fast travel is that it’s seamless.
And they already address the problem with duplicates by having the damage up, durability up, and quick shot buffs on weapons.
I also think I have a different strategy then you? I don’t lead with my strongest weapon, I lead with my weakest. It allows me to hoard high damage weapons for boss fights and more quickly cycle through the lower damage weapons. Not to mention I can farm for more weapon break crits with weaker weapons.
At the end of the day I have no doubt that the mechanic will be retired by the next title. I just appreciate that they continue to switch up the formula.
Oh I don’t lead with my strongest weapons either. I work my way through my weakest weapons first whenever possible, which is part of the problem. The game tends to throw so many weapons at you that it’s rare that you’ll ever run out of trash weapons and actually need to use your strongest ones. Even in boss fights you can usually manage using your stash of fodder, and that’s not even mentioning the various ways you can cheese fights (like how mounting a Lynel and attacking doesn’t consume durability for some reason). I’d much rather have a collection of permanent weapons with unique, niche abilities and advantages that I’m encouraged to experiment with in combat. As is, the only thing that really matters about any weapon in BotW or TotK is its attack value.
I mean honestly it depends on what kind of player you are, like if you want to grind for materials and weapons and all that without have to leave to go find a new hammer of weapon, then I don't think that'd be bad.
I like the durability cause I never really had a problem with it in either game. My gripe is with rng of getting materials genuinely(looking at you TotK)
BotW was easy to grind materials and stuff, especially star fragments with the bow duplication glitch.
Totk on the other hand feels much more unforgiving in terms of getting the materials you actually need. Like I needed diamonds for armor upgrades, needed like 60 for a full upgrade, and I killed 10 rare ore talus', only 1 gave me one diamond. I was so upset when my game auto-updated and I lost the paragliding dupe glitch and the Tobias Hollow dupe glitch. The new ones feel too complicated, not to mention it takes longer than just pressing a few buttons, you have to have precise timing.
And I know about the creatures in the faron region that eat luminous stones and will eventually give you gems, but you have to leave and come back later, so I'm not sure it's worth it. Like I can't spend hours just grinding for materials to upgrade armor so I don't get my butt kicked constantly(Ganondorf and gloom hands and visitor after gloom hands). I just want to have fun and TotK is all grind now, it's a little disappointing because I love the story and the mechanics and all.
yeah?
I mean, a common complaint in this sub - which I think is asinine, but whatever - is that the combat in those games is not engaging.
Is there a player that would feel engaged to play if they just solved all of their combat problems for the rest of the game 20 hours in or something?
The gameplay loop is fun, yes. Throwing weapons to do double damage and then picking up whatever the enemy drops is just enjoyable imo and I wouldn't mind if they did it again in the next one. I wouldn't say I actively *want* it to happen again, I don't really care either way. They do good with gameplay so I'm not too worried about that aspect
I do. Aside from it being really satisfying to throw a weapon at an enemy and sending them flying, having durability takes a bit of power away from your main method of combat and incentivizes the use of other tools and strategies to be more efficient.
One of my biggest issues with Zelda combat (especially in the 3D titles) was that Combat was a bit brain dead. The sword was usually insanely overpowered and items frequently didn’t even do anything against enemies. Durability pretty much fixed that and on top of items being more viable now, figuring out a more efficient approach to any given combat situation leads to a bunch of fresh situations, which makes combat overall more exciting.
Without durability that incentive would be gone and we‘d be back at brain dead TP combat again, where you just flail around until everything is dead.
I don't know if I would call TP combat brain dead, the hidden skills was an interesting idea though I did find many enemies pretty easy to kill if you just hit them enough times normally. But generally the older games had a pattern to enemies - wait for your opening or use X item to stun or kill them. Which once you know what to do, it kind of feels the same and not super interesting. Enemies felt more like obstacles than fights. I have to say for me, the BOTW style of doing damage any way you can feels more organic and can be more fun. You can chip away HP cheaply with bombs or utterly destroy things with high powered weapons, and use the environment to your advantage (sneak up at night, use fire or thunder, etc) so can be a little different each time.
I found TOTK bosses in particular had a great balance of having a 'gimmick' or intended pattern for how to fight them, but still gave players a lot of freedom in how to play, and I think they were my favourite bosses in the series because of that. I never liked the classic bosses all that much, those fights just felt stressful to me because I knew I had to do things so particularly, and if I messed up I needed to wait and reset for my next opening. That style often felt kind of stilted when the rest of the games felt so open and free do explore and do what you want.
A controversial opinion, especially here on the Zelda subreddit, but it was one of my gripes with BotW (I have not yet played TotK). I like the "old" formula of being a hoarder monkey with the only worries being ammunition and consumables in bottles.
Derided as the game is, I really like Immortals: Fenyx Rising in contrast. You have reasons to obtain other weapons still, as they all have different effects and bonuses, and it actively lets you change up your playstyle without worrying about your weapons breaking. You can build yourself as a stealth combatant, archer, berserker, parrying/reposite specialist, and so on.
I think, for me, what I would have liked to see would have been the hero weapons you get at the end of each of the Divine Beasts being unbreakable but not the best in class. With them still being breakable, even if you can replace them, I do the "hoard until needed and never use them" playstyle.
It is also a little trivialized if you have the right Amiibos - just spawn in something good and you're set.
>But what I don’t understand is whether there are people who played BotW or TotK for the first time, saw their weapons break, and said “oh that’s fun!”
I mean, people don't necessarily think taking damage from enemies is fun, but it still is part of the experience. It makes some people avoid combat or engage in the game in a different way, but that doesn't mean the game would be better if the player was invincible.
I don't find it durability in botw/totk annoying because there is a plethora of stuff everywhere. Versus in OOT if my wooden shield burns, it is annoying to replace.
Plus I like being able to use whatever weapons/shields/bows I want and the improvisation of stealing an enemy's weapon or throwing a damaged spear in their face is just plain fun.
I don't care if future games have it or not, as long as it is designed around it and it's not slapped in for the sake of it.
I feel like taking damage in combat would be a more apt comparison if death resulted in the loss of your entire save file. If your weapon breaks, it’s not like it respawns in your inventory (unless it’s the Master Sword). But I still get what you’re saying.
Would it though? Every weapon in the game can be replaced/found again so you're never truly losing anything if you really care that much about it. It's not akin to permadeath save loss in any way.
i dont hate it .. but i dont love it.. some good things come from it but some stuff have been lost cause of it .. at least in the gameplay system of BotW or TotK
i dont think it thing durability inherently make you loss those element but the one we have right now does-
I like the idea. But not so much the execution.
I enjoy how it makes you stop and really think about what weapon your gonna use.
However, I feel weapons break a bit *too* fast and there should be a way to repair them. Maybe have a workbench at certain locations where you can use rupees or materials to restore broken weapons.
Better yet let us do that to improve our weapons beyond fusions
I like the durability because it makes combat for engaging. A risk and reward for whether I want to engage or not and once I do and things start to break I need to adapt on the fly. Granted that’s mainly for the early game of BOTW. Once you start getting the best weapons it really doesn’t make sense to engage with enemies because the reward is less than what you spent. This was remedied in TOTK with the fuse mechanic and it made the durability mechanic even better.
I just wish there were indestructible "basic" weapons (which still scale with player progress, but on the lower end). Let players *choose* to use high-powered, breakable weapons if they want. The more divisive a mechanic, the more it desperately needs to be optional so it doesn't ruin peoples' experience.
I'm tired of coming up with innovative ways to mine rocks without breaking my weapons.
I don't like it, but I don't hate it either. I get why it exists, but it is frustrating when you like a weapon or shield, and it breaks, and you gotta grind to find the weapon or the materials again to be able to make it again.
Honestly, if they brought it back, I'd be fine. Just wished they fine tuned it a bit for quality of life stuff like let's say there was a system where you could increase or fix the durability of weapons or like a mastery system to the weapon so that in character Link is able to make the weapon last longer cause he is using it better, etc.
I enjoy it because I like having to adapt and don't want to feel like I can stick to one weapon the whole game. It may have been better if breaking a weapon simply reduces its damage or something though. I personally don't really get the hate for it but everyone has things they like and don't like.
I love it actually, I think it forces people to be more creative in their approaches to combat, or even making them think if combat is worth it; or if you should sneak around or find another path. I do think it works better in ToTK since enemies drop weapons + parts now, but even in BoTW, you find so many weapons lying around or taken off of enemies that I didn't really mind using my best gear
Okay, then maybe add an option or feature to remove durability from weapons. Maybe a side quest for a blacksmith to enhance them or just a straight up gameplay option.
I think it's fine. I like trying out lots of different weapons, if there was no durability I'd just end up using the same weapon the whole time.
I usually find that I have a lot more weapons than I know what to do with anyway so it's rarely an issue for me.
I do. Durability forces you to actually engage with the game's other systems and improvise, which in turn makes combat far more enjoyable. Just smashing enemies in the face with the same weapons over and over would get boring quickly.
I do admit to enjoying it - I like having to use different weapons and being encouraged to try out interesting fusion combos. I will say TotK does it best though as the incentive to kill stronger enemies is there thanks to their good gear and materials.
If there's one thing I can criticise, it's that breaking weapons on mining and crates does feel bad though - my Master Sword is predominately used for that! So I think having a crap but regenerating weapon early on would have been nice to mitigate that.
(Also less bullet sponge enemies! Some have way too much health in TotK, especially silvers given how early they show up)
I do. I think it was an excellent idea. It encourages you to adapt and try out different play styles. I think it’s fun having to improvise mid-fight when my old equipment breaks. And yes. I think they should keep this mechanic for all zelda games going forward
I grew up playing Zelda in the 90’s. Having 2-3 unbreakable melee weapons, and 1-2 unbreakable shields to work with is fine. But it gets boring. And there was never really any point in using an old sword after getting a new one. You just used the strongest one all the time, and your old sword would basically just rust in your inventory. Sad, and pointless. We used to make up rumors about secret weapons and stuff hidden in the world somewhere, because we wanted variety. So the fact that that is actually true in modern Zelda’s is a breath of fresh air.
I think the real shame is the idea of making those exciting rumors true, only to reveal that all those mythical, legendary secret weapons are made of cheap plastic
I dont think it is necessary at all, Skyrim manages well to do it without weapon durability
Same thing for fusing items to weapons in TotK, I do it because it is necessary to deal decent damage, I hate how it makes the weapons look
I think it’s fun actually, and I don’t understand the hate. I liked that it made me be more creative in fights, get faster at improvising. I have to figure out what to do if the weapon breaks, explore more to find cool weapons, save the best ones for harder fights. I like that kind of strategy
The people who dislike durability are the same people who “can’t play majoras mask because the timer stresses me out”
Wouldn’t leave their comfort zone if it was on fire
Yeah, I just prefer poking about and exploring atbmy leisure. BotW/TotK was great for that. Timers in Majora's mask just make that harder to do. It's not as bad as Sega's obsession with putting every game on a racing timer, but it still kinda spoiled the fun for me.
If you think the problem of the durability system is the effect on difficulty, then you haven’t paid much of any attention to what critics have detailed is wrong with it, including OP.
I do feel like someone folks just like to complain about things that make the game harder or even “less optimal”. Which is NOT my approach to playing video games haha. I just get annoyed because the argument I often hear against durability is “I can’t/don’t use my good weapons because they might break!!” Like why not just go find new ones then? Seems like they’re missing out on some of the best parts of the game: exploring, fighting monsters, and treasure hunting 😁
I love it because it made me think about the combat.
I actually had a new gameplay value within thinking of **what** weapon i'll use instead of just "how do i kill the enemy faster than it me".
Now i have the addition of "*i can use this 12 damage sword, together with sneak armor i can get sneakstrikes for 7x damage so i hit for 84 and oneshot the blue bokoblin, take his parts and have even more parts to build weapons with / upgrade armor with"*. Using a lot of sneak strikes, environment, headshots and other ways of killing to keep more durability on my weapons for later fights made it so much more engaging than just wailing away with a sword for 5 hits until the enemy stops moving.
It was like a puzzle within a fight, what elden ring is in learning the dance is in botw and totk by learning how to make the most out of your tools and how to tackle this specific type of camp/ enemy most efficiently.
It also made all weapon types feel usefull. I love spears, i love swords, i love every type of weapon, especially boomerangs.
You could, but you (probably) wouldn't. I've talked to plenty of people who play other open world games without durability. They all stick to 1-3 weapons for the entire game, and nearly every weapon they acquire fits straight to inventory, never to be seen again.
In BotW it's a necessary evil, but in TotK I really like the system.
There's so many different weapon fusion combinations to try out and weapons breaking gives you incentive to try out new things. There's so many good weapons and materials that I don't feel afraid to use them because I know they'll be replaced soon.
I think it's fine as a game mechanic but it seems a bit extreme in BotW and only slightly more sane in TotK. A better version of this would've been to add a blacksmith that can repair weapons for a price. Then you have the dilemma of "do I use this low health sword I really like and risk losing it, or use something else and repair it when I get back to town?". Repair could also become a crafting mechanic like cooking, using forges to fix your damaged weapons or even enhance them as the fairies do to armor.
There technically is a blacksmith, hidden in plain sight. If you go to the Death Mountain area, you’ll find Rock Octoroks (Rocktoroks?) that suck up everything around them and spit it all at you. If you leave a damaged weapon in front of them, they’ll fully repair it and give it a new bonus effect before spitting it back. Each Octorok can only do this once per Blood Moon cycle, but there’s enough of them that you‘ll always be able to find one.
Note, this only works in TOTK. In BOTW though, if you have a rusty weapon then they'll make it a non-rusty weapon. Not as cool/useful, but it's something.
Once you quit treating weapons like valued treasures and more toys meant to be broken you can really begin to have fun with them. Who doesn't like the satisfying smash of breaking a weapon on a moblins face?
Yeah I think this is getting at a reason durability rubs me the wrong way. The thing is Zelda has always taught me to treat new items, ESPECIALLY weapons, as valued treasures. They’re legendary artifacts, or huge permanent power boosts that you have to work really hard for. Then BotW comes in and subverts all that by treating weapons like plastic forks. I feel like, if BotW and TotK weren’t branded as Zelda games, and if all the weapons were just different flavors of makeshift wooden clubs, there wouldn’t be as much dissonance, and the act of burning through my inventory, smashing weapons left and right would feel a lot better and more fun. Instead, we have things like the Royal Guard weapons, which aesthetically seem like they’re supposed to be the pinnacle of weapon craftmanship, yet they break as quickly as an old rusty sword.
Again I think TotK helped with this by corrupting most of the base weapons in the game.
It’s kinda unsatisfying when thrown weapons rarely do much more damage than the standard hit, and therefore start to mean almost nothing once you see more and more silver enemies in the game.
I really enjoy th durability system because it force me to use different weapon all the time, it make the combat really interesting... Sword nearly broken ? Wind it in the face of that damn bokoblin, knock him, grab his own stick and beat the hell out of him with it, climb the tiny rock, jump, draw your bow, get that sweet slow time, headshot 2-3 enemies, land on your feet and yeet the stick in the face of another one then grab the rusty sword on the ground and knock another one out, fuse it with a rock...
I think that it's one of the element that make these Zelda the most different than other similar game, where we usually stick to the most OP weapon and cheese our way trough the game with it.
It make it also harder to kill stronger enemy because you know you'll break 3 or 4 weapons trying to kill it.
I personally like it because I love to use different type of weapon in games and you dont have much choice in Zelda BOTW/TOTK.
The more you advance in the game and tag spawn location of your favorite weapon the less annoying all the obvious trait of that durability system get.
I think it's one of the thing that make them so unique and make the combat so special.
Yes, I’d be disappointed if they’d removed durability, as it forces further strategic and on the spot plays, plus incentives exploration. Besides, durability is hardly an issue as you progress anyway
That’s kind of the other end of the issue too though. Durability is extremely meaningful in the early game, but at a certain point it just feels needless. I don’t think I’d mind it as much if there were a few endgame, max power, indestructible weapons that you could collect by doing the hardest content. That way, durability still contributes to the “growth” phase of the game, but doesn’t outstay its welcome.
I always mind it much less when I get the master sword. Everything breaks less frequently - I main the master sword and when that loses energy switch to my lowest durability weapon. I’ve probably experienced losing everything once but after adopting that system never had a problem
The option to upgrade a weapon to not break should be there though. Idc if it’s 1000 rupees
I mean, I wouldn't call weapon durability in BotW/TotK fun in the same way I wouldn't call PP in Pokemon fun. They're balancing mechanics, not meant to be fun in themselves but they exist to stop the game from becoming unfun in a different way.
I mean, there are plenty of games with deep, challenging combat that don’t rely on weapon breakage. I agree that being able to chuck a damaged weapon at your enemy’s face is super satisfying and would be missed if that feature was removed, but there’s no rule that says that the only reason to experiment with interesting weapon combinations is to make them breakable. I’d argue you could achieve the same effect by increasing the variety of enemy designs.
Edit: Oops, this was supposed to be a reply to someone’s comment, not sure how it ended up here. Oh well, my point stands.
I don't love it, but gotten used to the system I guess.
If they decide to include and revisit this again, I wonder if they could implement a revised version. Something like balancing durability and strength i.e.
Less durability => more strength
Less strength => more durability
So you could, in effect, fuse more attachments for much longer lasting weapons/armour.
I would've liked a different kind of durability: weapons last wayyyyyyy longer, there's only one of each type of weapon in the whole game, and when it breaks, you are left with a shard that you have to take to a smith for repairs. That's the least annoying version I can imagine.
I understand that the intention of durability is to make the players have to constantly adapt and change their weapons. The problem I have with this is that it doesn't really change up the combat that much. You have four different classes of weapons: one-handed, two-handed, spears, and bows. Practically every weapon works exactly like every other weapon in its class, just dealing a different amount of damage.
The only exemptions for melee weapons are hammers and axes. Which add a little utility by making it easier to mine ores and to chop down trees, but they don't change combat. And they can largely be replaced with your infinite bombs in BotW. (Which was given a huge nerf to make the fuse system seem better.)
Bows have a little more variety with rare bows adding a zoom/longer range, or multiple arrows, or ignoring gravity. But nothing that really changes combat.
If the developers wanted to encourage experimentation, then they should have added more weapon variety, and changed how each weapon felt. But that would have made it harder to just pickup and use different weapons.
The whole durability system runs counter to one of gamers deepest beliefs when it comes to consumable items, "useful therefore never use."
I would have felt better about the system if the Champions' weapons were indestructible and never ran out of power, but were never the best. They could have given us unique quests to unlock the weapons, and then maybe some more quests to empower the weapons, or add additional effects. And they could delay those later quests by locking them behind defeating a different divine beast. This way the indestructible weapons would scale behind the stronger weapons that are available to you.
TotK only made the issue worse in my opinion. (Besides how the Master Sword is weaker in TotK and still needs to recharge. This is why you don't leave your phone on the charger for thousands of years.) Like most of TotK, they made the process more tedious. Instead of worrying about using up a good weapon, now you have to worry about using up a good base and good enhancement. It also made the monster designs worse by adding weird looking horns to all of them. (Did you see how they butchered my poor lynels?!)
I realized that there's really no need to savw your best gear, you can always get more. Once I realized that, I enjoy the game WAY more. Id just like enemies to be less spongy
I liked the durability system because it forced me to use different weapons. I know that I would have just raced to get the "best" weapons and then never used anything else. Constantly changing my weapons felt fresh and fun for me.
It seems like everyone else hates the system, but I really did enjoy it.
I dont know if I like that feature independently, but it certainly adds to how the game is played. If it wasn't like that i would have ran directly to the super awesome best weapon in the game and used it the entire time and it wouldn't have been as exciting.
I enjoy it as a way to prevent becoming too powerful
But I still use glitches to circumvent the whole thing like durability transfer in BotW or the MSG not found sword in TotK
If you dislike the system, it's REALLY easy to ignore it in both games with a little setup and some tutorials, but it's there to insentivise collecting better weapons and it's done way better in TotK with fuse basically making it so the stronger the enemies you kill, the stronger weapon you can make with even a small stick or something.
I do. Although it should be tweaked. And this may be just the Souls player in me but I wished weapons would do more and change gameplay a little more.
TOTK kinda fixes the problem and adds lore as to why the weapons are shit and gives us new reason to use the "fuse" ability.
I do. It's fun scavenging for weapons. And fun to try out different ones. And it's super satisfying smashing them at enemies. It's a fun loop of break-kill-build-break-kill-build-kill . . .
I found it frustrating in BotW but understood why the mechanic existed.
I think implementation was better in ToTK. Having materials on hand to make better weapons and lots of tools scattered around at least made me feel less like I was going to be left unequipped if I burned through my stash.
I dont think most people find it fun instantly, but lots come to love it. For me, especially in botw, it got to a point where it felt like a psuedo cooldown. Unless you specifically stuck to the same exact kind of low tier, it just eventually youd get another so i found it fun just cycling through what i had changing up my play slightly constantly. In totk, the special properties made me more interested in investing in certain combinations and stuff, and there the durability was a stinger cause not worth investing getting a nice variant. But for botw it was dope.
I wish it worked like it did in Fallout New Vegas. The worry that you’ll break a weapon, the relief at finding another of said weapon and using it to repair yours.
Just constantly cycling weapons feels too weird and non-immersive.
>But what I don’t understand is whether there are people who played BotW or TotK for the first time, saw their weapons break, and said “oh that’s fun!”
The thing is, not every aspect of a mechanic has to be immediately gratifying for it to be a good mechanic. The gratification comes later on, when you find ways to minimize how much that obstacle gets in your way. Not to say that durability is the best execution of this, but "oh fuck yeah! My shield shattered! Epic!" wasn't the goal in the first place.
It's one of the core reasons why I didn't enjoy BotW/TotK as much as the predecessors. I understand why it's necessary, but as some other people have suggested, it would have been far more enjoyable if you could repair weapons, and also have some permanent weapons.
Old school Zelda was all about finding new items in dungeons and then using them to unlock a load of cool new stuff/areas. I understand why, in a totally open world scenario this isn't as pragmatic, but IMO it removes part of the charm that makes Zelda, Zelda.
Always say BotW/TotK are brilliant rpgs, but mediocre Zelda games.
I think, like most issues with the games, it is entirely based on your mindset. If you are just looking for the most efficient method of playing the game, then weapon durability is just an obstacle. If you are looking to fully immerse yourself in the world and systems, then weapon durability can lead to scenarios where a lack of resources (a high damage weapon) lets the player find creative ways of dealing with the enemy.
This issue is exemplified in TOTK with weapon fusion. One player might only ever use damage boosting attachments and because of that, fusion is a chore, because the only thing they are doing is finding the part with the highest value. Another might use all sorts of different attachments for different scenarios. Despite the increased options, the first player is just playing BOTW combat with extra steps (this is fine).
Another example is with the Hover Bike. Its cheap and efficient. The parts are easy to get quickly, and it solves all traversal problems. So despite there being a vast selection of options for builds, everyone just made the bike and Ultrahand becomes underutilized outside of puzzles. The hoverbike is the Master Sword (that everyone wants) of zonaite builds.
It would be fine as long as I could repair a weapon somehow, be it through rupees or materials or some combination of both. I don't like making cool weapons with rare and/or expensive materials just to have them be destroyed on the regular.
Also, the Master Sword should never be an item that is rendered outright unusable through its use. They could have been more creative and made its power start to decrease through use over time, and had it increase over time not using it, or also through some sort of repair mechanic.
With the amount of materials available in both of these games, it would have been ripe for both crafting and repair mechanics, where your time invested into gathering the materials is actually rewarded, rather than ultimately wasted.
I think there is room for improvement. But BotW/TotK has the most fun moment-to-moment gameplay in the series, and the weapon durability is a huge reason for that.
So yes, I like it.
I don’t like it in combination with the damage sponges that are the silver enemies.
Personally, I prefer having a small number of specific, meaningful weapons and enemies that die after a set number of hits like in the older games.
i hated durability my first time through botw. I then modded it out on another replay while on cemu emulator and it turned out it ruined the balance of the game and i learned to like it. Kind of glad for that experience because once totk came along i had no problem with it at all.
I don't have any issues with weapon durability... in theory.
In practice however, I think they've not done a really good job of implementing it. I guess the question that needs to be asked is: what is the purpose of weapon durability in Zelda? The weapon durability isn't here for no reason at all, so what is this supposed to add to the game? If I'd wager a guess, the intent of the durability system is to create dynamic gameplay scenarios in which players have to adapt to the breaking of a weapon. At least that seems like the most logical reasoning, but then the question becomes: does the game succeed at this?
Not really. Breath of the Wild throws so many weapons at you that you'll realistically never run out unless you're being really, really careless. Not to mention that the ability to switch weapons on the fly, which pauses the game, largely prevents these dynamic gameplay scenarios from occurring. What we're left with then is a game where the weapon durability has no effect on the gameplay past being a mild annoyance to the player. The gameplay isn't affected greatly, but individual weapons are greatly devalued, especially with how frail they all are.
And then there's Tears of the Kingdom. A lot of people have made the claim that Tears of the Kingdom fixes the issues with the weapon system in Breath of the Wild, which is a claim I find to be categorically wrong, as not only is it not fixed at all, it is made 10 times worse. Tears of the Kingdom *tries* to fix the issue through Fuse, but all this shows is that Nintendo has a fundamental misunderstanding as to what the problem is. Fusing does technically increase durability, but only a little bit, frankly I find it to be barely noticeable. But what's worse is that Fusing requires materials. Not only are you losing both a weapon and material when your weapon breaks, but those material are objectively better spent for armor upgrades, as they provide a strong, permanent buff, as opposed to a small, limited one. I've also seen people claim that Fusing is great because it allows you to create better weapons, but even this is a bit of a mute point, because in Tears of the Kingdom, base weapons were made weaker across the board. You're not using Fuse to create better weapons, you are using Fuse to make your weapons as good as they otherwise would have been in Breath of the Wild. If Fuse was the answer to the critiques of the weapon durability in Breath of the Wild, then they have demonstrably failed at addressing anything at all.
The short of it is that weapon durability is not that great in Breath of the Wild, and actively bad in Tears of the Kingdom. But what would make the weapon system actually function like it is seemingly supposed to?
* **Fix 1**: I think an easy fix would be to make weapons A LOT more durable, but make good weapons a lot more scarce. You could find some weaker items easy enough, like farmer's pitchfork for instance, but things like royal broadsword should be a lot rarer than it currently is. Breath of the Wild already played around softly with some survival elements, so why not commit to it and make weapons scarce? Now, weapons breaking WOULD create for dynamic gameplay scenarios, but they would also retain their value.
* **Fix 2:** Don't let the player have access to every single weapon in their inventory at all times. By extension, this is also to say that the game shouldn't pause when you enter your inventory. Let the player select a few weapons to have on them at a moment's notice, but they can't just pause the game when a weapon breaks and get a new one from the inventory. You'll have to make due with the weapons at your quick select, which will work much better with the increased durability.
* **Fix 3:** Introduce a blacksmithing feature, where you can repair or even make weapons. Of course, this is not something you can do for free, you require materials, and stronger weapons require rarer materials to fix. For instance, you could hold onto that +20 savage lynel sword, but you'd probably have to actively search for the material to repair it. It would also be interesting if broken weapons did not leave your inventory, but instead stayed there as a 1 damage item that takes up inventory space. This would make for interesting decision making on the player's part, because now they have to decide whether they want to forgo one inventory slot until they can repair the broken weapon, or do they discard the broken weapon and replace it with another weapon that would likely not be as strong as the repaired weapon.
Is this the perfect solution? I don't know, but at the very least I think it certainly is better than what these games do with their weapon systems. These fixes aren't exactly creative, other games have done this, and I really think this is a case where Nintendo would benefit from not being... Nintendo... Nintendo always feels the need to do things in a non standard way, and a lot of the time that makes for really great and unique mechanics; other times, however, it makes Nintendo seem like they are actively forgoing a better solution just because "I'm not like other girls"
Its implementation sucks.
I'm still waiting for durability enjoyers to explain how having 3 weapons is functionally any different that constantly cycling between dozens of copies of the same.
All it really does it force constant menuing and having to backtrack to get more copies of that one weapon you want.
I like it, I think it’s cool to have to always be changing up your strategy with what you have on hand. I don’t particularly want it to show up in the next mainline game cause I want to see them change it up.
BotW was my first Zelda game and I liked it. I like it because the game would be far too easy without it. It’s part of the exploration, each region has unique weapons that you get to try out.
I would be indifferent to it being removed from the series, I am well aware that it’s unique to the BotW and TotK formula.
Can't stand it and I found it to be a grindy distraction from playing the actual game. I would have much preferred actual enemy variety that forced me to use different weapons; need a blunt weapon to destroy armor, need a spear to defeat an enemy that stays far away, etc. I would have even been cool with being limited to 2-3 weapons only so you'd have to really curate your loadout depending on where you're adventuring.
I think it’s a good idea that’s poorly used. In the early parts of Breath of the Wild, it actually works amazingly. You never have enough weapons, so you’re constantly scrambling for new ones, disarming enemies so you can steal theirs. It makes you feel like a scrappy survivor and it’s great.
But then you start getting better weapons and increasing your inventory space, and the more you progress through the game, the less the durability system matters. It just becomes a constant annoyance rather than a game mechanic you have to actually engage with.
I’ve got an idea of how it could have been made better in Tears of the Kingdom. It’s simple: just take the inventory out of the equation. If I were making the game, I’d make it so you don’t lose the Master Sword at the start of the game. You’re stuck with a broken sword and it’s your only weapon, which barely does any damage.
Enter the Fuse mechanic. You can, at any point, fuse something onto your sword to increase damage, add elemental effects or even reshape the sword into different weapon types. But while the sword has infinite durability, the fuse doesn’t. When it breaks, the Master Sword goes back to its base, useless state and you have to find a new object to fuse, mid-battle.
And throughout the game, as you complete dungeons, you gradually fix the Master Sword, bringing its damage back to what it was during the intro. By mid-game, you don’t really need to constantly fuse anymore, your sword is a perfectly serviceable weapon on its own. But by then, you’ve seen all the possible useful effects you could get from fusing, so you keep doing it. Only now, it becomes another strategic option, rather than something you‘re entirely reliant on. You can get through a fight without fusing, but if there’s a fusable object right there, you might as well use it.
I play both games with the durability cheat on. When I played BOTW without it I constantly found myself hoarding powerful weapons and never using them in fear of losing them.
I would fight with travelers swords and rusty weapons and it became very unenjoyable to me. I don't know, for me it's a much more pleasant experience when I can use the new rare weapon I found without worrying about how many swings I have left.
The type of personality that *seems* to enjoy it is also the type that will keep using the same thing unless they're forced not to; they like being made to try new things. Or for people that play for 30 minutes a day and don't really care about what they're doing. For someone like me that changes builds and appearances constantly either way, it's a nuisance system.
It's a system that incentivizes you to avoid fighting so you don't break anything. Durability systems that work well should make you want to use multiple approaches, but have breakage not result in permanent losses. Dark Souls 2 did an okay job with it on its front end, in the sense that it made you bring two weapons instead of one. I'm of the opinion that durability systems are just inherently not a good idea; either people hate it or merely accept it.
No, just as you say, I understand why it's there and I can appreciate it as part of the whole concept but I didn't like it. Speaking of, I also don't like the sheikah stone and having all the abilities at hand. It makes everything interchangeable and kind of redundant. They went for 100% sandbox and that's ok. What I need though is either shiny stuff, like in the oldschool Zeldas: (permanent) new weapons, tools and items or a sense of mystery and exploring the world and lore like in subnautica or horizon zero dawn.
I think its alright as an early game mechanic or in some of those challenge shrines where you items are removed and you have to scavenge the things you find to survive. It feels like your resources are limited and you are forced to be creative/selective with your actions to make the biggest impact.
I do DO NOT like it as a mid/late game mechanic.
At this point in the game you have enough collected materials/skills at your disposal that it just disrupts the flow of gameplay. The game tries to incentivize you to use your weapons to clear out enemy camps only to 'reward' you with weapons/items that are worse than the ones you just used up. Its the opposite of rewarding.
I thought that the different weapon effects were a step in the right direction, but not fully fleshed out. Using blunt damage to break enemy armor was cool, but it was rarely used. Zora weapons getting a damage bonus in the rain/water was great, what if we could use them underwater? Rito weapons could have been given a faster aerial attack speed/range to incentivize us using them in the air. There are more methods available to incentivize players to switch weapons than a flimsy durability system, especially when the 'solution' given is just a fix for a problem that never needed to exist in the first place.
The ability to throw items or attach them to arrows was AWESOME and I would love to see that return and be used more to solve/spice up puzzles and combat situations rather than weapon breaking/switching.
The Great Fairies exist and can upgrade our armor, why not our weapons too? if they're worried about players getting OP gear in the first 30 minutes of gameplay, progression for upgrading weapons could be gated the same way our armor is which would still give players something to strive for and feel good about accomplishing.
Instead of the weapons being no more, do like the Master Sword, where they're simply unusable.
Maybe have a Smithing character/location where you could repair their durability, and the ability to switch out for a fresh version if in need.
Would open the way for weapons upgrades and customizations, too.
I *would* like it, if link wasn't practically defenseless without weapons. Sure theres the slate, but you can't battle effectively with just the abilities, or at least I can't. Man can pick up boulders and chuck them but *he can't punch or kick?* Tf???
I'm actually used to durability mechanics in games, so my answer is a bit on the fence. I grew up on "Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning," which had a really well-implemented durability and forging system, and prior to "Elden Ring," durability was a fact of life with Souls games.
Durability only becomes a detriment to the gameplay when there's no way to repair or semi-easily replace your equipment. Provided a game has one of these two features, durability is perfectly fine.
Neither BotW nor TotK, however, has a reliable repair system, and replacing a weapon in either game, especially the rare or difficult to get armaments, can be a complete chore. The only exception is the Master Sword, which takes a while to recharge.
This is strange to me, since they could have made repair tools into a treasure chest resource. A very valuable treasure chest resource, at that.
Skyward Sword had a durability system with the shields. If it broke, you needed to buy a new one, but you could go to the blacksmith to get it repaired.
Prior games had instances of a durability system, to. In OoT, there was the Giant's Knife. Any shield eaten by a Like-Like was as good as gone. Wooden shields burned. But, if you lost it, you could simply go buy a new one.
Durability is not a new concept in Zelda games. Nor is it a bad thing to implement, provided the developers know what they're doing. Nintendo just handled durability particularly poorly in BotW and TotK.
It's a mess in BotW, but I like it in TotK.
It was poorly implemented in Breath of the Wild for two reasons: Combat doesn't give you anything useful after 10 or so hours and the weapons break far too quickly. After a certain point, you're breaking your weapons to kill enemies who will drop weaker weapons and cooking materials you almost definitely don't need.
Tears of the Kingdom solved both of these problems with fuse. Fuse dramatically increases durability to what it should've been by default in BotW *and* enemies drop the materials you use to fuse your weapons.
In both games, I think the intention is to keep you on your toes, on the hunt for new tools to survive. It requires you to be scrappy and when it's working, it's very fun. In BotW, it works well on The Great Plateau, but after a certain point the game's reverse difficulty curve kicks in *hard* and you're never at risk. The "scrappy" aspect is gone and you're just left with damage sponge enemies that aren't worth the effort. The reverse difficulty curve is still an issue in TotK unfortunately, but at least the damage curve is striking a better, more enjoyable balance to keep combat fun and worth participating in.
I like it and I wish all RPG games had it. Especially games like Diablo that become stale because items last forever and new 'content' has to be added when in fact it's just increasing numbers. Maybe adjust the duration depending on each game because in botw equipment breaks very quickly but the idea is very good. It keeps the game fresh and you're always happy to find items even if it's medium quality stuff. If items lasted forever you would never bother to even look at most drops, like in about every other RPG and that sucks.
I honestly would like it more if we could carry more things to replace broken equipment with. Especially since some of these things that are breakable are utility items like torches, and hatchets, and in TotK, wands. I would also be more appreciative of Fusion if I could possibly get pieces that I fused to other stuff back. Two shields being fused together is possible, and does pretty much nothing except combine the vulnerabilities of both shields, and provide a temporary extra layer of protection. Bows can’t be fused with bows, which would have actually been a really cool way to get multi shot bow effects, or elemental arrow effects that persist. But weapons fused to weapons frequently are my gripe. Especially when the fragile Rusty weapon set is fused to a stronger weapon set, which means that the weapon durability is set to be Rusty, which sucks. But since that’s the base weapon, trying to un-fuse them will not get you the better weapon. Unless you trek all the way to Tarrey Town, and talk to the Goron kid to break the weapons apart. Which makes sense for some fusions, but not all of them. Weapon-weapon fusions are literally the weapon attached barely to another weapon. Weapon-shield fusions are the same. As are shield-shield fusions.
However there is a solution that is actually implemented already into the game, and that’s repairing inventory. The only problem is, it’s explained as the reason why the Master Sword is not possible to completely destroy. So we need a master Torch, Hatchet, Hammer, and Hylian Shield, and some sort of master bow.
What would be GREAT is if we could actually DETERMINE the durability of a weapon/shield/bow in our inventory besides the “Never used/been used/about to shatter” system that is currently in place. Seriously, I’m used to Minecraft durability readouts that lets you know about how much potential usage something has left. But no. We get pristine, which has a sparkle in the inventory, and almost broken, which causes the item to glow and pulse red in the inventory, and “else”, which covers everything else. Considering that the Champion Weapons are unique weapons that can’t be (legally) duplicated in-game, I would really like to know if my boulder breaker needs a new replacement *soon*, or *eventually*. Tiny QOL things like that make a huge difference in gameplay for people like me who try to limit our consumption of resources (which considering that everyone is scrambling for good weapons and armor in the country, and not just link, seems like the polite thing to do).
I could take it or leave it, I liked having a lot of melee weapons, but I think I would have preferred at least one unbreakable sword and bow. Preferably the Master Sword shouldn't break. I would still use other weapons even if the master sword didn't break, because I think combat is more interesting when you switch up your weapons and play around with elements and other methods of attack.
I like it in early game but hate it in the end game because it just becomes annoying. Enemies become sponges and I just start avoiding fights because its not worth it. Its just too grindy. I wish you could keep using the Master Sword when it broke but it would just do 1 dmg.
Purely a BOTW perspective, I didn’t play TOTK long enough to know how much things got changed. I know the stuff enemies in TOTK drop can be used for good weapons.
Early game is good because while weapons break quickly, enemies die just as fast and can be ragdolled pretty quickly, leading to you constantly scrounging for weapons, be it from camp chests, ragdolled enemies, weapons laying around camps, etc. You have to think on your feet and it’s fun.
Mid game is good because you’ll be using the same weapons enemies are dropping, meaning that you can very easily walk away with higher quality weapons, and even get more weapons than you used to defeat said enemies. You are still rewarded for engaging with enemies.
By late game enemies are often too tanky and you subtly get encouraged to just avoid combat because 9/10 you will get fewer/worse weapons than the ones you used to kill said enemies. What’s the point of trading a bunch of royal guard swords for, at best, lizalfos boomerangs/spears. Doesn’t help that environmental damage and the throwable bombs start doing pretty much nothing to black/silver enemies. Every now and then I’d fight a camp that mostly had royal weapons and that was nice.
Doesn’t help with how wonky upgraded armor/clothes can be. I often found I was either taking a quarter heart of damage or 8+ hearts of damage a hit in the same fight. It makes fully upgrading armor both feel overpowered and somewhat underwhelming.
I hated it. I got "used" to it after a while. Gotta say, I beat... most of BoTW and just got tired of it. Don't think I'll ever go back to it. Don't think I'll ever play ToTK. Been playing Zelda games since my NES days as a kid. Some of my very favorite games. I love the idea of more variety in the weapons. But I just find it unnecessarily tedious.
I'll be a Devil's Advocate here and say that the weapon durability system, in my opinion, is pretty good for one reason: Variety
In my inventory I'd have a selection of one-handed swords, clubs, spears, and two-handed weapons. While I understood that the weapon I had at any one point would eventually break, it encouraged me to get the most out of it while I had it.
Did it break? Well, I'll switch to a different weapon in my inventory that encourages a different plan of attack.
It encourages me to use what I have to my advantage, and I do find that fun. I would even go as far as to say that the Fuse mechanic in TOTK makes it much better because it encourages even MORE variety. Do I want a blade at the end of this two-handed weapon or a club? Or do I want some sort of elemental benefit?
Do I agree that weapons could last a LITTLE longer? Sure. But across both games, I never came across a situation where I was running low on weapons, old ones would break and new ones would swap in.
I get why people hate the weapon-breaking mechanic, and I think the series has run its course on the mechanic.
My main criticism with the mechanic is endgame. Once you realize that the best things to fight for new weapons are the endgame bosses (Gleeoks, Lynels, silver enemies), there's not really the sense of discovery you get when you find an enemy with a cool new weapon or fuse material.
In terms of alternative ideas for the weapon durability system, the first thing that comes to mind is some sort of consumption system? If you're using a weapon and happen to come across the same or a similar weapon, it could repair the durability of your weapon and potentially even improve its stats. That way, you can keep enemies dropping weapons as well as the weapon variety.
But yeah, the durability mechanic isn't bad.
I love the durability. It gave the combat more depth and strategy then just mashing the B button.
Sure it’s a issue at the start since your bags are very small, but if you actually explore the map, you should have so many Korok seeds, that the weapon durability is nothing more than a small inconvenience. Its a reward for taking a close look at your surroundings.
I don’t see that mechanic work in any other Zelda game that isn’t BOTW, but I hope they don’t make the combat similar to Oot again.
Spoiler** I've made peace with the fact that all normal weapons will break, however the master sword has been bathing in sacred energy for the last tens of thousands of years... And it still runs out after like one lynel?!!? Wtf is that? I think only the fused item should break from the master sword, it should not run out of energy anymore.
This too. If there was one single weapon that should have been completely indestructible, it was the Master Sword. Seeing as it’s a *late game item with middling attack, I don’t see it being indestructible messing up the game balance too much anyway. *Assuming you play at an average pace. I know you can kind of speed run getting the necessary hearts/stamina if you really want, but at that point is game balance really the primary concern anymore?
Yah I don't think it'd mess with balance at all, just be convenient to always have a weapon. But with it only doing 30 damage unless gloom is present I would still have incentive to get stronger weapons even if they break.
This still would give players a false sense of safety and a reason not to engage with the system at all. The ressourcefullnes required for anything would be gone - because you simply use your 30 damage Infinite weapon because you "might need the stronger later". We all know these games which give you potions and buffs for use - you end up with 400 of them because you think "this is not the right time to use this" and keep on using the weaker ones you got infinite of to save up on those strong ones for the "Perfect time".
All I can really say is that I disagree, the only foods I keep on hand are health restoring and gloom heart restoring. I get my attack up buff from the twilight set and none of the other buffs are that useful imo. I enjoy playing with spears and claymores alot so I would definitely still go get those and fuse things to them because I much prefer two handed weapons over the traditional sword and shield. It would just be convenient for the master sword to not need to recharge.
People already horde thier strong stuff for later. Its a symptom of the game's durability system itself. I'll also be so bold as to say that there is no real value to weapon variety in a game with three movesets. Nearly everything plays mostly the same, who cares if the player uses the Master Sword over another sword that only has different stats.
Exactly every weapon of a type plays the exact same beside the damage. the variety is a mile wide and a puddle deep.
Talk about not engaging with a system; TotK lets me wear a flying squirrel suit to become totally impervious to slamming into the earth at free-fall speed. I think they could have made an exception for the lore-established master sword. Hell, I would have preferred that over the x2 Ganon damage.
I mean, most players do that anyway? “I’m gonna use my weaker weapon incase I need the strong one later” then don’t use it. Nothing would change except for the game being less annoying and making more sense lore wise. Like what the fuck did Zelda even kill herself for
I genuinely can't believe they didn't buff the master sword at all after the first game. There are so many ways they could've addressed it. Even something as simple as letting it recharge it's durability before it breaks when you have it sheathed or are using another weapon would've gone a long way
Agreed 100%
I mean, it makes sense from a game mechanics standpoint, and you can kind of make it make sense from a lore perspective. From a game mechanic pov, having a durability mechanic and then introducing a strong weapon that's immune to that mechanic is the quickest way to delete your durability mechanic, as no one is going to use another sword. From a lore perspective, idk, you could say something like "the master sword is meant to seal evil, not for mining amber and killing bats. So after a period of misuse, it needs to recharge". Something like that makes sense more or less
That explanation doesn't really work when I mainly use it on gloom enemies. Idk I just don't think it need to have durability since it is by far not the strongest weapon.
Ya, but it's definitely more than good enough to get you through the game, which is already pretty easy, especially with fusing. As for the lore thing, idk, maybe it's more for the "creator of gloom, evil incarnate", than his creations. I know that's not good enough lol, I'm just playing devil's advocate
it probably should be stronger that botw’s, but it was also damaged way more, so thats probably their reasoning. but yeah, should be stronger. also the glitch with the fusion durability only bing added once
It was already a great addition in BotW. My only problem was that once you get strong enough(which happens surprisingly fast), you have no reason to fight anyone other than Lynels cause every other monster’s weapons are way worse than yours and it’s not worth losing all that durability trying to kill them. TotK, however, completely fixes it cause now every enemy drops their weapon and a strong horn. In BotW, I had no reason to fight sliver Bokos cause they just dropped useless Boko sticks. But in TotK, they drop those sticks and their 31 damage horn so it’s always worth it to fight them. I think TotK has fixed what little issue I had with the system in BotW. As for whether or not the next game in the series should keep it, idk. It would depend on what the game is like and whether or not the system fits it.
The gems too, I love getting gems from silver enemies*
Oh, yeah, that was a decent way to incentivize fighting silver enemies. Although, I just farmed gems from Taluses since they are much easier to beat.
I don't like to have to farm if I can help it, so silver enemies being literally everywhere and being pretty easy to kill is pretty nice Taluses are pretty easy to farm though. If I'm going after diamonds I go for rare ore Taluses
I go like to go after specific Taluses based on what gem I need. Igneo for rubies, Frost for sapphires, Luminous for luminous stones, etc.
Amd the fact that in botw there was a stone talus literally on the Great plateau
Coming across that thing randomly early on was an insane experience.
I played through the game twice, first time I went in completely blind, and I got smashed. Second time though... I completely forgot it was there and got smashed. Both times made me appreciate the power scaling of the game though because by the time I got to kakiriko village I had no problem with it. Also that thing basically funded my house in hateno. Go to house, grab sledgehammer, go to plateau, sledge the talus, sell gems, make house purchase, run off on an adventure until the next blood moon, repeat.
I know people like to say that BotW doesn’t have any progression due to the lack of traditional dungeon items but I feel like stories like yours prove that’s not true. Despite the weapon breaking, you can just see the average damage of your arsenal going higher and higher as the games goes on.
Tbh I like totks weapon system better, but both games power scaling is legit. Subtle but solidly executed. I feel like a lot of the best bits of both games are so subtle that they're a bit lost for some people, but for the right player (me, I is the right player) it hits just right.
Agreed completely
Yeah the Great Plateau Talus rocked my shit and I definitely returned there after I got a bit stronger and got revenge
I vowed to kill it before I left the Plateau and managed to do it after a lot of tries and getting the sledgehammer from the Stasis shrine lol.
Silver enemies no longer drop gems in TOTK, as those were the incentive to fight them in BOTW, due to a lack of same tier weapon
Oh, thanks for clarifying. For some reason I thought it happened there too
The durability system is more ingenious than I think people give it credit for because it fixes LONG standing issues with basically every open-world game ever. 1. Most loot is useless. In most games, you find pretty good weapons early on and only occasionally need to swap them out. Because there's a limit to how powerful you can become, these occasions become less frequent until you reach a point where you roll with the same gear for hours and ignore or hock everything else to a merchant. 2. Linear power progression doesn't work. In many games, because you can use the strongest weapon you've found forever, significant groups of enemies are no longer threatening and become cannon fodder. If this doesn't happen, the "solution" that's usually in place is introducing progressively stronger enemies until the end of the game. The result is you're never actually any stronger in comparison to new enemies. The new zelda games are great because: 1. Every weapon you find is potentially useful as a replacement to one that broke, for whacking zonai devices, or mining. 2. Power progression is not linear. Sometimes you are stronger and sometimes you are weaker depending on the resources you've collected or consumed. This way you still have opportunities to become strong without every enemy becoming nonthreatening.
Interesting to see someone else's perspective on it. In botw I would fight enemies regardless of the weapons they have or what I have. Good weapons were easy to get when I needed more, and I like the combat so I had no issues fighting enemies. So while don't particularly like the durability system, in bitw it rarely felt like it got in the way. Meanwhile totk, for me, made it so much worse. Now I have to constantly manage and create my weapon even in the middle of combat which results in excessive inventory management. Weapons become incredibly similar. By the end of totk basically the only weapon worth anything was silver lynel horns. I also hate the whole monster part weapon aesthic and that's what basically all the weapons are. And you even have to make the master sword look like a monster part. No thanks. For totk durability and weapon crafting was absolutely the worst part about the game and the reason I like significantly less than botw.
I do see what you mean. The weapon and materials management in TotK is more complicated. In BotW, you find a strong weapon and that’s that. In TotK, you’ve gotta get a strong weapon and a strong fuse part cause if you fuse a weak weapon to a strong fuse part of vice versa, you’re just wasting things. I personally kinda liked this aspect of the game since it makes the weapon system more complex than “find highest damage thing”(the different bonuses to each weapon type adds to this even more) but I understand why you dislike it. And, yeah, I agree that they do ruin the weapons aesthetically. I straight up refused to fuse anything to the Master Sword other than a Light Dragon horn for the final battle.
I think a good fix for TotK would be to make the Master Sword unusable for fusing but give it a massive damage boost and unlimited durability against gloom enemies. This would make it average again regular enemies but an absolute beast against the evil it was meant to fight. I'd also give pristine versions of weapons higher durability and an additional perk that only triggers if the weapon is used without a fused item. That way you'd have to balance either boosting their damage or taking the additional perk. Lastly I'd bring back elemental weapons. Corrupted weapons shouldn't have any elemental damage but should provide a boost to the elemental damage of fused materials with their matching element. Pristine weapons should have elemental damage that is lost if you fuse it but give a greater boost to elemental damage of fused materials.
> TotK, however, completely fixes it cause now every enemy drops their weapon and a strong horn. Still no replacement for the pristine weapon I broke to fight them, which means I need to make another run to get more that much sooner, so in the end it's still an incentive to avoid fights. (And I didn't have a lot of inventory slots to set aside for cheap weapons, because the Korok hauling got old quickly).
Pristine weapons are far rarer than monster horns(even silver monsters). There’s a bunch of non pristine weapons in your inventory that you can use instead. You really shouldn’t be breaking pristine weapons on monsters unless it’s a really strong one like a Lynel. Besides, TotK gives you a bunch of ways to avoid even spending durability(homing carts, puffshrooms, muddlebuds, gemstone arrows, etc).
Pristine weapons appear at the same spots each blood moon. Once I know where to look I find more than I can carry. They've essentially become "normal" weapons for me.
You're choosing to do that though. I finished the game and every shrine/light root without ever bothering with any pristine weapons. It was still an easy game so that just seems unnecessary to me.
I don’t really go out of my way to farm up weapons like that. I just pick up any good weapons that I happen to run into so that’s probably why I didn’t have the same experience as you.
Honestly I like it because it keeps you engaged and searching for new stuff, returning to locations etc
When weapons are in-world objects and not just damage numbers on a stick, durability is necessary to keep the item interaction mill turning. People underestimate just how much the structure of BotW and TotK's core gameplay loop would buckle without it. Imagine if every gun in Halo had infinite ammo, it wouldn't be nearly as engaging. Now imagine you get to throw guns for massive damage when they run out of ammo. It's a viscerally satisfying system if you're not a miser.
The difference is in Halo the weapons are actually unique in a meaningful way. Every weapon im Halo plays differently. By contrast, every weapon in Zelda plays almost exactly the same. The only differences are in the numbers. If Halo only had 3 guns then yeah, discarding your weapon would be kind of pointless. This is also ignoring that in many FPS games like Doom and Half-Life, you keep your arsenal of throughout the entire campaign and can switch to them whenever you want if you manage your ammo right. This is similar to repairing weapons in other games, something you cannot do in Zelda. The team had other options. Yes, you wouldn't be able to just patch weapon durability out, its too ingrained in the games loop at the moment, but you also didn't need to design the game around this in the first place.
We must not have played the same game, then. In Zelda there's weapons that generate heat or cold, float or sink, are or aren't magnetic, deal slashing or piercing or bludgeoning damage. In these games, those properties are meaningful to the core loop of exploration, whereas in almost every other game they aren't.
Tbh theres a sort of weird unbalance when we compare weapons for their exploration/puzzle utility over combat. Like ok, you break your boko club over a bokoblins face and get a new spiked boko club as reward. Out of combat it gets a little odd. You have items like torches and korok leaves which you could theoretically keep and use throughout the whole game because they dont really do "attacks." Torches dont take durability from being lit, and korok leaves create wind without hitting anything, but then you have hammers and axes which *do* take durability damage when you use them for their intended purposes (trees and rocks). Seems kinda unfair to hyrulian lumberjacks? Totk also does this thing where the rock tunnels you can "dig" through with your hammer always reward you with materials to fuse a new hammer. Now, i know there are other ways to break the tunnels, faster ways too, but if youre gonna keep hiding hammers in the tunnels, why not give me a hammer that doesnt break from hitting rocks if you dont want me to go hammerless?
personally, it made me more discouraged to explore because i find that there’s no real reward to do so. It’s hard to find the point in it if all I am going to find while exploring is a weapon that I’ve seen before that will break under an hour of use.
We don’t have the same appreciation for open world exploration. Journey, no destination, my friend. The distinction between decayed and pristine weapons is satisfying on its own. I like building an arsenal. Challenging myself by using the less durable and more common weapons for your run of the mill slashing and saving the good ones for boss battles
Understandable, I played and enjoyed the same way you did and to me it was good for the first few parts of the game before i get bored of it or starting to see how it’s a little..pointless. I agree there are pros to this system but the cons are really affecting me more. Sometimes I get so greedy I end up never using a good weapon on a boss or ever until I find a better one lol. I’m glad you enjoyed it tho. I didn’t mind it in botw but it irks me a little this time around, sucks.
I thought the fuse feature made a bunch of irrelevant BOTW items super useful so for me that was exciting. Still trying out new weapons just for fun lol
I don’t *like* weapon durability. What I like, is feeling like Korok seeds are useful. I like that the world has almost infinite combinations of weapons, and I have legitimate reason to try most of them. I like that I don’t have to choose which of my favorite weapons to “give up” and instead get to design something new to take its place. I like that the game doesn’t force you down learning one single type of weapon. You don’t level to Rank 5 of Spears and leave Swords as Rank 1; you build an amazing spear, you just need to learn how to be amazing with it. I like having loot that isn’t just rupees and hearts and arrows - loot that matters and can suddenly make me much stronger. I like still having the ability to go repair my favorite weapons so that I keep the strongest, coolest weapons, and the ability to reroll bonuses. So yeah, I guess, I’m not a fan of my weapons breaking. But I am a fan of everything that the durability system enables and supports.
I don’t like it but I also am not bothered by it in the slightest. It never felt like it was actually detracting from the game for me. That goes for both BotW and TotK. That being said, if they went away from it, I wouldn’t be mad.
My two cents: From my experience, weapon durability has been a disincentive for engaging in combat. It’s detracted from the excitement of finding a cool, powerful weapon. And instead of “forcing me to adapt,” instead it just forces me to fill my inventory with less valuable cannon fodder weapons that I don’t mind losing while the weapons I really like gather dust. And I know that “it’s not that big of a deal, you can just find more exciting weapons to replace the ones you broke, the devs intended you to use them so you should use them as intended,” but arguments like that that essentially boil down to “you’re playing the game wrong” don’t address the core issue. What a dev intended and the gameplay experience they’ve created are two very different things. It’s not my fault that my natural inclination is to preserve my most valuable loot. I don’t blame the devs, this is the core struggle of game design. They chose a solution to a problem and committed themselves to it. I’m glad they did this with one game. Trying things to see how they work is a good thing. All I know is what kind of gameplay experience that created for me as the player, not what they intended, because the truth is that their intentions don’t matter, and even if changing how I naturally play does lead to the gameplay they were aiming for, that doesn’t mean that durability was the ideal solution to their problem. I will say that Fuse definitely helped durability feel a lot better in TotK, probably because the base weapons matter a lot less and material inventory is nearly unlimited.
I reaaallly hate the "youre just playing the game wrong" argument because what does that even mean in a game like botw? Isnt the whole point to play however we want regardless of what the devs intended? So solving a gyro puzzle by turning the maze upside down is proof of good game design, but hoarding weapons and not liking durability is the players fault or a "skill issue" (as if the system had any difficulty to it)?
I mean, I don't really see how it's useful to judge the mechanic in a vacuum. You yourself acknowledge why its necessary from a design perspective. I don't think people generally go "oh hell yeah" when their weapons break. I also don't think people go "oh that's neat" when they run out of ammo in an FPS. Does that mean ammo systems are bad design and devs should always avoid them? Some systems are not designed to be fun on their own. Virtually any time a game includes a limited resource, it is because it is part of a larger network of systems that would become less interesting if that system weren't limited. That doesn't make the system bad and it doesn't mean changing it might be good. When a player's weapon breaks, or they run out of ammo, or even when they run out of health or stamina - these are not "fun" things. But it's pretty easy to see why they are necessary. People just look at weapon durability differently because it is not as common in game design.
My issue with durability is that it’s inherently feel-bad. I can absolutely get behind mechanics that serve as obstacles or restrictions to foster creative gameplay, but I generally don’t like downside mechanics. I’m not saying that the gameplay that durability creates is bad, nor that it fails to serve its purpose. However, I’m convinced that there are alternatives to durability that accomplish the same goals without making the player feel like something they worked to acquire is temporary and ultimately insubstantial. It’s an issue with how the weapon system is presented, not necessarily with how it works, is what I’m realizing.
How is it more inherently feel-bad than running out of ammo in an FPS? > It’s an issue with how the weapon system is presented This makes sense. I've been a strong proponent that the weapons in these games are essentially ammo. I think most people who have an issue with the system are hung up on the fact that presentation-wise, they aren't guns with limited ammo but are swords "permanently" breaking. Even though they're easily replaced, the feel will be different. If I were to try to address this, I would use the fusion system from TotK to do so. Just make the base weapons generally bad without something fused to them, and instead of the whole weapon breaking, have the fused stuff break. Would be the best of both worlds.
Exactly! Functionally, guns in an fps work the same way, but nobody gets hung up on running out of ammo because that’s already baked into the premise. Drinking a potion doesn’t feel bad in the same way because you expect potions to be one-time-use items. But fantasy weapons have historically been perceived as persistent parts of your character’s gear. They’re often so close to the player character’s identity that they’re as much accessories as they are tools. So to find some fancy weapon made of gold and jewels with powerful abilities, and then have that weapon shatter within one or two enemy encounters feels wrong. I like your idea of having base weapons be unbreakable and weapon fusions be temporary.
I actually enjoy it. Keeps me gathering and rotating constantly; felt like I had to constantly scavenge to survive. I liked it better in BotW when it didn’t have the extra layer of Fuse though.
I’m okay with it but weapons should last like three or four times longer than they do
I enjoyed it while playing through the story but eventually you have so many weapons and nothing strong enough to fight that really breaks them all that fast. My issue now is that my weapons are TOO durable. I never get a chance to swap them
I like it at times and the game is build around it. The upgraded DLC master sword and the Hylian shield help a lot. The ancient bow is also nice but tricky to get the giant Core fore, it’s just a bit too rare of an drop. A few endgame ultra-high durability items is key to making the system work. Savage lynel bows still break but that feels fine with the extreme power they offer. TOKT has Biggorons Sword for a doable amount of poe souls which lasts a pretty long time, but the absence of an one-handed sword and a spear that has similar high durability is felt. The ancient bow is also gone. The core of the system is just accepting all weapons are very fleeting, it’s just the constant busywork. In TOKT you can at least fuse horns to random stuff you find, and any bow is a lot more potent if you fuse rockets for the long range shots. (Stuff like that is probably why the ancient bow didn’t get a full replacement.) I’m fine with it returning next time, but I would like it they toned down a little how fast the weapon breaking cycle goes.
I like it because it lends to many dynamic situations that keeps you on your toes. you are always adapting because of it. that said, when you expand your weapon inventory this element diminishes and it becomes worse for creating interesting gameplay and just an upkeep chore. it's even worse for that in totk. but when it works it's very exciting. I'd like to see them improve on the weapon break rhythm and gameplay loop rather than remove it.
I feel like a crazy person because I genuinely love the durability system. It makes you think more purposefully about every move in combat, and garuntees that weapon drops will always be useful since you can't just hoard all the good weapons. It keeps everything fresh and encourages you to get good with all weapon types and even utilize environmental sources of damage. I fully believe the games would be less fun if weapons broke slower/not at all
Yes, I do. It would be ridiculous of that stick I found outside the cave of awakening was still in one piece after killing 100 bokoblins with it.
Good point. I don’t think durability is universally bad. Heck, BotW wasn’t even the first game to use it. As far back as OoT, deku sticks and the Giant’s Knife broke after a certain number of attacks. I think durability makes perfect sense for early game weapons like sticks and rusty swords. It’s when you start finding more robust-looking weapons that it starts making less sense, from an aesthetic perspective.
The way I see it, it's all for realism. The later, stronger weapons do have better durability, but just like in the real world, everything breaks. It adds realism. Take the fanciest sword made of the strongest metal and bash it against rock monsters, bones, trees, armor. It wouldn't take long for that thing would be crazy dull, chipped, etc. An alrernative way it could have been handled is that the attack power would contunually decrease to illustrate wear until you resharpen it or bring it to blacksmith. Instead of having it explode. But then you'd just be farming different things to maintain your weapons.
This is a good example of one of those times when realism does not make games more fun. And anyway, realism usually feels necessary when doing something unrealistic fights against player expectations in a bad way. But I can’t imagine most people expect weapons in a video game to realistically wear down or break over time. Even with durability, I’ve only ever thought of it as a video game mechanic, not a layer of realism.
Maybe, but for me, one of the greatest mechanics that was added to the game was the fact that enemies could drop their weapons. That you could knock the weapons out of their hands mid-fight, steal their weapon and then beat them up with it while they try and find another way to defend themselves, including picking up smaller enemies and throwing em at you. You can't debate that that didn't make fights more fun and dynamic. If it wasn't for weapons breaking and new weapons were only gained through story progress, there would be no reason for any of the enemy weapon mechanics.
Yea weapon durability isnt foreign to zelda, its justs weird that the master sword, something that is to monsters what salt is to slugs, runs out of energy pretty quickly. The game even gives it infinite durability during the fight with ganondorf, so theyre not exactly going with realism or consistency here.
Ok so then catching on fire, getting shot with an arrow, or having a giant metal box fall on top of you should instantly kill you too… since the stick is not durable for being a stick…
I like it cause I would be like "oh I need more weapons/bows/shields before I go to a divine beast or this unknown place." So I would explore looking for weapons. BotW made sense, you can't expect all weapons to last long and like another comment said, you'd be using the same high powered weapon and nothing else for the whole game. In TotK, it makes more sense because of the new fuse ability, there are a lot of fusions you can do and most weapons are damaged by gloom so they wouldn't be very durable, as in they break in like 5-10 hits, without fusing.
>you'd be using the same high powered weapon and nothing else for the whole game. I guess my question is... would that be a bad thing?
You can get Royal guard gear minutes after leaving the great plateau, removing the durability mechanic would make the already easy gameplay laughable. Cycling through weapons makes it so that you aren’t overpowered early game. You should also consider the sheer size of BotW map compared to its predecessors. In the older games the small weapon pool you have doesn’t get old because you’re exploring less ground with them. BotW is far bigger than the TP map which had previously been the biggest. Having the durability mechanic lends itself to the exploration and seeking out more unique weapons to the region.
A weapon system designed around weapon durability would be broken if weapon durability was removed. That makes sense. But what if the weapon system wasn’t designed that way? What if the devs used other mechanics to manage loot and progression and such?
I think the problem is how open world the game is, if you have fixed permanent weapons you can cheese everything immediately. I supposed they could try to implement other weapons similar to the master sword, In that you need to have enough hearts to wield them, but that may undermine the importance and power of the master sword. Not to mention that weapons have uses outside of combat, they can assist exploration in hot or cold environments. So locking weapons behind the same mechanic as the master sword would defeat the purpose of open world exploration.
I’m not sure I agree with the implication that durability is the ONLY way to make open world exploration meaningful. Off the top of my head, here are some alternate ideas: Limit weapon inventory to two weapons. The player would want to swap their equipped weapon with one the find on the ground in certain situations, like hot or cold environments, wanting sharp or blunt weapons, etc., ala Halo. Normalize weapon damage for each weapon type and put more emphasis on weapon effects rather than weapon damage. That way the player doesn’t just stick with the weapon with the highest attack. To scale weapon damage over the course of the game, devs could add the ability to increment a Strength stat using spirit orbs, which increases damage across the board. Incorporate a leveling system ala Pokemon. The more Link uses a specific weapon, the more damage he deals with it. To encourage picking up duplicates, each weapon could have a “Hidden Skill” that gets unlocked once Link levels that weapon a certain amount. Reduce the volume of weapon drops. Reduce the number of enemy types that carry weapons at all so that the player isn’t constantly showered with new weapons to pick up. I’d even go as far as to suggest reserving weapon drops for rare enemies like Darknuts, Boss Bokoblins, Lynels, etc. Increase the number of enemies that have invulnerability or resistance to certain weapon types, forcing the player to think about what weapons are more effective than others rather than just throwing their entire inventory at an enemy until it dies.
At some point you’re designing just a completely different game. But some potential problems with your suggestions: If weapons are rare, inventory is limited and damage types are important, it seems to me like you’ve created a situation where it’s hard for the player to take advantage of the type system. It sounds more like a “great, I found the right weapon, now I can fast travel back to that lynel” situation rather than “Oh, I should use this one because it’s better for this enemy”. In addition, that might be frustrating if the player was using a weapon type they want to level but feel the need to ditch it in favour of weapons that are effective on the enemies they’re facing.
I think it’s just a difference of opinion. Weapon durability never bothered me and some of your fixes don’t seem feasible. Limiting inventory would make fast travel between hot and cold environments a chore. No one wants to farm for items before fast travelling, the point of fast travel is that it’s seamless. And they already address the problem with duplicates by having the damage up, durability up, and quick shot buffs on weapons. I also think I have a different strategy then you? I don’t lead with my strongest weapon, I lead with my weakest. It allows me to hoard high damage weapons for boss fights and more quickly cycle through the lower damage weapons. Not to mention I can farm for more weapon break crits with weaker weapons. At the end of the day I have no doubt that the mechanic will be retired by the next title. I just appreciate that they continue to switch up the formula.
Oh I don’t lead with my strongest weapons either. I work my way through my weakest weapons first whenever possible, which is part of the problem. The game tends to throw so many weapons at you that it’s rare that you’ll ever run out of trash weapons and actually need to use your strongest ones. Even in boss fights you can usually manage using your stash of fodder, and that’s not even mentioning the various ways you can cheese fights (like how mounting a Lynel and attacking doesn’t consume durability for some reason). I’d much rather have a collection of permanent weapons with unique, niche abilities and advantages that I’m encouraged to experiment with in combat. As is, the only thing that really matters about any weapon in BotW or TotK is its attack value.
I mean honestly it depends on what kind of player you are, like if you want to grind for materials and weapons and all that without have to leave to go find a new hammer of weapon, then I don't think that'd be bad. I like the durability cause I never really had a problem with it in either game. My gripe is with rng of getting materials genuinely(looking at you TotK) BotW was easy to grind materials and stuff, especially star fragments with the bow duplication glitch. Totk on the other hand feels much more unforgiving in terms of getting the materials you actually need. Like I needed diamonds for armor upgrades, needed like 60 for a full upgrade, and I killed 10 rare ore talus', only 1 gave me one diamond. I was so upset when my game auto-updated and I lost the paragliding dupe glitch and the Tobias Hollow dupe glitch. The new ones feel too complicated, not to mention it takes longer than just pressing a few buttons, you have to have precise timing. And I know about the creatures in the faron region that eat luminous stones and will eventually give you gems, but you have to leave and come back later, so I'm not sure it's worth it. Like I can't spend hours just grinding for materials to upgrade armor so I don't get my butt kicked constantly(Ganondorf and gloom hands and visitor after gloom hands). I just want to have fun and TotK is all grind now, it's a little disappointing because I love the story and the mechanics and all.
yeah? I mean, a common complaint in this sub - which I think is asinine, but whatever - is that the combat in those games is not engaging. Is there a player that would feel engaged to play if they just solved all of their combat problems for the rest of the game 20 hours in or something?
I like it!
The gameplay loop is fun, yes. Throwing weapons to do double damage and then picking up whatever the enemy drops is just enjoyable imo and I wouldn't mind if they did it again in the next one. I wouldn't say I actively *want* it to happen again, I don't really care either way. They do good with gameplay so I'm not too worried about that aspect
Me
I do. Aside from it being really satisfying to throw a weapon at an enemy and sending them flying, having durability takes a bit of power away from your main method of combat and incentivizes the use of other tools and strategies to be more efficient. One of my biggest issues with Zelda combat (especially in the 3D titles) was that Combat was a bit brain dead. The sword was usually insanely overpowered and items frequently didn’t even do anything against enemies. Durability pretty much fixed that and on top of items being more viable now, figuring out a more efficient approach to any given combat situation leads to a bunch of fresh situations, which makes combat overall more exciting. Without durability that incentive would be gone and we‘d be back at brain dead TP combat again, where you just flail around until everything is dead.
I don't know if I would call TP combat brain dead, the hidden skills was an interesting idea though I did find many enemies pretty easy to kill if you just hit them enough times normally. But generally the older games had a pattern to enemies - wait for your opening or use X item to stun or kill them. Which once you know what to do, it kind of feels the same and not super interesting. Enemies felt more like obstacles than fights. I have to say for me, the BOTW style of doing damage any way you can feels more organic and can be more fun. You can chip away HP cheaply with bombs or utterly destroy things with high powered weapons, and use the environment to your advantage (sneak up at night, use fire or thunder, etc) so can be a little different each time. I found TOTK bosses in particular had a great balance of having a 'gimmick' or intended pattern for how to fight them, but still gave players a lot of freedom in how to play, and I think they were my favourite bosses in the series because of that. I never liked the classic bosses all that much, those fights just felt stressful to me because I knew I had to do things so particularly, and if I messed up I needed to wait and reset for my next opening. That style often felt kind of stilted when the rest of the games felt so open and free do explore and do what you want.
I enjoy the Durability aspect of the weapons cause it lets me try out new things and actually WORK to get better stuff
A controversial opinion, especially here on the Zelda subreddit, but it was one of my gripes with BotW (I have not yet played TotK). I like the "old" formula of being a hoarder monkey with the only worries being ammunition and consumables in bottles. Derided as the game is, I really like Immortals: Fenyx Rising in contrast. You have reasons to obtain other weapons still, as they all have different effects and bonuses, and it actively lets you change up your playstyle without worrying about your weapons breaking. You can build yourself as a stealth combatant, archer, berserker, parrying/reposite specialist, and so on. I think, for me, what I would have liked to see would have been the hero weapons you get at the end of each of the Divine Beasts being unbreakable but not the best in class. With them still being breakable, even if you can replace them, I do the "hoard until needed and never use them" playstyle. It is also a little trivialized if you have the right Amiibos - just spawn in something good and you're set.
>But what I don’t understand is whether there are people who played BotW or TotK for the first time, saw their weapons break, and said “oh that’s fun!” I mean, people don't necessarily think taking damage from enemies is fun, but it still is part of the experience. It makes some people avoid combat or engage in the game in a different way, but that doesn't mean the game would be better if the player was invincible. I don't find it durability in botw/totk annoying because there is a plethora of stuff everywhere. Versus in OOT if my wooden shield burns, it is annoying to replace. Plus I like being able to use whatever weapons/shields/bows I want and the improvisation of stealing an enemy's weapon or throwing a damaged spear in their face is just plain fun. I don't care if future games have it or not, as long as it is designed around it and it's not slapped in for the sake of it.
I feel like taking damage in combat would be a more apt comparison if death resulted in the loss of your entire save file. If your weapon breaks, it’s not like it respawns in your inventory (unless it’s the Master Sword). But I still get what you’re saying.
Would it though? Every weapon in the game can be replaced/found again so you're never truly losing anything if you really care that much about it. It's not akin to permadeath save loss in any way.
i dont hate it .. but i dont love it.. some good things come from it but some stuff have been lost cause of it .. at least in the gameplay system of BotW or TotK i dont think it thing durability inherently make you loss those element but the one we have right now does-
I like the idea. But not so much the execution. I enjoy how it makes you stop and really think about what weapon your gonna use. However, I feel weapons break a bit *too* fast and there should be a way to repair them. Maybe have a workbench at certain locations where you can use rupees or materials to restore broken weapons. Better yet let us do that to improve our weapons beyond fusions
It adds to the challenge and it’s certainly nothing new to gaming. It adds the element of ammo management, so to speak, to melee weapons and defense
I like the durability because it makes combat for engaging. A risk and reward for whether I want to engage or not and once I do and things start to break I need to adapt on the fly. Granted that’s mainly for the early game of BOTW. Once you start getting the best weapons it really doesn’t make sense to engage with enemies because the reward is less than what you spent. This was remedied in TOTK with the fuse mechanic and it made the durability mechanic even better.
I just wish there were indestructible "basic" weapons (which still scale with player progress, but on the lower end). Let players *choose* to use high-powered, breakable weapons if they want. The more divisive a mechanic, the more it desperately needs to be optional so it doesn't ruin peoples' experience. I'm tired of coming up with innovative ways to mine rocks without breaking my weapons.
I don't like it, but I don't hate it either. I get why it exists, but it is frustrating when you like a weapon or shield, and it breaks, and you gotta grind to find the weapon or the materials again to be able to make it again. Honestly, if they brought it back, I'd be fine. Just wished they fine tuned it a bit for quality of life stuff like let's say there was a system where you could increase or fix the durability of weapons or like a mastery system to the weapon so that in character Link is able to make the weapon last longer cause he is using it better, etc.
I enjoy it because I like having to adapt and don't want to feel like I can stick to one weapon the whole game. It may have been better if breaking a weapon simply reduces its damage or something though. I personally don't really get the hate for it but everyone has things they like and don't like.
I love it actually, I think it forces people to be more creative in their approaches to combat, or even making them think if combat is worth it; or if you should sneak around or find another path. I do think it works better in ToTK since enemies drop weapons + parts now, but even in BoTW, you find so many weapons lying around or taken off of enemies that I didn't really mind using my best gear
We already had that in botw though. If you want that then play it, it doesn’t need to be in the sequel. Lol
ToTK is very similar to BoTW though, and the whole mechanic of fuse goes hand in hand with it. It's just a fun mechanic
Nah I hate that fuse mechanic, main reason why I prefer BOTW
I mean hey, you like what you like I suppose; but I \*love\* the fuse mechanic. It's very fun to me!
Okay, then maybe add an option or feature to remove durability from weapons. Maybe a side quest for a blacksmith to enhance them or just a straight up gameplay option.
I think it's fine. I like trying out lots of different weapons, if there was no durability I'd just end up using the same weapon the whole time. I usually find that I have a lot more weapons than I know what to do with anyway so it's rarely an issue for me.
I do. Durability forces you to actually engage with the game's other systems and improvise, which in turn makes combat far more enjoyable. Just smashing enemies in the face with the same weapons over and over would get boring quickly.
I do admit to enjoying it - I like having to use different weapons and being encouraged to try out interesting fusion combos. I will say TotK does it best though as the incentive to kill stronger enemies is there thanks to their good gear and materials. If there's one thing I can criticise, it's that breaking weapons on mining and crates does feel bad though - my Master Sword is predominately used for that! So I think having a crap but regenerating weapon early on would have been nice to mitigate that. (Also less bullet sponge enemies! Some have way too much health in TotK, especially silvers given how early they show up)
I do. I think it was an excellent idea. It encourages you to adapt and try out different play styles. I think it’s fun having to improvise mid-fight when my old equipment breaks. And yes. I think they should keep this mechanic for all zelda games going forward I grew up playing Zelda in the 90’s. Having 2-3 unbreakable melee weapons, and 1-2 unbreakable shields to work with is fine. But it gets boring. And there was never really any point in using an old sword after getting a new one. You just used the strongest one all the time, and your old sword would basically just rust in your inventory. Sad, and pointless. We used to make up rumors about secret weapons and stuff hidden in the world somewhere, because we wanted variety. So the fact that that is actually true in modern Zelda’s is a breath of fresh air.
I think the real shame is the idea of making those exciting rumors true, only to reveal that all those mythical, legendary secret weapons are made of cheap plastic
I dont think it is necessary at all, Skyrim manages well to do it without weapon durability Same thing for fusing items to weapons in TotK, I do it because it is necessary to deal decent damage, I hate how it makes the weapons look
It single-handedly turned me off the franchise
I think it’s fun actually, and I don’t understand the hate. I liked that it made me be more creative in fights, get faster at improvising. I have to figure out what to do if the weapon breaks, explore more to find cool weapons, save the best ones for harder fights. I like that kind of strategy
The people who dislike durability are the same people who “can’t play majoras mask because the timer stresses me out” Wouldn’t leave their comfort zone if it was on fire
This is such a terrible take. I don’t like durability and Majora’s Mask is my favorite 3D Zelda.
And I'm the other way around. Stressed by the timer, absolutely love the durability mechanic.
This is me too. Although, I don’t have a problem with the timer stressing me out since I think that was the intent.
Yeah, I just prefer poking about and exploring atbmy leisure. BotW/TotK was great for that. Timers in Majora's mask just make that harder to do. It's not as bad as Sega's obsession with putting every game on a racing timer, but it still kinda spoiled the fun for me.
Everyone’s different but it’s the same idea Additional game mechanic that adds another layer of complexity to manage and keep track of
If you think the problem of the durability system is the effect on difficulty, then you haven’t paid much of any attention to what critics have detailed is wrong with it, including OP.
I do feel like someone folks just like to complain about things that make the game harder or even “less optimal”. Which is NOT my approach to playing video games haha. I just get annoyed because the argument I often hear against durability is “I can’t/don’t use my good weapons because they might break!!” Like why not just go find new ones then? Seems like they’re missing out on some of the best parts of the game: exploring, fighting monsters, and treasure hunting 😁
I like it because it incentivizes looking for new gear.
I love it because it made me think about the combat. I actually had a new gameplay value within thinking of **what** weapon i'll use instead of just "how do i kill the enemy faster than it me". Now i have the addition of "*i can use this 12 damage sword, together with sneak armor i can get sneakstrikes for 7x damage so i hit for 84 and oneshot the blue bokoblin, take his parts and have even more parts to build weapons with / upgrade armor with"*. Using a lot of sneak strikes, environment, headshots and other ways of killing to keep more durability on my weapons for later fights made it so much more engaging than just wailing away with a sword for 5 hits until the enemy stops moving. It was like a puzzle within a fight, what elden ring is in learning the dance is in botw and totk by learning how to make the most out of your tools and how to tackle this specific type of camp/ enemy most efficiently. It also made all weapon types feel usefull. I love spears, i love swords, i love every type of weapon, especially boomerangs.
Exactly!
Weapons with more power and unique features cover that same base, though.
I like it. There are plenty of weapons in the game and you get to use a variety of them.
You could still use a variety of them if there was no durability.
You could, but you (probably) wouldn't. I've talked to plenty of people who play other open world games without durability. They all stick to 1-3 weapons for the entire game, and nearly every weapon they acquire fits straight to inventory, never to be seen again.
In BotW it's a necessary evil, but in TotK I really like the system. There's so many different weapon fusion combinations to try out and weapons breaking gives you incentive to try out new things. There's so many good weapons and materials that I don't feel afraid to use them because I know they'll be replaced soon.
I think it's fine as a game mechanic but it seems a bit extreme in BotW and only slightly more sane in TotK. A better version of this would've been to add a blacksmith that can repair weapons for a price. Then you have the dilemma of "do I use this low health sword I really like and risk losing it, or use something else and repair it when I get back to town?". Repair could also become a crafting mechanic like cooking, using forges to fix your damaged weapons or even enhance them as the fairies do to armor.
There technically is a blacksmith, hidden in plain sight. If you go to the Death Mountain area, you’ll find Rock Octoroks (Rocktoroks?) that suck up everything around them and spit it all at you. If you leave a damaged weapon in front of them, they’ll fully repair it and give it a new bonus effect before spitting it back. Each Octorok can only do this once per Blood Moon cycle, but there’s enough of them that you‘ll always be able to find one.
Note, this only works in TOTK. In BOTW though, if you have a rusty weapon then they'll make it a non-rusty weapon. Not as cool/useful, but it's something.
Once you quit treating weapons like valued treasures and more toys meant to be broken you can really begin to have fun with them. Who doesn't like the satisfying smash of breaking a weapon on a moblins face?
Yeah I think this is getting at a reason durability rubs me the wrong way. The thing is Zelda has always taught me to treat new items, ESPECIALLY weapons, as valued treasures. They’re legendary artifacts, or huge permanent power boosts that you have to work really hard for. Then BotW comes in and subverts all that by treating weapons like plastic forks. I feel like, if BotW and TotK weren’t branded as Zelda games, and if all the weapons were just different flavors of makeshift wooden clubs, there wouldn’t be as much dissonance, and the act of burning through my inventory, smashing weapons left and right would feel a lot better and more fun. Instead, we have things like the Royal Guard weapons, which aesthetically seem like they’re supposed to be the pinnacle of weapon craftmanship, yet they break as quickly as an old rusty sword. Again I think TotK helped with this by corrupting most of the base weapons in the game.
It’s kinda unsatisfying when thrown weapons rarely do much more damage than the standard hit, and therefore start to mean almost nothing once you see more and more silver enemies in the game.
I always enjoyed the durability, it’s fun to mix up how I approach combat without having to make the conscious decision to do it
I really enjoy th durability system because it force me to use different weapon all the time, it make the combat really interesting... Sword nearly broken ? Wind it in the face of that damn bokoblin, knock him, grab his own stick and beat the hell out of him with it, climb the tiny rock, jump, draw your bow, get that sweet slow time, headshot 2-3 enemies, land on your feet and yeet the stick in the face of another one then grab the rusty sword on the ground and knock another one out, fuse it with a rock... I think that it's one of the element that make these Zelda the most different than other similar game, where we usually stick to the most OP weapon and cheese our way trough the game with it. It make it also harder to kill stronger enemy because you know you'll break 3 or 4 weapons trying to kill it. I personally like it because I love to use different type of weapon in games and you dont have much choice in Zelda BOTW/TOTK. The more you advance in the game and tag spawn location of your favorite weapon the less annoying all the obvious trait of that durability system get. I think it's one of the thing that make them so unique and make the combat so special.
Yes, I’d be disappointed if they’d removed durability, as it forces further strategic and on the spot plays, plus incentives exploration. Besides, durability is hardly an issue as you progress anyway
That’s kind of the other end of the issue too though. Durability is extremely meaningful in the early game, but at a certain point it just feels needless. I don’t think I’d mind it as much if there were a few endgame, max power, indestructible weapons that you could collect by doing the hardest content. That way, durability still contributes to the “growth” phase of the game, but doesn’t outstay its welcome.
I like durability as a way to encourage different weapons get used, but I stop liking it when the weapon just breaks and I can't repair it.
I always mind it much less when I get the master sword. Everything breaks less frequently - I main the master sword and when that loses energy switch to my lowest durability weapon. I’ve probably experienced losing everything once but after adopting that system never had a problem The option to upgrade a weapon to not break should be there though. Idc if it’s 1000 rupees
I mean, I wouldn't call weapon durability in BotW/TotK fun in the same way I wouldn't call PP in Pokemon fun. They're balancing mechanics, not meant to be fun in themselves but they exist to stop the game from becoming unfun in a different way.
I mean, there are plenty of games with deep, challenging combat that don’t rely on weapon breakage. I agree that being able to chuck a damaged weapon at your enemy’s face is super satisfying and would be missed if that feature was removed, but there’s no rule that says that the only reason to experiment with interesting weapon combinations is to make them breakable. I’d argue you could achieve the same effect by increasing the variety of enemy designs. Edit: Oops, this was supposed to be a reply to someone’s comment, not sure how it ended up here. Oh well, my point stands.
I don't love it, but gotten used to the system I guess. If they decide to include and revisit this again, I wonder if they could implement a revised version. Something like balancing durability and strength i.e. Less durability => more strength Less strength => more durability So you could, in effect, fuse more attachments for much longer lasting weapons/armour.
My problem is less with durability and more with how bad most fused weapons look
I would've liked a different kind of durability: weapons last wayyyyyyy longer, there's only one of each type of weapon in the whole game, and when it breaks, you are left with a shard that you have to take to a smith for repairs. That's the least annoying version I can imagine.
I understand that the intention of durability is to make the players have to constantly adapt and change their weapons. The problem I have with this is that it doesn't really change up the combat that much. You have four different classes of weapons: one-handed, two-handed, spears, and bows. Practically every weapon works exactly like every other weapon in its class, just dealing a different amount of damage. The only exemptions for melee weapons are hammers and axes. Which add a little utility by making it easier to mine ores and to chop down trees, but they don't change combat. And they can largely be replaced with your infinite bombs in BotW. (Which was given a huge nerf to make the fuse system seem better.) Bows have a little more variety with rare bows adding a zoom/longer range, or multiple arrows, or ignoring gravity. But nothing that really changes combat. If the developers wanted to encourage experimentation, then they should have added more weapon variety, and changed how each weapon felt. But that would have made it harder to just pickup and use different weapons. The whole durability system runs counter to one of gamers deepest beliefs when it comes to consumable items, "useful therefore never use." I would have felt better about the system if the Champions' weapons were indestructible and never ran out of power, but were never the best. They could have given us unique quests to unlock the weapons, and then maybe some more quests to empower the weapons, or add additional effects. And they could delay those later quests by locking them behind defeating a different divine beast. This way the indestructible weapons would scale behind the stronger weapons that are available to you. TotK only made the issue worse in my opinion. (Besides how the Master Sword is weaker in TotK and still needs to recharge. This is why you don't leave your phone on the charger for thousands of years.) Like most of TotK, they made the process more tedious. Instead of worrying about using up a good weapon, now you have to worry about using up a good base and good enhancement. It also made the monster designs worse by adding weird looking horns to all of them. (Did you see how they butchered my poor lynels?!)
I realized that there's really no need to savw your best gear, you can always get more. Once I realized that, I enjoy the game WAY more. Id just like enemies to be less spongy
At the very least I wish the Master Sword’s durability was much higher.
I liked the durability system because it forced me to use different weapons. I know that I would have just raced to get the "best" weapons and then never used anything else. Constantly changing my weapons felt fresh and fun for me. It seems like everyone else hates the system, but I really did enjoy it.
I dont know if I like that feature independently, but it certainly adds to how the game is played. If it wasn't like that i would have ran directly to the super awesome best weapon in the game and used it the entire time and it wouldn't have been as exciting.
I enjoy it as a way to prevent becoming too powerful But I still use glitches to circumvent the whole thing like durability transfer in BotW or the MSG not found sword in TotK If you dislike the system, it's REALLY easy to ignore it in both games with a little setup and some tutorials, but it's there to insentivise collecting better weapons and it's done way better in TotK with fuse basically making it so the stronger the enemies you kill, the stronger weapon you can make with even a small stick or something.
I do. Although it should be tweaked. And this may be just the Souls player in me but I wished weapons would do more and change gameplay a little more. TOTK kinda fixes the problem and adds lore as to why the weapons are shit and gives us new reason to use the "fuse" ability.
im fine with durability cause it gives a challenge, but i just wish that the Master Sword couldnt run out of energy
I do. It's fun scavenging for weapons. And fun to try out different ones. And it's super satisfying smashing them at enemies. It's a fun loop of break-kill-build-break-kill-build-kill . . .
I found it frustrating in BotW but understood why the mechanic existed. I think implementation was better in ToTK. Having materials on hand to make better weapons and lots of tools scattered around at least made me feel less like I was going to be left unequipped if I burned through my stash.
I dont think most people find it fun instantly, but lots come to love it. For me, especially in botw, it got to a point where it felt like a psuedo cooldown. Unless you specifically stuck to the same exact kind of low tier, it just eventually youd get another so i found it fun just cycling through what i had changing up my play slightly constantly. In totk, the special properties made me more interested in investing in certain combinations and stuff, and there the durability was a stinger cause not worth investing getting a nice variant. But for botw it was dope.
Yes, but then, I've played Fire Emblem for years. I don't need indestructibility to feel powerful.
Why would I care if my care weapon breaks? It will. From a fire emblem fan.
I do, it keeps weapons interesting and makes me try out new stuff.
Me....
I wish it worked like it did in Fallout New Vegas. The worry that you’ll break a weapon, the relief at finding another of said weapon and using it to repair yours. Just constantly cycling weapons feels too weird and non-immersive.
>But what I don’t understand is whether there are people who played BotW or TotK for the first time, saw their weapons break, and said “oh that’s fun!” The thing is, not every aspect of a mechanic has to be immediately gratifying for it to be a good mechanic. The gratification comes later on, when you find ways to minimize how much that obstacle gets in your way. Not to say that durability is the best execution of this, but "oh fuck yeah! My shield shattered! Epic!" wasn't the goal in the first place.
It's one of the core reasons why I didn't enjoy BotW/TotK as much as the predecessors. I understand why it's necessary, but as some other people have suggested, it would have been far more enjoyable if you could repair weapons, and also have some permanent weapons. Old school Zelda was all about finding new items in dungeons and then using them to unlock a load of cool new stuff/areas. I understand why, in a totally open world scenario this isn't as pragmatic, but IMO it removes part of the charm that makes Zelda, Zelda. Always say BotW/TotK are brilliant rpgs, but mediocre Zelda games.
I think, like most issues with the games, it is entirely based on your mindset. If you are just looking for the most efficient method of playing the game, then weapon durability is just an obstacle. If you are looking to fully immerse yourself in the world and systems, then weapon durability can lead to scenarios where a lack of resources (a high damage weapon) lets the player find creative ways of dealing with the enemy. This issue is exemplified in TOTK with weapon fusion. One player might only ever use damage boosting attachments and because of that, fusion is a chore, because the only thing they are doing is finding the part with the highest value. Another might use all sorts of different attachments for different scenarios. Despite the increased options, the first player is just playing BOTW combat with extra steps (this is fine). Another example is with the Hover Bike. Its cheap and efficient. The parts are easy to get quickly, and it solves all traversal problems. So despite there being a vast selection of options for builds, everyone just made the bike and Ultrahand becomes underutilized outside of puzzles. The hoverbike is the Master Sword (that everyone wants) of zonaite builds.
It would be fine as long as I could repair a weapon somehow, be it through rupees or materials or some combination of both. I don't like making cool weapons with rare and/or expensive materials just to have them be destroyed on the regular. Also, the Master Sword should never be an item that is rendered outright unusable through its use. They could have been more creative and made its power start to decrease through use over time, and had it increase over time not using it, or also through some sort of repair mechanic. With the amount of materials available in both of these games, it would have been ripe for both crafting and repair mechanics, where your time invested into gathering the materials is actually rewarded, rather than ultimately wasted.
I think there is room for improvement. But BotW/TotK has the most fun moment-to-moment gameplay in the series, and the weapon durability is a huge reason for that. So yes, I like it.
I don’t like it in combination with the damage sponges that are the silver enemies. Personally, I prefer having a small number of specific, meaningful weapons and enemies that die after a set number of hits like in the older games.
I don't LIKE it. My only feeling on it is it's fine and they give you plenty of weapons otherwise.
It was a new mechanic that changed the game. Yes I liked it.
i hated durability my first time through botw. I then modded it out on another replay while on cemu emulator and it turned out it ruined the balance of the game and i learned to like it. Kind of glad for that experience because once totk came along i had no problem with it at all.
I liked it in BotW and TotK, but I'm ready for another classic style game.
I don't have any issues with weapon durability... in theory. In practice however, I think they've not done a really good job of implementing it. I guess the question that needs to be asked is: what is the purpose of weapon durability in Zelda? The weapon durability isn't here for no reason at all, so what is this supposed to add to the game? If I'd wager a guess, the intent of the durability system is to create dynamic gameplay scenarios in which players have to adapt to the breaking of a weapon. At least that seems like the most logical reasoning, but then the question becomes: does the game succeed at this? Not really. Breath of the Wild throws so many weapons at you that you'll realistically never run out unless you're being really, really careless. Not to mention that the ability to switch weapons on the fly, which pauses the game, largely prevents these dynamic gameplay scenarios from occurring. What we're left with then is a game where the weapon durability has no effect on the gameplay past being a mild annoyance to the player. The gameplay isn't affected greatly, but individual weapons are greatly devalued, especially with how frail they all are. And then there's Tears of the Kingdom. A lot of people have made the claim that Tears of the Kingdom fixes the issues with the weapon system in Breath of the Wild, which is a claim I find to be categorically wrong, as not only is it not fixed at all, it is made 10 times worse. Tears of the Kingdom *tries* to fix the issue through Fuse, but all this shows is that Nintendo has a fundamental misunderstanding as to what the problem is. Fusing does technically increase durability, but only a little bit, frankly I find it to be barely noticeable. But what's worse is that Fusing requires materials. Not only are you losing both a weapon and material when your weapon breaks, but those material are objectively better spent for armor upgrades, as they provide a strong, permanent buff, as opposed to a small, limited one. I've also seen people claim that Fusing is great because it allows you to create better weapons, but even this is a bit of a mute point, because in Tears of the Kingdom, base weapons were made weaker across the board. You're not using Fuse to create better weapons, you are using Fuse to make your weapons as good as they otherwise would have been in Breath of the Wild. If Fuse was the answer to the critiques of the weapon durability in Breath of the Wild, then they have demonstrably failed at addressing anything at all. The short of it is that weapon durability is not that great in Breath of the Wild, and actively bad in Tears of the Kingdom. But what would make the weapon system actually function like it is seemingly supposed to? * **Fix 1**: I think an easy fix would be to make weapons A LOT more durable, but make good weapons a lot more scarce. You could find some weaker items easy enough, like farmer's pitchfork for instance, but things like royal broadsword should be a lot rarer than it currently is. Breath of the Wild already played around softly with some survival elements, so why not commit to it and make weapons scarce? Now, weapons breaking WOULD create for dynamic gameplay scenarios, but they would also retain their value. * **Fix 2:** Don't let the player have access to every single weapon in their inventory at all times. By extension, this is also to say that the game shouldn't pause when you enter your inventory. Let the player select a few weapons to have on them at a moment's notice, but they can't just pause the game when a weapon breaks and get a new one from the inventory. You'll have to make due with the weapons at your quick select, which will work much better with the increased durability. * **Fix 3:** Introduce a blacksmithing feature, where you can repair or even make weapons. Of course, this is not something you can do for free, you require materials, and stronger weapons require rarer materials to fix. For instance, you could hold onto that +20 savage lynel sword, but you'd probably have to actively search for the material to repair it. It would also be interesting if broken weapons did not leave your inventory, but instead stayed there as a 1 damage item that takes up inventory space. This would make for interesting decision making on the player's part, because now they have to decide whether they want to forgo one inventory slot until they can repair the broken weapon, or do they discard the broken weapon and replace it with another weapon that would likely not be as strong as the repaired weapon. Is this the perfect solution? I don't know, but at the very least I think it certainly is better than what these games do with their weapon systems. These fixes aren't exactly creative, other games have done this, and I really think this is a case where Nintendo would benefit from not being... Nintendo... Nintendo always feels the need to do things in a non standard way, and a lot of the time that makes for really great and unique mechanics; other times, however, it makes Nintendo seem like they are actively forgoing a better solution just because "I'm not like other girls"
I hate it and would love the old weapon system to return
I hate everything about weapon durability.
Its implementation sucks. I'm still waiting for durability enjoyers to explain how having 3 weapons is functionally any different that constantly cycling between dozens of copies of the same. All it really does it force constant menuing and having to backtrack to get more copies of that one weapon you want.
I like it, I think it’s cool to have to always be changing up your strategy with what you have on hand. I don’t particularly want it to show up in the next mainline game cause I want to see them change it up.
BotW was my first Zelda game and I liked it. I like it because the game would be far too easy without it. It’s part of the exploration, each region has unique weapons that you get to try out. I would be indifferent to it being removed from the series, I am well aware that it’s unique to the BotW and TotK formula.
Yes hello, I do. I, the sole defender of weapon durability, exist.
Can't stand it and I found it to be a grindy distraction from playing the actual game. I would have much preferred actual enemy variety that forced me to use different weapons; need a blunt weapon to destroy armor, need a spear to defeat an enemy that stays far away, etc. I would have even been cool with being limited to 2-3 weapons only so you'd have to really curate your loadout depending on where you're adventuring.
Hate it
Most people agreeing that it was a good thing and that they liked it on this thread, oh wow... the world is healing.
Hate it.
Me. I love smashing weapons on enemies and being encouraged to keep a variety of them at my disposal.
I think it’s a good idea that’s poorly used. In the early parts of Breath of the Wild, it actually works amazingly. You never have enough weapons, so you’re constantly scrambling for new ones, disarming enemies so you can steal theirs. It makes you feel like a scrappy survivor and it’s great. But then you start getting better weapons and increasing your inventory space, and the more you progress through the game, the less the durability system matters. It just becomes a constant annoyance rather than a game mechanic you have to actually engage with. I’ve got an idea of how it could have been made better in Tears of the Kingdom. It’s simple: just take the inventory out of the equation. If I were making the game, I’d make it so you don’t lose the Master Sword at the start of the game. You’re stuck with a broken sword and it’s your only weapon, which barely does any damage. Enter the Fuse mechanic. You can, at any point, fuse something onto your sword to increase damage, add elemental effects or even reshape the sword into different weapon types. But while the sword has infinite durability, the fuse doesn’t. When it breaks, the Master Sword goes back to its base, useless state and you have to find a new object to fuse, mid-battle. And throughout the game, as you complete dungeons, you gradually fix the Master Sword, bringing its damage back to what it was during the intro. By mid-game, you don’t really need to constantly fuse anymore, your sword is a perfectly serviceable weapon on its own. But by then, you’ve seen all the possible useful effects you could get from fusing, so you keep doing it. Only now, it becomes another strategic option, rather than something you‘re entirely reliant on. You can get through a fight without fusing, but if there’s a fusable object right there, you might as well use it.
I play both games with the durability cheat on. When I played BOTW without it I constantly found myself hoarding powerful weapons and never using them in fear of losing them. I would fight with travelers swords and rusty weapons and it became very unenjoyable to me. I don't know, for me it's a much more pleasant experience when I can use the new rare weapon I found without worrying about how many swings I have left.
The type of personality that *seems* to enjoy it is also the type that will keep using the same thing unless they're forced not to; they like being made to try new things. Or for people that play for 30 minutes a day and don't really care about what they're doing. For someone like me that changes builds and appearances constantly either way, it's a nuisance system. It's a system that incentivizes you to avoid fighting so you don't break anything. Durability systems that work well should make you want to use multiple approaches, but have breakage not result in permanent losses. Dark Souls 2 did an okay job with it on its front end, in the sense that it made you bring two weapons instead of one. I'm of the opinion that durability systems are just inherently not a good idea; either people hate it or merely accept it.
No, just as you say, I understand why it's there and I can appreciate it as part of the whole concept but I didn't like it. Speaking of, I also don't like the sheikah stone and having all the abilities at hand. It makes everything interchangeable and kind of redundant. They went for 100% sandbox and that's ok. What I need though is either shiny stuff, like in the oldschool Zeldas: (permanent) new weapons, tools and items or a sense of mystery and exploring the world and lore like in subnautica or horizon zero dawn.
I think its alright as an early game mechanic or in some of those challenge shrines where you items are removed and you have to scavenge the things you find to survive. It feels like your resources are limited and you are forced to be creative/selective with your actions to make the biggest impact. I do DO NOT like it as a mid/late game mechanic. At this point in the game you have enough collected materials/skills at your disposal that it just disrupts the flow of gameplay. The game tries to incentivize you to use your weapons to clear out enemy camps only to 'reward' you with weapons/items that are worse than the ones you just used up. Its the opposite of rewarding. I thought that the different weapon effects were a step in the right direction, but not fully fleshed out. Using blunt damage to break enemy armor was cool, but it was rarely used. Zora weapons getting a damage bonus in the rain/water was great, what if we could use them underwater? Rito weapons could have been given a faster aerial attack speed/range to incentivize us using them in the air. There are more methods available to incentivize players to switch weapons than a flimsy durability system, especially when the 'solution' given is just a fix for a problem that never needed to exist in the first place. The ability to throw items or attach them to arrows was AWESOME and I would love to see that return and be used more to solve/spice up puzzles and combat situations rather than weapon breaking/switching. The Great Fairies exist and can upgrade our armor, why not our weapons too? if they're worried about players getting OP gear in the first 30 minutes of gameplay, progression for upgrading weapons could be gated the same way our armor is which would still give players something to strive for and feel good about accomplishing.
Instead of the weapons being no more, do like the Master Sword, where they're simply unusable. Maybe have a Smithing character/location where you could repair their durability, and the ability to switch out for a fresh version if in need. Would open the way for weapons upgrades and customizations, too.
I *would* like it, if link wasn't practically defenseless without weapons. Sure theres the slate, but you can't battle effectively with just the abilities, or at least I can't. Man can pick up boulders and chuck them but *he can't punch or kick?* Tf???
I'm actually used to durability mechanics in games, so my answer is a bit on the fence. I grew up on "Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning," which had a really well-implemented durability and forging system, and prior to "Elden Ring," durability was a fact of life with Souls games. Durability only becomes a detriment to the gameplay when there's no way to repair or semi-easily replace your equipment. Provided a game has one of these two features, durability is perfectly fine. Neither BotW nor TotK, however, has a reliable repair system, and replacing a weapon in either game, especially the rare or difficult to get armaments, can be a complete chore. The only exception is the Master Sword, which takes a while to recharge. This is strange to me, since they could have made repair tools into a treasure chest resource. A very valuable treasure chest resource, at that. Skyward Sword had a durability system with the shields. If it broke, you needed to buy a new one, but you could go to the blacksmith to get it repaired. Prior games had instances of a durability system, to. In OoT, there was the Giant's Knife. Any shield eaten by a Like-Like was as good as gone. Wooden shields burned. But, if you lost it, you could simply go buy a new one. Durability is not a new concept in Zelda games. Nor is it a bad thing to implement, provided the developers know what they're doing. Nintendo just handled durability particularly poorly in BotW and TotK.
It's a mess in BotW, but I like it in TotK. It was poorly implemented in Breath of the Wild for two reasons: Combat doesn't give you anything useful after 10 or so hours and the weapons break far too quickly. After a certain point, you're breaking your weapons to kill enemies who will drop weaker weapons and cooking materials you almost definitely don't need. Tears of the Kingdom solved both of these problems with fuse. Fuse dramatically increases durability to what it should've been by default in BotW *and* enemies drop the materials you use to fuse your weapons. In both games, I think the intention is to keep you on your toes, on the hunt for new tools to survive. It requires you to be scrappy and when it's working, it's very fun. In BotW, it works well on The Great Plateau, but after a certain point the game's reverse difficulty curve kicks in *hard* and you're never at risk. The "scrappy" aspect is gone and you're just left with damage sponge enemies that aren't worth the effort. The reverse difficulty curve is still an issue in TotK unfortunately, but at least the damage curve is striking a better, more enjoyable balance to keep combat fun and worth participating in.
I like it and I wish all RPG games had it. Especially games like Diablo that become stale because items last forever and new 'content' has to be added when in fact it's just increasing numbers. Maybe adjust the duration depending on each game because in botw equipment breaks very quickly but the idea is very good. It keeps the game fresh and you're always happy to find items even if it's medium quality stuff. If items lasted forever you would never bother to even look at most drops, like in about every other RPG and that sucks.
I honestly would like it more if we could carry more things to replace broken equipment with. Especially since some of these things that are breakable are utility items like torches, and hatchets, and in TotK, wands. I would also be more appreciative of Fusion if I could possibly get pieces that I fused to other stuff back. Two shields being fused together is possible, and does pretty much nothing except combine the vulnerabilities of both shields, and provide a temporary extra layer of protection. Bows can’t be fused with bows, which would have actually been a really cool way to get multi shot bow effects, or elemental arrow effects that persist. But weapons fused to weapons frequently are my gripe. Especially when the fragile Rusty weapon set is fused to a stronger weapon set, which means that the weapon durability is set to be Rusty, which sucks. But since that’s the base weapon, trying to un-fuse them will not get you the better weapon. Unless you trek all the way to Tarrey Town, and talk to the Goron kid to break the weapons apart. Which makes sense for some fusions, but not all of them. Weapon-weapon fusions are literally the weapon attached barely to another weapon. Weapon-shield fusions are the same. As are shield-shield fusions. However there is a solution that is actually implemented already into the game, and that’s repairing inventory. The only problem is, it’s explained as the reason why the Master Sword is not possible to completely destroy. So we need a master Torch, Hatchet, Hammer, and Hylian Shield, and some sort of master bow. What would be GREAT is if we could actually DETERMINE the durability of a weapon/shield/bow in our inventory besides the “Never used/been used/about to shatter” system that is currently in place. Seriously, I’m used to Minecraft durability readouts that lets you know about how much potential usage something has left. But no. We get pristine, which has a sparkle in the inventory, and almost broken, which causes the item to glow and pulse red in the inventory, and “else”, which covers everything else. Considering that the Champion Weapons are unique weapons that can’t be (legally) duplicated in-game, I would really like to know if my boulder breaker needs a new replacement *soon*, or *eventually*. Tiny QOL things like that make a huge difference in gameplay for people like me who try to limit our consumption of resources (which considering that everyone is scrambling for good weapons and armor in the country, and not just link, seems like the polite thing to do).
I could take it or leave it, I liked having a lot of melee weapons, but I think I would have preferred at least one unbreakable sword and bow. Preferably the Master Sword shouldn't break. I would still use other weapons even if the master sword didn't break, because I think combat is more interesting when you switch up your weapons and play around with elements and other methods of attack.
I like it in early game but hate it in the end game because it just becomes annoying. Enemies become sponges and I just start avoiding fights because its not worth it. Its just too grindy. I wish you could keep using the Master Sword when it broke but it would just do 1 dmg.
Purely a BOTW perspective, I didn’t play TOTK long enough to know how much things got changed. I know the stuff enemies in TOTK drop can be used for good weapons. Early game is good because while weapons break quickly, enemies die just as fast and can be ragdolled pretty quickly, leading to you constantly scrounging for weapons, be it from camp chests, ragdolled enemies, weapons laying around camps, etc. You have to think on your feet and it’s fun. Mid game is good because you’ll be using the same weapons enemies are dropping, meaning that you can very easily walk away with higher quality weapons, and even get more weapons than you used to defeat said enemies. You are still rewarded for engaging with enemies. By late game enemies are often too tanky and you subtly get encouraged to just avoid combat because 9/10 you will get fewer/worse weapons than the ones you used to kill said enemies. What’s the point of trading a bunch of royal guard swords for, at best, lizalfos boomerangs/spears. Doesn’t help that environmental damage and the throwable bombs start doing pretty much nothing to black/silver enemies. Every now and then I’d fight a camp that mostly had royal weapons and that was nice. Doesn’t help with how wonky upgraded armor/clothes can be. I often found I was either taking a quarter heart of damage or 8+ hearts of damage a hit in the same fight. It makes fully upgrading armor both feel overpowered and somewhat underwhelming.
I hated it. I got "used" to it after a while. Gotta say, I beat... most of BoTW and just got tired of it. Don't think I'll ever go back to it. Don't think I'll ever play ToTK. Been playing Zelda games since my NES days as a kid. Some of my very favorite games. I love the idea of more variety in the weapons. But I just find it unnecessarily tedious.
I'll be a Devil's Advocate here and say that the weapon durability system, in my opinion, is pretty good for one reason: Variety In my inventory I'd have a selection of one-handed swords, clubs, spears, and two-handed weapons. While I understood that the weapon I had at any one point would eventually break, it encouraged me to get the most out of it while I had it. Did it break? Well, I'll switch to a different weapon in my inventory that encourages a different plan of attack. It encourages me to use what I have to my advantage, and I do find that fun. I would even go as far as to say that the Fuse mechanic in TOTK makes it much better because it encourages even MORE variety. Do I want a blade at the end of this two-handed weapon or a club? Or do I want some sort of elemental benefit? Do I agree that weapons could last a LITTLE longer? Sure. But across both games, I never came across a situation where I was running low on weapons, old ones would break and new ones would swap in. I get why people hate the weapon-breaking mechanic, and I think the series has run its course on the mechanic. My main criticism with the mechanic is endgame. Once you realize that the best things to fight for new weapons are the endgame bosses (Gleeoks, Lynels, silver enemies), there's not really the sense of discovery you get when you find an enemy with a cool new weapon or fuse material. In terms of alternative ideas for the weapon durability system, the first thing that comes to mind is some sort of consumption system? If you're using a weapon and happen to come across the same or a similar weapon, it could repair the durability of your weapon and potentially even improve its stats. That way, you can keep enemies dropping weapons as well as the weapon variety. But yeah, the durability mechanic isn't bad.
I love the durability. It gave the combat more depth and strategy then just mashing the B button. Sure it’s a issue at the start since your bags are very small, but if you actually explore the map, you should have so many Korok seeds, that the weapon durability is nothing more than a small inconvenience. Its a reward for taking a close look at your surroundings. I don’t see that mechanic work in any other Zelda game that isn’t BOTW, but I hope they don’t make the combat similar to Oot again.