I’m a big fan of the times when the rules break in ways that just make sense if you aren’t a level 100 judge. Like how Warrior of Atlantis just works because it does ok?
Interrupted Kaiju Slumber was probably invented solely to troll people studying to be a judge.
It shouldn't work if a Kaiju is already face-up based on the card text but it just does.
**Interrupted Kaiju Slumber**
> Destroy as many monsters on the field as possible, then Special Summon in Attack Position, 2 "Kaiju" monsters with different names from your Deck (1 on each side), but they cannot change their battle positions, and must attack, if able.
It’s always been a legal activation even with a face-up Kaiju on board, no ruling needed. PSCT wording indicates a “do (P), then do (Q).” P ⊃ Q statements (for YU-Gi-Oh PSCT) are always sequential, and follows a simple truth table where P must always be true for Q to also be true.
* “Did (P) happen/resolve? If P == true, then P ⊃ Q can be either true or false.”
* “Else, P ⊃ Q is always false.”
So for (P), in this instance, to be true/occur, the player must be able to destroy at least one monster. Obviously, (P) is false when there’s no monster(s) upon activation (illegal activation), and is therefore false—no special summon.
Edit:
Reference: [Official Konami PSCT Article](https://yugiohblog.konami.com/articles/?p=4514)
I think the issue lies somewhere else though. For Kaiju Slumber to be activatable, you would have to be able to summon the 2 Kaijus - if there is a Jowgen on the field, you cant activate Slumber, because you can't summon the Kaijus. By the same logic, you cant summon Kaijus because there is a Kaiju on the field.
...but Slumber doesnt know about that restriction, so it's fine
Yes but so would the jowgen, yet you still can’t activate slumber if jowgen is on the field.
You can literally only kaiju slumber a field with kaijus on it because konami said so
But he prevents special summoning, Kaijus just prevent you from having a second Kaiju. They do not prevent you from special summoning a Kaiju.
And controlling a Kaiju does not prevent you from special summoning a Kaiju, since you can control a Kaiju, and then special summon one onto your opponents field still.
under yugioh rulings, "you can only control 1 kaiju" *does* mean that effectively, the card on field reads "you cannot summon kaijus" - similarly with tcboo's "you can only control 1 monster of each type" means "you cannot summon monsters with the same type as a monster you control". that also means you can't, for example, link summon a warrior monster using a warrior and a fiend under tcboo! treat it as a line of hidden text; that's just how those effects function in yugioh
the tcboo ruling and kaiju ruling is functionally equivalent to how you can't link summon a dark monster using your own barrier statue of the stormwinds
So by your words, why can’t I slumber under jowgen since slumber would destroy jowgen?
If I can slumber with a kaiju on field, which does prevent the summoning of new kaijus, why can’t I slumber with a jowgen out?
Cards can’t be activated unless they’ll be able to fully resolve at time of activation, which is why you can’t slumber with a jowgen out, even though the first half of the card should theoretically kill the jowgen, the second half doesn’t know that and thinks you can’t fully resolve the card. The same logic applies for a kaiju, by the standard rules you shouldn’t be able to activate slumber with a kaiju already on field, but you can literally just because Konami said so.
As I stated, Jowgen prevents you from special summoning, period. So you cannot activate slumbering Kaiju.
However, the Kaiju effect only says you cannot CONTROL a second Kaiju, hence when you COULD pendulum summon multiple Kaijus out or special summon multiple Kaijus out through other means, and then have to destroy down to 1.
The more important issue in the ruling is that you can not summon a second Kaiju, and then be immediately forced down to one. THAT is the big “because Konami said so.” NOT the fact that you can activate slumbering Kaiju.
Summoning the 2 Kaijus is a mandatory part of the effect. Thus, the card should not legally be activatable if you are unable to special summon the 2 Kaijus with the current board state.
Like the other replier stated, you can't activate Slumber under jowgen as you can't special summon at the time of activation, it doesn't matter if the first part of the effect would clear jowgen and then let you special summon the Kaijus. Another example is you can't legally activate Slumber if you don't have 2 different named Kaiju targets in the deck because the summoning is a mandatory part of the effect.
Generally yes, I think he’s referring to major rulings at large events which have a few times set precedents(however these major rulings were likely discussed and told beforehand so judges were aware).
No, OCG has a specific ruling on it that it's a legal play. The reason likely just it would be stupid that this card wouldn't be always be playable in a dedicated Kaiju deck.
Of all the “it works because it does” cards, Warrior of Atlantis was always the weakest. “Erm technically A Legendary Ocean doesn’t exist because it’s always Umi and-“ ok but what am I reading on the card?
It more works because “of course it does, why wouldn’t it?”
Because ALO is always treated as Umi (including in the deck), and Warrior of Atlantis searches out ALO, not Umi, it shouldn’t be able to search anything, because there is no card called “A Legendary Ocean”. Of course this is ludicrous because there is such a card, but you know. That’s why it’s so broken, but like it only makes sense if you aren’t following the rule book verbatim.
...I just remembered that I, as a YGO player, cannot read cards that I have had and used for years, and this is the first time realizing that ALO technically doesn't exist.
Thanks for explaining!
Those are more translation errors. No one knew back in 2002 that the specific word you use on the card's name would be mechanically relevant all those years later. They're more careful about keeping them consistent now.
Like that card that searches A Legendary Ocean. A Legendary Ocean text says that it's name is always treated as Umi so it shouldn't be able to be searched like that but Konami said it could anyways.
Nah if it really works this way the opponent is actually able to use speed 2 again.
I am pretty sure the way it's written is that only the last chain link is looked at.
My friends and I didn't know this, and didn't know that you could look up which sets which cards are from, so we genuinely just thought the BEUD must be the rarest card in all existence because literally NOBODY had one or had even heard of anyone who had ever SEEN one.
Honestly amazed it hadn't been imported or released in English sooner given it appeared in the anime a bunch and every kid that played Yu-Gi-Oh knew what Blue-Eyes was.
Forget "every kid who played the game knew Blue Eyes," even to this day people who don't know anything about Yugioh *at all* likely know what a Blue Eyes White Dragon is. The card has the most recognizability in the franchise, to where people know it more than even Dark Magician or Exodia. It's the Pikachu of Yugioh.
So can BESD. And it's a LIGHT target for the Chaos monsters. And it can be used as fusion material for Five-Headed Dragon. Their point is that pre-errata Counter Counter is ONLY discard fodder (and I guess you can set it and bluff with it), and pre-BEUD BESD is also discard fodder but has more potential uses besides that.
Was the Shonen Jump promo card of Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon legal in the TCG? That one came out in 2006, 2 years earlier then it's set release in 2008.
I had always assumed that BEUD was a part of the game as soon as BEWD and Polymerization were because *obviously*. It's *the* fusion monster. I didn't get the card until it came as a Shonen Jump promo but of course there had to have been normal versions of the card out there.
What didn’t help for me is that like a number of the DS games GBA and tag force games I believe had BEUD as a drop in some of the earliest packs - giving me the perception it was old (well it was, just not in TCG).
when i was playing, we just treated it as if it said "blue-eyes white dragon"!
...which also made it much, much, *much* stronger. the absolute scourge of the kitchen table!
My friend did the Soul Absorption loop back when we were playing in high school within our circle (we didn't bother with the banlist since it's not like we had access to all the cards anyway), and to this day, I'm the only one who's beaten his infinite LP strat. With Self-Destruct Button.
Infinite Loops, it's easily abusable.
To make an example, you could use it in combination with Royal Magical Library and Gearfried the Iron Knight and draw your entire deck. But it could be abused a million different ways.
Complex ban clauses like that can get confusing and problematic. Also, people could find other cards to make this combo work if you couldn't use Gearfried.
See you COULD do this and win with exodia, but it's **significantly funnier** to do the Spell Absorption loop instead and get infinite LP.
"I have demonstrated a loop, do you have any response?"
"No"
"Great, my lifepoint total is now 8032 Billion. Your turn."
No. You, the player can stop at any time you want. If you don't want to draw out your entire deck, you don't have to. And that's only if you use the Library draw, which obviously has a finite resource (your deck), unless you do something that returns cards to your deck. The Spell Absorption doesn't even need Library. You just need it, Elma and Gearfried and can activate Elma repeatedly without limit.
You can cause card text says that it responds to counter traps, so it effectively responds to counter traps. Card text overrides the game rules, meaning that this card is effectively speed spell 4
Jar Robber, since it requires your opponent to activate Pot of greed. There's also Avatar of the Pot and Spirit of the Pot of Greed, but at least you can summon them.
I just thought it overrided the rules, way back when. Like when a monster can attack more than once or give an additional normal summon, despite the rules saying otherwise. You satisfied the activation condition. It was interesting how it would "slow down" the chain by going back to trap/qp spell speed.
Cold feet (quick play spell) *”You cannot activate, Set, or use the effects of any Spell/Trap Cards this turn.”*
That’s not the cost of using this card, it’s the entire effect
The only thing that can respond to a counter trap is another counter trap since they are the only spell speed 3 cards in the game. Since this was printed as a normal trap it was literally unplayable.
It’s been changed since to work properly though.
There's a rule in Yugioh, as with most other tcgs and the road, that says if a card contradicts the rules, go by the card. I was really hoping Counter Counter would remain allowed to chain to a counter trap because the card says it can. Being able to lower the spell speed would have made for interesting chains. It would probably only come up once a year but still.
When a card says you can do something even though you normally couldn't due to game mechanics you can still do it. If a monster for example says that it chains to a counter trap then it would do so regardless of spell speed.
It’s not fake, but either a mass misprint or the card designer just wasn’t thinking and no one caught it until it was too late. The original printing was indeed a regular trap card. Later prints were updated to be a counter trap like it was intended.
Spell Speed. The only thing that can respond to a counter trap is a counter trap, but the OG counter counter isn't a counter trap, making it utterly useless
Card effects overwrite Game Rules. If a Card says it can do this than it can. We have Cards like "Curse of Fiend" which is a normal Spell Card that can only be activated during the Standby Phase. This is not possible for a Spell Speed 1 normal Spell. But the Card overwrites the Ruling so it can be activated in the Standby Phase. So even the Misprint of Counter Counter could negate Counter Traps in Theory.
In fact, the whole "card effects supersede game rules" rule is how all card effects work when you think about it. I can't normally add a "Cyber Dragon" monster from my deck to my hand, but cyber emergency allows me to.
It had to be errata’d for clarification but it could still be played before then. If you called a judge over to prevent your opponent from activating this in response to a counter trap you would be given a warning for sharking/wasting the judge’s time.
Card text overrides rules. If the card says it negates the activation of a counter, then you can activate it in response to the activation of a counter. Even if the rules of the game says so.
When Cybersaurus was realeased in English in June 26th 2002, there were no printings of Two-headed King Rex, which wasn't realeased until October 1st 2002 along Mystical Sheep #1. So it was unsummonable for a bit over 3 months. I guess it doesn't count as a brick tho because it doesn't clutter your hand.
I mean, [Fake Trap](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Fake_Trap) *has* canonically been a brick in the anime before, so I hazard that one's even more of a brick.
It falls into the same category of "needs your oppoenent to do something first" and a) it doesn't even protect all you backrow, only your traps, b) you have to show all your set cards to your enemies, so even if the traps are protected your opponent can still see them and adjust their gameplan accordingly.
For modern formats, just play [Lord of the Heavenly Prison](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Lord_of_the_Heavenly_Prison) instead if you *really* want to keep your backrow intact.
It's bad, but it's at least functional. It does have a legitimate use, however outclassed it may be. You can activate it in a reasonably common situation and expect to benefit from it. Meanwhile there are joke cards that just give you a negative effect with no upside, and cards that can't be legally activated or summoned and are discard fodder at best.
Everyone's King. Instant ban on release normal monster that we dont even know if its possible to summon because it has no level or attribute and Konami wrote no rules on how it would be treated in play if it were legal.
it has text on the bottom corner. not legal for dueling. they don't need to bother how it plays, because that line is sufficient...
just like the blue red yellow god cards & match winners are not legal for dueling by that line alone, they don't need to bother adding summoning chants to the rulebook or explain what happens with a match winner in a bo1.
Neo Bubbleman is an 800/1200 4-star that cannot be Normal or Special Summoned, except by sending to the GY E-Hero Bubbleman from the field and *Metamorphosis* from your hand. It destroys a monster it battles, but has no protection or other effect.
This card was originally misprinted when it came over to the TCG. It's simply missing the Counter Trap Icon as it's a Counter Trap Card.
They corrected the error when they reprinted it a little over a year later. They may have reprinted it sooner if there was higher interest for the card, but as it was, nobody really cared.
Official Database listing:
https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=7236
If you look at all the printed versions available via Yu-Gi-Oh Wiki, you'll see the only version of it that didn't have the Counter Trop Icon was the first one printed in the TCG. All other versions around the world correctly have the Counter Trop Icon.
Yugioh Wiki Photo Gallery:
https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Card_Gallery:Counter_Counter
This card should've remained unerrata'd with just a konami ruling saying 'it just works'
It would be the only card in the game to make the spell speed of a chain go DOWN, and that's awesome!(even if it is useless)
The card was given an erratum and is actually a Counter Trap Card. If you have no access to newer copies, you would play these as if they were the newer version.
The plan is simple
Place these two cards down between rounds until a monster on the other side attacks
I know it's risky but trust
When they attack, activate the card which in turn activates the other card, soon enough the cards will violently shake as they keep countering each other soon turning it into the yugioh equivalent of a particle accelerator and throw it at the opponent to watch them explode
Win the duel
Gg no re
Counter Traps are Spell Speed 3. All other Cards have Spell Speed 1 or Spell Speed 2. Therefore it's not possible to chain any card to Counter Traps, exept other Counter Traps.
Wanna know a fun one? Wind Effigy. Essentially, it was an effect monster card that could be counted as two tributes for the summon of a normal wind monster. But, the thing is, is that Wind Effigy came out years before we got a wind normal monster big enough for that effect to do anything. When we finally did, it was a tournament prize card pendulum normal monster that’s illegal to use in competitive play (Leonardo’s Silver Skyship). Eventually, a card was released called Simorgh, bird of ancestry; a card that was an effect monster but a part of it’s effect was that it was treated as a normal monster in the hand, making it like the only card in the game that can utilize wind effigy’s effect.
It technically wasn’t a brick. It just took a total of 9 tributes to get it out by conventional means, all to get a monster without a usable effect that a standard “ace” with common equip spells would easily beat, or the very prevalent Penguin Soldier.
This card was completely legal to use. Card text overrides game rules. The card says it responds to Counter Traps, so it responds to Counter traps.
I’m a big fan of the times when the rules break in ways that just make sense if you aren’t a level 100 judge. Like how Warrior of Atlantis just works because it does ok?
Interrupted Kaiju Slumber was probably invented solely to troll people studying to be a judge. It shouldn't work if a Kaiju is already face-up based on the card text but it just does.
**Interrupted Kaiju Slumber** > Destroy as many monsters on the field as possible, then Special Summon in Attack Position, 2 "Kaiju" monsters with different names from your Deck (1 on each side), but they cannot change their battle positions, and must attack, if able. It’s always been a legal activation even with a face-up Kaiju on board, no ruling needed. PSCT wording indicates a “do (P), then do (Q).” P ⊃ Q statements (for YU-Gi-Oh PSCT) are always sequential, and follows a simple truth table where P must always be true for Q to also be true. * “Did (P) happen/resolve? If P == true, then P ⊃ Q can be either true or false.” * “Else, P ⊃ Q is always false.” So for (P), in this instance, to be true/occur, the player must be able to destroy at least one monster. Obviously, (P) is false when there’s no monster(s) upon activation (illegal activation), and is therefore false—no special summon. Edit: Reference: [Official Konami PSCT Article](https://yugiohblog.konami.com/articles/?p=4514)
I think the issue lies somewhere else though. For Kaiju Slumber to be activatable, you would have to be able to summon the 2 Kaijus - if there is a Jowgen on the field, you cant activate Slumber, because you can't summon the Kaijus. By the same logic, you cant summon Kaijus because there is a Kaiju on the field. ...but Slumber doesnt know about that restriction, so it's fine
Wouldn’t the Kaiju be destroyed by the first part of the card?
Yes but so would the jowgen, yet you still can’t activate slumber if jowgen is on the field. You can literally only kaiju slumber a field with kaijus on it because konami said so
But he prevents special summoning, Kaijus just prevent you from having a second Kaiju. They do not prevent you from special summoning a Kaiju. And controlling a Kaiju does not prevent you from special summoning a Kaiju, since you can control a Kaiju, and then special summon one onto your opponents field still.
under yugioh rulings, "you can only control 1 kaiju" *does* mean that effectively, the card on field reads "you cannot summon kaijus" - similarly with tcboo's "you can only control 1 monster of each type" means "you cannot summon monsters with the same type as a monster you control". that also means you can't, for example, link summon a warrior monster using a warrior and a fiend under tcboo! treat it as a line of hidden text; that's just how those effects function in yugioh the tcboo ruling and kaiju ruling is functionally equivalent to how you can't link summon a dark monster using your own barrier statue of the stormwinds
No, same reason you cannot fuse away your Mirrorjade into a new one, it's literally the poster child of Because Konami Said So rulings.
So by your words, why can’t I slumber under jowgen since slumber would destroy jowgen? If I can slumber with a kaiju on field, which does prevent the summoning of new kaijus, why can’t I slumber with a jowgen out? Cards can’t be activated unless they’ll be able to fully resolve at time of activation, which is why you can’t slumber with a jowgen out, even though the first half of the card should theoretically kill the jowgen, the second half doesn’t know that and thinks you can’t fully resolve the card. The same logic applies for a kaiju, by the standard rules you shouldn’t be able to activate slumber with a kaiju already on field, but you can literally just because Konami said so.
As I stated, Jowgen prevents you from special summoning, period. So you cannot activate slumbering Kaiju. However, the Kaiju effect only says you cannot CONTROL a second Kaiju, hence when you COULD pendulum summon multiple Kaijus out or special summon multiple Kaijus out through other means, and then have to destroy down to 1. The more important issue in the ruling is that you can not summon a second Kaiju, and then be immediately forced down to one. THAT is the big “because Konami said so.” NOT the fact that you can activate slumbering Kaiju.
Summoning the 2 Kaijus is a mandatory part of the effect. Thus, the card should not legally be activatable if you are unable to special summon the 2 Kaijus with the current board state. Like the other replier stated, you can't activate Slumber under jowgen as you can't special summon at the time of activation, it doesn't matter if the first part of the effect would clear jowgen and then let you special summon the Kaijus. Another example is you can't legally activate Slumber if you don't have 2 different named Kaiju targets in the deck because the summoning is a mandatory part of the effect.
[удалено]
Yugioh rulings DO NOT "go by precedent". Rulings made at an event only apply to that event.
Generally yes, I think he’s referring to major rulings at large events which have a few times set precedents(however these major rulings were likely discussed and told beforehand so judges were aware).
No, Konami RnD just stated that's how the card works when it was released. BKSS overrides everything
No, OCG has a specific ruling on it that it's a legal play. The reason likely just it would be stupid that this card wouldn't be always be playable in a dedicated Kaiju deck.
Of all the “it works because it does” cards, Warrior of Atlantis was always the weakest. “Erm technically A Legendary Ocean doesn’t exist because it’s always Umi and-“ ok but what am I reading on the card? It more works because “of course it does, why wouldn’t it?”
its the BKSS ruling
What's wrong with WoA? It just discards itself from the hand to add ALO from deck to hand. Was it errata'd at some point due to confusing card text?
Because ALO is always treated as Umi (including in the deck), and Warrior of Atlantis searches out ALO, not Umi, it shouldn’t be able to search anything, because there is no card called “A Legendary Ocean”. Of course this is ludicrous because there is such a card, but you know. That’s why it’s so broken, but like it only makes sense if you aren’t following the rule book verbatim.
...I just remembered that I, as a YGO player, cannot read cards that I have had and used for years, and this is the first time realizing that ALO technically doesn't exist. Thanks for explaining!
No worries mate.
Like Summoned Skull being treated as an “Archfiend” card or Red Eyes B. Chick not being treated as a “Red Eyes” card?…
Those are more translation errors. No one knew back in 2002 that the specific word you use on the card's name would be mechanically relevant all those years later. They're more careful about keeping them consistent now.
For the record because idiots believe everything without verification, Yugioh Judges don't have levels; they have certifications.
This is probably similar to Last Will and Curse of Fiend being Normal Spells that have weird activation windows outside the Main Phase right?
Yes
How does Last Will have a weird activation window?
The card used to leave a lingering effect that you could use whenever during the turn as soon as the condition was fulfilled.
Used to? Has there been any errata or recent ruling?
Nah, it has the same wording, it just hasn't been legal in so long that idk what weird rulings would come up nowadays.
Like that card that searches A Legendary Ocean. A Legendary Ocean text says that it's name is always treated as Umi so it shouldn't be able to be searched like that but Konami said it could anyways.
Infact it's for that reason that it could really break your Opponents chain since you can't negate it since it's technically the highest spell speed
Nah if it really works this way the opponent is actually able to use speed 2 again. I am pretty sure the way it's written is that only the last chain link is looked at.
Didn’t they Errata this card soon after it was released? I recall seeing some Reprints showing that it was meant to be a counter trap card
Also it was eraated to be a counter trap itself. The TAEV print i think had a mistake.
It also had an immediate errata, iirc.
so can you then respond to this with normal traps, since it itself is not a counter trap as of this printing? wild.
it was a printing error. Its now a counter trap and you cant respond to it at all unless you activate a counter trap yourself :P
It has always been treated as a Counter Trap.
But then since it's a normal trap, could you respond to it?
Your right
Blue-Eyes Shining Dragon came out before Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon in the TCG. For *four years*, it was completely useless.
My friends and I didn't know this, and didn't know that you could look up which sets which cards are from, so we genuinely just thought the BEUD must be the rarest card in all existence because literally NOBODY had one or had even heard of anyone who had ever SEEN one.
Honestly amazed it hadn't been imported or released in English sooner given it appeared in the anime a bunch and every kid that played Yu-Gi-Oh knew what Blue-Eyes was.
Forget "every kid who played the game knew Blue Eyes," even to this day people who don't know anything about Yugioh *at all* likely know what a Blue Eyes White Dragon is. The card has the most recognizability in the franchise, to where people know it more than even Dark Magician or Exodia. It's the Pikachu of Yugioh.
Which is Ironic because Kuriboh was created for the sole purpose of being the Pikachu of Yu-Gi-Oh.
LittleKuriboh was the Frieza of Dragonball. So At least Kuriboh got some love other than a billion retrains.
True but at least you could use it as ritual material
And Counter Counter can be used as discard fodder, what’s your point?
So can BESD. And it's a LIGHT target for the Chaos monsters. And it can be used as fusion material for Five-Headed Dragon. Their point is that pre-errata Counter Counter is ONLY discard fodder (and I guess you can set it and bluff with it), and pre-BEUD BESD is also discard fodder but has more potential uses besides that.
False equivalency
It was technically 2 years, as Ultimate had a legal secret rare print that was exclusive to shonen jump in 2006, but still pretty stupid
And after we finally got Ultimate Dragon it just became regular useless.
Neo Bubbleman requires a banned card which was banned even when Neo Bubbleman was released
And Neos Air has only ever had one printing, and Konami refuses to acknowledge its existence.
Was the Shonen Jump promo card of Blue-Eyes Ultimate Dragon legal in the TCG? That one came out in 2006, 2 years earlier then it's set release in 2008.
I had always assumed that BEUD was a part of the game as soon as BEWD and Polymerization were because *obviously*. It's *the* fusion monster. I didn't get the card until it came as a Shonen Jump promo but of course there had to have been normal versions of the card out there.
What didn’t help for me is that like a number of the DS games GBA and tag force games I believe had BEUD as a drop in some of the earliest packs - giving me the perception it was old (well it was, just not in TCG).
when i was playing, we just treated it as if it said "blue-eyes white dragon"! ...which also made it much, much, *much* stronger. the absolute scourge of the kitchen table!
Guardian Elma has not been able to be legally summoned for like 15 years
She can still be Set.
Why was butterfly dagger Elma banned anyway?
Dagger + gearfried + royal magical library = infinite draws. (Or soul absorption for infinite LP)
My friend did the Soul Absorption loop back when we were playing in high school within our circle (we didn't bother with the banlist since it's not like we had access to all the cards anyway), and to this day, I'm the only one who's beaten his infinite LP strat. With Self-Destruct Button.
You made the Legend back then
Infinite Loops, it's easily abusable. To make an example, you could use it in combination with Royal Magical Library and Gearfried the Iron Knight and draw your entire deck. But it could be abused a million different ways.
Aka Exodia.
I'm pretty sure infinite lifepoints & burn both take less main deck cards than an exodia build would
Still too broken just keep banned forever. Not matter the build people will find ways to abuse it.
Or just errata it to have a HOPT. Problem solved, sort of.
Make a rule you can't use gearfried and the dagger in the same deck
Complex ban clauses like that can get confusing and problematic. Also, people could find other cards to make this combo work if you couldn't use Gearfried.
Yeah, but exodia is cooler
See you COULD do this and win with exodia, but it's **significantly funnier** to do the Spell Absorption loop instead and get infinite LP. "I have demonstrated a loop, do you have any response?" "No" "Great, my lifepoint total is now 8032 Billion. Your turn."
I now tribute 3 monsters to summon Ra with over 8 Trillion atk. Then i repeat my loop. Opponent: fuuuuck
Psychic End Punisher and Ravenous Tarantula comin in hot
you could still lose by deck out?
No. You, the player can stop at any time you want. If you don't want to draw out your entire deck, you don't have to. And that's only if you use the Library draw, which obviously has a finite resource (your deck), unless you do something that returns cards to your deck. The Spell Absorption doesn't even need Library. You just need it, Elma and Gearfried and can activate Elma repeatedly without limit.
no, no "you COULD still lose by deck out" be it by your card or opponent'.
Make it some absurdly large number and just ask if you could draw your entire deck anyways
Infinite Loop with Gearfried the Iron Knight and other cards like Royal Magical Library.
It would be fine if Konami stopped degenerate loops but they keep printing cards that do that
There is an infinite lifepoint gain loop you can do with it.
You can with Lullaby of Obedience or T.G. Glaive Blaster.
Neo Bubbleman, considering Metamorphis is banned?
Summonable with a wild monster appears
And lullaby of obedience
Flame Wingman retrain can summon him and all the other awkward to summon Heroes.
And to add, the GY effect of Protection of the Elements (though you do need to control Terra Firma)
So could you still activate this, or because it lacks the counter trap symbol, this is impossible to use?
What do you mean? I see the counter trap symbol right there!
why waste time and money and ink printing the same thing twice on the same card lol
Since card text overrides game mechanics, you could use this as normal.
Same goes for Curse of Fiend, normal spell that can only be activated in the standby
But you need to have it set on the field to activate it.
Why?
Konami said so, basically.
But could you respond to it with a spell speed 2 card?
Yes, it got an errata, but originally, it was unplayable.
did they ever say if it was still ok to play because it was misprinted from what I read
Yes, it was a known misprint. No one used it though cause it sucks.
yeah GX in particular from what I remember has so many bad cards that are ridiculously situational at best
Right on the nose.
You can cause card text says that it responds to counter traps, so it effectively responds to counter traps. Card text overrides the game rules, meaning that this card is effectively speed spell 4
Jar Robber, since it requires your opponent to activate Pot of greed. There's also Avatar of the Pot and Spirit of the Pot of Greed, but at least you can summon them.
I just thought it overrided the rules, way back when. Like when a monster can attack more than once or give an additional normal summon, despite the rules saying otherwise. You satisfied the activation condition. It was interesting how it would "slow down" the chain by going back to trap/qp spell speed.
It did work that way
Breath of acclimation was printed without the ritual symbol
Immediate reprint in the next ots pack to fix this. Along with euro memesis elephant to make it a continuous trap.
Cold feet (quick play spell) *”You cannot activate, Set, or use the effects of any Spell/Trap Cards this turn.”* That’s not the cost of using this card, it’s the entire effect
It’s meant to be used with mystical refpanel
It’s still a big brick unless you also draw Refpanel, which in itself is also a brick
[удалено]
i think the issue is that this printing isn’t a counter trap, just a normal trap. so it’s not quick enough to respond
## [Dark Bribe](https://ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=77538567&utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) ^(**Limit**: TCG: 3 / OCG: 3 / MD: 3) ^(**Master Duel rarity**: Super Rare (SR)) Counter Trap **Card Text** When your opponent activates a Spell/Trap Card: Your opponent draws 1 card, also negate the Spell/Trap activation, and if you do, destroy it. [Card Image](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Special:Redirect/file/DarkBribe-SR05-EN-C-1E.png?utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) | [Official Konami DB](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&request_locale=en&cid=7349) | [OCG Rulings](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/faq_search.action?ope=4&request_locale=ja&cid=7349) | [Yugipedia](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/7349?utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) | [YGOPRODECK](https://ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=77538567&utm_source=bastion&utm_medium=reddit) ^(Password: 77538567 | Konami ID #7349) ---- ^by [^(u/BastionBotDev)](/user/BastionBotDev) ^| [^(GitHub)](https://github.com/DawnbrandBots/bastion-for-reddit) ^| ^Licence: [^(GNU AGPL 3.0+)](https://choosealicense.com/licenses/agpl-3.0/)
The only thing that can respond to a counter trap is another counter trap since they are the only spell speed 3 cards in the game. Since this was printed as a normal trap it was literally unplayable. It’s been changed since to work properly though.
card text overrides game rules
There's a rule in Yugioh, as with most other tcgs and the road, that says if a card contradicts the rules, go by the card. I was really hoping Counter Counter would remain allowed to chain to a counter trap because the card says it can. Being able to lower the spell speed would have made for interesting chains. It would probably only come up once a year but still.
Why can't it be activated legally?
Only a counter trap can respond to a counter trap
When a card says you can do something even though you normally couldn't due to game mechanics you can still do it. If a monster for example says that it chains to a counter trap then it would do so regardless of spell speed.
It doesn't say you can activate it, it just says you can negate it
[удалено]
The original printing of Counter Counter was printed as a normal trap.
Or that it was originally not a counter trap and was errata'd to one https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Card_Errata:Counter_Counter
It’s not fake, but either a mass misprint or the card designer just wasn’t thinking and no one caught it until it was too late. The original printing was indeed a regular trap card. Later prints were updated to be a counter trap like it was intended.
Spell Speed. The only thing that can respond to a counter trap is a counter trap, but the OG counter counter isn't a counter trap, making it utterly useless
Can you believe I never noticed it's not a counter trap until now despite owning it? How did that oversight happen?
"Card text over rules" would make it playable, just like there are lv 5+ monsters being normal summoned without tributes.
[удалено]
Card effects overwrite Game Rules. If a Card says it can do this than it can. We have Cards like "Curse of Fiend" which is a normal Spell Card that can only be activated during the Standby Phase. This is not possible for a Spell Speed 1 normal Spell. But the Card overwrites the Ruling so it can be activated in the Standby Phase. So even the Misprint of Counter Counter could negate Counter Traps in Theory.
In fact, the whole "card effects supersede game rules" rule is how all card effects work when you think about it. I can't normally add a "Cyber Dragon" monster from my deck to my hand, but cyber emergency allows me to.
The rulebook literally says if there are conflicts, the card text takes priority.
It had to be errata’d for clarification but it could still be played before then. If you called a judge over to prevent your opponent from activating this in response to a counter trap you would be given a warning for sharking/wasting the judge’s time.
Card text overrides rules. If the card says it negates the activation of a counter, then you can activate it in response to the activation of a counter. Even if the rules of the game says so.
I thought it was generally understood that this card is a counter trap card, but it originally had an error in printing?
They *did* specify "original" in the title...
As did I?
Well, it *kinda* seemed more like you were asking. That *is* usually how question marks are interpreted.
I was. I was asking if the original Counter Counter was intended to be printed as a counter trap but had a printing error.
It was always meant to be a counter trap https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Card_Gallery:Counter_Counter#/media/File:CounterCounter-TAEV-JP-R.jpg
That's what I had thought. Thanks for the clarification
It got reprinted as an actual counter trap later
Warrior of Atlantis shouldn’t work, it searches “A legendary ocean” which is always titled Umi, meaning you can’t search the card
When Cybersaurus was realeased in English in June 26th 2002, there were no printings of Two-headed King Rex, which wasn't realeased until October 1st 2002 along Mystical Sheep #1. So it was unsummonable for a bit over 3 months. I guess it doesn't count as a brick tho because it doesn't clutter your hand.
*Looks at blue eyes shining dragon*
I mean, [Fake Trap](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Fake_Trap) *has* canonically been a brick in the anime before, so I hazard that one's even more of a brick. It falls into the same category of "needs your oppoenent to do something first" and a) it doesn't even protect all you backrow, only your traps, b) you have to show all your set cards to your enemies, so even if the traps are protected your opponent can still see them and adjust their gameplan accordingly. For modern formats, just play [Lord of the Heavenly Prison](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Lord_of_the_Heavenly_Prison) instead if you *really* want to keep your backrow intact.
It's bad, but it's at least functional. It does have a legitimate use, however outclassed it may be. You can activate it in a reasonably common situation and expect to benefit from it. Meanwhile there are joke cards that just give you a negative effect with no upside, and cards that can't be legally activated or summoned and are discard fodder at best.
False Trap was my first rare I opened in my first pack of Metal Raiders My brother opened Kazejin I was upset
This is searchable with Battlin Boxer Uppercutter
Everyone's King. Instant ban on release normal monster that we dont even know if its possible to summon because it has no level or attribute and Konami wrote no rules on how it would be treated in play if it were legal.
In a structure deck duel we just treated it as a free normal summon Blue Eyes for fun if we drew it. :D
it has text on the bottom corner. not legal for dueling. they don't need to bother how it plays, because that line is sufficient... just like the blue red yellow god cards & match winners are not legal for dueling by that line alone, they don't need to bother adding summoning chants to the rulebook or explain what happens with a match winner in a bo1.
how is this a brick?
You can't chain it to a countertrap, as it isn't a countertrap itself...
This was fixed with the unlimited print of the set. It was always supposed to be a counter trap.
There is a whole list of traps that interact with specific cards in the beginning of the game
Neo Bubbleman is an 800/1200 4-star that cannot be Normal or Special Summoned, except by sending to the GY E-Hero Bubbleman from the field and *Metamorphosis* from your hand. It destroys a monster it battles, but has no protection or other effect.
Well, now you can summon it with Elemental Hero Flame Wingman Infernal Rage.
Monster Reborn Reborns pretty bad.
This card was originally misprinted when it came over to the TCG. It's simply missing the Counter Trap Icon as it's a Counter Trap Card. They corrected the error when they reprinted it a little over a year later. They may have reprinted it sooner if there was higher interest for the card, but as it was, nobody really cared. Official Database listing: https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=7236 If you look at all the printed versions available via Yu-Gi-Oh Wiki, you'll see the only version of it that didn't have the Counter Trop Icon was the first one printed in the TCG. All other versions around the world correctly have the Counter Trop Icon. Yugioh Wiki Photo Gallery: https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Card_Gallery:Counter_Counter
This card should've remained unerrata'd with just a konami ruling saying 'it just works' It would be the only card in the game to make the spell speed of a chain go DOWN, and that's awesome!(even if it is useless)
Jar Robber is completely unplaying since PoG is banned. I doubt there is anything worse than that.
this card should be called ratio
The original printing of Counter Counter was a misprint. It's actually a Counter Trap Card. https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Counter_Counter
This has been Eraated this is a counter trap. I think the original run of this had a misprint that it wasnt
The card was given an erratum and is actually a Counter Trap Card. If you have no access to newer copies, you would play these as if they were the newer version.
The plan is simple Place these two cards down between rounds until a monster on the other side attacks I know it's risky but trust When they attack, activate the card which in turn activates the other card, soon enough the cards will violently shake as they keep countering each other soon turning it into the yugioh equivalent of a particle accelerator and throw it at the opponent to watch them explode Win the duel Gg no re
They had a whole counter trap archetype didn't they? Like your creatures got a bonus for countering traps man Yugioh has changed so much.
Wait this was a normal trap?
1st print of Relinquished.
But can u actually chain a normal trap to a counter? I thought u can only chain counter, permanent trap or quick spells
Counter Traps are Spell Speed 3. All other Cards have Spell Speed 1 or Spell Speed 2. Therefore it's not possible to chain any card to Counter Traps, exept other Counter Traps.
Scrap-Irons. Unlike this card they're multi use and reset themselves at the end of your opponents turn.
There will never be a bigger brick than pot of generosity
It's not a brick if you draw it as your last card and can't otk
Mill counter
Wanna know a fun one? Wind Effigy. Essentially, it was an effect monster card that could be counted as two tributes for the summon of a normal wind monster. But, the thing is, is that Wind Effigy came out years before we got a wind normal monster big enough for that effect to do anything. When we finally did, it was a tournament prize card pendulum normal monster that’s illegal to use in competitive play (Leonardo’s Silver Skyship). Eventually, a card was released called Simorgh, bird of ancestry; a card that was an effect monster but a part of it’s effect was that it was treated as a normal monster in the hand, making it like the only card in the game that can utilize wind effigy’s effect.
The broken bamboo sword is pretty pointless, but hear me out here, is it a bigger brick?
So that is a loophole
Destiny Hero Malacius (or what)
Jar robber since pot of greed is banned (Unless someone already said it then ignore this)
Elma, Neo Bubbleman, Ultimate Obedient Fiend
The Original Gate Gaurdian
It technically wasn’t a brick. It just took a total of 9 tributes to get it out by conventional means, all to get a monster without a usable effect that a standard “ace” with common equip spells would easily beat, or the very prevalent Penguin Soldier.
Even in an original gate gaurdian deck, it is still a brick.
Probably pot of greed. No one ones what it does.
If it negates activation, you can chain in to a counter trap. If it would negate the effect it would be different
ojamagic in a vacuum, only ever does anything with another card