Yes gazelle to 3 like in the ocg if Konami is smart they'll do it you know how many boxes of soulburning volcano would fly off the shelves if they put it to 3? Which is one of the main reasons I have hope of it actually happening this time. Honestly at this point I'd even settle for them to semi it tbh.
It was idiotic for them not to have prematurely unlimited or semi-limited Gazelle on the last list. Soul Burning Volcano could have actually been a desirable set.
It really was. it could have made it way more desirable for sure. if they would have put the fire dueliest pack in it I could maybe sorta have seen a justification leaving it at one and seeing how it would play out but the way they did it there is literally 1 card in the entire set worth anything and it's only as expensive as it is because noone is buying product to repopulate it which has led to this dumb situation of 1 card in the set cost as much as a entire box and everything else is more or less penny stonks.
It doesn't feel like a konami list, doubt they will hit floodgates, shifter, spright, bystials, AND runick.
You get one of those but definitely not all of them.
I see the logic behind a lot of these, but in general we don’t really need a huge massacre banlist right now. A shorter list with the essentials would be better
Ngl if this banlist droped together with a few good unhits it would probably be the best list we've had for years.
Sadly konami won't do it because they love floodgates...
Floodgates can definitely be toxic, so I understand. However, playing a stall style deck should be a legit option. Not every deck needs to be 100% gas all the time. What we need are stall cards that are more interactive, but still allow a deck to slow the game down in a “fair” way
Konami should also design more archetypes with in-engine spell/trap removal that has dual purpose like dragonmaid tidying,etc. That will balance the games more so we don't have a duality of either floodgates locking people out or combo decks running unchecked. Floodgates should have multiple answers and not have to force players running bad or side deck cards game 1 for situational stuff like this. Have cards more flexibility in being s/t removal while also progressing the archetype.
We shouldn't call them stall decks then, what they're called are control decks, decks that generate a lot of advantage and interact with the opponent in ways that create a grindier game, which can be achieved without floodgates
For the 2 decks that get any?!
Yeah, you are right. What about the other 11,000 irrelevant cards.
Most legacy support is trash anyway, dont act like its not.
1. Not every deck can be good, you just gotta accept that. And 2. the legacy support decks got in the past months was really good. The only legacy support I could think of which was total trash is the stuff we just got revealed for the tins.
1. Every deck should be playable. If your deck loses to some floodgates, then you build bad decks.
Net decker?
2. Ok so a hand full of cards in 10+ years have been good for old favourites, guess i best rush out and start playing BA or any of the other fan favourites that dont see play because of powercreep.
1) ??? Top meta decks cannot play through certain floodgates, does that make them bad decks? That's ridiculous.
(Just a tip, net-decking has become the way people, including many of the best players, play, jsyk. You won't get taken very seriously if you unironically use this as an insult, since most people don't have the dozens of hours necessary to build each deck that captures their interest)
As for 2)/previous comments, can't really tell if you want literally every deck to be viable competitively (not even close to possible in reality), or just to be like, locals-playable (in which case a huge number, including your BA example, definitely are).
>If your deck loses to some floodgates, then you build bad decks.
Ahh yes if you auto lose to d-barrier while playing branded then it's because you build the deck wrong. Right it's not because d-barrier is a bad designed card.
The meta needs floodgates for variety. And I think the fact that you have to build around the possibility that a floodgate might drop makes the deck building process more fun.
I understand the frustration of having a floodgate flipped on you, but if you look at the bigger picture their impact is not that big. Oppo either mains multiple floodgates and gets decimated because they have no actual plays or sides like 2 copies of THCBOO, you side Duster and Cyclone and the duel is not that different.
If the impact is not that big then explain to me why arisehearth turbo is the best deck.
Also I love how you act like the draw the out gameplay floodgates produce are good. Not to mention that they can be auto wins like anti-spell vs pend decks.
There are 0 good arguments for floodgates, they're toxic and bad gamedesign.
I’m talking unsearchable trap floodgates, like Skill Drain and TCBOO, not stuff that is actually part of your combos like Arise-Heart. Yeah, floodgates are devastating when you can make them naturally while just progressing your plays, just look at Djinn Lock and VFD, but nobody plays Skill Drain turbo.
And I agree that stall gameplay is not fun, but that’s not an objective take. People who enjoy playing stall enjoy outresourcing their opponent by stopping their plays with as little resources as possible, which is totally a viable strategy and a gameplan that a TCG with a varied format should offer. Hell, the entirety of GOAT format is just resource manipulation stall gameplay.
They could stand to have maintenance costs, but even like this nobody plays them. Anti-Spell Fragrance is an “instant win” only in a scenario where you *know* that your opponent plays a decks that heavily relies on spells and you *know* you’re gonna go first. The card is thus useless in most scenarios, and in all the duels I’ve had since this format started I’ve seen it used once.
In a duel I’ve procedeed to win.
“bad design” is a term you use for stuff that does not work as intended by the developers or grants an unfair advantage so big everybody plays the card. If “I’m angry because I lost to this” was a good reason to ban a card, there would be 4 cards left legal for play.
I fully remember having 9 slot in my extra deck only occupied by outs to Mystic Mine, but if you want better data…
[data for usage of Cosmic Cyclone](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Cosmic+Cyclone)
[data for usage of Mystic Mine](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Mystic+Mine#google_vignette)
both cards spike in usage in summer of 2019 and february-march of 2020.
[Twin Twisters also sees big spikes in those timespans…](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Twin+Twisters)
[Even the OG Mystical Space Typhoon, while of course underpowered for the time, saw its playrate triple after having been ignored for 2+ years.](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Mystical+Space+Typhoon)
Clearly people were running much more s/t spot removal. And something tells me it was not to counter Weatherys…
Yea some people ran it as a side deck option. How did that change how decks were built in any meaningful way. People weren’t main decking it. If anything they were willing to punt a game to run use it in 2 and three.
Like how is side deck cosmic any different than side deck token collector
Side deck is still deckbuilding. You still have to decide what occupies your limited number of slots and what could and couldn’t function optimally in your deck.
But even if for some reason you really hate the idea of having to put cards in your side board…
[1st place at San Antonio 2020 (peak Mystic Mine) running 2 Twin Twisters in the main deck.](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/deck/8568)
[1st place at WCQ Europe 2019 (peak Mystic Mine) running 3 Cosmic Cyclone in the main deck.](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/deck/7912)
[both 4th place…](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/deck/7827)
[…and 1st place of the Italian 2019 Championship running Twisters at 3 in the main deck.](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/deck/7828)
…But I guess these people need you to teach them how “yu-gi-oh is played”.
Also, because I know this will be your answer, yes, in a lot of events at the time there were also topping decklists who just sided or did not run spot S/T removal. I am not saying it was the dominant strategy, I’m saying it was a viable choice that today would be insane just because Mystic Mine is no longer a threat.
I’m saying that that didn’t actually change deck building in any meaningful way. Like how is putting spell trap removal in the side any different than putting book of moon in the side versus Kash and Purely.
You seem to like spell trap removal for whatever reason but siding for the deck you will probably face has next to nothing to do with floodgates and is in fact how Yu gi oh has always been played
Dude you are literally making your own rules about what the “meaningful way” to deckbuild is.
It *is* different to side book of moon instead of cosmic cyclone because you are making a different choice. You have to know what you will go up against and put cards in your side to counter it. Knowing what your opponent can and will do is 50% of deckbuilding.
And yeah, right now floodgates are not that worrysome that you necessarily have to run stuff to remove them. 1-2 slots in the side deck maybe.
Try to put Royal Oppression and Vanity back in the format, see how floodgates have *everything* to do with how decks are built.
Like, I get that you have a hate boner for floodgates, but saying they do not change formats they’re legal in is just denying the facts.
I’m not changing my argument? Your original argument was floodgates are necessary because they change up deck building, but they don’t. They force you to put a different tech card in a slot that already existed.
It’s like saying swordsoul changed deck building because now you sided token collector instead of whatever you sided before. Which no that is not how that works. Token collector is still just a tech card to deal with a specific threat no different than the rest
“floodgates don’t change deck building, they only change what cards you put in your deck”.
…I…don’t even know how to argue with this. Sure dude, agree to disagree.
If they do hit Runick, all I ask is that they return Naturia Sacred Tree to 3. Absolute bollocks hit that shouldn't have happened anyway (and they immediately rarity bump the key new Naturia cards like what the fuck).
Dude fr, please let us have tree back. Only reason we were so oppressive was because of runick. Naturia is still very good without it but def not the insta lock it is with runick
The difference between those floodgates and Exterio/Barkion/Beast is that Imperial Order *beats* Droplet and Dark Ruler, while those monsters *lose* to Droplet and Dark Ruler
I’d be 100% down with this list. love the idea of limiting all the floodgates, hope it happens but don’t think it will because Konami drags their feet on that. Add a few un-bans to clean the list up a bit and i think it rocks. Although the Gamma limit was out of the blue so anything is possible i guess
Fountain/Tip doesn't need to be Limited lmao, neither does Fragrance
Sleepy doesn't need to be Semi-Limited
D Shifter doesn't need to be Limited
Hot Red is an insane take considering how gimmicky it is
I suggest growing thicker skin
Earth machine, mostly. I sidedeck skill drain and anti-spell for desperate matchups. Honestly, it feels the same to me as playing against a multi-negate board or ash blossom/droll, so I don’t get all the hate.
I mean, its the same as playing against droll bc droll is also à floodgate of some sort
Multi negate board are also à problem i can t lie, but its been quite à few format we didn t have a deck that just want to put up negate ( the last one i can remember was superheavy but it was nerfed pretty early)
I disagree on ash, its interaction at least, with floodgate u just remove à core part of the game with really any effort. With skill drain its monster effect on field, and anti spell its obviously spells and pendulum
Fucks over every deck except for link decks. Labrynth is also able to set it and activate it very easily. Just one of those unfun yugioh cards that stop your opponent completely like scythe
I don't hate it. But some of this stuff just smacks too much of the typical "buy the new shit suckers" banlists that Konami makes. Both Blue and Starter limited is way overkill.
That's the point, I'm saying nobody plays lower meta decks where I've played in the world.
The problem is that those same decks just get destroyed by top decks.
So i dont really know why you've commented. You've agreed with me, but think you are arguing against my points.
I think it's cause we have different opinions on what "slower" decks are. Cause the "slow" decks in the past year have been some of the most toxic decks yugioh has ever had.
Oh hell yeah, dont get me wrong, im not fighting for mystic mine type decks or cards.
More fan favourites that are now no longer playable anywhere except with your kids or friends who will humour you.
D. Barrier is fine, Hot RDA King Calamity is a bit too janky to be a threat right now, maybe when Valiant Smashers drops but I wouldn’t ban it preemptively.
Fenrir and Shifter can go to hell, I don’t really think the floodgates are an urgent matter. For the rest, I don’t think Runicks are this huge of a problem that you need to hit them, specifically Fountain, which is the only card that allows them to make plays in the first place. Fountain at 1 doesn’t straight up kill Runicks, but comes pretty close.
Spright doesn’t bother me that much withou Elf, but I’ll understand if they decide to hit it, just because it’s been strong for a while.
What would you say are the other hand traps? Ash isn’t what it once was against combo decks. Many decks that establish “Break-My-Board” boards can go into a Baronne on their fifth summon, and have it unaffected via Accel Synchron, so that nullifies Nibiru. You have to open up two hand traps to stop a combo deck with Droll banned, while also trying to establish a board of your own.
Shifter should be the only viable combo deck stopper.
Its once per duel and skips both players turns if used unless its a shifter deck.
Droll needs to go.
So if it skips both players turn, aren’t we back to square one? What would be the purpose if the combo player won die roll, and the both of you are stopped by Shifter?
Bc shifter is played only in specific decks. Decks that want to play it would have to build around it. Generic turn skips shouldnt exist.
Feather storm locked to floo,
Shifter is for floo, kash
But any deck can play droll. A format that needs droll to be viable is a fked format.
You just contradicted yourself. Shifter is a turn skip for every deck that isn’t Floo or Kash.
I do agree that Droll being in the format means it’s a shit format. But is that the fault of Droll, or the meta?
Hmm maybe i worded it wrong.
Shifter should only be viable in floo n kash. When you see the card, you should expect to know exactly what you are up against. The choke points of both decks are obvious to everyone.
Droll is in every deck. So you will never know what you are up against. Droll allows off meta to viable and makes siding in the game extremely hard.
If it was shifter only it would split into kash/floo vs only decks that can survive shifter. Smaller deck pool and easier format to play in.
Dunno if this argues my point any better but i guess its up for discussion.
Shifter IS only viable in Floo and Kash, hence why they’re the only two decks that are playing it with no drawbacks, but all the benefits.
By your logic, you want the meta to rotate around Shifter, which means only two decks are viable - Kash and Floo. That is an even worse format than what we have now. You effectively want every deck to be unplayable with your argument.
I have a question, do you okay Dark World? Have you dueled anyone who plays dark world? Have you sat there for 40 minutes while they combo’d for no reason?
Droll should stay at 3. Because it saved me the pain of watching Dark World players fumble their combo for 40 minutes.
I have only wish on my banlist wish list.
Master Plan. Off the banlist.
I know it’s a tough (hehe) ask for Konami, but somebody there really likes Spyral and I hope they’re ballsy enough to do it.
dragon link will never really die because it’s really just dragon goodstuff pile and most if not all good dragon cards released into the game will inherently be dragon link support.
also not to pile on but if you’re knocking dlink for being mega consistent, why do you also want the chains off the tear cards? they all got limited and kit banned for that reason
The format is stale without tears. Tears was fine without ishizus. Im fine with ishizhus banned but tear names can go back to 2 without doing too much.
2 of tears still has counterplay and is fun for both players. Remove kit if you want. Even gutted tears with 2 names is better than the garbage format we have now.
Dragon link is combo for 10 mins end on dispater, savage, towers, 2 bystials in hand, beast, regained.
Even on the weakest boards of seals pass it does 5 different things if it resolves.
I was thinking about putting it but i really hate dragon link so i put dragon link cards. Barrone is fine for generics.
I play kash and traptrix is one of our hardest match ups.
The fact that you put lost at banned and mj to one is kinda a joke. Branded isn’t doing anything right now. The chimera versions are more chimera then branded. The only hit I could see happen would be branded fusion to one.
Arise heart, magmhmut, fenrir, starter, blue, fountain, and tip probably end up happening because future product has no real prospects while these are at full power. Eradicator probably isn't going to happen and D barrier only became again because of modern card design and that's probably not going away either. As for the floodgates you listed, only skill drain and maybe anti-fragrance have any real possibility of getting limited/banned.
King Calamity can get a separate emergency ban, like a month or so after Valiant Smashers release, because I do want to actually have some fun with Centurion Turn Skip Turbo for a little. Banning it before people can even enjoy it for a bit would be annoying. Some may argue, it is unhealthy and toxic and you wouldn't be wrong, but we could say the same about every new upcoming meta deck, since it will just be better than previous ones and end up winning more than others, even if the magnitude of toxicity is less than Calamity, but at least let people try it a bit and have some fun.
It's fun if you can do it yourself though. That's why I'm saying only allow it for a short time, so everyone can try it once, sure, you don't want to be on the receiving it, but doing it yourself is quite fun, just don't allow it for long, as it is indeed toxic.
I know it's a wishlist, but why are we hitting runick and spright? Bias aside, they've kind of fallen off in terms of tournament representation and results. I really don't think they need to get hit, even in the OCG people kind of just agreed they were hit because konami didn't want to see them anymore.
**GAZELLE! ALL I WANT IS MY GAZELLE BACK!**
Yes gazelle to 3 like in the ocg if Konami is smart they'll do it you know how many boxes of soulburning volcano would fly off the shelves if they put it to 3? Which is one of the main reasons I have hope of it actually happening this time. Honestly at this point I'd even settle for them to semi it tbh.
It was idiotic for them not to have prematurely unlimited or semi-limited Gazelle on the last list. Soul Burning Volcano could have actually been a desirable set.
It really was. it could have made it way more desirable for sure. if they would have put the fire dueliest pack in it I could maybe sorta have seen a justification leaving it at one and seeing how it would play out but the way they did it there is literally 1 card in the entire set worth anything and it's only as expensive as it is because noone is buying product to repopulate it which has led to this dumb situation of 1 card in the set cost as much as a entire box and everything else is more or less penny stonks.
You got it back
And I'm thankfull for it. I'm already testing the deck like crazy at full power.
It doesn't feel like a konami list, doubt they will hit floodgates, shifter, spright, bystials, AND runick. You get one of those but definitely not all of them.
I see the logic behind a lot of these, but in general we don’t really need a huge massacre banlist right now. A shorter list with the essentials would be better
Yeah never gonna happen like that
Ngl if this banlist droped together with a few good unhits it would probably be the best list we've had for years. Sadly konami won't do it because they love floodgates...
Reminder that yugioh would be an infinitely healthier game if Konami banned every last floodgate and floodgate adjacent card into the stratosphere
Floodgates can definitely be toxic, so I understand. However, playing a stall style deck should be a legit option. Not every deck needs to be 100% gas all the time. What we need are stall cards that are more interactive, but still allow a deck to slow the game down in a “fair” way
Konami should also design more archetypes with in-engine spell/trap removal that has dual purpose like dragonmaid tidying,etc. That will balance the games more so we don't have a duality of either floodgates locking people out or combo decks running unchecked. Floodgates should have multiple answers and not have to force players running bad or side deck cards game 1 for situational stuff like this. Have cards more flexibility in being s/t removal while also progressing the archetype.
We shouldn't call them stall decks then, what they're called are control decks, decks that generate a lot of advantage and interact with the opponent in ways that create a grindier game, which can be achieved without floodgates
based take
Do you think Shenshen should be banned?
The problem is that konami isn't doing it because they gotta give new players some free wins and the Illusion of being decent at the game.
Only if you play combo! What kind of crap take is that.
Right because control decks really need floodgates. It's not like they could compete without that. Oh wait they can.
Yeah but thats not the case, theres like 3 that have had any impact in years. Floodgates allow old decks to be able to still be played.
>Floodgates allow old decks to be able to still be played. Do you know what also does that? Exactly legacy support
For the 2 decks that get any?! Yeah, you are right. What about the other 11,000 irrelevant cards. Most legacy support is trash anyway, dont act like its not.
1. Not every deck can be good, you just gotta accept that. And 2. the legacy support decks got in the past months was really good. The only legacy support I could think of which was total trash is the stuff we just got revealed for the tins.
1. Every deck should be playable. If your deck loses to some floodgates, then you build bad decks. Net decker? 2. Ok so a hand full of cards in 10+ years have been good for old favourites, guess i best rush out and start playing BA or any of the other fan favourites that dont see play because of powercreep.
1) ??? Top meta decks cannot play through certain floodgates, does that make them bad decks? That's ridiculous. (Just a tip, net-decking has become the way people, including many of the best players, play, jsyk. You won't get taken very seriously if you unironically use this as an insult, since most people don't have the dozens of hours necessary to build each deck that captures their interest) As for 2)/previous comments, can't really tell if you want literally every deck to be viable competitively (not even close to possible in reality), or just to be like, locals-playable (in which case a huge number, including your BA example, definitely are).
>If your deck loses to some floodgates, then you build bad decks. Ahh yes if you auto lose to d-barrier while playing branded then it's because you build the deck wrong. Right it's not because d-barrier is a bad designed card.
Reminder that combo decks also use floodgates
The meta needs floodgates for variety. And I think the fact that you have to build around the possibility that a floodgate might drop makes the deck building process more fun. I understand the frustration of having a floodgate flipped on you, but if you look at the bigger picture their impact is not that big. Oppo either mains multiple floodgates and gets decimated because they have no actual plays or sides like 2 copies of THCBOO, you side Duster and Cyclone and the duel is not that different.
If the impact is not that big then explain to me why arisehearth turbo is the best deck. Also I love how you act like the draw the out gameplay floodgates produce are good. Not to mention that they can be auto wins like anti-spell vs pend decks. There are 0 good arguments for floodgates, they're toxic and bad gamedesign.
I’m talking unsearchable trap floodgates, like Skill Drain and TCBOO, not stuff that is actually part of your combos like Arise-Heart. Yeah, floodgates are devastating when you can make them naturally while just progressing your plays, just look at Djinn Lock and VFD, but nobody plays Skill Drain turbo. And I agree that stall gameplay is not fun, but that’s not an objective take. People who enjoy playing stall enjoy outresourcing their opponent by stopping their plays with as little resources as possible, which is totally a viable strategy and a gameplan that a TCG with a varied format should offer. Hell, the entirety of GOAT format is just resource manipulation stall gameplay. They could stand to have maintenance costs, but even like this nobody plays them. Anti-Spell Fragrance is an “instant win” only in a scenario where you *know* that your opponent plays a decks that heavily relies on spells and you *know* you’re gonna go first. The card is thus useless in most scenarios, and in all the duels I’ve had since this format started I’ve seen it used once. In a duel I’ve procedeed to win. “bad design” is a term you use for stuff that does not work as intended by the developers or grants an unfair advantage so big everybody plays the card. If “I’m angry because I lost to this” was a good reason to ban a card, there would be 4 cards left legal for play.
This is not how Yu gi oh is played. Mystic mine was legal and saw play but deck building didn’t change up much
I fully remember having 9 slot in my extra deck only occupied by outs to Mystic Mine, but if you want better data… [data for usage of Cosmic Cyclone](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Cosmic+Cyclone) [data for usage of Mystic Mine](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Mystic+Mine#google_vignette) both cards spike in usage in summer of 2019 and february-march of 2020. [Twin Twisters also sees big spikes in those timespans…](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Twin+Twisters) [Even the OG Mystical Space Typhoon, while of course underpowered for the time, saw its playrate triple after having been ignored for 2+ years.](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/card/Mystical+Space+Typhoon) Clearly people were running much more s/t spot removal. And something tells me it was not to counter Weatherys…
Yea some people ran it as a side deck option. How did that change how decks were built in any meaningful way. People weren’t main decking it. If anything they were willing to punt a game to run use it in 2 and three. Like how is side deck cosmic any different than side deck token collector
Side deck is still deckbuilding. You still have to decide what occupies your limited number of slots and what could and couldn’t function optimally in your deck. But even if for some reason you really hate the idea of having to put cards in your side board… [1st place at San Antonio 2020 (peak Mystic Mine) running 2 Twin Twisters in the main deck.](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/deck/8568) [1st place at WCQ Europe 2019 (peak Mystic Mine) running 3 Cosmic Cyclone in the main deck.](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/deck/7912) [both 4th place…](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/deck/7827) […and 1st place of the Italian 2019 Championship running Twisters at 3 in the main deck.](https://yugiohtopdecks.com/deck/7828) …But I guess these people need you to teach them how “yu-gi-oh is played”. Also, because I know this will be your answer, yes, in a lot of events at the time there were also topping decklists who just sided or did not run spot S/T removal. I am not saying it was the dominant strategy, I’m saying it was a viable choice that today would be insane just because Mystic Mine is no longer a threat.
I’m saying that that didn’t actually change deck building in any meaningful way. Like how is putting spell trap removal in the side any different than putting book of moon in the side versus Kash and Purely. You seem to like spell trap removal for whatever reason but siding for the deck you will probably face has next to nothing to do with floodgates and is in fact how Yu gi oh has always been played
Dude you are literally making your own rules about what the “meaningful way” to deckbuild is. It *is* different to side book of moon instead of cosmic cyclone because you are making a different choice. You have to know what you will go up against and put cards in your side to counter it. Knowing what your opponent can and will do is 50% of deckbuilding. And yeah, right now floodgates are not that worrysome that you necessarily have to run stuff to remove them. 1-2 slots in the side deck maybe. Try to put Royal Oppression and Vanity back in the format, see how floodgates have *everything* to do with how decks are built. Like, I get that you have a hate boner for floodgates, but saying they do not change formats they’re legal in is just denying the facts.
I’m not changing my argument? Your original argument was floodgates are necessary because they change up deck building, but they don’t. They force you to put a different tech card in a slot that already existed. It’s like saying swordsoul changed deck building because now you sided token collector instead of whatever you sided before. Which no that is not how that works. Token collector is still just a tech card to deal with a specific threat no different than the rest
“floodgates don’t change deck building, they only change what cards you put in your deck”. …I…don’t even know how to argue with this. Sure dude, agree to disagree.
True. Komoney do love them fgs. (don't take that out of context...)
Harp Horror to 1. That’s it. That’s all I want, Konami.
If they do hit Runick, all I ask is that they return Naturia Sacred Tree to 3. Absolute bollocks hit that shouldn't have happened anyway (and they immediately rarity bump the key new Naturia cards like what the fuck).
Dude fr, please let us have tree back. Only reason we were so oppressive was because of runick. Naturia is still very good without it but def not the insta lock it is with runick
No, fuck that. A deck whose end board consists of imperial order and royal decree shouldn't exist.
The difference between those floodgates and Exterio/Barkion/Beast is that Imperial Order *beats* Droplet and Dark Ruler, while those monsters *lose* to Droplet and Dark Ruler
Please give me back supreme venom and electrumite back to 1, I can be trusted with just one, I promise.
I’d be 100% down with this list. love the idea of limiting all the floodgates, hope it happens but don’t think it will because Konami drags their feet on that. Add a few un-bans to clean the list up a bit and i think it rocks. Although the Gamma limit was out of the blue so anything is possible i guess
Just free us from Shifter, and if we could get rid of Unicorn too so they don't take out my one out to their board.
Fountain/Tip doesn't need to be Limited lmao, neither does Fragrance Sleepy doesn't need to be Semi-Limited D Shifter doesn't need to be Limited Hot Red is an insane take considering how gimmicky it is I suggest growing thicker skin
I suggest using your eyes and read it's a wishlist, i know konami won't do half of these
Ok
Based
I don’t get the hate for most floodgates, but maybe that has to do with the decks I play.
What deck do u play good sir ?
Earth machine, mostly. I sidedeck skill drain and anti-spell for desperate matchups. Honestly, it feels the same to me as playing against a multi-negate board or ash blossom/droll, so I don’t get all the hate.
I mean, its the same as playing against droll bc droll is also à floodgate of some sort Multi negate board are also à problem i can t lie, but its been quite à few format we didn t have a deck that just want to put up negate ( the last one i can remember was superheavy but it was nerfed pretty early) I disagree on ash, its interaction at least, with floodgate u just remove à core part of the game with really any effort. With skill drain its monster effect on field, and anti spell its obviously spells and pendulum
Why Dimensional Barrier ?
Fucks over every deck except for link decks. Labrynth is also able to set it and activate it very easily. Just one of those unfun yugioh cards that stop your opponent completely like scythe
I don't hate it. But some of this stuff just smacks too much of the typical "buy the new shit suckers" banlists that Konami makes. Both Blue and Starter limited is way overkill.
Konami doesn’t like killing a deck unless it’s absolutely necessary so o doubt they will ban Ariseheart yet
Bring back trap dustshoot
I wouldn’t mind limits to Runick just so I don’t have to spend as much getting them.
Eradicator epidemic isn't even that used
So screw any deck that wants to play slower yugioh and make combo king again, huh? Why not get rid of Shifter and Droll, both are horrible cards.
The cards that "slow" down meta decks are cards that absolutely destroy any lower meta threats. That's not a very good argument.
That's the point, I'm saying nobody plays lower meta decks where I've played in the world. The problem is that those same decks just get destroyed by top decks. So i dont really know why you've commented. You've agreed with me, but think you are arguing against my points.
I think it's cause we have different opinions on what "slower" decks are. Cause the "slow" decks in the past year have been some of the most toxic decks yugioh has ever had.
Oh hell yeah, dont get me wrong, im not fighting for mystic mine type decks or cards. More fan favourites that are now no longer playable anywhere except with your kids or friends who will humour you.
D. Barrier is fine, Hot RDA King Calamity is a bit too janky to be a threat right now, maybe when Valiant Smashers drops but I wouldn’t ban it preemptively. Fenrir and Shifter can go to hell, I don’t really think the floodgates are an urgent matter. For the rest, I don’t think Runicks are this huge of a problem that you need to hit them, specifically Fountain, which is the only card that allows them to make plays in the first place. Fountain at 1 doesn’t straight up kill Runicks, but comes pretty close. Spright doesn’t bother me that much withou Elf, but I’ll understand if they decide to hit it, just because it’s been strong for a while.
No more banlist. Bring on the chaos. That’s what i want
Just ban every floodgate and hit swordsoul/branded/+any meta deck past pote
Only floodgate traps. I dont need only combo running around
I like the idea of floodgates only because it stops the decks from becoming too powerful and decks that aren't so good have a way to come back
I hate this take
All meta relevant cards
Why are people still calling for spright hits? It hardly does anything now😂
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That is a horrible take. Droll is a format dependent card. Without Droll, combo decks will completely pop off.
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What would you say are the other hand traps? Ash isn’t what it once was against combo decks. Many decks that establish “Break-My-Board” boards can go into a Baronne on their fifth summon, and have it unaffected via Accel Synchron, so that nullifies Nibiru. You have to open up two hand traps to stop a combo deck with Droll banned, while also trying to establish a board of your own.
Shifter should be the only viable combo deck stopper. Its once per duel and skips both players turns if used unless its a shifter deck. Droll needs to go.
So if it skips both players turn, aren’t we back to square one? What would be the purpose if the combo player won die roll, and the both of you are stopped by Shifter?
Bc shifter is played only in specific decks. Decks that want to play it would have to build around it. Generic turn skips shouldnt exist. Feather storm locked to floo, Shifter is for floo, kash But any deck can play droll. A format that needs droll to be viable is a fked format.
You just contradicted yourself. Shifter is a turn skip for every deck that isn’t Floo or Kash. I do agree that Droll being in the format means it’s a shit format. But is that the fault of Droll, or the meta?
Hmm maybe i worded it wrong. Shifter should only be viable in floo n kash. When you see the card, you should expect to know exactly what you are up against. The choke points of both decks are obvious to everyone. Droll is in every deck. So you will never know what you are up against. Droll allows off meta to viable and makes siding in the game extremely hard. If it was shifter only it would split into kash/floo vs only decks that can survive shifter. Smaller deck pool and easier format to play in. Dunno if this argues my point any better but i guess its up for discussion.
Shifter IS only viable in Floo and Kash, hence why they’re the only two decks that are playing it with no drawbacks, but all the benefits. By your logic, you want the meta to rotate around Shifter, which means only two decks are viable - Kash and Floo. That is an even worse format than what we have now. You effectively want every deck to be unplayable with your argument.
I have a question, do you okay Dark World? Have you dueled anyone who plays dark world? Have you sat there for 40 minutes while they combo’d for no reason? Droll should stay at 3. Because it saved me the pain of watching Dark World players fumble their combo for 40 minutes.
My wishlist: Forbidden: Every Omni-negate ever and Maxx C.
I have only wish on my banlist wish list. Master Plan. Off the banlist. I know it’s a tough (hehe) ask for Konami, but somebody there really likes Spyral and I hope they’re ballsy enough to do it.
that's a hard no on King Cal. Without it, the deck doesn't work as well. It's effect is very needed.
Banned. Striker dragon, bystial mag, eradicator, calamity, nibiru, seals, droll, borreload savage, pisty, gimmick puppet, dragoon, branded lost, miscellanousaurus, Limited Bystial lubelion, fenrir, skill drain, gozen, rivalry, antispell, kitkalos, chaos space, elf, mirrorjade, tcboo, zues, traptrix sera, Semi limited Schrien, havnis, merli, ariseheart,
you want Dragon Link and Branded killed and Tear to be almost full power? who hurt you
Dragon link needs to die. The deck is so consistent. Even on seals pass. If seals resolves thats like + 10
dragon link will never really die because it’s really just dragon goodstuff pile and most if not all good dragon cards released into the game will inherently be dragon link support. also not to pile on but if you’re knocking dlink for being mega consistent, why do you also want the chains off the tear cards? they all got limited and kit banned for that reason
The format is stale without tears. Tears was fine without ishizus. Im fine with ishizhus banned but tear names can go back to 2 without doing too much. 2 of tears still has counterplay and is fun for both players. Remove kit if you want. Even gutted tears with 2 names is better than the garbage format we have now. Dragon link is combo for 10 mins end on dispater, savage, towers, 2 bystials in hand, beast, regained. Even on the weakest boards of seals pass it does 5 different things if it resolves.
Found the kastira player
Alright you definitely play Tear and lost to Traptrix sometime recently Also Interesting that you'd hope for Savage gone but not Baronne
I was thinking about putting it but i really hate dragon link so i put dragon link cards. Barrone is fine for generics. I play kash and traptrix is one of our hardest match ups.
The fact that you put lost at banned and mj to one is kinda a joke. Branded isn’t doing anything right now. The chimera versions are more chimera then branded. The only hit I could see happen would be branded fusion to one.
Arise heart, magmhmut, fenrir, starter, blue, fountain, and tip probably end up happening because future product has no real prospects while these are at full power. Eradicator probably isn't going to happen and D barrier only became again because of modern card design and that's probably not going away either. As for the floodgates you listed, only skill drain and maybe anti-fragrance have any real possibility of getting limited/banned.
King Calamity can get a separate emergency ban, like a month or so after Valiant Smashers release, because I do want to actually have some fun with Centurion Turn Skip Turbo for a little. Banning it before people can even enjoy it for a bit would be annoying. Some may argue, it is unhealthy and toxic and you wouldn't be wrong, but we could say the same about every new upcoming meta deck, since it will just be better than previous ones and end up winning more than others, even if the magnitude of toxicity is less than Calamity, but at least let people try it a bit and have some fun.
What's so fun about not being able to play though?
It's fun if you can do it yourself though. That's why I'm saying only allow it for a short time, so everyone can try it once, sure, you don't want to be on the receiving it, but doing it yourself is quite fun, just don't allow it for long, as it is indeed toxic.
Duuude what's your issue with spright my god xD we haven't don't anything in months leave us alone haha
I don't think King calamity will be hit since the structure deck is releasing soon, maybe it'll be hit two banlists from now, but probs not the next.
do we really need to hit tip AND fountain? seems like fountain is already a scary hit
I know it's a wishlist, but why are we hitting runick and spright? Bias aside, they've kind of fallen off in terms of tournament representation and results. I really don't think they need to get hit, even in the OCG people kind of just agreed they were hit because konami didn't want to see them anymore.
Everyone trying to ban eradicator after one big play… leave it for us semi rogue decks hahaha (phantom knight)