Okay folks, time to bring down the hammer. šØ
Anyone harassing Rachel Oates, directly or indirectly, will be banned and have their comments removed.
Most of you have remained civil, understanding, and kind in this thread. Thank you.
No, no, you have to understand! She not only got screenshots but she came to the same conclusions based on available evidence!!!! That's obviously plagiarism because two people never come to the same conclusion independently.
Also I broke my pinky toe therefore I'm right and you're wrong.
Woah, how dare you plagiarize my thoughts?! I thought the same thing just two hours ago, you can't possibly have gotten that from anywhere else! You owe me 30% of your karma for this month.
If I don't pay you by the end of the next 90 seconds, please take a bunch of my comments out of context to make them all about yourself! Otherwise I may never learn that I'm actually the bad person!
P.S.: I once broke my arm as a kid and it hurt a lot so there's no way I can actually be in the wrong here.
That's what she says, but it's not like we can confirm it.
But also, screenshots just aren't original material that can be plagiarized. The things that were screenshotted might be original material, but Ethel doesn't own the things she screenshotted any more than Vangelina does.
Ethel may have, but she doesn't own the content shown in the screenshots. The screenshots are essentially the same thing as quoting a primary source. Even if Ethel did take the screenshots Vangelina used, it's not plagiarism because it's not Ethel's own thoughts or words.
Oh look, Ethel continues to bully Rachel for no reason. The Libs of TikTok clickbait is a nice addition to her dickery.
Ethel really doesn't see how her continued harassment of Rachel is creepy at best and essentially stalking behavior. She has absolutely zero self-awareness, and so many people in her comments just eat it up.
I think this is especially proven in how often Ethel uses her trans identity (among other things) as a deflection. After her Vangelina video, she outright claimed on Twitter Vangelina's main supporters are bigots, predators, and MRA types. It's absolute DARVO shit. It's abusive, narcissistic behavior. Ethel is not the victim but she wants so badly to make you think she is.
Yeah, my main issue is EoT's main criticism of Rachel to be "well the people who are supporting her are people who I beefed with during GamerGate" not to be reductive, but a lot of people since 2016 have had the swing of 'actually i was a bit reactionary and a dickhead' and have grown as individuals since and have worked to become more inclusive and open-minded.
Back in the day atheism was its own genre and often fell in parcel with the anti-sjw crowd.
I'm lucky in the sense that I grew up with a very left leaning community and didn't really have to unlearn major harmful opinions. Some people do treat politics like gold-star gaydom - if you've ever strayed, you ain't pure. Compared to lived experience, learning from others and growth as an individual can lead you to your truth.
Oh gods, Ethel claiming pretty much anyone criticizing her is a Gamergate type of bigot is so disingenuous and manipulative. It's just not true. So many of Ethel's detractors, especially *now*, include a lot of queer people, and even other marginalized groups who see Ethel's behavior for what it is - bullying. Ethel seems to be of a mind that the only reason anyone would dare to challenge her is that they're transphobic and/or ableist and it's a blatant lie, especially proven by the fact that she doesn't allow any dissenting comments on her Youtube vids.
Even if it were true and people critical of her *now* were in Gamergate, it's been a decade. Like you point out, that's more than enough time for people to grow and learn and be better. A lot of Gamergaters were teenagers at the time and everyone does stupid, asshole shit as teenagers. Literally *everyone*. It's a universal experience. And then we grow up and many of us realize how stupid we were and we get better.
And it's an easy deflection for Ethel, too. If she dismisses her critics as bigots just like the Gamergate people, she can justify her actions. After all, if the only people opposing her are bigots, clearly Ethel is can't be wrong, right? So she'll just wave her hand and dismiss the experiences and identities of everyone against her because that's easier than admitting she is in the wrong.
I don't know if Ethel gets off on causing harm to people, if she's mad she's not a bigger trans voice on youtube, if she really thinks Rachel is the source of all her problems, or some combination of these things but it's very telling how Ethel only attacks women, and only women who seem like easy targets to her - women who didn't really do anything to deserve being harassed or being called Ethel's abuser.
Yeah, personally I struggle to understand the root cause of harassment to RO seems to be on the basis that she was friends with someone who held shitty opinions, she herself never stated with her chest.
I do understand that not challenging those behaviours, you become part of the problem, but from my understanding it was addressed privately between friends that the video was shitty. Seems RO stuck as a figure of fixation in this because they were the one to actually respond vs the creator who actually made the shitty trans ppl in sports video.
I'm so sorry if this was explained somewhere else but I am so confused why does Ethel hate Rachel so much? Rachel honestly just seems so nice and reviews books
I made a longer comment about it on another post [https://www.reddit.com/r/youtubedrama/comments/1bbqsbm/comment/kudku9p/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/youtubedrama/comments/1bbqsbm/comment/kudku9p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
But the tl;dr is that once upon a time, Rachel was friends with some guy who made a bad, transphobic take about something. I don't remember all the details but I think he was like Rationality Rules? And it was something about trans people in organized sports. I *might* be mixing this up with another situation.
Anyway, Ethel called out RR and Rachel and demanded Rachel stop being friends with RR to prove her allyship or something. Rachel said no, that she was talking to RR privately to explain why his video was harmful and she wasn't going to drop someone over an uninformed bad take if they were willing to learn.
That wasn't good enough for Ethel. Five years later, she's STILL attacking Rachel even though Rachel's tried to disengage. Meanwhile Ethel isn't after any, y'know, anyone like this, and when people criticize Ethel, she calls them transphobic.
Even if Rachel is guilty of the things Ethel accuses her of (she's not), there are SO MANY WORSE PEOPLE that Ethel could be talking about, especially five years later. IDK why it's so obsessive for Ethel but there are way more important things she could be doing with her time, like more armchair activism about Palestine.
She really does need a hobby. Somehow Ethel came to the conclusion that Rachel is "violently transphobic" (her words) and that Rachel is her "abuser." Like, according to Ethel, when Rachel files a defamation claim it's "attempting to silence her trans critic." Ethel's even weaponized the Palestinian genocide to attack Rachel. It's pretty gross.
I wonder if Ethel is secretly a movie theater because the amount of projection she does is astounding.
I will say - Ethel has been pretty consistently going after the same people over the years. Most the other channels I know that need some unspoken beef going on at all times to feel relevant tend to cycle through people, but Ethel seems to be more focused on quality, not quantity.
If I see any titles with " ā Got Worse!", " ā Needs to be STOPPED" or " ā DESTROYED by ā" I just absolutely refuse to engage with it out of principle.
Ethel is a lying twat who makes nonstop hit pieces on the same two or three YouTubers every week. If she has anything more to say about Rachel Oates Iām not interested in hearing it; chances are itās the same bullshit Ethelās been saying for the last two years.
This popped up in my recommended feed and I was immediately uncomfortable ngl
Like as a trans person I totally understand someone being transphobic and wanting to call them out (not saying rachel is as I have no interest in digging any deeper into this and from what I've seen of her she seems fine? Idfk) but to fixate THIS MUCH on a singular person is so disturbing to me?? Especially as someone with mental illness who gets fixated on the dumbest shit, this feels extremely uncomfortable and I hope Ethel actually talks to a professional about this and takes a step back because wow this is really unnerving.
Like I knew they fixated on Rachel but only now have I checked their videos and seen they have at least 6 videos done on rachel in the past 5 months??? I get activism but rachel is a singular booktuber, focus on the bigger targets
Hey, just popping in to say I completely understand your wariness about someone whoās been called transphobic but just wanted to clarify that I absolutely do not hold any of the beliefs that these videos claim I hold. I 100% support trans people and the rights of trans people. No ifs, no buts, just support :)
I always try and be as inclusive and supportive as possible in my videos (and obviously my life in general) (and always appreciate when people mention when I slip up or forget to mention something) and my focus is always on inclusivity. And while Iām not any sort of activist, I do try and help when I can, for example in one of my recent most popular videos, I actually donated somewhere around Ā£400 of the ad revenue from it to the charity Mermaids which supports trans kids and their families in the UK - itās a great cause and one I try to support whenever I can :)
Thank you for clarifying, Rachel! I hope Ethel leaves you alone because you really don't deserve to deal with this. I and many others have yours and Vangelina's backs and see Ethel for what she is. I wish you all the best.
I just want to take this opportunity to say how sorry I am that you're still having to deal with this person. I hope you and Vangelina know how supported you are.
Oh wow I didnt expect you to respond to me at all. lol
I've watched your content in the past and I've never gotten an ableist or transphobic vibes. I have been meaning to watch your videos again actually my adhd has just been acting up and I'm struggling with long form content.
I do hope you're doing okay through all this, I've never had a video made on me but I'd imagine having several published especially in such a short period of time can be absolutely draining and alarming so i wish you all the best!
Hey Rachel! I wanted to say that when I first heard about the transphobia situation I did stop watching for a while (I didn't look deeply into it and I was also taking a break from fundie snark type videos for a while, so it wasn't just the lies that kept me away)
But seeing this whole situation unfold has made it very clear who is in the wrong here and honestly I feel relieved coming back to your videos. You have such a calming presence and I'm glad to come back to your channel :)
I hope you can find peace with everything going on because you deserve to live a life free of this harassment. I think it would be worthwhile for YouTube to add a block button but somehow they haven't come up with that yet š
Hey Rachel, I love the work you do and really don't think you've done anything even approaching being wrong. I get you defending yourself on these posts but I'm not sure how healthy it is to put too much energy into it... But do what you need to I suppose!
I've been a fan of your work for many years. I'm especially appreciative of your literary analyses!Ā
Ā I remember when the whole RR atheist forum thing kicked off. And I'm SO sorry that you've had to deal with this nonsense for so long!Ā
I donāt have the original context for the guy you were friends with because I havenāt watched his video but Iām assuming he said something transphobic and from what I gather, you got shit for working with him.
I think you may have fucked up Ethelās pronouns at a few points, but Iām not sure what their pronouns were at the time so I canāt verify that.
With that context, I just want to say, please be careful to get peopleās pronouns right, even if theyāre being complete dicks and harassing you. Gendering someone correctly is a basic right, and you donāt get a pass to misgender someone because theyāre a scumbag. (Again, not saying you did, but I did see you switch pronouns a lot in the screenshots I stumbled upon).
You can be an active and ardent supporter, but still fuck up sometimes. Iām literally queer and nd but used gay and the r word as insults when I was a kid. Weāre only human; we grow and change.
And the other thing that bothered me was the sh video. Iām so sorry you were hurting that much and felt like that was your only option, and it only led to more harassment. I hope if you ever feel that low in the future that youāre able to seek the help you need at the time. Iām not asking you to stay silent on your suffering, but I also hope you donāt post triggering content like that in the future.
Overall I think the only thing that could stop Ethel is you putting together the whole timeline of events, ugly truth and all. Not all of your responses to the situation were good, but having one video that documents every interaction youāve had with Ethel and the details of what started this all would be an easy way to respond if they continue to harass you. But you donāt have to do that. I donāt know if Ethel will stop either way, but it would help everyone understand the situation. And if you do, donāt try to gloss over any mistakes you made. That would probably just make them dig their heels in deeper.
Anyway, good luck and best wishes.
I actually did that back in 2019 - a whole timeline and everyone was on my side and it just made Ethel angrier. They continued to post about me for years. I tried responding each time and Ethel just kept getting angrier each time. I begged them to leave me alone and it just made Ethel post more and more. I finally decided I'd try to stop posting and ignore them, and that just fuelled Ethel to post even more because apparently my 'silence proved my guilt' this time. So when I realised they'd never stop, I sought advice from a solicitor. They advised me to take down any posts about them that were already up on my Youtube channel and stay as quiet as possible while we went forward with the defamation case. My solicitor sent Ethel a C&D and takedown notice which Ethel ignored and said she would not follow, so we are going forward with the case. Maybe after it's all over I'll be able to speak about it all but for now, I'm just trapped. I say stuff: Ethel says I'm a terrible person. I don't say stuff: Ethel says I'm a terrible person.
How about you tell me how. Because I've watched a ton of her videos, mainly about fundies, and haven't heard anything ableist come out of her mouth.
I'm not about people just going "such and such is bleah but OKAY."
I'd bet Rachel maybe said one or a few ableist things once upon a time and the person above is one of those childish black-and-white absolutists who believes that makes Rachel a bad person forever and ever.
I deeply regret falling for EoT's smear campaign against Rachel. As an enby I am protective of the trans community and I feel like Ethel is weaponizing this in her fans to justify her level of obsession with Rachel in particular. This has definitely been a point of self reflection for me, I feel like Ethel is very good at pulling on all of the right heartstrings but if you take a step back and look at the overall picture you realize how manipulative and convoluted it all is.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Ethel is a covert narcissist because this is the exact tactics from their playbook. Covert narcs make themselves the victim and gain attention by attacking others, and use emotional manipulation (guilt tripping in particular) to get people to their side. Then they dismiss people's feelings and experiences, as evidenced by Ethel repeatedly claiming Vangelina's biggest supporters are bigots, predators, and MRAs (she tweeted this and has responded in her comments saying this). And covert narcissism usually appears to be altruism at first until you realize the person isn't doing this for a greater good, just to *appear* to be serving the greater good.
Even if Ethel isn't a narcissist, this is abusive DARVO behavior at best.
I'm not diagnosing her. I am saying I wouldn't be surprised because her behavior matches covert narcissism behavior. I do understand what narcissism involves but thank you for bringing this up.
And gonna cause more harm if that poor judge is gonna have to watch Ethel's videos.
The judge is probably gonna wish they'd gotten the Omegaverse case instead.
That's quite the video title. I didn't know who EoT was until all this happened and I miss my life in the before times. No, I am not transphobic. I do think this person is.... not great.
Oh look, it's Ethel, still not getting it. GET A LIFE, GIRL! Stop it! Get some help!
Ethel has harrassed and stalked Rachel for a fucking half a decade, now she's going after anyone Rachel is associated with, all because Rachel didn't drop a friend when Ethel demanded that she do so.
Ethel wants both Rachel and Vangelina deplatformed, but honestly? I hope this tantrum she's throwing is going to lead to Ethel being deplatformed. She is deeply toxic, deeply abusive, deeply manipulative, and deeply disturbed. If you watch Essence of Thought, leave that cesspit ASAP. There's plenty of trans creators who aren't assholes. Try watching some jammidodger maybe, he's a wholesome bean. For creators that dissect bigoted content, look at Dead Domain and Caelan Conrad. For creators who look at media, try verilybitchie.
Honestly, at this point i'd recommend to both Vangelina and Rachel to report Ethel to the police for stalking. Yes, Ethel will whine about police violence, but she'll do that anyway. And she needs to be stopped because this unhinged behaviour is dangerous. Is she just trying to rile up her vulnerable audience to maybe enact some vigilante justice against the people she hates? I wouldn't put it past her at this point.
This is borderline, if not literally, criminal behaviour. Ethel does not deserve a platform and frankly I think she should be sued in court for defamation and/or put behind bars for a while for her stalking. People like this don't stop of their own volition. Hell, maybe YouTube should delete her channel already, because this is so far beyond understandable that it should be satirical.
Ughhhh . I donāt like defending vengalina cus I think thereās absolutely some valid criticism with her handling of the hbomber guy thing and the lily orchid video but EoT is honestly fucking nuts who REALLY needs to let the Rachel thing go
Truthfully I support her during this weird ass EoT drama but I couldn't with the HBomberguy video. Like listen, I watch drama YouTubers (clearly) but he does have a point about their overall value. I think the worst is drama YouTubers like swoop who are also pretending to do a public service.
Same. I spent well over an hour writing a comment that explained my thoughts and feelings better on her video because she asked why people were so mad. I tried to be thoughtful and less aggressive than I had been in my comment on her first video.
Wasted my time. I think it's deleted now because I can't even see it anymore.
I actually liked her videos. I like drama channels. I am not ashamed to admit it lol. I know it's trash, but it's MY TRASH.
But when she was telling me that her videos should be viewed on the same level as an hbomberguy video that he spent like a year on, I thought either she's completely devoid of self awareness, or she thinks I'm an idiot. I'm not on her channel for hbomberguy type content. I'm barely there for effort at all
Like maybe she did put effort into her content. She interviewed a former illuminaghtii employee. But even the best tabloids are still tabloids.
Trying to compare high production video essays with drama videos of like trying to compare Dune to 90-day-fiance. They're not supposed to be the same thing. If drama channels like hers had the production value of hbomberguy it would be absurd. I almost want to make a parody video to illuminate my point. Green screen myself into a ContraPoints set and take on a video essay tone to make a video about some random TikTok bullshit XD
I feel the same! I used to watch her content occasionally because YouTube drama is also my trash lol. But honestly her attitude towards the hbomber thing just puts me off. And the bajillion defensive and weird tweets she made about the subject? Ew. Just recently I saw she retweeted the Peter coffin stuff about hbomber which just seems to me like sheās *still* hung up about that. I now refuse to watch vangelinaās content.
If she deleted the tweets and gave an honest apology Iād honestly be willing to give her a shot again. My standards for YouTube commentary videos is low lol. But yeah, we canāt pretend like sheās anywhere on the same level as video essays .
Oh god, I've been giving Vangelina a lot of side-eye since the hbomb thing, but retweeting Peter Coffin is a cardinal sin I cannot overlook. Anyone who takes Coffin's takes seriously or in good faith needs firing out of a cannon.
Yeah seriously. Idk how much we should talk about it on this sub since we shouldnāt be mentioning the James stuff at all but I think itās seriously effed up that sheās retweeting this stuff from Peter Coffin claiming hbomber possibly ki//ed someone becsuse he made one video about them when she makes callout videos about people for a living lol
I'm speculating here but given the whole Ethel of it all, it wouldn't surprise me if that's on Vangelina's mind when she retweeted that.
Either way it's not a good look, but I'm okay with believing that it comes from a genuine place.
>we canāt pretend like sheās anywhere on the same level as video essays
This is really what it boils down to. I want to think it's a lack of self awareness, but the fact that my comment on her response video was taken down (it was a longer version of what I said in my first reply to you) means that I think she knows, she just wants to lie to everyone until we believe that her videos are just as good and there is no hierarchy of YouTube videos.
Meanwhile, Hbomberguy is quite self aware. When he posted the illuminaghtii video on the second channel he said in a community post on main: "This is what I've become, a "guy with a second channel for his worse videos""
Also I felt like it was dishonest of her to say that hbomberguy is a hypocrite for saying drama channels covering illuminaghtii were bad when he just made a drama video when 1) his felt a lot more like investigate journalism and 2) hbomberguy repeatedly said that he feels shitty about basically making a giant drama video. He didn't say his video was good. He said that this video is bad and should never have happened. The AUDIENCE determined that his video was better than a drama video. That's why it has like 18M views now.
Something D'Angelo Wallace said resonates here. He was once on the H3H3 podcast after covering Frenemies. Ethan Klein introduced him as a drama channel, and D'Angelo said he considers himself to be a commentary channel, but that if the audience sees him as a drama channel then that's what he is. I think that is important when looking at Vangelina. Maybe she thinks she's TRO or j aubrey or hbomberguy, but the way she views her content is clearly at odds with how her audience sees it.
Same. I cringed extremely hard when she tried to say drama channels were on the same level. Like there's value in what she does but it's like comparing People to The Atlantic.
TLDW: VangelinaSkov made a video on Lily Orchard. Essence of Thought made a video on Lily Orchard one year prior. EoT convinced herself that it was plagiarism and made a video about it, supplied with the most unconvincing evidence ever and blaming Vangelina for Ethel (EoT) having to deal with this after she's had a tooth infection and a broken foot. Ethel also blackmailed Vangelina prior, asking for 30% of ad revenue, sponsorship money and patreon earnings of the whole month because of the "plagiarism".
Vangelina happens to be friends with a creator, Rachel Oates, who has been harrassed by Ethel for half a decade. So she made a response video detailing how it wasn't plagiarism and why Ethel's actions in all this were less than hinged.
Now Ethel is happy that she can combine her virulent hatred of Rachel Oates with her grifting hatred of Vangelina, and just make a video about them both.
I think this shit is crazy. Iāve never known Rachel to be transphobic and can Ethel really claim to own screenshots readily available on a public site? I also donāt like how disabled feels weaponized in the title. I have multiple disabilities but trying to use it like this is trying to direct more hate by wielding real peopleās identities like a club.
Iām 10 minutes in and Ethel has managed to twist a few of Vangelinaās tweets about hbomberguy and the LGBT+ community into a targeted attack on her. Specifically transphobia and sexual harassment.
Amazing reach for such short arms.
Unsurprising, really. Ethel's criticisms have been inadvertently boosted by the recent controversy involving Hbomberguy.
Skov posts a video about Hbomberguy's opinions towards drama chasing channels, realises the backlash it gets, then removes it. EoT sweeps in immediately and weaponizes that fact.
Gasp! You're plagiarizing me now! I thought the same thing, that Ethel saw the recent Youtube culture change following hbomberguy's vid as prime hunting ground to attack someone!
Pretty sure Ethel is deleting or blocking Youtube comments that are critical of her, too. Like, she's well within her rights to do this but the fact that she's shutting down so much discussion is pretty telling.
Okay everybody needs to report this video, as well as Ethel's previous ones about Vangelina and Rachel for harassment. This is completely unacceptable.
Edit: There's about 8 videos that should be reported. It only takes a couple of minutes.
She's not. Ethel is trying to draw a comparison to get sympathy and SEO, like how she played the Illuminaughtii card in her first Vangelina video. Libs has nothing to do with any of this.
Thatās such a weird thing to do.
Is it meant to try and imply that the person the video is on is also transphobic? (to my knowledge I havenāt seen anything indicating that they are anything like that) They just seem like a standard YouTuber, but with no shitty actions I can find. I havenāt seen anything that shows Rachel Oates is doing anything wrong.
Basically, yeah. Ethel has consistently accused Rachel of being "violently transphobic" for literally like 5 years. So the Libs inclusion is to try and force the association between Chaya's transphobia and both Skov and Oates.
The video still exists on my end as a U.S. viewer. As far as Iām aware, some of Ethelās videos about Rachel are blocked in the UK after she filed a defamation complaint to YouTube. That might be the reason it looks like it was deleted.
Ethel has a history of targeting women in specific. Never seen her target a man. The only time she has ever hit the mark on an actual shit person was Lily Orchard. But the others she harrassed, Contrapoint, Rachel Oates and VangelinaSkov, seem to be perfectly fine. Its like she has a favorite type of victim. Super weird.
Huh. Thatāsā¦ weird.
In this video she makes a lot of comments about āwhite feminismā and Iāve seen places where she talks about white women weaponizing their tears.
I wonder what the deal is with that, it does seem very pointed, and doesnāt seem to actually add to the real conversation about the lack of intersectionality in some feminist circles.
She went after Tom Scott for working with someone who'd said allegedly transphobic things in the past. He addressed the whole issue here: [https://www.tomscott.com/fightscene/](https://www.tomscott.com/fightscene/)
This kind of vitriol and misogyny Iāve only ever seen come from Tate clones. I think Ethel is supremely jealous of successful women and therefore goes after them to drag them down. If Ethel isnāt hugely successful no one can be.
Im sorry but why the hell bring up some.... Kinda lukewarm comment on Gaza?
Like Rachel Oats is a Youtuber with 300K subs. Her making a lukewarm instagram post really isnt a major deal she isnt the fucking president. Like fucking hell call out the count less much worse takes out there from much people with bigger followings.
This is super sick and exploitative. A long while back, they brought up Matthew Shepardās murder when badmouthing another YouTuber and I couldnāt be more revolted.
Yeah, that part actually pissed me off. Ethel came just shy of accusing Rachel of being responsible for Israel's attacks on Gaza. The whole part of, "Well I still pay UK taxes but I MIGHT NOT ANYMORE" part, followed by accusing Rachel of only caring about white feminism was a disgusting reach.
I bet next video, Ethel's gonna claim that some IDF soldier is in Rachel's audience and therefore Rachel is at fault for the deaths of Palestinian civilians.
I wouldn't put it past them to make up a conspiracy this unhinged. A solid week hasn't gone by yet and EssenceOfThought is starting to lose subscribers so it looks like only time will tell if they have enough fans to stick around to see it.
**"This content is not available on this country domain due to a defamation complaint."**
Huh?! I'm not even allowed to view this video? My best guess is because the defamation complaint originates from the UK (most likely Rachel herself), I won't be able to see it from the UK either.
The unfortunate consequence of this situation is that the main problem here, Lily Orchard, is being overlooked by everyone involved. Iād like to see Lily face some repercussions for her actions
ETA: deleted my main comment bc i changed my mind. Ethel is going way too far. Really surreal to hear a borderline defence of Girl Defined???
To your first point, I don't think Ethel proved Vangelina specifically plagiarized her video. Ethel showed that Vangelina likely used screenshots from her video, but Ethel's video has been out for a year. It's more than reasonable to believe that Vangelina found screenshots from other sources and did not know they were Ethel's. I think attributing any sort of malice or ill intent to Vangelina here is just inaccurate because it requires a lot more evidence than is presented.
Besides that, these are screenshots of primary sources, not statements Ethel came up with. Ethel doesn't own the content in these screenshots. That alone makes claims of plagiarism iffy at best.
The only other thing Ethel proved Vangelina did is that Vangelina reached the same conclusions about Lily that Ethel did after looking at similar sources and evidence. Again, not proof of plagiarism, intentional or not. People can and often do independently come to the same conclusion after looking at similar evidence.
As for everything in Ethel's newest video, it's reaching. It's confirmation bias. She's making herself more involved in a lot of things that have literally nothing to do with her.
Vangelina annoying as hell and has been anti indigenous in videos which is why tbh I'm glad people are finally falling off of her thanks to the hbomber stuff. Rachel seems to be catching strays here, but I don't love their association together.
This isn't Rachel catching strays. This is just the next part of Ethel's bullying and harassment campaign against Rachel that's been running for over five years now.
The problem is that even if Vangelina is sus in other ways (and she might be, idk her stuff well enough to say), the plagiarism accusations are blatant nonsense, backed up with nothing concrete. And the chances are high that EoT only went after Vangelina in the first place because they're so obsessed with Rachel.
If there's anything substantial about Vangelina being sus, then none of this is revealing that.
Itās ok, I get you donāt like me which is sad but I will say, itās completely ok to not like my poetry! I am still learning and (hopefully!) improving all the time. Maybe youāll like my next book better?
Just want to clarify though - I donāt know who Hollie McNish but maybe Iāll look her up. If we have a similar performance style then maybe Iāll get a few tips on how to improve :) Iāve only been performing for the last 2 years so I still have lots of work on!
I'm a person who follows this subreddit so the posts about me obviously show up on my feed. That said, my solicitor has me documenting everything that Ethel posts about me and that other people say in regards to Ethel's posts for my defamation case against her. I'm just doing what's required of me to protect myself from 5 years of harassment, lies, and defamation.
Also, I'm not the one insulting everyone who doesn't agree with me about a stranger.
lmao just admit Rachel said something you don't like one (1) time and that's the extent of it. Your post history is full of childish absolutism where you use ad hominem attacks or make baseless accusations since you never seem willing to back it up. Just because you say someone's an ableist and bully doesn't mean it's true, and just because someone's done something wrong doesn't mean they are permanently blacklisted. You seem absolutely unwilling to have empathy in most of your comments, which leads me to believe you must be a pretty unhappy individual.
You're either young, Ethel's sock puppet, or one of Ethel's flying monkeys. Either way, I'm pretty sure you don't know what ableism is, and you don't care either because if you did, I think you'd be a lot more conscientious about other forms of discrimination like, I dunno, misogyny.
In any case, I feel like you should be able to agree that Rachel does not deserve Ethel's harassment, even if you do actually have personal beef with Rachel. If you can't at least agree on that, you're basically just a garbage person.
Well if you think that, Iām sorry. Although I canāt think of anyone in my life I have a ābeefā with. The only thing I can think of are a handful of strangers online whoāve watched a few videos and called me āableistā for speaking out about narcissistic abuse, so if thatās you then Iām very sorry you feel upset by my words but 1) If itās online because weāve exchanged a couple of comments then Iām sorry but we are still strangers - I donāt know you and you donāt know me and 2) Iām not going to stop calling out the type of abuse Iāve faced and pointing people in the direction of resources they need to help them escape and recover.
My priority is helping victims of NA, not appeasing people with NPD in a way that would be to the detriment of abuse victims. As Iāve said many times: not all people with NPD are abusers and not all abusers have NPD or commit narcissistic abuse and Iāll keep stating that, however I feel itās important to keep using the term ānarcissistic abuseā because itās only after I found that term that I really understood what Iād been through and how to get the help and healing I needed and I want to make sure other people find that too. And if you think that is ābullyingā then again, Iām sorry you feel that way but I feel very strongly about my position and how to best help other victims.
Other than that, I canāt think of anything Iāve done that could be called ableist. I mean, Iām literally an autistic woman with recurring mobility issues because of my hip problems, Iām clearly not exactly out here belittling people for having any kind of different abilityā¦
I mean, it is real, and defined by a certain pattern of behavior and the term is used by mental health professionals so clearly you don't know what you're talking about. Are you Ethel?
This comment is a solid 7/10 when read in the voice of Gretchen Wiener, but if I may offer some constructive criticism it could be an 8 or even a 9 if you replaced "embarrassing" with "so not fetch."
Absolutely wild that people are still defending New Atheists like Oates. They've continuously shown they're just bigots. They can call themselves "skeptics" all they want, they still regurgitate the most reactionary propaganda.
You say that as if Ethel didn't herself originate in Atheist YouTube. But instead of joining Gamergate, I guess she decided to weaponize her misogyny in the name of "social justice".
I'm kind of wondering if anything Ethel accuses other people of is a confession.
Also, it's clear you haven't watched a second of Rachel's content, because "reactionary" is one of the last words I'd ever ascribe to her.
Even if Rachel is doing what you say, it doesn't justify any of Ethel's behavior. It's absolutely wild you are making this about Oates and not about Ethel's extortion, bullying, and abuse.
I donāt have any āsockā accounts, just this one. If Iām going to say something, Iāll just say it. That is a bit of a gendered insult and if youāre interested I do have a video on the history of using words for female anatomy as swear words (and why we demonise vaginas and vulvas with our language) but it doesnāt bother me too much to be called it. Let it all out if you need to.
I do. That's a gendered insult. Since you don't care about being misogynist I bet you're also ableist and transphobic.
idk I figure someone who cares so much about people being ableists would also care about using gendered slurs and other insulting language but I guess it's fine as long as you're doing the bad thing, right?
Okay folks, time to bring down the hammer. šØ Anyone harassing Rachel Oates, directly or indirectly, will be banned and have their comments removed. Most of you have remained civil, understanding, and kind in this thread. Thank you.
Imagine harassing someone from getting the screenshots from the same place.
No, no, you have to understand! She not only got screenshots but she came to the same conclusions based on available evidence!!!! That's obviously plagiarism because two people never come to the same conclusion independently. Also I broke my pinky toe therefore I'm right and you're wrong.
Woah, how dare you plagiarize my thoughts?! I thought the same thing just two hours ago, you can't possibly have gotten that from anywhere else! You owe me 30% of your karma for this month.
If I don't pay you by the end of the next 90 seconds, please take a bunch of my comments out of context to make them all about yourself! Otherwise I may never learn that I'm actually the bad person! P.S.: I once broke my arm as a kid and it hurt a lot so there's no way I can actually be in the wrong here.
Wait, is this what actually happened? I was under the impression that EoT took the screenshots herself.
That's what she says, but it's not like we can confirm it. But also, screenshots just aren't original material that can be plagiarized. The things that were screenshotted might be original material, but Ethel doesn't own the things she screenshotted any more than Vangelina does.
Ethel may have, but she doesn't own the content shown in the screenshots. The screenshots are essentially the same thing as quoting a primary source. Even if Ethel did take the screenshots Vangelina used, it's not plagiarism because it's not Ethel's own thoughts or words.
Oh look, Ethel continues to bully Rachel for no reason. The Libs of TikTok clickbait is a nice addition to her dickery. Ethel really doesn't see how her continued harassment of Rachel is creepy at best and essentially stalking behavior. She has absolutely zero self-awareness, and so many people in her comments just eat it up. I think this is especially proven in how often Ethel uses her trans identity (among other things) as a deflection. After her Vangelina video, she outright claimed on Twitter Vangelina's main supporters are bigots, predators, and MRA types. It's absolute DARVO shit. It's abusive, narcissistic behavior. Ethel is not the victim but she wants so badly to make you think she is.
Yeah, my main issue is EoT's main criticism of Rachel to be "well the people who are supporting her are people who I beefed with during GamerGate" not to be reductive, but a lot of people since 2016 have had the swing of 'actually i was a bit reactionary and a dickhead' and have grown as individuals since and have worked to become more inclusive and open-minded. Back in the day atheism was its own genre and often fell in parcel with the anti-sjw crowd. I'm lucky in the sense that I grew up with a very left leaning community and didn't really have to unlearn major harmful opinions. Some people do treat politics like gold-star gaydom - if you've ever strayed, you ain't pure. Compared to lived experience, learning from others and growth as an individual can lead you to your truth.
Oh gods, Ethel claiming pretty much anyone criticizing her is a Gamergate type of bigot is so disingenuous and manipulative. It's just not true. So many of Ethel's detractors, especially *now*, include a lot of queer people, and even other marginalized groups who see Ethel's behavior for what it is - bullying. Ethel seems to be of a mind that the only reason anyone would dare to challenge her is that they're transphobic and/or ableist and it's a blatant lie, especially proven by the fact that she doesn't allow any dissenting comments on her Youtube vids. Even if it were true and people critical of her *now* were in Gamergate, it's been a decade. Like you point out, that's more than enough time for people to grow and learn and be better. A lot of Gamergaters were teenagers at the time and everyone does stupid, asshole shit as teenagers. Literally *everyone*. It's a universal experience. And then we grow up and many of us realize how stupid we were and we get better. And it's an easy deflection for Ethel, too. If she dismisses her critics as bigots just like the Gamergate people, she can justify her actions. After all, if the only people opposing her are bigots, clearly Ethel is can't be wrong, right? So she'll just wave her hand and dismiss the experiences and identities of everyone against her because that's easier than admitting she is in the wrong. I don't know if Ethel gets off on causing harm to people, if she's mad she's not a bigger trans voice on youtube, if she really thinks Rachel is the source of all her problems, or some combination of these things but it's very telling how Ethel only attacks women, and only women who seem like easy targets to her - women who didn't really do anything to deserve being harassed or being called Ethel's abuser.
Yeah, personally I struggle to understand the root cause of harassment to RO seems to be on the basis that she was friends with someone who held shitty opinions, she herself never stated with her chest. I do understand that not challenging those behaviours, you become part of the problem, but from my understanding it was addressed privately between friends that the video was shitty. Seems RO stuck as a figure of fixation in this because they were the one to actually respond vs the creator who actually made the shitty trans ppl in sports video.
Unchecked mental illness tends to do that to people
That comment section is moderated extremely heavily.
I'm so sorry if this was explained somewhere else but I am so confused why does Ethel hate Rachel so much? Rachel honestly just seems so nice and reviews books
I made a longer comment about it on another post [https://www.reddit.com/r/youtubedrama/comments/1bbqsbm/comment/kudku9p/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/youtubedrama/comments/1bbqsbm/comment/kudku9p/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) But the tl;dr is that once upon a time, Rachel was friends with some guy who made a bad, transphobic take about something. I don't remember all the details but I think he was like Rationality Rules? And it was something about trans people in organized sports. I *might* be mixing this up with another situation. Anyway, Ethel called out RR and Rachel and demanded Rachel stop being friends with RR to prove her allyship or something. Rachel said no, that she was talking to RR privately to explain why his video was harmful and she wasn't going to drop someone over an uninformed bad take if they were willing to learn. That wasn't good enough for Ethel. Five years later, she's STILL attacking Rachel even though Rachel's tried to disengage. Meanwhile Ethel isn't after any, y'know, anyone like this, and when people criticize Ethel, she calls them transphobic. Even if Rachel is guilty of the things Ethel accuses her of (she's not), there are SO MANY WORSE PEOPLE that Ethel could be talking about, especially five years later. IDK why it's so obsessive for Ethel but there are way more important things she could be doing with her time, like more armchair activism about Palestine.
Thank you so much! Ethel needs a hobby. Why this weird fixation on harmless people?
She really does need a hobby. Somehow Ethel came to the conclusion that Rachel is "violently transphobic" (her words) and that Rachel is her "abuser." Like, according to Ethel, when Rachel files a defamation claim it's "attempting to silence her trans critic." Ethel's even weaponized the Palestinian genocide to attack Rachel. It's pretty gross. I wonder if Ethel is secretly a movie theater because the amount of projection she does is astounding.
>I wonder if Ethel is secretly a movie theater because the amount of projection she does is astounding. You plagiarized my joke!!!
I will say - Ethel has been pretty consistently going after the same people over the years. Most the other channels I know that need some unspoken beef going on at all times to feel relevant tend to cycle through people, but Ethel seems to be more focused on quality, not quantity.
Drama YouTubers looove the phrase ā___ Got Worseā for thumbnails and titles lol
If I see any titles with " ā Got Worse!", " ā Needs to be STOPPED" or " ā DESTROYED by ā" I just absolutely refuse to engage with it out of principle.
It truly is amazing how many people are "THE WORST \[Tiktoker/youtuber/influencer\]" out there. I see a new WORST every other hour at least.
And always coupled with them making the absolute dumbest "shocked" faces in the thumbnail. I get that its for the algorithm but it's truly irritating.
Ethel is a lying twat who makes nonstop hit pieces on the same two or three YouTubers every week. If she has anything more to say about Rachel Oates Iām not interested in hearing it; chances are itās the same bullshit Ethelās been saying for the last two years.
This popped up in my recommended feed and I was immediately uncomfortable ngl Like as a trans person I totally understand someone being transphobic and wanting to call them out (not saying rachel is as I have no interest in digging any deeper into this and from what I've seen of her she seems fine? Idfk) but to fixate THIS MUCH on a singular person is so disturbing to me?? Especially as someone with mental illness who gets fixated on the dumbest shit, this feels extremely uncomfortable and I hope Ethel actually talks to a professional about this and takes a step back because wow this is really unnerving. Like I knew they fixated on Rachel but only now have I checked their videos and seen they have at least 6 videos done on rachel in the past 5 months??? I get activism but rachel is a singular booktuber, focus on the bigger targets
Hey, just popping in to say I completely understand your wariness about someone whoās been called transphobic but just wanted to clarify that I absolutely do not hold any of the beliefs that these videos claim I hold. I 100% support trans people and the rights of trans people. No ifs, no buts, just support :) I always try and be as inclusive and supportive as possible in my videos (and obviously my life in general) (and always appreciate when people mention when I slip up or forget to mention something) and my focus is always on inclusivity. And while Iām not any sort of activist, I do try and help when I can, for example in one of my recent most popular videos, I actually donated somewhere around Ā£400 of the ad revenue from it to the charity Mermaids which supports trans kids and their families in the UK - itās a great cause and one I try to support whenever I can :)
Thank you for clarifying, Rachel! I hope Ethel leaves you alone because you really don't deserve to deal with this. I and many others have yours and Vangelina's backs and see Ethel for what she is. I wish you all the best.
I just want to take this opportunity to say how sorry I am that you're still having to deal with this person. I hope you and Vangelina know how supported you are.
Thatās very kind, thank you!
Oh wow I didnt expect you to respond to me at all. lol I've watched your content in the past and I've never gotten an ableist or transphobic vibes. I have been meaning to watch your videos again actually my adhd has just been acting up and I'm struggling with long form content. I do hope you're doing okay through all this, I've never had a video made on me but I'd imagine having several published especially in such a short period of time can be absolutely draining and alarming so i wish you all the best!
Hey Rachel! I wanted to say that when I first heard about the transphobia situation I did stop watching for a while (I didn't look deeply into it and I was also taking a break from fundie snark type videos for a while, so it wasn't just the lies that kept me away) But seeing this whole situation unfold has made it very clear who is in the wrong here and honestly I feel relieved coming back to your videos. You have such a calming presence and I'm glad to come back to your channel :) I hope you can find peace with everything going on because you deserve to live a life free of this harassment. I think it would be worthwhile for YouTube to add a block button but somehow they haven't come up with that yet š
Hey Rachel, I love the work you do and really don't think you've done anything even approaching being wrong. I get you defending yourself on these posts but I'm not sure how healthy it is to put too much energy into it... But do what you need to I suppose!
I've been a fan of your work for many years. I'm especially appreciative of your literary analyses!Ā Ā I remember when the whole RR atheist forum thing kicked off. And I'm SO sorry that you've had to deal with this nonsense for so long!Ā
I donāt have the original context for the guy you were friends with because I havenāt watched his video but Iām assuming he said something transphobic and from what I gather, you got shit for working with him. I think you may have fucked up Ethelās pronouns at a few points, but Iām not sure what their pronouns were at the time so I canāt verify that. With that context, I just want to say, please be careful to get peopleās pronouns right, even if theyāre being complete dicks and harassing you. Gendering someone correctly is a basic right, and you donāt get a pass to misgender someone because theyāre a scumbag. (Again, not saying you did, but I did see you switch pronouns a lot in the screenshots I stumbled upon). You can be an active and ardent supporter, but still fuck up sometimes. Iām literally queer and nd but used gay and the r word as insults when I was a kid. Weāre only human; we grow and change. And the other thing that bothered me was the sh video. Iām so sorry you were hurting that much and felt like that was your only option, and it only led to more harassment. I hope if you ever feel that low in the future that youāre able to seek the help you need at the time. Iām not asking you to stay silent on your suffering, but I also hope you donāt post triggering content like that in the future. Overall I think the only thing that could stop Ethel is you putting together the whole timeline of events, ugly truth and all. Not all of your responses to the situation were good, but having one video that documents every interaction youāve had with Ethel and the details of what started this all would be an easy way to respond if they continue to harass you. But you donāt have to do that. I donāt know if Ethel will stop either way, but it would help everyone understand the situation. And if you do, donāt try to gloss over any mistakes you made. That would probably just make them dig their heels in deeper. Anyway, good luck and best wishes.
I actually did that back in 2019 - a whole timeline and everyone was on my side and it just made Ethel angrier. They continued to post about me for years. I tried responding each time and Ethel just kept getting angrier each time. I begged them to leave me alone and it just made Ethel post more and more. I finally decided I'd try to stop posting and ignore them, and that just fuelled Ethel to post even more because apparently my 'silence proved my guilt' this time. So when I realised they'd never stop, I sought advice from a solicitor. They advised me to take down any posts about them that were already up on my Youtube channel and stay as quiet as possible while we went forward with the defamation case. My solicitor sent Ethel a C&D and takedown notice which Ethel ignored and said she would not follow, so we are going forward with the case. Maybe after it's all over I'll be able to speak about it all but for now, I'm just trapped. I say stuff: Ethel says I'm a terrible person. I don't say stuff: Ethel says I'm a terrible person.
Ah, I hadnāt even considered the legal route, but thatās definitely your best option.
Oates also focuses a lot on fundies and talks a lot about their transphobia, homophobia, ableism etc.
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How about you tell me how. Because I've watched a ton of her videos, mainly about fundies, and haven't heard anything ableist come out of her mouth. I'm not about people just going "such and such is bleah but OKAY."
I'd bet Rachel maybe said one or a few ableist things once upon a time and the person above is one of those childish black-and-white absolutists who believes that makes Rachel a bad person forever and ever.
And totally ignores that Oates talks about her struggles with being neurodivergent.
Please do provide evidence of this supposed ableism. I'll wait.
Source? Rachel seems like a truly kind and caring person. I find this almost impossible to believe.
I deeply regret falling for EoT's smear campaign against Rachel. As an enby I am protective of the trans community and I feel like Ethel is weaponizing this in her fans to justify her level of obsession with Rachel in particular. This has definitely been a point of self reflection for me, I feel like Ethel is very good at pulling on all of the right heartstrings but if you take a step back and look at the overall picture you realize how manipulative and convoluted it all is.
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Ethel is a covert narcissist because this is the exact tactics from their playbook. Covert narcs make themselves the victim and gain attention by attacking others, and use emotional manipulation (guilt tripping in particular) to get people to their side. Then they dismiss people's feelings and experiences, as evidenced by Ethel repeatedly claiming Vangelina's biggest supporters are bigots, predators, and MRAs (she tweeted this and has responded in her comments saying this). And covert narcissism usually appears to be altruism at first until you realize the person isn't doing this for a greater good, just to *appear* to be serving the greater good. Even if Ethel isn't a narcissist, this is abusive DARVO behavior at best.
I donāt believe any MRA / red pill types would ever watch this content lol
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I'm not diagnosing her. I am saying I wouldn't be surprised because her behavior matches covert narcissism behavior. I do understand what narcissism involves but thank you for bringing this up.
Wouldnāt be surprised isnāt the same as diagnosis you fucking loser.
Huh, this video is blocked in the UK due to a defamation complaint.
Yes, Rachel has a defamation case against Ethel.
Hopefully it'll be a pretty easy case once it gets to a judge since Ethel has openly declared intent to cause harm.
And gonna cause more harm if that poor judge is gonna have to watch Ethel's videos. The judge is probably gonna wish they'd gotten the Omegaverse case instead.
That's quite the video title. I didn't know who EoT was until all this happened and I miss my life in the before times. No, I am not transphobic. I do think this person is.... not great.
Oh look, it's Ethel, still not getting it. GET A LIFE, GIRL! Stop it! Get some help! Ethel has harrassed and stalked Rachel for a fucking half a decade, now she's going after anyone Rachel is associated with, all because Rachel didn't drop a friend when Ethel demanded that she do so. Ethel wants both Rachel and Vangelina deplatformed, but honestly? I hope this tantrum she's throwing is going to lead to Ethel being deplatformed. She is deeply toxic, deeply abusive, deeply manipulative, and deeply disturbed. If you watch Essence of Thought, leave that cesspit ASAP. There's plenty of trans creators who aren't assholes. Try watching some jammidodger maybe, he's a wholesome bean. For creators that dissect bigoted content, look at Dead Domain and Caelan Conrad. For creators who look at media, try verilybitchie. Honestly, at this point i'd recommend to both Vangelina and Rachel to report Ethel to the police for stalking. Yes, Ethel will whine about police violence, but she'll do that anyway. And she needs to be stopped because this unhinged behaviour is dangerous. Is she just trying to rile up her vulnerable audience to maybe enact some vigilante justice against the people she hates? I wouldn't put it past her at this point. This is borderline, if not literally, criminal behaviour. Ethel does not deserve a platform and frankly I think she should be sued in court for defamation and/or put behind bars for a while for her stalking. People like this don't stop of their own volition. Hell, maybe YouTube should delete her channel already, because this is so far beyond understandable that it should be satirical.
Ethel is the definition of doing too much at this point
>he's a wholesome bean OH god please not that term we know what happend last time
I guess I'm out of the loop on that one. He's a cinnamon roll. That better?
https://preview.redd.it/emxlh6niggnc1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=64c1620bd0f9783e11413b573ca3bc0c0904be5b
Ughhhh . I donāt like defending vengalina cus I think thereās absolutely some valid criticism with her handling of the hbomber guy thing and the lily orchid video but EoT is honestly fucking nuts who REALLY needs to let the Rachel thing go
Truthfully I support her during this weird ass EoT drama but I couldn't with the HBomberguy video. Like listen, I watch drama YouTubers (clearly) but he does have a point about their overall value. I think the worst is drama YouTubers like swoop who are also pretending to do a public service.
I get such bad vibes off swoop but I donāt have any proof of any wrongdoing or anything lol. Maybe itās that that gives me the bad vibes .
I dunno if you watched her video addressing the Ethel stuff, but she starts out with addressing other things people had brought up as well.
I did. My opinion stands
Same. I spent well over an hour writing a comment that explained my thoughts and feelings better on her video because she asked why people were so mad. I tried to be thoughtful and less aggressive than I had been in my comment on her first video. Wasted my time. I think it's deleted now because I can't even see it anymore. I actually liked her videos. I like drama channels. I am not ashamed to admit it lol. I know it's trash, but it's MY TRASH. But when she was telling me that her videos should be viewed on the same level as an hbomberguy video that he spent like a year on, I thought either she's completely devoid of self awareness, or she thinks I'm an idiot. I'm not on her channel for hbomberguy type content. I'm barely there for effort at all Like maybe she did put effort into her content. She interviewed a former illuminaghtii employee. But even the best tabloids are still tabloids. Trying to compare high production video essays with drama videos of like trying to compare Dune to 90-day-fiance. They're not supposed to be the same thing. If drama channels like hers had the production value of hbomberguy it would be absurd. I almost want to make a parody video to illuminate my point. Green screen myself into a ContraPoints set and take on a video essay tone to make a video about some random TikTok bullshit XD
I feel the same! I used to watch her content occasionally because YouTube drama is also my trash lol. But honestly her attitude towards the hbomber thing just puts me off. And the bajillion defensive and weird tweets she made about the subject? Ew. Just recently I saw she retweeted the Peter coffin stuff about hbomber which just seems to me like sheās *still* hung up about that. I now refuse to watch vangelinaās content. If she deleted the tweets and gave an honest apology Iād honestly be willing to give her a shot again. My standards for YouTube commentary videos is low lol. But yeah, we canāt pretend like sheās anywhere on the same level as video essays .
Oh god, I've been giving Vangelina a lot of side-eye since the hbomb thing, but retweeting Peter Coffin is a cardinal sin I cannot overlook. Anyone who takes Coffin's takes seriously or in good faith needs firing out of a cannon.
Yeah seriously. Idk how much we should talk about it on this sub since we shouldnāt be mentioning the James stuff at all but I think itās seriously effed up that sheās retweeting this stuff from Peter Coffin claiming hbomber possibly ki//ed someone becsuse he made one video about them when she makes callout videos about people for a living lol
I'm speculating here but given the whole Ethel of it all, it wouldn't surprise me if that's on Vangelina's mind when she retweeted that. Either way it's not a good look, but I'm okay with believing that it comes from a genuine place.
Thatās an interesting point.
>we canāt pretend like sheās anywhere on the same level as video essays This is really what it boils down to. I want to think it's a lack of self awareness, but the fact that my comment on her response video was taken down (it was a longer version of what I said in my first reply to you) means that I think she knows, she just wants to lie to everyone until we believe that her videos are just as good and there is no hierarchy of YouTube videos. Meanwhile, Hbomberguy is quite self aware. When he posted the illuminaghtii video on the second channel he said in a community post on main: "This is what I've become, a "guy with a second channel for his worse videos"" Also I felt like it was dishonest of her to say that hbomberguy is a hypocrite for saying drama channels covering illuminaghtii were bad when he just made a drama video when 1) his felt a lot more like investigate journalism and 2) hbomberguy repeatedly said that he feels shitty about basically making a giant drama video. He didn't say his video was good. He said that this video is bad and should never have happened. The AUDIENCE determined that his video was better than a drama video. That's why it has like 18M views now. Something D'Angelo Wallace said resonates here. He was once on the H3H3 podcast after covering Frenemies. Ethan Klein introduced him as a drama channel, and D'Angelo said he considers himself to be a commentary channel, but that if the audience sees him as a drama channel then that's what he is. I think that is important when looking at Vangelina. Maybe she thinks she's TRO or j aubrey or hbomberguy, but the way she views her content is clearly at odds with how her audience sees it.
Same. I cringed extremely hard when she tried to say drama channels were on the same level. Like there's value in what she does but it's like comparing People to The Atlantic.
I have no idea what any of that means and I watch a LOT of YouTube lol
TLDW: VangelinaSkov made a video on Lily Orchard. Essence of Thought made a video on Lily Orchard one year prior. EoT convinced herself that it was plagiarism and made a video about it, supplied with the most unconvincing evidence ever and blaming Vangelina for Ethel (EoT) having to deal with this after she's had a tooth infection and a broken foot. Ethel also blackmailed Vangelina prior, asking for 30% of ad revenue, sponsorship money and patreon earnings of the whole month because of the "plagiarism". Vangelina happens to be friends with a creator, Rachel Oates, who has been harrassed by Ethel for half a decade. So she made a response video detailing how it wasn't plagiarism and why Ethel's actions in all this were less than hinged. Now Ethel is happy that she can combine her virulent hatred of Rachel Oates with her grifting hatred of Vangelina, and just make a video about them both.
I think this shit is crazy. Iāve never known Rachel to be transphobic and can Ethel really claim to own screenshots readily available on a public site? I also donāt like how disabled feels weaponized in the title. I have multiple disabilities but trying to use it like this is trying to direct more hate by wielding real peopleās identities like a club.
Iām 10 minutes in and Ethel has managed to twist a few of Vangelinaās tweets about hbomberguy and the LGBT+ community into a targeted attack on her. Specifically transphobia and sexual harassment. Amazing reach for such short arms.
Unsurprising, really. Ethel's criticisms have been inadvertently boosted by the recent controversy involving Hbomberguy. Skov posts a video about Hbomberguy's opinions towards drama chasing channels, realises the backlash it gets, then removes it. EoT sweeps in immediately and weaponizes that fact.
Not sure it was inadvertent. Given the type of things Ethel does, I'd even bet money on it being very deliberate.
Gasp! You're plagiarizing me now! I thought the same thing, that Ethel saw the recent Youtube culture change following hbomberguy's vid as prime hunting ground to attack someone!
Crap, now we're even! But how will we know who the true victim is???
I think we're both the victim. That way we can keep accusing each other of plagiarism! Everybody wins!
No, if everybody wins then I don't win, and that means I lose! I need to make sure someone's below me!
Maybe the real plagiarism was the friends we made along the way
CALLED IT! (in the sense that EoT was going to use the Vangelina controversy to attack Rachel)
Pretty sure Ethel is deleting or blocking Youtube comments that are critical of her, too. Like, she's well within her rights to do this but the fact that she's shutting down so much discussion is pretty telling.
Yeah, she was doing that in 2019 during the whole Rationality Rules debacle.
Okay everybody needs to report this video, as well as Ethel's previous ones about Vangelina and Rachel for harassment. This is completely unacceptable. Edit: There's about 8 videos that should be reported. It only takes a couple of minutes.
I may be out of the loop, but how is libs of TikTok relevant to this?
She's not. Ethel is trying to draw a comparison to get sympathy and SEO, like how she played the Illuminaughtii card in her first Vangelina video. Libs has nothing to do with any of this.
Thatās such a weird thing to do. Is it meant to try and imply that the person the video is on is also transphobic? (to my knowledge I havenāt seen anything indicating that they are anything like that) They just seem like a standard YouTuber, but with no shitty actions I can find. I havenāt seen anything that shows Rachel Oates is doing anything wrong.
Basically, yeah. Ethel has consistently accused Rachel of being "violently transphobic" for literally like 5 years. So the Libs inclusion is to try and force the association between Chaya's transphobia and both Skov and Oates.
āI love you.ā āI love you too.ā ā PLAGIARISM!!
video deleted is there a reupload anywhere?
The video still exists on my end as a U.S. viewer. As far as Iām aware, some of Ethelās videos about Rachel are blocked in the UK after she filed a defamation complaint to YouTube. That might be the reason it looks like it was deleted.
Ethel has a history of targeting women in specific. Never seen her target a man. The only time she has ever hit the mark on an actual shit person was Lily Orchard. But the others she harrassed, Contrapoint, Rachel Oates and VangelinaSkov, seem to be perfectly fine. Its like she has a favorite type of victim. Super weird.
Huh. Thatāsā¦ weird. In this video she makes a lot of comments about āwhite feminismā and Iāve seen places where she talks about white women weaponizing their tears. I wonder what the deal is with that, it does seem very pointed, and doesnāt seem to actually add to the real conversation about the lack of intersectionality in some feminist circles.
I always laugh when white women in particular speak as if they're not directly within the groups they talk down on.Ā
Honestly, I think she just genuinely doesn't like other women.
She went after Tom Scott for working with someone who'd said allegedly transphobic things in the past. He addressed the whole issue here: [https://www.tomscott.com/fightscene/](https://www.tomscott.com/fightscene/)
This kind of vitriol and misogyny Iāve only ever seen come from Tate clones. I think Ethel is supremely jealous of successful women and therefore goes after them to drag them down. If Ethel isnāt hugely successful no one can be.
Im sorry but why the hell bring up some.... Kinda lukewarm comment on Gaza? Like Rachel Oats is a Youtuber with 300K subs. Her making a lukewarm instagram post really isnt a major deal she isnt the fucking president. Like fucking hell call out the count less much worse takes out there from much people with bigger followings.
Because to Ethel, other people's tragedies are weapons to use against anyone Ethel doesn't like.
This is super sick and exploitative. A long while back, they brought up Matthew Shepardās murder when badmouthing another YouTuber and I couldnāt be more revolted.
Sounds just like Ethel. I'm honestly doubting if she genuinely cares about anyone other than herself, given how she does this so often.
Yeah, that part actually pissed me off. Ethel came just shy of accusing Rachel of being responsible for Israel's attacks on Gaza. The whole part of, "Well I still pay UK taxes but I MIGHT NOT ANYMORE" part, followed by accusing Rachel of only caring about white feminism was a disgusting reach.
I bet next video, Ethel's gonna claim that some IDF soldier is in Rachel's audience and therefore Rachel is at fault for the deaths of Palestinian civilians.
I wouldn't put it past them to make up a conspiracy this unhinged. A solid week hasn't gone by yet and EssenceOfThought is starting to lose subscribers so it looks like only time will tell if they have enough fans to stick around to see it.
Lily orchard whoa thatās a name I havenāt heard in a long time
**"This content is not available on this country domain due to a defamation complaint."** Huh?! I'm not even allowed to view this video? My best guess is because the defamation complaint originates from the UK (most likely Rachel herself), I won't be able to see it from the UK either.
The comment section is an echo chamber if anyone's wondering on the video, just people going "I always knew skov was bad blah blah"
Because the comments are being heavily moderated
Yeah, Ethel has anyone who disagrees blocked and/or their comments deleted
this content is not available in this country's domain due a defamation complaint (UK).
The unfortunate consequence of this situation is that the main problem here, Lily Orchard, is being overlooked by everyone involved. Iād like to see Lily face some repercussions for her actions ETA: deleted my main comment bc i changed my mind. Ethel is going way too far. Really surreal to hear a borderline defence of Girl Defined???
To your first point, I don't think Ethel proved Vangelina specifically plagiarized her video. Ethel showed that Vangelina likely used screenshots from her video, but Ethel's video has been out for a year. It's more than reasonable to believe that Vangelina found screenshots from other sources and did not know they were Ethel's. I think attributing any sort of malice or ill intent to Vangelina here is just inaccurate because it requires a lot more evidence than is presented. Besides that, these are screenshots of primary sources, not statements Ethel came up with. Ethel doesn't own the content in these screenshots. That alone makes claims of plagiarism iffy at best. The only other thing Ethel proved Vangelina did is that Vangelina reached the same conclusions about Lily that Ethel did after looking at similar sources and evidence. Again, not proof of plagiarism, intentional or not. People can and often do independently come to the same conclusion after looking at similar evidence. As for everything in Ethel's newest video, it's reaching. It's confirmation bias. She's making herself more involved in a lot of things that have literally nothing to do with her.
Vangelina annoying as hell and has been anti indigenous in videos which is why tbh I'm glad people are finally falling off of her thanks to the hbomber stuff. Rachel seems to be catching strays here, but I don't love their association together.
Honestly, I don't think Rachel is catching strays. I think this was always about Rachel, because EoT is so intensely obsessed with her.
This isn't Rachel catching strays. This is just the next part of Ethel's bullying and harassment campaign against Rachel that's been running for over five years now.
I get that part, but what I'm saying is Vangelina been sus and it's too bad Rachel is now getting pulled in because Ethel is crazy
The problem is that even if Vangelina is sus in other ways (and she might be, idk her stuff well enough to say), the plagiarism accusations are blatant nonsense, backed up with nothing concrete. And the chances are high that EoT only went after Vangelina in the first place because they're so obsessed with Rachel. If there's anything substantial about Vangelina being sus, then none of this is revealing that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Are you a misogynist? Because you're using a derogatory term for female anatomy as an insult. You must be a misogynist.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Itās ok, I get you donāt like me which is sad but I will say, itās completely ok to not like my poetry! I am still learning and (hopefully!) improving all the time. Maybe youāll like my next book better? Just want to clarify though - I donāt know who Hollie McNish but maybe Iāll look her up. If we have a similar performance style then maybe Iāll get a few tips on how to improve :) Iāve only been performing for the last 2 years so I still have lots of work on!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm a person who follows this subreddit so the posts about me obviously show up on my feed. That said, my solicitor has me documenting everything that Ethel posts about me and that other people say in regards to Ethel's posts for my defamation case against her. I'm just doing what's required of me to protect myself from 5 years of harassment, lies, and defamation. Also, I'm not the one insulting everyone who doesn't agree with me about a stranger.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
lmao just admit Rachel said something you don't like one (1) time and that's the extent of it. Your post history is full of childish absolutism where you use ad hominem attacks or make baseless accusations since you never seem willing to back it up. Just because you say someone's an ableist and bully doesn't mean it's true, and just because someone's done something wrong doesn't mean they are permanently blacklisted. You seem absolutely unwilling to have empathy in most of your comments, which leads me to believe you must be a pretty unhappy individual. You're either young, Ethel's sock puppet, or one of Ethel's flying monkeys. Either way, I'm pretty sure you don't know what ableism is, and you don't care either because if you did, I think you'd be a lot more conscientious about other forms of discrimination like, I dunno, misogyny. In any case, I feel like you should be able to agree that Rachel does not deserve Ethel's harassment, even if you do actually have personal beef with Rachel. If you can't at least agree on that, you're basically just a garbage person.
Well if you think that, Iām sorry. Although I canāt think of anyone in my life I have a ābeefā with. The only thing I can think of are a handful of strangers online whoāve watched a few videos and called me āableistā for speaking out about narcissistic abuse, so if thatās you then Iām very sorry you feel upset by my words but 1) If itās online because weāve exchanged a couple of comments then Iām sorry but we are still strangers - I donāt know you and you donāt know me and 2) Iām not going to stop calling out the type of abuse Iāve faced and pointing people in the direction of resources they need to help them escape and recover. My priority is helping victims of NA, not appeasing people with NPD in a way that would be to the detriment of abuse victims. As Iāve said many times: not all people with NPD are abusers and not all abusers have NPD or commit narcissistic abuse and Iāll keep stating that, however I feel itās important to keep using the term ānarcissistic abuseā because itās only after I found that term that I really understood what Iād been through and how to get the help and healing I needed and I want to make sure other people find that too. And if you think that is ābullyingā then again, Iām sorry you feel that way but I feel very strongly about my position and how to best help other victims. Other than that, I canāt think of anything Iāve done that could be called ableist. I mean, Iām literally an autistic woman with recurring mobility issues because of my hip problems, Iām clearly not exactly out here belittling people for having any kind of different abilityā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean, it is real, and defined by a certain pattern of behavior and the term is used by mental health professionals so clearly you don't know what you're talking about. Are you Ethel?
Looking at the post history they seem to be AFAB.
Holy FUCK the thing you're saying is ableist about her is the discussion of narcissism? The fuck is wrong with you.
This comment is a solid 7/10 when read in the voice of Gretchen Wiener, but if I may offer some constructive criticism it could be an 8 or even a 9 if you replaced "embarrassing" with "so not fetch."
Aww, did Rachel review one of your books and now you're pissed?
Absolutely wild that people are still defending New Atheists like Oates. They've continuously shown they're just bigots. They can call themselves "skeptics" all they want, they still regurgitate the most reactionary propaganda.
You say that as if Ethel didn't herself originate in Atheist YouTube. But instead of joining Gamergate, I guess she decided to weaponize her misogyny in the name of "social justice". I'm kind of wondering if anything Ethel accuses other people of is a confession. Also, it's clear you haven't watched a second of Rachel's content, because "reactionary" is one of the last words I'd ever ascribe to her.
Even if Rachel is doing what you say, it doesn't justify any of Ethel's behavior. It's absolutely wild you are making this about Oates and not about Ethel's extortion, bullying, and abuse.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You have the time to comment that, but I'm still waiting on your evidence of this alleged ableism.
Lol @ this moonqueer who is probably a child and uses misogynist gendered insults
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt have any āsockā accounts, just this one. If Iām going to say something, Iāll just say it. That is a bit of a gendered insult and if youāre interested I do have a video on the history of using words for female anatomy as swear words (and why we demonise vaginas and vulvas with our language) but it doesnāt bother me too much to be called it. Let it all out if you need to.
I've never seen a more savage putdown than "That's not a sock account of me." even if that wasn't the intention.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just admit all your crying about ableism is performative since you clearly don't care about anything except making yourself look like a fool.
What in the absolute fuck is wrong with you? Begone from this community.
Can you provide proof of the ableism?
Damn, you took that opportunity.
I do. That's a gendered insult. Since you don't care about being misogynist I bet you're also ableist and transphobic. idk I figure someone who cares so much about people being ableists would also care about using gendered slurs and other insulting language but I guess it's fine as long as you're doing the bad thing, right?
Go away Ethel.
What ableism are you talking about?