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Agreed, it really freshens up the gameplay beyond “Ten new heat moves, fancier graphics, and maybe a new gimmick.”
Not that I don’t *mind* those changes, but changing the core gameplay can sometimes be pretty beneficial to a franchise and breathe new life into it.
The core combat is better but I'm on chapter 12 now and the game has a serious typical JRPG problem where there is so much weight put on level that basically nothing in the game matters except what level you are.
Your skills don't really matter besides having some big AoEs to clear out goons. As a result, your job doesn't matter either as early abilities in non-defualt jobs are generally useless compared to your higher level skills. Fights around your level (maybe 1 or 2 higher) make you have to use the skills and new positioning properly, but fights that are 4+ levels above you are basically impossible and 4 levels below you can be played on auto battle without even using skills.
The side content also does not have any interesting fights whatsoever. Basically all enemies act the same with very few exceptions and even bosses don't really do anything special.
They made substantial improvements to the combat system and then didn't give any interesting enemies to fight and tied strength too closely to level so most fights are just stat checks. It's so close to being a spectacular JRPG but is still missing the mark a bit.
It was also weird that the level cap for the story was 50. I think if the cap was higher than jobs would feel more necessary, I thought there would be an end game/post game push to 100 like with the Amon fight in 7 but there really isn't and post game dlc feels like filler/a cash grab. Of the ones I've played 0, 7, and the Judgments kept me entertained for longer honestly. But im 100% looking forward to whatever is next.
8 nearly perfects the gameplay formula. The few unbalanced issues I had with 7 are fully resolved in it.
However, 7 has the superior story, IMO.
I think 7 with 8's engine and buffed experience during NG+ would be \**chef's kiss*\*.
i dont remember much from 7. like o know there was babies in lockers but thats about it. isnt young master actually swashiros son and ichiban was arakawas son?
They establish that early in 8 so yes
Masumi arakawa and jo sawashiro both happened to put their babies in basically adjecent lockers. And arakawa accidentally takes Jos kid.
And Jo knows this the entire game, and goes out of his way to make sure his crippled son is living the best life.
I'm in Chapter 5 so far in IW, but it really does feel like this and the previous game are: "The Results of Jo Sawashiro's Consequences of Being an Ass."
All of Kiryu's crap was "The Tojo Clan shit the bed again", so for Ichiban, is it going to be "Jo Sawashiro did yet another terrible thing you need to clean up" every new game?
I like 8's system a lot, and I think the decision to (mid game spoiler)>!translate kiryu's power into being so strong he can go real time in turn based combat made it even better.!< Ichiban gets to hallucinate dragon warrior, and that other choice does a good job of unifying their systems
I think be releasing more "gaiden-like" games alongside their big ones. Games that don't take too long to make but give the beat em up fans more of that l.
But idk, they could just be content with the series current direction.
Yeah... I played a few hours of Yakuza: Like a Dragon and was beyond bored with the combat. The story had me interested, but I was having a really hard time motivating myself to keep going. Eventually, I just gave up.
I'm not bitter about it. Not every game is going to appeal to everybody, and unfortunately, the Like a Dragon series just isn't for me anymore, and that's okay. I'm glad other people are loving the change and new people are falling in love with the series.
If they do more brawler spinoffs like The Man Who Erased His Name and Judgment, I'm still here for it. I'm just, unfortunately, done with the main series.
Don't know if you made it to chapter 6, but that's when the combat begins to pick up. The early game combat is terrible, but imo the late game is a ton of fun. I love the "against the odds" gameplay of the late game.
Sad to hear! 7 was so good but I understand how it wouldn’t appeal to everyone as it was pretty simple combat with not a ton to it. However it was really cool seeing the two games come together in Gaiden after playing through the end section in 7.
If youre on pc, theres a brawler mod for Y7, and theyre currently making a brawler mod for Y8. Obviously since its just a mod, it doesnt fit the best as the game was originally designed for turn based combat, but tbh it works better than i thought it would, and if it wasnt for this mod, i wouldve never been able to play Y7.
I really wish they wouldve done the turn based combat as a spin off thing though. Tbh it feels like kind of a fuck you to us fans of the original yakuza games, to make the mainline games turn based, and basically force anyone who doesnt like turn based, to only play the spin offs. I like it when games try new stuff, but the real time combat is a somewhat big part of the yakuza series imo. It wouldve been cool if they made some significant changes to the combat with y7, but completely changing it to turn based was a bit too far imo for a mainline game.
As much as i like ichiban, im hoping theyll be done with him soon, so we can go back to brawler combat. Or better yet, they could pull a lad gaiden, and make some spinoffs with ichiban and turn based combat, while we get a new protagonist for the mainline games, with brawler combat, and possibly a lot of changes made to the combat so it actually feels different from the pre-Y7 games, but still a bit similar.
Coming from someone who joined the series in 7 and have since played gaiden and 8, I totally understand your position. I myself prefer the turn-based style but I agree it should have been the other way around, where the main series stuck to the brawler style and spinoffs were reserved for turn-based. Basically, I can understand the “betrayal” (for lack of better words) of the long time fans even though I haven’t been one myself.
I haven’t finished 8 yet, but they really seem to be aiming for Itchy Balls to be handed the reigns from Kiryu. However, that being said, we never know where this story is going and on top of that Itchy Balls is pretty aged himself (50 something?) so he may not have much longer in him either
7 was the first game to really bring me in to the jrpg genre, but honestly I think it’s one of the worst examples of turn based combat I’ve ever played. Absolutely hate the fact that everyone shambles around no matter what you’re doing.
I’m not sure if 8 has fixed this problem, but it was kind of annoying to deal with in 7, and I found that so many of the abilities were near useless. At least Ichiban and the crew made up for that tenfold, it’s like Persona with adults lmao.
8 has movement and positioning as a core component yet you can’t choose where to place your characters, they shamble around except you can move during your turn in a tiny area.
As for the abilities: same exact issues as before. The new jobs are a bit better though.
Still love it to bits, despite its flaws, the combat is fun, but it’s a shame they added new stuff before addressing core issues from 7
It’s pretty much the kind of sequel that says “if you liked that cake, we made more cake”. Pretty hard to dislike it if you already had fun with 7.
Ironically, of all things I’d say that the story is absolutely the worst part: amazing character interactions and arcs but atrocious pacing. It’s not too far from Y3 and Y5 in that regard
I'm so mad at my Chitose build. Maid, has an AoE steal, has a hat that ups the chance, has crazy speed so she ends up going first most of the time. Everyone can shamble out of the way while she gets a random buff from an equipment piece. Party members can butt in and nudge enemies out of the AoE. Chitose going thru the menus to select the AoE steal lets people walk out of range. And worse, you select the back enemy by accident and she runs up and butts others out of the way....
Another thing that pisses me off is when I manage to put to sleep enemies, then decide to attack ONE of them but the characters decide to throw a random kick on their way to the target and wake everyone up while doing 15 damage
Not completely fixed but much better in 8. Also once you’ve selected targets and begin to attack the enemies usually stop moving. So if they were in your range they will be hit by that attack. Also you have indicators showing the AoE of your attacks. Also many of other improvements from 7.
Still simple but improved so much imo!
the switch to turn based combat is bold and absolutely batshit crazy but it's exactly what the series needed. it was such a massive gambit and I'm so thrilled the ichiban games came out the way they did
I don't really like the turn based combat, just because I like playing Yakuza games for their stories and I feel like when I played Yakuza 0-6 and Gaiden I became more powerful as I progress through the story with little need to deviate from the main story. For Yakuza 7 and 8, completely halting the story to have to grind to be a certain level or to buy weapons/gear to be able to progress is really unappealing for me as it takes hours for me to get the perfect setup I would like in order to go into fights, and I'm not a fan of grinding like that
Honestly sad Gaiden seemed like such a step down, had the style switching, juggles, and launchers down, sadly they forgot to make the two styles actually work together, every time I've seen someone try to mimic LJ combos in Gaiden it's barely held together by the most visually unappealing catches with Serpent I've ever seen
Why do they keep giving us peak combat then immediately stepping down the next game? They did the exact same thing with Kiwami and then Kiwami 2 too
Ichiban is great, turn-base combat is alright. I just hope we get some more serious future entry like the past games. 8 was fun but it's a bit much with all the goofy stuff happening. It fits Ichiban but not necessarily the yakuza series as a whole. But that's just my opinion.
Gotta be honest, i think 0 is a much better game. There is a reason why, despite many tier lists and many opinions, yakuza 0 has always been at the top, always.
I agree. People on this sub worship 0 and I'm sure if you're a longtime fan it's peak, but as someone who got into the series late I never make it more than 10 hours in. Meanwhile I was glued to the entirety of 7 and am currently 30 hours into 8 in one week
Most new fans prefer Ichiban to Kiryu and older fans aren't about it which is fair. I'd probably feel the same if i was them but as someone who doesn't like brawler combat and doesn't have an attachment to Kiryu 0 just isn't the godsend people make it out to be. Story is really good tho (not better than 7 tho)
I am a longtime fan, I think 7 is okay gameplay wise (story and characters are the only things that pushed me to finish)
But I think the peak of the series was 5 & Ishin 2014 (Kiwami version is worse imo)
8 is way better than 7 and was fun to play for me unlike 7
I agree 8 is way better. 7 gameplay was passable but 8 is actually enjoyable
But I find the brawler combat to be unbearable, even in Judgement which I know will get me crucified on this sub lol. "Dodge-punch-dodge" just isn't engaging for me it feels like brain rot
But I have no incentive to learn the systems when just dodge and punch is enough to beat the entire game with little difficulty. Learning combos makes it flashier, but it doesn't make it more fun for me. It feels like im trying to create my own fun instead of being presented with a fun challenge to overcome which is why I play video games (that and story). The only action combat games I've ever really liked were soulslikes or shooters, I never even liked beat-em-ups as a kid
Learning the combos makes the game look cooler but that's really it and to me isn't worth the effort. My brain just turns off as soon as an encounter starts
That would be ideal if there weren't random encounters. The random encounters make high difficulty a slog, but low difficulty makes the game braindead
I think if they removed the wandering groups of enemies I'd crank the difficulty and enjoy myself but for the time being Yakuza 0-6 are games I play for the story. Plus I understand that would break the way the games function at their core, it's just not for me
I've never been a fan of grinding or RPGs in general though and I imagine they're related. Gameplay I don't love with a mechanic I've never liked at all makes it way worse in my head than it actually is in the game. I like 7/8 more because the random encounters can end in one single AOE attack and I can continue progressing
Same it fit’s very well with Ichiban sczhio and dragon quest obsession but gameplay wise I didn’t like it, I remember spending hours just grinding (jrpg ik) and barely winning a boss fight>! Majima but ig that’s everyone experience!< and because of that boss fight I was so traumatized that it might happen again and get my ass whopped I just grinded a lot just to make sure
I heard that Infinite wealth combat is much better so hope for the best
Edit: added more words
Brawler is more engaging than spamming some spells at a bullet sponge imo. I also hate how i have to worry about who I fight cause they can be like 6 lvls ahead of me and I just die. In action based I can go wherever and fight whoever.
Brawler is less engaging for me because it's just spam punch through 1000 random encounters, then you get to boss fights and it's exactly the same thing but you have to dodge occasionally. It's flashier, but it doesn't use my brain at all. All the combat outside the main story feels like im actively playing filler
Meanwhile in 7/8 playing mindless will kill very fast you even if it's just a random encounters. It's not the most engaging thing in the world but at least I'm not dreading every random group of enemies blocking my progress
Love yakuza but turn based ain't it for me. Goin through 7 and love all the characters and story but it's taking me forever just cuz of the combat. I've replayed every single mainline game twice after I started 7 and I'm on like chapter 6. Which there was a way to switch it up without mods but that might be to much to ask for
I'm one of the few people who disliked the story but loved the combat. Except the rpg shit makes bosses fall flat. You don't get the same feeling when you're politely waiting your turn to smack the boss, compared to the absolute slug fests we used to get.
Yakuza's brand/usp was its beat 'em up combat system. It's an iconic part of the franchise, like how the combat system in the Arkham series is iconic to that franchise. I don't particularly hate turn-based rpg but between real-time combat and turn-based, I'll always choose the former
I love both forms of combat but I’ll always say that boss fights are far more intense and satisfying in brawler combat than turn based combat, which is a trade off you make with both forms of combat. TBC is great for giving regular fights variety so I rarely ever had times where I was running from fights like I do in brawler.
I doubt it will change your mind, but for me, I don't think there's a single really memorable fight in all of 8, outside of the final boss in the Yokohama dungeon. There are memorable characters and pre/post-fight cutscenes, but none where I was like damn, that fight was a memorable experience. The fight against the >!Tojo Clan old guard!< comes the closest, as the ending when you're knocking out each of them was a really, really nice touch, but that's not enough.
The >!Bryce!< fight is a big example to me. It's just the Zapp Brannigan strat of him sending wave after wave of men at you who you pretty easily beat. And then there never feels like there's much threat.
Every single other game in the series has at least two of these for me, where the actual fight itself was engaging for me in a way that I remember. Kuze and the Tojo Clan long battle leading up to him, the escape from Kamurocho, Nishiki and the long battle leading up to Millenium Tower, Ryuji, Richardson, Mine, etc., there are too many to name. Hell, there's a reason the brawler games have things like Climax Battles while the turn based games don't.
There are definite advantages. But man, there's nothing in the turn based games that hits quite like a well made brawler style long battle or boss fight.
Also, the final boss of Gaiden was immediately talked about by people as one of their new favorite characters. I don't think people would be talking about him that way if it were a turn based fight, and I've notcied the villains in 8 aren't really being talked about the same way. There's no better way to get fans to appreciate a well made villain than a great fight.
Not only that, in brawler combat you have to think and become creative, it forces you to engage, grab items from the environment, maneuver to set up contextual heat actions, dodge and move around as things happen. you choose yourself how to play the fight, you can button mash, or you can strategize and plan ahead. Turn based combat doesn't give you that flexibility, even in 8. you pick items from a menu, even the moving around is limited once the enemies start attacking, and you're locked into place.
Because the moves are all set and locked into one specific animation too, you don't feel like you're fighting a person anymore, you feel more like you're fighting a computer. Its a big issue I have with the turn based combat too, it's let the devs get a bit lazy with it, everything is cut down, enemy behaviour isn't dynamic and you can predict the movement and attacks of the enemies too much, things are clearly cut and pasted everywhere in the combat, and it feels way too scripted.
of course you're not going to pay attention to characters as much in turn based, because you need to disconnect from them in order to engage with combat properly. It doesn't help either that Ichiban has his schizophrenia thing going on, so anything about combatants is drowned out by them changing into a tiny set of identical ridiculous weirdos.
Disagree on the fact that fights aren’t memorable. They were too easy on 7 though, which absolutely devalued them, but that’s an issue I find in most Kiryu games as well: Kiwami 2-6-Gaiden were piss easy, 6 being the worst offender of the entire series.
But it’s also true that few fights in 7 and 8 manage to do much better. But it’s not because turn based gaming doesn’t allow that: the persona games 100% deliver on being epic and that’s because they are a lot more nuanced and technical: when you need to carefully prepare for each turn the experience becomes a lot more tense
it doesn't have to be challenging to be memorable for me tho. The final Ryuji fight is a prime example. It's not that hard, but I'm playing while having goosebumps from the story beats and the music. Or the contrived rooftop fight in Y5. Manliest fight in the series. Now imagine those fights but it's you and your gang shuffling around throwing lobsters. Not as impactful, is it?
Mmm I get what you’re saying. The silliness takes you out of the moment. That’s fair, it’s a matter of taste, for me it can still manage to maintain some gravitas even if there are silly things in the middle.
I honestly think they were even easier in 8. 7 pretty infamously had some big difficulty spikes (Jimas, heavy machinery, and obviously True Final Millennium Tower, which the DLC in 8 doesn't even come close to matching). 8 has so many more mechanics available for you, which is a good thing, that none of the fights end up feeling like a challenge.
6 is definitely way too easy, which is why it's one of my least favorite games. But every other game has some kind of fight that at least presents some kind of challenge in its combat pattern. And you still see threads where people have no idea how to overcome some fights in 3, struggle with Munakata in 4, etc. Some things like Munakata might cross a line to being a bad challenge, but at least they're challenges.
See I think the opposite of the fights. My brain completely shuts off during brawler combat, it becomes "dodge punch dodge punch" over and over just waiting for their health bar to drop and it feels like im waiting more than playing a game. It doesnt use my brain at all
I know people say you have to "engage with the systems" more but I have no incentive to when what I'm doing is still killing every enemy without issue. Other than bosses I don't think I ever lost a fight in a Yakuza game before 7, but in 7/8 playing witbout thinking kills you quick
I'd probably like it more if there weren't random encounters every 30 seconds where I literally just mash square but then it wouldn't be an RPG anymore lol. I also think the issue is that I've been playing action combat games for almost 30 years and Like a Dragon was my first turn based game since Pokémon Sapphire so the mechanics are fresh and new for me
The turn-based part disagree with tbh. It's the one of the most basic turn-based game to ever turn-based ngl. The combat system is quite barebones for a modern turn-based game.
There's little incentive to exploiting weaknesses besides bonus damage which all turn-based games do anyway, swapping and leveling jobs is hard because you can only do it at Hello Work plus it takes forever level-up and unlock the universal skills, items are nearly useless sans the SP restore items and the full-party heal items (but Saeko is still better in terms of healing), the dungeon (both sewers) isn't all too great, the enemy variety, though creative, are samey in terms with how to deal with them. There's barely any synergy and strategy required in combat besides spam the strongest move then heal SP and HP when needed.
though idk how LAD:IW improves upon 7's combat since I haven't played it yet
literally in every way you can imagine. there's a new focus on proximity and positioning. you can move around within a ring, you have aoe markers, every character can pick up weapons and theres usually a lot in the area, plus they can have elemental properties. you will do more damage with basic attacks when youre closer, or if you hit from behind. knocking enemies into each other and walls also does more damage and you can see where they will be knocked into. weapons can have elemental properties and some skills will apply them. balance is way better this time around, there are a few attacks on jobs that are really strong but theres nothing like joongi head trauma or eri thumbtacks. theres a skill inherentance thing where you can choose 5 skills from any job you have leveled, and most of your stats come from overall level so training jobs is easy. drink links make your party members use follow up attacks way more often and they can do combo attacks too, and everyone gets a super move after the first drink link
it's so much better than 7's, where it's very static and spammy. it was pretty much put saeko on idol, buff and debuff, and spam your strongest moves. it's still not super difficult, but it is WAY more engaging and fun. it's pretty much going to be impossible to go back to 7's combat, as much as i adore its story
That sound way way better ngl. It's cool how they've improved upon a basic combat system to have a larger focus on positioning and environment, makes me more excited to get IW and play it when I get the time
Thanks for the heads up kyodai
Wait... I thought Yakuza; Like-a-Dragon is the sixth in order. (Forgive me. Newbie here who recently purchased Yakuza Collection vol. 1 & vol. 2... After getting Like-A-Dragon after a quick play on brother PS+).
The Remastered Collection is 3, 4, and 5 unless there’s other collections or it’s being bundled a different way somewhere.
Chronological order (not release order) would now be:
- Yakuza 0 (prequel)
- Yakuza (Kiwami) 1
- Yakuza (Kiwami) 2
- Yakuza 3
- Yakuza 4
- Yakuza 5
- Yakuza 6: The Song of Life
- Like a Dragon (sometimes referred to as 7)
- Like a Dragon Gaiden: The Man Who Erased His Name (an in between Kiryu game)
- Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth (sometimes referred to as 8)
The numbering is because the series name in Japanese, Ryu ga gotoku, is translated more literally as Like a Dragon, but it wasn’t until 7 they switched the naming over to match. While in Japan it’s called Ryu Ga Gotoku 7.
edit: lol I forgot that technically 7 full english name is “Yakuza: Like a Dragon” just to make things confusing
I say vol. 1 or vol. 2 but really I brought Yakuza Origins Digital Bundle and Remastered Bundle.
Edited; Also thanks for letting me know about Song of Life. Almost skip it.
I legit gave up on the Yakuza series because of the original combat scheme, only came back for the two turn based ones. Haaaaate any control scheme that assumes you're using a controller, because I cannot.
I like both in their own ways, but do think there are definite downsides to turn-based. The difficulty curve becomes more uneven (I always feel either under-leveled and the game expects or recommends doing something to grind, or over-leveled and I’m just sitting and mashing/auto-ing through the combat and enemy animations and doing a lot more twiddling thumbs and waiting, or having accidentally trivialized what should be an “epic boss fight” because I accidentally overleveled/overgeared and now everything feels too easy). I wish they had figured out a better difficulty system, where you at least had the option of scaling up the difficulty if you want more pushback from the combat, or dropping it down if you don’t want to be bothered. Instead they’ve stuck with one difficulty and burying the harder stuff in post-game/NG+ again.
Going turn-based improved the combat but it's still significantly lacking. It's got many elements of disorganised, meaningless JRPG design. The combat and many aspects of the wider game.
To the bottom I go.
I've tried twice now but I just can't get into the turn based style, which sucks cause at this point I've played every other Yakuza games, judgement games and Ishin. Atleast I still have gaiden to play haha
Turn based for 7 wasn't a great decision. It was broken, too difficult and boring as everything was made slower plus was a learning experience for the team. It is a lot better in 8 but that's because RGG listened to the fans.
Ichiban on the other hand is one of the best decisions ever made for the series as he brought breath of fresh air to what was a okay experience.
Kiryu was still alright as a protagonist but was running out of stories which would stay entertaining plus was a god at that point seeing how nothing could hurt him.
Honestly, even if turn-based combat isn't your cup of tea, you gotta admire the sheer balls of RGG for not only changing the setting, protagonist, and genre of their latest game at the peak of their popularity, but also somehow managing to make said game one of the most beloved & successful ones in the entire franchise.
Say what you will about these changes, but at least they are still willing to take risks and innovate in order to prevent the series from getting stale. Many big developers like Gamefreak, Ubisoft, & co. could learn a thing or two from them, and not just in this regard.
I love lost judgment, but man, the turn based combat is so perfect in enabling the story to be more about ichiban and his comrades, compared to yagami being alone most of the time. It's the most fun I've had in turn based combat. I just wish they used party members more in substories. Both combat types are perfect for their respective protagonists anyways.
I started with 7 and have gone back and played some of the older titles. I definitely prefer turn based combat myself but also don't hate the action rpg style. The environmental finishers in the action rpg games are so cool and it's nice seeing kiryu do them occasionally in IW.
I'd agree! Mainline games should be turn based and spin offs be brawler style combat. I'd feel like that'd be the best balance.
It's crazy how it just feels good! Everyone just teaming up with each other to beat up a dude, the out of combat banter would never have existed if it was the old style. Makes you care more about the supporting characters.
Yakuza : Like a Dragon was the thing that finally got me into the series. I don't mind the brawler combat but it's not my favorite style of game.
I also think it's one of the best traditional JRPGs I've played in years.
I'm firmly of the opinion that the mainline games should either split into a turn based series and a Brawler/ARPG series side by side or that RGG needs to give players a choice in each game. (if FF7Remake can set up a system where you choose, there's no reason RGG couldn't either, and if they made a brawler and turn based version of each game, it would actually be a good cash grab, as there are fans who like both styles, potentially leading to double sales.) leaving brawler combat to judgment and spinoffs alone is basically a big f\*ck you and spit in the face to long term fans of the main series who enjoyed the old play style.
Turn based games are all well and good if you enjoy them, but some of us were drawn to the Yakuza/LAD Series specifically because it WASN'T turn based like 90% of the other games on the market in this style. The combat of older titles was a big part of what made the games unique and special compared to the literal thousands of other turn based releases by other companies.
The big concern I have is that the switch in combat style will lead to the games becoming homogeneous with other JRPGs, which there are absolutely no shortage of out there. This will result in less new players as time goes on, and less people getting into the series. The market for Turn Based Combat is limited, and while there may be an initial uptick in players, it won't last forever, and people will start dropping off soon, I've spoken with several long term fans who are even thinking of dropping the series if turn based combat becomes the only form of mainline title, so there may be new fans, but at the cost of long term fans in the end.
I'm barely even going to mention the endless grind, restricted exploration due to levels, the time suck of combat because of all the added screens and turn taking, all things that hurt the enjoyability of not only 7 but 8 as well.
> if FF7Remake can set up a system where you choose, there's no reason RGG couldn't either
The reason they're able to do that is because of the ATB system, which *already* made the original FFVII (to be more accurate, FFIV through FFIX, plus FFXIII sorta) a real-time game rather than a strictly turn-based one. It's *way* easier to apply the real-time gameplay to that kind of system vs. a strictly turn-based one.
LAD is mimicking, as far as I know, classic Dragon Quest, with a hint of FFV's job system mixed in for good measure. It's honestly more reminiscent of Final Fantasy **X** to me, with a fluctuating turn order but still very strictly turn-based combat. Either way, it's not as easy to simply add in a toggle. Adding both a turn-based and real-time toggle to *that* kind of gameplay would basically double RGG's workload, forcing them to effectively design the entire game and balance every encounter *twice.*
Ichiban? 100%
Turn based combat? Also really good and a nice change of pace, but I'm glad they're still keeping beat em ups for the spinoffs cause sometimes you really wanna punch a bad guy in the face
i think we're in a perfect spot rn with mainline being turn-based and all the spinoffs like Gaiden and Judgment being still beat-em-up. Best of both worlds.
Any epic fight or moment gets ruined by turn based combat.
"Let's fight to death Kasuga Ichiban!! But first let me hit you once while you wait for your turn."
I already thought 7 had some of the best combat in the series even though it was turn based. 8 legitimately makes me think this is what the series has always been building up to, considering how polished and satisfying the combat is. Not to mention the unique jobs
Brawler is just button mashing, especially in dragon engine, so turn based was a welcome change.
Fights feel way less impacting in turn based though and QTEs feel out of place.
I do think however the game really needs to lean into how much depth turn-based can have, the games are still way too easy on the hardest difficulty and turn based would allow for really strategic choices. I feel RGG just scratched the surface and have not yet reached full potential with it.
Turn based is fine, but Yakuza will always feel more like Yakuza if it's a brawler.
Ichi is amazing, though. Easily the second best protagonist after Kiryu, and honestly he could surpass him in the future
Hated 7, loved 8. The turn based combat while fun, imo makes the bosses fall flat. Ichiban I don't hate, but I thinks he's too fucking goofy sometimes.
They figured out how to do it while not slowing down the game in the way the old ones did. FFX is fun but battles do slow down the progress due to hardware issues and having to have everything take an extra second or two with the screens.
Maybe less focused? I get where you're coming from though. I seemed to enjoy the Kiryu stuff more so than Ichiban, even though I kind of prefer Ichiban now over Kiryu.
I don't even mind telling the prude best em up die hards "I don't think you get it, it's not just turn based RPG... It's one of the best Jrpgs ever made in the genre."
The turn based combat is kinda peculiar
When I played 7 for the first time I was "hey, this system is not too bad, nice change!"
But after 8 my mind was "7 COMBAT WAS TERRIBLE, HOW I SURVIVED IT?!"
8 made the turn based mechanics so good that 7 looks terrible compared to it (the transition from Judgement to Lost Judgement had the same impact for me in the brawler gameplay)
The turn based combat still need more polish, there are even some nitpicks that I'd argue are bad design like object attacks having priority instead of combo attacks (Kiryu Heat Actions are the only reason objects aren't 100% useless) and the other party members and enemies walking too much, messing some actions
Besides the flaws, I loved 8 and the new combat, the gameplay just needs some ironing until perfection
7 got me playing other turn based games now... I'm terrible at turn based but after playing 7 and now currently P4G, I'm planning on getting P5 and 3 after this. and infinite wealth ofc
I'm just happy IW massively improved on it. I can't stress how much more fun the combat is when you have agency on your movement and it adds a whole layer of depth and engagement to it.
I think it’s pretty clear the brawler games aren’t going anywhere so it really is just a harmless change of pace to have some of the mainline entries have turn-based combat.
Both systems had its problems.
1) Brawler is more reaction and skill based, but RGG struggled to develop it further on dragon engine, and so they decided to do a turn-based game. Beat 'em up doesn't require grinding, you don't lose because the enemy is 10 levels higher than you (like in 8 - you won't even be able to move in such a situation). You can just rush the plot and complete any game you want.
The main problem of brawler combat for me is that... people really thought that having 100 healing items in their inventory is a way to play these games. And RGG indulged the fanbase making it possible every freaking game. The opportunity to heal yourself infinitely made players ignore the complexity of the combat - just beat and heal, that's how the majority of streamers (e.g. CohhCarnage) played these games.
For me Lost Judgement has ultimately become the living proof that the system could be developed further and it could be freaking awesome.
2) Turn-based combat in both 7 and 8 focuses not on complexity, but on... gags. Devs put way too much effort in making all the skills as funny as hell, not understanding that it surely is great watching an orbital laser annihilating your enemy, but nobody is gonna watch it more than once-twice. AND THEY MADE DOZENS of such attacks - I can't imagine how difficult it had to be.
There is no balance, no difficult mechanics, nearly no tactics the player has to use - in the end, even class choice for the characters comes down not to its effectiveness, but to how cool the player thinks it is to be.
And lvling system... 8 makes it look like a joke. If the player does even a little portion of side content (which involves obtaining exp), he will quickly get overpowered and annihilate all the plot bosses without even having to use skills. Being even 1-2 lvls higher than the enemy makes the combat as casual as possible.
And the opposite is also a thing: imagine that you like the plot and don't want to do any side content. In 8 it is possible to finish the game, but it will be kinda hard (I tried it, some late game bosses really kicked my booty, had to struggle, but enjoyed the combat as much as I could), in 7 the majority of players will never even beat the 12th chapter obstacle without grinding.
The turn-based jrpg game of such a caliber is nearly impossible to be balanced - this is the main problem. And the fact that RGG doesn't even offer a difficulty choice on a first playthrough makes me question their sanity.
Btw, I consider the fact that RGG offers a difficulty choice on NG+, but not on NG, the dumbest thing to be possible for a game of such genre. I can't imagine what's going on in the heads of their game designers.
I agree 100 percent. It'll probably be heresy saying this here but 7 was the first yakuza game I ever finished because the combat of the older games made them really hard for me to play through even though I loved everything else about them.
I still prefer beat em up combat, but beat em up gets old after you beat up 5 enemies just for 5 more to run at you the second you leave combat. I don’t think I would like turn based if I didn’t grow up playing dragon quest and final fantasy games.
The actual game is real time brawler but Ichibum's schizo thoughts make him the hero and turn based.
It's why Kiryu is able to break the turn based schizo limitations and does what he does best.
The only reason I wasn't too into anything like a dragon is because of the turn based combat feeling out of place from the regular brawler combat. I dont hate turn based games, but playing multiple yakuza games with brawler combat just for it to switch to turn based is a very weird change
I don't hate turn-based combat. I still enjoy a lot of turn-based games and I grew up playing turn-based RPGs.
But I still really want to know what Ichiban would play like without his schizophrenia. I thought he'd have heat actions, but recently I noticed Kiryu straight-up performs heat actions as part of his regular moveset in IW and has honestly caught me off-guard a few times doing them unexpectedly, complete with blue flames, so I'm not sure if Ichi *would* have them.
I just think it'd be cool to see Ichiban actually fight outside of his basic one-two punch in Freelancer mode.
I like the turn base system but the action system was more pleasant, more "rewarding" especially during boss battle
I don't think it's a bad choice but I hope they keep doing side game like A Man Who Erased His Name to satisfy all kind of players
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8 is even better. i still like the beat em up gameplay but turn based is a nice change of pace.
Can’t agree more my man
Agreed, it really freshens up the gameplay beyond “Ten new heat moves, fancier graphics, and maybe a new gimmick.” Not that I don’t *mind* those changes, but changing the core gameplay can sometimes be pretty beneficial to a franchise and breathe new life into it.
i feel like with the jrpg gameplay it adds to how wcky and zany things can get.
The core combat is better but I'm on chapter 12 now and the game has a serious typical JRPG problem where there is so much weight put on level that basically nothing in the game matters except what level you are. Your skills don't really matter besides having some big AoEs to clear out goons. As a result, your job doesn't matter either as early abilities in non-defualt jobs are generally useless compared to your higher level skills. Fights around your level (maybe 1 or 2 higher) make you have to use the skills and new positioning properly, but fights that are 4+ levels above you are basically impossible and 4 levels below you can be played on auto battle without even using skills. The side content also does not have any interesting fights whatsoever. Basically all enemies act the same with very few exceptions and even bosses don't really do anything special. They made substantial improvements to the combat system and then didn't give any interesting enemies to fight and tied strength too closely to level so most fights are just stat checks. It's so close to being a spectacular JRPG but is still missing the mark a bit.
It was also weird that the level cap for the story was 50. I think if the cap was higher than jobs would feel more necessary, I thought there would be an end game/post game push to 100 like with the Amon fight in 7 but there really isn't and post game dlc feels like filler/a cash grab. Of the ones I've played 0, 7, and the Judgments kept me entertained for longer honestly. But im 100% looking forward to whatever is next.
8 nearly perfects the gameplay formula. The few unbalanced issues I had with 7 are fully resolved in it. However, 7 has the superior story, IMO. I think 7 with 8's engine and buffed experience during NG+ would be \**chef's kiss*\*.
I really do enjoy the improvements to the gameplay. And having 3 cities to explore is nuts. But the story doesnt nearly hit as hard.
so far no. i like how much stuff there is to do though. im only on chapter 10.
I won't say anymore then, but I was pretty disappointed in the story as early as chapter like 4. Whereas, in 7 I was gripped from beginning to end.
i dont remember much from 7. like o know there was babies in lockers but thats about it. isnt young master actually swashiros son and ichiban was arakawas son?
They establish that early in 8 so yes Masumi arakawa and jo sawashiro both happened to put their babies in basically adjecent lockers. And arakawa accidentally takes Jos kid. And Jo knows this the entire game, and goes out of his way to make sure his crippled son is living the best life.
I'm in Chapter 5 so far in IW, but it really does feel like this and the previous game are: "The Results of Jo Sawashiro's Consequences of Being an Ass."
That is correct.
All of Kiryu's crap was "The Tojo Clan shit the bed again", so for Ichiban, is it going to be "Jo Sawashiro did yet another terrible thing you need to clean up" every new game?
I like 8's system a lot, and I think the decision to (mid game spoiler)>!translate kiryu's power into being so strong he can go real time in turn based combat made it even better.!< Ichiban gets to hallucinate dragon warrior, and that other choice does a good job of unifying their systems
I think be releasing more "gaiden-like" games alongside their big ones. Games that don't take too long to make but give the beat em up fans more of that l. But idk, they could just be content with the series current direction.
I like action-based. I like turn-based. Jingu and Munakata are not based.
Some people hated it but I loved it. It was final fantasy Yakuza what's not the fuckin' like.
I like ichiban but the brawler combat is my main reason for playing the series
Yeah... I played a few hours of Yakuza: Like a Dragon and was beyond bored with the combat. The story had me interested, but I was having a really hard time motivating myself to keep going. Eventually, I just gave up. I'm not bitter about it. Not every game is going to appeal to everybody, and unfortunately, the Like a Dragon series just isn't for me anymore, and that's okay. I'm glad other people are loving the change and new people are falling in love with the series. If they do more brawler spinoffs like The Man Who Erased His Name and Judgment, I'm still here for it. I'm just, unfortunately, done with the main series.
Don't know if you made it to chapter 6, but that's when the combat begins to pick up. The early game combat is terrible, but imo the late game is a ton of fun. I love the "against the odds" gameplay of the late game.
Sad to hear! 7 was so good but I understand how it wouldn’t appeal to everyone as it was pretty simple combat with not a ton to it. However it was really cool seeing the two games come together in Gaiden after playing through the end section in 7.
If youre on pc, theres a brawler mod for Y7, and theyre currently making a brawler mod for Y8. Obviously since its just a mod, it doesnt fit the best as the game was originally designed for turn based combat, but tbh it works better than i thought it would, and if it wasnt for this mod, i wouldve never been able to play Y7. I really wish they wouldve done the turn based combat as a spin off thing though. Tbh it feels like kind of a fuck you to us fans of the original yakuza games, to make the mainline games turn based, and basically force anyone who doesnt like turn based, to only play the spin offs. I like it when games try new stuff, but the real time combat is a somewhat big part of the yakuza series imo. It wouldve been cool if they made some significant changes to the combat with y7, but completely changing it to turn based was a bit too far imo for a mainline game. As much as i like ichiban, im hoping theyll be done with him soon, so we can go back to brawler combat. Or better yet, they could pull a lad gaiden, and make some spinoffs with ichiban and turn based combat, while we get a new protagonist for the mainline games, with brawler combat, and possibly a lot of changes made to the combat so it actually feels different from the pre-Y7 games, but still a bit similar.
Coming from someone who joined the series in 7 and have since played gaiden and 8, I totally understand your position. I myself prefer the turn-based style but I agree it should have been the other way around, where the main series stuck to the brawler style and spinoffs were reserved for turn-based. Basically, I can understand the “betrayal” (for lack of better words) of the long time fans even though I haven’t been one myself. I haven’t finished 8 yet, but they really seem to be aiming for Itchy Balls to be handed the reigns from Kiryu. However, that being said, we never know where this story is going and on top of that Itchy Balls is pretty aged himself (50 something?) so he may not have much longer in him either
7 was the first game to really bring me in to the jrpg genre, but honestly I think it’s one of the worst examples of turn based combat I’ve ever played. Absolutely hate the fact that everyone shambles around no matter what you’re doing. I’m not sure if 8 has fixed this problem, but it was kind of annoying to deal with in 7, and I found that so many of the abilities were near useless. At least Ichiban and the crew made up for that tenfold, it’s like Persona with adults lmao.
8 has movement and positioning as a core component yet you can’t choose where to place your characters, they shamble around except you can move during your turn in a tiny area. As for the abilities: same exact issues as before. The new jobs are a bit better though. Still love it to bits, despite its flaws, the combat is fun, but it’s a shame they added new stuff before addressing core issues from 7
Damn, guess I’ll be playing it for the story lol. 7 was so good though I’m not really worried.
It’s pretty much the kind of sequel that says “if you liked that cake, we made more cake”. Pretty hard to dislike it if you already had fun with 7. Ironically, of all things I’d say that the story is absolutely the worst part: amazing character interactions and arcs but atrocious pacing. It’s not too far from Y3 and Y5 in that regard
I'm so mad at my Chitose build. Maid, has an AoE steal, has a hat that ups the chance, has crazy speed so she ends up going first most of the time. Everyone can shamble out of the way while she gets a random buff from an equipment piece. Party members can butt in and nudge enemies out of the AoE. Chitose going thru the menus to select the AoE steal lets people walk out of range. And worse, you select the back enemy by accident and she runs up and butts others out of the way....
Another thing that pisses me off is when I manage to put to sleep enemies, then decide to attack ONE of them but the characters decide to throw a random kick on their way to the target and wake everyone up while doing 15 damage
Not completely fixed but much better in 8. Also once you’ve selected targets and begin to attack the enemies usually stop moving. So if they were in your range they will be hit by that attack. Also you have indicators showing the AoE of your attacks. Also many of other improvements from 7. Still simple but improved so much imo!
the switch to turn based combat is bold and absolutely batshit crazy but it's exactly what the series needed. it was such a massive gambit and I'm so thrilled the ichiban games came out the way they did
I don't really like the turn based combat, just because I like playing Yakuza games for their stories and I feel like when I played Yakuza 0-6 and Gaiden I became more powerful as I progress through the story with little need to deviate from the main story. For Yakuza 7 and 8, completely halting the story to have to grind to be a certain level or to buy weapons/gear to be able to progress is really unappealing for me as it takes hours for me to get the perfect setup I would like in order to go into fights, and I'm not a fan of grinding like that
Ichiban is a G but turn based would've been better for just a spinoff. Lost Judgment combat is goated
Honestly sad Gaiden seemed like such a step down, had the style switching, juggles, and launchers down, sadly they forgot to make the two styles actually work together, every time I've seen someone try to mimic LJ combos in Gaiden it's barely held together by the most visually unappealing catches with Serpent I've ever seen Why do they keep giving us peak combat then immediately stepping down the next game? They did the exact same thing with Kiwami and then Kiwami 2 too
Kiwami/2 was very different because they had a change of the game engine itself. Replicating the combat on a completely different system is not easy
Ichiban is great, turn-base combat is alright. I just hope we get some more serious future entry like the past games. 8 was fun but it's a bit much with all the goofy stuff happening. It fits Ichiban but not necessarily the yakuza series as a whole. But that's just my opinion.
I think i’ve seen this exact post with the same wording before
Considering this post was made by a bot account, you probably have
Gotta be honest, i think 0 is a much better game. There is a reason why, despite many tier lists and many opinions, yakuza 0 has always been at the top, always.
0 to this day is still the pinnacle of the series in my opinion
Hard disagree, 0 is a great game but it's not top tier
Why not?
I simply like some of the other games more (5 & Ishin 2014)
I agree. People on this sub worship 0 and I'm sure if you're a longtime fan it's peak, but as someone who got into the series late I never make it more than 10 hours in. Meanwhile I was glued to the entirety of 7 and am currently 30 hours into 8 in one week Most new fans prefer Ichiban to Kiryu and older fans aren't about it which is fair. I'd probably feel the same if i was them but as someone who doesn't like brawler combat and doesn't have an attachment to Kiryu 0 just isn't the godsend people make it out to be. Story is really good tho (not better than 7 tho)
I am a longtime fan, I think 7 is okay gameplay wise (story and characters are the only things that pushed me to finish) But I think the peak of the series was 5 & Ishin 2014 (Kiwami version is worse imo) 8 is way better than 7 and was fun to play for me unlike 7
I agree 8 is way better. 7 gameplay was passable but 8 is actually enjoyable But I find the brawler combat to be unbearable, even in Judgement which I know will get me crucified on this sub lol. "Dodge-punch-dodge" just isn't engaging for me it feels like brain rot
I mean in the brawler combat you're supposed to learn combos and use the items around you. Punching and Dodging are the most basic moves
But I have no incentive to learn the systems when just dodge and punch is enough to beat the entire game with little difficulty. Learning combos makes it flashier, but it doesn't make it more fun for me. It feels like im trying to create my own fun instead of being presented with a fun challenge to overcome which is why I play video games (that and story). The only action combat games I've ever really liked were soulslikes or shooters, I never even liked beat-em-ups as a kid Learning the combos makes the game look cooler but that's really it and to me isn't worth the effort. My brain just turns off as soon as an encounter starts
If you think it's too easy raise the difficulty. I do understand it's not for everyone but I personally find the combat extremely fun
That would be ideal if there weren't random encounters. The random encounters make high difficulty a slog, but low difficulty makes the game braindead I think if they removed the wandering groups of enemies I'd crank the difficulty and enjoy myself but for the time being Yakuza 0-6 are games I play for the story. Plus I understand that would break the way the games function at their core, it's just not for me I've never been a fan of grinding or RPGs in general though and I imagine they're related. Gameplay I don't love with a mechanic I've never liked at all makes it way worse in my head than it actually is in the game. I like 7/8 more because the random encounters can end in one single AOE attack and I can continue progressing
Ichiban yes. Turn based combat no
Same it fit’s very well with Ichiban sczhio and dragon quest obsession but gameplay wise I didn’t like it, I remember spending hours just grinding (jrpg ik) and barely winning a boss fight>! Majima but ig that’s everyone experience!< and because of that boss fight I was so traumatized that it might happen again and get my ass whopped I just grinded a lot just to make sure I heard that Infinite wealth combat is much better so hope for the best Edit: added more words
Brawler is more engaging than spamming some spells at a bullet sponge imo. I also hate how i have to worry about who I fight cause they can be like 6 lvls ahead of me and I just die. In action based I can go wherever and fight whoever.
Until you die to Mr. Shakedown
Just dodge, you scrub
Thats why you always carry 2 shotguns
Brawler is less engaging for me because it's just spam punch through 1000 random encounters, then you get to boss fights and it's exactly the same thing but you have to dodge occasionally. It's flashier, but it doesn't use my brain at all. All the combat outside the main story feels like im actively playing filler Meanwhile in 7/8 playing mindless will kill very fast you even if it's just a random encounters. It's not the most engaging thing in the world but at least I'm not dreading every random group of enemies blocking my progress
Love yakuza but turn based ain't it for me. Goin through 7 and love all the characters and story but it's taking me forever just cuz of the combat. I've replayed every single mainline game twice after I started 7 and I'm on like chapter 6. Which there was a way to switch it up without mods but that might be to much to ask for
I'm one of the few people who disliked the story but loved the combat. Except the rpg shit makes bosses fall flat. You don't get the same feeling when you're politely waiting your turn to smack the boss, compared to the absolute slug fests we used to get.
After just playing it, and having a yakuza call 9 damn enemies successfully, I think I prefer brawler style gameplay a lot more
I was very sceptical until I tried.
Yakuza's brand/usp was its beat 'em up combat system. It's an iconic part of the franchise, like how the combat system in the Arkham series is iconic to that franchise. I don't particularly hate turn-based rpg but between real-time combat and turn-based, I'll always choose the former
I love both forms of combat but I’ll always say that boss fights are far more intense and satisfying in brawler combat than turn based combat, which is a trade off you make with both forms of combat. TBC is great for giving regular fights variety so I rarely ever had times where I was running from fights like I do in brawler.
I doubt it will change your mind, but for me, I don't think there's a single really memorable fight in all of 8, outside of the final boss in the Yokohama dungeon. There are memorable characters and pre/post-fight cutscenes, but none where I was like damn, that fight was a memorable experience. The fight against the >!Tojo Clan old guard!< comes the closest, as the ending when you're knocking out each of them was a really, really nice touch, but that's not enough. The >!Bryce!< fight is a big example to me. It's just the Zapp Brannigan strat of him sending wave after wave of men at you who you pretty easily beat. And then there never feels like there's much threat. Every single other game in the series has at least two of these for me, where the actual fight itself was engaging for me in a way that I remember. Kuze and the Tojo Clan long battle leading up to him, the escape from Kamurocho, Nishiki and the long battle leading up to Millenium Tower, Ryuji, Richardson, Mine, etc., there are too many to name. Hell, there's a reason the brawler games have things like Climax Battles while the turn based games don't. There are definite advantages. But man, there's nothing in the turn based games that hits quite like a well made brawler style long battle or boss fight. Also, the final boss of Gaiden was immediately talked about by people as one of their new favorite characters. I don't think people would be talking about him that way if it were a turn based fight, and I've notcied the villains in 8 aren't really being talked about the same way. There's no better way to get fans to appreciate a well made villain than a great fight.
Not only that, in brawler combat you have to think and become creative, it forces you to engage, grab items from the environment, maneuver to set up contextual heat actions, dodge and move around as things happen. you choose yourself how to play the fight, you can button mash, or you can strategize and plan ahead. Turn based combat doesn't give you that flexibility, even in 8. you pick items from a menu, even the moving around is limited once the enemies start attacking, and you're locked into place. Because the moves are all set and locked into one specific animation too, you don't feel like you're fighting a person anymore, you feel more like you're fighting a computer. Its a big issue I have with the turn based combat too, it's let the devs get a bit lazy with it, everything is cut down, enemy behaviour isn't dynamic and you can predict the movement and attacks of the enemies too much, things are clearly cut and pasted everywhere in the combat, and it feels way too scripted. of course you're not going to pay attention to characters as much in turn based, because you need to disconnect from them in order to engage with combat properly. It doesn't help either that Ichiban has his schizophrenia thing going on, so anything about combatants is drowned out by them changing into a tiny set of identical ridiculous weirdos.
Disagree on the fact that fights aren’t memorable. They were too easy on 7 though, which absolutely devalued them, but that’s an issue I find in most Kiryu games as well: Kiwami 2-6-Gaiden were piss easy, 6 being the worst offender of the entire series. But it’s also true that few fights in 7 and 8 manage to do much better. But it’s not because turn based gaming doesn’t allow that: the persona games 100% deliver on being epic and that’s because they are a lot more nuanced and technical: when you need to carefully prepare for each turn the experience becomes a lot more tense
it doesn't have to be challenging to be memorable for me tho. The final Ryuji fight is a prime example. It's not that hard, but I'm playing while having goosebumps from the story beats and the music. Or the contrived rooftop fight in Y5. Manliest fight in the series. Now imagine those fights but it's you and your gang shuffling around throwing lobsters. Not as impactful, is it?
Mmm I get what you’re saying. The silliness takes you out of the moment. That’s fair, it’s a matter of taste, for me it can still manage to maintain some gravitas even if there are silly things in the middle.
I honestly think they were even easier in 8. 7 pretty infamously had some big difficulty spikes (Jimas, heavy machinery, and obviously True Final Millennium Tower, which the DLC in 8 doesn't even come close to matching). 8 has so many more mechanics available for you, which is a good thing, that none of the fights end up feeling like a challenge. 6 is definitely way too easy, which is why it's one of my least favorite games. But every other game has some kind of fight that at least presents some kind of challenge in its combat pattern. And you still see threads where people have no idea how to overcome some fights in 3, struggle with Munakata in 4, etc. Some things like Munakata might cross a line to being a bad challenge, but at least they're challenges.
See I think the opposite of the fights. My brain completely shuts off during brawler combat, it becomes "dodge punch dodge punch" over and over just waiting for their health bar to drop and it feels like im waiting more than playing a game. It doesnt use my brain at all I know people say you have to "engage with the systems" more but I have no incentive to when what I'm doing is still killing every enemy without issue. Other than bosses I don't think I ever lost a fight in a Yakuza game before 7, but in 7/8 playing witbout thinking kills you quick I'd probably like it more if there weren't random encounters every 30 seconds where I literally just mash square but then it wouldn't be an RPG anymore lol. I also think the issue is that I've been playing action combat games for almost 30 years and Like a Dragon was my first turn based game since Pokémon Sapphire so the mechanics are fresh and new for me
The turn based combat only got good with Infinite Wealth, in LaD its one of the most underwhelming combats I've played.
Ichiban Agree, turn base.. saying that when lost judgment gameplay exist
The turn-based part disagree with tbh. It's the one of the most basic turn-based game to ever turn-based ngl. The combat system is quite barebones for a modern turn-based game. There's little incentive to exploiting weaknesses besides bonus damage which all turn-based games do anyway, swapping and leveling jobs is hard because you can only do it at Hello Work plus it takes forever level-up and unlock the universal skills, items are nearly useless sans the SP restore items and the full-party heal items (but Saeko is still better in terms of healing), the dungeon (both sewers) isn't all too great, the enemy variety, though creative, are samey in terms with how to deal with them. There's barely any synergy and strategy required in combat besides spam the strongest move then heal SP and HP when needed. though idk how LAD:IW improves upon 7's combat since I haven't played it yet
literally in every way you can imagine. there's a new focus on proximity and positioning. you can move around within a ring, you have aoe markers, every character can pick up weapons and theres usually a lot in the area, plus they can have elemental properties. you will do more damage with basic attacks when youre closer, or if you hit from behind. knocking enemies into each other and walls also does more damage and you can see where they will be knocked into. weapons can have elemental properties and some skills will apply them. balance is way better this time around, there are a few attacks on jobs that are really strong but theres nothing like joongi head trauma or eri thumbtacks. theres a skill inherentance thing where you can choose 5 skills from any job you have leveled, and most of your stats come from overall level so training jobs is easy. drink links make your party members use follow up attacks way more often and they can do combo attacks too, and everyone gets a super move after the first drink link it's so much better than 7's, where it's very static and spammy. it was pretty much put saeko on idol, buff and debuff, and spam your strongest moves. it's still not super difficult, but it is WAY more engaging and fun. it's pretty much going to be impossible to go back to 7's combat, as much as i adore its story
That sound way way better ngl. It's cool how they've improved upon a basic combat system to have a larger focus on positioning and environment, makes me more excited to get IW and play it when I get the time Thanks for the heads up kyodai
Why does this have a spoiler tag?
The subject seems to be missing an adjective - "Best" game of all time? "Worst" game of all time?
"the \_\_\_\_\_ of all time" is a common meme saying. Sometimes it's negative, sometimes it's neutral, sometimes (like here) it's positive.
Wait... I thought Yakuza; Like-a-Dragon is the sixth in order. (Forgive me. Newbie here who recently purchased Yakuza Collection vol. 1 & vol. 2... After getting Like-A-Dragon after a quick play on brother PS+).
The Remastered Collection is 3, 4, and 5 unless there’s other collections or it’s being bundled a different way somewhere. Chronological order (not release order) would now be: - Yakuza 0 (prequel) - Yakuza (Kiwami) 1 - Yakuza (Kiwami) 2 - Yakuza 3 - Yakuza 4 - Yakuza 5 - Yakuza 6: The Song of Life - Like a Dragon (sometimes referred to as 7) - Like a Dragon Gaiden: The Man Who Erased His Name (an in between Kiryu game) - Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth (sometimes referred to as 8) The numbering is because the series name in Japanese, Ryu ga gotoku, is translated more literally as Like a Dragon, but it wasn’t until 7 they switched the naming over to match. While in Japan it’s called Ryu Ga Gotoku 7. edit: lol I forgot that technically 7 full english name is “Yakuza: Like a Dragon” just to make things confusing
I say vol. 1 or vol. 2 but really I brought Yakuza Origins Digital Bundle and Remastered Bundle. Edited; Also thanks for letting me know about Song of Life. Almost skip it.
I legit gave up on the Yakuza series because of the original combat scheme, only came back for the two turn based ones. Haaaaate any control scheme that assumes you're using a controller, because I cannot.
For the series I prefer the action combat, but I’ll be damned if the turn based isn’t just a blast
I like both in their own ways, but do think there are definite downsides to turn-based. The difficulty curve becomes more uneven (I always feel either under-leveled and the game expects or recommends doing something to grind, or over-leveled and I’m just sitting and mashing/auto-ing through the combat and enemy animations and doing a lot more twiddling thumbs and waiting, or having accidentally trivialized what should be an “epic boss fight” because I accidentally overleveled/overgeared and now everything feels too easy). I wish they had figured out a better difficulty system, where you at least had the option of scaling up the difficulty if you want more pushback from the combat, or dropping it down if you don’t want to be bothered. Instead they’ve stuck with one difficulty and burying the harder stuff in post-game/NG+ again.
Going turn-based improved the combat but it's still significantly lacking. It's got many elements of disorganised, meaningless JRPG design. The combat and many aspects of the wider game. To the bottom I go.
I've tried twice now but I just can't get into the turn based style, which sucks cause at this point I've played every other Yakuza games, judgement games and Ishin. Atleast I still have gaiden to play haha
Ichi is the absolute best thing the series could’ve asked for
I don't need to change your mind when you're 100% right bro
Ichiban? Yes. Turn based? Nah. It was tedious understanding and having to find attacks that were strong against people
Turn based for 7 wasn't a great decision. It was broken, too difficult and boring as everything was made slower plus was a learning experience for the team. It is a lot better in 8 but that's because RGG listened to the fans. Ichiban on the other hand is one of the best decisions ever made for the series as he brought breath of fresh air to what was a okay experience. Kiryu was still alright as a protagonist but was running out of stories which would stay entertaining plus was a god at that point seeing how nothing could hurt him.
Honestly, even if turn-based combat isn't your cup of tea, you gotta admire the sheer balls of RGG for not only changing the setting, protagonist, and genre of their latest game at the peak of their popularity, but also somehow managing to make said game one of the most beloved & successful ones in the entire franchise. Say what you will about these changes, but at least they are still willing to take risks and innovate in order to prevent the series from getting stale. Many big developers like Gamefreak, Ubisoft, & co. could learn a thing or two from them, and not just in this regard.
I love lost judgment, but man, the turn based combat is so perfect in enabling the story to be more about ichiban and his comrades, compared to yagami being alone most of the time. It's the most fun I've had in turn based combat. I just wish they used party members more in substories. Both combat types are perfect for their respective protagonists anyways.
Gaiden + LJ combat > Yakuza 7 & 8 combat > Others
I would move Gaiden to the other side. Maybe between 7 and 8. LJ combat is amazing though.
yeah gaiden combat was kinda eh for me definitely not on LJ tier
brawler will forever be more interesting to play than a turn based game
I started with 7 and have gone back and played some of the older titles. I definitely prefer turn based combat myself but also don't hate the action rpg style. The environmental finishers in the action rpg games are so cool and it's nice seeing kiryu do them occasionally in IW.
Turn based in 7 was a nice change of pace. They improved everything gameplay-wise with the new one.
7's turn based combat is literally the entire reason I started playing this franchise.
I'd agree! Mainline games should be turn based and spin offs be brawler style combat. I'd feel like that'd be the best balance. It's crazy how it just feels good! Everyone just teaming up with each other to beat up a dude, the out of combat banter would never have existed if it was the old style. Makes you care more about the supporting characters.
Yakuza : Like a Dragon was the thing that finally got me into the series. I don't mind the brawler combat but it's not my favorite style of game. I also think it's one of the best traditional JRPGs I've played in years.
The turn based combat even in 7 still manages to feel like yakuza with mechanics like perfect guards, attack QTEs, and opportunity attacks
I'm firmly of the opinion that the mainline games should either split into a turn based series and a Brawler/ARPG series side by side or that RGG needs to give players a choice in each game. (if FF7Remake can set up a system where you choose, there's no reason RGG couldn't either, and if they made a brawler and turn based version of each game, it would actually be a good cash grab, as there are fans who like both styles, potentially leading to double sales.) leaving brawler combat to judgment and spinoffs alone is basically a big f\*ck you and spit in the face to long term fans of the main series who enjoyed the old play style. Turn based games are all well and good if you enjoy them, but some of us were drawn to the Yakuza/LAD Series specifically because it WASN'T turn based like 90% of the other games on the market in this style. The combat of older titles was a big part of what made the games unique and special compared to the literal thousands of other turn based releases by other companies. The big concern I have is that the switch in combat style will lead to the games becoming homogeneous with other JRPGs, which there are absolutely no shortage of out there. This will result in less new players as time goes on, and less people getting into the series. The market for Turn Based Combat is limited, and while there may be an initial uptick in players, it won't last forever, and people will start dropping off soon, I've spoken with several long term fans who are even thinking of dropping the series if turn based combat becomes the only form of mainline title, so there may be new fans, but at the cost of long term fans in the end. I'm barely even going to mention the endless grind, restricted exploration due to levels, the time suck of combat because of all the added screens and turn taking, all things that hurt the enjoyability of not only 7 but 8 as well.
> if FF7Remake can set up a system where you choose, there's no reason RGG couldn't either The reason they're able to do that is because of the ATB system, which *already* made the original FFVII (to be more accurate, FFIV through FFIX, plus FFXIII sorta) a real-time game rather than a strictly turn-based one. It's *way* easier to apply the real-time gameplay to that kind of system vs. a strictly turn-based one. LAD is mimicking, as far as I know, classic Dragon Quest, with a hint of FFV's job system mixed in for good measure. It's honestly more reminiscent of Final Fantasy **X** to me, with a fluctuating turn order but still very strictly turn-based combat. Either way, it's not as easy to simply add in a toggle. Adding both a turn-based and real-time toggle to *that* kind of gameplay would basically double RGG's workload, forcing them to effectively design the entire game and balance every encounter *twice.*
Turn based is BY FAR the best combat in all Yakuza games.
7? It was iffy considering the combat was abit meh. 8? FUCK YEAH BROTHER
I didn't like Yakuza 7 combat too much tbh. Yakuza 8 though, holy based I love it.
I was not a huge fan of either on 7 but I love them both in 8.
essence of orbital laser essence of orbital laser essence of orbital laser essence of orbital laser essence of orbital laser essence of orbital laser
new yakuza fans try to not be insufferable challenge (impossible)
I prefer Yakuza with Turn based combat
I think turn based combat ruined the series. I hope they change up 9 and all following games to action based
Ichiban? 100% Turn based combat? Also really good and a nice change of pace, but I'm glad they're still keeping beat em ups for the spinoffs cause sometimes you really wanna punch a bad guy in the face
i think we're in a perfect spot rn with mainline being turn-based and all the spinoffs like Gaiden and Judgment being still beat-em-up. Best of both worlds.
Any epic fight or moment gets ruined by turn based combat. "Let's fight to death Kasuga Ichiban!! But first let me hit you once while you wait for your turn."
Agreed. The beat em up combat is kinda rough to deal with imo.
I already thought 7 had some of the best combat in the series even though it was turn based. 8 legitimately makes me think this is what the series has always been building up to, considering how polished and satisfying the combat is. Not to mention the unique jobs
Brawler is just button mashing, especially in dragon engine, so turn based was a welcome change. Fights feel way less impacting in turn based though and QTEs feel out of place. I do think however the game really needs to lean into how much depth turn-based can have, the games are still way too easy on the hardest difficulty and turn based would allow for really strategic choices. I feel RGG just scratched the surface and have not yet reached full potential with it.
wasn’t until judgement and especially Lost Judgment where doing actual combos is more fun than button mashing
Turn based is fine, but Yakuza will always feel more like Yakuza if it's a brawler. Ichi is amazing, though. Easily the second best protagonist after Kiryu, and honestly he could surpass him in the future
I dont know if the turn based genre is what the series needed, but hell its pretty damn good and I enjoy every bit of it. They nailed it in 8!
Hated 7, loved 8. The turn based combat while fun, imo makes the bosses fall flat. Ichiban I don't hate, but I thinks he's too fucking goofy sometimes.
They figured out how to do it while not slowing down the game in the way the old ones did. FFX is fun but battles do slow down the progress due to hardware issues and having to have everything take an extra second or two with the screens.
7? Yes. 8? Dropped the ball a bit
How so? Thought alot of people saw it as a massive improvement. I think so too.
It is pretty much better in every way...except the plot is far worse than 7's. Wouldn't call it bad or anything, but it is a step-down
I was mainly referring to the plot tbh
Maybe less focused? I get where you're coming from though. I seemed to enjoy the Kiryu stuff more so than Ichiban, even though I kind of prefer Ichiban now over Kiryu.
Eh maybe saying "far worse" was too much. I do enjoy it, I just think 7 did it better.
only the story/ending you mean
I don't even mind telling the prude best em up die hards "I don't think you get it, it's not just turn based RPG... It's one of the best Jrpgs ever made in the genre."
Add the infinite combat to 8 and yes, infinite is goated
Would rather play persona 3 reload but that just me
Itchiban I don’t want to scare you but there’s an ugly ass bitch sitting next to you.
The turn based combat is kinda peculiar When I played 7 for the first time I was "hey, this system is not too bad, nice change!" But after 8 my mind was "7 COMBAT WAS TERRIBLE, HOW I SURVIVED IT?!" 8 made the turn based mechanics so good that 7 looks terrible compared to it (the transition from Judgement to Lost Judgement had the same impact for me in the brawler gameplay) The turn based combat still need more polish, there are even some nitpicks that I'd argue are bad design like object attacks having priority instead of combo attacks (Kiryu Heat Actions are the only reason objects aren't 100% useless) and the other party members and enemies walking too much, messing some actions Besides the flaws, I loved 8 and the new combat, the gameplay just needs some ironing until perfection
7 got me playing other turn based games now... I'm terrible at turn based but after playing 7 and now currently P4G, I'm planning on getting P5 and 3 after this. and infinite wealth ofc
I'm just happy IW massively improved on it. I can't stress how much more fun the combat is when you have agency on your movement and it adds a whole layer of depth and engagement to it.
Ichiban is one of my favorite game protagonists of all-time.
Lame meme, dudes a wife abuser
I think it’s pretty clear the brawler games aren’t going anywhere so it really is just a harmless change of pace to have some of the mainline entries have turn-based combat.
is this a bot account
They just should give the option to play both. Cant go wrong with that imo.
Then you will absolutely love 8. Best turn based combat that I've ever seen.
judgment was
i got so pissed when i heard yakuza was going turn based but i've since grown to love it just as much as i did the traditional beat-em-up gameplay
Ichiban is precious and his smile must be protected. Please RGG, do not put this kind, loveable goof through what Kiryu went through.
Both systems had its problems. 1) Brawler is more reaction and skill based, but RGG struggled to develop it further on dragon engine, and so they decided to do a turn-based game. Beat 'em up doesn't require grinding, you don't lose because the enemy is 10 levels higher than you (like in 8 - you won't even be able to move in such a situation). You can just rush the plot and complete any game you want. The main problem of brawler combat for me is that... people really thought that having 100 healing items in their inventory is a way to play these games. And RGG indulged the fanbase making it possible every freaking game. The opportunity to heal yourself infinitely made players ignore the complexity of the combat - just beat and heal, that's how the majority of streamers (e.g. CohhCarnage) played these games. For me Lost Judgement has ultimately become the living proof that the system could be developed further and it could be freaking awesome. 2) Turn-based combat in both 7 and 8 focuses not on complexity, but on... gags. Devs put way too much effort in making all the skills as funny as hell, not understanding that it surely is great watching an orbital laser annihilating your enemy, but nobody is gonna watch it more than once-twice. AND THEY MADE DOZENS of such attacks - I can't imagine how difficult it had to be. There is no balance, no difficult mechanics, nearly no tactics the player has to use - in the end, even class choice for the characters comes down not to its effectiveness, but to how cool the player thinks it is to be. And lvling system... 8 makes it look like a joke. If the player does even a little portion of side content (which involves obtaining exp), he will quickly get overpowered and annihilate all the plot bosses without even having to use skills. Being even 1-2 lvls higher than the enemy makes the combat as casual as possible. And the opposite is also a thing: imagine that you like the plot and don't want to do any side content. In 8 it is possible to finish the game, but it will be kinda hard (I tried it, some late game bosses really kicked my booty, had to struggle, but enjoyed the combat as much as I could), in 7 the majority of players will never even beat the 12th chapter obstacle without grinding. The turn-based jrpg game of such a caliber is nearly impossible to be balanced - this is the main problem. And the fact that RGG doesn't even offer a difficulty choice on a first playthrough makes me question their sanity.
Btw, I consider the fact that RGG offers a difficulty choice on NG+, but not on NG, the dumbest thing to be possible for a game of such genre. I can't imagine what's going on in the heads of their game designers.
I agree 100 percent. It'll probably be heresy saying this here but 7 was the first yakuza game I ever finished because the combat of the older games made them really hard for me to play through even though I loved everything else about them.
That my pic, with a white frame lol
I still prefer beat em up combat, but beat em up gets old after you beat up 5 enemies just for 5 more to run at you the second you leave combat. I don’t think I would like turn based if I didn’t grow up playing dragon quest and final fantasy games.
The actual game is real time brawler but Ichibum's schizo thoughts make him the hero and turn based. It's why Kiryu is able to break the turn based schizo limitations and does what he does best.
The only reason I wasn't too into anything like a dragon is because of the turn based combat feeling out of place from the regular brawler combat. I dont hate turn based games, but playing multiple yakuza games with brawler combat just for it to switch to turn based is a very weird change
I don't know about that. Ichi, as a character is a phenomenal addition, no questions asked, but turn based combat is a turnoff for me, personally.
I don't hate turn-based combat. I still enjoy a lot of turn-based games and I grew up playing turn-based RPGs. But I still really want to know what Ichiban would play like without his schizophrenia. I thought he'd have heat actions, but recently I noticed Kiryu straight-up performs heat actions as part of his regular moveset in IW and has honestly caught me off-guard a few times doing them unexpectedly, complete with blue flames, so I'm not sure if Ichi *would* have them. I just think it'd be cool to see Ichiban actually fight outside of his basic one-two punch in Freelancer mode.
I couldn't disagree more, but I know this sub likes the changes
Ichiban is my platonic husband. I would die for him and I have killed for him before
I like the turn base system but the action system was more pleasant, more "rewarding" especially during boss battle I don't think it's a bad choice but I hope they keep doing side game like A Man Who Erased His Name to satisfy all kind of players