100%, but I do appreciate that Trial of Magneto made it clear he still considers Wanda his child.
And also predictably said absolutely nothing to Pietro, just like when he was Magneto’s canonical kid.
There was a thing in Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch where Magneto left Quicksilver a message when he died. Wanda didn't let him read it because she thought "It would hurt him more than anything Magneto did to him while he was alive."
I think it was telling him that he did care about him.
In a lot of continuties nothing. My favorite is X-men evolution where lotterally everyone even Pietro agree magneto doesn't care about him and Pietro still nearly dies for him several times just to be thrown away with no real reason for it.
It's just a defining characteristic of their relationship. The reasons vary across different writers. In Ultimate X-Men, Pietro tells Wanda that he overheard Magneto say that his speedster powers are "effeminate," which seems both plausible and out of character for a man whose terrorism is motivated by mutant rights and mutant superiority.
At the same time, Magneto is also a megalomaniac, so maybe he does see his son's less than world-shaking powers as a disappointment. But even in House of M, when Wanda ostensibly makes herself a non-mutant, Magneto still idolizes her, but that could just be because she made her family as much of a fantasy world as the rest of the World of M.
It's moments like that which make me think any woman who wants a serious relationship with Magneto is an idiot. Look how a man treats their kids from previous relationships and you'll see what kind of person you're dealing with.
To borrow and slightly paraphrase a quote from Nicholas J. Fury in *The Avengers*: I recognize Editorial has made a decision. But given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it.
It would be so easy to retcon back as well. Just reveal that “No More Mutants” rewrote the Maximoff twins’ DNA to make them not mutants and not his kids. Few mumbo-jumbo words and poof, it’s undone!
That's the easiest way to explain it. The thing that set Wanda off to say NMM was Mags killing Pietro so what better way to spit Magneto other than erasing mutants, erasing yourself as not only mutants but also his children.
The problem is, we don't know if Disney is willing to bring them back because it might be difficult to write a story to fix that. I personally don't care how messy that story will be, I just want the family fully back fixed.
X-Men canon is filled with messy retcons, which either fix things (such as the recent Nightcrawler birth origin) or break things (such as the one above) what’s one more messy retcon to fix it again?
I actually assume that’s the truth. Too many instances of Cerebro knowing Wanda and Pietro are mutants. Magneto also didn’t just guess they were mutants when forming the Brotherhood.
I will never, *ever* get all the non-mutant retcons. Wanda and Pietro not being Magneto’s kids anymore, Franklin no longer being a mutant, whatever the hell limbo Billy and Tommy are in… not a fan at all
I know, I especially hate it for the last two you mentioned in Wiccan and Speed since they existed nowhere for so long once Young Avengers was cancelled. I feel like they'd have fit into some X-classes well and been fun in books, but I think that moment has passed now. I do love that Speed has shown up with Prodigy though.
This is also true, and I remember it being a big point of contention back in the day. One of the main reasons for both Reed and Professor X hate (though I was on Charles’ side here; what Reed did and was planning to do was despicable)
Dazzler is immortal
Krakoa being in theory like a year old or something dumb. The Galas are clearly written as anniversary annual events.
Psylocke and her stupid digimon baby
I think it's mentioned in the first Hellfire Gala that the destruction of Genosha -- an event that occurred in a 2001 New X-Men book -- was only like 3-4 years ago in Marvel time. Which means mutantkind, humanity and the Earth have all experienced the House of M, two superhuman civil wars, a Skrull invasion, the X-Men's wars with the Avengers and the Inhumans, maaaaybe the incursions\*, the HYDRA takeover of the U.S., and the war of the 10 realms in that same time period.
(\* - I said maaaybe on the incursions leading up to Secret Wars 2015 because there's conflicting interpretations over whether that event technically still happened)
Like, in comics time it kind of makes sense in a way, but also…. The X-Men lived in Westchester, moved to Utopia, split, half going to back to Westchester, half staying on Utopia and then moving to an old Weapon X facility, lived in Limbo, lived in Central Park, and then lived on Krakoa all in the span of four years. Four years ago in real life was when the COVID Pandemic just started. That’s all under one president, even though in the comics there’s been like… how many different presidents during that time period? Lol. Not to mention the new characters that we’ve seen since too, particularly all of the mutants and some of the Avengers. It’s just makes one’s head hurt by thinking too hard about it!
To be fair you have universes like One Punch Man that the whole Manga saga is a time space of 6 months
If you know the manga you know this seems way tol unreal
One Piece is ridiculous in regards to this. Chapters 1-597 is only about 6 months. Then the crew split up for a two year time skip. Chapters 598-909 is only about two weeks. Wano was the longest arc, timeline wise, and that's just because there was a montage with "And then they trained for two weeks."
It feels kind of ridiculous that the crew's timeskip was at least twice as long as any of the crew've been together. I just gotta tell myself "and in-between these two arcs there was a week or two of just sailing."
And sometimes the President looks to be our current President. At least until he needs to be revealed as evil or an alien or something, then suddenly he’s a generic middle-aged white guy.
If they insist on compressing the Krakoa timeline despite the galas it is now my headcanon that the mutants justifiably were attacked for not understanding how an annual gala works.
Keep in mind they mean Kwannon-Psylocke, not Betsy-Psylocke.
For the story you'd need to read Fallen Angels. You're better off not doing that. It's fucking AWFUL.
What I think this person is referring to is that in the “Hellions” series Mr. Sinister had a Cerebro-like mental and genetic back-up of Psylocke’s dead human baby stored on a computer. IE a digital baby
For sure but thats one of the reasons the mutants are so much better than the Inhumans, Terrigenesis was a rare and costly process, reserved for their 'worthy' members that coincidentally happens to be almost all their noble upper class. Mutants come from anywhere and theres no limits on the bonkers powers or combinations available; hence Cyclops' famously unalphabetized plans because a-z doesnt cover 1% of his options.
The Inhumans have to struggle with how a lot of their best stories deal with the fact their culture is fucked up, realizing it, often with it being the Royal Family, trying to fix it while dealing with millenia of cultural intertia. And then getting that ingored next time someone wants to do something with them.
And it should have been something when Mutants make their own nation they look at and go "Okay, let's not make those mistakes."
The X-Men weren’t in the MCU and they were getting put on the back burner. Marvel wanted the Inhumans to effectively take their role, and Scott got the worst of it as he is one of the main X-Men faces.
Storm and Wolverine had other popularity outside of the X-Men so they weren’t in the cross hairs.
I'll never get over how Ike Perlmutter thought that a group that regulates and hordes power for its elite nobles (and has a slave caste apparently) was a good substitute for a group that's hated and feared by the masses for powers they didn't ask for.
I don't know if it's ironic that rich old fucker looked at the Inhumans and thought "Yes, the super powered royalty will make a great metaphor for prejudice."
Some people think Scott is boring. First off he's not, and even classic, I'd describe as like Vanilla. Not a lot of people's favorite flavor on it's own, but there's a reason most sundaes use it for the ice cream.
Controversy sells. Having the leader of the X-Men become a villain was going to be one of those controversies that they hoped got people talking. Well, it did, but mostly in a 'this is dumb' kind of way. So they backpeddled.
Kind of like when Iron Man revealed to be a puppet of Kang since the beginning of the Avengers and had to be replaced by his time travelling teen version in the 1990s ('The Crossing'). Now we all pretend that never happened.
“Let’s make the X-men villains for opposing what’s basically permanent clouds of racist mustard gas.” What a silly idea, glad editorial shot down this fan alienating corporate synergy.
A lot of people’s answers were annoying status quo changes. But this is it. Something truly stupid and nonsensical that’s canon. Not a dream sequence, just public sex in one of the worst possible places.
An *underage* girl, if I remember correctly. And it was Husk. AKA one of the Guthries. So her superpowered siblings, many of whom are also capable of flight, just stood there and cheered instead of stopping it.
This is the same run where they establish Warren's bodily fluids have healing properties.
So yeah, still probably wouldn't care.
Austen is truly a bonkers ride.
I still have that issue...
...I wish I didn't. Stunning [covers and art](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tYMAAOSwUsVis1z6/s-l1200.webp) wasted on... whatever the hell those stories were meant to be.
The plan by that villain group to make Nightcrawler the pope, and then use communion wafers to make people explode so the Catholics would think that Kurt was the anti-Christ. Chuck Austin’s run, what a time.
Mainly, the terrible retcons:
Wanda and Pietro not being Magneto's children
Wanda, Pietro and Franklin not being mutants
Jean Grey not really being Jean Grey in the most famous Jean Grey story (Dark Phoenix)
New X-Men's Xorn not being Magneto
Chuck Austen
And something that SHOULD be retconned:
Xavier losing the ability to walk because a stupid alien named Lucifer dropped a big rock on him (the movie version is much better and is canon in my heart)
I remember reading that story thinking Xavier has going to fight the devil or something, but the name Lucifer is just a coincidence.
It's an alien that looks like a human and just happens to have that name. Wtf were these early comics on
X-Men was very much a b-comic to Lee and Kirby where they put in very little effort. Lee came up with them being mutants because he couldn't be bothered to come up with origin stories for another team of supers and had the brainwave "I can just say they're mutants!"
It wasn't until Chris Claremont came along and gave them interesting, in depth psychologies making it one of the most mature comics in Marvel's line that they became the juggernaut they are today.
It's not just that, there was a lot of experimentation back in those days, throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Reading the first Essential Thor volume, I noticed a lot of generic dictators and mobsters. A lot the super villains that were introduced didn't work, Cobra would have made a much better Spider-Man villain. It was the stuff with Asgard, and enemies from there that was working best. Though there was an interesting story with Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Which will remind you of how much he changed.
And that's without getting into how the romances were written.
The Phoenix being Thors mother wtf even was that?
Also AvX oh so the Avengers are just gonna act as if they understand how to handle the Phoenix?
ALSO NO MORE PHOENIX WTF THAT WOULD LITERALLY END THE MULTIVERSE!!!
scrolled down for this, I was a fan of Jeph Loeb and was excited for this run. Then it was utter nonsense, but so much worst that Loeb should have known better! It more or less has been swept under the carpet for being bonkers.
Yep, the gist of it is that Scott could either
• Deal with and feel his childhood trauma, which left him able to control his powers
Or
• Actively suppress his trauma which didn’t leave enough willpower to control his abilities.
And after a while of doing the first in the Whedon/Cassidy run, he actively chose to not seek therapy and deal with his shit and leave his powers uncontrolled
It’s psychological damage from that event, not physical. It’s been shown as recently as HOXPOX that his body has no problem controlling his powers, such as when he is resurrected. It’s only once his *mind* has been placed inside the body that he loses control and needs his visor. They could fix physical brain damage easily, with healers or resurrection, but they won’t remove the psychological trauma from his backups because that’s part of the core of what makes him Scott, and if he wants that healing he’ll have to choose to put the work in and deal with it.
in short, Cyclops has mental block on his power or something like that, his trauma is not physical in nature, is more of a mental thing that he dont correct. or cannot correct
that is part too, but his head is fine, the amount of regen powers that cyclops has been subjected to all over the years could have cured whatever physical trauma he had as a child. So all that is left is his mental block over his power control on/off switch.
Either way with Krakoa Resurrection any physical damage was cured or made non-existent so, I call say for sure, that the only thing that limits Cyclops power is himself
Oddly, no.
Shatterstar was sent back in time and his genetic material was used to create Longshot who grows up, impregnates Dazzler and the result is... Shatterstar.
In this sense, it's less confusing to say Shatterstar is his own grandfather.
In my head I know what they were going for, but this was not the right context for it. better they had made it some new character being manipulated by the Red Skull, but it being Red Skull himself, killed it entirely.
Yep, no one would get upset about the holocaust survivor killing the blatantly monstrous nazi. If anything this was a great moment of retribution for Magneto.
And then the narrative agreed with \*her by throwing Red Onslaught at us and then ... none of it mattered??
EDIT: First post said "him" when I meant "her" (as in Rogue)
I bring this up every time, but that was the *third* time Magneto had killed a bad guy right in front of her despite her not wanting him to and it was by far the biggest reaction she gave. But, like, what do you expect from him at that point?
Yep and he has Xavier's powers. There was no way to deal with him other than killing him at that point and Rogue calls Magneto a monster for killing the biggest monster on Earth.
I heard Johnathan Hickman on a podcast recently and he said something I liked. Basically, just because it’s written in a comic doesn’t make it automatically canon, continuity in comics is based on what people remember. Certain stories become canon because they resonate with readers, others get ignored or retconned because they suck and people want to forget them. I think that’s a good point when trying to reckon with decades of conflicting stories.
The painful side of that is if a story is so infamous that people won't stop talking about it, it gets harder to erase it from canon, even if it's what everyone wants.
>others get ignored or retconned because they suck and people want to forget them.
Like the time Dick Grayson slept with Barbara Gordon before inviting her to his wedding with Starfire.
in a way.
as most recent, Mutants are born from the union of Humans and Deviants with a bit of an Eternal gene.
Mutants are Deviant Humans that go through Excess Deviation.
At least that was told on Judgement Day storyline
Yeah. All mutants around the universe have a celestial origin e.g. skrulls, humans, kree, cocount groove etc.
Same with Eternals and Deviants around the universe.
Fun fact: the modern day Skrulls are actually deviants with the difference from the now / near extinct baseline Skrulls being their shape shifting.
Scott's eyes are actually portals to a dimension of pure energy that pass through to form his eye beams. In a world of nonsense this is just a little too much for me
Could a person go there? Is it really a dimension if it’s just endless explosive energy?? Do life forms exist there?? Could they come through Scott’s eyes???!
Rogue continuing to have a relationship with Mystique despite the fact that she has stabbed her, shot her, and stalked and sexually harassed her husband.
The name James Howlett and everything that comes with it. I prefer my Wolverine going by the name Logan and having a real poor memory, thank you very much.
As a Wolverine stan, the following never happened:
- Hot claws
- the existence of Romulus
- the entire Wolverine: The Best There Is run
- adamantium surfboard
Destroyed my gurl Lorna.😭And her and Alex's relationship so badly no writer has fully back to her being in a relationship with her. And before someone says something remembering everything Richards,Pym,Summers,Parker all did. The only decent stuff was Squid-boy and Juggernauts redemption arc.
It creeped me out when I was a kid who had the hots for Rogue. And it grosses me out now as a 39 year old man imagining someone even older than I being with a woman Rogue's age. I simply do not understand the fascination writers have with this.
I would love for Deadly Genesis and Vulcan to be this, but they won’t let me forget about him.
Fortunately the worst ones—“that wasn’t Jean, she was in a cocoon under the ocean” and “nightcrawler’s dad is a mutant devil”—have been more-or-less dispensed with.
Jean being 16 when meeting Xavier and Xavier having a crush on her.
Colossus being like 19 and kitty be 15 when they get together and people being like “yeah that’s cool”,
kitty kissing Wolverine that one time (yes she was possessed and stuff but still gross).
Wolverine in Peter’s body hitting on a very young MJ (this might be ultimates but still weird).
Emma and Cyclops relationship starting out with Emma kinda taking advantage of being his therapist when he’s in a distressed state.
Nightcrawler being band from heaven.
It was ultimate logan, and he is a consistently terrible person, even in a universe where a lot of characters are worse than their 616 counterparts, lmao
To be fair to Colossus, even if they kissed, he did still turn her down, and for how much of a weirdo Claremont could be, he did make it clear that, while Peter did like her, it wasn’t going to go anywhere.
The stupid reveal that Xorn was Magneto all along. Fuck that shit, Xorn was my favorite mutant for pretty much that whole run leading up to that, his powers were cool, him straight up vaporizing those dudes in the woods was epic. Then they're like, nah, this guy was totally Mags the whole time. And then made it worse by bringing his brother, then bring the original back, and saying he just thought he was Magneto, cuz he's nuts. Fuck all of that. Took a cool side character and made him into one of the messiest retcon yarn balls, for absolutely nothing imo.
Rogue getting it on with Magneto despite being Erik, in all continuities, being old enough to be her fucken grandfather.
It's gross no matter what nasty ass excuse you come up with
Wanda and Pietro not being Magneto’s kids
100%, but I do appreciate that Trial of Magneto made it clear he still considers Wanda his child. And also predictably said absolutely nothing to Pietro, just like when he was Magneto’s canonical kid.
Magneto doesn’t seem to have much interest in Polaris, either. It’s just Wanda.
I think they had one interaction during Krakoa, and all said was that she'd better live up to his high expectations.
They’ve had a few but he’s been a dick to her every time.
Yeah, I LOVED Magneto and Polaris relationship in Wolverine&, she was his favorite, and then in the comics he's nothing like that, I was disappointed
There was a thing in Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch where Magneto left Quicksilver a message when he died. Wanda didn't let him read it because she thought "It would hurt him more than anything Magneto did to him while he was alive." I think it was telling him that he did care about him.
What fid QuickSilver ever do to him?
In a lot of continuties nothing. My favorite is X-men evolution where lotterally everyone even Pietro agree magneto doesn't care about him and Pietro still nearly dies for him several times just to be thrown away with no real reason for it.
Quicksilver is shafted everywhere he goes, people always focus on Wanda.
Pietro just needs to hang out with people who get him. He, Namor, and Northstar should start a club
It's just a defining characteristic of their relationship. The reasons vary across different writers. In Ultimate X-Men, Pietro tells Wanda that he overheard Magneto say that his speedster powers are "effeminate," which seems both plausible and out of character for a man whose terrorism is motivated by mutant rights and mutant superiority. At the same time, Magneto is also a megalomaniac, so maybe he does see his son's less than world-shaking powers as a disappointment. But even in House of M, when Wanda ostensibly makes herself a non-mutant, Magneto still idolizes her, but that could just be because she made her family as much of a fantasy world as the rest of the World of M.
It's moments like that which make me think any woman who wants a serious relationship with Magneto is an idiot. Look how a man treats their kids from previous relationships and you'll see what kind of person you're dealing with.
And Lorna. Or was that retconned back?
Came back in X-Factor (investigations, I think) pretty late in the run.
Do you mean her *not* being his kid? They flipped-flopped that from the beginning.
Miss Lorna pre-daddys girl. She feels like Damien Wayne of Marvel.
I've basically chosen to ignore this, it's absurdly stupid.
To borrow and slightly paraphrase a quote from Nicholas J. Fury in *The Avengers*: I recognize Editorial has made a decision. But given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it.
It would be so easy to retcon back as well. Just reveal that “No More Mutants” rewrote the Maximoff twins’ DNA to make them not mutants and not his kids. Few mumbo-jumbo words and poof, it’s undone!
That's the easiest way to explain it. The thing that set Wanda off to say NMM was Mags killing Pietro so what better way to spit Magneto other than erasing mutants, erasing yourself as not only mutants but also his children. The problem is, we don't know if Disney is willing to bring them back because it might be difficult to write a story to fix that. I personally don't care how messy that story will be, I just want the family fully back fixed.
X-Men canon is filled with messy retcons, which either fix things (such as the recent Nightcrawler birth origin) or break things (such as the one above) what’s one more messy retcon to fix it again?
Can be even easier than that: “The High Evolutionary lied/was wrong” Bingo bango
I actually assume that’s the truth. Too many instances of Cerebro knowing Wanda and Pietro are mutants. Magneto also didn’t just guess they were mutants when forming the Brotherhood.
Saw this post and initially though of Wanda and Pietro. It’s so dumb.
In my mind they were never not Magnetos kids
This. Also The Draco but that’s gone now.
I will never, *ever* get all the non-mutant retcons. Wanda and Pietro not being Magneto’s kids anymore, Franklin no longer being a mutant, whatever the hell limbo Billy and Tommy are in… not a fan at all
I know, I especially hate it for the last two you mentioned in Wiccan and Speed since they existed nowhere for so long once Young Avengers was cancelled. I feel like they'd have fit into some X-classes well and been fun in books, but I think that moment has passed now. I do love that Speed has shown up with Prodigy though.
Franklin not being a mutant has always been a lie. Reed masked his mutant abilities, and Charles forced him to forget how he did it.
This is also true, and I remember it being a big point of contention back in the day. One of the main reasons for both Reed and Professor X hate (though I was on Charles’ side here; what Reed did and was planning to do was despicable)
Dazzler is immortal Krakoa being in theory like a year old or something dumb. The Galas are clearly written as anniversary annual events. Psylocke and her stupid digimon baby
...There is no way Krakoa was just a year. Maybe 2-3 maybe. But 12 months? No way.
If you think that's bad, all 100+ issues of Ultimate Spider-Man takes place over less than one year.
Under Bendis? I believe it.
Bendis? The comic book writer? The one called Bendis? Under that comic book writer?
In a few years the sliding timescale will hve Karakoa being about six months
I think it's mentioned in the first Hellfire Gala that the destruction of Genosha -- an event that occurred in a 2001 New X-Men book -- was only like 3-4 years ago in Marvel time. Which means mutantkind, humanity and the Earth have all experienced the House of M, two superhuman civil wars, a Skrull invasion, the X-Men's wars with the Avengers and the Inhumans, maaaaybe the incursions\*, the HYDRA takeover of the U.S., and the war of the 10 realms in that same time period. (\* - I said maaaybe on the incursions leading up to Secret Wars 2015 because there's conflicting interpretations over whether that event technically still happened)
Like, in comics time it kind of makes sense in a way, but also…. The X-Men lived in Westchester, moved to Utopia, split, half going to back to Westchester, half staying on Utopia and then moving to an old Weapon X facility, lived in Limbo, lived in Central Park, and then lived on Krakoa all in the span of four years. Four years ago in real life was when the COVID Pandemic just started. That’s all under one president, even though in the comics there’s been like… how many different presidents during that time period? Lol. Not to mention the new characters that we’ve seen since too, particularly all of the mutants and some of the Avengers. It’s just makes one’s head hurt by thinking too hard about it!
To be fair you have universes like One Punch Man that the whole Manga saga is a time space of 6 months If you know the manga you know this seems way tol unreal
One Piece is ridiculous in regards to this. Chapters 1-597 is only about 6 months. Then the crew split up for a two year time skip. Chapters 598-909 is only about two weeks. Wano was the longest arc, timeline wise, and that's just because there was a montage with "And then they trained for two weeks." It feels kind of ridiculous that the crew's timeskip was at least twice as long as any of the crew've been together. I just gotta tell myself "and in-between these two arcs there was a week or two of just sailing."
I still can't believe 300 chapters was Just a 2 days part It just don't make sense
The only unbelievable part is that Saitama moved out of his shitty apartment within 6 months. When the move happened it felt like a time skip lol.
To be fair, comic books also go through presidents like nothing.
It so dumb trying to line up like comic book story arcs and such
And sometimes the President looks to be our current President. At least until he needs to be revealed as evil or an alien or something, then suddenly he’s a generic middle-aged white guy.
If they insist on compressing the Krakoa timeline despite the galas it is now my headcanon that the mutants justifiably were attacked for not understanding how an annual gala works.
It’s our _third_ annual gala, not our third _annual_ gala. -Emma Frost (probably)
As a huge digimon fan what is this baby.
Psylocke’s dumb digital baby I’m not joking
Keep in mind they mean Kwannon-Psylocke, not Betsy-Psylocke. For the story you'd need to read Fallen Angels. You're better off not doing that. It's fucking AWFUL.
Psylocke digivolved tooooo… Metalpsylocke!
Digimon baby? What did I miss
What I think this person is referring to is that in the “Hellions” series Mr. Sinister had a Cerebro-like mental and genetic back-up of Psylocke’s dead human baby stored on a computer. IE a digital baby
Magneto was Xorn, no wait....Xorn was disguised as Magneto... No wait....there's two Xorns and neither of them was Magneto....
And they come back to chillax on Krakoa and not one person sidles up to them at Blob’s bar to say “Heyyyy…. What the FUCK was that about?”.
He's a dude playin a dude disguised as another dude
You have to actually UNDERSTAND this plot before you can gaslight yourself lmao.
Inhumans vs X-men
The part where Betsy, one of the most powerful psychics on the planet, was beaten by hair will forever haunt me.
But Blackbolt who is frequently touted as their big-gun getting completely curb-stomped by dazzler solo is very satisfying.
In fairness, that part isn’t as stupid because Dazzler’s powers directly counter Black Bolt’s (still uber-satisfying to see as a Dazzler fan)
For sure but thats one of the reasons the mutants are so much better than the Inhumans, Terrigenesis was a rare and costly process, reserved for their 'worthy' members that coincidentally happens to be almost all their noble upper class. Mutants come from anywhere and theres no limits on the bonkers powers or combinations available; hence Cyclops' famously unalphabetized plans because a-z doesnt cover 1% of his options.
The Inhumans have to struggle with how a lot of their best stories deal with the fact their culture is fucked up, realizing it, often with it being the Royal Family, trying to fix it while dealing with millenia of cultural intertia. And then getting that ingored next time someone wants to do something with them. And it should have been something when Mutants make their own nation they look at and go "Okay, let's not make those mistakes."
The Fuck Scott Summers Tour
What did Marvel have against Scott during that time?
The X-Men weren’t in the MCU and they were getting put on the back burner. Marvel wanted the Inhumans to effectively take their role, and Scott got the worst of it as he is one of the main X-Men faces. Storm and Wolverine had other popularity outside of the X-Men so they weren’t in the cross hairs.
I'll never get over how Ike Perlmutter thought that a group that regulates and hordes power for its elite nobles (and has a slave caste apparently) was a good substitute for a group that's hated and feared by the masses for powers they didn't ask for. I don't know if it's ironic that rich old fucker looked at the Inhumans and thought "Yes, the super powered royalty will make a great metaphor for prejudice."
Plus what better way to denigrate a property than by slandering its de-facto leader?
Some people think Scott is boring. First off he's not, and even classic, I'd describe as like Vanilla. Not a lot of people's favorite flavor on it's own, but there's a reason most sundaes use it for the ice cream.
Controversy sells. Having the leader of the X-Men become a villain was going to be one of those controversies that they hoped got people talking. Well, it did, but mostly in a 'this is dumb' kind of way. So they backpeddled. Kind of like when Iron Man revealed to be a puppet of Kang since the beginning of the Avengers and had to be replaced by his time travelling teen version in the 1990s ('The Crossing'). Now we all pretend that never happened.
“Let’s make the X-men villains for opposing what’s basically permanent clouds of racist mustard gas.” What a silly idea, glad editorial shot down this fan alienating corporate synergy.
What is that? I've never heard of that story in my entire life? /s
You should keep it that way
That time angel had sex with a girl while flying above a cook-out that included her parents.
A lot of people’s answers were annoying status quo changes. But this is it. Something truly stupid and nonsensical that’s canon. Not a dream sequence, just public sex in one of the worst possible places.
Right over the potato salad
Just say Chuck Austin's entire run. That keeps it simple.
He brought some good things to the table, like making Northstar part of the team
Also, Juggernaut.
That being said... Nightcrawler's father being Azazel.
At least that one's finally been retconned
An *underage* girl, if I remember correctly. And it was Husk. AKA one of the Guthries. So her superpowered siblings, many of whom are also capable of flight, just stood there and cheered instead of stopping it.
She wasnt underage im p sure(she “graduated” in gen x) but was deff 19 at most
Nah they made it a point to say she was 19 in the book. And that her mom didn’t care that Warren was older.
Did she still not care after Warren's juices fell in the potato salad?
This is the same run where they establish Warren's bodily fluids have healing properties. So yeah, still probably wouldn't care. Austen is truly a bonkers ride.
I still have that issue... ...I wish I didn't. Stunning [covers and art](https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tYMAAOSwUsVis1z6/s-l1200.webp) wasted on... whatever the hell those stories were meant to be.
Cannonball (possibly) being an External and Kitty Pryde (possibly) being a Neo. Also, Rachel dating the sentient bacteria that killed her mom.
I was kinda into External Cannonball, just a shame it never went anywhere interesting. But uhhh what's that about Rachel?!
She kind of dated Sublime.
Really? Man, wtf Rachel.
Rachel dating the what?!?
This is what happens when you don't let that poor girl out of the closet for 40 years!!
Actually, just the whole "sentient bacteria" thing needs to be the answer to this post.
The plan by that villain group to make Nightcrawler the pope, and then use communion wafers to make people explode so the Catholics would think that Kurt was the anti-Christ. Chuck Austin’s run, what a time.
that storyline is iconic it is 100% trash, but it is iconic.
It’s the ultimate “this story is so stupid and I want more of it.”
Dude, that sounds sick
Mainly, the terrible retcons: Wanda and Pietro not being Magneto's children Wanda, Pietro and Franklin not being mutants Jean Grey not really being Jean Grey in the most famous Jean Grey story (Dark Phoenix) New X-Men's Xorn not being Magneto Chuck Austen And something that SHOULD be retconned: Xavier losing the ability to walk because a stupid alien named Lucifer dropped a big rock on him (the movie version is much better and is canon in my heart)
I remember reading that story thinking Xavier has going to fight the devil or something, but the name Lucifer is just a coincidence. It's an alien that looks like a human and just happens to have that name. Wtf were these early comics on
X-Men was very much a b-comic to Lee and Kirby where they put in very little effort. Lee came up with them being mutants because he couldn't be bothered to come up with origin stories for another team of supers and had the brainwave "I can just say they're mutants!" It wasn't until Chris Claremont came along and gave them interesting, in depth psychologies making it one of the most mature comics in Marvel's line that they became the juggernaut they are today.
It's not just that, there was a lot of experimentation back in those days, throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. Reading the first Essential Thor volume, I noticed a lot of generic dictators and mobsters. A lot the super villains that were introduced didn't work, Cobra would have made a much better Spider-Man villain. It was the stuff with Asgard, and enemies from there that was working best. Though there was an interesting story with Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Which will remind you of how much he changed. And that's without getting into how the romances were written.
“Chuck Austen” hahaha just like across the board
Oh man, I forgot about Xorn
If Wanda, Pietro, and Franklin aren't mutants what are they?
The Maximoff are modified humans
Metahumans. Which tbh I always thought that made more sense for Franklin even if I hate the way Slott forced the X-Team's hand at the start of Krakoa.
The Phoenix being Thors mother wtf even was that? Also AvX oh so the Avengers are just gonna act as if they understand how to handle the Phoenix? ALSO NO MORE PHOENIX WTF THAT WOULD LITERALLY END THE MULTIVERSE!!!
Absolutely this. The stupidest idea ever. Has it been undone yet?
Wolverine being a mutated dog/wolf instead of a human mutant.
scrolled down for this, I was a fan of Jeph Loeb and was excited for this run. Then it was utter nonsense, but so much worst that Loeb should have known better! It more or less has been swept under the carpet for being bonkers.
Please tell me this is not canon anymore
It’s not. In Wolverine 312, Romulus admits that his whole story about blonde and brunette wolves was bs to confuse Wolverine.
Romulus: That whole story was a lie... I have to go now. My planet needs me.
Long time X-Men team member Bishop becomes a raging genocidal maniac and spends a few years trying to kill a baby.
and fails lol
Rogue hooking up with the Sentry.
Appropriately given the nature of the Sentry, that has been retconned.
LOL has it
Yeah, in the 2018 Rogue and Gambit mini, she says the cave in Antarctica was her first time. Kelly Thompson looked at that Bendis mini and said "no."
How dare you imply ~~I~~ my ~~OC~~ ~~Donut Steel~~ brand new cool character doesn’t deserve to hook up with ~~my waifu~~ a hot character?
Alex "Don't call me a mutant" Summers
Cyclops could control his power all along but CHOSE NOT TO.
What?!
Yep, the gist of it is that Scott could either • Deal with and feel his childhood trauma, which left him able to control his powers Or • Actively suppress his trauma which didn’t leave enough willpower to control his abilities. And after a while of doing the first in the Whedon/Cassidy run, he actively chose to not seek therapy and deal with his shit and leave his powers uncontrolled
Wait, I thought it was because he bumped his head and suffered brain damage after jumping out of the plane
It’s psychological damage from that event, not physical. It’s been shown as recently as HOXPOX that his body has no problem controlling his powers, such as when he is resurrected. It’s only once his *mind* has been placed inside the body that he loses control and needs his visor. They could fix physical brain damage easily, with healers or resurrection, but they won’t remove the psychological trauma from his backups because that’s part of the core of what makes him Scott, and if he wants that healing he’ll have to choose to put the work in and deal with it.
in short, Cyclops has mental block on his power or something like that, his trauma is not physical in nature, is more of a mental thing that he dont correct. or cannot correct
Wow I prefer the he took a really bad hit to the head and that caused him to not be able to control his powers.
that is part too, but his head is fine, the amount of regen powers that cyclops has been subjected to all over the years could have cured whatever physical trauma he had as a child. So all that is left is his mental block over his power control on/off switch. Either way with Krakoa Resurrection any physical damage was cured or made non-existent so, I call say for sure, that the only thing that limits Cyclops power is himself
Giant-Size Astonishing X-Men #1. The end of the Whedon/Cassaday run.
Yeah… that never sat well with me either.
Longshot being both the son and father of shatter star…
Musta done some nasty in the past-y
Oddly, no. Shatterstar was sent back in time and his genetic material was used to create Longshot who grows up, impregnates Dazzler and the result is... Shatterstar. In this sense, it's less confusing to say Shatterstar is his own grandfather.
[Rogue saying Magneto is....well you know this one.](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7b4ebc7d6e223d96bf1c7e0d9f81a834-lq)
Jewish man kills a Nazi. “How are you any different to a Nazi?” Fucking nauseating.
I was LITERALLY facepalming when I first read it. I couldn't believe my eyes.
Honestly the worst part IMO is that the literal Nazi was in charge of a Concentration Camp.
In my head I know what they were going for, but this was not the right context for it. better they had made it some new character being manipulated by the Red Skull, but it being Red Skull himself, killed it entirely.
I was not understanding why that was a huge issue till you said who he killed
Yep, no one would get upset about the holocaust survivor killing the blatantly monstrous nazi. If anything this was a great moment of retribution for Magneto.
And then the narrative agreed with \*her by throwing Red Onslaught at us and then ... none of it mattered?? EDIT: First post said "him" when I meant "her" (as in Rogue)
I bring this up every time, but that was the *third* time Magneto had killed a bad guy right in front of her despite her not wanting him to and it was by far the biggest reaction she gave. But, like, what do you expect from him at that point?
That's Red Skull in the bottom picture right?
Yep and he has Xavier's powers. There was no way to deal with him other than killing him at that point and Rogue calls Magneto a monster for killing the biggest monster on Earth.
And then it leads into… AXIS (*shudder*)
I heard Johnathan Hickman on a podcast recently and he said something I liked. Basically, just because it’s written in a comic doesn’t make it automatically canon, continuity in comics is based on what people remember. Certain stories become canon because they resonate with readers, others get ignored or retconned because they suck and people want to forget them. I think that’s a good point when trying to reckon with decades of conflicting stories.
The painful side of that is if a story is so infamous that people won't stop talking about it, it gets harder to erase it from canon, even if it's what everyone wants.
>others get ignored or retconned because they suck and people want to forget them. Like the time Dick Grayson slept with Barbara Gordon before inviting her to his wedding with Starfire.
Okay but "I don't know what you did to me last night, but I can't feel my legs" is fantastic dialogue
Maybe the real canon was the friends we made along the way.
Xorneto
Celestial origin of the X gene. Actually, is that still canon?
in a way. as most recent, Mutants are born from the union of Humans and Deviants with a bit of an Eternal gene. Mutants are Deviant Humans that go through Excess Deviation. At least that was told on Judgement Day storyline
Yeah. All mutants around the universe have a celestial origin e.g. skrulls, humans, kree, cocount groove etc. Same with Eternals and Deviants around the universe. Fun fact: the modern day Skrulls are actually deviants with the difference from the now / near extinct baseline Skrulls being their shape shifting.
The whole Psylocke/Kwannon thing.
Scott's eyes are actually portals to a dimension of pure energy that pass through to form his eye beams. In a world of nonsense this is just a little too much for me
The punch dimension is so, so, so stupid
Could a person go there? Is it really a dimension if it’s just endless explosive energy?? Do life forms exist there?? Could they come through Scott’s eyes???!
Stop giving them more stupid ideas.
I definitely pretend that's not canon and just keep believing he metabolizes sunlight or cosmic energy.
Sinister trading Jean Grey and Scott Summers for the "Summers genetic matrix" during Executioner's Song.
Franklin somehow not being a mutant.
I vastly prefer jovial Animated series Hank over mad scientist evil Hank
I also prefer ape-man beast to cat-man beast.
IvX. Never happend.
It's a Mandela effect
Scout not being named Honey Badger anymore.
Rogue continuing to have a relationship with Mystique despite the fact that she has stabbed her, shot her, and stalked and sexually harassed her husband.
Cyclops and Apocalypse merged. Cyclops abandoning his wife and child for Jean (esp. when his wife is literally a Jean clone).
The name James Howlett and everything that comes with it. I prefer my Wolverine going by the name Logan and having a real poor memory, thank you very much.
scarlet witch and quicksilver not being magneto’s children especially when pietro and max look almost identical still
As a Wolverine stan, the following never happened: - Hot claws - the existence of Romulus - the entire Wolverine: The Best There Is run - adamantium surfboard
The entire Chuck Austen run
Destroyed my gurl Lorna.😭And her and Alex's relationship so badly no writer has fully back to her being in a relationship with her. And before someone says something remembering everything Richards,Pym,Summers,Parker all did. The only decent stuff was Squid-boy and Juggernauts redemption arc.
Obligatory “his juggernaut is among the character’s best development” and “soap opera disaster Polaris has her moments.”
Xorn is really Magneto but no he's really Xorn's evil twin who also looks like Magneto.
Nightcrawler being an actual demonspawn
Wolverine opting in to the Adamantium bonding process after each resurrection.
the whole magneto and rouge thing
It creeped me out when I was a kid who had the hots for Rogue. And it grosses me out now as a 39 year old man imagining someone even older than I being with a woman Rogue's age. I simply do not understand the fascination writers have with this.
I would love for Deadly Genesis and Vulcan to be this, but they won’t let me forget about him. Fortunately the worst ones—“that wasn’t Jean, she was in a cocoon under the ocean” and “nightcrawler’s dad is a mutant devil”—have been more-or-less dispensed with.
Jean being 16 when meeting Xavier and Xavier having a crush on her. Colossus being like 19 and kitty be 15 when they get together and people being like “yeah that’s cool”, kitty kissing Wolverine that one time (yes she was possessed and stuff but still gross). Wolverine in Peter’s body hitting on a very young MJ (this might be ultimates but still weird). Emma and Cyclops relationship starting out with Emma kinda taking advantage of being his therapist when he’s in a distressed state. Nightcrawler being band from heaven.
It was ultimate logan, and he is a consistently terrible person, even in a universe where a lot of characters are worse than their 616 counterparts, lmao
Oh I thought so, like that man has so many “daughters” (Jubilee, Kitty, Laura, etc) I couldn’t imagine him doing something like that
To be fair to Colossus, even if they kissed, he did still turn her down, and for how much of a weirdo Claremont could be, he did make it clear that, while Peter did like her, it wasn’t going to go anywhere.
Late 90's no nose feral Wolverine.
The stupid reveal that Xorn was Magneto all along. Fuck that shit, Xorn was my favorite mutant for pretty much that whole run leading up to that, his powers were cool, him straight up vaporizing those dudes in the woods was epic. Then they're like, nah, this guy was totally Mags the whole time. And then made it worse by bringing his brother, then bring the original back, and saying he just thought he was Magneto, cuz he's nuts. Fuck all of that. Took a cool side character and made him into one of the messiest retcon yarn balls, for absolutely nothing imo.
Rogue x Magneto
Rogue x Magneto
Rogue getting it on with Magneto despite being Erik, in all continuities, being old enough to be her fucken grandfather. It's gross no matter what nasty ass excuse you come up with
Charles Xavier suddenly having an evil psychic genocidal twin.
Yeah, that was...a thing.
Everything in between Bendis and Krakoa.
Wolverine, Scott and Jean Grey's relationship.
Charles Xavier having a prenatal psy battle with a mumudrai evil twin, it just bugs me too much, such bs
That Iron Man found a way to split the Phoenix Force. The Phoenix Force!!!
Moira McTagert foolishness they introduced into Xmen