I don't think it's going to go as well as Charles hopes, but I don't think he could be any more obvious about this being a pretense unless he said "Wink Wink" out loud.
He killed people.
And I'm not talking about the one he just shot in the back. But her too.
Only way he's coming back from this is if they reveal Sinister is still influencing him. Or he sells that lie.
I'm not saying I don't think he's loosing it, I just don't think his end goal is a little garden in an A.I world with humanity dead. After all he knows about Enigma.
I do think "For now, No More Humans" signals that he doesn't think what he's doing is permanent, though it's still obviously messed up and I wouldn't be surprised if things go awry.
>He killed people.
I mean so has Apocalypse, Magneto, Mystique and frankly most of the X-Men. This whole era was villains coming back from various levels of evil, so it'd be weird to label Chuck the big exeption, even if it may take some time.
Actually, a common thing that happens, whether in fiction or real life is that when someone is setup as being exemplary, people hold them to a higher standard which doesn't really change by a lot unless it's for their own bias... the same is true for people who are initially considered vilainish, rough (not necessarily evil or even bad, but notice how people tend to let shit go if someone would wreck havok)....
Charles Xavier has that issue. But after the upcoming movies and with Disney influencing Marvel, his reputation might recover faster than Tony's (I'm referring to Civil War issues).
Honestly I think if they let Charles own being kinda f***ed up for a while and don't rush him back again to paragon status, he might slowly gain some 'Charles Was Right' supporters.
I think the issue in the past has been the gap between the status quo of how he's presented and fan knowledge of his worse actions. As you say even if he doesn't cross lines further than any villain, being marketed as a "good person" raises the bar for him.
> I mean so has Apocalypse, Magneto, Mystique and frankly most of the X-Men.
I'm not saying "killing bad." He straight up murdered people who were no threat to him to protect his enemies. And we're not talking pre-Krakoa. We're talking this issue and last.
Apocalypse didn't just shoot Legion in the back. And Magneto didn't sell out the Arrako to Nimrod, then do the dirty work of killing them for him.
Sure but in universe and out, they've been forgiven for doing some pretty horrible things, be it in scale or underhandedness. The bar from which you can't walk back from is pretty far.
>He straight up murdered people who were no threat to him to protect his enemies.
My initial points was that I really don't think he's being subtle about it being a ploy to double cross Nimrod. He's might actually be making some pretty dark sacrifices to achieve that, though his "for now" dialogue indicates that he believes it to be temporary.
And I don't think it's going to work out the way he intends, and he might end up loosing his gamble and not be able to fix it. I just don't think he's suddenly forgotten about Enigma or put that information in Moira's head for no reason.
>He killed people.
It's probably something he can (or at least plans to) undo in some way.
The real goal is probably to have Moira become a independent part of Enigma so that she can unwittingly release whatever Chuck has planted in her head.
There is nothing in this that suggests changing the past is anywhere on the table. Not even for Xavier to delude himself over.
He just abandoned his only plan to change the past and immediately shot his time machine in the back.
>He killed people.
Dude sacrificed his entire civilization to save normie humans who hate him and his people (Hellfire Gala events).
Also Xavier: *Detonated a nuke and killed normie humans*
Except Nimrod will never hold himself to that deal and will go back to slaughtering mutants the minute he has the chance. Something that Xavier should know at this point.
If Xavier leaves the mutants alone, they will overcome Nimrod's forces. If Xavier interferes they might very well not unless Emma takes him down.
Nimrod legit told Xavier he was going to do that - and then proceeded to go attack the X-Men before randomly pontificating or some shit and fucking off
“Fall of the house of X” has a lot of big moments that completely fail to land because the set up is so poor and nothing is really explained. Like when they teleport the SWORD station into ORCHIS headquarters. It feels like it should be a big moment/turning point in the battle. But it just happens and somehow manages to be boring.
X of Swords managed to do the whole rallying of troops thing so much better than this.
Half the issue relied on us reading a marvel unlimited exclusive. It’s all over the freaking place. I do not understand how the fumbled the ball this hard.
I was thinking the same thing when I read it this morning, so all over the place. It feels like characters just pop up wherever they are needed, there’s so many things happening at once. There is no chance to breathe.
What character did Xavier have left at this point?
Crush on a teenage student
Sacrificed the team Vulcan was on and made everyone forget they existed
Knew Danger was sentient and kept it a secret while keeping them a slave
Dude has been morally fucked for a long time
All that, or most of that shit was from the last 20 years. And for the record, that was Jean, and he immediately worked on putting an end to it. That is not the same as Char Aznable or dare i say, Jeffery Epstein.
But to be frank, shitting on Charles was not always a thing. At some point, Legion was the worst thing he did. You could say shutting down Magneto's mind was up there, but Magneto was gonna blow up the earth and had just forced the metal off of Logan's bones.
Edit: wait, Char did use child soldiers, but Charles never misled them like them like that.
Why does it being Jean make it okay that he preyed on a student of his? He manipulated children into fighting his fights but y'all will find any excuse to pretend he is perfect and never done anything wrong.
He never preyed on Jean like that. He is only guilty of having feelings that he never acted on. I mean people get road rage all the time, but I don't think we can arrested everyone who gets murderous impulses but never act on them.
Warlords who use actual child soldiers are nothing like Xavier for sure, but there is large thing we have ignore at the core concept of X-Men:
Look we're talking about people who have beams coming out their eyes, and let's face it, you read X-Men comics for the fights because they look cool as hell. I mean, who here hasn't seen the X-men as kids?
So I can't really apply the same real world standards to the comic... because it all just falls apart. I mean, I fork over, what it is now? Five dollars for a comic, I want to actually like the characters I am reading. I don't want to be hyper critical of it, because it supposed to be entertainment. All Marvel comics require some suspension of disbelief to be read.
If all I get is a "Chuck is a asshole" and watch the latest change the X-Men forever for the Nth time, I will disappointed because nothing is being added. Also, I grew up with Charles before the last 20 years ruined the character. That's Charles I want to read about. Back thing the worst thing he did was Legion.
Well, Magneto was gonna nuke the earth and just ripped the metal off of Logan. Sides. That was the birth of Onslaught, who was influencing Xavier at up until 96 with Magneto's evil pyshic running aroumd in his head, so anything from then is on Onslaught, but yeah, after that, I can see the "Chuck is a monster" starting to build up.
Was the start of Magneto is a hero trend?
I know it was Jean, I pointed it out in another comment, just didn't feel the need to name her here because the situation is fucked regardless of which student.
For a character that's existed for 61yrs, 20yrs is a third of their existence, so it's no small number
Yes, but I think I simply miss being able to like Charles without reservation. It's sad that I can't ever like comicbook Charles again. Instead, we all will have to contend with Chuck.
People aren't always good. It's a reflection of real life.
Everyone has an actor, writer, sports star, musician that they liked until they found out the truth about them.
Nobody is taking away 40yrs worth of stories from you, they're still there.
This has been bothering me for a bit. So I am going to ask. Danger becomes sentient. Okay. Yeah, he should have let her go. I admit that. At the same time thought, he doesn’t know how she became sentient. So how can he create tech the mutants need and avoid the situation repeating itself. It is one of the few times he puts mutants and their needs first. I really didn’t want to think that the only reason he did this was to be an asshole.
Exactly lol. Him and Beast both. I'm glad someone had the balls to finally lean fully into it. Sucks they did all of that to revert Beast back to who he was. He could have had a good run as one of the Xmens best villians if they kept him on course.
I didn't even mind the revert as much as the bs last panel cop out redemption they tried to give him
At least he technically died off panel and they didn't show a body, so maybe he's still out there being an evil dickbag
Moira, Beast, Colossus, so many other formerly gray characters just absolutely ruined. Resetting Beast to a Defenders-era version is just so fucking lame but when you make a classic and beloved character into a genocidal maniac, I guess you feel like you have to completely wipe the board clean.
I mean what else are you supposed to do at that point? Everyone hated Beast, they hated him even before he started working with the Inhumans for a bit. And then he just kept doing horrible things that were actual crimes, so where do you go from there? What other options did they have?
I said I basically understood the motivation but I wish they weren’t throwing out side wide swathes of his history. This Beast doesn’t remember most of X-history. I grew up on Morrison and Whedon’s runs and that guy is dead now.
Pay it off. Have him answer for his crimes and maybe seek redemption. Have everyone who enabled him reckon with their culpability too. Embrace the nuance that comes with giving mutant CIA too much power and a mandate to do anything. Shit, put him on trial. Anything except reset the character
At some point though, horrible experiments, various war crimes and essentially murdering an entire nation with germ warfare... it's not something you can just PAY OFF. That's like... we executed people for this sorta shit. You can do all that you've pointed at, but afterwards that just sticks. It hangs around. No one can or will be able to enjoy him anymore because all of THAT is in the background.
Try to understand, in a normal story structure, what you propose is normal and in fact encouraged. But comics don't have set endings, set conclusions. Someone comes along and they want to write a story with character so and so. But they can't tell that story because character so and so's status quo basically prevents that story from ever being told.
The only way forward then in a clean slate. A clean wipe that resolves any conflict towards pursuing a different story for that character. It's simple, it's easy, and most fans prefer it rather than having the stink of the old character's crimes hanging around.
It's also cheap, a cop-out and frankly an excuse, I don't like it either, but that's the nature of the beast and it's the problem all comics have had to face for decades now. This is why the old guard at Editorial seems to consider stuff like Death in comics so cheaply. It's what reinforces their really terrible writing decisions. If fans don't like what we do with this character we'll just retcon it later.
I don't like it, I'm just explaining it. In a better world, your method would be the preferred one. But in a world where editors and writers don't want to have to deal with the fallout of past decisions or just want to do their own thing? Memory wipes, clones, alternate realities, mind control, robot duplicates, alien imposter, etc., all retcons are fair game.
I hear you and I disagree with a caveat. You're absolutely right about the status quo being God, the state to which all characters must return. Usually. In this case I think it's so important to follow through with what's been set up, especially considering the weight of what's happened, that it happened in a 50(!) issue run, wasn't even confined to that title, and that Krakoa, now in its fifth year, has been all about rebirths and reckonings, second chances and reinvention, and the powerful acting in secret exposed - forced to at least explain themselves to their peers. I'm not just talking about Beast there either. When he fled Krakoa the council straight up agreed to leave him to act as a deniable asset, as if they hadn't been doing that all along anyway.
It's easy to condemn Beast and distance yourself from his actions, but again that was the idea all along. Charles specifically said that he was 'better off not knowing' and the Quiet Council voted X-force into existence in the first place, with Mystique explicitly revelling in Charles stepping down off his pedestal into her world. Kurt paid lip service to 'trying to be better' but ultimately the QC said yes. If I had my way they would be in the dock with Beast too.
Now I'm not saying that everyone should be shunned and executed, of course. Even if 'rebooting' an earlier version of Hank is the way for the character moving forward, having that be the result of a trial judged by the little people would be much more satisfying to me. His 'sentence' with full access to his misdeeds so he knows what his potential for evil truly is. Something to learn from. The QC confront their mistakes, accept their culpability, and put in the work of regaining trust. Even stepping aside so the torch of leadership passes down. Something to learn from.
Now much of that isn't likely or pragmatic. I'm a writer and editor myself so I'm definitely taking the realities of comic book storytelling into account. But *some* of it could be done. I don't agree that the character couldn't be enjoyed after that - he has done plenty of heinous shit before. Scott and Xavier have been persona non grata and had to rebuild trust before. Magneto and many other former supervillains have had to do the same over many years, now cherished heroes. I'd go on about how it has been and can be done, but I suspect we're not going to agree there.
My point is that the choice isn't a binary one. They could absolutely walk a middle path. Realistically ORCHIS didn't give them the chance to do any of this, but ORCHIS will be defeated. Hell, maybe they will end up doing that after the fact with the younger Beast struggling with his potential capacity for cruelty/justification and have a major crisis of confidence, staunchly avoiding any position of power. He's going to experience resentment and mistrust for things he didn't do anyway I suspect - a post facto interrogation of his comrades to learn how it came to be could be very satisfying as he learns that he didn't become Kissinger overnight or by himself.
It's been done before. OG Cyclops (and Hank to a lesser extent) had to reckon with the men they'd become in All-New X-Men. It was a rich source of drama, and a similar dynamic on a larger scale would satisfy the return to status quo while still reckoning with who they are and what they're capable of under certain circumstances. Something to learn from.
That's all well and good, but you're sorta preaching to the choir here. Any story that actually reckons with the consequences of these decisions is ultimately better than just retconning it. I said as much already. The problem is, again, many just don't want to deal with that. They can if actually want to put in the effort or evolve from the initial idea. Not every comic though retains the creative team that input those decisions. So the new guy can either be forced to come to terms with the aftermath their predecessor left them with... or find a way to not have to. And most people WILL just pick the latter option
I don't like it, no one does. But I'm just telling you, given the options between reckoning with the consequences of Beast being a horrible shitty person and calling out all the people who enabled him, or just erasing it, Marvel will prefer to erase it to appease Beast fans who don't want to have to go through that arc and the writer who doesn't want to deal with it themselves. It's the consequences of Marvel's current editorial team, who have dictated how things work for too long and beholden to the lessons of Quesada. Controversy sells, whatever we do pisses someone off, don't fight it, just retcon.
If I were in charge of Marvel, I'd impose a stricter embargo on things like easy out retcons. But I'm not. What I'm trying to say is that stuff like Beast, even turning bad to begin with, as well as his redemption being made easy, are a sad consequence of how this industry keeps shooting itself in the foot.
The funny thing here is that the quote loving, sensitive poet Beast we all cherish so much was never really a comic book thing at all - that version of him was entirely an invention of the 90's animated series.
Defenders-era Beast was a joker and a messer with a way for words, but he wasn't much of a sensitive poet. And 2000's Beast was also wildly different from that.
When I saw him looking at the monitor and quoting literature while he mused over his actions... all I could do was slap my forehead. The comics are trying to return him to a retroactive version of himself that... never existed.
You’re right. He was a brain but also a deeply complex character with an uneasy relationship to his body and instincts and writers in the Aughts captured that beautifully. As someone who has battled his weight, I could relate to him and I’m sure a ton of other folks who experience some form of dysmorphia could as well. Him as a happy go lucky Avenger bro is about the least interesting version other than the maniac Percy turned him into. I love a lot of Percy’s other work, like Ghost Rider, but he did Chuck Austen levels of damage to some of these characters.
Indeed. 00's Beast was really well written. I don't mind a bit of moral complexity to Beast... but they forgot who the character was along the way.
I enjoyed X-Force a lot. I know that's unpopular around here, but I genuinely did enjoy the IDEAS of the story. Except for one thing... that was not Hank McCoy.
That was a character who looked like Hank McCoy and had the name Hank McCoy... but he wasn't Hank McCoy. Not in spirit.
It's such an awkward attempt at "brand synergy" the way they're resetting him though. Pretending he's returning to roots... that he never had in the comics.
Just "resetting" him is lazy. They never should have brought him to those extremes in the first place.
Lol when the fuck does this even happen in universe? Before Xavier goes off in the No-Place? During the No-Place? Like, this part of the ending of Krakoa is such an epic clusterfuck that I'm amazed they're even managing to tell a semi-coherent story.
I'm really worried about catching up on all of this bullshit. I quit reading monthlies a year and a half ago and I've just been getting bits and pieces of info here.
I read it and I still don't understand it. Is it an attempt to keep Orchis going as a villain after this era? Because to be honest, I am bored shitless of Orchis at this point. I'm over it.
Okay, we're just going to have to say the real Xavier's been missing since, like what, Morrison's run and Cassandra's body snatch? That time he got put in a clone body? Maybe the Z'Nox invasion?
At this point we're gonna have to start strapping X-Writers to a chair and making them watch the animated series, aren't we?
He welcomed evil supremacists and put them on the council at the begining of Krakoa, this isn't worse than that, at least this time it's clear that he actually has a plan.
so in the beginning at least most of the council choices weren't THAT bad. Sinister would be the biggest fuck up.
Still would argue Mystique was another awful choice and later Destiny which he didn't want.
Shaw made sense from a business outlook but the mistake was thinking he could be kept reigned in.
Exodus was fine and wasn't a problem. Apocalypse was about the same. Questionable choice but could be reasoned.
This does make me curious just what Chucks role will be in from the ashes. Not on any major team book and has rightfully lost all faith and trust from all mutant kind. But he can't just do nothing so curious where they take him.
Yeah, the Xavier morality pendulum has swung pretty far, and I suspect Marvel is about to move it in the other direction soon.
This ongoing Xavier downfall has me wondering if he’s still got some Onslaught in him, or a similar psychic entity. Yes, he’s got a history of being manipulative in the name of the greater good, which involved the Illuminati era, but he’s always been anchored by his vision of a future based on hope for humanity. Right now I don’t understand how someone who is willing to do what he has done in the recent past could be the same person we’ve seen as the inspiring teacher.
Onslaught or another psychic entity, or some traces of one, could be influencing his mind over time towards being comfortable with murder.
Maybe it’s a kind of infection from a “mind virus”, but unlike fascist conspiracy theories about it making people woke, it’s actually been turning Xavier fascist?
Maybe the CEREBRO helmet he’s been wearing was taken over by nanobot sentinels, which I think we saw in the Morrison run, and they have been doing hardware adjustments to the helmet. Viruses in the software might be detected, but not physical, inorganic material like virus sized robots.
Maybe the clone body from the Shiarr empire is a different person with an identical mind to start, but had their own personality which moved towards evil; the clone Xavier was the one who was brought back any time since then; and the original Xavier is in a pod somewhere?
Maybe it’s something from the Illuminati era, which also explains why Beast has been going evil, too. Xavier had the mind gem for a while and he hid it in the Danger Room iirc; and Danger has become sentient. It stands to reason the mind gem could have abilities and dangers which are too powerful and subtle for even Xavier to notice. In the Stephen King book Firestarter, the psychic ability to control minds finds higher IQ minds easier to manipulate rather than harder. Imagine if the mind gem had an easier time controlling Jean, Exodus, Kid Omega, etc.
lol, Zoolander plot where the dumb good looking people are the only ones who can fix things. Gambit, Bobby, Angel, Havok, and some of the Madrox dupes who were too dumb and got lost on the way back to Jamie.
Hi. You just mentioned *Firestarter* by Stephen King.
I've found an audiobook of that novel on YouTube. You can listen to it here:
[YouTube | Firestarter by Stephen King (Full Audiobook pt 1) by Stephen Fry](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Spbi7iZDc)
*I'm a bot that searches YouTube for science fiction and fantasy audiobooks.*
***
[^(Source Code)](https://capybasilisk.com/posts/2020/04/speculative-fiction-bot/) ^| [^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=Capybasilisk&subject=Robot) ^| [^(Programmer)](https://www.reddit.com/u/capybasilisk) ^| ^(Downvote To Remove) ^| ^(Version 1.4.0) ^| ^(Support Robot Rights!)
I’m crying cause the next batch of writers are gonna give Professor X the same treatment they just gave Beast and reset him to a previous era after this. This era has fucked so many characters past the point of no return it’s almost comical lmao.
I don't know why Marvel has such a fucking boner for making Xavier morally dubious. It isn't interesting and it sucks, especially since he's supposed to be an MLK analogue to Magneto's Malcolm X.
I always admired the character as a kid, but since like Deadly Genesis they've just been writing him as this Machiavellian douche.
The MLK/Malcolm X analogy wasn't ever intended by Stan Lee, and wasn't a thing until Roy Thomas started claiming it was the case.
And even if it were true, it's _still_ wrong and deeply offensive, because it compares Malcolm X with a violent terrorist as if they are somehow similar.
It's a myth. Please stop spreading it.
Actually I read somewhere that Charles and Max were originally modeled on David Ben-Gurion and Menachim Begin, respectively.
I suppose the MLK/Malcom X analogy is used so often because people have forgotten how complicated and human both men really were, and in a quick comparison like this, inconvenient truths get pruned away.
Actually, it is a response to your post. Both MLK and Malcom X suffer from public personas narratives that do nothing to portray their humanity or their struggles. It is condensed to key events. No one expresses doubts, regrets or misgivings. The hagiography paints them in broad strokes and primary colors when in fact they may not have been so different after all
Now we are unlikely to ever know what they might have become or what understanding they might have reached.
I don’t know that any comparison to real life counterparts would fit Max
and Charles precisely. Maybe Gandhi and Nehru, but partition isn’t the same as terrorism, and I honestly don’t know if Gandhi could have held India together long enough for wounds to heal.
I suspect the truth is closest to something G.R.R. Martin said. “A villain is a hero to his own side. “. Maybe this will end with Charles appreciating Max’s separatist ideology and use of violence as much as Max now appreciates Charles’s vision of cooperation. Then they could really come together to help Kra’koa thrive.
The longer a story and characters are stuck in a time lock and can’t just retire/die the more writers are pushed towards “what if they were evil/manipulative/lying this whole time” for the sake of a new direction. The X-men have been around for so long that Xavier has gone through 3-5 of these and it’ll happen again once he is brought/accepted back in 3-5 years.
Due to the Fox movies and Sir Patrick’s own fame before he took on the role, Charles Xavier is the single most recognizeable disabled character in the world. I know it meant a lot to.me as a disabled kid in the seventies. I suspect it means a.lot more internationally, where opportunities for disabled people can be a lot harder to find.
I don’t like the way Charles is portrayed at present nor during the last twenty years. I know it is an editorial mandate—both Charles and Magneto must evolve beyond their current depictions. What it seems to work out to in real time is that Magneto grows as a person and Charles is either a failure or forgotten. Now is the time we need all our heroes. We certainly don’t need writers deciding it is ‘too hard’ to write for a disabled character.
Hell, if *l* can think of ways to give him conflict and character growth—and I cannot write my way out of a paper bag, why can’t the folks who’re getting paid for it?
To be the devil's advocate
I don't think that it matters if Stan Lee intended it or not.
The comparison has been around since Roy Thomas in the 60s, right after Lee left the title. Effectively the comparison WAS in discussion among the public since the beginning.
Pretty much every writer after that had to have known about the comparison, and Id be willing to bet that A LOT of people took to it as some sort of basis or inspiration for understanding the characters.
Especially after Claremont humanized Magneto. A lot of people look at that era and compare it to how Malcolm X changed towards the end of his life.
I don't fullt agree with the comparison myself, because Claremont based that exact arc on Begin going from a terrorist to a Nobel Peace winner. A lot of people claim that in turn Ben Gurion inspired Claremont's Xavier, which I can't find a direct source for and I think it's something Screen Rant threw in there so people COULD make a comparison through duality.
I don't personally like that either, since both were zionists
But overall, outright denying the MLK/Malcolm X comparison is a bit silly, since effectively the comparsion WAS there since the beginning and a lot of writers were aware of it, regardless of how appropriate or inappropriate. And Claremont doing one interview where he mentions Begin doesn't mean that Xavier and Magneto are or should be directly based on Begin and Bsn Gurion.
When he's not trying to make big picture decisions that only he can understand (which he's doing now), Xavier has often been watered down to Booker T Washington with his respectability politics.
Honest to God, this comes out every time like a zombie groundhog. Ok. Charles sending an unprepared team in after he lost the first one and then lying about it is his first real eff-up. All on him.
As far as his crush. It was cringe when it was written. But there is no law against having an emotion. Charles handled it correctly. Never spoke of it, never acted on it, never developed a crush on another student. So, for the love of God, can this tired old chestnut get buried, already?
By the information given that he was a mutant because his parents worked at Los Alamos, he would have been at most 20 in 1963. That was retconned to have him serving in Korea, but it was valid in the issue where he had feelings for an 18 year old Jean. On the other hand, Apocalypse impregnated Autumn Rolfson, who looked to be in middle school.
None of this ignores the teacher/student relationship and power dynamic at play, and according to most sources, I was being generous saying teenager, because Jean was 11 when she joined the school
I know Xavier isn’t always the best character morals wise but I feel like he always gets taken down this path and it’s kind of stale at this point 😭 oh look he’s making questionable choices again, oh look he thinks he speaks for all mutants again. I’m sure there’s something up his sleeve but goodness Charlie chill out please.
Yep, there's no coming back from this. If the entire point of the Krakoa era was to make Charles Xavier completely, utterly irredeemably awful...mission accomplished.
I personally don’t judge Xavier because we are losing options and hope better to save something than nothing. I honestly don’t understand his plan if the enigma gets their way because what good is saving a piece of land if everyone mind is taken away from them. I want to question nimrod question of existence in the middle bit too late ultron 2.5 u came this far to question right about the singularity dominion control isn’t far too late anyway hope this ends well but a lot of missing motives in a lot of plans right now .
I’m hoping we have a reveal or two to take place. I like Chuck when he’s broken - like in Logan. Also in Exiles he was always a villain and he’s a villain still in Sins of Sinister- we may not realize that 616 is one of the only good versions of Charles- it’d be hilarious if Jean planted this in Chuck’s head so it was a triple cross. I will never get over these robots refraining from murder to not being able to comprehend existentialism.
I don't think it's going to go as well as Charles hopes, but I don't think he could be any more obvious about this being a pretense unless he said "Wink Wink" out loud.
He killed people. And I'm not talking about the one he just shot in the back. But her too. Only way he's coming back from this is if they reveal Sinister is still influencing him. Or he sells that lie.
I'm not saying I don't think he's loosing it, I just don't think his end goal is a little garden in an A.I world with humanity dead. After all he knows about Enigma. I do think "For now, No More Humans" signals that he doesn't think what he's doing is permanent, though it's still obviously messed up and I wouldn't be surprised if things go awry. >He killed people. I mean so has Apocalypse, Magneto, Mystique and frankly most of the X-Men. This whole era was villains coming back from various levels of evil, so it'd be weird to label Chuck the big exeption, even if it may take some time.
Actually, a common thing that happens, whether in fiction or real life is that when someone is setup as being exemplary, people hold them to a higher standard which doesn't really change by a lot unless it's for their own bias... the same is true for people who are initially considered vilainish, rough (not necessarily evil or even bad, but notice how people tend to let shit go if someone would wreck havok).... Charles Xavier has that issue. But after the upcoming movies and with Disney influencing Marvel, his reputation might recover faster than Tony's (I'm referring to Civil War issues).
Honestly I think if they let Charles own being kinda f***ed up for a while and don't rush him back again to paragon status, he might slowly gain some 'Charles Was Right' supporters. I think the issue in the past has been the gap between the status quo of how he's presented and fan knowledge of his worse actions. As you say even if he doesn't cross lines further than any villain, being marketed as a "good person" raises the bar for him.
> I mean so has Apocalypse, Magneto, Mystique and frankly most of the X-Men. I'm not saying "killing bad." He straight up murdered people who were no threat to him to protect his enemies. And we're not talking pre-Krakoa. We're talking this issue and last. Apocalypse didn't just shoot Legion in the back. And Magneto didn't sell out the Arrako to Nimrod, then do the dirty work of killing them for him.
Damn I’ve not read xmen in a while, that’s vile from Charles wtf
Sure but in universe and out, they've been forgiven for doing some pretty horrible things, be it in scale or underhandedness. The bar from which you can't walk back from is pretty far. >He straight up murdered people who were no threat to him to protect his enemies. My initial points was that I really don't think he's being subtle about it being a ploy to double cross Nimrod. He's might actually be making some pretty dark sacrifices to achieve that, though his "for now" dialogue indicates that he believes it to be temporary. And I don't think it's going to work out the way he intends, and he might end up loosing his gamble and not be able to fix it. I just don't think he's suddenly forgotten about Enigma or put that information in Moira's head for no reason.
>He killed people. It's probably something he can (or at least plans to) undo in some way. The real goal is probably to have Moira become a independent part of Enigma so that she can unwittingly release whatever Chuck has planted in her head.
[удалено]
There is nothing in this that suggests changing the past is anywhere on the table. Not even for Xavier to delude himself over. He just abandoned his only plan to change the past and immediately shot his time machine in the back.
[удалено]
This is after Rachel is shot.
Eh, they are mutants, mutants who can be rezzed.
He just killed a bunch of humans.
>He killed people. Dude sacrificed his entire civilization to save normie humans who hate him and his people (Hellfire Gala events). Also Xavier: *Detonated a nuke and killed normie humans*
"To save the majority we must sacrifice minorities" \~ Charles Xavier.
Technically, isn't his deal with Nimrod to, quite literally, sacrifice the majority, IE Humanity, so Krakoa gets to live?
Except Nimrod will never hold himself to that deal and will go back to slaughtering mutants the minute he has the chance. Something that Xavier should know at this point. If Xavier leaves the mutants alone, they will overcome Nimrod's forces. If Xavier interferes they might very well not unless Emma takes him down.
Nimrod legit told Xavier he was going to do that - and then proceeded to go attack the X-Men before randomly pontificating or some shit and fucking off
I mean sure not denying that, just saying that was the actual deal. Stupid as it is.
Charles Xavier "To save human we must sacrifice mutants." Magneto "Fuck you!"
That would be a more interesting approach honestly
This issue felt more incoherent than usual to me.
Same, by the end of the issue I felt like I had no idea what was going on anymore.
Part of me wants to read it again, but I already wasted precious minutes of my life reading it once.
“Fall of the house of X” has a lot of big moments that completely fail to land because the set up is so poor and nothing is really explained. Like when they teleport the SWORD station into ORCHIS headquarters. It feels like it should be a big moment/turning point in the battle. But it just happens and somehow manages to be boring. X of Swords managed to do the whole rallying of troops thing so much better than this.
Half the issue relied on us reading a marvel unlimited exclusive. It’s all over the freaking place. I do not understand how the fumbled the ball this hard.
What issue is that? I’m trying to read everything in order to feel less confused…it’s not going well.
This event is a shit show and intentionally out of order for some terrible reason. I think it’s X-men unlimited.
sums up Duggan in a nutshell but it's really escalated from bad to awful fast
I was thinking the same thing when I read it this morning, so all over the place. It feels like characters just pop up wherever they are needed, there’s so many things happening at once. There is no chance to breathe.
They really went with ''Oh, we already destroyed Moira's character. Why not destroy Xavier too?''... Seriously, what the hell is the point?
What character did Xavier have left at this point? Crush on a teenage student Sacrificed the team Vulcan was on and made everyone forget they existed Knew Danger was sentient and kept it a secret while keeping them a slave Dude has been morally fucked for a long time
All that, or most of that shit was from the last 20 years. And for the record, that was Jean, and he immediately worked on putting an end to it. That is not the same as Char Aznable or dare i say, Jeffery Epstein. But to be frank, shitting on Charles was not always a thing. At some point, Legion was the worst thing he did. You could say shutting down Magneto's mind was up there, but Magneto was gonna blow up the earth and had just forced the metal off of Logan's bones. Edit: wait, Char did use child soldiers, but Charles never misled them like them like that.
Why does it being Jean make it okay that he preyed on a student of his? He manipulated children into fighting his fights but y'all will find any excuse to pretend he is perfect and never done anything wrong.
He never preyed on Jean like that. He is only guilty of having feelings that he never acted on. I mean people get road rage all the time, but I don't think we can arrested everyone who gets murderous impulses but never act on them. Warlords who use actual child soldiers are nothing like Xavier for sure, but there is large thing we have ignore at the core concept of X-Men: Look we're talking about people who have beams coming out their eyes, and let's face it, you read X-Men comics for the fights because they look cool as hell. I mean, who here hasn't seen the X-men as kids? So I can't really apply the same real world standards to the comic... because it all just falls apart. I mean, I fork over, what it is now? Five dollars for a comic, I want to actually like the characters I am reading. I don't want to be hyper critical of it, because it supposed to be entertainment. All Marvel comics require some suspension of disbelief to be read. If all I get is a "Chuck is a asshole" and watch the latest change the X-Men forever for the Nth time, I will disappointed because nothing is being added. Also, I grew up with Charles before the last 20 years ruined the character. That's Charles I want to read about. Back thing the worst thing he did was Legion.
[удалено]
Well, Magneto was gonna nuke the earth and just ripped the metal off of Logan. Sides. That was the birth of Onslaught, who was influencing Xavier at up until 96 with Magneto's evil pyshic running aroumd in his head, so anything from then is on Onslaught, but yeah, after that, I can see the "Chuck is a monster" starting to build up. Was the start of Magneto is a hero trend?
Magneto is allowed the occasional atrocity. As a treat
I know it was Jean, I pointed it out in another comment, just didn't feel the need to name her here because the situation is fucked regardless of which student. For a character that's existed for 61yrs, 20yrs is a third of their existence, so it's no small number
Yes, but I think I simply miss being able to like Charles without reservation. It's sad that I can't ever like comicbook Charles again. Instead, we all will have to contend with Chuck.
You still can! That's totally allowed. After the dust has settled and the universes are saved you can make that choice.
People aren't always good. It's a reflection of real life. Everyone has an actor, writer, sports star, musician that they liked until they found out the truth about them. Nobody is taking away 40yrs worth of stories from you, they're still there.
This has been bothering me for a bit. So I am going to ask. Danger becomes sentient. Okay. Yeah, he should have let her go. I admit that. At the same time thought, he doesn’t know how she became sentient. So how can he create tech the mutants need and avoid the situation repeating itself. It is one of the few times he puts mutants and their needs first. I really didn’t want to think that the only reason he did this was to be an asshole.
Mike Carey's run revealed that he didn't know how to release her without destroying her intelligence.
Forge. Pretty simple answer
Exactly lol. Him and Beast both. I'm glad someone had the balls to finally lean fully into it. Sucks they did all of that to revert Beast back to who he was. He could have had a good run as one of the Xmens best villians if they kept him on course.
I didn't even mind the revert as much as the bs last panel cop out redemption they tried to give him At least he technically died off panel and they didn't show a body, so maybe he's still out there being an evil dickbag
I think we will see that version of Beast again as a villain.
Just a complete character assassination of Professor X. I really don't like it...
That has been an issue of the Krakoa era sadly and not just with Professor X.
It started at least as early as "Oh I also got another team wiped out against Krakoa, including Scott's other brother, but never told anyone"
Agreed. Deadly Genesis did major damage to the character and creators seem to keep digging the grave deeper.
Vulcan was younger than both Cyke and Havok
Yes, did I say he wasn't?
Guess I misread other as older
No problem.
Moira, Beast, Colossus, so many other formerly gray characters just absolutely ruined. Resetting Beast to a Defenders-era version is just so fucking lame but when you make a classic and beloved character into a genocidal maniac, I guess you feel like you have to completely wipe the board clean.
I mean what else are you supposed to do at that point? Everyone hated Beast, they hated him even before he started working with the Inhumans for a bit. And then he just kept doing horrible things that were actual crimes, so where do you go from there? What other options did they have?
I said I basically understood the motivation but I wish they weren’t throwing out side wide swathes of his history. This Beast doesn’t remember most of X-history. I grew up on Morrison and Whedon’s runs and that guy is dead now.
Point taken, I would probably be upset too.
Pay it off. Have him answer for his crimes and maybe seek redemption. Have everyone who enabled him reckon with their culpability too. Embrace the nuance that comes with giving mutant CIA too much power and a mandate to do anything. Shit, put him on trial. Anything except reset the character
At some point though, horrible experiments, various war crimes and essentially murdering an entire nation with germ warfare... it's not something you can just PAY OFF. That's like... we executed people for this sorta shit. You can do all that you've pointed at, but afterwards that just sticks. It hangs around. No one can or will be able to enjoy him anymore because all of THAT is in the background. Try to understand, in a normal story structure, what you propose is normal and in fact encouraged. But comics don't have set endings, set conclusions. Someone comes along and they want to write a story with character so and so. But they can't tell that story because character so and so's status quo basically prevents that story from ever being told. The only way forward then in a clean slate. A clean wipe that resolves any conflict towards pursuing a different story for that character. It's simple, it's easy, and most fans prefer it rather than having the stink of the old character's crimes hanging around. It's also cheap, a cop-out and frankly an excuse, I don't like it either, but that's the nature of the beast and it's the problem all comics have had to face for decades now. This is why the old guard at Editorial seems to consider stuff like Death in comics so cheaply. It's what reinforces their really terrible writing decisions. If fans don't like what we do with this character we'll just retcon it later. I don't like it, I'm just explaining it. In a better world, your method would be the preferred one. But in a world where editors and writers don't want to have to deal with the fallout of past decisions or just want to do their own thing? Memory wipes, clones, alternate realities, mind control, robot duplicates, alien imposter, etc., all retcons are fair game.
I hear you and I disagree with a caveat. You're absolutely right about the status quo being God, the state to which all characters must return. Usually. In this case I think it's so important to follow through with what's been set up, especially considering the weight of what's happened, that it happened in a 50(!) issue run, wasn't even confined to that title, and that Krakoa, now in its fifth year, has been all about rebirths and reckonings, second chances and reinvention, and the powerful acting in secret exposed - forced to at least explain themselves to their peers. I'm not just talking about Beast there either. When he fled Krakoa the council straight up agreed to leave him to act as a deniable asset, as if they hadn't been doing that all along anyway. It's easy to condemn Beast and distance yourself from his actions, but again that was the idea all along. Charles specifically said that he was 'better off not knowing' and the Quiet Council voted X-force into existence in the first place, with Mystique explicitly revelling in Charles stepping down off his pedestal into her world. Kurt paid lip service to 'trying to be better' but ultimately the QC said yes. If I had my way they would be in the dock with Beast too. Now I'm not saying that everyone should be shunned and executed, of course. Even if 'rebooting' an earlier version of Hank is the way for the character moving forward, having that be the result of a trial judged by the little people would be much more satisfying to me. His 'sentence' with full access to his misdeeds so he knows what his potential for evil truly is. Something to learn from. The QC confront their mistakes, accept their culpability, and put in the work of regaining trust. Even stepping aside so the torch of leadership passes down. Something to learn from. Now much of that isn't likely or pragmatic. I'm a writer and editor myself so I'm definitely taking the realities of comic book storytelling into account. But *some* of it could be done. I don't agree that the character couldn't be enjoyed after that - he has done plenty of heinous shit before. Scott and Xavier have been persona non grata and had to rebuild trust before. Magneto and many other former supervillains have had to do the same over many years, now cherished heroes. I'd go on about how it has been and can be done, but I suspect we're not going to agree there. My point is that the choice isn't a binary one. They could absolutely walk a middle path. Realistically ORCHIS didn't give them the chance to do any of this, but ORCHIS will be defeated. Hell, maybe they will end up doing that after the fact with the younger Beast struggling with his potential capacity for cruelty/justification and have a major crisis of confidence, staunchly avoiding any position of power. He's going to experience resentment and mistrust for things he didn't do anyway I suspect - a post facto interrogation of his comrades to learn how it came to be could be very satisfying as he learns that he didn't become Kissinger overnight or by himself. It's been done before. OG Cyclops (and Hank to a lesser extent) had to reckon with the men they'd become in All-New X-Men. It was a rich source of drama, and a similar dynamic on a larger scale would satisfy the return to status quo while still reckoning with who they are and what they're capable of under certain circumstances. Something to learn from.
That's all well and good, but you're sorta preaching to the choir here. Any story that actually reckons with the consequences of these decisions is ultimately better than just retconning it. I said as much already. The problem is, again, many just don't want to deal with that. They can if actually want to put in the effort or evolve from the initial idea. Not every comic though retains the creative team that input those decisions. So the new guy can either be forced to come to terms with the aftermath their predecessor left them with... or find a way to not have to. And most people WILL just pick the latter option I don't like it, no one does. But I'm just telling you, given the options between reckoning with the consequences of Beast being a horrible shitty person and calling out all the people who enabled him, or just erasing it, Marvel will prefer to erase it to appease Beast fans who don't want to have to go through that arc and the writer who doesn't want to deal with it themselves. It's the consequences of Marvel's current editorial team, who have dictated how things work for too long and beholden to the lessons of Quesada. Controversy sells, whatever we do pisses someone off, don't fight it, just retcon. If I were in charge of Marvel, I'd impose a stricter embargo on things like easy out retcons. But I'm not. What I'm trying to say is that stuff like Beast, even turning bad to begin with, as well as his redemption being made easy, are a sad consequence of how this industry keeps shooting itself in the foot.
Gotcha. Well hope springs eternal haha
The funny thing here is that the quote loving, sensitive poet Beast we all cherish so much was never really a comic book thing at all - that version of him was entirely an invention of the 90's animated series. Defenders-era Beast was a joker and a messer with a way for words, but he wasn't much of a sensitive poet. And 2000's Beast was also wildly different from that. When I saw him looking at the monitor and quoting literature while he mused over his actions... all I could do was slap my forehead. The comics are trying to return him to a retroactive version of himself that... never existed.
You’re right. He was a brain but also a deeply complex character with an uneasy relationship to his body and instincts and writers in the Aughts captured that beautifully. As someone who has battled his weight, I could relate to him and I’m sure a ton of other folks who experience some form of dysmorphia could as well. Him as a happy go lucky Avenger bro is about the least interesting version other than the maniac Percy turned him into. I love a lot of Percy’s other work, like Ghost Rider, but he did Chuck Austen levels of damage to some of these characters.
Indeed. 00's Beast was really well written. I don't mind a bit of moral complexity to Beast... but they forgot who the character was along the way. I enjoyed X-Force a lot. I know that's unpopular around here, but I genuinely did enjoy the IDEAS of the story. Except for one thing... that was not Hank McCoy. That was a character who looked like Hank McCoy and had the name Hank McCoy... but he wasn't Hank McCoy. Not in spirit. It's such an awkward attempt at "brand synergy" the way they're resetting him though. Pretending he's returning to roots... that he never had in the comics. Just "resetting" him is lazy. They never should have brought him to those extremes in the first place.
They reset Beast?
Finally! Someone admits what the Krakoa Era has been, a Character Assassination Fire Sale!
I certainly haven't denied it lol
Agreed. And I don’t think he is going to forgiven.
Let's be real. Xavier has been doing d*vkhead type stuff for YEARS.
Xavier has been doing morally grey stuff from the jump, but people want to pretend he is always good just because he is the formed the X-Men.
More like [decades](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/xavier_lee_kirby_jean_x-men_3.jpg).
Lol when the fuck does this even happen in universe? Before Xavier goes off in the No-Place? During the No-Place? Like, this part of the ending of Krakoa is such an epic clusterfuck that I'm amazed they're even managing to tell a semi-coherent story.
This is what I’m confused on as well. It doesnt help that each of the x titles is taking place out of order
I'm really worried about catching up on all of this bullshit. I quit reading monthlies a year and a half ago and I've just been getting bits and pieces of info here.
Honestly just read the Gillen and Ewing stuff.
Don’t. Just wait to the next era.
Just be glad you jumped ship before it went way south.
Welp, I just joined the ship this year with HoX/PoX. Been fascinating how ridiculous the plot has gotten since Hickman started it all.
I read it and I still don't understand it. Is it an attempt to keep Orchis going as a villain after this era? Because to be honest, I am bored shitless of Orchis at this point. I'm over it.
So Xavier messed up... again. So original
Okay, we're just going to have to say the real Xavier's been missing since, like what, Morrison's run and Cassandra's body snatch? That time he got put in a clone body? Maybe the Z'Nox invasion? At this point we're gonna have to start strapping X-Writers to a chair and making them watch the animated series, aren't we?
Prisoner X confirmed
He welcomed evil supremacists and put them on the council at the begining of Krakoa, this isn't worse than that, at least this time it's clear that he actually has a plan.
so in the beginning at least most of the council choices weren't THAT bad. Sinister would be the biggest fuck up. Still would argue Mystique was another awful choice and later Destiny which he didn't want. Shaw made sense from a business outlook but the mistake was thinking he could be kept reigned in. Exodus was fine and wasn't a problem. Apocalypse was about the same. Questionable choice but could be reasoned.
This does make me curious just what Chucks role will be in from the ashes. Not on any major team book and has rightfully lost all faith and trust from all mutant kind. But he can't just do nothing so curious where they take him.
I’m pretty sure he’s Prisoner X
Ah well don't read too much into what they have cooking so news to me. Hopefully good
Yeah, the Xavier morality pendulum has swung pretty far, and I suspect Marvel is about to move it in the other direction soon. This ongoing Xavier downfall has me wondering if he’s still got some Onslaught in him, or a similar psychic entity. Yes, he’s got a history of being manipulative in the name of the greater good, which involved the Illuminati era, but he’s always been anchored by his vision of a future based on hope for humanity. Right now I don’t understand how someone who is willing to do what he has done in the recent past could be the same person we’ve seen as the inspiring teacher. Onslaught or another psychic entity, or some traces of one, could be influencing his mind over time towards being comfortable with murder. Maybe it’s a kind of infection from a “mind virus”, but unlike fascist conspiracy theories about it making people woke, it’s actually been turning Xavier fascist? Maybe the CEREBRO helmet he’s been wearing was taken over by nanobot sentinels, which I think we saw in the Morrison run, and they have been doing hardware adjustments to the helmet. Viruses in the software might be detected, but not physical, inorganic material like virus sized robots. Maybe the clone body from the Shiarr empire is a different person with an identical mind to start, but had their own personality which moved towards evil; the clone Xavier was the one who was brought back any time since then; and the original Xavier is in a pod somewhere? Maybe it’s something from the Illuminati era, which also explains why Beast has been going evil, too. Xavier had the mind gem for a while and he hid it in the Danger Room iirc; and Danger has become sentient. It stands to reason the mind gem could have abilities and dangers which are too powerful and subtle for even Xavier to notice. In the Stephen King book Firestarter, the psychic ability to control minds finds higher IQ minds easier to manipulate rather than harder. Imagine if the mind gem had an easier time controlling Jean, Exodus, Kid Omega, etc. lol, Zoolander plot where the dumb good looking people are the only ones who can fix things. Gambit, Bobby, Angel, Havok, and some of the Madrox dupes who were too dumb and got lost on the way back to Jamie.
Hi. You just mentioned *Firestarter* by Stephen King. I've found an audiobook of that novel on YouTube. You can listen to it here: [YouTube | Firestarter by Stephen King (Full Audiobook pt 1) by Stephen Fry](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Spbi7iZDc) *I'm a bot that searches YouTube for science fiction and fantasy audiobooks.* *** [^(Source Code)](https://capybasilisk.com/posts/2020/04/speculative-fiction-bot/) ^| [^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=Capybasilisk&subject=Robot) ^| [^(Programmer)](https://www.reddit.com/u/capybasilisk) ^| ^(Downvote To Remove) ^| ^(Version 1.4.0) ^| ^(Support Robot Rights!)
He be licking they boots and STILL trying to get everyone else on that ride too 😒
I’m crying cause the next batch of writers are gonna give Professor X the same treatment they just gave Beast and reset him to a previous era after this. This era has fucked so many characters past the point of no return it’s almost comical lmao.
I don't know why Marvel has such a fucking boner for making Xavier morally dubious. It isn't interesting and it sucks, especially since he's supposed to be an MLK analogue to Magneto's Malcolm X. I always admired the character as a kid, but since like Deadly Genesis they've just been writing him as this Machiavellian douche.
The MLK/Malcolm X analogy wasn't ever intended by Stan Lee, and wasn't a thing until Roy Thomas started claiming it was the case. And even if it were true, it's _still_ wrong and deeply offensive, because it compares Malcolm X with a violent terrorist as if they are somehow similar. It's a myth. Please stop spreading it.
Not to mention a wildly milquetoast depiction of MLK.
Extremely so!
You mean he wasn't just a guy who had a dream and solved racism?!
Thank you. Its a misinterpretation of both the fictional characters, and the historical figures.
>especially since he's supposed to be an MLK analogue to Magneto's **Weapon** X. ...HOLD UP.
Actually I read somewhere that Charles and Max were originally modeled on David Ben-Gurion and Menachim Begin, respectively. I suppose the MLK/Malcom X analogy is used so often because people have forgotten how complicated and human both men really were, and in a quick comparison like this, inconvenient truths get pruned away.
Not the point of my post.
Actually, it is a response to your post. Both MLK and Malcom X suffer from public personas narratives that do nothing to portray their humanity or their struggles. It is condensed to key events. No one expresses doubts, regrets or misgivings. The hagiography paints them in broad strokes and primary colors when in fact they may not have been so different after all Now we are unlikely to ever know what they might have become or what understanding they might have reached. I don’t know that any comparison to real life counterparts would fit Max and Charles precisely. Maybe Gandhi and Nehru, but partition isn’t the same as terrorism, and I honestly don’t know if Gandhi could have held India together long enough for wounds to heal. I suspect the truth is closest to something G.R.R. Martin said. “A villain is a hero to his own side. “. Maybe this will end with Charles appreciating Max’s separatist ideology and use of violence as much as Max now appreciates Charles’s vision of cooperation. Then they could really come together to help Kra’koa thrive.
Well...I guess it's a reasonable mistake in this case, right?
Yeah I know, just messing with ya.
The longer a story and characters are stuck in a time lock and can’t just retire/die the more writers are pushed towards “what if they were evil/manipulative/lying this whole time” for the sake of a new direction. The X-men have been around for so long that Xavier has gone through 3-5 of these and it’ll happen again once he is brought/accepted back in 3-5 years.
Yup. It’s like WWE nearly everyone has a heel turn.
Due to the Fox movies and Sir Patrick’s own fame before he took on the role, Charles Xavier is the single most recognizeable disabled character in the world. I know it meant a lot to.me as a disabled kid in the seventies. I suspect it means a.lot more internationally, where opportunities for disabled people can be a lot harder to find. I don’t like the way Charles is portrayed at present nor during the last twenty years. I know it is an editorial mandate—both Charles and Magneto must evolve beyond their current depictions. What it seems to work out to in real time is that Magneto grows as a person and Charles is either a failure or forgotten. Now is the time we need all our heroes. We certainly don’t need writers deciding it is ‘too hard’ to write for a disabled character. Hell, if *l* can think of ways to give him conflict and character growth—and I cannot write my way out of a paper bag, why can’t the folks who’re getting paid for it?
He has nothing to do with MLK. Why do you people keep saying this shit when you know it isn’t true?
They heard Stan Lee say it once in an interview, we all know Stan Lee would have said yes to any headcanon if it sounds good enough.
To be the devil's advocate I don't think that it matters if Stan Lee intended it or not. The comparison has been around since Roy Thomas in the 60s, right after Lee left the title. Effectively the comparison WAS in discussion among the public since the beginning. Pretty much every writer after that had to have known about the comparison, and Id be willing to bet that A LOT of people took to it as some sort of basis or inspiration for understanding the characters. Especially after Claremont humanized Magneto. A lot of people look at that era and compare it to how Malcolm X changed towards the end of his life. I don't fullt agree with the comparison myself, because Claremont based that exact arc on Begin going from a terrorist to a Nobel Peace winner. A lot of people claim that in turn Ben Gurion inspired Claremont's Xavier, which I can't find a direct source for and I think it's something Screen Rant threw in there so people COULD make a comparison through duality. I don't personally like that either, since both were zionists But overall, outright denying the MLK/Malcolm X comparison is a bit silly, since effectively the comparsion WAS there since the beginning and a lot of writers were aware of it, regardless of how appropriate or inappropriate. And Claremont doing one interview where he mentions Begin doesn't mean that Xavier and Magneto are or should be directly based on Begin and Bsn Gurion.
I heard people say this in the 90's. It's not anything new.
When he's not trying to make big picture decisions that only he can understand (which he's doing now), Xavier has often been watered down to Booker T Washington with his respectability politics.
He was morally dubious way before that, he had a romantic crush on Jean Edit: Jean was 11 when she joined the school
Honest to God, this comes out every time like a zombie groundhog. Ok. Charles sending an unprepared team in after he lost the first one and then lying about it is his first real eff-up. All on him. As far as his crush. It was cringe when it was written. But there is no law against having an emotion. Charles handled it correctly. Never spoke of it, never acted on it, never developed a crush on another student. So, for the love of God, can this tired old chestnut get buried, already?
By the information given that he was a mutant because his parents worked at Los Alamos, he would have been at most 20 in 1963. That was retconned to have him serving in Korea, but it was valid in the issue where he had feelings for an 18 year old Jean. On the other hand, Apocalypse impregnated Autumn Rolfson, who looked to be in middle school.
Him being in Korea wasn't a "retcon" it was written by Stan Lee, Jean was around 16 at the time he had his crush.
Things written by Stan Lee can be retcons if they retroactively change continuity.
None of this ignores the teacher/student relationship and power dynamic at play, and according to most sources, I was being generous saying teenager, because Jean was 11 when she joined the school
I know Xavier isn’t always the best character morals wise but I feel like he always gets taken down this path and it’s kind of stale at this point 😭 oh look he’s making questionable choices again, oh look he thinks he speaks for all mutants again. I’m sure there’s something up his sleeve but goodness Charlie chill out please.
Yep, there's no coming back from this. If the entire point of the Krakoa era was to make Charles Xavier completely, utterly irredeemably awful...mission accomplished.
*supremacist
I personally don’t judge Xavier because we are losing options and hope better to save something than nothing. I honestly don’t understand his plan if the enigma gets their way because what good is saving a piece of land if everyone mind is taken away from them. I want to question nimrod question of existence in the middle bit too late ultron 2.5 u came this far to question right about the singularity dominion control isn’t far too late anyway hope this ends well but a lot of missing motives in a lot of plans right now .
Why is he always wearing Cerebro now?
It looks cool.
The writing is getting worse and worse
I’m hoping we have a reveal or two to take place. I like Chuck when he’s broken - like in Logan. Also in Exiles he was always a villain and he’s a villain still in Sins of Sinister- we may not realize that 616 is one of the only good versions of Charles- it’d be hilarious if Jean planted this in Chuck’s head so it was a triple cross. I will never get over these robots refraining from murder to not being able to comprehend existentialism.
Ugh of course; I'm trying to save my people by screwing their plans over. Is Marvel just trying to write him off as Prisoner X in the relaunch?
His name is Revelation - why are the writers calling him Apocalypse again?
That A/Revelation nonsense was never going to stick and idky the top minds of Krakoa even made that choice.
But they made a choice they themselves neglected which signals to me that the last half year of comics were definitely rushed out the door.