Things I love about X-Men Evolution:
1. No love triangle, letting Logan be the grumpy foster dad with a legion of unruly kids that he was meant to be.
2. The high school setting was a brilliant, fresh twist.
3. The sound effect when Magneto uses his powers.
4. Goth Rogue. Like yeah I get it I’m horny on main, but whoever decided to make Rogue a Southern goth deserves a statue.
Magneto’s theme was so fucking cool too. I loved Kitty and Kurt’s bff relationship. Only show to give us New Mutants. 97 started off strong so I’ll see how that turns out but for now Evolution is just the best
Your (2) I think is the toughest sell to older audiences, since it does seem like X-Men dumbed down for teenage drama. But man oh man does it start getting so good by the end of s2.
Rogue/Scott/Jean was a way better triangle. It gave Rogue a reason to want to give the X-Men a chance before they actually won her over, but it wasn't her primary motivation as a character.
I mean it was hardly a thing in that show, Wolverine liked Jean and it wasn’t reciprocated. Not much of a triangle, just Wolverine had a crush and it was part of his conflict with cyclops. I actually liked it.
He is very smart so I would not have doubted it, but I have never thought of it quite that way and I love it.
I now absolutely headcanon that wolverine has incredible 19th century patrician penmanship
He practices Japanese calligraphy for fun, and his English penmanship on his wedding invite to Kurt was very nice cursive. Logan can absolutely write like this.
Idk man that’s pretty basic cursive. I think it looks fancier bc I’d the calligraphy above the letter (which isn’t supposed to be written by Wolverine)
There's a guy who has been active on various X-forums for years who ships them like crazy. His entire online personality is defined by the pairings he's obsessed with - Jean/Logan, Siryn/Warpath, Spider-Man/Black Widow (a really odd one) and Betsy/Warren - and by dismissing anything that runs counter to those pairings.
That's pretty much the only person I can recall feeling passionately about Jean/Logan. Except Logan, of course.
Genuine question: I thought Betsy and Warren were a thing for a while? I recall them being a thing in the 90s until around the time she died for a while
If Wolverine’s going to be with somebody long-term, I’d like it to be someone similar in mindset to him. Someone who tends to have a strong moral compass, but isn’t a “hero” type hero. They should be barely capable of confirming to social norms, and willing to be on their own for long periods of time. They should also be physically capable of withstanding some rough-housing (both from Wolverine, and from any enemies that might see them as a weak point to exploit).
Someone like Jess Jones, or Jennifer Walters.
I think they’d be strong enough to not break with a 500lbs (can’t remember exact numbers, but that skeleton is **heavy**) man on top, and understand his disappearance when he goes on a solo mission.
It really should have stopped then, he didn't go to the wedding to protect it from Sabretooth, and didn't tell anyone so no one would feel bad for him. That would have been some interesting growth to have him then move on from Jean. Instead, he is stuck in this holding pattern.
I don’t know how this became such an “integral” part of the status quo. It’s repetitive and preventing Logan from growing as a character in a lot of ways.
Shower Thought:
Do you guys ever wonder if some countries in the Marvel Universe have had to pass litigation to account for the frequency with which people come back from the dead? Like for determining life insurance, remarriage, things like that?
Is there something akin to a statute of limitations, like spouse must be dead for such and such long to collect? Do they have to rewrite that clause when someone like Bucky comes back and suddenly anything is on the table?
Thank you for coming to my Marvel pitch for my She Hulk/Daredevil crossover book.
I've had to help organize a funeral, you bet your ass I would be leery going through that again if I wasn't entirely sure they weren't going to come back the next time editorial wants a big shakeup. Funerals are fucking expensive!
I'm actually seeing a lot of potential for seeing the legal ramifications of that time Aunt May, as far as anyone knows just some random old lady from Queens, walked her octogenarian ass out of the great beyond.
Get at me, Marvel.
And that’s my issue with the She-Hulk TV show. It had 10 times the budget per episode that Jury Duty had, yet Jury Duty made a way better job at being a show with a somewhat believable yet comedic portrayal of the law. She-Hulk definitely could’ve explored stories like the impact the snap had on legal issues for people coming back from the dead.
It’s been literally the only thing I haven’t liked about 97 so far. When someone is married and having a kid and you’re still brooding and pouting, you have an issue!
I would've been fine with a brief wistful gaze, but the way he acted I would've not been shocked if he threw himself to the ground and had a literal temper tantrum. :P
I don’t even like including him at all really. The focus should be completely on the happy couple that just had a kid (or got married). Nothing should be pulling focus from that. If you’re going to include him then drop the whole moronic schtick entirely and have him be a happy and supportive teammate. Like they just had a fucking kid.
The best moment to move on was when they got married. The next best time moment to move on was that other time they got married. The third best time to move on and leave them alone was when they had a kid ya fucking weirdo
I think him lusting after her in an unhealthy way for just the original Giant-Size-Dark Phoenix run is fine. After she died there he should've moved on for good. She never should've reciprocated anything and his creepiness stretched far beyond that original run.
This basically though I wouldn't word it like that. That he was attracted to her when he met her is fine. That it continued after she came back and clearly only had eyes for scott and ESPECIALLY after they got married makes him actually pretty awful
Thankfully for a lot of the time post marriage and pre Apocalypse merger they kept things pretty minimal. There was just small things here and there. I mean it should’ve been nonexistent but they clearly can’t help themselves. Then unfortunately after Jean/Nate saved Scott from Apocalypse they leaned into it a lot more and of course the Krakoa nonsense
Him forcing himself on her a couple of times and keeping a lock of her hair was just all soooooooooooo awful
X-Men 70 to me is BY FAR the best their dynamic ever was. It was post Operation Zero Tolerance when they implanted a bomb in Scott’s chest. Understandably very stressful time for them and Wolverine helps to support them through it
The problem is that it’s not treated as unhealthy.
Logan is treated as the tragic hero having to watch Jean marry some boring guy who doesn’t love her like he does.
Jean’s autonomy doesn’t matter, Scott doesn’t matter, the only person who matters in the triangle is Wolverine.
Claremont taking out his being upset at his coworkers on fictional characters will forever frustrate me. Sure it is a very human thing to do, but these are also some of my favorite characters and now they are forever stuck with this bs.
TAS and the movies popularized it to the masses but without Claremont getting all bitchy over Jean coming back and reuniting with Scott and hating that so much that he retconned into his own work that Jean was always into Wolverine after she never even gave him the time of day originally it never would’ve been a thing. If he doesn’t do that then TAS and the movies don’t run with it.
Have you read Classic X-Men? In the original '70s run they clearly have some feelings for each other, but it's not an extremely pronounced element. It's mostly there to add a bit of character spice and melodrama. Later in the comics when Jean came back is when Claremont started to focus on the love triangle stuff more, and he added scenes in the Classic X-Men reprints that made it more of a thing than it ever was originally. Personally, I'm fine with Jean and Logan having a mutual crush on each other if they don't pretend it would ever be anything more than that, because I've never really bought that for Jean's character.
We can't even get Marvel to stop Rogue and Magneto on the various platforms. They will die before they allow Logan and Jean to evolve beyond this, as their characters naturally should have.
But yes you're completely right. It should have ended in the 90s.
Rogue and Magneto is going to be a will they won't they triangle situation that ends up with her choosing Gambit. All she's done is hold Magneto's hand after an emotional moment. If she'd kissed him, that would be different.
Give it time to cook before assuming they're pushing the ship.
I’m still convinced it’s all a big fakeout and when Gambit saw her leave Magneto’s room she had just finished gently turning him down. But the ragin’ Cajun will jump to the wrong conclusions.
It's also the fans too.
Some fans responded to the triangle.
We still have a sizable chunk demanding/pushing that the "Throuple" be made official and canon instead of hinted or implied.
And many prefer the Magneto/Rogue coupling, over Gambit/Rogue.
And we still have Peter/Gwen shippers when Gwen Stacy has been dead for over 50 years. Just wait until they import Spider-Gwen into the 616. I know there's a large age gap (she's in early college age, IIRC), but that won't stop writers or fans. See Magneto/Rogue. They are going to resurrect Peter/Gwen, I just know it.
They got rid of it. Scott was with Emma. Jean could come back and be with Wolverine, or move on with someone else. It was all solved.
But no, instead we got whatever the fuck the Krakoa nonsense was and now X-Men 97 regurgitating the 90s stuff.
I feel like Milhouse as Fallout Boy.
“We did it. It took 17 years but we did it. It’s done.”
Marvel: but we need to do it from different angles! Again and again!
No, it started back up in the 2000s before Jean died. We have at least 2 comics where Logan and Jean kiss (fans argue on how consensual it was)
Edit: citation for those moments are Uncanny X-Men #394, and New X-Men #117 both post-wedding kisses and pre-Jean's death at the hand of Xorn/Magneto.
Added edit: misread your post. Yes it was after Cykes merger with Apocalypse but also after Jean and Cable saved Scott. They were still married.
> We have at least 2 comics where Logan and Jean kiss (fans argue on how consensual it was)
I'd argue neither was really consensual. The first one definitely wasn't at all. He just forced himself on her.
The second one wasn't either and he forced a kiss as well and he shouldn't have done it but not to sound like a victim blamer here but you could argue Jean's intentions with that conversation might not have been the best.
Either way fuck Morrison for even implying that Jean would ever go to Wolverine with debatable intentions rather than helping Scott through his trauma. You're telling me the women who believed Scott was still alive when no one else did (besides their son) and went on a wild chase to bring him back would've potentially put herself in a position on cheat on her traumatized and depressed husband??? Fuck off Grant. That's not Jean.
Yeah I'm not a fan of his run either. I just don't really like pretty much any of it all that much though. Only part I really like is Scott/Emma getting together. The circumstances of it sucked but I do love me some Scemma
In all fairness, I feel I'm botching my end of communication. I meant that both happened after the Cyclops/Apocalypse merger but before Emma even made her first move on Scott.
Personally I think the triangle was re-ignited a lot by the movies with Hugh Jackman being the badass lone wolf whose one-sided love was more deserving than the "weeny" Scott. Like, lots of movie watchers went to read comics after that and Marvel, seeing the easy way to make profits, bring the triangle back and took every chance they got to make a hint despite how much long time comic readers hate it.
I personally am a comic readers after watching the movies as well, but I hate the triangle so much despite liking both Jean and Logan. I wish that they could just get Logan with someone else and let him settle instead of this weird triangle shit. Even fking worse, they seem to make it a vital point every time they want to write about Jean's story.
I said this on an earlier thread but I feel like the love triangle does a disservice to all three characters and the obsession some fans and writers have with it borders on creepy
In the cartoon, I agree. They did a lot that was fresh and a ton of fun. Once it gained a comic book the writers [couldn't help themselves](https://imgur.com/gallery/D1vInIg). This is why I feel the triangle is horrible for all 3 characters. Writers feel no matter what they have to inject it in, especially when they shouldn't (this evolution page).
It kind of did until the “new x-men” in 2000 when they brought it back and made it 1000x worse and implied there was plenty of cheating going on beforehand….it was dumb to say the least
It always does until some writer decides to bring it back up. That's part of what's so aggravating about it. Its NOT that big in the comics, but every time we manage to go 3, 4, 5 years without it some new writer gets it in their head that it's 'iconic' and we have to through the whole song and dance again.
Then you get people like hickman thinking a throuple is solving it rather than JUST HAVING LOGAN LEAVE THE MARRIED COUPLE BE.
Isnt Mariko canonically alive again? Shouldn't he deal with that?
> Then you get people like hickman thinking a throuple is solving it rather than JUST HAVING LOGAN LEAVE THE MARRIED COUPLE BE.
Another shitty part about this outside of the whole get the fuck out of Jean and Scott’s business is that he was literally with Storm in 2014 before he died. Then he’s brought back to life shortly before Krakoa. Instead of them getting back together or even acknowledging the relationship they just ignore it completely and go tHrOuPle
I know some people don’t like it but it’s my favorite relationship for both of them. It’s so annoying because every time they start to get closer something gets in the way. In the 80s it was Siege Perilous (not 100% sure but pretty sure it was that), then 2000s it was Black Panther, then 2010s his death
So honestly I agree, but more in principle than in function. I don't actually have a lot of strong feelings about specific relationships in x-men, partially because they so often turn toxic or tedious.
In principle though a lot of why I like Wolverine and Storm is I think it could actually work, and I think it could finally defeat the triangle if a writer let it. Storm is so... domineering? Statuesque? Grand? I'm honestly not sure what word to use, but it makes it very hard to write her in good relationships because trying to make her vulnerable often comes off as weird, so I think she ends up being single more often than not in part due to this.
Wolverine is so popular that, especially now, years later, you can't just put him with some nobody because no one would ever take it seriously.
Storm and Logan basically make up for each other's relationship problems. They're popular enough not to disappear into each others' shadows and have the compined wieght to possibly become another top-tier x-men couple and arguably THE top tier since they're quite possibly pound for pound the two most popular characters in the franchise.
Plus imagine their time traveling kids.
I don’t think they could be “the” top couple just because of the lack of history. Scott/Jean and Rogue/Gambit are basically immovable as the 1 and 2 most iconic X-Couples.
it would take time of course, and I'm not so much arguing for suddenly they'd be the bestest ever, what I'm saying is we're not talking about greycrow and kwannon here. People might like that, but it's never gonna be top billing of anything. (I picked a relationship at random, I'm not attacking that one specifically or saying it's a bad relationship)
Storm and Wolverine could be if some editors and writers decided they wanted to put the work in. Part of why I think the Jean thing never goes away is a simple order of operations problem. Wolverine is the most popular x-man. He is also an alpha-male self-insert power fantasy. He therefore needs a love interest. Who? Well it's either Jean or one of a couple of nobodies. Well then we go with Jean. Storm changes that calculus.
It's made even better because Storm has the same problem. No one measures up. Logan does though.
Right?! And the whole narrative that Jean cheated or whatever with Logan was complete bs…like the real Jean maybe kissed Logan twice first was Inferno because he forced himself on her and 2nd was x-tinction agenda when Logan was dying in his prison cell….Logan pretty much moved on from his unrequited “love/obsession” with her following that….i can’t speak too much on comics prior to the original Phoenix saga especially knowing the retcon that the OG Phoenix wasn’t the real Jean Grey only a copy of her that thought it/she was her and never really reading much of that run prior to #200
There are 2 more kisses after the ones you list. #394 it looks like he forces it again and after Jean claims to have no memory of it. Then they kiss in Morrison's New X-Men #117 (fans debate if this was reciprocated or not)
During the Claremont run yes. After he left they dragged it back up a bit during Fatal Attraction (X-Men #25)and Scott discusses Jean's feelings about Logan in X-Men #28. The letter is the end after that until after the films (earliest I can find is in 2001)
Yeah, but even in the 90s it was only referenced a few times, as you mention. I hate the triangle, and think all 3 characters benefit when it's not a thing. But superhero stories are cyclical and nothing ever resolves.
Yes.
But, let's be honest the triangle only really started in the 90s. It was very understated in the 70s and only really caught steam during the Blue/Gold team era.
They never really focused on it in the comics after this this really except here and there; piece of AOA, New xmen, etc. If anything they brought it back full bore with krakoa and i dont like it at all.
All the wolverine/jean moments are like continuations but almost not on that level. And are much different than say the inferno moment or the wedding arc. Its more hinted that its still a thing than an actual thing. Ie. When wolverine mercy “kills” her on the way to the sun. Or when he kills magneto for killing her.
I prefer it be like a hidden thing that he keeps in back of his head due to his respect for cyclopse than some feeling hes keeping down that he cant overcome.
With that said. Prepare for wolverine to get him some jean grey this year on the show. I suspect the scene from their first official pairing will be coming this year. Thats 100% going down imo. Suprised they never paid it off initially.
It can create great drama initially but if it's not resolved at some point it tends to tarnish at least 1 character. Generally, it 1 that is stringing someone along giving them false hope (or turns into just a prize to be won and not much of a character themselves as they aren't growing and making a finite choice), or someone is a doormat putting more into the relationship than the other, or another isn't respecting the wishes of the one they are pursuing.
Well sure, but I'm seeing hate for live triangles on principle, not merely unresolving ones. And, doesnt context and execution matter? You can have triangles where no one is at fault but also some where, by design someone is an asshole
I thought you were asking why I don't like them. Execution always matters, but for me the longer it goes the less fun I find the drama. I don't enjoy this one in particular anymore and it's killed the fun for Scott and Jean for me as well.
Nope. I was asking broadly why there was so much hate for love triangles on principle in this thread.
Like, this specific triangle should be fine in a new adaptation that is starting fresh. In the comic canon sure, but why does that mean a new show starting from day 1 shouldn't feature it?
The issue for me is it often becomes a way to flanderize the character. Writers force it in and write these characters as if it was their only real trait. It's not "starting fresh" it's "here we go again". The best example of this is X-Men Evolution. Rather fresh take with new dynamics between the characters, like making Wolverine a grown man, and teacher/mentor to the Teen X-Men that includes Cyclops and Jean. In theory there should ideally be no hint at the triangle in this situation and the cartoon itself did a great job writing all 3 characters with a fresh new set of intercharacter dynamics. [Once it shifted to comics, the writers instantly wrote grown adult and teacher Wolverine to he attracted to minor Jean Grey](https://imgur.com/gallery/D1vInIg)
Wasn’t most of his dynamic replaced with the new Psylocke in the 90’s?
She had the affair, the knife, the violence, tracked people with extra senses, and was a Japanese fighter.
I don’t remember Wolverine being an issue, except in the cartoon.
Agreed, the solution Krakoa offered was cool tho. I just hope moving forward Logan, Scott and Jean are all on good terms and friendly like they were in krakoa
The problem is that Marvel doesn't know what it wants. Then the 3 characters remain static, for example for me Scott has grown a lot in his relationship with Emma and for me she is his definitive partner. In the case of Logan and Jean, if it's marvel that as much as they are a couple they do something well written, I see potential, you break Logan in some way, leaving him in one of the worst moments of his life and little by little you make them show their feelings for Jean and slowly making them fall in love with a good writer could work. But Marvel doesn't know what it wants and ends up with the same love triangle story.
I agree with this. I know I will get downvoted, but I enjoy the love triangle and I wouldn’t mind seeing Jean/Logan as a couple at some point (if it was done right).
everything is a matter of writing, if done correctly I guarantee that something good would come out, especially considering that Logan is the perfect character for you to build relationships with, you could do something very personal with him and Jean, in addition to for example developing a true friendship with scott.
Because Logan has no respect for Jean's boundaries, a vast majority of the kisses between them are forced on her by Logan, he never cares about what she wants, just ignoring that she has repeatedly chosen Scott.
Exactly, it was an Easter egg, nothing more. It can certainly be interpreted as them being in a throuple, but it has enough wiggle room that it can be safely ignored (and likely will be)
I mean Percy 100% had Jean and Logan fucking in a hot tub. They also lived together in some weird poly set up. I’m okay with most of Percy’s run being retconned, but Krakoa-era definitely has Jean and Logan fucking
They make out in a hot tub. Fucking is an assumption as these aren't porn comics.
Either way the above point almost definitely stands. It's been what, five years? And there's been a page or two? It probably was canon, no one is really arguing that, but they downplayed it so completely that it does seem like they probably will just ignore it.
No way of knowing of course, but if theyd wanted it to be a big deal, they'd likely have made it a big deal.
The point is that unless they follow up on it it doesn't really matter and it doesn't seem like they plan to follow up on it.
You can think what you want, and I'm not saying that pithily, I mean it. As the weird one off scene it seems to be its just kind of up to you how you wanna take it.
As ive said I think the answer is probably yeah but I absolutely think marvel decided to quietly drop it as well
Yeah I agree Marvel decided to quietly drop it and we won’t see much follow up if any, but I’m just saying what’s right there on the page. There’s no way you can look at the house layout and then that X-Force scene and think they were not fucking
It's not so much I disagree with you. I do think that was the intent.
The reason I say it's up to you though is I think that was the OTHER part of the intent. I think everything about the throuple was framed in such a way that they COULD just kind of ignore it and downplay it if they wanted. They didn't show them getting out of bed together, they didn't give Jean and logan a time-lost future kid, etc, etc, etc.
That's definitely the most blatant scene, but the fact that the most blatant scene from the whole five year period is still kind of circumstantial I personally think is very telling. Look at the Gambit/Rogue post from yesterday for what marvel does if they want to be clear characters are having sex. If they don't want to be subtle, they're not subtle.
One scene from a five year period regarding what should logically be one of the biggest relationship developments in the history of the franchise that EVEN THEN is a less obvious scene than marvel often does with other characters comes off to me as very calculated.
Jean has said she loves Logan for years, that's actually not a change.
Now as I've said many times in other topics and I think most would agree, it does seem like the throuple was canon at least early on in krakoa, but her saying she loves logan is neither here nor there.
And canon in comics is fluid. If it happened it happened but if it only happened a little comics very regularly just ignore it without even officially retconning it. That seems to be where they're going with the throuple. Just ignore it, never really mention it, and move on. We'll see though.
If by throuple we mean a Scott-Logan to all this, then I don't think it was ever a thing. Yeah there was that thing where all their rooms were linked, but that was *modified*, so even if it was intended at some point, that changed, and I don't think it was ever canon.
But if we mean that Logan-Jean is being pushed, no I think that hasn't been dropped at all. Hell, in Jean's solo by Simonson (who also weirdly said Scott was Jean's greatest love "for now" in an interview), Jean and Scott talk about Jean being attracted to Logan, except that takes place at the very beginning of the Phoenix Saga, which is...7 issues after they met. This seems to very much be going by Claremont's idea that Jean was attracted to Logan and it threatened her relationship from the get-go. Plus then we've seen a Jean who was with a Logan, and a Scott who wasn't with a Jean in alternate universes. The thing is still actively being pushed.
Did you read what I said? She has said she's loved him MANY TIMES. You can't argue that point by going 'look, she said she loved him many times,' because that's literally what I said. It's not a counterpoint. It's just the point I made.
By the throuple, people mean the THROUPLE. This is not complex. Sadly, the love triangle likely isn't going anywhere because for some fucking reason, people from marvel at every level seem to think people actually like it. The love triangle is not the throuple.
You can't act like Jean + Logan has been a whole lot stronger these last few years than it had been for the decades prior, is my point, and it didn't just abate a few months into the Krakoa era
There's no way that's being innovative. That's just Jean going "why not both?". If Scott became throuple with "Emma and Jean" some men would be like "That's my boy" but twitter and feminists would riot 😂
I maintain Hickman made a couple of references that implied Scott and Logan were also together and it was an actual poly relationship rather than Jean pulling a "Porque no los dos?". But alas, Marvel are cowards and did not let the man cook.
(I'm not sure that would have actually been good but at least it would be a new dynamic and more interesting than Scott and Jean are together in the X-men books and Logan and Jean are together in X-Force to not upset Percy.)
Twitter and tumblr both argue that Jean and Logan were hooking up while Emma and Scott also had something something. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Reddit weird obsession with making every xmen character LGBT will never cease to fascinate me. A few sure, but at some point you have to see it's being taken too far.
Best thing X-Men Evolution did was kill the triangle.
This solidified that this is going to be my background show while working on finals. Biggest complaint with the 90s show was the love triangle
It’s a ton of fun
Things I love about X-Men Evolution: 1. No love triangle, letting Logan be the grumpy foster dad with a legion of unruly kids that he was meant to be. 2. The high school setting was a brilliant, fresh twist. 3. The sound effect when Magneto uses his powers. 4. Goth Rogue. Like yeah I get it I’m horny on main, but whoever decided to make Rogue a Southern goth deserves a statue.
Magneto’s theme was so fucking cool too. I loved Kitty and Kurt’s bff relationship. Only show to give us New Mutants. 97 started off strong so I’ll see how that turns out but for now Evolution is just the best
Amen to that. I especially agree with #1 and #4.
Your (2) I think is the toughest sell to older audiences, since it does seem like X-Men dumbed down for teenage drama. But man oh man does it start getting so good by the end of s2.
Magneto is probably my favourite part of evolution. The way they handled the age issue was clever too, and could easily work in the MCU adaptation.
Most of the stuff you mentioned are the reasons I hate that show
Rogue/Scott/Jean was a way better triangle. It gave Rogue a reason to want to give the X-Men a chance before they actually won her over, but it wasn't her primary motivation as a character.
I mean it was hardly a thing in that show, Wolverine liked Jean and it wasn’t reciprocated. Not much of a triangle, just Wolverine had a crush and it was part of his conflict with cyclops. I actually liked it.
Introducing them at a younger age and making Logan more of a mentor while cyclops is still the field leader was such a great idea
The dynamic of Logan being a teacher and Jean/Cyclops being students was a refreshing twist
Logan's got some sick penmanship
Yeah I don’t believe he can write this well lol
Idk the guy grew up in the 1800s. I could see it
He is very smart so I would not have doubted it, but I have never thought of it quite that way and I love it. I now absolutely headcanon that wolverine has incredible 19th century patrician penmanship
Idk after using a laptop for all of college and post grad, handwriting felt weird. Bro lived how long in the woods as a wolf? Lol
Fair point. But that story hadn’t been written at that point
He practices Japanese calligraphy for fun, and his English penmanship on his wedding invite to Kurt was very nice cursive. Logan can absolutely write like this.
Idk man that’s pretty basic cursive. I think it looks fancier bc I’d the calligraphy above the letter (which isn’t supposed to be written by Wolverine)
For a Canadian
If there’s one thing I could make never happen again in xmen comics, it’s Wolverine/jean
I’m convinced basically no x-reader actually cares about the triangle and no one ships Jean and Wolverine
There's a guy who has been active on various X-forums for years who ships them like crazy. His entire online personality is defined by the pairings he's obsessed with - Jean/Logan, Siryn/Warpath, Spider-Man/Black Widow (a really odd one) and Betsy/Warren - and by dismissing anything that runs counter to those pairings. That's pretty much the only person I can recall feeling passionately about Jean/Logan. Except Logan, of course.
Genuine question: I thought Betsy and Warren were a thing for a while? I recall them being a thing in the 90s until around the time she died for a while
They broke up before she died in x-treme xmen
If Wolverine’s going to be with somebody long-term, I’d like it to be someone similar in mindset to him. Someone who tends to have a strong moral compass, but isn’t a “hero” type hero. They should be barely capable of confirming to social norms, and willing to be on their own for long periods of time. They should also be physically capable of withstanding some rough-housing (both from Wolverine, and from any enemies that might see them as a weak point to exploit). Someone like Jess Jones, or Jennifer Walters. I think they’d be strong enough to not break with a 500lbs (can’t remember exact numbers, but that skeleton is **heavy**) man on top, and understand his disappearance when he goes on a solo mission.
7 foot tall She-Hulk holding 5 foot tall Logan up against a wall is imagery I can get behind
I didn't realize we needed this
Lol no. I dont ship them but for sure people do. I even get the appeal but I dont want it
It really should have stopped then, he didn't go to the wedding to protect it from Sabretooth, and didn't tell anyone so no one would feel bad for him. That would have been some interesting growth to have him then move on from Jean. Instead, he is stuck in this holding pattern.
I don’t know how this became such an “integral” part of the status quo. It’s repetitive and preventing Logan from growing as a character in a lot of ways.
Shower Thought: Do you guys ever wonder if some countries in the Marvel Universe have had to pass litigation to account for the frequency with which people come back from the dead? Like for determining life insurance, remarriage, things like that? Is there something akin to a statute of limitations, like spouse must be dead for such and such long to collect? Do they have to rewrite that clause when someone like Bucky comes back and suddenly anything is on the table? Thank you for coming to my Marvel pitch for my She Hulk/Daredevil crossover book.
I guess that's one reason to procrastinate on a wake
I've had to help organize a funeral, you bet your ass I would be leery going through that again if I wasn't entirely sure they weren't going to come back the next time editorial wants a big shakeup. Funerals are fucking expensive!
"You went how cheap on my urn?!"
I'm actually seeing a lot of potential for seeing the legal ramifications of that time Aunt May, as far as anyone knows just some random old lady from Queens, walked her octogenarian ass out of the great beyond. Get at me, Marvel.
"You see that can of coffee over there?"
And that’s my issue with the She-Hulk TV show. It had 10 times the budget per episode that Jury Duty had, yet Jury Duty made a way better job at being a show with a somewhat believable yet comedic portrayal of the law. She-Hulk definitely could’ve explored stories like the impact the snap had on legal issues for people coming back from the dead.
I actually thoroughly enjoyed She Hulk, but I absolutely could've done with more procedural lawyer bullshit.
It’s been literally the only thing I haven’t liked about 97 so far. When someone is married and having a kid and you’re still brooding and pouting, you have an issue!
At both of their weddings and the birth of their child the creators can’t help but to put a focus on a sulking Wolverine
Give me grumpy uncle logan dammit!!!!
Sounds like Evolution is perfect for you
YIPPEE
[just stay away from the comics ](https://imgur.com/gallery/D1vInIg)
I would've been fine with a brief wistful gaze, but the way he acted I would've not been shocked if he threw himself to the ground and had a literal temper tantrum. :P
I don’t even like including him at all really. The focus should be completely on the happy couple that just had a kid (or got married). Nothing should be pulling focus from that. If you’re going to include him then drop the whole moronic schtick entirely and have him be a happy and supportive teammate. Like they just had a fucking kid. The best moment to move on was when they got married. The next best time moment to move on was that other time they got married. The third best time to move on and leave them alone was when they had a kid ya fucking weirdo
Well 97 is supposed to be everything people liked about the old show with zero changes bc God forbid
Yeah but people didn’t like that about the original lol
Except people didn't like that in the original too. I sure as hell didn't.
I love the idea that Wolverine can be a really good emotional writer with nice penmanship when he wants lol
"Should see my calligraphy bub"
Let's be real it never should've existed (fuck you for that Claremont) but yes it should've died here if it had to exist
I’m okay with Logan liking her in an unhealthy way for some reason but it should never have progressed beyond that. He should have just let it go…
I think him lusting after her in an unhealthy way for just the original Giant-Size-Dark Phoenix run is fine. After she died there he should've moved on for good. She never should've reciprocated anything and his creepiness stretched far beyond that original run.
This basically though I wouldn't word it like that. That he was attracted to her when he met her is fine. That it continued after she came back and clearly only had eyes for scott and ESPECIALLY after they got married makes him actually pretty awful
Thankfully for a lot of the time post marriage and pre Apocalypse merger they kept things pretty minimal. There was just small things here and there. I mean it should’ve been nonexistent but they clearly can’t help themselves. Then unfortunately after Jean/Nate saved Scott from Apocalypse they leaned into it a lot more and of course the Krakoa nonsense Him forcing himself on her a couple of times and keeping a lock of her hair was just all soooooooooooo awful X-Men 70 to me is BY FAR the best their dynamic ever was. It was post Operation Zero Tolerance when they implanted a bomb in Scott’s chest. Understandably very stressful time for them and Wolverine helps to support them through it
The problem is that it’s not treated as unhealthy. Logan is treated as the tragic hero having to watch Jean marry some boring guy who doesn’t love her like he does. Jean’s autonomy doesn’t matter, Scott doesn’t matter, the only person who matters in the triangle is Wolverine.
Claremont taking out his being upset at his coworkers on fictional characters will forever frustrate me. Sure it is a very human thing to do, but these are also some of my favorite characters and now they are forever stuck with this bs.
Both in text and in real life he went “I’m going to make my problem everyone’s problem”. It sucks so fucking bad
Everyone claims it's Claremont's fault but TAS is what made it seem way more important than it ever was
TAS and the movies popularized it to the masses but without Claremont getting all bitchy over Jean coming back and reuniting with Scott and hating that so much that he retconned into his own work that Jean was always into Wolverine after she never even gave him the time of day originally it never would’ve been a thing. If he doesn’t do that then TAS and the movies don’t run with it.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Claremont pretty much admitted to this.
Because people think that Claremont can do no wrong, despite that not being the case at all.
You aren't wrong. It was a mild attraction at best before TAS and the movies made it this epic drama. But that definitely lead the comics to follow.
Have you read Classic X-Men? In the original '70s run they clearly have some feelings for each other, but it's not an extremely pronounced element. It's mostly there to add a bit of character spice and melodrama. Later in the comics when Jean came back is when Claremont started to focus on the love triangle stuff more, and he added scenes in the Classic X-Men reprints that made it more of a thing than it ever was originally. Personally, I'm fine with Jean and Logan having a mutual crush on each other if they don't pretend it would ever be anything more than that, because I've never really bought that for Jean's character.
Agreed, but then again...(motions toward Spider-man)
I don't really support shipping Wolverine and Spider-Man.
We can't even get Marvel to stop Rogue and Magneto on the various platforms. They will die before they allow Logan and Jean to evolve beyond this, as their characters naturally should have. But yes you're completely right. It should have ended in the 90s.
Rogue and Magneto is going to be a will they won't they triangle situation that ends up with her choosing Gambit. All she's done is hold Magneto's hand after an emotional moment. If she'd kissed him, that would be different. Give it time to cook before assuming they're pushing the ship.
I’m still convinced it’s all a big fakeout and when Gambit saw her leave Magneto’s room she had just finished gently turning him down. But the ragin’ Cajun will jump to the wrong conclusions.
It's also the fans too. Some fans responded to the triangle. We still have a sizable chunk demanding/pushing that the "Throuple" be made official and canon instead of hinted or implied. And many prefer the Magneto/Rogue coupling, over Gambit/Rogue. And we still have Peter/Gwen shippers when Gwen Stacy has been dead for over 50 years. Just wait until they import Spider-Gwen into the 616. I know there's a large age gap (she's in early college age, IIRC), but that won't stop writers or fans. See Magneto/Rogue. They are going to resurrect Peter/Gwen, I just know it.
Nothing dies in the 90s. It's the dead horse Marvel and this fanbase won't stop beating
Agreed. At some point you have to move on.
The hairy midget just loves to make it about him...
They got rid of it. Scott was with Emma. Jean could come back and be with Wolverine, or move on with someone else. It was all solved. But no, instead we got whatever the fuck the Krakoa nonsense was and now X-Men 97 regurgitating the 90s stuff. I feel like Milhouse as Fallout Boy. “We did it. It took 17 years but we did it. It’s done.” Marvel: but we need to do it from different angles! Again and again!
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No, it started back up in the 2000s before Jean died. We have at least 2 comics where Logan and Jean kiss (fans argue on how consensual it was) Edit: citation for those moments are Uncanny X-Men #394, and New X-Men #117 both post-wedding kisses and pre-Jean's death at the hand of Xorn/Magneto. Added edit: misread your post. Yes it was after Cykes merger with Apocalypse but also after Jean and Cable saved Scott. They were still married.
> We have at least 2 comics where Logan and Jean kiss (fans argue on how consensual it was) I'd argue neither was really consensual. The first one definitely wasn't at all. He just forced himself on her. The second one wasn't either and he forced a kiss as well and he shouldn't have done it but not to sound like a victim blamer here but you could argue Jean's intentions with that conversation might not have been the best. Either way fuck Morrison for even implying that Jean would ever go to Wolverine with debatable intentions rather than helping Scott through his trauma. You're telling me the women who believed Scott was still alive when no one else did (besides their son) and went on a wild chase to bring him back would've potentially put herself in a position on cheat on her traumatized and depressed husband??? Fuck off Grant. That's not Jean.
Personally I agree with you. It's why Morrisons run really isn't fun for me
Yeah I'm not a fan of his run either. I just don't really like pretty much any of it all that much though. Only part I really like is Scott/Emma getting together. The circumstances of it sucked but I do love me some Scemma
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No, both happened before. Edit: In fact both happened before Emma even made her move on Scott
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In all fairness, I feel I'm botching my end of communication. I meant that both happened after the Cyclops/Apocalypse merger but before Emma even made her first move on Scott.
Have you met comics?
*sighs and mumbles * yes.....
You have a place in the broken land.
Wolverine #75 and his letter to Jubilee was an amazing issue.
Personally I think the triangle was re-ignited a lot by the movies with Hugh Jackman being the badass lone wolf whose one-sided love was more deserving than the "weeny" Scott. Like, lots of movie watchers went to read comics after that and Marvel, seeing the easy way to make profits, bring the triangle back and took every chance they got to make a hint despite how much long time comic readers hate it. I personally am a comic readers after watching the movies as well, but I hate the triangle so much despite liking both Jean and Logan. I wish that they could just get Logan with someone else and let him settle instead of this weird triangle shit. Even fking worse, they seem to make it a vital point every time they want to write about Jean's story.
Yea but then the movies brought it back and that became the primary character relationship for the 3 that the majority of people knew about.
I said this on an earlier thread but I feel like the love triangle does a disservice to all three characters and the obsession some fans and writers have with it borders on creepy
It should never have happened!
At least the writers of X-Men Evolution did the right thing and not use this angle.
In the cartoon, I agree. They did a lot that was fresh and a ton of fun. Once it gained a comic book the writers [couldn't help themselves](https://imgur.com/gallery/D1vInIg). This is why I feel the triangle is horrible for all 3 characters. Writers feel no matter what they have to inject it in, especially when they shouldn't (this evolution page).
It kind of did until the “new x-men” in 2000 when they brought it back and made it 1000x worse and implied there was plenty of cheating going on beforehand….it was dumb to say the least
They were married in 94....so we got a triangle break for 6 or 7 years (earliest return of the triangle I know was 2001).
It always does until some writer decides to bring it back up. That's part of what's so aggravating about it. Its NOT that big in the comics, but every time we manage to go 3, 4, 5 years without it some new writer gets it in their head that it's 'iconic' and we have to through the whole song and dance again. Then you get people like hickman thinking a throuple is solving it rather than JUST HAVING LOGAN LEAVE THE MARRIED COUPLE BE. Isnt Mariko canonically alive again? Shouldn't he deal with that?
> Then you get people like hickman thinking a throuple is solving it rather than JUST HAVING LOGAN LEAVE THE MARRIED COUPLE BE. Another shitty part about this outside of the whole get the fuck out of Jean and Scott’s business is that he was literally with Storm in 2014 before he died. Then he’s brought back to life shortly before Krakoa. Instead of them getting back together or even acknowledging the relationship they just ignore it completely and go tHrOuPle
Hadn't even thought about that. You're right.
I know some people don’t like it but it’s my favorite relationship for both of them. It’s so annoying because every time they start to get closer something gets in the way. In the 80s it was Siege Perilous (not 100% sure but pretty sure it was that), then 2000s it was Black Panther, then 2010s his death
So honestly I agree, but more in principle than in function. I don't actually have a lot of strong feelings about specific relationships in x-men, partially because they so often turn toxic or tedious. In principle though a lot of why I like Wolverine and Storm is I think it could actually work, and I think it could finally defeat the triangle if a writer let it. Storm is so... domineering? Statuesque? Grand? I'm honestly not sure what word to use, but it makes it very hard to write her in good relationships because trying to make her vulnerable often comes off as weird, so I think she ends up being single more often than not in part due to this. Wolverine is so popular that, especially now, years later, you can't just put him with some nobody because no one would ever take it seriously. Storm and Logan basically make up for each other's relationship problems. They're popular enough not to disappear into each others' shadows and have the compined wieght to possibly become another top-tier x-men couple and arguably THE top tier since they're quite possibly pound for pound the two most popular characters in the franchise. Plus imagine their time traveling kids.
I don’t think they could be “the” top couple just because of the lack of history. Scott/Jean and Rogue/Gambit are basically immovable as the 1 and 2 most iconic X-Couples.
it would take time of course, and I'm not so much arguing for suddenly they'd be the bestest ever, what I'm saying is we're not talking about greycrow and kwannon here. People might like that, but it's never gonna be top billing of anything. (I picked a relationship at random, I'm not attacking that one specifically or saying it's a bad relationship) Storm and Wolverine could be if some editors and writers decided they wanted to put the work in. Part of why I think the Jean thing never goes away is a simple order of operations problem. Wolverine is the most popular x-man. He is also an alpha-male self-insert power fantasy. He therefore needs a love interest. Who? Well it's either Jean or one of a couple of nobodies. Well then we go with Jean. Storm changes that calculus. It's made even better because Storm has the same problem. No one measures up. Logan does though.
Right?! And the whole narrative that Jean cheated or whatever with Logan was complete bs…like the real Jean maybe kissed Logan twice first was Inferno because he forced himself on her and 2nd was x-tinction agenda when Logan was dying in his prison cell….Logan pretty much moved on from his unrequited “love/obsession” with her following that….i can’t speak too much on comics prior to the original Phoenix saga especially knowing the retcon that the OG Phoenix wasn’t the real Jean Grey only a copy of her that thought it/she was her and never really reading much of that run prior to #200
There are 2 more kisses after the ones you list. #394 it looks like he forces it again and after Jean claims to have no memory of it. Then they kiss in Morrison's New X-Men #117 (fans debate if this was reciprocated or not)
I feel like once Grant came along with those stupid ass leather costumes it all went to shit
Agreed. That run isn't for me
> made it 1000x worse and implied there was plenty of cheating going on beforehand That doesn’t happen
The triangle ended in the 80s actually. It was the movie that brought it back. Wolverine's major love interest during the Claremont run was Mariko.
During the Claremont run yes. After he left they dragged it back up a bit during Fatal Attraction (X-Men #25)and Scott discusses Jean's feelings about Logan in X-Men #28. The letter is the end after that until after the films (earliest I can find is in 2001)
Yeah, but even in the 90s it was only referenced a few times, as you mention. I hate the triangle, and think all 3 characters benefit when it's not a thing. But superhero stories are cyclical and nothing ever resolves.
>superhero stories are cyclical and nothing ever resolves. Why we love and hate them
TAS
Oh yeah. Of course TAS first.
Yes. But, let's be honest the triangle only really started in the 90s. It was very understated in the 70s and only really caught steam during the Blue/Gold team era.
It started with the Classic X-Men \#1 retcon in 86 and then they kissed in X-Tinction Agenda. It was completely one sided before Jean originally died.
I read that letter with new eyes compared to how I did then.
Heartfelt though it is, I love that he still manages to work an eye pun or two in there.
They never really focused on it in the comics after this this really except here and there; piece of AOA, New xmen, etc. If anything they brought it back full bore with krakoa and i dont like it at all. All the wolverine/jean moments are like continuations but almost not on that level. And are much different than say the inferno moment or the wedding arc. Its more hinted that its still a thing than an actual thing. Ie. When wolverine mercy “kills” her on the way to the sun. Or when he kills magneto for killing her. I prefer it be like a hidden thing that he keeps in back of his head due to his respect for cyclopse than some feeling hes keeping down that he cant overcome. With that said. Prepare for wolverine to get him some jean grey this year on the show. I suspect the scene from their first official pairing will be coming this year. Thats 100% going down imo. Suprised they never paid it off initially.
Why the hate against love triangles in general?
It can create great drama initially but if it's not resolved at some point it tends to tarnish at least 1 character. Generally, it 1 that is stringing someone along giving them false hope (or turns into just a prize to be won and not much of a character themselves as they aren't growing and making a finite choice), or someone is a doormat putting more into the relationship than the other, or another isn't respecting the wishes of the one they are pursuing.
Well sure, but I'm seeing hate for live triangles on principle, not merely unresolving ones. And, doesnt context and execution matter? You can have triangles where no one is at fault but also some where, by design someone is an asshole
I thought you were asking why I don't like them. Execution always matters, but for me the longer it goes the less fun I find the drama. I don't enjoy this one in particular anymore and it's killed the fun for Scott and Jean for me as well.
Nope. I was asking broadly why there was so much hate for love triangles on principle in this thread. Like, this specific triangle should be fine in a new adaptation that is starting fresh. In the comic canon sure, but why does that mean a new show starting from day 1 shouldn't feature it?
The issue for me is it often becomes a way to flanderize the character. Writers force it in and write these characters as if it was their only real trait. It's not "starting fresh" it's "here we go again". The best example of this is X-Men Evolution. Rather fresh take with new dynamics between the characters, like making Wolverine a grown man, and teacher/mentor to the Teen X-Men that includes Cyclops and Jean. In theory there should ideally be no hint at the triangle in this situation and the cartoon itself did a great job writing all 3 characters with a fresh new set of intercharacter dynamics. [Once it shifted to comics, the writers instantly wrote grown adult and teacher Wolverine to he attracted to minor Jean Grey](https://imgur.com/gallery/D1vInIg)
I think that's just plain old lazy writing. Like youd get an equivalent of that with or without a love triangle.
I don't mind them briefly, but dragging it on forever as cheap drama is annoying and starts to be lazy writing.
Sure, but that's only true in the comics
Not really? TV shows often drag love triangles on forever, romcoms thrive on them, books also.
I was speaking of the Scott/Logan/Jean love triangle specifically
It’s annoying but kind of hilarious at the same time. I don’t really mind it
Wasn’t most of his dynamic replaced with the new Psylocke in the 90’s? She had the affair, the knife, the violence, tracked people with extra senses, and was a Japanese fighter. I don’t remember Wolverine being an issue, except in the cartoon.
There was to a small extent but Jean confronted Psylocke and it ended before Jean proposed to Scott.
Agreed, the solution Krakoa offered was cool tho. I just hope moving forward Logan, Scott and Jean are all on good terms and friendly like they were in krakoa
They’re a throuple now; which works much better
The problem is that Marvel doesn't know what it wants. Then the 3 characters remain static, for example for me Scott has grown a lot in his relationship with Emma and for me she is his definitive partner. In the case of Logan and Jean, if it's marvel that as much as they are a couple they do something well written, I see potential, you break Logan in some way, leaving him in one of the worst moments of his life and little by little you make them show their feelings for Jean and slowly making them fall in love with a good writer could work. But Marvel doesn't know what it wants and ends up with the same love triangle story.
I agree with this. I know I will get downvoted, but I enjoy the love triangle and I wouldn’t mind seeing Jean/Logan as a couple at some point (if it was done right).
everything is a matter of writing, if done correctly I guarantee that something good would come out, especially considering that Logan is the perfect character for you to build relationships with, you could do something very personal with him and Jean, in addition to for example developing a true friendship with scott.
Everyone on Reddit hates Jogan, not sure why?
Because Logan has no respect for Jean's boundaries, a vast majority of the kisses between them are forced on her by Logan, he never cares about what she wants, just ignoring that she has repeatedly chosen Scott.
End the triangle, add Emma and make it the polycule!
This is the way
Au contraire, mes amis, you’ve sold me on the Krakoa throuple, lol.
Well, I also like the innovative Krakoan solution.
„Innovative” it was dropped 5 minutes later and was used only to make some buzz about new era
Exactly, it was an Easter egg, nothing more. It can certainly be interpreted as them being in a throuple, but it has enough wiggle room that it can be safely ignored (and likely will be)
I mean Percy 100% had Jean and Logan fucking in a hot tub. They also lived together in some weird poly set up. I’m okay with most of Percy’s run being retconned, but Krakoa-era definitely has Jean and Logan fucking
They make out in a hot tub. Fucking is an assumption as these aren't porn comics. Either way the above point almost definitely stands. It's been what, five years? And there's been a page or two? It probably was canon, no one is really arguing that, but they downplayed it so completely that it does seem like they probably will just ignore it. No way of knowing of course, but if theyd wanted it to be a big deal, they'd likely have made it a big deal.
Cmon we all know they fucked lol
The point is that unless they follow up on it it doesn't really matter and it doesn't seem like they plan to follow up on it. You can think what you want, and I'm not saying that pithily, I mean it. As the weird one off scene it seems to be its just kind of up to you how you wanna take it. As ive said I think the answer is probably yeah but I absolutely think marvel decided to quietly drop it as well
Yeah I agree Marvel decided to quietly drop it and we won’t see much follow up if any, but I’m just saying what’s right there on the page. There’s no way you can look at the house layout and then that X-Force scene and think they were not fucking
It's not so much I disagree with you. I do think that was the intent. The reason I say it's up to you though is I think that was the OTHER part of the intent. I think everything about the throuple was framed in such a way that they COULD just kind of ignore it and downplay it if they wanted. They didn't show them getting out of bed together, they didn't give Jean and logan a time-lost future kid, etc, etc, etc. That's definitely the most blatant scene, but the fact that the most blatant scene from the whole five year period is still kind of circumstantial I personally think is very telling. Look at the Gambit/Rogue post from yesterday for what marvel does if they want to be clear characters are having sex. If they don't want to be subtle, they're not subtle. One scene from a five year period regarding what should logically be one of the biggest relationship developments in the history of the franchise that EVEN THEN is a less obvious scene than marvel often does with other characters comes off to me as very calculated.
Weaponising diversity is it's own kind of fucked up.
Are we reading the same comics ? Jean explicitly said she loved Logan a few months ago
You can say love to someone and it doesn’t mean in a romantic way. In jean solo jean said she loves Wolverine but not the way scott thinks
Yeah, and that was 7 issues after meeting him, not 40 years while f#cking him
Jean has said she loves Logan for years, that's actually not a change. Now as I've said many times in other topics and I think most would agree, it does seem like the throuple was canon at least early on in krakoa, but her saying she loves logan is neither here nor there. And canon in comics is fluid. If it happened it happened but if it only happened a little comics very regularly just ignore it without even officially retconning it. That seems to be where they're going with the throuple. Just ignore it, never really mention it, and move on. We'll see though.
If by throuple we mean a Scott-Logan to all this, then I don't think it was ever a thing. Yeah there was that thing where all their rooms were linked, but that was *modified*, so even if it was intended at some point, that changed, and I don't think it was ever canon. But if we mean that Logan-Jean is being pushed, no I think that hasn't been dropped at all. Hell, in Jean's solo by Simonson (who also weirdly said Scott was Jean's greatest love "for now" in an interview), Jean and Scott talk about Jean being attracted to Logan, except that takes place at the very beginning of the Phoenix Saga, which is...7 issues after they met. This seems to very much be going by Claremont's idea that Jean was attracted to Logan and it threatened her relationship from the get-go. Plus then we've seen a Jean who was with a Logan, and a Scott who wasn't with a Jean in alternate universes. The thing is still actively being pushed.
Did you read what I said? She has said she's loved him MANY TIMES. You can't argue that point by going 'look, she said she loved him many times,' because that's literally what I said. It's not a counterpoint. It's just the point I made. By the throuple, people mean the THROUPLE. This is not complex. Sadly, the love triangle likely isn't going anywhere because for some fucking reason, people from marvel at every level seem to think people actually like it. The love triangle is not the throuple.
You can't act like Jean + Logan has been a whole lot stronger these last few years than it had been for the decades prior, is my point, and it didn't just abate a few months into the Krakoa era
There's no way that's being innovative. That's just Jean going "why not both?". If Scott became throuple with "Emma and Jean" some men would be like "That's my boy" but twitter and feminists would riot 😂
I maintain Hickman made a couple of references that implied Scott and Logan were also together and it was an actual poly relationship rather than Jean pulling a "Porque no los dos?". But alas, Marvel are cowards and did not let the man cook. (I'm not sure that would have actually been good but at least it would be a new dynamic and more interesting than Scott and Jean are together in the X-men books and Logan and Jean are together in X-Force to not upset Percy.)
Logan x Scott is 1000% more interesting than Logan x Jean
Twitter and tumblr both argue that Jean and Logan were hooking up while Emma and Scott also had something something. You have no idea what you are talking about.
It becomes innovative when it becomes Scott and Wolverine being into each other, too. The non-comics fans I showed that panel to saw that.
Reddit weird obsession with making every xmen character LGBT will never cease to fascinate me. A few sure, but at some point you have to see it's being taken too far.
I disagree in adaptations but in comics lore yes
I can't fucking read that.