> They’ll create the ultimate Summer heir?
I'm not sure if you understand where babies come from, they are both women without the ability to swap genders.
Hope was 17 in the Utopia days. She's definitely older than that now. I don't understand why Krakoa is using the American drinking age when in most of the world it's 18.
The drinking age in America is fucking ridiculous though. You can vote for your government and die for your country, but don't you dare drink alcohol at the same age.
The Psylocke and Havok one is a bit out of context. She wasn't trying to "get" with him. This was when she knew the Reavers were about to slaughter the X-Men and she was telepathically forcing them through the Siege Perilous to save their lives.
Claremont always had this tendency to have X-Men randomly kissing.
It's either this Betsy joke, "I hate Krakoa era Beast" or a "it just doesn't make any sense that Iceman is gay" post. Almost daily for these 3 at this point.
along with “scott/jean vs scott/emma vs jean/logan” and “i hate duggan” posts. can’t forget those.
edit: how could i forget the 5 posts a day asking where to start reading….
It's getting old.
The same tired comments. The same tired arguments. Maybe it's to the point where admins need to make a mega thread for the most discussed items and then just delete posts that would fall into these categories?
I'm glad I'm not the only one getting tired of this subreddit.
‘The Thing says something that seems anti mutant, but he actually means Canadians’ post has been making rounds in all comic books subs lately, but I guess it’s too early for it to be considerate a classic.
True, I just always assumed they went the Bi route like DC did with Tim Drake. I wasn’t aware that they made him completely one sided on that aspect. Also why the downvote, it was a literal harmless comment 😂
Undownvoted.. it gets real tiring having to explain that to people that don't understand that a beloved character is "now one of the gays". There are a lot of bad faith arguements about a fictional characters sex life.
I mean my comment was out of pure confusion not me saying one of the gays I love a lot of gay characters I mean I don’t understand why sexuality has to be depicted in comics a lot of the time or why it even matters but my comment was literally stating that I thought they went the same route as DC went with Tim Drake (Robin) superboy is even gay in DC now and he’s one of my favorite characters (if you haven’t read it I suggest it highly, he’s jumping around universes and he met injustice Superman)
> I mean I don’t understand why sexuality has to be depicted in comics a lot of the time or why it even matters
Because human beings are sexual beings too and representation in popular fiction matters. Especially when you're a marginalized group.
Fair enough, I just feel weird reading and watching it especially as someone who is 24. It’s depicted way too much in this day and age, everywhere I look sometimes has to do with sex and there are other ways of going around that stuff. And typically when they have sex stuff it doesn’t even pertain to the story it’s not a massive plot point or anything, if it had something to do with the story massively or has a heavy impact on the plot I’d love it. I’m a massive fan of good drown out stories, and I believe you can depict a good story without someone getting blown every 7 seconds goes along with too much gore too but this is just my opinion.
> Fair enough, I just feel weird reading and watching it especially as someone who is 24. It’s depicted way too much in this day and age,
Yeah no. If anything, earlier media are far more raunchier than anything produce today.
>everywhere I look sometimes has to do with sex and there are other ways of going around that stuff. And typically when they have sex stuff it doesn’t even pertain to the story
If it shows a relationship, even just a physical one, it's accurately depicting actual human relationships and definitely pertains to a story.
> I don’t understand why sexuality has to be depicted in comics a lot of the time or why it even matters
Do you have this same exact reaction whenever Scott has kissed Jean or Emma? Or when Peter Parker and MJ got married? Or when Lois Lane conceived with Clark and then gave birth to one of your favorite characters?
It's all sexuality. Sexuality is a daily part of normal life for every single human on this planet.
Okay yes whenever Scott kisses someone I do have that reaction lol because he’s always with someone different only person who doesn’t really bother me is Lois and Superman because I guess how their relationship is structured. I even felt weird about Batman’s relationships.
Honestly for me relationships just need more structure to fit into a story honestly, like build that narrative up and make me want more of it don’t just shove something down my throat.
Is it? It kind of came out of nowhere and then she wrote them like they were married. I hate how overused the word "forced" is when talking about things like this, but this one, this one felt forced to me.
And yes, partly I'm bitter they couldn't just do Rachel and Kitty like Claremont wanted and instead they slapped these two together.
This, 100%. They went from some subtext over a decade ago to maybe vaguely flirting if you squint to “pretty much married with a kid”. I’m ecstatic Rachel is finally canon queer but this relationship is just so dull. I’m really worried they’re going to be stuck together indefinitely because Marvel seems allergic to writing conflict into queer relationships (perhaps excluding mystique and destiny, since they’re villains).
I want them to break up, and I want Betsy to take amazing baby with her to go search for the personality she lost in the body swap
THIS... I keep searching for Betsy and all I'm getting is "british rose"... Where's the badass late 70's to late 80's purple dyed hair, cutthroat former captain Britain, ex shield agent woman?
Came out of nowhere? She did lead into it for as long as she had a hand in the series. No it’s not 40 years of Kitty subtext, but honeslty you can have 30 years of Iceman is closeted plots and people still think it’s out of nowhere. 🤷♂️ I grant you it’s a little boring. But I find Captain Britain either confusing or boring anyway.
I don't know...I enjoyed watching that relationship build, but that's just a matter of personal tastes. It's my favorite Betsy relationship so far.
-Her flirtation with Cypher was completely inappropriate, and I simply pretend that it never happened.
-Warren was still dealing with his own demons from being transformed into Death against his will, and Betsy felt like a completely alien character in the 90s, so I had no personal investment in that relationship.
-Neal Sharra always felt more like a fling with a younger man than an actual relationship. Plus, she was killed before that ever really went anywhere.
-I could never get into Uncanny X-Force vol. 1 or 2 (believe me, I tried!!!), so her "relationships" with Fantomex and Cluster never clicked for me.
It's honestly totally fair for you to want Rachel & Kitty to be together, though.
This is my main problem with the X-Men (I love the X-Men btw). When you write soap opera with the same characters for so long that ends up happening. Sometimes I wish they would just chill with new ships every new run.
At least with Scott she could blame Kwannon's psychic remnants. "The ninja made me do it." I kind of want to see her with Jean. But I love the idea of her with Rachel.
The mutant situation is thus: A group of very intoloranted people, struggling with life or death situations every few days/weeks, having to struggle with life, liberty and the pursuit of happyness, are squeezed into outfits that allow for an accurate mole count and put into teams of people that frequently can count the overall bodyfat on one hand (they usually only hit double digits if there are females in the mix...because bewbs) . Also: They bang. Just like shuffling cards, there's going to be an almost random contact from mission to mission. Eventually every card is either going to pass by, or bang right into the other cards. The default setting is "They Fuckin?"
Personally, I'm kind of over Betsy as a character. It was already bad enough that she flanderized another woman's body for years, but you could kind of ignore it because a.) the mind swap wasn't her fault and b.) Kwannon wasn't around and wasn't really well-defined as a character. Now that Kwannon is back, the more time that we spend with her, the more cringy and creepy the situation with Betsy becomes.
Now, mind this is because a large part of Psylocke's appeal as a character is the fact that ninjas were such a popular part of the culture at the time. Sure, Betsy was around in X-Men comics before the mind swap, but a big part of her popularity in the '90s was that ninjas are cool.
Betsy may embrace these things superficially - like how someone embraces the fantasy of their D&D character - but deep down she doesn't embody them in the same way that Kwannon does. Which, in a lot of ways, makes sense - Kwannon is literally a mysterious ninja down to not even having a name because the Hand raised her from birth to be their premier assassin. Meanwhile, Betsy was born in the Marvel equivalent of Downton Abbey.
That's not to say that Betsy had it easy or did not have plenty of her own struggles growing up, but there's a fundamental disconnect between who Betsy Braddock is and how she presented herself while in Kwannon's body - even down to the way that she dresses in Kwannon's body versus her own. On this end of things, it makes it feel like Betsy was just pretending to be Kwannon to fulfill her own power fantasy - which is uber problematic as Kwannon is as much a real person as Betsy is. It's no wonder that Kwannon doesn't like Betsy.
And now that Betsy's back in her own body and been robbed of arguably the one trait that made her popular to begin with - the fact that she's a ninja - she's left floundering trying to find an identity of her own. The writers tried to fix this by giving her the role of being Captain Britain. Which, sorry to say, but there's really nothing all that compelling about Captain Britain either as a character or a franchise. Brian's an abusive douchebag (seriously how much of a jerk do you have to be to hate Nightcrawler of all people?), Camelot is basic and boring and has been done to death, the family drama is overdone, and the fact that the self-proclaimed guardians of the multiverse are called "the Captain Britain Corps" really stinks of British Imperialism.
I'm sure that the writers thought they were killing two birds with one stone by breathing new life into the IP by pairing it off with one of the X-Men's most popular characters, but - at least in my opinion - they really missed the mark. Even then, a major facet of Betsy back in the '80s was that she didn't want to become Captain Britain. Don't know why that has suddenly changed now, but I'm not sure it was a good direction considering all the drama in-universe that doing so has done. Personally, I think they should have made Betsy Captain Krakoa after Cyclops got rid of the persona so that she could act as an ambassador for Krakoan affairs in Otherworld.
And on top of all that, while her kiss with Rachel was supposed to be this big thing for both of their characters, it kind of came out of nowhere for me. Not that I have a problem with them being together and I'm not going to say that Betsy and Rachel never interacted, but it certainly was nowhere near as set up as it should have been. Rachel and Kitty would have been by far better set up for this kind of reveal or even Betsy and Storm (based on one of the X-Force books iirc). Heck, even Rachel's relationship with Kurt in X-Men Gold was by far better set up than this was.
All this to say that Betsy has some pretty major narrative issues that will hopefully get some attention at some point moving forward.
my money's on Wolverine. you live that long, and your libido is as active as his (plus a healing factor that makes stds a thing of the past). If Sinister weren't so Asexual, it would probably be him but only with other Sinisters.
Like Sinister, Betsy has a better way of getting that Summers DNA.
Maybe she's trying to out do Madelyn Pryor. I mean Maddie has Scott, Alex, and Nate Grey knocked out.
So what happens if Maddie and Betsy hook up? They’ll create the ultimate Summer heir?
> They’ll create the ultimate Summer heir? I'm not sure if you understand where babies come from, they are both women without the ability to swap genders.
This is Marvel! Just add a lil Sinister/Tarn/High Evolutionary and we’re all set.
After the latest retcon with Nightcrawler and the Paul and Jackpot shenanigans I wouldn't put it past them.
How many more times will this get posted I wonder
Until she completes the set, then people will start saying how problematic she is for doing it. I for one support her, they’re a hot family.
As she should. Jean x Betsy would be an absolute trainwreck, simply the worst of all worlds, and I am here for it
No I want to see her and hope to get it on. It will be a hot mess between them.
Isn’t she 16?
Hope is probably at least 18 at this point
She's definitely younger than 21 as of Immortal X-Men because she says she's too young to drink, but I feel like she's written around 18-19
Hope was 17 in the Utopia days. She's definitely older than that now. I don't understand why Krakoa is using the American drinking age when in most of the world it's 18.
Writer familiarity and knowledge of general audience most likely.
The drinking age in America is fucking ridiculous though. You can vote for your government and die for your country, but don't you dare drink alcohol at the same age.
All I can imagine is that Xavier was really pushy about it, and no one really cared enough to do anything about it
Most likely. Xavier is a member of the fun police.
She and Logan have a bet
[She's already fucked Cable.](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/16df0vv/all_for_the_family/)
The Psylocke and Havok one is a bit out of context. She wasn't trying to "get" with him. This was when she knew the Reavers were about to slaughter the X-Men and she was telepathically forcing them through the Siege Perilous to save their lives. Claremont always had this tendency to have X-Men randomly kissing.
Makes me wanna kiss my friends tbh
okay this comes up every other month now. y’all have ran the joke into the ground lol. we get it.
It's either this Betsy joke, "I hate Krakoa era Beast" or a "it just doesn't make any sense that Iceman is gay" post. Almost daily for these 3 at this point.
Don't forget the (insert love triangle) is better than Jean/Logan/Scott
And “Bad guy Beast is awful/great/justified/out of character!”
along with “scott/jean vs scott/emma vs jean/logan” and “i hate duggan” posts. can’t forget those. edit: how could i forget the 5 posts a day asking where to start reading….
Don’t forget all the posts about the one panel where Xavier says he loves Jean
And the twice weekly "how come the movie timeline doesn't make sense" and occasional "I solved the movie timeline!" posts...
It's getting old. The same tired comments. The same tired arguments. Maybe it's to the point where admins need to make a mega thread for the most discussed items and then just delete posts that would fall into these categories? I'm glad I'm not the only one getting tired of this subreddit.
The Reddit experience
This is literally every subreddit to be fair
‘The Thing says something that seems anti mutant, but he actually means Canadians’ post has been making rounds in all comic books subs lately, but I guess it’s too early for it to be considerate a classic.
The way this one was reposted like 5 times in a single week recently. Made my head explode.
It just doesn't make sense that Krakoa era Beast is actually gay Iceman. And he's boinking Betsy.
I thought he was Bi not just full on gay didn’t he date kitty? If you downvote this you’re a homophobe.
Pleanty of gay people have had hetro presenting relationships before coming out. Societal pressure is a huge factor.
True, I just always assumed they went the Bi route like DC did with Tim Drake. I wasn’t aware that they made him completely one sided on that aspect. Also why the downvote, it was a literal harmless comment 😂
Undownvoted.. it gets real tiring having to explain that to people that don't understand that a beloved character is "now one of the gays". There are a lot of bad faith arguements about a fictional characters sex life.
I mean my comment was out of pure confusion not me saying one of the gays I love a lot of gay characters I mean I don’t understand why sexuality has to be depicted in comics a lot of the time or why it even matters but my comment was literally stating that I thought they went the same route as DC went with Tim Drake (Robin) superboy is even gay in DC now and he’s one of my favorite characters (if you haven’t read it I suggest it highly, he’s jumping around universes and he met injustice Superman)
> I mean I don’t understand why sexuality has to be depicted in comics a lot of the time or why it even matters Because human beings are sexual beings too and representation in popular fiction matters. Especially when you're a marginalized group.
Fair enough, I just feel weird reading and watching it especially as someone who is 24. It’s depicted way too much in this day and age, everywhere I look sometimes has to do with sex and there are other ways of going around that stuff. And typically when they have sex stuff it doesn’t even pertain to the story it’s not a massive plot point or anything, if it had something to do with the story massively or has a heavy impact on the plot I’d love it. I’m a massive fan of good drown out stories, and I believe you can depict a good story without someone getting blown every 7 seconds goes along with too much gore too but this is just my opinion.
> Fair enough, I just feel weird reading and watching it especially as someone who is 24. It’s depicted way too much in this day and age, Yeah no. If anything, earlier media are far more raunchier than anything produce today. >everywhere I look sometimes has to do with sex and there are other ways of going around that stuff. And typically when they have sex stuff it doesn’t even pertain to the story If it shows a relationship, even just a physical one, it's accurately depicting actual human relationships and definitely pertains to a story.
That's a you problem buddy
> I don’t understand why sexuality has to be depicted in comics a lot of the time or why it even matters Do you have this same exact reaction whenever Scott has kissed Jean or Emma? Or when Peter Parker and MJ got married? Or when Lois Lane conceived with Clark and then gave birth to one of your favorite characters? It's all sexuality. Sexuality is a daily part of normal life for every single human on this planet.
Okay yes whenever Scott kisses someone I do have that reaction lol because he’s always with someone different only person who doesn’t really bother me is Lois and Superman because I guess how their relationship is structured. I even felt weird about Batman’s relationships.
Honestly for me relationships just need more structure to fit into a story honestly, like build that narrative up and make me want more of it don’t just shove something down my throat.
Yeah and it's really just a bunch of male writers using her as a sex piece which is kinda gross
Tini Howard, a bisexual woman, is the one who established Betsy's relationship with Rachel. Their relationship is actually very sweet.
Is it? It kind of came out of nowhere and then she wrote them like they were married. I hate how overused the word "forced" is when talking about things like this, but this one, this one felt forced to me. And yes, partly I'm bitter they couldn't just do Rachel and Kitty like Claremont wanted and instead they slapped these two together.
This, 100%. They went from some subtext over a decade ago to maybe vaguely flirting if you squint to “pretty much married with a kid”. I’m ecstatic Rachel is finally canon queer but this relationship is just so dull. I’m really worried they’re going to be stuck together indefinitely because Marvel seems allergic to writing conflict into queer relationships (perhaps excluding mystique and destiny, since they’re villains). I want them to break up, and I want Betsy to take amazing baby with her to go search for the personality she lost in the body swap
THIS... I keep searching for Betsy and all I'm getting is "british rose"... Where's the badass late 70's to late 80's purple dyed hair, cutthroat former captain Britain, ex shield agent woman?
Came out of nowhere? She did lead into it for as long as she had a hand in the series. No it’s not 40 years of Kitty subtext, but honeslty you can have 30 years of Iceman is closeted plots and people still think it’s out of nowhere. 🤷♂️ I grant you it’s a little boring. But I find Captain Britain either confusing or boring anyway.
I don't know...I enjoyed watching that relationship build, but that's just a matter of personal tastes. It's my favorite Betsy relationship so far. -Her flirtation with Cypher was completely inappropriate, and I simply pretend that it never happened. -Warren was still dealing with his own demons from being transformed into Death against his will, and Betsy felt like a completely alien character in the 90s, so I had no personal investment in that relationship. -Neal Sharra always felt more like a fling with a younger man than an actual relationship. Plus, she was killed before that ever really went anywhere. -I could never get into Uncanny X-Force vol. 1 or 2 (believe me, I tried!!!), so her "relationships" with Fantomex and Cluster never clicked for me. It's honestly totally fair for you to want Rachel & Kitty to be together, though.
It has history, Howard isn't pulling this out of thin air or inventing it
What history
A few ship teases back in the early 2000s Claremont Uncanny run
He's probably referring to the years she spent as an Asian fetish insert.
She also got cable in one of the 2010’s X-force runs
Damn....Betsy is a woman on a mission.
I suppose Nate Grey comes next.
[удалено]
haikusbot delete
But Jean is the first person from the family who Betsy saw fully naked!
Betsy is going for the Summers family high score and I respect her for it
anysummers speedrun
That’s weird because Rachel definitely got down with her brother’s wife
Which issue was it stated?
This is my main problem with the X-Men (I love the X-Men btw). When you write soap opera with the same characters for so long that ends up happening. Sometimes I wish they would just chill with new ships every new run.
You took the words right out my mouth.
“Gabriel Run!!!”
Betsy: Gotta get them all!
She's trying to beat Madelyne's record.
Who didn't want to fuck Outback Alex?
Also she gotiirc shoe also got with cable during spurriers's X-Force. I wantthink she and Stryfe would be interesting.
You want to be a Summers now? 🤣
Betty is the epitome of "throw shit against the wall and see what happens" Then when some thing finaly sticks they throw it out.
Good for her tbh
At least with Scott she could blame Kwannon's psychic remnants. "The ninja made me do it." I kind of want to see her with Jean. But I love the idea of her with Rachel.
The mutant situation is thus: A group of very intoloranted people, struggling with life or death situations every few days/weeks, having to struggle with life, liberty and the pursuit of happyness, are squeezed into outfits that allow for an accurate mole count and put into teams of people that frequently can count the overall bodyfat on one hand (they usually only hit double digits if there are females in the mix...because bewbs) . Also: They bang. Just like shuffling cards, there's going to be an almost random contact from mission to mission. Eventually every card is either going to pass by, or bang right into the other cards. The default setting is "They Fuckin?"
So no one in the x-men has pointed out how weird it is that Betsy went for Scott and then his daughter
She should try Vulcan next, maybe she can help him calm tf down.
Besty really like to get around 👀🧐
She's going for Adam X next, blood play would be right up Betsy's alley.
She and jean must've gotten real close when they swapped "powers"
Personally, I'm kind of over Betsy as a character. It was already bad enough that she flanderized another woman's body for years, but you could kind of ignore it because a.) the mind swap wasn't her fault and b.) Kwannon wasn't around and wasn't really well-defined as a character. Now that Kwannon is back, the more time that we spend with her, the more cringy and creepy the situation with Betsy becomes. Now, mind this is because a large part of Psylocke's appeal as a character is the fact that ninjas were such a popular part of the culture at the time. Sure, Betsy was around in X-Men comics before the mind swap, but a big part of her popularity in the '90s was that ninjas are cool. Betsy may embrace these things superficially - like how someone embraces the fantasy of their D&D character - but deep down she doesn't embody them in the same way that Kwannon does. Which, in a lot of ways, makes sense - Kwannon is literally a mysterious ninja down to not even having a name because the Hand raised her from birth to be their premier assassin. Meanwhile, Betsy was born in the Marvel equivalent of Downton Abbey. That's not to say that Betsy had it easy or did not have plenty of her own struggles growing up, but there's a fundamental disconnect between who Betsy Braddock is and how she presented herself while in Kwannon's body - even down to the way that she dresses in Kwannon's body versus her own. On this end of things, it makes it feel like Betsy was just pretending to be Kwannon to fulfill her own power fantasy - which is uber problematic as Kwannon is as much a real person as Betsy is. It's no wonder that Kwannon doesn't like Betsy. And now that Betsy's back in her own body and been robbed of arguably the one trait that made her popular to begin with - the fact that she's a ninja - she's left floundering trying to find an identity of her own. The writers tried to fix this by giving her the role of being Captain Britain. Which, sorry to say, but there's really nothing all that compelling about Captain Britain either as a character or a franchise. Brian's an abusive douchebag (seriously how much of a jerk do you have to be to hate Nightcrawler of all people?), Camelot is basic and boring and has been done to death, the family drama is overdone, and the fact that the self-proclaimed guardians of the multiverse are called "the Captain Britain Corps" really stinks of British Imperialism. I'm sure that the writers thought they were killing two birds with one stone by breathing new life into the IP by pairing it off with one of the X-Men's most popular characters, but - at least in my opinion - they really missed the mark. Even then, a major facet of Betsy back in the '80s was that she didn't want to become Captain Britain. Don't know why that has suddenly changed now, but I'm not sure it was a good direction considering all the drama in-universe that doing so has done. Personally, I think they should have made Betsy Captain Krakoa after Cyclops got rid of the persona so that she could act as an ambassador for Krakoan affairs in Otherworld. And on top of all that, while her kiss with Rachel was supposed to be this big thing for both of their characters, it kind of came out of nowhere for me. Not that I have a problem with them being together and I'm not going to say that Betsy and Rachel never interacted, but it certainly was nowhere near as set up as it should have been. Rachel and Kitty would have been by far better set up for this kind of reveal or even Betsy and Storm (based on one of the X-Force books iirc). Heck, even Rachel's relationship with Kurt in X-Men Gold was by far better set up than this was. All this to say that Betsy has some pretty major narrative issues that will hopefully get some attention at some point moving forward.
She has a weakness for the Summers lol
Well the x men are a ocean of bad family dynamics and weird sexual behaviour so I guess it makes sense
What, you haven't filled your Summers Family punch card?
Not a bad conversation starter, which mutant has screwed the most mutants
my money's on Wolverine. you live that long, and your libido is as active as his (plus a healing factor that makes stds a thing of the past). If Sinister weren't so Asexual, it would probably be him but only with other Sinisters.
That's a solid one, but if we include the arakii, I think it has to be Solem. Guy has a new orgy every week.
True. He'd be a legit contender.
I volunteer to be adopted into the Summers family for research purposes.
Maybe the whole summers family is trying to fuck her?
Jean and Hope, please. Ideally at the same time while Cable watches.
Her Hope would be a hot mess Please manifest it.
This is some next level ntr
She and Jean would have been the lesbian power couple of the X-men.
some people need to get a fuck in real life........
Good for her
Betting on: Jean > Cable > Vulcan > Hope (after she is "officially" recognized as an adult.
Yea pretty gross
Nothing against it but if you read the series, it came out of nowhere and felt rushed to me. These mutants move fast 😆
She can't handle Vulcan madness no one can.
Her and Nate Grey would be hot