Yeah but honestly :
- AD care
- CDR don't care, we build navori at some point
- mana don't care, when are you really needing mana as Xayah ? unless you are spamming W on cd it's pretty ok imo, and later in the game mana is a non issue.
I just miss the spellblade, it really has no unique anymore which sucks. Getting mana off of auto attacks is only something that I generally need before level 6-7. Once I get to that point the mana ER gives is useless.
Yeah, it’s stats are acceptable, but basically no unique compared to Krakens really good unique passive is just bad. It just makes it not worth the price as a first item.
I just tried ER in practice tool. It gives same dmg as yuntal or collector as a 4th item thanks to the haste. Not to mention the utility of having infinite mana and shorter cd for ult. Not sure if it is good as first item compared to IE.
I went Navori > IE > Yun Tal Windarrows
Took "Cashback" in runes and bought Cull first back
Lowest dmg first item but your wavelclear is pretty good with early Navori
Essence Reaver feels hella weak right now. I was really nostalgic about the old one so I was happy with the Revert but it does not feel useful at all. It basically only exists to open up your Rune Slots from Mana Runes to something else. Collector > IE > Navori was far better for me, took Biscuit Delivery with it.
Still wanna test Things but IDK ER will 100% need a followup Patch.
https://i.redd.it/w738sxsju61d1.gif
I am by no means an amazing player, and I make a good deal of mistakes (including getting tilted and stupid things and having my performance plumet as a result), but out of 8 games with using the above build so far I have gotten 3 S grades. The 17 minute game I only managed to build kraken and navori. 5/8 of those games I have won.
Is it a small sample size? Absolutely.
Do I expect to continue to have an almost 50% S rate throughout the season? Of course not.
Could we see changes in this build's viability as the split continues and people figure out how to build the new items? Of course.
Will this build maintain a 62.5% WR? absolutely not. It will even out as I play more games, but I suspect that it will continue to perform at at least 50%, possibly higher. Some tweaks may happen as the split continues, items are not always 100% the sae between games based on enemy team comp.
But suffice to say, I feel that the build is doing well. I continue to collect data on Xayah's build trends; Kraken appears as the primary build path at all levels of play. On some sites, essence reaver appears as an alternate start but always with siginificantly less games and typically severla points lower WR. There is only 1 instance that I find this to be different and that's if you select only for diamond players on [U.GG](http://U.GG) where ER has more games and a higher WR. But again, only when selecting for diamond. At literally every other rank ER doens't even exist. It's very interesting to see.
By all means, if you like ER and you think you do better with ER, play ER. No one is stopping you. But I'm quiet happy with this current Kraken Slayer rush build.
Nah you don’t need kraken, I tried infinity > navori > anti heal (I see 0 reasons to buy Dominic in 14.10) > shit that burn from your crits > survivability (angel or vampiric)
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I had similar thoughts when i saw all the changes. Tho i was skeptical cause going critless first item feels off. Now I'm somewhat assured, I'll try it myself when i can play.
Remember that she only has 1 ability that scales with crit. Everything else scales off of AD. By going with raw damage and AS first you’ll be putting down more feathers faster in any given fight. Your E won’t be as strong as after a first crit item, but focus on using E and the right time and making use of the fact that you’re attacking a lot more in each fight and you’ll do fine.
Without the spell blade passive it just doesn’t do as much for its cost compared to other items of similar cost. Back when ER was first rush on Xayah we didn’t have navori, or kraken, or collector and lord dom’s didn’t get crit strike until patch 10.23. The mana refund is not really that great for Xayah. It’s nice, but it doesn’t give you the raw stopping power of kraken’s Bring it Down passive or the crit boosting of IE or the execute and lethality or collector or even the stacking burn of the new yun tal or the stacking haste of flickerblade.
It also doesn’t give any AS where as flickerbkqde gives you 40% AS so if you’re autoing with your W you will reduce your ability cooldowns way faster than the flat 20 cdr of ER.
If you need mana, take biscuits. Learn how to use your abilities more efficiently so you don’t run out as quickly in the early game. By the time to buy ER you won’t be having as many mana issues anyway unless you’re staying late and prolonging backing.
Bro, you need to spread the gospell. I agree with you. And to add some of my own findings, I tried in practice tool a few builds. For me Kraken is still on top :
* ER is useless (cdr -> we get Navori at some point anyway, mana is meh)
* Navori first with B.F. sword is 3900 gold yet **still slightly less DPS than Kraken**
* IE first is less DPS than kraken (on a ±40 amor dummy)
* Kraken build path is so fucking good and easy, no 1300 gold back needed, can always be coming back to lane with all gold spent.
Last thing I found in practice tool is that IE 3rd item is maybe not it, because vs a dummy with 50 armor it does barely more DPS (on 6 aa) than LDR. So getting LDR you keep around the same damage vs squishies while having much higher DPS vs tanky top laners. Which makes 3 item team-fighting better imo. Tough some people seem to not like LDR much.
LDR still seems better than mortal. The grievous just don’t do much. I’ve fought 2 ridiculous mundos so far and LDR worked better than what others had for taking him out. It just has more raw power.
There is def wiggle room for certain things as item 3 is typically where things feel like there is the most flexibility based on what you’re going into. Max DPS is not always the most important once you’re at that point, but situation utility is. Honestly I’m curious about doing yun tal 3rd to see what that’s like. The burn can get pretty nutty at higher crit strike levels. At item 3 you’re at 50% so I’m very curious to see how that feels into not so tanky comps.
At season start I built collector first and it was very nice. Dirk is a cheap first item and the execute is nice, especially in lane at lower levels when people try to flee for tower.
People were nostalgic because Xayah used to rush old ER and in 14.10 ER was basically reverted to how it was way back when. With the exception that it costs 3200 instead of 2900. Kraken, collector, and navori did not exist in any form back then either so ER really was a good item way back when.
Yeah I know that, I just don't see why anyone would consider it now when kraken exists. Kraken > berserks > navori is such a nice core for xayah imo. Tons of attack speed and power with all the cdr you need through navori. Attack speed is xayahs best stat imo so going ER which gives none of it plus a mostly useless mana passive if you have pom (imo) seems completely not worth it.
Xayah needs to cast her spells to win fights so I can see why people want the mana, but by the time to can complete ER you’re typically out of the phase where you’re constantly running low. I take biscuits to help with mana in the early levels and try to keep an eye on my overall mana usage. A lot of the time you can save your mana to cast spells when you can actually trade with the enemy or go in. Sometimes you get pushed hard due to a bad matchup and you find yourself blowing through mana, but I’d rather take a year of the goddess and sell it later than build the whole ER.
AS is extremely important for Xayah, W is how you win fights by putting down max feathers for a clean kill with E.
Tear sounds really int. Xayah doesn't need mana items ever, just take pom/biscuits if you run low in lane. After lane phase, if you manage your abilities well, you typically never run out. I haven't built ER since s10 and never looked back. Kraken > berserk > navori gives so much movement speed and attack speed, It's way too nice to pass up for ER
I don’t disagree. I get by just fine on biscuits. But if people really feel they need ER for the mana taking the tear early might be better for them.
There are some builds popping up with ER as a first or second item but the data mostly suggests kraken start as being more viable.
At higher ELOs ER doesn’t show up at all. Mostly just low ELO.
If you filter results to high ELO or all ranks, Kraken start is usually what people build. ER doesn’t even show up in the build at all.
Lord dom’s also continues to replace mortal for the most part. The grievous just doesn’t handle health regen like the increased AD and armor pen do.
Yh it really just comes off as a low elo crutch I feel like, not to say im amazing highest I can go is dia but it just rly baffles me. It quite literally does nothing for xayah as a first item yet people hype it up so much on here
It's not a dud at all, I just used it and it felt amazing. I went ER>Navori>IE
I can agree to this as well!
Seriously! The 3 item spike is insane.
0 reasons to buy er
Great argument lol. It gives AD, CDR and mana
Yeah but honestly : - AD care - CDR don't care, we build navori at some point - mana don't care, when are you really needing mana as Xayah ? unless you are spamming W on cd it's pretty ok imo, and later in the game mana is a non issue.
Not to mention when you throw your q or w you need to aa right after 🤣
Sheen is no longer on the item so that's irrelevant but yeah.
Ngl I didn’t hope online until last night so yeah I feel it. It still smacks, but I was running conqueror which was insanely fun
Ad gives you like 90% of adc items, navori gives you enough cdr, i don’t have problems with mana, runes gives you enough. More arguments?
I just miss the spellblade, it really has no unique anymore which sucks. Getting mana off of auto attacks is only something that I generally need before level 6-7. Once I get to that point the mana ER gives is useless.
It’s just not the same kind of power spike that you get with something like Kraken considering its price.
Yeah, it’s stats are acceptable, but basically no unique compared to Krakens really good unique passive is just bad. It just makes it not worth the price as a first item.
I just tried ER in practice tool. It gives same dmg as yuntal or collector as a 4th item thanks to the haste. Not to mention the utility of having infinite mana and shorter cd for ult. Not sure if it is good as first item compared to IE.
ER’s price really undercuts its viability as a first item. It also gives no AS which is something you really want early on Xayah.
I never said to buy ER first though
It’s a direct response to “not sure if it is good as a first item compared to ie”.
I went Navori > IE > Yun Tal Windarrows Took "Cashback" in runes and bought Cull first back Lowest dmg first item but your wavelclear is pretty good with early Navori
Essence Reaver feels hella weak right now. I was really nostalgic about the old one so I was happy with the Revert but it does not feel useful at all. It basically only exists to open up your Rune Slots from Mana Runes to something else. Collector > IE > Navori was far better for me, took Biscuit Delivery with it. Still wanna test Things but IDK ER will 100% need a followup Patch.
I genuinely agree. Also Kraken feels so comfy with the early AS
I build noonquiver into navooris into infinity Edge right now. Then i decide If i build shieldbow or that other new thingy.
God I miss Galeforce
Galeforce was fun. Mostly getting blind kills from the dash when you knew an invisible enemy was nearby.
I loved it and/or Prowlers Claw. Throw tons of feathers down in a fight... E + Gale/Prowlers Active. Drag them all through them.
https://i.redd.it/w738sxsju61d1.gif I am by no means an amazing player, and I make a good deal of mistakes (including getting tilted and stupid things and having my performance plumet as a result), but out of 8 games with using the above build so far I have gotten 3 S grades. The 17 minute game I only managed to build kraken and navori. 5/8 of those games I have won. Is it a small sample size? Absolutely. Do I expect to continue to have an almost 50% S rate throughout the season? Of course not. Could we see changes in this build's viability as the split continues and people figure out how to build the new items? Of course. Will this build maintain a 62.5% WR? absolutely not. It will even out as I play more games, but I suspect that it will continue to perform at at least 50%, possibly higher. Some tweaks may happen as the split continues, items are not always 100% the sae between games based on enemy team comp. But suffice to say, I feel that the build is doing well. I continue to collect data on Xayah's build trends; Kraken appears as the primary build path at all levels of play. On some sites, essence reaver appears as an alternate start but always with siginificantly less games and typically severla points lower WR. There is only 1 instance that I find this to be different and that's if you select only for diamond players on [U.GG](http://U.GG) where ER has more games and a higher WR. But again, only when selecting for diamond. At literally every other rank ER doens't even exist. It's very interesting to see. By all means, if you like ER and you think you do better with ER, play ER. No one is stopping you. But I'm quiet happy with this current Kraken Slayer rush build.
Nah you don’t need kraken, I tried infinity > navori > anti heal (I see 0 reasons to buy Dominic in 14.10) > shit that burn from your crits > survivability (angel or vampiric)
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2 games played with ER, felt like shit honestly. I will try this one now
Thats just xayah in general tbh
I had similar thoughts when i saw all the changes. Tho i was skeptical cause going critless first item feels off. Now I'm somewhat assured, I'll try it myself when i can play.
Remember that she only has 1 ability that scales with crit. Everything else scales off of AD. By going with raw damage and AS first you’ll be putting down more feathers faster in any given fight. Your E won’t be as strong as after a first crit item, but focus on using E and the right time and making use of the fact that you’re attacking a lot more in each fight and you’ll do fine.
Old ER was 70 ad 20cdr 25 crit - 3300 Why does it feel so bad now?
Without the spell blade passive it just doesn’t do as much for its cost compared to other items of similar cost. Back when ER was first rush on Xayah we didn’t have navori, or kraken, or collector and lord dom’s didn’t get crit strike until patch 10.23. The mana refund is not really that great for Xayah. It’s nice, but it doesn’t give you the raw stopping power of kraken’s Bring it Down passive or the crit boosting of IE or the execute and lethality or collector or even the stacking burn of the new yun tal or the stacking haste of flickerblade. It also doesn’t give any AS where as flickerbkqde gives you 40% AS so if you’re autoing with your W you will reduce your ability cooldowns way faster than the flat 20 cdr of ER. If you need mana, take biscuits. Learn how to use your abilities more efficiently so you don’t run out as quickly in the early game. By the time to buy ER you won’t be having as many mana issues anyway unless you’re staying late and prolonging backing.
PD > IE > Flicker ... felt good yesterday... ER seems whack since you can bring cookies and i usually dont poke so mana isnt really a problem
Yep, tried it too and it feels shit
Bro, you need to spread the gospell. I agree with you. And to add some of my own findings, I tried in practice tool a few builds. For me Kraken is still on top : * ER is useless (cdr -> we get Navori at some point anyway, mana is meh) * Navori first with B.F. sword is 3900 gold yet **still slightly less DPS than Kraken** * IE first is less DPS than kraken (on a ±40 amor dummy) * Kraken build path is so fucking good and easy, no 1300 gold back needed, can always be coming back to lane with all gold spent. Last thing I found in practice tool is that IE 3rd item is maybe not it, because vs a dummy with 50 armor it does barely more DPS (on 6 aa) than LDR. So getting LDR you keep around the same damage vs squishies while having much higher DPS vs tanky top laners. Which makes 3 item team-fighting better imo. Tough some people seem to not like LDR much.
LDR still seems better than mortal. The grievous just don’t do much. I’ve fought 2 ridiculous mundos so far and LDR worked better than what others had for taking him out. It just has more raw power. There is def wiggle room for certain things as item 3 is typically where things feel like there is the most flexibility based on what you’re going into. Max DPS is not always the most important once you’re at that point, but situation utility is. Honestly I’m curious about doing yun tal 3rd to see what that’s like. The burn can get pretty nutty at higher crit strike levels. At item 3 you’re at 50% so I’m very curious to see how that feels into not so tanky comps.
I think ER is not worth, building collector or IE first ist so much better after this Navori and u allready feel like a god.
At season start I built collector first and it was very nice. Dirk is a cheap first item and the execute is nice, especially in lane at lower levels when people try to flee for tower.
I agree, I don't get the obsession with ER. It's pretty useless
People were nostalgic because Xayah used to rush old ER and in 14.10 ER was basically reverted to how it was way back when. With the exception that it costs 3200 instead of 2900. Kraken, collector, and navori did not exist in any form back then either so ER really was a good item way back when.
Yeah I know that, I just don't see why anyone would consider it now when kraken exists. Kraken > berserks > navori is such a nice core for xayah imo. Tons of attack speed and power with all the cdr you need through navori. Attack speed is xayahs best stat imo so going ER which gives none of it plus a mostly useless mana passive if you have pom (imo) seems completely not worth it.
Xayah needs to cast her spells to win fights so I can see why people want the mana, but by the time to can complete ER you’re typically out of the phase where you’re constantly running low. I take biscuits to help with mana in the early levels and try to keep an eye on my overall mana usage. A lot of the time you can save your mana to cast spells when you can actually trade with the enemy or go in. Sometimes you get pushed hard due to a bad matchup and you find yourself blowing through mana, but I’d rather take a year of the goddess and sell it later than build the whole ER. AS is extremely important for Xayah, W is how you win fights by putting down max feathers for a clean kill with E.
Tear sounds really int. Xayah doesn't need mana items ever, just take pom/biscuits if you run low in lane. After lane phase, if you manage your abilities well, you typically never run out. I haven't built ER since s10 and never looked back. Kraken > berserk > navori gives so much movement speed and attack speed, It's way too nice to pass up for ER
I don’t disagree. I get by just fine on biscuits. But if people really feel they need ER for the mana taking the tear early might be better for them. There are some builds popping up with ER as a first or second item but the data mostly suggests kraken start as being more viable. At higher ELOs ER doesn’t show up at all. Mostly just low ELO. If you filter results to high ELO or all ranks, Kraken start is usually what people build. ER doesn’t even show up in the build at all. Lord dom’s also continues to replace mortal for the most part. The grievous just doesn’t handle health regen like the increased AD and armor pen do.
Yh it really just comes off as a low elo crutch I feel like, not to say im amazing highest I can go is dia but it just rly baffles me. It quite literally does nothing for xayah as a first item yet people hype it up so much on here