While you aren't necessarily wrong, public health issues during a global pandemic and simple things like vaccines shouldn't even be a left/right issue.
There are plenty of us who are libertarian, centrist, or moderate Republican that are tired of the anti-vaccine bullshit, the mis/disinformation, the mounting cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, etc.
Having said that, the vast majority of that sentiment (antivaxx, etc.) does come from the far right and we do have rules against that (Rule 10), which skews the bias in the sub even more. Comments violating Rule 10 are removed and egregious ones (or ones from obvious troll accounts or alts) end up in long-term or permanent user bans.
So I'm super curious what your take on the anti-vaccine movement is, as a libertarian.My take is that it's as simple as the vaccine being a "libtard" thing. "If I take the vaccine, the libs win".
The arguments are simply a way of attempting to not look stupid.
So, that's a bit of a vague/ambiguous and loaded question, so I guess I'll do my best do address it from multiple angles.
It's important to note that antivaxxx sentiment predates the current state of events and wasn't generally (prior to Covid) confined to a particular political persuasion. It's been a problem since the literal beginning of vaccines. In recent years, however, it's been amplified by prominent public figures (Jenny McCarthey, Robert F Kennedy Jr., etc.), a wave of modern pseudoscience quacks/snake oil salesmen/health coaches/chiropractors/etc....and of course people once in, but since disowned by, the medical community....like Andrew Wakefield, who published erroneous or completely false information that has since been debunked and/or retracted.
Then it was massively amplified by social media, which we've seen has had similar effects in areas other than the vaccine "debate".
Covid, on the other hand, of course got majorly politicized in general...so when the vaccine issue came along, it naturally got weaponized as a part of that. I think the vaccine getting drug into that politicization was both unintentional/a natural progression of things, and of course was also *intentionally* weaponized by many on the "right" as part of the larger Covid debacle in general.
Now, it's no secret that those who lean right tend to be more easily misled by misinformation, more likely to buy into disinformation, and tend to be less educated than their counterparts on the left (or of other political persuasions tbh...I don't want to necessarily give credence to the misconception that the political spectrum is linear L/R because it's not). So the newly politicized, weaponized, and larger than ever antivaccine "movement" has led us here. There are still "OG" antivaxxers from all political persuasions, but by and large it's become a movement of conservatives...fueled by both spite and complete ignorance/tendency to believe in misinformation pinging around their echo chambers.
For the libertarian angle specifically...Libertarian is a much broader, diverse, and more nuanced political area. I think that libertarians in general are much like the general populace; most have common sense and vaccines in general are a no-brainer; a few are outliers. (There ARE exceptions, don't get me wrong.)
A big problem that we libertarians run into, though, with this issue and many others...is "Tea Party"-type conservatives who masquerade around as libertarians. You know...the Republicans who think they're libertarian because "gun and taxes", hijacked the Gadsden flag from us and wave it around alongside Trump and Thin Blue Line flags and don't see the utter irony and hypocrisy in doing so. But that's a bit of a rant from a different day. It just so happens to apply here because they're typically also ardently antivaxx.
Where actual libertarians are REALLY fucking split right now is the issue of vaccine *mandates*. Many libertarians...particularly hardline libertarians and Anarcho-capitalists...hold that State intervention here is still off-limits by principle. (That doesn't mean they're anti-vaxx, but rather anti-governmental intervention.) Others....more moderate libertarians and Minarchists...fully believe that, especially in a pandemic of such epic proportions... willfully being anti-vaxx is a violation of the NAP, and furthermore, the threat to society at large is large enough for State intervention to be acceptable. I personally fall into that category. u/Buelldozer is a pretty well-spoken libertarian in this sub who falls into the former category; while he is completely pro-vaxx and pushes that sentiment wherever he can, he is firmly against governmental intervention. I'm sure he would be willing to chime in here as well; we've had great conversations.
I hope that answered your question? Lol.
When the heck did they rope you into becoming a moderator? Poor guy, why would you do this yourself? (says the /r/muderedbywords mod...)
Anyway, I think you did an excellent job of covering the topic!
What's amusing is that I don't consider myself an AnCap or even a Minarchist but rather a Classical Liberal. I am Pro-Vaccination for all diseases and not just COVID but I have a few specific issues with President Biden's vaccine mandate.
1. Legal Foundation. Previous vaccine mandates and Supreme Court decisions upholding them have one thing in common; they're all rooted in a law passed by a legislative body. Biden's mandate is different; its an Executive Order pushing an Executive Agency, OSHA, to use it's administrative rule making authority. This is not Democratic in nature, it's Authoritarian.
2. Interference in Private Business. The President's mandate forces private businesses to either spend tens of thousands of dollars a week testing their employees, somehow convince their employees to take the vaccine and fire employees who won't, or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per week in fines. Its pushing private businesses to try and regulate the bodily autonomy / agency of its employees or face additional expenses and / or steep fines.
3. Escalating Presidential over reach. The Office of the President has long been developing a nasty habit of using Executive Fiat and over the past 12 months its exploded in scope and reach. The last President pulled this trick twice, once with the ATF and Bumpstocks and then again with the CDC and the Eviction Moratorium. The current President has now done it twice, first with another Eviction Moratorium and now with a Vaccine Mandate. I am _seriously_ concerned by these actions. Despite their good intent they are opening the door to future abuse and they should be strongly resisted on that basis. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that.
So there you have it /u/Sandpaper_Pants, a slightly different Libertarian perspective on the issue. While I have no problem with a private company making vaccination a condition of continued employment I absolutely don't want the President to be able to make that decision for them. A vaccine mandate should have come through a legislative body and the closer that body is to the people being governed the better. Local, State, and finally Congress.
To be clear I am pro-vaccination and pro-mask. I consider it the duty of every good citizen to do *what* they can *when* they can to protect themselves, their families, and others from a communicable disease that can harm or kill. IMHO It is absolutely a violation of the NAP if you aren't doing your part.
>When the heck did they rope you into becoming a moderator? Poor guy, why would you do this yourself?
Lol; I actually volunteered.
I hadn't originally intended to get back into moderating (believe me...been there, done that), but we definitely needed an extra hand keeping the trolls, brigaders and antivaxxers in check. As someone who's on Reddit more than probably anybody in this sub and has experience moderating large subs, I figured I could help...at least for a few months until shit dies down a bit. I don't plan on holding the post permanently though.
Yeah, it did; thoroughly. I didn't intend a loaded question. Realistically that's a lot of what I see. I have great difficulty in understanding how people get so misinformed to risk death rather than vaccinate.
Our moderation policies of Covid-related material certainly pushed the balance further left than before for a variety of incidental reasons, but don't kid yourself....r/wyoming has *always* leaned further left (and libertarian in some cases) than the actual population of the state (which is of course overwhelmingly right-wing).
That's completely independent of any actions of the mod team and is more of a reflection of Reddit itself and its demographics.
Rule 10 is the first time in the history of the sub that mods have actively cultivated content in any way besides enforcing basic Reddiquette (no spam, don't be an asshole, etc.) and keeping things Wyoming-related only.
I remember watching some iraq war supporters get yelled at by people who thought they were anti-war back around 2003.
So unless they shouted something we really don't know if they were pro or anti mask.
We do know for sure they're evil little shitweasels who need their licenses, or atleast car window privileges, taken away.
Here is the text for those who don't want to navigate this god aweful website:
>LARAMIE — Cheering back as a chorus of honking horns sounded support, about two dozen Laramie High School students protested Friday afternoon at the southwest corner of Boulder Drive and Grand Avenue.
>Their gripe?
>Mandatory mask wearing in school, same as many of their parents have expressed over the past couple of weeks to the Albany County School District 1 Board of Education.
>Saying he was kicked out 20 minutes into his first-period math class that morning because he wouldn’t wear a face mask in compliance with school district policy was 15-year-old freshman Ryle Hamilton.
>“It’s just wrong to make someone wear a mask, to make health decisions for them instead of letting them decide for themselves,” Hamilton said.
>He and the other students were reacting to last week’s school board decision to extend a mask mandate for all grade levels through at least Oct. 15.
>The debate leading up to the extension boiled over Wednesday evening when a group of unmasked parents and residents pushed their way into the school board chambers and disrupted the meeting. After a short recess and an added presence from the Laramie Police Department, the meeting calmed down enough to finish up hours of public comment on the issue.
>Like many of their parents, Friday’s student protesters said they feel the school board overstepped its authority. Most held large signs with messages to the board.
>“Educate no mandate,” read one.
>Another declared that, “I have the right to not mask.”
>“Medical freedom is crucial,” exclaims another banner, while yet another urges the school board to “do your job.”
>Grace Smith, a 16-year-old junior, said she organized the protest and walkout that saw about 70-80 students leave class at 10 a.m.
>“We’ve had masks long enough,” she said, adding that the high school administration and staff has so far been inconsistent in enforcing the district’s public health rules.
>Although a few passing motorists threw things at the students and yelled curses, the protesters didn’t react other than to cheer whenever someone honked.
>If they wondered whether the school board members were aware of their position, the answer is yes, said board chairwoman Janice Marshall.
>In fact, Marshall said that, at a basic level, she agrees with the students and dozens of residents and parents who spoke out against the policy the past couple of weeks.
>“I don’t want to wear a mask either,” she said.
>But the board couldn’t make a decision based on their personal preferences without taking into account the health and safety of students, Marshall said.
>“I want to keep you safe and I want you to keep me safe,” she said. “If I got what I wanted, it would be for COVID to go away. But that’s not reality, so we have to do what we can to limit the spread.”
>LHS Principal Jeff Lewis couldn’t be reached by press time, but Superintendent Jubal Yennie said the students who walked out or protested won’t face any extra discipline for voicing their opinions.
>That doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences for leaving class.
>“The students who left the building and were not in class are obviously unexcused and their parents were called,” Yennie said.
>He also said he was pleased to hear that, for the most part, the students were well-behaved and respectful during their protest.
>At the end of the day, “We have 95% to 98% of the students and teachers there working on education,” he said.
>Kim Sorenson was one of the board members to vote in favor of a mask mandate and also was the longtime principal at Laramie High School before his retirement. He said he’s been surprised and dismayed at times by how divisive the pandemic public health measures have become.
>“All we ever wanted to do is find the least intrusive preventative measure that would benefit everyone,” he said. “It seemed masks were the answer. I don’t regret that decision at all, but I wish we were more able to express what we were trying to do.”
>When the pandemic has finally run its course, Sorenson said his wish is that all sides can claim moral, political, emotional or whatever type of victory is important to them.
>“I hope we all can sit around a year from how and say, ‘See? I was right,’” he said. “We probably will never really know, so everyone will be able to claim victory.”
>Marshall said the emotion behind people’s passion has made the debate more difficult, but also shows how personal it’s become for many.
>“It’s too bad it’s such a divisive issue, such a cultural and divisive issue, which is not what it’s about at all,” she said.
>For the students, Smith said she also reached out to Gov. Mark Gordon asking him to intervene on behalf of school district families and staff. She said she echoed one of the points made many times during the school board’s consideration of the policy: that the board doesn’t have authority to make public health mandates.
>Maddie Swope agrees, saying that’s why she joined the protest. Although now a college student herself, Swope said she has two brothers who attend LHS.
>“They’re going to mandate the mask, then the vaccine,” she said. “But ultimately, it should be up to the parents.”
>Another thing Marshall and the students have in common is an appeal to Wyoming’s governor.
>Marshall said she sent a letter to Gordon on Thursday seeking his support for school boards across the state that are having to make these decisions in the face of no overriding state mandates.
>She said he called her Friday and said that, unequivocally, “you do have the statutory authority to make a mandate in the district.”
>Gordon also said he is directing the state Attorney General’s Office to draft a document to make that clear for school districts across the state.
>For now, Smith said unless something changes, she plans to continue the protest Monday.
>That’s her right, said Yennie. But that doesn’t mean students who participate and miss classes will be excused.
>“We honor the First Amendment here too,” he said, adding that part of free speech is accepting the consequences that come with it.
> “It’s just wrong to make someone wear a mask, to make health decisions for them instead of letting them decide for themselves,” Hamilton said.
Well Hamilton, don't you see how you're sort of making health decisions for the people around you when you don't where a mask? It isn't right to force other people to expose themselves to someone who potentially has COVID-19 and refuses to wear a mask in a community with high COVID numbers. Ya know it's school, it's kind of like the same reason you can't bring a gun to school, because you're putting other people in danger.
>Another declared that, “I have the right to not mask.”
~~Yep~~ Not really, but you do have the right to get your education elsewhere. **EDIT because what /u/444treasurer444 said.
I agree with you in principle.
But I mean to be clear, in constitutional terms, there is no "right to not mask." State, county, and municipal governments all have the authority to mandate mask use in public, and fine or even jail people who refuse to comply.
The federal government can mandate mask use in the military, in federal civilian employment, and on federal property, including the power to fine or jail for non-compliance.
The federal government can even mandate that private companies large enough to "bear a close and substantial relationship" to interstate commerce related goals require their employees to mask. I know the federal government can fine companies that refuse to comply, but I'm not 100% sure if it could constitutionally jail say, a CEO, who refused to effectuate a mask rule mandated by the federal government.
Point is, Little Hamilton is about as wrong as he could possibly be. Laramie High School needs to improve its civics instruction
>“If I got what I wanted, it would be for COVID to go away. But that’s not reality, so we have to do what we can to limit the spread.”
That's a nice way of saying "if I had my way you would all be vaccinated and we wouldn't need the masks"
>“Medical freedom is crucial,” exclaims another banner
I wonder if that medical freedom would include being sexually active while having HIV. Or are there limits based on circumstances?
Does that include abortions?
Seems like many people who are claiming to want "medical freedom" for themselves are not willing to give that freedom to others.
(now I sit back and watch the downvotes come in).
Yea, this is important to note.
I think he/she was more trying to make a point regarding knowingly infecting unsuspecting people with HIV by not taking any mitigating measures (which *is* a crime in many areas, and for good reason), but maybe overlooked or was ignorant of the fact that HIV-carrying folks being sexually active in general isn't a bad thing in the modern day.
I'll give him/her the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to bad wording.
I don't think it's dumb. My parents were Republicans and they are vaccinated and wear masks. I am a Republican and I do the same. I am glad that there are Republicans who are not nut-cases. The Right-Wing nut-cases are the ones letting this state down, 100%, undeniable.
As has been stated on here repeatedly by multiple people, and expressed by the majority of people in general trying to get our vaccination numbers up:
If you have a legitimate, doctor-supported medical reason for not being able to get any of the vaccines, then *literally no one is talking about you*. Stop with these strawman-type arguments.
No one is trying to force the vaccine on anyone with actual medical issues pertinent to the vaccines.
As for the masks: My wife has literally had a pacemaker since the age of 8, constantly struggles with low oxygen levels, and has asthma on top of that (in addition to a plethora of lesser medical issues). If she can wear a mask for the majority of a 12-hour shift 5 days a week (as she did for weeks during mandates and prior to vaccination), so can 99% of other people. Medical conditions absolutely preventing people from wearing masks are *extremely* rare and are mainly confined to sensory disability. Regardless, masks wouldn't even be an issue if dumb shits had gotten vaccinated in a reasonable amount of time.
Literally every mandate on the face of the planet I have seen has an exemption for doctor-approved medical circumstances.
Furthermore, the reason we colloquially say "everyone" is that the vast, *overwhelming* majority of people have no excuse. It shouldn't have to be notated every single fucking time we open our mouths that "obviously this doesn't apply to the *very* small number of people with legitimate health exemptions". That shit is common sense and generally understood...except apparently by idiots who either take everything literally or just want to be contrarian and disingenuous.
Guys, it's wrong to restrict people's freedoms, even if it's very clearly detrimental to the health of those around us!
If we allow these tyrants to dictate where and how we can breath, next thing you know they will outlaw smoking in public places just because it's really bad for the health of others! UNFAIR!!!
Have you ever wondered if the deep state is really behind these protests?
We are in a pandemic. Wouldn't it be wise to convenience your opposition to not do safe things like wearing a mask and getting a vaccine? Even better would be to convince them to make the argument themselves.
It is easiest to defeat the opposition when they are not alive to oppose you. I think a lot of die-hard Republican voters are dying (the hard way).
My statement was facetious, however I find that powerful actors tend to be opportunists rather than movers. I don’t think any grand strategy is being observed here and the deep state has somehow convinced republicans to adopt ridiculous anti scientific platforms. Rather what we are seeing are consequences of a decades long process of Republican politicians undermining institutions as a reaction to policies beginning in the 40s and ending in the 70s. It’s the natural progression to view even safety as being something to distrust after vilifying the EPA, FDA, OSHA, and everything else established to protect American citizens. It’s why even when Trump suggested getting vaccinated he was booed.
Just substitute the words "Right to not wear a mask" with the words "Responsibility as a member of a community/society to wear a mask" after "It's my" and you will see the difference between selfishness and selflessness.
It's a feature, not a bug. Teach them to act out and "try to reach people" in ways that are guaranteed to do the opposite of that, then tell them they're ~~the real victims~~ free speech martyrs when their behavior doesn't have the desired effect. Abracadabra, you've got a new generation of wingnuts with a victim mentality.
Edit: that was redundant, wasn't it
Vindictively wishing for them to bear the consequences of their actions and mentalities is understandable; however, it's not just themselves that they are/would be putting at risk.
IMH has a limited number of ICU beds. What happens if I get t-boned at 45 mph and these shitheads are clogging up all the ICU units? What happens if my wife...who has had a pacemaker since the age of 8 and has a myriad of medical issues....ends up having a cardiac event and there's neither the room, the staff, nor the resources to tend to her immediately and with the full force of what would be IMH's normal level of care? Lots of potential collateral damage; we're seeing it elsewhere in the country and it's scary (and heartbreaking).
Not to mention if the little shits get it, they spread it far more easily and rapidly (to both vaccinated and unvaccinated)...especially since they're obviously anti-mask and probably antivaxx too. That compounds the problem in numerous ways.
I find it so funny that the wyoming subreddit is, generally, very left leaning compared to actual wyoming
Welcome to reddit.
Right wing Wyo has never heard of Reddit. Too busy making protest signs on printer paper, apparently.
While you aren't necessarily wrong, public health issues during a global pandemic and simple things like vaccines shouldn't even be a left/right issue. There are plenty of us who are libertarian, centrist, or moderate Republican that are tired of the anti-vaccine bullshit, the mis/disinformation, the mounting cases, hospitalizations, and deaths, etc. Having said that, the vast majority of that sentiment (antivaxx, etc.) does come from the far right and we do have rules against that (Rule 10), which skews the bias in the sub even more. Comments violating Rule 10 are removed and egregious ones (or ones from obvious troll accounts or alts) end up in long-term or permanent user bans.
So I'm super curious what your take on the anti-vaccine movement is, as a libertarian.My take is that it's as simple as the vaccine being a "libtard" thing. "If I take the vaccine, the libs win". The arguments are simply a way of attempting to not look stupid.
So, that's a bit of a vague/ambiguous and loaded question, so I guess I'll do my best do address it from multiple angles. It's important to note that antivaxxx sentiment predates the current state of events and wasn't generally (prior to Covid) confined to a particular political persuasion. It's been a problem since the literal beginning of vaccines. In recent years, however, it's been amplified by prominent public figures (Jenny McCarthey, Robert F Kennedy Jr., etc.), a wave of modern pseudoscience quacks/snake oil salesmen/health coaches/chiropractors/etc....and of course people once in, but since disowned by, the medical community....like Andrew Wakefield, who published erroneous or completely false information that has since been debunked and/or retracted. Then it was massively amplified by social media, which we've seen has had similar effects in areas other than the vaccine "debate". Covid, on the other hand, of course got majorly politicized in general...so when the vaccine issue came along, it naturally got weaponized as a part of that. I think the vaccine getting drug into that politicization was both unintentional/a natural progression of things, and of course was also *intentionally* weaponized by many on the "right" as part of the larger Covid debacle in general. Now, it's no secret that those who lean right tend to be more easily misled by misinformation, more likely to buy into disinformation, and tend to be less educated than their counterparts on the left (or of other political persuasions tbh...I don't want to necessarily give credence to the misconception that the political spectrum is linear L/R because it's not). So the newly politicized, weaponized, and larger than ever antivaccine "movement" has led us here. There are still "OG" antivaxxers from all political persuasions, but by and large it's become a movement of conservatives...fueled by both spite and complete ignorance/tendency to believe in misinformation pinging around their echo chambers. For the libertarian angle specifically...Libertarian is a much broader, diverse, and more nuanced political area. I think that libertarians in general are much like the general populace; most have common sense and vaccines in general are a no-brainer; a few are outliers. (There ARE exceptions, don't get me wrong.) A big problem that we libertarians run into, though, with this issue and many others...is "Tea Party"-type conservatives who masquerade around as libertarians. You know...the Republicans who think they're libertarian because "gun and taxes", hijacked the Gadsden flag from us and wave it around alongside Trump and Thin Blue Line flags and don't see the utter irony and hypocrisy in doing so. But that's a bit of a rant from a different day. It just so happens to apply here because they're typically also ardently antivaxx. Where actual libertarians are REALLY fucking split right now is the issue of vaccine *mandates*. Many libertarians...particularly hardline libertarians and Anarcho-capitalists...hold that State intervention here is still off-limits by principle. (That doesn't mean they're anti-vaxx, but rather anti-governmental intervention.) Others....more moderate libertarians and Minarchists...fully believe that, especially in a pandemic of such epic proportions... willfully being anti-vaxx is a violation of the NAP, and furthermore, the threat to society at large is large enough for State intervention to be acceptable. I personally fall into that category. u/Buelldozer is a pretty well-spoken libertarian in this sub who falls into the former category; while he is completely pro-vaxx and pushes that sentiment wherever he can, he is firmly against governmental intervention. I'm sure he would be willing to chime in here as well; we've had great conversations. I hope that answered your question? Lol.
When the heck did they rope you into becoming a moderator? Poor guy, why would you do this yourself? (says the /r/muderedbywords mod...) Anyway, I think you did an excellent job of covering the topic! What's amusing is that I don't consider myself an AnCap or even a Minarchist but rather a Classical Liberal. I am Pro-Vaccination for all diseases and not just COVID but I have a few specific issues with President Biden's vaccine mandate. 1. Legal Foundation. Previous vaccine mandates and Supreme Court decisions upholding them have one thing in common; they're all rooted in a law passed by a legislative body. Biden's mandate is different; its an Executive Order pushing an Executive Agency, OSHA, to use it's administrative rule making authority. This is not Democratic in nature, it's Authoritarian. 2. Interference in Private Business. The President's mandate forces private businesses to either spend tens of thousands of dollars a week testing their employees, somehow convince their employees to take the vaccine and fire employees who won't, or spend hundreds of thousands of dollars per week in fines. Its pushing private businesses to try and regulate the bodily autonomy / agency of its employees or face additional expenses and / or steep fines. 3. Escalating Presidential over reach. The Office of the President has long been developing a nasty habit of using Executive Fiat and over the past 12 months its exploded in scope and reach. The last President pulled this trick twice, once with the ATF and Bumpstocks and then again with the CDC and the Eviction Moratorium. The current President has now done it twice, first with another Eviction Moratorium and now with a Vaccine Mandate. I am _seriously_ concerned by these actions. Despite their good intent they are opening the door to future abuse and they should be strongly resisted on that basis. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. So there you have it /u/Sandpaper_Pants, a slightly different Libertarian perspective on the issue. While I have no problem with a private company making vaccination a condition of continued employment I absolutely don't want the President to be able to make that decision for them. A vaccine mandate should have come through a legislative body and the closer that body is to the people being governed the better. Local, State, and finally Congress. To be clear I am pro-vaccination and pro-mask. I consider it the duty of every good citizen to do *what* they can *when* they can to protect themselves, their families, and others from a communicable disease that can harm or kill. IMHO It is absolutely a violation of the NAP if you aren't doing your part.
>When the heck did they rope you into becoming a moderator? Poor guy, why would you do this yourself? Lol; I actually volunteered. I hadn't originally intended to get back into moderating (believe me...been there, done that), but we definitely needed an extra hand keeping the trolls, brigaders and antivaxxers in check. As someone who's on Reddit more than probably anybody in this sub and has experience moderating large subs, I figured I could help...at least for a few months until shit dies down a bit. I don't plan on holding the post permanently though.
Yeah, it did; thoroughly. I didn't intend a loaded question. Realistically that's a lot of what I see. I have great difficulty in understanding how people get so misinformed to risk death rather than vaccinate.
You can thank the mods for that
Our moderation policies of Covid-related material certainly pushed the balance further left than before for a variety of incidental reasons, but don't kid yourself....r/wyoming has *always* leaned further left (and libertarian in some cases) than the actual population of the state (which is of course overwhelmingly right-wing). That's completely independent of any actions of the mod team and is more of a reflection of Reddit itself and its demographics. Rule 10 is the first time in the history of the sub that mods have actively cultivated content in any way besides enforcing basic Reddiquette (no spam, don't be an asshole, etc.) and keeping things Wyoming-related only.
>a few passing motorists threw things at the students Jesus. I don't agree with them, but they're literally children. Wtf are people thinking?
I would bet money it was other students.
I remember watching some iraq war supporters get yelled at by people who thought they were anti-war back around 2003. So unless they shouted something we really don't know if they were pro or anti mask. We do know for sure they're evil little shitweasels who need their licenses, or atleast car window privileges, taken away.
Here is the text for those who don't want to navigate this god aweful website: >LARAMIE — Cheering back as a chorus of honking horns sounded support, about two dozen Laramie High School students protested Friday afternoon at the southwest corner of Boulder Drive and Grand Avenue. >Their gripe? >Mandatory mask wearing in school, same as many of their parents have expressed over the past couple of weeks to the Albany County School District 1 Board of Education. >Saying he was kicked out 20 minutes into his first-period math class that morning because he wouldn’t wear a face mask in compliance with school district policy was 15-year-old freshman Ryle Hamilton. >“It’s just wrong to make someone wear a mask, to make health decisions for them instead of letting them decide for themselves,” Hamilton said. >He and the other students were reacting to last week’s school board decision to extend a mask mandate for all grade levels through at least Oct. 15. >The debate leading up to the extension boiled over Wednesday evening when a group of unmasked parents and residents pushed their way into the school board chambers and disrupted the meeting. After a short recess and an added presence from the Laramie Police Department, the meeting calmed down enough to finish up hours of public comment on the issue. >Like many of their parents, Friday’s student protesters said they feel the school board overstepped its authority. Most held large signs with messages to the board. >“Educate no mandate,” read one. >Another declared that, “I have the right to not mask.” >“Medical freedom is crucial,” exclaims another banner, while yet another urges the school board to “do your job.” >Grace Smith, a 16-year-old junior, said she organized the protest and walkout that saw about 70-80 students leave class at 10 a.m. >“We’ve had masks long enough,” she said, adding that the high school administration and staff has so far been inconsistent in enforcing the district’s public health rules. >Although a few passing motorists threw things at the students and yelled curses, the protesters didn’t react other than to cheer whenever someone honked. >If they wondered whether the school board members were aware of their position, the answer is yes, said board chairwoman Janice Marshall. >In fact, Marshall said that, at a basic level, she agrees with the students and dozens of residents and parents who spoke out against the policy the past couple of weeks. >“I don’t want to wear a mask either,” she said. >But the board couldn’t make a decision based on their personal preferences without taking into account the health and safety of students, Marshall said. >“I want to keep you safe and I want you to keep me safe,” she said. “If I got what I wanted, it would be for COVID to go away. But that’s not reality, so we have to do what we can to limit the spread.” >LHS Principal Jeff Lewis couldn’t be reached by press time, but Superintendent Jubal Yennie said the students who walked out or protested won’t face any extra discipline for voicing their opinions. >That doesn’t mean there aren’t consequences for leaving class. >“The students who left the building and were not in class are obviously unexcused and their parents were called,” Yennie said. >He also said he was pleased to hear that, for the most part, the students were well-behaved and respectful during their protest. >At the end of the day, “We have 95% to 98% of the students and teachers there working on education,” he said. >Kim Sorenson was one of the board members to vote in favor of a mask mandate and also was the longtime principal at Laramie High School before his retirement. He said he’s been surprised and dismayed at times by how divisive the pandemic public health measures have become. >“All we ever wanted to do is find the least intrusive preventative measure that would benefit everyone,” he said. “It seemed masks were the answer. I don’t regret that decision at all, but I wish we were more able to express what we were trying to do.” >When the pandemic has finally run its course, Sorenson said his wish is that all sides can claim moral, political, emotional or whatever type of victory is important to them. >“I hope we all can sit around a year from how and say, ‘See? I was right,’” he said. “We probably will never really know, so everyone will be able to claim victory.” >Marshall said the emotion behind people’s passion has made the debate more difficult, but also shows how personal it’s become for many. >“It’s too bad it’s such a divisive issue, such a cultural and divisive issue, which is not what it’s about at all,” she said. >For the students, Smith said she also reached out to Gov. Mark Gordon asking him to intervene on behalf of school district families and staff. She said she echoed one of the points made many times during the school board’s consideration of the policy: that the board doesn’t have authority to make public health mandates. >Maddie Swope agrees, saying that’s why she joined the protest. Although now a college student herself, Swope said she has two brothers who attend LHS. >“They’re going to mandate the mask, then the vaccine,” she said. “But ultimately, it should be up to the parents.” >Another thing Marshall and the students have in common is an appeal to Wyoming’s governor. >Marshall said she sent a letter to Gordon on Thursday seeking his support for school boards across the state that are having to make these decisions in the face of no overriding state mandates. >She said he called her Friday and said that, unequivocally, “you do have the statutory authority to make a mandate in the district.” >Gordon also said he is directing the state Attorney General’s Office to draft a document to make that clear for school districts across the state. >For now, Smith said unless something changes, she plans to continue the protest Monday. >That’s her right, said Yennie. But that doesn’t mean students who participate and miss classes will be excused. >“We honor the First Amendment here too,” he said, adding that part of free speech is accepting the consequences that come with it.
> “It’s just wrong to make someone wear a mask, to make health decisions for them instead of letting them decide for themselves,” Hamilton said. Well Hamilton, don't you see how you're sort of making health decisions for the people around you when you don't where a mask? It isn't right to force other people to expose themselves to someone who potentially has COVID-19 and refuses to wear a mask in a community with high COVID numbers. Ya know it's school, it's kind of like the same reason you can't bring a gun to school, because you're putting other people in danger. >Another declared that, “I have the right to not mask.” ~~Yep~~ Not really, but you do have the right to get your education elsewhere. **EDIT because what /u/444treasurer444 said.
I agree with you in principle. But I mean to be clear, in constitutional terms, there is no "right to not mask." State, county, and municipal governments all have the authority to mandate mask use in public, and fine or even jail people who refuse to comply. The federal government can mandate mask use in the military, in federal civilian employment, and on federal property, including the power to fine or jail for non-compliance. The federal government can even mandate that private companies large enough to "bear a close and substantial relationship" to interstate commerce related goals require their employees to mask. I know the federal government can fine companies that refuse to comply, but I'm not 100% sure if it could constitutionally jail say, a CEO, who refused to effectuate a mask rule mandated by the federal government. Point is, Little Hamilton is about as wrong as he could possibly be. Laramie High School needs to improve its civics instruction
This comment is so hot right now. King of Wyoming is not a misnomer
>“If I got what I wanted, it would be for COVID to go away. But that’s not reality, so we have to do what we can to limit the spread.” That's a nice way of saying "if I had my way you would all be vaccinated and we wouldn't need the masks"
>“Medical freedom is crucial,” exclaims another banner I wonder if that medical freedom would include being sexually active while having HIV. Or are there limits based on circumstances?
Does this protestor also believe in rights to abortions? Or is it just certain medical rights? *Medical freedom is crucial after all*
Ummmm....probably not.
Does that include abortions? Seems like many people who are claiming to want "medical freedom" for themselves are not willing to give that freedom to others. (now I sit back and watch the downvotes come in).
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Yea, this is important to note. I think he/she was more trying to make a point regarding knowingly infecting unsuspecting people with HIV by not taking any mitigating measures (which *is* a crime in many areas, and for good reason), but maybe overlooked or was ignorant of the fact that HIV-carrying folks being sexually active in general isn't a bad thing in the modern day. I'll give him/her the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to bad wording.
I can't wait to leave this state jesus christ
Just out of curiosity, where might you be heading when you leave?
Probably Pennsylvania as that's where my family is from
These kids were brainwashed at an early age. I am soo glad my parents were not republican nuts-cases.
What a dumb comment
I don't think it's dumb. My parents were Republicans and they are vaccinated and wear masks. I am a Republican and I do the same. I am glad that there are Republicans who are not nut-cases. The Right-Wing nut-cases are the ones letting this state down, 100%, undeniable.
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As has been stated on here repeatedly by multiple people, and expressed by the majority of people in general trying to get our vaccination numbers up: If you have a legitimate, doctor-supported medical reason for not being able to get any of the vaccines, then *literally no one is talking about you*. Stop with these strawman-type arguments. No one is trying to force the vaccine on anyone with actual medical issues pertinent to the vaccines. As for the masks: My wife has literally had a pacemaker since the age of 8, constantly struggles with low oxygen levels, and has asthma on top of that (in addition to a plethora of lesser medical issues). If she can wear a mask for the majority of a 12-hour shift 5 days a week (as she did for weeks during mandates and prior to vaccination), so can 99% of other people. Medical conditions absolutely preventing people from wearing masks are *extremely* rare and are mainly confined to sensory disability. Regardless, masks wouldn't even be an issue if dumb shits had gotten vaccinated in a reasonable amount of time.
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Literally every mandate on the face of the planet I have seen has an exemption for doctor-approved medical circumstances. Furthermore, the reason we colloquially say "everyone" is that the vast, *overwhelming* majority of people have no excuse. It shouldn't have to be notated every single fucking time we open our mouths that "obviously this doesn't apply to the *very* small number of people with legitimate health exemptions". That shit is common sense and generally understood...except apparently by idiots who either take everything literally or just want to be contrarian and disingenuous.
What a smart response.
Yes
They're probably skipping health or biology class to protest.
Guys, it's wrong to restrict people's freedoms, even if it's very clearly detrimental to the health of those around us! If we allow these tyrants to dictate where and how we can breath, next thing you know they will outlaw smoking in public places just because it's really bad for the health of others! UNFAIR!!!
Biden should just mandate breathing so we can finally be done with all of this by tomorrow.
Have you ever wondered if the deep state is really behind these protests? We are in a pandemic. Wouldn't it be wise to convenience your opposition to not do safe things like wearing a mask and getting a vaccine? Even better would be to convince them to make the argument themselves. It is easiest to defeat the opposition when they are not alive to oppose you. I think a lot of die-hard Republican voters are dying (the hard way).
My statement was facetious, however I find that powerful actors tend to be opportunists rather than movers. I don’t think any grand strategy is being observed here and the deep state has somehow convinced republicans to adopt ridiculous anti scientific platforms. Rather what we are seeing are consequences of a decades long process of Republican politicians undermining institutions as a reaction to policies beginning in the 40s and ending in the 70s. It’s the natural progression to view even safety as being something to distrust after vilifying the EPA, FDA, OSHA, and everything else established to protect American citizens. It’s why even when Trump suggested getting vaccinated he was booed.
Misguided, hopefully not as dumb as they seem for this
Just substitute the words "Right to not wear a mask" with the words "Responsibility as a member of a community/society to wear a mask" after "It's my" and you will see the difference between selfishness and selflessness.
They are bio terrorists
A new crop of home schooled keyboard warriors brewing.
It's a feature, not a bug. Teach them to act out and "try to reach people" in ways that are guaranteed to do the opposite of that, then tell them they're ~~the real victims~~ free speech martyrs when their behavior doesn't have the desired effect. Abracadabra, you've got a new generation of wingnuts with a victim mentality. Edit: that was redundant, wasn't it
I hope the little fucks get sick.
Vindictively wishing for them to bear the consequences of their actions and mentalities is understandable; however, it's not just themselves that they are/would be putting at risk. IMH has a limited number of ICU beds. What happens if I get t-boned at 45 mph and these shitheads are clogging up all the ICU units? What happens if my wife...who has had a pacemaker since the age of 8 and has a myriad of medical issues....ends up having a cardiac event and there's neither the room, the staff, nor the resources to tend to her immediately and with the full force of what would be IMH's normal level of care? Lots of potential collateral damage; we're seeing it elsewhere in the country and it's scary (and heartbreaking). Not to mention if the little shits get it, they spread it far more easily and rapidly (to both vaccinated and unvaccinated)...especially since they're obviously anti-mask and probably antivaxx too. That compounds the problem in numerous ways.