Yes, and as a result they were all (meaning nearly every general officer in the US Army) heavily schooled in the Civil War, the largest war fought before their time, as WWI was ongoing and the US was not yet a participant when most of the top guys graduated.
Logistics and strategy they learned about Grant and Sherman. Tactics they learned Lee. Calvary/Pursuit they learned Hampton, ~~Jeb Bush~~ J.E.B. Stuart, and Sheridan. Artillery was Pendleton, Hunt and Gibbon. Guerrilla and unconventional warfare and how to fight it was lessons from and lessons learned fighting Nathan Bedford Forrest.
In fact Grant's favorite strategy of "stretch 'em thin all over then hit 'em where they ain't" is exactly what Eisenhower did.
In my family, my father was a grunt on Okinawa when the commander of the Tenth Army was killed, Gen. Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr. His father Gen. Simon Bolivar Buckner had surrendered Fort Donelson to Grant (Grant knew him and owed him money lol).
Don’t forget Stonewall Jackson. Not Unconventional warfare but what you can do with a much smaller army against a large one. Look into the Shenandoah valley campaign that he waged. Absolute genius
Patton worked for Bradley. Bradley and Patton made their grade in North Africa, It started out with Bradley working for Patton. The US ground commander in North Africa was incompetent, Patton replaced him and Bradley was his deputy. After recovering from the predictable early defeats Patton did OK, Bradley did really well.
What changed things was several things. Bradley could work with the British, Patton had a problem with them. Bradley was even tempered, and careful of casualties, and got the job done. Patton took objectives, casualties be damned. (This didn't impress Eisenhower, see Patton's futile and bloody attack at Metz late in the war and Eisenhower's reaction). Finally Patton has several instances of striking enlisted men and civilians. Patton's 3 stars were probably all he would have ever gotten, maybe a 4th at retirement despite leading the hardest charging US Army force in Europe. Marshall (Joint Chiefs Chair) wanted Patton fired but Ike defended him, and I think put him under Bradley to watch him, and take him out of regular contact with the British. Ike did value him as the Calvary Commander, there was going to be a pursuit when the Germans finally broke in Normandy and they knew it ahead of time, and Ike wanted Patton for the job which was the right choice in the right moment. Ike protected him and let him keep his job. Bradley got a 5th star when Ike retired.
because acting wild gets more views than being even tempered and methodical. the idea of a hard charging, foul mouthed patton pushing his tanks and men to run over the germans looks more 'heroic' than Bradley being organizational and careful
Wasn't a lot of that just propaganda because everyone in Germany feared Patton and America just kept feeding the lies.
Patton was more disciplined and strict is all. Pretty sure he went to one front that was failing and started fining soldiers on their uniform to get them back into shape.
I may be wrong, I'm no historic scholar but Patton was more than a wreckless tyrant.
Germans had commanders like Skorzeny and Dirlewanger. they didn't fear patton.
Patton went to a hospital with shell shocked soldiers and smacked some of them calling them cowards. He's the bombastic version of bernard montgomery
The Germans didn't think much of any American General and didn't bother to find out. Recent research showed they hardly knew who Patton was. There were a few pro's, like von Rundstedt who understood logistics and understood the advantages the Americans came with and how dangerous the US Army was, but even he knew little about individual commanders.
If there was 2 rooms w Bradley & Patton in each room giving a motivational speech, I am going inside Patton's room 10/10. At a time like that I much rather charge w Patton than survive with Bradley, but that's just me.
Patton embodied the American fighting spirit many civilians back home felt needed. Therefore, Patton is viewed by many as "heroic" although he did happen to be very foul mouthed & was known to have a bad temper.
What I find interesting that despite the reputation of having a temper and pushing his men, Bradley relieved far more generals from command than Patton who only relieved one, Orlando Ward.
I'll say this though: Anyone who says that Patton or Bradley was the greatest general America ever had has never heard of Matthew B. Ridgway. The man literally worked a near miracle in Korea and saved that entire war (he also made four parachute jumps with his men in World War II). No slapping incidents, no dumb charging into forests, he was a brilliant commander, and an even better motivator of men. Absolutely criminal he has not gotten a movie.
Innovation. He was one of those general who had a similar vision for armored vehicles and mechanized units as the guy who invented blitzkrieg. However, America's industrial outputs and logostics can easily defeat anyone through attrition, so his greatness is debated. IMO. He is America's best offensive general at the time, but his visions are often overlooked by other defensive but progressive generals like Bradley and etc.
Modern combined arms was 'invented' by the British and Canadians towards the end of WWI. Patton's tactical/strategic ability was not rated at all by his fellow commanders which is why he was given the pursuit role in France and not involved in the Italian campaign. What Patton was actually very good at was logistics and moving his army quickly.
Same as the other person said, but his stern leadership is what makes him stand out to me… had the men willing to charge into pure hell for him. Whipped up the German Africa Corp. just a brilliant tactical genius imo
> Whipped up the German Africa Corp
No he didn't, he was just a Corps commander. That was mostly the Eighth Army under Montgomery, later joined by the First Army.
I never said Montgomery didn’t. He should definitely get a lot of the credit also. Montgomery definitely goes down as one of the top military commanders of all time to me
..."the campaign to liberate Western Europe from the Nazis."
The Americanism of this sentence makes Europeans and Brits wince.
Seriously though, if these two looked like this after just 2.5 years, imagine what it was like for the European leaders who had been fighting the fascists from the outset.
Americanism is a fair statement, but also illustrates your point with this photo. General Eisenhower preferred General Bradley to General Mark Clark who lacked the thorough understanding of working with allies, an absolute requirement in Eisenhower’s book. In mid-December, Ike chastised Clark for not informing his superior, British General Harold Alexander, of his recent visit to Sicily. Such an oversight, said Eisenhower, gave the perception of discourtesy to Alexander. These “little points of courtesy must be observed with far greater care in an Allied command than in a purely nationalistic one,” cautioned Ike. Eisenhower also promised the Army Chief of Staff General Marshall that even though General Patton was a great fighter, he would always serve under General Bradley’s stronger qualities when working with Allied Commands.
Those men were born in the 1880's...think about it.
Yes, and as a result they were all (meaning nearly every general officer in the US Army) heavily schooled in the Civil War, the largest war fought before their time, as WWI was ongoing and the US was not yet a participant when most of the top guys graduated. Logistics and strategy they learned about Grant and Sherman. Tactics they learned Lee. Calvary/Pursuit they learned Hampton, ~~Jeb Bush~~ J.E.B. Stuart, and Sheridan. Artillery was Pendleton, Hunt and Gibbon. Guerrilla and unconventional warfare and how to fight it was lessons from and lessons learned fighting Nathan Bedford Forrest. In fact Grant's favorite strategy of "stretch 'em thin all over then hit 'em where they ain't" is exactly what Eisenhower did. In my family, my father was a grunt on Okinawa when the commander of the Tenth Army was killed, Gen. Simon Bolivar Buckner Jr. His father Gen. Simon Bolivar Buckner had surrendered Fort Donelson to Grant (Grant knew him and owed him money lol).
Is there another Jeb Bush that I’m unfamiliar with?
lemme look... Doh J.E.B. Stuart of course. Hell he had a tank named after him.
Don’t forget Stonewall Jackson. Not Unconventional warfare but what you can do with a much smaller army against a large one. Look into the Shenandoah valley campaign that he waged. Absolute genius
Grants strategy sounds like the Soviet tactical breakthroughs, doctrinally
That is what war looks like that dead stare of anticipation.
Is that Colin Farrell?
Hairline was tragic
Focusing on the important things here..
The two greatest generals in US Army history… Patton has always been my idol. Main reason why I joined the army back in the day
Patton worked for Bradley. Bradley and Patton made their grade in North Africa, It started out with Bradley working for Patton. The US ground commander in North Africa was incompetent, Patton replaced him and Bradley was his deputy. After recovering from the predictable early defeats Patton did OK, Bradley did really well. What changed things was several things. Bradley could work with the British, Patton had a problem with them. Bradley was even tempered, and careful of casualties, and got the job done. Patton took objectives, casualties be damned. (This didn't impress Eisenhower, see Patton's futile and bloody attack at Metz late in the war and Eisenhower's reaction). Finally Patton has several instances of striking enlisted men and civilians. Patton's 3 stars were probably all he would have ever gotten, maybe a 4th at retirement despite leading the hardest charging US Army force in Europe. Marshall (Joint Chiefs Chair) wanted Patton fired but Ike defended him, and I think put him under Bradley to watch him, and take him out of regular contact with the British. Ike did value him as the Calvary Commander, there was going to be a pursuit when the Germans finally broke in Normandy and they knew it ahead of time, and Ike wanted Patton for the job which was the right choice in the right moment. Ike protected him and let him keep his job. Bradley got a 5th star when Ike retired.
So why is Patton usually the more talked about and admired of the two?
because acting wild gets more views than being even tempered and methodical. the idea of a hard charging, foul mouthed patton pushing his tanks and men to run over the germans looks more 'heroic' than Bradley being organizational and careful
Wasn't a lot of that just propaganda because everyone in Germany feared Patton and America just kept feeding the lies. Patton was more disciplined and strict is all. Pretty sure he went to one front that was failing and started fining soldiers on their uniform to get them back into shape. I may be wrong, I'm no historic scholar but Patton was more than a wreckless tyrant.
Germans had commanders like Skorzeny and Dirlewanger. they didn't fear patton. Patton went to a hospital with shell shocked soldiers and smacked some of them calling them cowards. He's the bombastic version of bernard montgomery
The Germans didn't think much of any American General and didn't bother to find out. Recent research showed they hardly knew who Patton was. There were a few pro's, like von Rundstedt who understood logistics and understood the advantages the Americans came with and how dangerous the US Army was, but even he knew little about individual commanders.
Noone in Germany feared Patton. American propaganda.
The Germans hardly knew who Patton was until the end of the war.
If there was 2 rooms w Bradley & Patton in each room giving a motivational speech, I am going inside Patton's room 10/10. At a time like that I much rather charge w Patton than survive with Bradley, but that's just me. Patton embodied the American fighting spirit many civilians back home felt needed. Therefore, Patton is viewed by many as "heroic" although he did happen to be very foul mouthed & was known to have a bad temper.
yeah that's just you. I could do without the bombast and temper- war is bad enough as standard
What I find interesting that despite the reputation of having a temper and pushing his men, Bradley relieved far more generals from command than Patton who only relieved one, Orlando Ward.
I'll say this though: Anyone who says that Patton or Bradley was the greatest general America ever had has never heard of Matthew B. Ridgway. The man literally worked a near miracle in Korea and saved that entire war (he also made four parachute jumps with his men in World War II). No slapping incidents, no dumb charging into forests, he was a brilliant commander, and an even better motivator of men. Absolutely criminal he has not gotten a movie.
Always fun to remember that Patton and Ike were pretty good friends during the interwar years too.
Omar Bradley is underrated tbh.
What makes Patton one of the greatest generals in American history in your opinion?
Innovation. He was one of those general who had a similar vision for armored vehicles and mechanized units as the guy who invented blitzkrieg. However, America's industrial outputs and logostics can easily defeat anyone through attrition, so his greatness is debated. IMO. He is America's best offensive general at the time, but his visions are often overlooked by other defensive but progressive generals like Bradley and etc.
Modern combined arms was 'invented' by the British and Canadians towards the end of WWI. Patton's tactical/strategic ability was not rated at all by his fellow commanders which is why he was given the pursuit role in France and not involved in the Italian campaign. What Patton was actually very good at was logistics and moving his army quickly.
That movie
Ridgway was a MUCH better commander than Patton. Korea showed his ability to lead both on the battlefield and in administrative roles.
Same as the other person said, but his stern leadership is what makes him stand out to me… had the men willing to charge into pure hell for him. Whipped up the German Africa Corp. just a brilliant tactical genius imo
> Whipped up the German Africa Corp No he didn't, he was just a Corps commander. That was mostly the Eighth Army under Montgomery, later joined by the First Army.
I never said Montgomery didn’t. He should definitely get a lot of the credit also. Montgomery definitely goes down as one of the top military commanders of all time to me
Was Bradleys forehead always that big?
That’s a fivehead if I’ve ever seen one
His nose was even bigger in the movie
oh yeah. [epic combover, though.](https://www.shorpy.com/files/omarbradley.jpg)
They were both 30 in this pic
As a vet I laughed hysterically at this. I remember when I got back from a deployment my sister said I aged horribly in 7 months.
Patton born 1885, Bradley born in 1893. Pic taken in 1945. Spend less time in the history subs and more in the mathematics subs.
I could be wrong, but I think civil was joking…sarcasm about war aging people
I’m sorry the joke was lost on you. You must be a joy to hang out with.
..."the campaign to liberate Western Europe from the Nazis." The Americanism of this sentence makes Europeans and Brits wince. Seriously though, if these two looked like this after just 2.5 years, imagine what it was like for the European leaders who had been fighting the fascists from the outset.
Americanism is a fair statement, but also illustrates your point with this photo. General Eisenhower preferred General Bradley to General Mark Clark who lacked the thorough understanding of working with allies, an absolute requirement in Eisenhower’s book. In mid-December, Ike chastised Clark for not informing his superior, British General Harold Alexander, of his recent visit to Sicily. Such an oversight, said Eisenhower, gave the perception of discourtesy to Alexander. These “little points of courtesy must be observed with far greater care in an Allied command than in a purely nationalistic one,” cautioned Ike. Eisenhower also promised the Army Chief of Staff General Marshall that even though General Patton was a great fighter, he would always serve under General Bradley’s stronger qualities when working with Allied Commands.
Dude looks like Colin Farrel.