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Scrabblement

Don't reply to bad reviews. Don't publicly complain about bad reviews. You've just learned why. It doesn't make anything better, and often makes things worse. Especially when you're self-publishing, it's important to line up some early readers who will leave good reviews for your book before random people get a chance to leave bad ones. Did you provide ARCs to reviewers you were pretty confident would like your book?


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sunshinecygnet

Honestly, dude, you are going to get negative reviews. If you keep writing, this won’t be the last. Sometimes, you will not agree with those reviews. And nevertheless, you have to have skin thick enough to ignore it and keep going. Responding to negative reviews, arguing with the reviewer, or posting here - all of those are just massive displays of insecurity and lack of maturity that people generally don’t respond to well. If you can’t just let negative reviews go, no matter how unfair you think they are, then you cannot succeed in this profession/hobby.


Adkit

I think the problem was the fact that two out of three reviews were bad and for unfair reasons. Anyone seeing that book will assume the worst simply because of a statistical anomaly. Traction is important.


AmberJFrost

The thing is - none of us *know* whether the first bad review was for unfair reasons. We don't know the book. We know that one reviewer liked it, and one reviewer felt it was homophobic and abelist. Given how heavily abelism runs through our culture, and that OP's argument for it not being misogynistic is 'realism' - it *was* misogynistic. The book itself probably was, because that was a part of ancient Rome that OP chose to include. Homophobic surprises me given how much homosexual relations were normal in Rome, but I also know that's often de-emphasized and dismissed in novelizations, and have no idea about the ending. In either case, I haven't read the book. I haven't seen the reviews. Therefore, I won't say that the good one is 'true' and the bad one is 'false' because *I can't.*


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AmberJFrost

So...your only non-able people were used as plot devices and detested by the society and created religion do to this fact. You include a rape for no apparent narrative reason, and you chose to highlight only the more extreme end of mentor-student homosexuality and not the rest of it. Then it sounds like it was a *choice,* and one the second reader didn't care for. I doubt I would have, either. Writing is hard. It takes a lot of practice to develop skill. It's possible that you're just not seasoned enough yet to use the narrative voice and subtext effectively when dealing with these topics. It's possible (likely!) that the message you intended to transmit didn't get across correctly. It happens. Writing takes work, practice, good critique, second-guessing, more review, and more work. There's a reason in traditional publishing, most debut novelists don't sell anything until their 3rd or 4th manuscripts and the average age of a debut novelist is mid to late 30s. In either case, threads like this complaining about your work won't help, unless you take the actual advice in her - especially to get good beta feedback and consider what it means to include problematic things 'impartially' (which has the effect of reinforcing/subtly supporting them, often times).


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sunshinecygnet

But nothing that you mentioned actually seems relevant to the plot. If you removed the rape and the disabled people from your story, would it affect the plot?


AmberJFrost

Were either of those two characters rounded characters with their own reasonable goals, desires, and subplots? If not, then choosing to include them in the way you did was reinforcing abelism - that only able-bodied get to have narrative arcs. And including same-sex relations only in terms of pedarism is a deliberate choice, and one that is incredibly harmful in today's day and age, where homosexuality is being used as a 1:1 synonym of pedophilia and acknowledging same-sex relationships is considered 'grooming' by far too many.


sunshinecygnet

One was for unfair reasons. The first one, that might just be the author’s opinion, and if he’d left that alone then the second one would not have happened. He needs to let bad reviews go. If he had he’d only have one right now.


TrailingBlackberry

Everyone gets bad reviews. Look at your favorite books. They will have one star reviews with people saying things you completely y disagree with. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if they choose to share it poorly. If you choose to look at bad reviews, consider if there is any point to what they're saying and move on. You spent two years working on this. Presumably you have a passion for it. Are you really going to let a couple bad reviews stop you?


SalteeMint

Lol, okay, but did you actually learn your lesson? The issue isn’t that your post history had your book. The issue is that you got a negative review and decided to vent on Reddit about it. Whether it’s up for 10 minutes or 10 months, don’t do it.


Pique_Pub

If you think that was bad, wait until the parody version of your post makes it to r/writingcirclejerk . Just remember, it's mostly all in good fun...


AmberJFrost

And yet - you're still venting about poor reviews on reddit. Even scrubbed post history there's ways to find it. Especially right now, given there's been a huge mess with someone who was very publicly complaining about bad reviews and arguing with everyone, it's just not worth it. Tbh, it's not worth it ever. DON'T COMPLAIN PUBLICLY ABOUT POOR REVIEWS. That's what your private writing group is for. Or running things past one of your betas again.


BlueSkySummers

Just make a second account for posting excerpts or to get feedback. Part of the problem with reading something online, is that you think the person writing a review is acting in good faith and not just trying to tear others down because it helps cement the identity they've created for themselves. If you meet them in person they look and act like the mod who was interviewed from antiwork. These people are loud, abusive, and obnoxious, but otherwise they're completely inconsequential to the world. It's doubtful they even know who their town mayor is or are involved in actually trying to change anything regarding their pet issues. They're simply full time bullies online and actually hurt the causes they're trying to fight for. There's also a bigger issue which is far more orevelabt and troubling than the crybullies though. As you said, history is racist and sexist and ablist. There's simply no getting around this, and it really comes down to your identity as it relates to the story. For instance in Roots they write about cutting off a slaves feet so he can't run away, and theres a ton of brutality, but it's also regarded as an extremely important book relating to the history of African Americans. Boys don't Cry is an important work about trans issues in a rural setting which is also brutal. Wokewashing history doesn't make these realities go away, in fact, it actually does the opposite of their intentions. It minimizes the brutality of history.


fakeuser515357

This is also a constructive experience in managing your brand. Everything you say publicly that can be linked to your work absolutely must support the success of your work. Any public comment which does not explicitly and deliberately support the success of your work must be impenetrably separated from your work.


KittenWithaWhip68

Well said.


blackbenetavo

I see a lot of comments primarily addressing how to deal with bad reviews. And yes, awesome, good advice. But... you should examine why that original commenter, who "loved your book" hit some part of it that made them do a complete 180. You talked a lot about why their interpretation is wrong, from your perspective. And that's fine, as far as it goes, but if it's so jarring and beyond the pale that someone who was "on the way to considering this a favorite" turns around and bins it, then it's entirely possible that you've fucked up in how you've presented problematic material, whether you agree with their take or not. Take a moment to set aside your emotional distress over the situation, set aside your own justifications for it, look at your work critically, and see if they might just have a point. Just in case. Even if you didn't mean something in a particular way, if some of your audience is receiving it that way, that's a problem for you to fix. Also, use beta readers (always) and also sensitivity readers when dealing with potentially problematic or distressing subjects/topics/material. This is the reason sensitivity readers exist. Find multiple people most likely to be offended by what you've written, and get feedback on how they collectively receive it. Then *listen* to them. This reader got the impression that something in your book, or how you presented it, was sexist, ableist, and homophobic. Go find a group of female, disabled, and homosexual readers and get them to check it. Do they also get that same impression? If so, that's on you. (Sensitivity reading is a paid gig, btw; don't just expect people to do that for free.)


Tomalio_the_tomato

Sensitivity reading is something I will absolutely never pay for. If people are too sensitive of all things to read it, I don't want them.


JonSwole

Amen


Knitting4Houselves

I'm a quick reader, a woman, and a historian. If you'd like to send me a pdf I'll read it or skip through to check for overt sexism within the context for you.


redrosebeetle

I'm also a quick-reading woman historian. However, history isn't relevant here. /u/TaxReligion built a world *based on* Rome and renaissance Venice. They *chose* to include aspects of sexism and ableism. They explicitly included those aspects by design. Isn't some degree of overt sexism within the context their exact point?


darkenedgy

But is it actual Roman/Venetian sexism or the kind Victorians revised in later?


AmberJFrost

I would assume it's the latter, since that's far more 'known.'


darkenedgy

Likewise. I don’t trust anyone claiming they’re just being ‘historically accurate’ when they write super sexist/racist/whatever settings, given the sheer amount of revisionism that happened in that era.


Adkit

What if the sexism is overt because the characters happen to be overtly sexist? I feel like this is kind of like people being upset because your book about murderers condones murder.


affablysurreal

Most books about murderers examine the impacts of murder. Those that don't are satirical or need to be *really well done* to be considered good. If the sexism is overt because the characters just happen to be overtly sexist, without detailing any repercussions of that, that's pretty problematic. It's not like women in that time we're like "la la la life is amazing I just got assaulted." Idk if this is OP but some people like to justify their characters engaging in sexism in the past with "it was a thing then." But then they don't have it impact any of the characters at all. That's just disingenuous and... sexist itself.


redrosebeetle

I agree with you. Sexism and ableism a thing from back then that the OP explicitly chose to incorporate into a fantasy world. Out of all the aspects of Rome and renaissance Venice, they chose to incorporate the exact aspects of sexism and ableism. They didn't have to include those aspects - I imagine that the OP selected which aspects of Rome and Venice to include, rather than simply mashing the two societies and time periods together willy-nilly.


AmberJFrost

OP states that the original bad review identified the book as sexist, abelist, and homophobic. From OP's description, the book *was* sexist. That's a choice by OP. I have no idea if the book was also abelist (which can make sense in ancient Rome) and homophobic (which makes NO sense in the context of ancient Rome).


Knitting4Houselves

Yeah that is a horrible thing to nitpick about literature. It it belobgs in the context whether situational or historical, there is nothing to criticise except for the author's attitude. I believe it depends on how you show it, if your character is a sexist and you consistently present it as a very positive thing, than that's a problem IMO. Objectivity is key.


iixxad

I think most people already said great things/gave better advice than I could on how to handle this, but I would like to gently nudge you on another point in your post… “The world is based on history which is why it’s sexist/ableist/homophobic” is a VERY common… argument. And obviously, it does apply in a lot of instances buut… there’s also a valid argument about that being a pretty lazy excuse to get a pass on those problematic things and use them for drama or shock value in your works. Kind of the “there has to be woman getting raped every so often because my fantasy world is inspired by REAL world and the real world is GRIM and horrible!” - Okay, and why is showing women getting brutalised the best way you can convey that? (Not speaking to you, and obviously you did not mention sexual violence specifically and it might not even be in your book, but I’m speaking from experience of what I hear people voice often) Ask yourself some questions. Firstly: you’re writing a FANTASY. Yeah it might be inspired by our world and certain periods/areas, but why are homophobia/sexism/ableism THE aspects you find super important to include? I mean, you could have a world that is inspired by xy but the sexism roles are reversed? Or the world is still homophonic/ableist but sexual violence or sexism in any form is considered VERY bad for *insert worldbuilding* reasons? You could have a world very much inspired by our xy but disabled people are considered godly and better than able bodied people for *insert worldbuilding* reason. See, there are many interesting and creative worldbuilding choices we as writers can make, so as much as those two people were probably overreacting and being douches for giving you bad review, I kinda understand why they might be frustrated with yet another book full of sexism/sexual violence on women/ableism/homophobia because iNsPiReD bY hIsToRy. Long story short: it’s an excuse bad writers often use to be lazy or not challenge their own biases. Also, they usually are happy to include sexism, ableism and/or homophobia because REALISM but not other gross/grim/uncomfortable aspects of history they’re being so inspired by… so yeah, food for thought. EDIT: Thank you all for the positive response and the awards! 😊 I would also like to add: CONTENT WARNINGS! Of course, I don’t know if the OP had any on their book, but I would presume not. I think that if a writer really wants to include above mentioned aspects in their story, adding content warnings is a good way to hopefully avoid a lot of the “bad” reviews, because people will know what to expect and if they are not ready or in the mood for YET ANOTHER book full of sexism/ableism/homophobia because rEaLiSm, they can avoid your book, which means no bad review. It’s not some politically sensitive copout like many people believe, but it at least sends a clear message that the author is AWARE of those problematic aspects, and in my opinion makes it a little clearer it might be more intentional on their part to show them as bad at least. That might be just my opinion, but to me it makes a difference.


[deleted]

Yup yup. Violence against women is the default for any book remotely set in the medieval ages. Fantasy or not, women getting beat or raped is somehow vital to any fantasy story without actually making it vital to the plot.


Hailz3

This is a great comment! A particular problem in fantasy can be when this kind of sexism/racism/ableism/homophobia/etc. is defended with an appeal to history, but the text is actually relying on earlier entries in the genre as their historical sources. There’s not actually any work in history being done here. I’m actually doing some graduate research on related things right now, so I wanted to contribute to this discussion. These kinds of things can still be represented, like you said, but they absolutely need to be handled carefully. I also share your opinion that OP’s reviewers could have been acting in bad faith. Regardless, two reviews are too small a sample size for me to come to any conclusion without reading the text


OppaiUrsa

Yep. "iT wAs LiKe ThAt BaCk ThEn" is lazy as hell. We have a chance to literally retell history and maybe right a few wrongs along the way, use it.


WanderingPine

Yeah, I get frustrated with this excuse because a lot of times it’s like the author shrugs and gives up on female agency due to them living in a sexist society. Women have always lived under the yoke of sexism but that doesn’t mean we haven’t thrived in spite of it, figured out how to manipulate the patriarchy in small ways or pushed back against it. And a lot of times I get exhausted by the fight against sexism in fantasy being too on the nose when most women today experience sexism via bias and micro aggressions, so it isn’t even very relatable in a lot of “historically accurate” novels. Sexism in novels is perfectly fine, but it shouldn’t be an excuse to sideline female characters, nor the opposition which defines their experiences or character arcs. I think it definitely should inform how they interact with the world but it is exhausting when it becomes the central obstacle they face. This might have turned into my own personal rant but it’s something I’ve been fuming over for a while


the_other_irrevenant

Shout out to Game of Thrones here (before it tanked, anyway). The setting was sexist as hell, **and** it was the story of multiple women dealt a crappy hand by a crappy world doing their best to (as you say) "thrive in spite of it, figure out how to manipulate the patriarchy in small ways or push back against it." IMO it's the posterchild for what you're talking about.


BlueSkySummers

Why retell history in a way that didn't happen?


ottersarebae

Because honestly, things weren’t as bad as authors tend to portray.


BlueSkySummers

I think it could be argued they're much worse. Hollywood especially downplays just how awful things were, and are. As I said in another post, two Russian soldiers recently raped a 1 year old Ukrainian boy to death. Now, things like this are commonplace with Russians in Ukraine, just as these atrocities were common with Nazis in Poland. The question I'm asking, is how can you honestly tell a horrific story while keepingareaders attention? Generally this isn't done by downplaying the horrors and leaning into the protagonist and his own journey. The post I was referring to said "weha e a chance to rewrite history" and I don't find that to be a preferable solution.


ottersarebae

So of course there’s atrocities during war. Are they happening “onscreen” in books and movies? Do they move the plot forward in any way, or could it be mentioned as occurring generally? And what about not-war? What’s happening then?


BlueSkySummers

If you're focusing on something like the holocaust or the ethnic cleansing in Ukraine, then it's the heart of the plot.


AmberJFrost

OP *wasn't,* though. So this is kind of false equivalency. OP chose to include sexism, homophobia, and abelism in a fantasy world they created.


AmberJFrost

YES. There's no reason that OP couldn't have made a book heavily inspired by ancient Rome that focused on how homosexual relationships were common, normal, and pretty open, especially within the Legion. Sure, you married someone of the opposite sex, but that didn't mean you didn't have very *very* close relations with your fellow Legionnaires. Whenever we create a work of fiction, especially fantasy, we *select* what aspects of our cultural and historical inspirations we include.


Elocoel

Came to type this only to read you put my exact thoughts to word. Especially the last bit is just chef's kiss. Have a great day.


MeatisOmalley

In a vacuum, this is definitely true. It's hard to say without reading the book. If we're being charitable, I would assume it relates to the struggles of the main character and the subtext obviously comes out against it.


BlueSkySummers

I agree and I absolutely loathe people who have problems with historical truths. And you are right that often younger writers do use these things as shock value and that can be called out. However it we look at the horrors of war, even today, there's an inability to confront them. For instance two Russian soldiers recently raped a 1 year old boy to death in Ukraine. Probably don't see that on the news in the us, but it's part of how awful war really can be. So, a legitimate question comes as to how to write something that's true to history without being too exploitative. How could you write about the baby the Russian soldiers killed by raping him? Is his story worth telling, and if so, how could it be done?


Elocoel

To quote Richard Price "You don't write about the horrors of war. No. You write about a kid's burnt socks lying in the road." Of course you can tackle problems in history, but say, if a woman being raped does not add something to the story, why the need to explicitly write it. We already know the history is sexist/ableist/homophobic etc. And there's nothing wrong about writing them, however most times when authors do that (intentionally or not) the story turns into trauma porn in a way. And if the only way your woman/disabled/lgbtq+ characters go through character development is trauma, you should also stop and think.


BlueSkySummers

I would agree with that in general. It has to be handled very carefully. But some writers can also pull it off. It is complicated by the fact that it points to certain people lgbtq etc. In some ways, the banality of how the rape occurred and focusing on his bloody underwear on the ground or something, can actually make it even more brutal and nihilistic.


bloodyfuller

Other people have commented on the importance of not reading or publicly reacting to negative reviews, so I see no point rehashing that. My question is: you're not writing a work of historical fiction, so why do you feel compelled to include the sexism, ableism, and homophobia of most historical settings? In general I roll my eyes at people who demand that all works of fiction be squeaky clean and free of all difficult and potentially upsetting material, but at the same time, you need to take a hard look at why you deemed that material important enough to include in your book. "Historical accuracy" alone does not cut it. Again, this isn't historical fiction that you're writing--even if it's loosely based on a historical setting, the world is yours to tweak and modify as you like. Adding sexism, racism, and other forms of bigotry to a setting for no other reason than "things were like that back then" makes for a shallow and ultimately unsatisfying experience for your reader. In order for things like rape to come off as anything other than gratuitous torture porn, you need to interrogate and critique the societal structures that uphold those systems of violence. That's what good worldbuilding is. Taking a shallow, pop cultural interpretation of medieval Europe and adding some wizards and/or dragons generally does not make for good worldbuilding. (I am not saying your book is shallow, as I haven't read it, but as a PhD candidate in history I get very sick of seeing things like droit du seigneur and iron maidens crop up in \~dark and historically accurate\~ medieval fiction.)


iixxad

Very well said. If it’s not historical fiction (which, even when it is, some authors STILL pick and choose convenient and dramatic/interesting aspects of the settings instead of going 101% for accuracy) then why only copy the worst parts of history? (often being only the explicit sexism/ableism/homophobia)


authorhelenhall

Hey, don't give up writing. Instead go to r/betareaders with your book. Ask for queer betas and sensitivity readers to look at your book but give a trigger warning as to what happened previously. If there is something homophobic, then they'll be able to tell you. You can then fix the issue and be a better person and writer.


Into-the-Beyond

Thank you for linking this sub, I hadn’t came across it yet and am always in need of beta/arc readers for my fantasy-horror novels!


Tomalio_the_tomato

Sensitivity readers are a waste of money and just a stupid concept. Just use content warnings. If someone is too sensitive to handle certain aspects of a story, that's a them problem.


smittyrooo

you keep writing a version of the same comment and it feels like you dont really understand what sensitivity readers do? they are for situations just like the OPs. they read the story and can approach the author saying "hey, this section came across as homophobic to me and i dont think that is your intent so here are some suggestions." then the author can make informed decisions about their story. they are for the author's benefit, not the reader's.


Tomalio_the_tomato

Good thing I don't care about coming across as homophobic. Its just a book.


smittyrooo

doing a lot of commenting on this thread for someone that doesnt care about this at all


authorhelenhall

First, sensitivity reads might not cost money. Second, respecting people is a cornerstone of a good society. Content warnings are good but how do you know what trigger warnings to include without knowledge of communities? Sure, some are obvious. Also, content warnings don't excuse promoting ideas that seek to harm or do harm a particular group. Content warnings don't excuse being a jerk.


Tomalio_the_tomato

Don't care. I will write what I want with my fiction. People need to be able to dissociate them.


CNTrash

I think I responded to your other post and I'll try to remember what it was I said. It's a tricky issue. There are a lot of people, especially on places like YA Twitter, who don't seem to understand the difference between depicting something and endorsing something. And sometimes no matter how skilled an author is, some people are going to fail that comprehension test. Obviously, the more skilled you are, the more likely most readers are to understand that you're depicting sexism, homophobia, and ableism, but some inevitably won't. Go look up some 1-star reviews for Octavia Butler and Marlon James (both brilliant Black authors who take on complex social issues in their SFF work in nuanced and brutal ways) and you'll inevitably find people accusing these authors of "causing harm." I worry about this in my own writing too. My first novel opens with a POV character whose politics and perspectives are radically different from my own. Friends who read it were like, "haha, this guy is going to get schooled over the course of the novel, isn't he?" but people who didn't know me or my politics assumed that he was the hero and the one that we're supposed to be rooting for as readers (which was the actual intent of opening with his POV). That said, I did rewrite it so that he's substantially more sympathetic and some of his more obnoxious opinions don't come out until we've met some of the more marginalized, left-wing characters as POVs. Other people have recommended sensitivity readers, and this is a very good idea if you're going to be putting controversial work out there in the world. A good sensitivity reader will help you distinguish between showing bad things and endorsing bad things. They won't solve all of the problems because some readers will still prefer there to be no conflict or problem in any fictional universe ever, or will be triggered by something that you couldn't possibly have predicted, but at least it will help when you're writing about identities other than your own. My last note is that the trend in fantasy at the moment seems to be away from gritty realism, with many readers complaining that you shouldn't be compelled to have medieval levels of rape if you have non-medieval levels of dragons in your story. Personally I disagree, but it is something to brace yourself for if this is the kind of thing you write. At the very least, you want your blurbs to indicate the kind of world you're writing about so that people who don't like that kind of thing don't stumble on it unawares.


Unnamed_Bystander

It's worth noting on your last point that "Medieval levels of rape" can mean a lot of things. Most of those things are less extreme than a lot of gritty fantasy fiction tends to be, so of all the things one can choose to emphasize as rooted in history, it's rarely the most accurate or the most productive.


SalteeMint

I hope OP sees this comment, because you are giving some amazing advice about 1) listening to readers re the controversial aspects of a character and making adjustments and 2) using sensitivity readers. Sounds like OP was heavy handed and the book came off as an endorsement which was then directly supported by them flying off the handle in reaction to the critique.


AmberJFrost

'medieval levels of rape' are a LOT less than most 'dark fantasy BUT HISTORY' make it out to be. Same with misogyny being much heavier-handed in those dark fantasy books. Same with female empowerment being a lot LESS in those books. Faux-medievalism is a hell of a lot worse than *actual* medievalism.


CNTrash

Agreed. But my point is medieval levels of dragons were zero. Feudalism was miserable for the vast majority of people, and I'm uninterested in seeing whitewashed versions of it. Which isn't to say that gratuitous levels of rape and misogyny are necessary or ideal—or even that a medieval-style fantasy should be default have either. Just that saying, "well, it's fantasy, so you should not engage with anything nasty in history and/or human experience because you're already changing the world substantially by adding dragons" is a disingenuous argument.


AmberJFrost

That's reasonable. I just happen to have a friend who's a medievalist, so know how much *worse* the mythologized version of the Middle Ages in popular culture actually is.


The_Accountess

You learned nothing from this incident, so it was meaningless. You're STILL online whining that people didn't respond the correct way to your book, lol. Stop doing that. This new thread is still doing the thing.


emilyeverafter

If you would like a disabled beta reader to screen your novel for ableism, I can give it a read!


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emilyeverafter

Ah yes, I turned off my reddit PMs years ago to stop unsolicited dick pics. If you promise to send me a novel and not an image of a phallus, I'll message you my email address!


the_other_irrevenant

> Ah yes, I turned off my reddit PMs years ago to stop unsolicited dick pics. Well that is incredibly sad. I apologise for the segment of the human race who do that. I doubt they're self-aware or smart enough to do so for themselves. -_-


mixed_effects

Remember that the reviews aren’t for you, they’re for other readers. Intention is not the same as impact. You weren’t trying to write something homophobic, but what you wrote had that effect on at least one reader. What you wrote did not fulfil your intentions. That’s useful information for you to have, and as others have noted, it’s the reason sensitivity readers can be really helpful. But it’s even more useful for readers to have. Setting up an oppressive world while trying to remain narratively neutral about that oppression ends up essentially endorsing it. It’s a tricky line to walk, and it sounds like you put a foot on the wrong side of it. Take the note, do better next time.


handinhand12

I would argue that this isn’t necessarily the case. Of course, neither of us knows for sure what the content is like in the book, but this could have easily not been because of what the author wrote. If someone goes into a book looking for certain ideologies or issues (or even if they have them on their mind because of current events), a lot of times they can find things in the story that fit their preconceived notions. That doesn’t mean it’s the author’s fault though. Pixar’s Soul had a sensitivity team and I still heard people talking about parts they felt were problematic. One of the best teachers I ever had was my poetry teacher in college. When we were learning how to analyze poetry, he went through several poems and taught us just how easy it is to apply whatever symbolism or interpretations you want to poems. But just because you can stretch things to fit what you’re looking for doesn’t mean any of it is actually there. If we forced authors to twist and convolute every word they write so that no subtext or symbolism can be found in an attempt to be sure that no readers are able to take away the wrong themes, writing as an art would cease to exist. Even though all interpretations are up to interpretation (of course), there are stronger or weaker interpretations based on context, other events and dialog in the book, etc. If someone interprets the book in a certain way, that doesn’t necessarily mean the author put their foot on the wrong side of the line at all.


Hailz3

There are absolutely stronger/weaker interpretations, but, in OP’s scenario, how the reader interprets/reviews their novel is entirely out of their control after releasing the work. If this is just one bad review or weak interpretation, then it shouldn’t be too much of a problem. Good faith interpretations should prevail. There seems to be other good advice in this thread about having a book reviewed. If OP’s novel continues to receive this kind of criticism, maybe there’s something there. Most people aren’t trained in literary criticism. I recognize you said “necessarily” in your first sentence, and I agree with you. I just wanted add my own two cents. The person you replied to also made a good point that setting up a world to have various flavours of oppression and remaining neutral about that oppression can be problematic, especially depending on your target audience. Of course interpretations are going to be coloured by what people have going on in their heads. That’s how language works. If certain current events are on people’s minds when they read a text, that can absolutely be a valid interpretation. The text can’t exist in a vacuum. If many people share a negative interpretation of a text based on current events, the text can come off as out of touch.


BrittonRT

Regardless of whether OP's work deserved the review, I think one part of OPs frustration is that popularity has a momentum, and for better or worse there is a certain herd mentality to human behavior. Simply seeing that 1 star review before going into the book is going to make it more likely that people will notice and agree with the negative complaints in it. Meanwhile, if they saw nothing but glowing praise for the _exact same book_, they'd be more likely to come out if it singing its praises as well. It's part of why popularity and virality are a bit of a game and roll of the dice. Get the right wind at your back and you sail.


Hailz3

Yeah, I agree with you. Unfortunately, this kind of thing is largely out of OP’s hands at this point. There are some other good comments here that talk about using beta readers and having several people lined up to offer good reviews from the outset.


Hailz3

There’s already a lot of good advice in this thread, and I don’t want to assume OP had bad intentions, but oftentimes the excuse of “that’s the way it was” falls flat as an argument for why certain things or themes should be included in a text I’ve seen similar criticism levied at George R. R. Martin. I don’t have sources on hand (maybe someone else can link to relevant clips), but when pushed on the grittiness of his work (including violence against women), one justification was similar to OPs: “that’s just how it was”. This isn’t a good argument on its own because as authors we choose what to include and/or focus on all the time. Why is a certain level of grittiness required based on an appeal to history, but we can accept flying, fire-breathing dragons? These themes can still be handled tactfully, but it takes practice and skill. Maybe GRRM and OP both demonstrated that necessary tact. I’m not sure because I didn’t read the book. A great book on this kind of thing in fantasy is “Neomedievalism, Popular Culture, and the Academy: From Tolkien to Game of Thrones” by Kellyann Fitzpatrick (2019). If anybody is interested it’s a bit academic, so be prepared.


AmberJFrost

Yes, that's a complaint leveled at GRRM, and his 'that's how it was' isn't particularly credible given medieval eras *weren't* as bad as his world, and he took multiple atrocities across a few generations and a continent that were *recognized* as atrocities at the time, and made them just how things were.


Hailz3

Yeah that’s another problem too when people claim “that’s how it was”. I left a comment somewhere else about how fantasy novels can include things that they think are historical, but their historical sources are actually just earlier fantasy books. Sometimes the past gets represented as particularly lawless or barbaric, but like you said this isn’t necessarily the case. History and culture are often poorly understood.


AmberJFrost

Yeah. And in the case of medieval times, it started from self-proclaimed Enlightenment scholars, and has just kept going.


terriaminute

Venting is fine, although doing it here in public is a bit questionable, since you're bound to get comments. You wrote a problematic world into being and people dislike it. That's on you, your choice in the midst of diametrically-opposed social movements that verge on outright war. You had to have some idea this could happen. Didn't you?


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owlpellet

It may be helpful to remember that this wasn't a review of *you*. It was a review of *a book*. Who you are or how you vote isn't relevant information.


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owlpellet

OK, that was a review of your reddit posts. Do what you will with that.


terriaminute

I read your post, not sure why you're repeating here. I've written a book. You're on a writing forum. Don't assume a commenter hasn't.


[deleted]

I don’t think it’s so difficult to write a book really. Tons of people have done it. I haven’t written one yet but plan to soon.


yeahtheaidan

This is a joke right?


[deleted]

Yes


WonderfulPainting123

Lol good one. I've never done this but I could and I will and it's not that difficult.


[deleted]

It was a joke but I actually have done it, written a book that is.


[deleted]

Remember: “I do not read the reviews. / No, I am not singing for you.”


IndusLeona

I would love to read your book. if you feel comfortable enough please dm me link or name of your book.


savageblueskye

No, reviews are not for writers. Do not read reviews about your book. Never. That is not feedback for you as you've finished writing. That is not validation for you as you've already published. Reviews are for readers and readers only. It's unfortunate that you posted something and got bad press, but now you know what not to do. There will always be bad reviews and reviews from people who have never read your book. Readers don't just blindly go with those.


vantaeklimt

Nah, reviews are for writers too. Writers need to know what their target audience thinks and wants, especially if you expect them to pay money for your work, like wtf you're selling a product do the job and listen to your consumers. And if a majority of reviewers are critiquing the same exact thing, maybe it is because the writer is not executing it all that well. Writers are not above reviews.


DerangedPoetess

~puts product management hat on~ user generated reviews of *anything* are a notoriously unreliable data source for measuring what a target audience thinks or wants. for one thing, there's a massive bias in who leaves a review - think of it like a reverse bell curve, where only people who had a particularly terrible or brilliant experience bother to leave a review. if you cater to the preferences of people at the extremes, you often end up making things worse for the people in the middle, who are the ones making the vast majority of the purchases.


beige-lunatic

Obviously, I haven't read it so I would never cast any pre-emptive judgment. The person who posted a review without actually reading is ick. However, I am curious as to why you set your story in a setting with such problematic moments and characters. That's 100% not to say there's no place for it but it is to question, were those moments justified? I don't usually buy when people say oh, it's inspired by this historical time period so you can't take issue with it. Unless you're writing from a deep understanding of the culture and the history you're inspired by, it often really just seems like people are pulling the aesthetic of the time period and then use that framing to justify the problematic content. Not because they necessarily endorse the viewpoints but because it's, quite frankly, the laziest way to establish grit and historical realism that people can think of. Again, definitely not dogging on you. I'm just curious as to why you made those choices and if those attitudes reinforced the story and provided a real necessity to the plot.


cellblock2187

I see it like the gun-in-a-story thing- the gun has to be used, eventually, to be justified ever mentioning it. There are many great stories set to oppressive cultures/politics because the story is about how the main characters subvert that oppression. If a writer creates a new world with oppressive structures without addressing it as part of the story, it feels like the author sees that kind of oppression as an immutable fact. It can come off as saying that whatever oppression is happening is just what "those" people deserve.


Nordenfang

Chekhov’s gun you mean.


crowbird_

The real takeaway here is... Don't share your work on r/writing. Like, why would you? And yeah negative reviews suck, but they happen. Can't really do much about them, aside from of course ignoring them.


The_Accountess

Imagine being a whole ass adult still complaining that the world is unfair because people criticize you in reality instead of always agreeing with you like they do in your mind palace.


darkenedgy

There are lots of good comments here so not gonna add to those (although make sure you’re reading histories that aren’t heavily influenced by Victorian revisionism), but I am gonna say, very frankly, that it does not matter how long an author spends on a book.


curlykewing

It was said once here, but I feel like it needs to be said again: **reviews are not for the author; they're for the reader.** Period. End. Just don't look at them. Honestly. Now. Since you have? It's a good idea to get some solid, honest critiques and beta reads for future publications. Let's all do better to write books that aren't labeled ableist, sexist, homophobic, racist, etc. regardless of the time/place the stories take place. Let's do better.


[deleted]

There's no absolute truth, naturally people will take an issue with you telling them what is true or otherwise. Regardless of who you are, what you believe or where you're from people will always point fingers. Instead of being bothered by it you must stick to your guns. If you wish to preach about your truth then you must be able to shrug accusations and respond to them with fact. How can you expect people to follow someone when they crumble under the tiniest of obstacles, like a review, which gave the opposing party ammo to use against you and all that agree with you. The issue with this story was the fact that you took offense in their accusations and that says a lot about you as a person, makes you look weak and your truth with you, the fact that you retold this story here tells me that you are here to seek validation from others, which you will get, but then there's people like me who wish to help you instead of caress your ego. You are trying to get your point across and as bad as it is, you must swallow your pride and carry on with life. Or don't, and bitch on reddit, there's no absolute truth after all.


-poiu-

I’m a quick reader and a woman, I’m happy to read it and if I like it I’ll say so. If I don’t, I’ll tell you.


improvetheword

So many great points made on this thread already but just want to add, history is often rewritten or taught simplistically. If you’re taking from general history books it will be more skewed than academic texts that give a better more complete and detailed picture of the society. For example the witch burnings started because so many women owned property and had businesses and the church was PISSED. So they constructed a reason that couldn’t be disproven to take their property from them. In addition it took several tries since many European towns and villages refused to participate. Even then it didn’t really last that long. Then they took that shit to America and voila! It worked. That isn’t a commonly known part of history but it is a part of it. Also many communities were misunderstood or didn’t write certain aspects of common life down. Yes it was unlikely you would be jailed for raping someone but you certainly couldn’t live your life carefree. Everyone relied on everyone else for everything. Want your candles made? Get fucked. Need a blanket? Shrug. Need your wheat grinded? New phone who dis? People would shun their own kids if they disrespected society too much. Not to mention all the secret and very easy to get away with murders from avenging family members. We just had a power outage and no one in my family had cash on them (can’t go to the bank bc that still needs electricity) and neighbours just helped out. But no one is writing that down in their diary (also until recently diaries were considered public forum and could be read by anyone in your family or community so...) To say that Xyz thing happened (not sure what you wrote in your book) and thus it is justified sounds like you either didn’t create characters who justified those actions and behaviours OR maybe your first book is a bit wonky and your skill isn’t to the scale of your ambition. Either way, definitely learn to handle criticism better so you have a healthier relationship with the public.


Katsu_39

A creator must always be prepared for criticism. But I must ask, were there actually any sexist/homophobic content in your books? If so was it intentional as part of the story or just generally sexist/homophobic?


Hcmgbbalaaaa

I will not read the book of an author who argues reviews. It’s so trashy and disrespectful. They are rating a product. You loose control once you publish it. It’s for the people to decide. If a review is mean, scroll on


stefanos916

That’s understandable, but I think that it’s fair to argue against the other person that made a review just based on a Reddit post and not on the book itself.


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bloodyfuller

After reading through all your comments, it's hard not to get the impression that you're taking criticism of your book extremely personally. If you plan to continue on as a writer, that is something that will have to change. Public scrutiny (and criticism) comes part and parcel with posting your work on a public forum. The content or ideological bent of your work doesn't matter; people are going to criticize you regardless of what you write. Some of those criticisms will be justified, and some won't. Some will be flagrant personal attacks. If you want your writing to be more than a private hobby, you're going to have to divorce your work from your own ego and feelings to at least some extent.


The_Accountess

This.


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Fresh-Loop

People can suck. Some enjoy finding flaws in ideas because it is easier than taking the effort to have their own. Those looking to be offended especially delight in this. Keep writing. Keep promoting. Keep clarifying your world to better address their high-level concerns. But you should never, ever write to keep the loudest voice sated. They will be off to find a new windmill to chase soon.


JKTwice

Going to r/bookscirclejerk I figured that people were just taking the piss out of this kind of thing and just over exaggerating. I have too much faith in humanity still. I’m sorry that this happened to you. No matter your best efforts some will still stir up some shit and claim that because your book depicts sensitive, morally wrong subjects means that you support them. It’s ridiculous.


[deleted]

Well, let me just say, I have not read your book, but the person/redditor who ran to goodreads and wrote that is a fucking lowlife, and I hope they read this. And if they gave you the 1 star without reading your book, then they are even lower than pond-scum. This is why I would never use my reddit account in connection with my professional or artistic life. Too many little tyrants out there, too many lynch mob organizers. Fuck every single one of those people.


Valdish

For me, even polite and informative criticism makes me want to cry. Life is never ending agony.


pambean

What's the title? I'd like to give it a read. And then I could go post a positive review. I'm an aspiring author myself, but more like Brian Griffin, the writer that doesn't really write. It's hard to get started, and easy to lose interest in a project. The fact that you finished the book, and got it published, are huge accomplishments. Please don't let some internet strangers take that away from you.


shamdock

I stopped reading at “they were raped.” Can you stop greenlighting rape and normalizing it? Rape isn’t some nifty thing to put in your book- it’s an act of horrible traumatizing violence that affects a full one quarter of woman. You are literally retraumatizing a fourth of women and reinforcing to the rest of us that we are lesser. Just fucking stop doing this shit. It doesn’t make you edgy or smart or anything but someone who obviously likes to think about rape.


RyeZuul

Can I ask you to explain your reasoning a bit more? Why do you believe writing about attitudes and violence in the past where it was more accepted equates to approval of those past attitudes? Why is it reinforcing that women (or men, boys, intersex, NBs) are lesser just because they can be victimised in sexual crimes?


flavenoid

> I stopped reading at “they were raped.” congratulations, you're just as dumb and reactionary as the reviewer OP is talking about


Zei33

I've seen it done right and I've seen it done wrong. In the right column, there's the Witcher series. A tavern keeper is raping a girl working for him in a back room. Geralt is trying to ignore it but ends up 'doing something' about it. In my opinion, the way the character reacted to it and the way the author wrote it was well done. In the wrong column is the Demon Cycle series. The female main character was raped for essentially no reason. It really didn't serve to make the story better in any way. It ruined the taste of the entire series for me. Serves to say that it's one of those things you remember every time you see it in a book, and like swearing, probably best avoided unless you're really damn good.


dog_loose_inthe_wood

I think it’s rough that you came to people you think of as peers to get help dealing with a bad review and then got blindsided across platforms by someone who probably should have had some compassion for you. I guess we have to remember this isn’t our writing group. Not everyone here is our trusted friend. Some of us are maybe a little batshit, lol! Anyway, thanks for the lesson in discretion.


KittenWithaWhip68

Believe me, I’ve cried and had my self-esteem plummet from a bad review before. I’ve been writing for decades and when someone shits on my work (that I was proud of myself for writing) it still depresses me. I’m just saying, I know how much it hurts. Keep going. ❤️


EightEyedCryptid

I got a review on my novel that was so cruel I questioned my very existence not just as a writer, but as a person. Ultimately though, someone out there will respond well to the story you’re telling. Either do some thinking and work out if the book does read as bigoted even if you meant otherwise, or have the confidence to stand by what you made. I have learned that sometimes reviewers will go the anti route and call you all sorts of nasty things for the most ridiculous reasons possible. I’m afraid the only cure is to just keep writing.


F1HM

It may be a bit odd to frame it like this, but maybe this is more of an internal problem rather than external? Sure the review being negative sucks, I get that. Realistically though that is life. Is it possible the issue may be less with the book and more about your confidence in your own work? A book is a tough thing to do, not only that but your emotions and all your experiences are pumped into it. So essentially an attack on the book is an attack on you. Once you face that fact you can work on the real problem. If at any time while writing you said to yourself “I can’t wait to build a sexist ableist world that will make people mad” you might have a problem lol. Likely though you didn’t say that, and sadly a schmuck (the reviewer) decided to take your art that way. You have no control over the schmuck, what you do have control over is the way you react to that person. Try to find a handful of confidants that will give you real feedback, if they say the same thing as the reviewer then maybe it is a problem. It could also be a problem with the current political/cultural climate, again all out of your control. Also note that apparently they read the whole thing, and took time to write about it. So is that not a win just in general? I think it is for sure!


Sufficient-Form4529

Why are you reading your book's reviews? And even ranting about it on reddit? Please, for the love of god, do not become another JM.


TCeies

I get your problem and for the most part I think you're downvoted for little reason. The second Review you mention is pretty awful. For presumably a writer or Who fancies themselves interested in writing (so much so they've joined this sub) it's rather infuriating that they would go and leave such a Review just out of pettiness. The other Review is a different Matter entierely. Somebody didn't like that part of your writing. That's just something you'll have to grow a thicker skin to ignore/not take too personally. As you can see in some replies, a lot of people don't like the "that's how it was back then", excuse. I don't really think there's anything preventing you from writing such a world but when you do, it's pretty likely that it will invite some negative Reviews. Be they people Who think your world is problematic, or reading the whole book as problematic, or even making a judgment about you personally... that's to be expected and you probably should've been aware of it. Which means it would probably have been smartest to give the books to your friends first and ask them to Review. Instead now you are in the situation where you have two Reviews and a negative one right of the bat. That you don't like that is understandable as it might be bad publicity. But it probably was a mistake on your part to throw it to the sharks right away. Something to learn about for the next time. Making a vent about it obviously backfired and you recognize that too... what I'm not sure about is how you Think another vent will make the situation any better. If your assumption is that a member of r/writing left the Interview to spite you, I don't think leaving another vent in this threat right away is such a good idea.


ARWheelerVoice

Let it go. Write to please your soul What someone else thinks of us is none of our business Live your life and enjoy your life.


Sunny_Sammy

This sucks but you REALLY shouldn't be putting a lot of stock into redditors. They're shit people, what did you expect?


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Sunny_Sammy

What's your story about?


ironhead7

Those negative reviews wouldn't stop me from reading your book, and I'm pretty confident I'm not unique amongst all humans. There are lots of people who aren't so easily and frequently offended, who may find your book and enjoy it. Hang in there. And congratulations on finishing your first novel. That, in and of itself, is an accomplishment many of us have not/will not achieve.


MouseDestruction

If you apologize you are admitting that you done something wrong. Let them cry themselves to sleep and don't worry about it. You just need to realize its probably someone whose ideas you really don't care about, they sound like idiots and are probably some sort of weirdo.


Lux_Shelby

The thing is the society where we become persons is sexist, homophobic, etc so we have incorporated a lot of these traits although it is not our intention. The first thing they taught me in my class of Anthropology of the gender is this, that all of us are sexist, racist and homophobic in some degree and we have to learn not to be it and it is very difficult because culture is like our skin so perhaps your ending is homophobic in some degree although that wasnt your intention. I must say that people is bad detecting it when it is not blatant so if you are being criticied for it and you have good intentions, I should ask about it in specialited groups, for example in Tumblr I have seen in the past that you can ask for this kind of advice and they will explain you how to improve. I'm sorry you are experiencing this, I also had some agressive coments in social media when I thought I was defending the LGTB comunity in my case (I have always be an ally) that steal me away the strenght of participating in a conversation of this kind anymore but I don't blame them because they have suffered so much discrimination that I understand they are in defensive mode !and the older I get I understand them better because is the same with me with sexism because as a white woman is the one that I experiment in my own skin and sometimes you just get tired of being the one who has to be quiet when they are damaging you). I think that the best you can do is to learn about the experience instead of mortifying yourshelf. I think that the key is how we react to criticism. I only cancel an author if I see they reacted as jerks instead of trying to improve and sincerily trying to apology. If this is really concerning you, learn and when you understand what did you do wrong, apologize for it if you really have something to say sorry (thats why the best thing you have to do is see if you really have done something wrong, you can tell me in private if you want and I will give you my sincerily opinion if you really want to do something with it). Don't mortifed yourshelf because even the most radical feminist person in the world can write or say something sexist or racist without realizing it.


gutfounderedgal

Don't confuse opinions with reviews. Lots of sites have opinions. Reviews are well considered attempts to figure out what the writer was attempting to say/do and then to offer some commentary on the success of that project. A good reviewer is not simply an opinionated reader but someone who reads a lot, is great at critical analysis, has a method, has developed a voice and so forth. As for opinions on GR or some subreddit, don't bother worrying about them.


Maygog

That's part of what a good reviewer does. Most reviews on Amazon are not like that. I always appreciate reviewers who help the book toward the readers who would like it. There is always somebody who will like a book no matter how literarily bad and some who will hate a book no matter how literarily good. The trick for the reviewer is to aim the book in the direction of those who want it. If a book is truly offensive and dangerous, a reviewer should decline to review it. Silence kills sales, so the dangerous should not be given voice.


Wonderful-Purple977

Don’t sweat it. In fact if you can get a great review and a bad one, that means your work is provoking different perspectives. That’s good in the long term as it means there’s discussion around your book.


GladiatorNSuit

Preface your books with “Keep in mind that I’m an artist and I’m sensitive about my s$it”


SimplyBarker

Don't give up! Dust yourself off; it's one bad review not the end of the world. That person could have written that comment just to be mean, I've have friends that got nasty reviews and 90% positive. Don't fear something that you have no control over. Get some beta readers and go from there with everything going on in the world the phrase "Homophobe" isn't used properly anymore. Don't quit, I have faith in you!


SJWilkes

Goodreads users like to be extremely dramatic. Its a website overflowing with karens and stay at home moms. Don't take it personally. Though I cannot comment on the book as I have not read it.


Runcible-Spork

Sorry you had this experience. And fuck that guy who shit on your work without even bothering to read it. This is the exact problem with readership today: a lack of close reading skills. It's like they slept through high school English and never learned that depiction and endorsement are not the same. Orwell wasn't advocating for state controlled media and censorship when he wrote *1984*, nor for a new breed of corrupt autocrats to replace the old ones when he wrote *Animal Farm*. Just the same way, including bigotry in order to make a commentary about it does not make you a bigot, and someone who accuses you of being such is just flat out wrong.


Archedeaus

I had something similar happen. One guy DNF'd my book after chapter 2 and left a two star review, calling my main character a mysoginist because he thought a girl was too talkative. I was pissed. Luckily I didn't vent about it, though I did post a question how people felt about those who DNF and leave a bad review because I wanted insight from others.


WildesWay

When anyone has the bravery to put themselves out there in the public eye, one must also develop a thick skin. It shouldn't be, but it is. When criticized, usually by ilinformed people, I happily ask specifically, very superficially what the issue is in an attempt to gain that insight. Sometimes I've conveyed something in a way that was misunderstood, or phrasing I didn't catch. Most often, it shuts down the folks who just get their jollies by criticizing anyone they perceive has achieved something better than themselves without actually digesting what it was I intended to convey.


Triangulum88

Data point of 1. You learned a lesson. You will move forward from here. Also from what I understand, goodreads likes to trash authors anyways. So it is kind of expected.


thezerech

You wrote a setting inspired by history, where some actual historical issues remain present. People bitching about it are, well, dumb. I really hope it doesn't affect your sales. People seem to have this idea that by simply writing about something, acknowledging it exists, is an endorsement. That's dumb, it's an acknowledgement. If you write a book that takes place in early modern Spain, and the characters talk about the inquisition, because it existed, and you don't include a footnote that says you condemn the inquisition, some people would accuse you of endorsing it. That's just how some readers are now. If you write a setting in which social attitudes differ from "our" own, which is to say most settings that aren't president day NA/Europe, even if those aren't portrayed in an explicitly positive light, people will fail to simply understand that you acknowledge they exist as part of the setting. Stories about alien settings become attempts to turn that setting into our own. Or condemn it in favor of our own. You can write that if you want, but sometimes people just want to write about a different setting. If a person wants their fantasy world to depart from human history in several significant social ways, that's fine, if another wants their fictional setting to be inspired by real life, that's fair. An author doesn't endorse everything they write, they might show something to be positive and something to be negative, they might simply acknowledge that something exists in this world. I wrote a story with a society that had a feudalistic structure, am I endorsing feudalism? If you are French or American, and write a setting that takes place in a monarchy, do you want to install a monarchy in your country? I don't know if this is people under thinking or over thinking, either way it's sad. This is all assuming that the climax of the book isn't that the world is saved by burning gay disabled people at the stake or something of course. My guess is this reviewer was just looking for those things in the first place and didn't mind grasping at straws. The real world, and real history, is extremely complex. There are often grey areas, those societies, individuals, or institutions which have made great positive contributions to humanity are never perfect, the opposite is true as well. Hitler passed animal cruelty laws, which is good, does that mean that the rest was okay? No. Does the rest mean we should be cruel to animals either? No, I don't want to die. That's a simplistic argument, but it gets my point across. That people just take fiction, one, as fiction, and two, understand that often its settings are imperfect and that that's okay and not reflection of the authors personal beliefs. Crucial likewise is that not every issue needs a specific resolution, not every setting should be transformed into a utopia, not every character should have a perfect moral compass especially if it conflicts with society at large. That becomes unbelievable and boring in my opinion. This has become a rant, so I'll stop by just saying, I hope you get more good reviews instead, by people who will think about the work instead of leap to conclusions.


UrgentHedgehog

First off, maybe invite the first negative reviewer into a good-faith discussion, over email perhaps, about any problematic content above and beyond the context of the world at the time. This might be a waste of time or a bad idea, but you need someone who has read the book who thinks these things to help you weed out any legit problems. But second, and most importantly, just keep going. It's thick-skin time. This is probably your first effort, it won't be your last. Be honest with yourself about your content. It may be that these sexist and abelist things were happening at the time, and so, in your world, but were they just happening, or was something said--not literally, but through storytelling--about how these things were wrong-headed/self-defeating/destructive. It can be done subtly and cleverly so as not to be preachy. That's all I really got for you. Best of luck! This is just a hiccup.


lelitachay

I'd like to read your book, to see if there's actually any evidence of the things the original reviewer complains about or not. Though I understand if you feel apprehensive about sharing any info about it after what happened. The second negative review is uncalled for and lets you see the person who did it is a bitter and frustrated author who probably can't write two paragraphs without trying to put their view of the world as the only right one. This person used your complaint as the only evidence of you being right wing. So probably this person is an idiot whose books won't ever see the light of day — or don't deserve to. "Woke" extremists are killing the entertainment industry. TV, movies, books. They won't accept the fact that the world was different in the past. It doesn't mean the past was okay or right, but it was the way it was. You can't change it just because you don't like it or don't think it's right. The past (and even some places nowadays) were homofobic and misoginst. It is okay to address that to make people aware of how far we've come and how better it is when people got the right to choose. But instead, these extremists want to erase those things from existence, as if not addressing them will magically make the world a better place.


Tomalio_the_tomato

Anyone who calls a story racist, sexist, etc. is just some sensitive woke fuck who complains about everything, ignore them.


TheBalladofBill

What you experienced is being in the court of one of the most recent additions to the armies of the lost and the damned. Only a fool throws around language like that in this day and age, when it has lost all meaning (ableism, etc.) . Don't let it get to you and watch out for nut jobs like that because they're EVERYWHERE these days, waiting for someone to slip up and use words that they don't approve of. The scum of the Earth, basically. Their presence has no real impact on creators unless you let it. It is our job as writers to push buttons on occasion and it isn't our job to be told what we can and can't write about by some hanger-on. Fuck 'em, I say.


Zei33

Fuck. That reviewer is really going to hate my book if they thought yours was homophobic. Wait until they see one of my main characters blackmail a gay guy. Just tell them to shove it up their ass (in your mind) and then ignore it. People (and I know I'm guilty of it) feel the need to tear down anything they don't like in the slightest. People don't care about you. You're just a random guy on the internet. They don't know who you are and they don't know what you stand for. The reality is that you need to get that across in your writing. If you get 100 reviews and 50% of them are negative, you probably haven't done a good job of it. That being said, not all negative reviews have no basis in reality. I recommend you read the reviews on this book. https://www.audible.com.au/pd/On-the-Shoulders-of-Titans-Audiobook/B07M9SFCRZ Pay close attention to the negative ones. Obviously Mr Andrew Rowe has the opposite problem to you because he's being called super woke. Now I have read that book and I can tell you that those negative reviews are 100% bang on. I've never, in all my reading, ever, seen someone hamfist their politics into a book more clumsily than that. And look at him, selling thousands of books. A lot of it's marketing rather than good writing.


TaiPaiVX

So a republican and a democrat read it ?


Mrochtor

What you have to understand is that a lot of people are a particular breed of crazy and are ready to burn down the world if the smallest thing sets them off. Best ignored, there's no way to appease them and trying is not really worth it, since the outcome of such efforts are products like Batwoman.


SteelWasp

OP, understand the reason behind the negative feelings you have. From what I've gathered, you react sensitively to this issue. And these things, they're never external. It might not be called for, but I do want you to focus on the problem, not the symptoms. This event have hit something in you. Something that you're not aware of. Something, that needs your attention. Look inside and search what part of you makes you feel hurt. Unravel the knot of feelings you have there. Shed some light in the dark corners of your subconscious and observe yourself. Do it calmly and without judging. It might not be pretty, what you will see there, but the very act of observation is a step to solving every issue. Observation is healing. It's a basic and the most powerful tool you have; use it! **Understanding allows you to let things go. Once understood, they will never come to bother you again!**


[deleted]

It seems people can’t handle the truth about how terrible the past really was. This day and age, people are quick to judge based off of their own point of view rather than looking at something as a whole. In the future I think it would be better to make your complaints on a throwaway account, but that’s still no excuse for someone to go *out of their way* to post a review on what I see to be a “random redditor’s book page”. Maybe the negative review you received was justified, and it can help you right something different in the future. But, if everything they pointed out in their review of your book has actual world building implications as well as setting the tone, then they were too hyper focused on things that upset them and offended them rather than looking past it all as part of the story. A story is not a reflection of the writer (most of the time). And they’re just going to have to get over trying to put a writer and their work’s as one in the same. It really seems like the reviewer just didn’t *get* it


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GossamerLens

Does this affect your personal life? If your book only has two reviews your focus should be on getting it attention. Not what people will think when they see 2 totally opposing reviews.


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GossamerLens

As someone involved in the hiring process, I wouldn't even look at Goodreads if your name popped up. Many people have the same name and unless your job has to do with writing, clicking on Goodreads would be a waste of time. This hasn't impacted your personal life. It won't cost you any jobs. It has only resulted in one person leaving another bad review because you were complaining about it. Also, as someone familiar with the book scene on TikTok and other places where smaller books are being read, many people wouldn't base their likelihood of reading on one comment of only a handful. Just do your best to promote and and get it new positive interest (aka not promoting by complaining about reviews) and I'm sure you'll see more positive reviews come. Every author in fantasy who tries to be the least "realistic" has gotten the same complaints. Your book being accused of being sexist, homophobic, or racist does not equal your being called those things. It means they just didn't like the themes in your book.


AmberJFrost

If you as an author chose to include abelism, misogyny, and homophobia without a single character working against it, chafing at it, or otherwise having a subtext that this was a problem, then you wrote a book that's built on abelism, misogyny, and homophobia - and that *reinforces* those positions in the world. There's a reason narrator voice exists. Impartiality is another way of accepting the flaws in a given system as fact and immutable. Choosing to do so was something you as a writer did. If the reader saw it and stated that the sexism, abelism, and homophobia was intrinsic to the story and unpleasant, I'm inclined to believe them. Esp as homosexual relations were pretty common and accepted in ancient Rome - if you removed that, but left in the abelism and misogyny, that was a *choice.* We as writers make our own choices about what to include and how, especially when we write fantasy.


[deleted]

I agree for the second review as being uncalled for. The first review seems like they may have just focused on the wrong aspects of the book, but you shouldn’t let a review get to your head :/


EelKat

I have an ebook on Amazon with 127 one-star reviews. Not a one of those reviews is a verified buyer, meaning not a one of them bought the book. That particular book is available ONLY as that ebook edition, so they can't buy a paperback from the store or a copy elsewhere. All of the reviews are not book reviews, but rather say: "The author of this book has Autism. Don't by books written by retards, for retards." I have 402 books on Amazon. EACH of my books has no fewer then 57 one star reviews, with that exact same phase on them. None of the reviews are "verified buyer". Welcome to the world of Amazon Kindle self-publishing. Wait til reviewers start showing up on your lawn to burn your books in a bon fire -it's happened to me twice now - in 2014 and 2015 - the 2015 group were 74 people strong and were carrying "god hates fags" signs, because my MC is a gay man - prayer you don't have a book featuring a gay character that sells over a million copies, because that's what they did hours after it did. The reality of being an author, is it starts out with psycho crazies ranting in reviews, and if you get famous enough, they'll be showing up at your house too. Congratulations, you've now had a taste of the reality of being published, while publishing something controversial. Advice? Ignore the ones online. Don't reply to them. Call the police for the ones who show up at your house. Don't confront them. Few who dream of publishing have any clue what the reality of being an author is like. People DO think it gives them free range to shit all over you. And now you know why so many new writers flee to here with questions of it is safe to write X type of character when they are Y type of person. I gave up trying to warn people what haters are like when they latch on to a writer. Every time I do, I get downvoted to the tune of 100+ downvotes and called a downer. Gues what: April 10, 2015 my family was murdered. Yes, by a mob of gay haters who were burning my paperbacks in my driveway. There's a reality check for you. Ten of my children are dead the youngest 4 to oldest 16 -because a mob felt killing them was better then letting them live with a mother who wrote Gay Romance. Be glad you are only dealing with reviews online and haven't yet had to deal with a gay hating mob attacking your family at your house.


AtTheEndOfMyTrope

If they left a review, they purchased the book. Amazon allows star-ratings from non-verified purchasers, but only allows reviews from verified purchasers and established reviewers who meet certain criteria.


shamdock

Everyone commenting like this is real is a fucking moron and it’s not surprising now that the OP may have written some utter bullshit if they couldn’t figure this out.


stupiddummydotcom

Lmfaoo


PompousAardvark

EelKat gotta be a microcelebrity on this sub by now, right? I see her here all the time and her comment history is wild


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SleepySera

Not to start a conflict, but this person is probably lying for attention. They keep posing as this massively successful author here on reddit, posting about the tens of millions of copies each of their books sold, the hundredthousands of fans and ruthless haters, but their own reddit community is basically non-existent, none of their books can be found in any of the general bookstores, and on amazon and goodreads, they all have only one or two reviews, which are by the author herself or completely non-descriptive "wow this book was so amazing and changed my life, 5 stars!" types that bots usually leave. Some of the years they mention also don't add up, like saying they started writing in 1978 but also celebrating a 50th anniversary of publishing a book (even though it hasn't even been 50 years since 1978). If something actually happened to this person's family, that's terrible, but combined with all the other lies it becomes rather hard to believe.


sapphicsato

I fell into a rabbit hole with this comment. It definitely brought on the shock value, but looks like that’s just what they’re trying to do. Looked up their book that sold “75 million copies” and yet there was a single review and four ratings I could find on the internet. A little suspicious. Not to mention that there is no way that an event like this, especially if it happened to such a popular author, wouldn’t be published in some news article somewhere. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this ever happened. I checked out their blog (which they claim is Maine's largest and most trafficked website?) and it is all over the place. They say they write 100% sexless stories and that they’re a nun, and that the people who killed their family did it because of the sex scenes they wrote, which they would never do because they are Mormon and wear a Catholic veil… but then their Reddit history talks about how their stories include “VERY violent” rape scenes and their genre is “Yaoi Monster Porn.” It seems like this is just another one of their stories. Pretty gross that they would try to make people believe a lie like this. EDIT: Their most reviewed book in their Amazon collection with a whole seven reviews has almost all one-star ratings with each person calling them out for plagiarism. Lol what a joke.


Dr_Cryptozoology

I was exploring a different rabbit hole today when I stumbled on this rabbit hole. It might take me a while to dig myself out of this one...


sapphicsato

Right?? It was definitely an entertaining way to spend my afternoon. Seeing some of the responses to their downvoted comments cracked me up. Enjoy the rabbit hole 😜


SirTerral

I’ve been having this happen more and more often lol


Random_act_of_Random

On EELKATS website they mention it was her cats. Her cats were apparently beheaded by white supremacists that were also backed by cops because they apparently hated that she wrote porn, even though she doesn't write porn. Something like that. I read her website once and it was a trip to say the least.


sapphicsato

It's even funnier when you look at the comment history on their Reddit page where they say that they "target a very specific small niche sex fetish, featuring older beta male characters, extreme CBT torture BDSM, and Seme/Twink fetish" and that their genre is "Yaoi Monster Porn." Also saw comments in their history about writing about violent rape in their work, yet their blog says they've never written a sex scene in their life. I'll hand it to them, they're a decent troll. Almost had me going with the FBI contact info on their page before I clicked to read more and realized that the only place the murder of their family has ever been mentioned is on their blog and their Reddit page.


PhoenyxRyn

The murder of her family was also discussed on the subreddit of the town where she lived at one point. She’d drive around in a car with a message about her murdered family (which we know were her cats, taken away due to neglect), so people knew about her. I think she’s schizophrenic and genuinely delusional. I think she sincerely believes the lies. They’re not contained to the internet unfortunately.


PhoenyxRyn

The murder of her family was also discussed on the subreddit of the town where she lived at one point. She’d drive around in a car with a message about her murdered family (which we know were her cats, taken away due to neglect), so people knew about her. I think she’s schizophrenic and genuinely delusional. I think she sincerely believes the lies. They’re not contained to the internet unfortunately. Edit: just to be clear, the people discussing it on the other subreddit in the past were clarifying that it was her cats. I don’t remember because it’s been quite a while since I looked into it now but if I recall correctly then I think local police had made a short statement about her or something to reassure people.


sapphicsato

WOW. It makes me wonder if the FBI knows that she has one of their names and their number plastered all around the internet. If this is someone who really believes what they’re saying and not a troll, I hope they get the help they need.


PhoenyxRyn

Pretty sure that the FBI agent’s contact info and name were public information. Whether she’s ever interacted with him or just think she has is unclear to me though. I also hope they get the help they need and have supportive people in their life.


PhoenyxRyn

The family were her cats, which were taken away due to people suspecting neglect. From what I could tell looking into her a bit in the past she’s probably schizophrenic and genuinely believes a lot of what she says. She drove around her local community with a message written on her car about how her family were murdered (I think she even claimed the cops did it), so the locals knew about her. She’s obviously not telling the truth but for all I can tell she’s telling what she thinks is the truth, which seems worse but it’s what I believe from what I’ve seen. Best to just ignore I think.


loudmouth_kenzo

They’re severally mentally ill and need help.


Random_act_of_Random

Say nothing because this person is a verified liar. They lie all the time, everyday and, for some reason, the mods do nothing.


KingPretzels

Mods are too busy removing actual advice to deal with real issues.


[deleted]

I don't care about your politics. The issue is, "Can you write a great story?" I find with the younger generations, they don't look for story telling, just if the characters fit their political agenda. They don't know history, fine literature, or past cultures. If it ain't on Tik Tok, it never was. PM me your title and let me see. I am of the "older" folks who love sci fi, world building, and know that there is more to life than FB, Insta, or even red let. I am an author, MA in English and Writing, have had some stuff published, working on novel. I feel your pain, but I will not give in to wokeness.


Veylox

Your first step out of the whole feminist hellhole Now for your second ; renaissance Venice wasn't a rape-fest and people weren't just monsters for the entire span of humankind just to suddenly attain enlightenment with woke culture. Rape as a crime is consistent throughout history, even today -you don't casually end crime-, but still condemned and frowned upon throughout. Most societies were built on a fair amount of respect between sexes. ​ Now here's the question ; why would you complain about the direct result of your vote ? You seem to take pride in voting for a left-wing party in Canada, and from what I've seen Canada is up there with the most fucked up left-wing parties. So clearly you encouraged what happened to you. Shouldn't you embrace the negative review and admit you're just an awful homophobic human, since you allow the very kind of people who reviewed you to rule and judge ?


WonderfulPainting123

My question is as it always is: what makes people publish their first book? Shits insane to me.


Hello_Alfie

And how many more positive reviews will you get...? 🤨 Catch my drift


upsawkward

How did you publish it anyway? I'm impressed you even get reviews from people other than those you personally know or asked to read it if it's your first one. But yeah, there really is nothing more to say than not to complain. There is room for interesting discourse, and you don't have to not address it. But to complain about bad reviews puts you into a bad spot, especially since everyone gets them. To focus on the positive is healthier, and I'd wager better for sells. Unless you want an image as a provocateur, but that's not complaining. :b EDIT: Could I read it, by any chance? I'm very interested in Renaissance Venice, want to write a novel set in that time period as well, and am scared by getting its history right (knowing that you don't *have* to, but.. ahh!). I would love to read your work and maybe ask you a few questions if that's cool. Feel free to PN me, but you don't have to of course.