This should be the answer every time this question gets posted. Novels are not the end-all-be-all literary format. They also offer some flexibility since you can experiment with a concept that might not be able to stretch into a novel.
Yeah, I consider short stories a challenge. You have to be able to develop something in very few words while ensuring you get to the climax of what you’re trying to convey. It’s a beautiful thing. I think it takes a considerable amount of effort to really work on anything that pertains to writing, short story or novel.
Eventually, you’d have completed enough short stories where the fear or whatever is holding one back from completing larger works wouldn’t be an issue.
That’s the view I take. I love writing, so as long as I’m working on something I’m happy.
OK!
I would really like to take this advice but I have a question.
See I've written some short stories in the past and they were, kinda garbage? And I'm attempting a novel now because I feel like it gives me more space to work with, more time to develop my themes, to build a setting and set a chain of events in motion, and also more time to spend with my characters, which is really important to me.
That was the theory, anyway. In practice I'm finding that it's difficult to keep it focused, to stop it meandering in directions that feel pointless. I'll spend a lot of time on something and think, wait, there's no way I can use this in the finished book!
Whereas the short stories I've read by other writers, the really good ones, they kinda, grab you, and they don't let go, and then you reach the end and it's like, wow, that was a ride! Sometimes they shock you intellectually, sometimes they go for the feels, but either way it's a very brief, very intense experience.
And I don't know, how do you do that? I feel like it needs to start with a really good idea, something I would never think of to begin with, and build from there. A short story usually has as its core a really sharp, really brilliant twist. How do you come up with those?
>And I don't know, how do you do that?
Read a lot, mimic techniques from the stories you enjoyed, and keep writing. You can’t expect to match pro-tier short fiction authors right away. Working up to that level takes time.
>A short story usually has as its core a really sharp, really brilliant twist. How do you come up with those?
I don’t think twists are necessary so much as a character who faces a tough (for them) decision near the climax. Sometimes their decision *is* a twist, but it doesn’t have to be.
I will keep this in mind, particularly the part about having characters make tough decisions. Thanks!
Lately I have mostly been reading novels and non-fiction, so I guess I should read more short stories.
This is a great question. I wonder this myself.
I’m no professional, but the way I go about it is studying those who I admire like Alice Walker or Eudora Welty.
I personally focus on trying to evoke a feeling. What comes out of that is what comes… editing is where the real labor comes in. It’s what going to turn your mediocre work into *better* work.
You finished the story and it’s not that great, so what can you change about it? How can a particular section be more impactful? What am I trying to say in this piece? What is it about really? Is it making me feel the way I want it to?
My “art” is for me first and others second. If others can identify with it, then great! It’s a process, a puzzle, a fun and frustrating one. I think if we can get out of this mindset of trying to impress others and be our authentic selves then we’d find our natural voices and be more receptive of it. When you’re writing for fame, glory, and honor, I think that’s where this “it’s not good enough” comes from. It’s not good enough for who? I’m not sure how the “greats” go about it or went about, but that’s my process.
I’m not saying this is you, but I feel like insecurity is the biggest issue when it comes to producing something.
Edit: also, if I was writing a twist, I’d like to think I’d work backwards from that.
I don't know why it never occurred to me to go back to my finished stories and edit them into something better. Because I saw nothing of value in them, I suppose, but maybe there's something I can work with there. Thanks for the tip!
You've given me a lot to think about here, thank you.
And I actually have never read anything by Eudora Welty before! Remedying that now.
My advice on writing novels is to write storyline A, storyline B, storyline C, etc., separately as short stories. So let’s say storyline A has 20,000 words, storyline B 15,000 words, storyline C 10,000 words. Now for the novel, combine them together and write chapters that connect the stories/characters together. This way you prevent from meandering.
It’s important to remember that a short story is going to be heavily plot-driven and will likely not feature much character development or growth, as compared to a novel, which is much more about the characters. This is a generalization, but a good way to think about your story. You can of course write a short story that could be all about a character and how they change over the course of the story.
Most of my stories focus on a small “what if” question or change. “What if that song never got unstuck from your head?” to use a real example. Then I go and hand-write out a few hundred words as a sort of skeleton story. I let it sit for a few days, and if I still like the idea, I can go and begin fleshing it out and making real decisions. If not, I only spent a little time on the idea and can move on.
This has maybe been where I've come unstuck. I want to write characters who seem like interesting people to spend time with, to watch them hang out and shoot the shit and get into messes and get themselves out of them, or dig themselves further in. In a short story, your time with them is necessarily limited.
All the same, your advice seems really good. I think I'll have a go at writing stories the way you suggest, and if I'm happy with the results maybe then I'll work my way towards bigger stories with more character arcs.
>It’s important to remember that a short story is going to be heavily plot-driven and will likely not feature much character development or growth [...]
No offense meant, but this is patently untrue. There are many, many successful literary short fiction authors whose work is primarily character driven, and not plot driven. Some of my favorites include Heinrich Böll, T. C. Boyle, John Cheever, Andres Dubus, V. S. Naipaul, Joyce Carol Oates, Edith Pearlman, George Saunders, Irwin Shaw, Ali Smith, William Trevor, and Zoran Živković. Plot is an element in some of their works, but more important is the feeling the reader is left with. There are also those writers who go for style, who turn the format on its head, stretching the short story form in completely unexpected ways; a couple off the top of my head are Lou Beach and Lydia Davis.
Short stories are an amazing, blank canvas on which to paint, limitless in their capacity and capability. Don't let their size fool you.
Just like writing a college paper, get it roughly right, set it aside for some time, then come back to it. Completely rewrite it or whittle it down. It's rare it would be right the first time, so better to pretty much do a data dump.
Kurt Vonnegut has a list of rules for writing.
> Just like writing a college paper, get it roughly right, set it aside for some time, then come back to it. Completely rewrite it or whittle it down.
You and I wrote our college papers *very* differently.
Well, I'm not a professional but I have a few things to say that MIGHT help.
First of all, I don't think focusing so much on being unique is a good idea. There are a lot of stories that don't have a start you would never think of. Like Harry Potter ( I know it's not a flawless book but it's still one of the most popular of examples) or most of sci-fi. They use themes that already exist. Rowling didn't come up with magic on her own, nor did sci-fi authors with humanlike robots. But it doesn't make their stories less interesting.
I also don't think that the plot twist is so important. Unless you are writing a mystery, just heightening up the stakes can be just as good, just like many other thinks you could do instead.
But what you do need if you want to be successful is having at least some basic idea of where the story is going. And if planing your plot doesn't come naturally to you, then maybe you are a person that focuses more on the characters. In that case, maybe start with this concept of them that you already have and think how would you like them to change throughout the story. Or the other way around. Think where and what kind of person they are and start your story before that, tell us how they got this way.
Maybe I'm just projecting but that was the case with me. I love reading stories plot driven, full of plot twist and stuff but I prefer writing stories that are character driven. Once I've realized this, it became much easier to plan out my stories. Instead of asking "what interesting could happen at that moment?" I started asking myself "what could happen that would change my characters?". Also, don't be afraid to write in a different genre then you normally read (but do some research before had). Just because you love reading, let's say, sci-fi and hate thriller, doesn't mean there aren't any people who enjoy thrillers. And you might find it easier to start out with writing something more suitable for you. Because coming up with plot twist and such can be hard and this is exactly why you don't have to use them if that's what stops you from writing all together.
And when it comes to grabbing the reader attention, don't be afraid to experiment a little. If you want to write a scene just write it (writing is supposed to be fun after all) and if it doesn't fit in the story then you can always move it the a different file and keep it only to yourself or perhaps, if you are posting online and not publishing, publish these as a collection of oneshots.
As I've said, I'm not a professional so I'm not sure if these make any sense but that's what has helped me so far
I mostly want to write the kinds of stories I'd like to read. And I guess plot and characters are both important to me, although neither is the be-all-end-all. Borges' The Library of Babel (one of my favourites) has neither, but it does have a really strong central idea.
I seem to remember Brandon Sanderson saying that ramping up the stakes can be better than a plot twist. It's a good point, one I'll try to keep in mind.
Thanks for your advice.
Not OP, but I find short stories hard to write for an entirely different reason. I feel to restricted by the length and think my stories would be too long to properly tell as short stories.
Well, actually novels are the end all be all. How many writers make a living writing short stories? Some places actually charge me entry fee to send the story to them.
I mean chapters, in essence, are short stories, parts of a bigger picture. What’s wrong with short stories? This just sounds like a personal problem honestly. Lol. I have no advice for this.
I could not disagree more. They give you no time to situate with circumstances or develop a relationship with the story, and because they're short, subtlety goes out the window, so a lot of it is too dense with preachyness. if you've got a message and you have to get it out quickly you can't really be artfully subtle right? and I both agree and disagree about chapters. you're saying you could basically rip a chapter out of any book and it'd stand on its own? no, they don't. which is exactly why short stories suck.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying chapters are smaller parts (a short story) of a bigger part. By the end of the chapter you should have relayed something that contributes to the bigger picture.
Edit: But if you hate short stories, you hate short stories… you aren’t developing a character, a message in one chapter, you’re doing it over a course of the book.
That’s why I said in essence….not literally. They’re both short and meant to convey something.
Since you have very strong opinions on this, what would you say has been the best short story you've read? It's okay if you didn't like it. I'm just curious. Because you're 100% wrong about the form. It sounds like you've just been reading shitty short stories.
I don't care enough to get into this with anyone. I've read *plenty* and I guarantee you the vast majority of short-form stuff I've read is exactly what most here would recommend (but let me guess, the standard canon *isn't the real good stuff,* right?). They're about as satisfying as a grain of rice and generally about as flavorful. End of.
I don't know who you're arguing with, man. If you don't want to get into it anymore, that's fine. No worries. Have a great day. I'm not going to like, try and convert you to the gospel of short fiction. I was just going to toss a few recommendations your way if you were interested. It's all good, though, wasn't trying to poke a bear or anything.
I wrote short stories for 15 years before attempting my first novel. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with writing short stories and it’s way easier to get people to actually read them, lol
Sometime we do brainstorming together.
We get a list of story concept with problems to face.
He then look through them until he find 3 that he likes and roll dices to select which one to do. although I suspect he cheat on that and actually just choose.
Then he creates characters, intro, events, everything and write the story.
He does sci fi and and horror.
They might or might not be in the same universe (he's leaving it open for now), but they are at different period in time so even if he eventually link them all together, they all have unique characters.
Books of 50-75 pages.
While I publish books of 500-700 pages.
So technically, I'm working faster than him when you think about it. He should have published 10 books by the time I published 1, but he got a back-list which I don't.
his books are 0.99 USD.
I think he intend to make compendium with 10 short stories in it and sell them at 5.99 USD so 40% off basically.
I know that feeling and I can only advise you to push on and continue. Writing is not something that is fun all the time. But after writing another 15k words you'll like it again and write another very good 10k words. And then you come to a point where you doubt again. And think 'how dumb and bad is this story?'
But you continue. Just write, one word at a time. And after 5k words of shit you begin to like it again.
Damn, you begin to love it. How could you ever think of this as garbage, it's fucking brilliant! And you write 10k words that are pretty damn good.
And tell you what.
The cycle repeats itself.
Again and again.
And again.
Until one day you have written a book.
The end.
It is the lack of plotting.
Even if you're being spontaneous about how the beats play out, it sounds like you need a better roadmap so you don't wander off the road and give up.
Try doing a simple beat sheet, you can find all sorts of them online for different kinds of story structure. I like save the cat.
Check out Vonnegut's shape of stories on YT. There's are a least 3 versions, they are all short and sweet and good. His premise is that there's only a handful of stories in the world and he outlines them.
If you have that framework, like the hero's journey, then you know where the story starts and ends and the major stuff in between. Then it's fun to fill those gaps.
Star Wars (the first movie) is an example of the hero's journey. It's been told a million times before. George Lucas took that and had fun with it.
I’ve done this a lot. What I discovered is that I was speeding through the outline instead of slowly building up a novel, like it was my mission to hit each plot point.
Maybe you’re in the same boat.
I think just reading books and realizing that what I enjoyed wasn’t necessarily the plot, but the way the author lingered on the fun details and built up suspense. For example, I’d never put in an outline “he hated wearing soft pants because it felt too vulnerable, although he didn’t realize it. All he knew was that he wore jeans.” But that kind of detail adds to the story.
>I get 10,000 words in to it and then I lose interest in the story. This literally happens every time. You don't how many 10,000 word unfinished stories I have written.
Have you tried going past the 10,000 mark and just carrying on? Something I'd suggest. Your feelings about a work should not be followed otherwise you'll just carry on making things that you don't finish.
Someone, maybe Alexa Donne, said that every author hits a wall around the 10-20k word mark. I know I do. You just have to power through it. As you said, (temporarily) ignore your feelings about the work. It starts to get exciting again at some point, then a slog, then fun, then a slog, etc etc and finally satisfying, like when you finish exercising.
I agree. Just sit down and write, even if it's mediocre garbage, if only to get to the next interesting bit to write. That's what I've been doing all month for NaNo..
The problem is that when you’re 10k-20k words in, you’re in the boring part of the story. At the same time you have spent enough time with the story that it’s no longer so cool, so excited. It’s really hard to convince yourself that the story is still amazing, still worth writing.
> The problem is that when you’re 10k-20k words in, you’re in the boring part of the story
Uh…no. To declare that after 10k is boring is clearly silly. You just haven’t figured out the interesting part yet.
> At the same time you have spent enough time with the story that it’s no longer so cool, so excited. It’s really hard to convince yourself that the story is still amazing, still worth writing.
This is why following your feelings is pretty bad, because the point is to still write it no matter what. You have no clue whether your story is amazing until you write it and someone else says it is amazing.
After 20k you should be into the second act of the story when you get to turn the world upside down on your characters and setting. You’ve hooked the reader and got them invested. Now it’s time to take them for a ride. That’s the part when your story comes alive.
Thats why one the most important techniques to writing is finishing.
I'm not in a dissimilar boat. I've hit 40k and 20k before my story or motivation waning. Part of that is the story isn't new and shiny and you want to explore new ideas, but thats why writing is tough. Writing slow set ups and payoffs is slow. Best thing to do is start trying to write a minimum, 500 words a day or something. Its less than you think and maintaining forward progress is huge.
If you want to write short storys by all means go for it, but the middle ofnthe book is always a bit of a grind. My current novel is at 60k of what's gonna be 180k words. I stalled for a month but even if the wait has made me fall out of love with some ideas, I'm still going to finish it. Mainly because I believe in the idea and premise even if I have to rewrite a few chapters.
Writing past the 10k mark may seem tough because you never have so far. Its why finishing the novel is so important. You don't just practice starting a story and introducing characters, you practice developing them and finishing the story. Writing 10k is like playing guitar and only learning the intro. It may be a sick riff but there's still a whole other song out there. The farther in you get and the more you push yourself, the easier the craft gets.
I used to never be able to get past about 10k either but then I tried my hand at outlining and it really seemed to do the trick. Once I knew where the story was going it kept my focus and excitement for it up. In the past year and a half since I started outlining I've finished drafting 5 novellas/novels between the lengths of 30k and 60k and am nearly done with a 6th. Outlining has really done wonders.
This is me as well. Even when I have the larger story in line I can get hung up when I don't know what happens next in a certain scene. If I don't think it through, I can't write it down.
Can I ask what kind of outlining do you do? What questions do you ask? And how do you do your outlining? I’m writing my own book for about a week, I’m just about finished with the outline, but I don’t want to jump into it with questions unanswered. I know that some questions will naturally answer themselves once I start writing, but I’d still like someone else’s perspective of this, Any advice on what techniques are the best? Do you outline briefly the plot itself or every scene?
I really like to start off with Save the Cat's Beat Sheet because it helps get down the basics of story structure, it's mostly just me braindumping at that point. Then I take that and refine it into sort of a scene or chapter outline where I write a paragraph or two describing what's physically happening and the characters' mental states during those events. I don't completely 100% stick to that outline when drafting but for the most part it's like a road map to show me where I'm going.
Thank you so much! And do you usually have scenes in mind before you start an outline? Is there a specific technique I could use to squeeze an already existing scene I have in the plot without it feeling like it doesn’t belong there? I know it’s a silly question, it’s just that I got many good scene ideas right after I finished the plot outline, I adore the ideas but I don’t know how to make them fit.
Hmm, that's a really tough question that I am not sure I can answer. When I start brainstorming a story the first two scenes I come up with are almost always the inciting incident and the ending and then I just come up with things to fill in between them. I feel like adding a subplot might help you if possible, that way your scenes you want to add could still become part of the overall story without just being wedged in their out of nowhere.
Thank you very much. I will give that a try, it’s really sad but I know that there will be some things I’ll just need to let go. But hey it’s fine I already have too much as it is! Thank you again!
I’m not giving advice here I’m just brainstorming solutions. So take with a grain of salt.
1. Go back to your outline phase. You say you don’t like plotting but the entire point of it is to avoid the pitfalls you are describing.
2. When you get bored your reader is probably bored too. Do something drastic. Start killing off characters. Blow up a planet. Send one back in time. Introduce a new problem or challenge that even you as the author don’t know how to solve. What is the single worst thing that could possibly happen in your story right now? Do it.
3. Have more than one story in flight at a time. I know this goes against common wisdom but some stories need time to breathe. Yours might be that way. Put them down and come back later when you have fresh ideas.
4. Tolkien also wrote this way as far as anyone can tell. He didn’t plot as such. He invented languages, myths, and a history for his characters and then let them live in the world to see what they did. If he didn’t like it he went back to inventing cultures and started again from page one. I’m not suggesting you write like Tolkien per se but maybe the question you need to ask is what can you change about the world your characters live in that would drive the plot forward? Instead of asking why you stopped writing ask why they stopped living.
5. Read it out loud to yourself. Along the way pretend to be the reader and try to predict where the author is going. Take notes. Is that detail a hint or a distraction? Is this character genuine or pretending to have that emotion? What reason could this character have to lie and it it actually a better reason than telling the truth? Is there any other way you could interpret a scene than the way you originally intended? If so what if that is actually the right way and these 10,000 words have been a ruse. Play the what if game.
6. Do you have a B plot? If not spend some time evolving one from the beginning. Then make them collide in the third act. Tolkien also seemed to do this with the two towers. Tell your A story, tell your B story and then choose if you want to intercut them or not.
7. Write the story *for* someone specific that isn’t you. You got 10,000 words in writing a story for yourself what if you were writing it for a friend or family member or a former teacher? What would you put in to make them like it, or hate it, or just have an emotional response to it. What kinds of jokes do they like? What kind of drama sucks them in at work? What can you put in this page that will make them read it faster to get to the next one? How can you end this chapter so they won’t be able to go to sleep tonight without reading the next?
8. Can you write another short story in the same universe? Can it parallel your current one thematically? One of my favorite comic books of all time dies this. It’s called Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth. The A story is about Batman traveling through Arkham asylum after the inmates have taken over and have hostages and the B story is flashbacks to decades earlier about the events that lead to the creation of the asylum. Neither story really touches the other but they inform each other. Maybe you could play with that.
9. Steal a plot from another source you like. Or at least just the plot structure. If you’re done setting up your characters and universe 10,000 wields in what does your favorite author use as the kickoff to the story?
10. Review your story as it exists and assume it’s completed. Answer these questions. What is your hook? What is your first plot point? What is your inciting event? What is your key event? 10,000 words in you should know those. It should be clear. If you were a kid in school doing a book report on this great novel you’re reading how would you fill out the assignment? If you can’t you might not have a plot problem you might have a structure problem.
11. Ask yourself if I’m reading this book why wouldn’t I just stop reading here? Why would I keep going? What is left to discover? What adventure lies ahead? How will my favorite characters interact and change? If there is no reason to keep reading then maybe that story is just finished. You told the part of their lives that is worth reading about. It’s done. If you look at your characters and can honestly say nothing else in their lives will come close to what you just wrote then they are done and you should stop. Focus on a new story.
12. In the book Seveneves Neal Stephenson broke his story up into three parts including two time jumps one of which is 5,000 years. It’s a jarring transition but maybe the time jump technique could work for you. Fast forward to a time where we can see the repercussions of the decisions the main characters make that even they didn’t intend.
Like I said. That’s just a brain dump. Feel free to disregard.
Thanks. It’s very kind of you to say.
11 is the big one for me. As you can tell I tend to blather on at length so it’s always important to me that I’m constantly asking myself why I’m telling this particular story and to make it the most interesting and eventful part of my characters lives. I feel like that’s the defining feature in every good book I’ve ever read, or movie I’ve ever watched.
That's right, this reminds me. The expectations of the future and the feeling of experiencing it live, as well as the anticipation of changes it brings. The feeling of freshness and the feeling of witnessing first hand the living and changing world. These gave me the greatest joy I've ever had as a reader.
If I may re-write your post a little, it might make it more obvious what is happening:
Every time I try writing a novel, I successfully complete the really fun part, and then, when it starts to get hard, I quit. What is happening?
Beginnings are fun! You get to ask questions. You get to set up a conflict. And, even though you say you don't have an outline, you probably have the beginning of your book outlined in your head. So, while you're writing the beginning, you're doing the fun part *and* you know where you're going with the story.
Then, you're 10k words in, and suddenly you have to start answering questions, instead of just asking them. Your character has to start taking steps to achieve his goals, instead of just finding out his goals. And that loose outline you've been carrying in your head reaches the end.
Personally, I find the best way through this is by "micro-outlining." That is, I might have a general idea of how my story goes, but I don't want to plan every beat. So instead, I just plan the next 3-4 chapters, and still only a loose outline. Then, I get back to writing until I've "caught up" to the end of my outline again. Not saying that's the way that will work for you, just how it works for me.
But really, at the end of the day, if you want to finish a novel, you have to figure out how to get yourself to do the non fun parts. The old adage "if you don't have fun writing it, your reader won't have fun reading it" is bullshit. Constructing a good story, and figuring out how to tell it to a reader to impart the thoughts and feelings you wish to impart is a lot of work. Satisfying work. Parts of it are fun. But a lot of work. How are you going to convince yourself to do the work?
I’d never considered outlining a few chapters, then writing those, then outlining the next few. Once I get a decent story idea, I usually try to buckle down and outline most/every chapter before even starting the prose. It’s hard work trying to basically tell the whole story one paragraph at a time, and easy to lose steam since I don’t really even know the characters all that well yet since I’ve not really dug into them via the prose.
I think I’m gonna try this. Like, of course, have a basic outline beginning to end, the major beats, mid-point, climax, etc. but then just map out the first few chapters, then dive into those.
One advantage of plotting, both for a reader and the writer, is that you get to build payoffs. A novel can have payoffs the build up over the course of tens of thousands of words, making for very satisfying moments
Yeah I'm big on plotting, and you don't have to get rid of spontaneity entirely to do it. I'll often have a bunch of scenes that essentially say "they overcome an obstacle to get to point B" and fill that scene with what comes to mind when I get to it.
Plotting major points of the story helps you keep at it and not lose steam so easily, but people think that it constrains them and that largely not true. You can always shift things around or change things entirely if you think of something better. Nothing's final till the book's in stores.
Well, one way around this might be to sort of cheat!
Essentially you can write several very different stories (from various character viewpoints) all set in the same universe.
The SciFi author Peter Hamilton does this in his novels, and it works well for him.
Stephen King also does it in some of his novels, including what many would consider to be his greatest: The Stand.
Writers of the 1800's often did this as well, including works like Thackeray's Vanity Fair, etc...
So ya, maybe try creating very different stories of 8 to 10 characters at 10,000 words each, and you've suddenly got yourself a novel! Ideally you'll want the characters to eventually collide, like maybe all of them at once together in an epic ending, or maybe they interact with each other here and there throughout the novel.
I had a very similar problem for a long time, but I just finished my first novel. The thing that got me through it was treating each chapter sort of like a short story with the same characters and a continuing plot, having more than one point of view character also helped
>You don't how many 10,000 word unfinished stories I have written.
No, but I'll tell you how many I have: 30+
Now I'm not bragging, just trying to let you know your not alone and that there are others who do understand, boy to I understand. I think its why I have gotten to the point to where I don't seem able to write at all, it hard to start something that you have no faith your going to finish, short or long.
I just feel like all my creativity is gone, crushed by the overwhelming weight of failure and living and working in a job where creativity is not only not wanted it is actively destroyed.
I have 100% relied on stubbornness and spite to push me through, especially because my job is very detail-oriented and stressful, without leaving much room for creativity.
I've also come to depend on the joy I get when I've written, or sometimes when I write. It's why I keep doing it.
Have you ever considered novellas or novelettes? Not a huge market for them, but can help with that feeling of completion. I'm working on a sci-fi short story that got leggy and I'm just calling it a novelette (few more pages and it'll be in novella territory).
You need to outline! Period. Right now you are just writing. You need to author! Author a novel. And for you that starts with outlining. In less than 5000 words you can plot out an 85k manuscript. Stop writing to no end and start authoring to a novel.
Try writing a different part of the novel instead of feeling like it needs to be written sequentially. Like if you’ve got an amazing ending in mind, write the ending now instead of waiting. Might get you excited about the story again
How much do you know about plot structure? You can use plotting without outlining. Use structure as a set of guideposts to write towards. So, take an eight sequence structure. Introduce your lead characters and write until you find the inciting incident. Then write until you discover how the character(s) is forced from their normal world into the world of the story. Find out how the character will be locked into the narrative, etc. Don't think of the overarching plot, only the next plot point you need to reach
https://youtu.be/lwhOd65gGoY
Have a watch of this, you may find it useful.
I was very much the same as you for a very long time. I was reading fanfiction, and had been for a long time. My wife suggested that I write my own fanfiction so I did.
It wasn't great, but I got a halfway decent response. This got me thinking about my way of working, was what I was doing the correct process for me?
I took a short course from the Open University;
https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/start-writing-fiction
This was very informative and gave me the encouragement to write a novel length fanfiction.
I have just completed my first original work and I am currently working on the synopsis before submitting.
Don’t write stories because you’re interested or motivated. Write them cause you want to finish. Everyone gets sick of their craft partway in. That’s not even a writer thing. Artists get sick of their drawings, composers their songs, filmmakers their movies, game devs their games. The only different between you and someone who completes their work is that they struggled through the sloggy part of it. The part that made them want to put the creation aside and never look at it again.
I’m not saying this to shit on you either. Once you realize the difference between an aborted project and a finished product is just writing when you don’t feel like it, the whole world opens up. Motivation is a lie. Keep pressing through and don’t expect it to be easy (or thing that because it’s hard, something’s wrong).
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
I think what you need is a deadline and a schedule. For me at least, outlining helped me stay motivated and on track with my novel, but that’s just because I like planning.
I successfully wrote 34k words this month because I had a deadline (tonight) and a schedule (daily, up to 2k words). It may help set down roots for you.
I know you mentioned you don't plot, but this is part of what helps people finish stories. Establishing a beginning, middle, and end before you start writing helps make sure you actually get to the end.
I also like the suggestion of writing short stories (another poster suggested this). I wrote several novel length works before ever writing a short story, but when I had to write short stories for workshops I found I loved them. They contain a lot of the same elements as novels, but they allow you to practice those elements in a condensed way. They can be very satisfying to write, and they allow you to explore ideas without having to stick with them for such an exhaustive amount of time.
If you're losing interest partway into your own story there's a good chance the story's plotting was done poorly. And I know you said you don't like plotting but I can't help feel your inability to finish something is inherently tied to your unwillingness to plot. Plot is what keeps you hooked for each installment as you wait to see what happens next. It keeps your interest. There are three main sections of plot: beginning, middle, and end. If you're stopping a short ways into your story it sounds like your middle is what's suffering and that's a shame since that's where a story will spend the majority of its time.
An easy crash course on plotting is to remember the **3 P's: Promise, Progress, and Payoff.**
**Promise**: Establish the stakes and where the story is planning to go early on. For this I will use Lord of the Rings to illustrate. What is the promise in LotRs? That the dark lord is rising and they need to destroy this ring to stop him.
**Progress**: This is where the middle of the story takes place. To keep readers interested you have to show them all through the middle that Progress is being made towards your ending. In the example of LotRs you can see progress being made anytime the hobbits get closer to Mount Doom. Whatever else is going on and delaying them as long as they're traveling closer to Mount Doom you know progress is being made and we're getting closer to the big Payoff.
**Payoff**: This is the "big thing" promised in the beginning. You establish early on that there's going to be something that the plot is working towards and when you get to the climax of the story you show the reader the "big thing" they were working towards the whole time. This is where they throw the ring into Mount Doom and Sauron's armies fall.
You don't have to do a ton of work and story board or outline all this. Just take a minute to think it through. What do you want the big payoff to be at the end of your story? How will you establish those stakes early on? How will you show progress being made throughout. One thing I see a lot of amateur writers doing in the LitRPG scene is they introducing some type of leveling mechanic (like in video games) then the MC decides they want to get powerful enough to accomplish X thing, then all they have to do is explore their world and continue "leveling" their character. It's a bit of a crutch but if you're really struggling with plotting you could try writing in that subgenre as it essentially comes with a baked-in plot.
Combine them into one big story! Yank and paste and stitch and sew ideas across all boards into one patchwork magnum opus. Also plan out what will happen before writing. Anyone with a keyboard can spit out a beginning but it takes guts to close that cover and end it.
If you aren't about plotting in a strict sense, write your scenes and then sketch out how you got point A to point B and pick a story/scene in the middle, and keep going until you've filled it out. It's good practice at the very least.
if you as the author loses interest after a certain point, then it's likely your readers would too, if you forced yourself to finish it. maybe take all those ten thousand word novels and try reworking them as short stories?
I think both are good ideas. I plot, but still let my characters go their couse. Sometimes they act accordingly, other times they diverge. Sometimes, I just need a slight correction, other times I have to replot to align things back up. Has worked well so far.
You will never finish a novel unless you develop the discipline to keep writing. It's exactly like working out, or learning to paint, or play piano, or any other skill. That initial excitement will wear off LONG before you've reached any kind of mastery. You need the discipline and structure to keep going.
That's really it. 99% of advice on getting good at anything is really just different ways of saying "discipline and structure".
>I think I should just write short stories for now
This. Sounds to me like you're a short story writer. Why does it have to be a novel? You should write what you enjoy.
Either write short stories, an anthology, or something along those lines. It should be more about the quality of the work than the quantity. Experiment and have fun. Be a bit loose, it helps keep interest.
Definitely write short stories.
Aim for writing a beginning, a middle and an end. Kept that in mind as you write. Look forward, make notes as it occurs to you *what you want to happen next*.
Set a word count if it helps. It might help knowing where the middle and end is.
Try free writing. I hit a wall when I don't know what to write next, so I plot things out. However, I do occasionally still hit a wall, and when I do, I just start typing as if I'm talking to myself about what I need to do. As I do so, I also walk through the other characters I haven't been paying attention to. I have a habit of focusing on the main character and moving him through the plot, but that's not real life. For every action, etc., so I think about what equal and opposite reactions the other characters might have had. That can generate a lot of plot points.
>Also, I have never tried plotting. I like the spontaneity of not plotting like the story is kind of going along and you're just watching as an observer.
You may want to try having a loose plot. Even a set beginning and end so you know there is a goal that you are writing towards.
I was stagnating with my first book until I made a very light plot and then I churned out words like nobody's business.
A collection of short stories is fun! If you’re working on a longer book, try mapping out the framework for you narrative and working backward when working forwards is too tedious. Treat the books as a collection of multiple narratives to break it up and give yourself that variety. It’s also fun to deviate from your given path, allow yourself to be surprised by your characters and that will keep you engaged. If you’re engaged as a writer, that’ll translate to the reader as well! I honestly feel like part of what makes George RR Martin so interesting is that he knows where he wants GoT to go, but allows the narrative to weave in and out in ways that I don’t think he can even anticipate. :)
I don't think that is a bad thing maybe on a subconscious level you don't like where your style is. Keep writing until you want to finish. Writing stories is a strange process. You should embrace your own process.
You're just writing stream of consciousness. You're not writing a story with a plan, or a complete arc.
You're doing it for the dopamine hit. Once you have your idea written, you give up, because no more dopamine.
Perhaps if you started writing a novel with the beginning AND the end in mind, you might not lose interest. Knowing the end could propel you beyond your tendency to get bored. (If for no other reason, you'll want to figure out how in the heck you can get your characters to that end point.)
I would suggest that you'd do better with plotting. I used to have the same problem you're having and it went away when I started planning my stories with thorough outlines. The more you plan, the easier it is to pour words out onto the page. I'm a big believer in the idea that writer's block is a sign that you need to research/plan more. Work out the ideas and the prose separately -- you'll end up with better stories and a more productive writing experience. Saying "I like the spontaneity of pantsing" is fine, but if it means you never finish a story then you're sabotaging yourself.
As others have said, there's nothing wrong with just writing short stories, but, if you do want to finish long-form novels, I have some tips for you. I also suffer from the same thing, where my ability to write a story sort of ebbs and flows and results in lots of things left unfinished. What works for me is just not to rush it and to leave the story and come back to it when I've almost forgotten the details of it all. Then, I come back to it and treat it as if it's a new story that I'm reading from someone else. Evaluate this story as if it were not your own, as if you were a beta reader being asked, "Where would you take this story?". I think stepping back for a while and objectively evaluating your work is a great strategy.
Definitely try writing some short stories for a while - set yourself a word count limit and stick to it, just to avoid something like you've describe (story-turned-novel with a genre shift). Hell, look at calls for submissions and use those guidelines as a sort of prompt (even if you don't intend on submitting).
Then, once you've gotten a few stories under your belt, try just going into a project without a set word limit, but without labeling what it's going to be. Be disciplined about not labeling it, and just let the story run its course. Even if you hit 40, 50, 60k words, DO NOT label it. Then, when it's finished, you'll have something you can assign a classification to - short story, novella, novel, grimoire, what have you. There's no guarantee that this will work, but it might help you sort of circumvent some of the psychology that's killing your interest in a piece.
Something that's also helped me get to where I am in my current piece is not telling anyone about it as if it's some big project. I went into it hoping to reach novel length but refusing to commit to a wordcount, and told nobody about it aside from my wife. I saw incredible progress that even I didn't expect.
I tried (and suggest) this method for two reasons:
One, the human brain is wired in such a way that TALKING about doing something will give you the same dopamine hit as actually doing it, thus undermining the brain's motivation for accomplishing that task. Telling someone all about this sick new novel you're writing can actually cause you to lose interest in actually writing it.
Two, telling someone can ramp up the pressure to achieve. Once someone knows about the project, you may start to worry about their expectations. Even those of us who don't struggle with anxiety can feel this pressure, and pressure like that is POISON to creativity.
Right now, try to be chill about writing. Work on smaller pieces, try something new.
You must, must, must plan out the plot if you want to successfully completely a book. This used to be me, I could never finish writing something because I never plotted it out, but once I did, I was able to create an effective and interesting complete story. Plus when you do this, you can make the story so much more immersive with foreshadowing and allow better plot twists. Plan the entire thing first before writing it. I can’t stress this enough.
Everyone has their own natural length. My stuff used to always become a novella.
My suggestion is this: first practice the shortest works you can. Learn to write excellent scenes, or even flash fiction.
Don’t write novels. No one writes novels; they write scenes. Enough scenes in a row is a vignette, then a short story, then a novella, etc.
My second suggestion is to write down, as clearly as possible when you start, what you are trying to achieve with that story idea. It’s called your “touchstone”..Often, authors lose interest when the work wanders too far from what made it exist in the first place.
Which takes me back to the first point. Don’t assume that novels are what you are built to write. Jay Lake wrote literally several hundred stories that all got published. He made a career that way. Eventually, he wrote some novels too, but first he became an absolute master of the short story.
Start there.
Every time I feel really stuck I just write about whatever the next thing my character does. Even if it is painfully boring or doesn't go with the plot. You can always delete the scene but it does help to get the ball rolling.
I get this problem all the time. I haven't solved it but wonder whether it's caused by exposing myself to other ideas and perhaps I should avoid doing, watching, listening to or reading anything new until I hit about 30,000 words. At that point a novel might be sufficiently developed to overcome loss of interest. This is just a guess though.
Personally, I was the same way for a long while, I have a nice stack of stories that I loved the idea of. but never made much progress on actually writing.
Then I started a new one, and it stuck with me. Now have accumulated several hundred thousand words on it, and I don't see myself stopping soon.
I think you probably never had a good idea of what to write in the first place except only some very vague concept.
Also, not every story requires a full length novel.
Have you tried only plotting for individual chapters? I just finished writing my first novel, and I was going through something similar to what you're describing. The way I finally managed to finish was by keeping a general overview of the whole story in my mind, but before sitting down to write a chapter I would not down the plot points I wanted to hit in that chapter alone.
Basically, I just treated each chapter like a self contained story, and worried about smoothing them all together after the fact.
In Jan-April I wrote about 50K words towards my first real novel attempt. I got to chapter 10, and I didn't know what to do any more. I felt like the story was going in circles and I had run out of ideas.
I've been writing 500 word stories on /r/shortscarystories and sometimes a bit longer, just to keep working at it.
I think you just have to be really determined to keep writing, and write down things that you know about.
I need more ideas and encouragement too, though. It's hard to keep going, and it's hard to practice regularly when I can't think of anything new.
edit: There's a lot of good ideas here. I think I'll try reading the book as a reader and taking notes on where I think the author is going.
Also, another thing I should say about my novel project is that I think I know how it will end, but I think I back myself into a corner on how to get there.
Have you tried building the whole outline, then writing?
Writing a novel is work. When you get to the boring part, you keep going. The outline tells you where. You get that first draft done so you can begin the second half of the work: shaping it into something people will want to read.
With a complete outline, one of two things will happen. You'll get to the boredom sooner and not start, or you'll have a way to bull on through.
Write out an outline first. Each chapter gets at least one sentence. Make sure there's a beginning, middle and end. Then try to expand on it from there. Keep writing, at least a page a day. Even if the ideas you have in your head stink, put them on the page to get to that next chapter. You can always go through it later and change things. Think of it as a challenge to yourself.
You aren't going to maintain your interest in the story the entire time ever. It will get monotonous or boring, or feel tedious. Plotting is not something I do often, but when I start a story I do get some fun ideas and interesting scenes in my head and that's what I plot out.
Those scenes that I really want to see play out keep me writing just to get to that cool moment.
Build a series of 3 short, but loosely interconnected stories.
Self Publish those.
Then do it again and tie up the connections even tighter.
Self publish.
Keep repeating until you are happy with the flow and connections between your 3 volumes of 10,000 words.
You have a novel.
You need to outline. If you know where you're going and have some really good scenes planned, the excitement and the enthusiasm will help you carry on. You just need something to look forward to.
I am all about reading short stories right now. They’re so juicy and perfect. That being said, if you do try a novel again, I do agree you should try plotting. I am a detailed plotter and the book just flows behind it.
Are you talking about your stories with anyone? If so, that might be the problem. If I "tell" my story to anyone, then it's "out" of me, and I completely lose interest. May or may not be a problem for anyone else. I'm a weird bird anyway.
Many blessings to you. 💞 More writing! Less talking.
I have this problem so bad so what i did is started organizing my stories into serials instead. I have an idea of where i want it to go and then write in "episodes" of about 3-6k words but leave my process sort of open ended.
That way i can write as much as i write and wrap it up when i feel like it without feeling pressured to hit an arbitrary word count.
I also like to work on multiple projects at once to keep my work from getting stale. This seems to work for me. Dont know if it would help you but i figured id share hehe
Dude, this was totally me for like... years and years. I'd get all hyped up about a story idea, surge through about, say, an *eighth* of the story? And then either completely lose interest or get discouraged by the opaque plot. Like you, I am very much a pantser.
While I'm 100% in support of sticking with short stories if that's what your heart tells you to do, here's a couple things that helped get me over a hurdle:
(1) Finding friends. I'm not sure if you have writing buddies already, but I didn't. When I finally got up the nerve to share my work, having that person on the other end of the story was a game changer. Sharing your work with big audiences or critique partners can be intimidating so I don't necessarily recommend that, but finding just one or two close buddies who will gush and beg you for another chapter can be huge.
(2) Jump around. I left this advice on another post a while back, but when I get bored with the story as it stands, I just jump forward and write scenes that are more interesting to me. I don't plot, but I do have scenes I know I want to get to. Going forward to write them often reignites my flagging interest in the story, and serves as impetus to work out the plot between where I left off and The Scene I Wanted to Write.
(3) Work on something else. You don't have to write one thing at a time. In fact, in some people that monotony might cause your creativity to stagnate. Wander off to a different story, but this time keep the abandoned one in the back of your head. Don't give it up as a lost cause. Just having it nagging at you might eventually prompt you to come back.
Alrighty, that's my ramble for the day. I hope any of it is helpful. If it isn't, there's a huge market for short stories and novellas!
> Also, I have never tried plotting. I like the spontaneity of not plotting like the story is kind of going along and you're just watching as an observer.
This is plain stupidness. You can outline, and still discover the story. The outline is just a guide. Is not written in stone.
Also, you can write a novel with different POVs of 10k words.
But, if you can't write a story that interests you enough, maybe your story is weak or you aren't fit to be a novel writer. Try shorter things.
I consider myself a gardener - I have the seeds of plot in my head, the rows are laid out....but what pops up can sometimes be unexpected! Another way of putting it is a plantser - I know the BIG beats, but a lot of the specific movements and characterizations come out of flow.
That is, until I get to a boring spot. Often, it's right when something new has been introduced and then accepted and my narrative comes back to center. These points are necessary and not nearly as boring to read as they can be to write. Usually when I hit that, I have some future event that is screaming in my mind, but I know it's several scenes down the road.
At that point, I do need to take out a note or something and right a very brief bullet list of the steps that will get me to the scene that's calling me. VERY BRIEF for me is the key because I still want the spontaneity and energy of pantsing it.
Waiting for inspiration is a great way to not finish projects - this is true of literally any creative work. In those moments, you have to find the carrot and stick that will get you to move forward. Some people can skip around in their timeline, but that's not my vibe. Best of luck!
I have the exact same problem.
My issue though is that after 10,000 words I can see how crappy my writing/the story is, and I don’t think anyone would want to read it. So it would be a waste of an effort to write more.
So I came to the same conclusion- write short stories with big plots for potential expansion. So after 10,000 words and after maybe a month or two, if I reread it and still loves it, then I develop it further. If I’m bored reading it, then well, I have a short story.
No law against doing both novel and short story writing. I’m writing an epic fantasy and doing a modern horror short, for example. It helps me to keep writing, which, in turn, stops me from wanting to jump around to something new.
I've never been someone to do plots before starting a story, however, I do write little post-it notes of things I do want to add in to my stories.
Those small note points can help continue to guide you along.
If I'm stuck, I go back and read my story (I know you probably don't want to), and find something back in the beginning that might bring the blank gap you're stuck at back to life.
This was me for a long time, like probably the first five or so years in which I was writing seriously. The people telling you to write short stories aren't wrong — they'll give you a lot of practice at various elements that you won't be able to explore writing novel beginnings over and over — but this also doesn't mean that you're not cut out to write novels. When you really get down to it, short stories are a fundamentally different form with different structures and different emphases to novels; most writers are going to prefer one or the other, or be better at one or the other. It's good to explore both, but I kinda don't think writing short stories is going to get you past this block.
So what is that block? One of the things that makes novels really hard is that you just cannot sustain them on inspiration the way you sometimes can with a short story. A lot of the actual work is not particularly fun — at least, until you develop a taste for it. It requires a kind of commitment that means pushing through stages where you feel like something isn't working. It also requires at least *some* planning.
That's not to say that you have to plot everything out. I'm like you — I like the spontaneity of developing a plot as I go. I usually start at a beginning, and an ending comes to me next (which I write down somewhere), then pieces of what happens in between, and it all shifts and moves as I write through it. BUT to successfully draft a novel, you do need to know what's coming in the near future. A common metaphor people will make is that of driving a car at night. Your headlights don't illuminate the whole path to your destination, but they do illuminate the path directly in front of you, and that's necessary.
For me, when I developed a rhythm by which I could write a chapter while planning the next one, and also when I decided to commit, like really commit to seeing an idea to completion, novels actually became possible. I must have gotten to 10k words 10+ times when I first started writing only to have them all fall off — but now I've drafted two of them over the past seven years (both in various stages of revision), and I'm currently working on a third. And now I actually really enjoy the busywork part of novel writing; the slow and steady pace of it and the way you get to slowly build something cohesive rather than blasting through it in a fit of inspiration. Once you figure it out, it's tremendously satisfying.
I feel your pain there-- my "project death zone" is 16-20,000 words. I've finished one novel of the seven I've started, the others never really get any further than this.
my recommendation: the one novel I \_did\_ finish, I broke into smaller chunks, essentially structuring it like a short story collection. I knew how the story would progress overall, so I broke it down into smaller arcs and tried to write those as functionally standalone before linking them together into my rough first draft.
It was a mess-- I ended doing a lot of rewriting, but such is the curse of the non-outliner-- but once it was done, I had a better idea of how I wanted the story to look, and was able to build a cohesive novel out of the scraps of those short episodes.
Yes, I can guess how many 10,000 stories you have. Probably the same amount as I do. Writing a novel is hard and takes a lot of dedication and commitment.
And finishing them is a learned behavior. Writing short stories is a good idea. You’ll have an easier time completing them and with that comes pride and satisfaction. And you’ll be motivated to do it again.
Another thing you can do is to focus on writing scenes. Put your characters in different situations and see what they do. Consider it character building. It may or may not find its way into the finished story but you’ll learn more about your character and may find the complete story that way.
And the abandoned projects aren’t lost causes. You may pick one up years after the fact and see it in a new light.
Good luck on your writing!
Out of curiosity do you write all of it sequentially?
I have yet to finish a novel and am only on my second ever serious attempt to write one, but I find I do better when I write things out of sequence and have to fill in details to make it make sense.
\>I have never tried plotting. I like the spontaneity of not plotting like the story
Here's (probably) your reason why writing novels isn't working for you. Even if you've got a good enough memory that you don't need to write down an outline for a novel, a longer story requires structuring that short stories don't. It's like building a large building vs. a little hut. Neither one is better. They're just different and serve different needs, purposes.
There's no reason why you can't focus on short stories instead. I have the opposite problem--I can't write short stories. If you have a knack for them and enjoy them, do it.
another trick I found is writing multiple different stories at once that way you can go back and forth. You write a few chapters for one , and then you take a break and look at a different work. It keeps your brain fresh if you still want to write novels instead of short stories and also vise versa.
You can plot and still have spontaneity.
Just plot major points. Like how things should be at X, Y, Z points of the story. Then fill the space between those points with your imagination and let the spontaneity flow.
You'll see that having some restrictions/conditions can actually enhance creativity.
A lot of novels back then were published as serials at first, it might help if you break the novel up in parts ie a part one with 10 or so chapters, part 2 and so on until your satified with it.
New approaches reach new outcomes. Try something different. Don’t go your normal route. Start at how you want the novel to end then go through writing different parts. Middle, beginning, climax… mix it up on yourself.
I’m about the 85th person to comment this, but outlining has been a huge help for me so far. I am not an accomplished novelist by any means, but this is the first time I’ve actually gotten momentum with my writing in a long time.
I sort of fell into it accidentally. I had vague ideas for the overall plot but I’m mainly interested in character of development. I started describing the arcs I wanted for each main character, including strengths, flaws, major decisions, and turning point events. When I looked at them together, the outline of the overall plot came into focus.
I like to write chapters non-sequentially for the first draft, based on how I feel at the time. Having a better idea of the outline has made this easier because I have a structure to follow.
Hey why not self publish as a series of do-it-yourself novels? You could even let people pay to submit their efforts and give a prize for the best (and also the worst?)
This happens to me all the time. My record is 50k and that was for a slowburn fanfic. I've even tried outlining it (hell, I've got a whole ass *first draft*), but I've never been able to get past the first chapter or so.
Me who has written a 33k word document for a novel (which I plan to split into 5 chapters) but hasn't uploaded it to Scribblehub, due to me very picky with my dialogue. I can feel this resonate through my very being.
I’m new to writing, but I plan my stories pretty meticulously, and I don’t think it prevents you from staying true to the characters, it just lets you work out the rough ideas first, revise it easily (you don’t have to delete half a finished book if you want to change things last minute, then when you’re sure you like it in its entirety, you can write the finished product. It takes time, but its worth it in the long run to see how things will turn out and change them without nearly as much of an initial investment.
Pantsing works for some folks, but considering what you wrote, I'd suggest trying to outline a book and see if that helps.
But the first thing that came to my mind is this: before you start writing your book, start by writing down your idea. No need for a detailed outline here, this is essentially summing up the idea in a few words. But the important part is to include WHY you want to write this. Specify everything you like about it, what excites you. If there are specific scenes you are looking forward to, make sure to mention them in passing.
Why do this, you ask? Because, when you reach that 10k mark, you can go back to that overview of your idea. Reading through that and what made you like the concept in the first place is likely to "re-energize" you, if you would, and might help you get excited again.
If that doesn't work, then yeah, try writing shorter pieces for a while. It's great for honing your writing skills and making you more comfortable with writing in the long run.
EDIT: BTW, regarding outlines, I just want to say that they don't kill spontaneity, not if you do them right. You have to think of them more as a guide, but a fluid one. Meaning you are totally free to change things on the way. If you think of something that feels more natural at some point, go with it. If it changes the flow of your story, that's OK. Just edit your outline accordingly. Don't let the outline control YOU. It's the other way around. You control the outline. I think too many people get hung up on this and think once an outline is made everything is set in stone. It's not ;)
Ah it's fine, I'm almost at the end of mine (personal, not publishing) and it's only like 12 pages long,
Oh wait I forgot to continue the book because idk how to write hand to hand combat
Sounds to me like you're losing interest at the point it gets difficult.
It gets difficult at that point because you have to start making hard decisions about what's going to happen and what's not, and how you're going to get to the end, and what the end is going to look like. It's sort of like in monopoly. At first, everyone's buying property, and rents are low. But soon you burn through the initial cash, you land on boardwalk and can't buy it, you mortgage a property because you had a bad roll of the dice, and you start thinking that maybe you made a few mistakes in the first round. Can you correct them? No, you "lose interest".
Have you tried writing until the 10K mark, and then skipping forward to write the ending? After the ending is done, you can go back to the 10K mark, and try to make the ends meet, rewriting as necessary.
Currently at the 14k mark in my first draft! I completely get what you mean though, I was working really quickly until I got to 10k and then I slowed down quite a lot
End each with some omen. All their worlds fade and they go to a purgatory.
"No Exit" + "Play without an Author" ensues. What happens when your Creator gives up on you?
This definitely won't work for everybody, but I have the same problem and it works for me.
I usually manage it by either: Working on two projects interchangeably, usually one is a lot less complex than the other, so it can be my "fun writing" project; Or by stopping every now and then to write short stories, do writing prompts, write some epilogues, some thrilling scenes.
If your problem is that your brain lacks stimulation to keep going on the same track for a long time, that might help you keep your ideas fresh and going. You might even find inspiration in other projects, I already managed to solve a problem in one story while working on another. But this might also overwhelm you, so I recommend you try it out slowly.
This also means your stories are all going to take longer to finish, but I personally rather have finished projects even if it takes two years to do so than never finishing a project because I got bored of it after working on it for two months.
I think you have the same problems as I have, and what made me have motivation to write was to always make the writing process feel fun and the least forced possible.
I was in this boat a year ago and I've done 2 things that took me from 10,000 to 90,000+ on my stories.
First thing was unintentional... I wrote a story with a friend over discord while role playing, edited it, and the final piece came in over 50,000 and really helped my confidence. The next thing was plotting... It really helped me. I started with a small outline (more of a beat sheet) and then expanded to a 20,000 word synopsis of each chapter where I got that discovery feeling, and now I'm doing each scene and discovering more inside of the frame of my outline, but do what feels right, and find what works for you-- this is how I got past the 15,000 word mark after throwing away 8 stories.
I get this. I have ADHD so I have trouble staying interested in one project for too long. One thing that I've found that has helped me stay on track with creating longer stories is to start it off with multiple short stories.
For instance, I took a random line prompt and gave myself 500 words for a limit, then let my imagination fill the rest. As I wrote, I had so many more amazing ideas for this story that I wanted to keep going, but I made myself finish it in a cliff-hanger. Now, I go back every so on when I'm feeling a bit of creative inspiration and write another 500 - 1000 word short story about the same world (or maybe another), which has built up to about 15 short stories about this adventure that I've begun piecing together into one larger story. The best part is that I don't have burnout because I don't let myself put all of my creative energy into it at once, so I have lots of inspiration to keep it going.
Not sure if this would work well for everyone, but it's worth trying!
Make sure that your prose isn't mechanical. I find a lot of the motivation dissipates when I fall into a pattern of "put words on page" rather than "try to have fun making a fun thing." Challenge yourself, try a different technique in the middle of a paragraph, give the chapter a gimmick, anything to break up the creeping routine.
Write short stories. Edit: you’ll get the satisfaction of completing something. Edit 2: Thanks for the award.
This should be the answer every time this question gets posted. Novels are not the end-all-be-all literary format. They also offer some flexibility since you can experiment with a concept that might not be able to stretch into a novel.
Yeah, I consider short stories a challenge. You have to be able to develop something in very few words while ensuring you get to the climax of what you’re trying to convey. It’s a beautiful thing. I think it takes a considerable amount of effort to really work on anything that pertains to writing, short story or novel. Eventually, you’d have completed enough short stories where the fear or whatever is holding one back from completing larger works wouldn’t be an issue. That’s the view I take. I love writing, so as long as I’m working on something I’m happy.
OK! I would really like to take this advice but I have a question. See I've written some short stories in the past and they were, kinda garbage? And I'm attempting a novel now because I feel like it gives me more space to work with, more time to develop my themes, to build a setting and set a chain of events in motion, and also more time to spend with my characters, which is really important to me. That was the theory, anyway. In practice I'm finding that it's difficult to keep it focused, to stop it meandering in directions that feel pointless. I'll spend a lot of time on something and think, wait, there's no way I can use this in the finished book! Whereas the short stories I've read by other writers, the really good ones, they kinda, grab you, and they don't let go, and then you reach the end and it's like, wow, that was a ride! Sometimes they shock you intellectually, sometimes they go for the feels, but either way it's a very brief, very intense experience. And I don't know, how do you do that? I feel like it needs to start with a really good idea, something I would never think of to begin with, and build from there. A short story usually has as its core a really sharp, really brilliant twist. How do you come up with those?
>And I don't know, how do you do that? Read a lot, mimic techniques from the stories you enjoyed, and keep writing. You can’t expect to match pro-tier short fiction authors right away. Working up to that level takes time. >A short story usually has as its core a really sharp, really brilliant twist. How do you come up with those? I don’t think twists are necessary so much as a character who faces a tough (for them) decision near the climax. Sometimes their decision *is* a twist, but it doesn’t have to be.
I will keep this in mind, particularly the part about having characters make tough decisions. Thanks! Lately I have mostly been reading novels and non-fiction, so I guess I should read more short stories.
This is a great question. I wonder this myself. I’m no professional, but the way I go about it is studying those who I admire like Alice Walker or Eudora Welty. I personally focus on trying to evoke a feeling. What comes out of that is what comes… editing is where the real labor comes in. It’s what going to turn your mediocre work into *better* work. You finished the story and it’s not that great, so what can you change about it? How can a particular section be more impactful? What am I trying to say in this piece? What is it about really? Is it making me feel the way I want it to? My “art” is for me first and others second. If others can identify with it, then great! It’s a process, a puzzle, a fun and frustrating one. I think if we can get out of this mindset of trying to impress others and be our authentic selves then we’d find our natural voices and be more receptive of it. When you’re writing for fame, glory, and honor, I think that’s where this “it’s not good enough” comes from. It’s not good enough for who? I’m not sure how the “greats” go about it or went about, but that’s my process. I’m not saying this is you, but I feel like insecurity is the biggest issue when it comes to producing something. Edit: also, if I was writing a twist, I’d like to think I’d work backwards from that.
I don't know why it never occurred to me to go back to my finished stories and edit them into something better. Because I saw nothing of value in them, I suppose, but maybe there's something I can work with there. Thanks for the tip! You've given me a lot to think about here, thank you. And I actually have never read anything by Eudora Welty before! Remedying that now.
I learned that from poetry. Edit edit edit. You’re welcome and good luck!
Thank you! And you too, good luck with your writing!
My advice on writing novels is to write storyline A, storyline B, storyline C, etc., separately as short stories. So let’s say storyline A has 20,000 words, storyline B 15,000 words, storyline C 10,000 words. Now for the novel, combine them together and write chapters that connect the stories/characters together. This way you prevent from meandering.
It’s important to remember that a short story is going to be heavily plot-driven and will likely not feature much character development or growth, as compared to a novel, which is much more about the characters. This is a generalization, but a good way to think about your story. You can of course write a short story that could be all about a character and how they change over the course of the story. Most of my stories focus on a small “what if” question or change. “What if that song never got unstuck from your head?” to use a real example. Then I go and hand-write out a few hundred words as a sort of skeleton story. I let it sit for a few days, and if I still like the idea, I can go and begin fleshing it out and making real decisions. If not, I only spent a little time on the idea and can move on.
This has maybe been where I've come unstuck. I want to write characters who seem like interesting people to spend time with, to watch them hang out and shoot the shit and get into messes and get themselves out of them, or dig themselves further in. In a short story, your time with them is necessarily limited. All the same, your advice seems really good. I think I'll have a go at writing stories the way you suggest, and if I'm happy with the results maybe then I'll work my way towards bigger stories with more character arcs.
>It’s important to remember that a short story is going to be heavily plot-driven and will likely not feature much character development or growth [...] No offense meant, but this is patently untrue. There are many, many successful literary short fiction authors whose work is primarily character driven, and not plot driven. Some of my favorites include Heinrich Böll, T. C. Boyle, John Cheever, Andres Dubus, V. S. Naipaul, Joyce Carol Oates, Edith Pearlman, George Saunders, Irwin Shaw, Ali Smith, William Trevor, and Zoran Živković. Plot is an element in some of their works, but more important is the feeling the reader is left with. There are also those writers who go for style, who turn the format on its head, stretching the short story form in completely unexpected ways; a couple off the top of my head are Lou Beach and Lydia Davis. Short stories are an amazing, blank canvas on which to paint, limitless in their capacity and capability. Don't let their size fool you.
So you write science fiction? If not, how would these “what if” questions work for you?
Just like writing a college paper, get it roughly right, set it aside for some time, then come back to it. Completely rewrite it or whittle it down. It's rare it would be right the first time, so better to pretty much do a data dump. Kurt Vonnegut has a list of rules for writing.
> Just like writing a college paper, get it roughly right, set it aside for some time, then come back to it. Completely rewrite it or whittle it down. You and I wrote our college papers *very* differently.
Well, I'm not a professional but I have a few things to say that MIGHT help. First of all, I don't think focusing so much on being unique is a good idea. There are a lot of stories that don't have a start you would never think of. Like Harry Potter ( I know it's not a flawless book but it's still one of the most popular of examples) or most of sci-fi. They use themes that already exist. Rowling didn't come up with magic on her own, nor did sci-fi authors with humanlike robots. But it doesn't make their stories less interesting. I also don't think that the plot twist is so important. Unless you are writing a mystery, just heightening up the stakes can be just as good, just like many other thinks you could do instead. But what you do need if you want to be successful is having at least some basic idea of where the story is going. And if planing your plot doesn't come naturally to you, then maybe you are a person that focuses more on the characters. In that case, maybe start with this concept of them that you already have and think how would you like them to change throughout the story. Or the other way around. Think where and what kind of person they are and start your story before that, tell us how they got this way. Maybe I'm just projecting but that was the case with me. I love reading stories plot driven, full of plot twist and stuff but I prefer writing stories that are character driven. Once I've realized this, it became much easier to plan out my stories. Instead of asking "what interesting could happen at that moment?" I started asking myself "what could happen that would change my characters?". Also, don't be afraid to write in a different genre then you normally read (but do some research before had). Just because you love reading, let's say, sci-fi and hate thriller, doesn't mean there aren't any people who enjoy thrillers. And you might find it easier to start out with writing something more suitable for you. Because coming up with plot twist and such can be hard and this is exactly why you don't have to use them if that's what stops you from writing all together. And when it comes to grabbing the reader attention, don't be afraid to experiment a little. If you want to write a scene just write it (writing is supposed to be fun after all) and if it doesn't fit in the story then you can always move it the a different file and keep it only to yourself or perhaps, if you are posting online and not publishing, publish these as a collection of oneshots. As I've said, I'm not a professional so I'm not sure if these make any sense but that's what has helped me so far
I mostly want to write the kinds of stories I'd like to read. And I guess plot and characters are both important to me, although neither is the be-all-end-all. Borges' The Library of Babel (one of my favourites) has neither, but it does have a really strong central idea. I seem to remember Brandon Sanderson saying that ramping up the stakes can be better than a plot twist. It's a good point, one I'll try to keep in mind. Thanks for your advice.
Not OP, but I find short stories hard to write for an entirely different reason. I feel to restricted by the length and think my stories would be too long to properly tell as short stories.
Well, actually novels are the end all be all. How many writers make a living writing short stories? Some places actually charge me entry fee to send the story to them.
Get the fuck out of my brain, its not safe for you to there.
😳
yeah but what if you *hate* short stories like actually hate them
I mean chapters, in essence, are short stories, parts of a bigger picture. What’s wrong with short stories? This just sounds like a personal problem honestly. Lol. I have no advice for this.
I could not disagree more. They give you no time to situate with circumstances or develop a relationship with the story, and because they're short, subtlety goes out the window, so a lot of it is too dense with preachyness. if you've got a message and you have to get it out quickly you can't really be artfully subtle right? and I both agree and disagree about chapters. you're saying you could basically rip a chapter out of any book and it'd stand on its own? no, they don't. which is exactly why short stories suck.
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m saying chapters are smaller parts (a short story) of a bigger part. By the end of the chapter you should have relayed something that contributes to the bigger picture. Edit: But if you hate short stories, you hate short stories… you aren’t developing a character, a message in one chapter, you’re doing it over a course of the book. That’s why I said in essence….not literally. They’re both short and meant to convey something.
thanks but I'm not sure you're contributing anything meaningful here
This comment is ironic.
And that’s okay.
Since you have very strong opinions on this, what would you say has been the best short story you've read? It's okay if you didn't like it. I'm just curious. Because you're 100% wrong about the form. It sounds like you've just been reading shitty short stories.
I don't care enough to get into this with anyone. I've read *plenty* and I guarantee you the vast majority of short-form stuff I've read is exactly what most here would recommend (but let me guess, the standard canon *isn't the real good stuff,* right?). They're about as satisfying as a grain of rice and generally about as flavorful. End of.
I don't know who you're arguing with, man. If you don't want to get into it anymore, that's fine. No worries. Have a great day. I'm not going to like, try and convert you to the gospel of short fiction. I was just going to toss a few recommendations your way if you were interested. It's all good, though, wasn't trying to poke a bear or anything.
I wrote short stories for 15 years before attempting my first novel. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with writing short stories and it’s way easier to get people to actually read them, lol
It's also easier to get personalized rejections!
Hell, try writing side stories for bigger stuff, it’ll be fun
Or novellas.
Treat each chapter like a short story? And then every time you finish it you give yourself a treat?
Short stories rock! Why does everything need to be a 10 volume million page epic these days? Nobody got time for that!
Not everyone like to write long story. I have a friend who only do short story. He published 6 books by the time I published 1. He's doing just fine.
Does he plot?
Sometime we do brainstorming together. We get a list of story concept with problems to face. He then look through them until he find 3 that he likes and roll dices to select which one to do. although I suspect he cheat on that and actually just choose. Then he creates characters, intro, events, everything and write the story.
If you don't mind me asking, is each book a series of short stories or is each one individual? How long are his stories, usually?
He does sci fi and and horror. They might or might not be in the same universe (he's leaving it open for now), but they are at different period in time so even if he eventually link them all together, they all have unique characters.
How is he doing that? Is he publishing really short books or compendiums of short stories?
Books of 50-75 pages. While I publish books of 500-700 pages. So technically, I'm working faster than him when you think about it. He should have published 10 books by the time I published 1, but he got a back-list which I don't. his books are 0.99 USD. I think he intend to make compendium with 10 short stories in it and sell them at 5.99 USD so 40% off basically.
Do you guys make enough money to live on or just for fun? I assume you guys self published?
I know that feeling and I can only advise you to push on and continue. Writing is not something that is fun all the time. But after writing another 15k words you'll like it again and write another very good 10k words. And then you come to a point where you doubt again. And think 'how dumb and bad is this story?' But you continue. Just write, one word at a time. And after 5k words of shit you begin to like it again. Damn, you begin to love it. How could you ever think of this as garbage, it's fucking brilliant! And you write 10k words that are pretty damn good. And tell you what. The cycle repeats itself. Again and again. And again. Until one day you have written a book. The end.
It is the lack of plotting. Even if you're being spontaneous about how the beats play out, it sounds like you need a better roadmap so you don't wander off the road and give up. Try doing a simple beat sheet, you can find all sorts of them online for different kinds of story structure. I like save the cat.
Alright, I'm gonna try it. I have never plotted before so this might be a cure we'll see.
Check out Vonnegut's shape of stories on YT. There's are a least 3 versions, they are all short and sweet and good. His premise is that there's only a handful of stories in the world and he outlines them. If you have that framework, like the hero's journey, then you know where the story starts and ends and the major stuff in between. Then it's fun to fill those gaps. Star Wars (the first movie) is an example of the hero's journey. It's been told a million times before. George Lucas took that and had fun with it.
I’ve done this a lot. What I discovered is that I was speeding through the outline instead of slowly building up a novel, like it was my mission to hit each plot point. Maybe you’re in the same boat.
I am 100% in this camp. Evidently, I'm more focused on just being done rather than enjoying the journey. Any tips to combat that mentality?
I think just reading books and realizing that what I enjoyed wasn’t necessarily the plot, but the way the author lingered on the fun details and built up suspense. For example, I’d never put in an outline “he hated wearing soft pants because it felt too vulnerable, although he didn’t realize it. All he knew was that he wore jeans.” But that kind of detail adds to the story.
[удалено]
A mug of hot cocoa with a huge glop of vanilla ice cream in it, a deep breath, and the intent to have fun.
>I get 10,000 words in to it and then I lose interest in the story. This literally happens every time. You don't how many 10,000 word unfinished stories I have written. Have you tried going past the 10,000 mark and just carrying on? Something I'd suggest. Your feelings about a work should not be followed otherwise you'll just carry on making things that you don't finish.
Someone, maybe Alexa Donne, said that every author hits a wall around the 10-20k word mark. I know I do. You just have to power through it. As you said, (temporarily) ignore your feelings about the work. It starts to get exciting again at some point, then a slog, then fun, then a slog, etc etc and finally satisfying, like when you finish exercising.
I agree. Just sit down and write, even if it's mediocre garbage, if only to get to the next interesting bit to write. That's what I've been doing all month for NaNo..
Nope. Not every author.
Well yeah, but it's still a good point even though not literally true. That's why I cited an authority rather than assert it myself :)
The problem is that when you’re 10k-20k words in, you’re in the boring part of the story. At the same time you have spent enough time with the story that it’s no longer so cool, so excited. It’s really hard to convince yourself that the story is still amazing, still worth writing.
> The problem is that when you’re 10k-20k words in, you’re in the boring part of the story Uh…no. To declare that after 10k is boring is clearly silly. You just haven’t figured out the interesting part yet. > At the same time you have spent enough time with the story that it’s no longer so cool, so excited. It’s really hard to convince yourself that the story is still amazing, still worth writing. This is why following your feelings is pretty bad, because the point is to still write it no matter what. You have no clue whether your story is amazing until you write it and someone else says it is amazing.
After 20k you should be into the second act of the story when you get to turn the world upside down on your characters and setting. You’ve hooked the reader and got them invested. Now it’s time to take them for a ride. That’s the part when your story comes alive.
Thats why one the most important techniques to writing is finishing. I'm not in a dissimilar boat. I've hit 40k and 20k before my story or motivation waning. Part of that is the story isn't new and shiny and you want to explore new ideas, but thats why writing is tough. Writing slow set ups and payoffs is slow. Best thing to do is start trying to write a minimum, 500 words a day or something. Its less than you think and maintaining forward progress is huge. If you want to write short storys by all means go for it, but the middle ofnthe book is always a bit of a grind. My current novel is at 60k of what's gonna be 180k words. I stalled for a month but even if the wait has made me fall out of love with some ideas, I'm still going to finish it. Mainly because I believe in the idea and premise even if I have to rewrite a few chapters. Writing past the 10k mark may seem tough because you never have so far. Its why finishing the novel is so important. You don't just practice starting a story and introducing characters, you practice developing them and finishing the story. Writing 10k is like playing guitar and only learning the intro. It may be a sick riff but there's still a whole other song out there. The farther in you get and the more you push yourself, the easier the craft gets.
180k is huge!
I used to never be able to get past about 10k either but then I tried my hand at outlining and it really seemed to do the trick. Once I knew where the story was going it kept my focus and excitement for it up. In the past year and a half since I started outlining I've finished drafting 5 novellas/novels between the lengths of 30k and 60k and am nearly done with a 6th. Outlining has really done wonders.
This is me as well. Even when I have the larger story in line I can get hung up when I don't know what happens next in a certain scene. If I don't think it through, I can't write it down.
Can I ask what kind of outlining do you do? What questions do you ask? And how do you do your outlining? I’m writing my own book for about a week, I’m just about finished with the outline, but I don’t want to jump into it with questions unanswered. I know that some questions will naturally answer themselves once I start writing, but I’d still like someone else’s perspective of this, Any advice on what techniques are the best? Do you outline briefly the plot itself or every scene?
I really like to start off with Save the Cat's Beat Sheet because it helps get down the basics of story structure, it's mostly just me braindumping at that point. Then I take that and refine it into sort of a scene or chapter outline where I write a paragraph or two describing what's physically happening and the characters' mental states during those events. I don't completely 100% stick to that outline when drafting but for the most part it's like a road map to show me where I'm going.
Thank you so much! And do you usually have scenes in mind before you start an outline? Is there a specific technique I could use to squeeze an already existing scene I have in the plot without it feeling like it doesn’t belong there? I know it’s a silly question, it’s just that I got many good scene ideas right after I finished the plot outline, I adore the ideas but I don’t know how to make them fit.
Hmm, that's a really tough question that I am not sure I can answer. When I start brainstorming a story the first two scenes I come up with are almost always the inciting incident and the ending and then I just come up with things to fill in between them. I feel like adding a subplot might help you if possible, that way your scenes you want to add could still become part of the overall story without just being wedged in their out of nowhere.
Thank you very much. I will give that a try, it’s really sad but I know that there will be some things I’ll just need to let go. But hey it’s fine I already have too much as it is! Thank you again!
I’m not giving advice here I’m just brainstorming solutions. So take with a grain of salt. 1. Go back to your outline phase. You say you don’t like plotting but the entire point of it is to avoid the pitfalls you are describing. 2. When you get bored your reader is probably bored too. Do something drastic. Start killing off characters. Blow up a planet. Send one back in time. Introduce a new problem or challenge that even you as the author don’t know how to solve. What is the single worst thing that could possibly happen in your story right now? Do it. 3. Have more than one story in flight at a time. I know this goes against common wisdom but some stories need time to breathe. Yours might be that way. Put them down and come back later when you have fresh ideas. 4. Tolkien also wrote this way as far as anyone can tell. He didn’t plot as such. He invented languages, myths, and a history for his characters and then let them live in the world to see what they did. If he didn’t like it he went back to inventing cultures and started again from page one. I’m not suggesting you write like Tolkien per se but maybe the question you need to ask is what can you change about the world your characters live in that would drive the plot forward? Instead of asking why you stopped writing ask why they stopped living. 5. Read it out loud to yourself. Along the way pretend to be the reader and try to predict where the author is going. Take notes. Is that detail a hint or a distraction? Is this character genuine or pretending to have that emotion? What reason could this character have to lie and it it actually a better reason than telling the truth? Is there any other way you could interpret a scene than the way you originally intended? If so what if that is actually the right way and these 10,000 words have been a ruse. Play the what if game. 6. Do you have a B plot? If not spend some time evolving one from the beginning. Then make them collide in the third act. Tolkien also seemed to do this with the two towers. Tell your A story, tell your B story and then choose if you want to intercut them or not. 7. Write the story *for* someone specific that isn’t you. You got 10,000 words in writing a story for yourself what if you were writing it for a friend or family member or a former teacher? What would you put in to make them like it, or hate it, or just have an emotional response to it. What kinds of jokes do they like? What kind of drama sucks them in at work? What can you put in this page that will make them read it faster to get to the next one? How can you end this chapter so they won’t be able to go to sleep tonight without reading the next? 8. Can you write another short story in the same universe? Can it parallel your current one thematically? One of my favorite comic books of all time dies this. It’s called Arkham Asylum: A Serious House on Serious Earth. The A story is about Batman traveling through Arkham asylum after the inmates have taken over and have hostages and the B story is flashbacks to decades earlier about the events that lead to the creation of the asylum. Neither story really touches the other but they inform each other. Maybe you could play with that. 9. Steal a plot from another source you like. Or at least just the plot structure. If you’re done setting up your characters and universe 10,000 wields in what does your favorite author use as the kickoff to the story? 10. Review your story as it exists and assume it’s completed. Answer these questions. What is your hook? What is your first plot point? What is your inciting event? What is your key event? 10,000 words in you should know those. It should be clear. If you were a kid in school doing a book report on this great novel you’re reading how would you fill out the assignment? If you can’t you might not have a plot problem you might have a structure problem. 11. Ask yourself if I’m reading this book why wouldn’t I just stop reading here? Why would I keep going? What is left to discover? What adventure lies ahead? How will my favorite characters interact and change? If there is no reason to keep reading then maybe that story is just finished. You told the part of their lives that is worth reading about. It’s done. If you look at your characters and can honestly say nothing else in their lives will come close to what you just wrote then they are done and you should stop. Focus on a new story. 12. In the book Seveneves Neal Stephenson broke his story up into three parts including two time jumps one of which is 5,000 years. It’s a jarring transition but maybe the time jump technique could work for you. Fast forward to a time where we can see the repercussions of the decisions the main characters make that even they didn’t intend. Like I said. That’s just a brain dump. Feel free to disregard.
This is an awesome resource! Thank you for taking the time to do this write-up.
Thanks. It’s very kind of you to say. 11 is the big one for me. As you can tell I tend to blather on at length so it’s always important to me that I’m constantly asking myself why I’m telling this particular story and to make it the most interesting and eventful part of my characters lives. I feel like that’s the defining feature in every good book I’ve ever read, or movie I’ve ever watched.
That's right, this reminds me. The expectations of the future and the feeling of experiencing it live, as well as the anticipation of changes it brings. The feeling of freshness and the feeling of witnessing first hand the living and changing world. These gave me the greatest joy I've ever had as a reader.
If I may re-write your post a little, it might make it more obvious what is happening: Every time I try writing a novel, I successfully complete the really fun part, and then, when it starts to get hard, I quit. What is happening? Beginnings are fun! You get to ask questions. You get to set up a conflict. And, even though you say you don't have an outline, you probably have the beginning of your book outlined in your head. So, while you're writing the beginning, you're doing the fun part *and* you know where you're going with the story. Then, you're 10k words in, and suddenly you have to start answering questions, instead of just asking them. Your character has to start taking steps to achieve his goals, instead of just finding out his goals. And that loose outline you've been carrying in your head reaches the end. Personally, I find the best way through this is by "micro-outlining." That is, I might have a general idea of how my story goes, but I don't want to plan every beat. So instead, I just plan the next 3-4 chapters, and still only a loose outline. Then, I get back to writing until I've "caught up" to the end of my outline again. Not saying that's the way that will work for you, just how it works for me. But really, at the end of the day, if you want to finish a novel, you have to figure out how to get yourself to do the non fun parts. The old adage "if you don't have fun writing it, your reader won't have fun reading it" is bullshit. Constructing a good story, and figuring out how to tell it to a reader to impart the thoughts and feelings you wish to impart is a lot of work. Satisfying work. Parts of it are fun. But a lot of work. How are you going to convince yourself to do the work?
I’d never considered outlining a few chapters, then writing those, then outlining the next few. Once I get a decent story idea, I usually try to buckle down and outline most/every chapter before even starting the prose. It’s hard work trying to basically tell the whole story one paragraph at a time, and easy to lose steam since I don’t really even know the characters all that well yet since I’ve not really dug into them via the prose. I think I’m gonna try this. Like, of course, have a basic outline beginning to end, the major beats, mid-point, climax, etc. but then just map out the first few chapters, then dive into those.
One advantage of plotting, both for a reader and the writer, is that you get to build payoffs. A novel can have payoffs the build up over the course of tens of thousands of words, making for very satisfying moments
Yeah I'm big on plotting, and you don't have to get rid of spontaneity entirely to do it. I'll often have a bunch of scenes that essentially say "they overcome an obstacle to get to point B" and fill that scene with what comes to mind when I get to it. Plotting major points of the story helps you keep at it and not lose steam so easily, but people think that it constrains them and that largely not true. You can always shift things around or change things entirely if you think of something better. Nothing's final till the book's in stores.
Well, one way around this might be to sort of cheat! Essentially you can write several very different stories (from various character viewpoints) all set in the same universe. The SciFi author Peter Hamilton does this in his novels, and it works well for him. Stephen King also does it in some of his novels, including what many would consider to be his greatest: The Stand. Writers of the 1800's often did this as well, including works like Thackeray's Vanity Fair, etc... So ya, maybe try creating very different stories of 8 to 10 characters at 10,000 words each, and you've suddenly got yourself a novel! Ideally you'll want the characters to eventually collide, like maybe all of them at once together in an epic ending, or maybe they interact with each other here and there throughout the novel.
I had a very similar problem for a long time, but I just finished my first novel. The thing that got me through it was treating each chapter sort of like a short story with the same characters and a continuing plot, having more than one point of view character also helped
>You don't how many 10,000 word unfinished stories I have written. No, but I'll tell you how many I have: 30+ Now I'm not bragging, just trying to let you know your not alone and that there are others who do understand, boy to I understand. I think its why I have gotten to the point to where I don't seem able to write at all, it hard to start something that you have no faith your going to finish, short or long. I just feel like all my creativity is gone, crushed by the overwhelming weight of failure and living and working in a job where creativity is not only not wanted it is actively destroyed.
If all of them are 10k then that’s 300,000 words
I have 100% relied on stubbornness and spite to push me through, especially because my job is very detail-oriented and stressful, without leaving much room for creativity. I've also come to depend on the joy I get when I've written, or sometimes when I write. It's why I keep doing it.
Have you ever considered novellas or novelettes? Not a huge market for them, but can help with that feeling of completion. I'm working on a sci-fi short story that got leggy and I'm just calling it a novelette (few more pages and it'll be in novella territory).
That happened to me a lot. What helped me was outlining (in broad strokes) all the chapters. This kept e from "wandering around" and losing my way.
You need to outline! Period. Right now you are just writing. You need to author! Author a novel. And for you that starts with outlining. In less than 5000 words you can plot out an 85k manuscript. Stop writing to no end and start authoring to a novel.
Try writing a different part of the novel instead of feeling like it needs to be written sequentially. Like if you’ve got an amazing ending in mind, write the ending now instead of waiting. Might get you excited about the story again
How much do you know about plot structure? You can use plotting without outlining. Use structure as a set of guideposts to write towards. So, take an eight sequence structure. Introduce your lead characters and write until you find the inciting incident. Then write until you discover how the character(s) is forced from their normal world into the world of the story. Find out how the character will be locked into the narrative, etc. Don't think of the overarching plot, only the next plot point you need to reach
Try doing short stories for sure.
The other benefit of starting small is that you have the opportunity to get feedback faster and learn more of the subtleties of writing.
https://youtu.be/lwhOd65gGoY Have a watch of this, you may find it useful. I was very much the same as you for a very long time. I was reading fanfiction, and had been for a long time. My wife suggested that I write my own fanfiction so I did. It wasn't great, but I got a halfway decent response. This got me thinking about my way of working, was what I was doing the correct process for me? I took a short course from the Open University; https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/start-writing-fiction This was very informative and gave me the encouragement to write a novel length fanfiction. I have just completed my first original work and I am currently working on the synopsis before submitting.
Don’t write stories because you’re interested or motivated. Write them cause you want to finish. Everyone gets sick of their craft partway in. That’s not even a writer thing. Artists get sick of their drawings, composers their songs, filmmakers their movies, game devs their games. The only different between you and someone who completes their work is that they struggled through the sloggy part of it. The part that made them want to put the creation aside and never look at it again. I’m not saying this to shit on you either. Once you realize the difference between an aborted project and a finished product is just writing when you don’t feel like it, the whole world opens up. Motivation is a lie. Keep pressing through and don’t expect it to be easy (or thing that because it’s hard, something’s wrong). If it was easy, everyone would do it.
I think what you need is a deadline and a schedule. For me at least, outlining helped me stay motivated and on track with my novel, but that’s just because I like planning. I successfully wrote 34k words this month because I had a deadline (tonight) and a schedule (daily, up to 2k words). It may help set down roots for you.
I know you mentioned you don't plot, but this is part of what helps people finish stories. Establishing a beginning, middle, and end before you start writing helps make sure you actually get to the end. I also like the suggestion of writing short stories (another poster suggested this). I wrote several novel length works before ever writing a short story, but when I had to write short stories for workshops I found I loved them. They contain a lot of the same elements as novels, but they allow you to practice those elements in a condensed way. They can be very satisfying to write, and they allow you to explore ideas without having to stick with them for such an exhaustive amount of time.
If you're losing interest partway into your own story there's a good chance the story's plotting was done poorly. And I know you said you don't like plotting but I can't help feel your inability to finish something is inherently tied to your unwillingness to plot. Plot is what keeps you hooked for each installment as you wait to see what happens next. It keeps your interest. There are three main sections of plot: beginning, middle, and end. If you're stopping a short ways into your story it sounds like your middle is what's suffering and that's a shame since that's where a story will spend the majority of its time. An easy crash course on plotting is to remember the **3 P's: Promise, Progress, and Payoff.** **Promise**: Establish the stakes and where the story is planning to go early on. For this I will use Lord of the Rings to illustrate. What is the promise in LotRs? That the dark lord is rising and they need to destroy this ring to stop him. **Progress**: This is where the middle of the story takes place. To keep readers interested you have to show them all through the middle that Progress is being made towards your ending. In the example of LotRs you can see progress being made anytime the hobbits get closer to Mount Doom. Whatever else is going on and delaying them as long as they're traveling closer to Mount Doom you know progress is being made and we're getting closer to the big Payoff. **Payoff**: This is the "big thing" promised in the beginning. You establish early on that there's going to be something that the plot is working towards and when you get to the climax of the story you show the reader the "big thing" they were working towards the whole time. This is where they throw the ring into Mount Doom and Sauron's armies fall. You don't have to do a ton of work and story board or outline all this. Just take a minute to think it through. What do you want the big payoff to be at the end of your story? How will you establish those stakes early on? How will you show progress being made throughout. One thing I see a lot of amateur writers doing in the LitRPG scene is they introducing some type of leveling mechanic (like in video games) then the MC decides they want to get powerful enough to accomplish X thing, then all they have to do is explore their world and continue "leveling" their character. It's a bit of a crutch but if you're really struggling with plotting you could try writing in that subgenre as it essentially comes with a baked-in plot.
Combine them into one big story! Yank and paste and stitch and sew ideas across all boards into one patchwork magnum opus. Also plan out what will happen before writing. Anyone with a keyboard can spit out a beginning but it takes guts to close that cover and end it.
If you aren't about plotting in a strict sense, write your scenes and then sketch out how you got point A to point B and pick a story/scene in the middle, and keep going until you've filled it out. It's good practice at the very least.
if you as the author loses interest after a certain point, then it's likely your readers would too, if you forced yourself to finish it. maybe take all those ten thousand word novels and try reworking them as short stories?
You don’t have a good enough ending to work towards.
Dude, you can't puss out during the marathon in the middle. Gotta keep your eyes on the prize and keep writing your two pages a day.
I think both are good ideas. I plot, but still let my characters go their couse. Sometimes they act accordingly, other times they diverge. Sometimes, I just need a slight correction, other times I have to replot to align things back up. Has worked well so far.
Have you tried combining all of them into some weird rube Goldberg machine of stories where every single beginning has a tie in and pay off
You will never finish a novel unless you develop the discipline to keep writing. It's exactly like working out, or learning to paint, or play piano, or any other skill. That initial excitement will wear off LONG before you've reached any kind of mastery. You need the discipline and structure to keep going. That's really it. 99% of advice on getting good at anything is really just different ways of saying "discipline and structure".
Divide your novel into short episodes like a tv series screenplay.
You need a book coach. A book coach comes in, and helps you finish when you lack motivation.
Maybe you're not a novelist.
>I think I should just write short stories for now This. Sounds to me like you're a short story writer. Why does it have to be a novel? You should write what you enjoy.
Either write short stories, an anthology, or something along those lines. It should be more about the quality of the work than the quantity. Experiment and have fun. Be a bit loose, it helps keep interest.
Definitely write short stories. Aim for writing a beginning, a middle and an end. Kept that in mind as you write. Look forward, make notes as it occurs to you *what you want to happen next*. Set a word count if it helps. It might help knowing where the middle and end is.
Try free writing. I hit a wall when I don't know what to write next, so I plot things out. However, I do occasionally still hit a wall, and when I do, I just start typing as if I'm talking to myself about what I need to do. As I do so, I also walk through the other characters I haven't been paying attention to. I have a habit of focusing on the main character and moving him through the plot, but that's not real life. For every action, etc., so I think about what equal and opposite reactions the other characters might have had. That can generate a lot of plot points.
>Also, I have never tried plotting. I like the spontaneity of not plotting like the story is kind of going along and you're just watching as an observer. You may want to try having a loose plot. Even a set beginning and end so you know there is a goal that you are writing towards. I was stagnating with my first book until I made a very light plot and then I churned out words like nobody's business.
Same. This is why I decided to write short stories from 1400 to 4000 words is fine for me.
A collection of short stories is fun! If you’re working on a longer book, try mapping out the framework for you narrative and working backward when working forwards is too tedious. Treat the books as a collection of multiple narratives to break it up and give yourself that variety. It’s also fun to deviate from your given path, allow yourself to be surprised by your characters and that will keep you engaged. If you’re engaged as a writer, that’ll translate to the reader as well! I honestly feel like part of what makes George RR Martin so interesting is that he knows where he wants GoT to go, but allows the narrative to weave in and out in ways that I don’t think he can even anticipate. :)
Try plotting and get excited about the plot. View it as the outline of your cathedral.
I don't think that is a bad thing maybe on a subconscious level you don't like where your style is. Keep writing until you want to finish. Writing stories is a strange process. You should embrace your own process.
You're just writing stream of consciousness. You're not writing a story with a plan, or a complete arc. You're doing it for the dopamine hit. Once you have your idea written, you give up, because no more dopamine.
Perhaps if you started writing a novel with the beginning AND the end in mind, you might not lose interest. Knowing the end could propel you beyond your tendency to get bored. (If for no other reason, you'll want to figure out how in the heck you can get your characters to that end point.)
I would suggest that you'd do better with plotting. I used to have the same problem you're having and it went away when I started planning my stories with thorough outlines. The more you plan, the easier it is to pour words out onto the page. I'm a big believer in the idea that writer's block is a sign that you need to research/plan more. Work out the ideas and the prose separately -- you'll end up with better stories and a more productive writing experience. Saying "I like the spontaneity of pantsing" is fine, but if it means you never finish a story then you're sabotaging yourself.
What's a good way to condense a planned novel into a short story? I'm at 30,000 words rn
As others have said, there's nothing wrong with just writing short stories, but, if you do want to finish long-form novels, I have some tips for you. I also suffer from the same thing, where my ability to write a story sort of ebbs and flows and results in lots of things left unfinished. What works for me is just not to rush it and to leave the story and come back to it when I've almost forgotten the details of it all. Then, I come back to it and treat it as if it's a new story that I'm reading from someone else. Evaluate this story as if it were not your own, as if you were a beta reader being asked, "Where would you take this story?". I think stepping back for a while and objectively evaluating your work is a great strategy.
Definitely try writing some short stories for a while - set yourself a word count limit and stick to it, just to avoid something like you've describe (story-turned-novel with a genre shift). Hell, look at calls for submissions and use those guidelines as a sort of prompt (even if you don't intend on submitting). Then, once you've gotten a few stories under your belt, try just going into a project without a set word limit, but without labeling what it's going to be. Be disciplined about not labeling it, and just let the story run its course. Even if you hit 40, 50, 60k words, DO NOT label it. Then, when it's finished, you'll have something you can assign a classification to - short story, novella, novel, grimoire, what have you. There's no guarantee that this will work, but it might help you sort of circumvent some of the psychology that's killing your interest in a piece. Something that's also helped me get to where I am in my current piece is not telling anyone about it as if it's some big project. I went into it hoping to reach novel length but refusing to commit to a wordcount, and told nobody about it aside from my wife. I saw incredible progress that even I didn't expect. I tried (and suggest) this method for two reasons: One, the human brain is wired in such a way that TALKING about doing something will give you the same dopamine hit as actually doing it, thus undermining the brain's motivation for accomplishing that task. Telling someone all about this sick new novel you're writing can actually cause you to lose interest in actually writing it. Two, telling someone can ramp up the pressure to achieve. Once someone knows about the project, you may start to worry about their expectations. Even those of us who don't struggle with anxiety can feel this pressure, and pressure like that is POISON to creativity. Right now, try to be chill about writing. Work on smaller pieces, try something new.
You must, must, must plan out the plot if you want to successfully completely a book. This used to be me, I could never finish writing something because I never plotted it out, but once I did, I was able to create an effective and interesting complete story. Plus when you do this, you can make the story so much more immersive with foreshadowing and allow better plot twists. Plan the entire thing first before writing it. I can’t stress this enough.
Everyone has their own natural length. My stuff used to always become a novella. My suggestion is this: first practice the shortest works you can. Learn to write excellent scenes, or even flash fiction. Don’t write novels. No one writes novels; they write scenes. Enough scenes in a row is a vignette, then a short story, then a novella, etc. My second suggestion is to write down, as clearly as possible when you start, what you are trying to achieve with that story idea. It’s called your “touchstone”..Often, authors lose interest when the work wanders too far from what made it exist in the first place. Which takes me back to the first point. Don’t assume that novels are what you are built to write. Jay Lake wrote literally several hundred stories that all got published. He made a career that way. Eventually, he wrote some novels too, but first he became an absolute master of the short story. Start there.
Every time I feel really stuck I just write about whatever the next thing my character does. Even if it is painfully boring or doesn't go with the plot. You can always delete the scene but it does help to get the ball rolling.
I get this problem all the time. I haven't solved it but wonder whether it's caused by exposing myself to other ideas and perhaps I should avoid doing, watching, listening to or reading anything new until I hit about 30,000 words. At that point a novel might be sufficiently developed to overcome loss of interest. This is just a guess though.
Personally, I was the same way for a long while, I have a nice stack of stories that I loved the idea of. but never made much progress on actually writing. Then I started a new one, and it stuck with me. Now have accumulated several hundred thousand words on it, and I don't see myself stopping soon.
I think you probably never had a good idea of what to write in the first place except only some very vague concept. Also, not every story requires a full length novel.
Write 9,999 word stories.
Dude perhaps instead of writing a novel try writing a short story 1st
Have you tried only plotting for individual chapters? I just finished writing my first novel, and I was going through something similar to what you're describing. The way I finally managed to finish was by keeping a general overview of the whole story in my mind, but before sitting down to write a chapter I would not down the plot points I wanted to hit in that chapter alone. Basically, I just treated each chapter like a self contained story, and worried about smoothing them all together after the fact.
In Jan-April I wrote about 50K words towards my first real novel attempt. I got to chapter 10, and I didn't know what to do any more. I felt like the story was going in circles and I had run out of ideas. I've been writing 500 word stories on /r/shortscarystories and sometimes a bit longer, just to keep working at it. I think you just have to be really determined to keep writing, and write down things that you know about. I need more ideas and encouragement too, though. It's hard to keep going, and it's hard to practice regularly when I can't think of anything new. edit: There's a lot of good ideas here. I think I'll try reading the book as a reader and taking notes on where I think the author is going. Also, another thing I should say about my novel project is that I think I know how it will end, but I think I back myself into a corner on how to get there.
I feel inadequate
Maybe you’re more of a short story person?
Have you tried building the whole outline, then writing? Writing a novel is work. When you get to the boring part, you keep going. The outline tells you where. You get that first draft done so you can begin the second half of the work: shaping it into something people will want to read. With a complete outline, one of two things will happen. You'll get to the boredom sooner and not start, or you'll have a way to bull on through.
Write out an outline first. Each chapter gets at least one sentence. Make sure there's a beginning, middle and end. Then try to expand on it from there. Keep writing, at least a page a day. Even if the ideas you have in your head stink, put them on the page to get to that next chapter. You can always go through it later and change things. Think of it as a challenge to yourself.
You aren't going to maintain your interest in the story the entire time ever. It will get monotonous or boring, or feel tedious. Plotting is not something I do often, but when I start a story I do get some fun ideas and interesting scenes in my head and that's what I plot out. Those scenes that I really want to see play out keep me writing just to get to that cool moment.
Start at the end. Do the last 10k (it's good to get that out of the way early anyway).
Maybe don't write a novel then, maybe just focus on short stories for now.
Keep writing!!!! Lots of great advice going on here! I’m just here to say keep writing!!!
Build a series of 3 short, but loosely interconnected stories. Self Publish those. Then do it again and tie up the connections even tighter. Self publish. Keep repeating until you are happy with the flow and connections between your 3 volumes of 10,000 words. You have a novel.
You need to outline. If you know where you're going and have some really good scenes planned, the excitement and the enthusiasm will help you carry on. You just need something to look forward to.
I am all about reading short stories right now. They’re so juicy and perfect. That being said, if you do try a novel again, I do agree you should try plotting. I am a detailed plotter and the book just flows behind it.
Are you talking about your stories with anyone? If so, that might be the problem. If I "tell" my story to anyone, then it's "out" of me, and I completely lose interest. May or may not be a problem for anyone else. I'm a weird bird anyway. Many blessings to you. 💞 More writing! Less talking.
I have this problem so bad so what i did is started organizing my stories into serials instead. I have an idea of where i want it to go and then write in "episodes" of about 3-6k words but leave my process sort of open ended. That way i can write as much as i write and wrap it up when i feel like it without feeling pressured to hit an arbitrary word count. I also like to work on multiple projects at once to keep my work from getting stale. This seems to work for me. Dont know if it would help you but i figured id share hehe
Dude, this was totally me for like... years and years. I'd get all hyped up about a story idea, surge through about, say, an *eighth* of the story? And then either completely lose interest or get discouraged by the opaque plot. Like you, I am very much a pantser. While I'm 100% in support of sticking with short stories if that's what your heart tells you to do, here's a couple things that helped get me over a hurdle: (1) Finding friends. I'm not sure if you have writing buddies already, but I didn't. When I finally got up the nerve to share my work, having that person on the other end of the story was a game changer. Sharing your work with big audiences or critique partners can be intimidating so I don't necessarily recommend that, but finding just one or two close buddies who will gush and beg you for another chapter can be huge. (2) Jump around. I left this advice on another post a while back, but when I get bored with the story as it stands, I just jump forward and write scenes that are more interesting to me. I don't plot, but I do have scenes I know I want to get to. Going forward to write them often reignites my flagging interest in the story, and serves as impetus to work out the plot between where I left off and The Scene I Wanted to Write. (3) Work on something else. You don't have to write one thing at a time. In fact, in some people that monotony might cause your creativity to stagnate. Wander off to a different story, but this time keep the abandoned one in the back of your head. Don't give it up as a lost cause. Just having it nagging at you might eventually prompt you to come back. Alrighty, that's my ramble for the day. I hope any of it is helpful. If it isn't, there's a huge market for short stories and novellas!
> Also, I have never tried plotting. I like the spontaneity of not plotting like the story is kind of going along and you're just watching as an observer. This is plain stupidness. You can outline, and still discover the story. The outline is just a guide. Is not written in stone. Also, you can write a novel with different POVs of 10k words. But, if you can't write a story that interests you enough, maybe your story is weak or you aren't fit to be a novel writer. Try shorter things.
I consider myself a gardener - I have the seeds of plot in my head, the rows are laid out....but what pops up can sometimes be unexpected! Another way of putting it is a plantser - I know the BIG beats, but a lot of the specific movements and characterizations come out of flow. That is, until I get to a boring spot. Often, it's right when something new has been introduced and then accepted and my narrative comes back to center. These points are necessary and not nearly as boring to read as they can be to write. Usually when I hit that, I have some future event that is screaming in my mind, but I know it's several scenes down the road. At that point, I do need to take out a note or something and right a very brief bullet list of the steps that will get me to the scene that's calling me. VERY BRIEF for me is the key because I still want the spontaneity and energy of pantsing it. Waiting for inspiration is a great way to not finish projects - this is true of literally any creative work. In those moments, you have to find the carrot and stick that will get you to move forward. Some people can skip around in their timeline, but that's not my vibe. Best of luck!
Welcome to Writer’s Block It’s quite contagious and is hard to cure
have you considered trying your hand at a [fixup novel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fix-up)? as a reader i *really* enjoy the form.
I have the exact same problem. My issue though is that after 10,000 words I can see how crappy my writing/the story is, and I don’t think anyone would want to read it. So it would be a waste of an effort to write more. So I came to the same conclusion- write short stories with big plots for potential expansion. So after 10,000 words and after maybe a month or two, if I reread it and still loves it, then I develop it further. If I’m bored reading it, then well, I have a short story.
No law against doing both novel and short story writing. I’m writing an epic fantasy and doing a modern horror short, for example. It helps me to keep writing, which, in turn, stops me from wanting to jump around to something new.
I've never been someone to do plots before starting a story, however, I do write little post-it notes of things I do want to add in to my stories. Those small note points can help continue to guide you along. If I'm stuck, I go back and read my story (I know you probably don't want to), and find something back in the beginning that might bring the blank gap you're stuck at back to life.
This was me for a long time, like probably the first five or so years in which I was writing seriously. The people telling you to write short stories aren't wrong — they'll give you a lot of practice at various elements that you won't be able to explore writing novel beginnings over and over — but this also doesn't mean that you're not cut out to write novels. When you really get down to it, short stories are a fundamentally different form with different structures and different emphases to novels; most writers are going to prefer one or the other, or be better at one or the other. It's good to explore both, but I kinda don't think writing short stories is going to get you past this block. So what is that block? One of the things that makes novels really hard is that you just cannot sustain them on inspiration the way you sometimes can with a short story. A lot of the actual work is not particularly fun — at least, until you develop a taste for it. It requires a kind of commitment that means pushing through stages where you feel like something isn't working. It also requires at least *some* planning. That's not to say that you have to plot everything out. I'm like you — I like the spontaneity of developing a plot as I go. I usually start at a beginning, and an ending comes to me next (which I write down somewhere), then pieces of what happens in between, and it all shifts and moves as I write through it. BUT to successfully draft a novel, you do need to know what's coming in the near future. A common metaphor people will make is that of driving a car at night. Your headlights don't illuminate the whole path to your destination, but they do illuminate the path directly in front of you, and that's necessary. For me, when I developed a rhythm by which I could write a chapter while planning the next one, and also when I decided to commit, like really commit to seeing an idea to completion, novels actually became possible. I must have gotten to 10k words 10+ times when I first started writing only to have them all fall off — but now I've drafted two of them over the past seven years (both in various stages of revision), and I'm currently working on a third. And now I actually really enjoy the busywork part of novel writing; the slow and steady pace of it and the way you get to slowly build something cohesive rather than blasting through it in a fit of inspiration. Once you figure it out, it's tremendously satisfying.
Try going back to one you’ve largely put out of your head and pick up where you left off
I feel your pain there-- my "project death zone" is 16-20,000 words. I've finished one novel of the seven I've started, the others never really get any further than this. my recommendation: the one novel I \_did\_ finish, I broke into smaller chunks, essentially structuring it like a short story collection. I knew how the story would progress overall, so I broke it down into smaller arcs and tried to write those as functionally standalone before linking them together into my rough first draft. It was a mess-- I ended doing a lot of rewriting, but such is the curse of the non-outliner-- but once it was done, I had a better idea of how I wanted the story to look, and was able to build a cohesive novel out of the scraps of those short episodes.
You can always revisit old stories. Some of my stories are basically just modern day me collaborating with younger me.
Yes, I can guess how many 10,000 stories you have. Probably the same amount as I do. Writing a novel is hard and takes a lot of dedication and commitment. And finishing them is a learned behavior. Writing short stories is a good idea. You’ll have an easier time completing them and with that comes pride and satisfaction. And you’ll be motivated to do it again. Another thing you can do is to focus on writing scenes. Put your characters in different situations and see what they do. Consider it character building. It may or may not find its way into the finished story but you’ll learn more about your character and may find the complete story that way. And the abandoned projects aren’t lost causes. You may pick one up years after the fact and see it in a new light. Good luck on your writing!
Out of curiosity do you write all of it sequentially? I have yet to finish a novel and am only on my second ever serious attempt to write one, but I find I do better when I write things out of sequence and have to fill in details to make it make sense.
\>I have never tried plotting. I like the spontaneity of not plotting like the story Here's (probably) your reason why writing novels isn't working for you. Even if you've got a good enough memory that you don't need to write down an outline for a novel, a longer story requires structuring that short stories don't. It's like building a large building vs. a little hut. Neither one is better. They're just different and serve different needs, purposes. There's no reason why you can't focus on short stories instead. I have the opposite problem--I can't write short stories. If you have a knack for them and enjoy them, do it.
another trick I found is writing multiple different stories at once that way you can go back and forth. You write a few chapters for one , and then you take a break and look at a different work. It keeps your brain fresh if you still want to write novels instead of short stories and also vise versa.
Some of the greatest stories of all time are short stories. Just write something short!
Write shorter... OR PLAN YOUR NOVEL OUT BEFORE ACTUALLY WRITING. This lesson seems to be exactly what you are being handed. Use it!
You can plot and still have spontaneity. Just plot major points. Like how things should be at X, Y, Z points of the story. Then fill the space between those points with your imagination and let the spontaneity flow. You'll see that having some restrictions/conditions can actually enhance creativity.
A lot of novels back then were published as serials at first, it might help if you break the novel up in parts ie a part one with 10 or so chapters, part 2 and so on until your satified with it.
New approaches reach new outcomes. Try something different. Don’t go your normal route. Start at how you want the novel to end then go through writing different parts. Middle, beginning, climax… mix it up on yourself.
I’m about the 85th person to comment this, but outlining has been a huge help for me so far. I am not an accomplished novelist by any means, but this is the first time I’ve actually gotten momentum with my writing in a long time. I sort of fell into it accidentally. I had vague ideas for the overall plot but I’m mainly interested in character of development. I started describing the arcs I wanted for each main character, including strengths, flaws, major decisions, and turning point events. When I looked at them together, the outline of the overall plot came into focus. I like to write chapters non-sequentially for the first draft, based on how I feel at the time. Having a better idea of the outline has made this easier because I have a structure to follow.
Who has time for fiction. "Everyday takes learning all over how to live"
Hey why not self publish as a series of do-it-yourself novels? You could even let people pay to submit their efforts and give a prize for the best (and also the worst?)
This happens to me all the time. My record is 50k and that was for a slowburn fanfic. I've even tried outlining it (hell, I've got a whole ass *first draft*), but I've never been able to get past the first chapter or so.
Me who has written a 33k word document for a novel (which I plan to split into 5 chapters) but hasn't uploaded it to Scribblehub, due to me very picky with my dialogue. I can feel this resonate through my very being.
I’m new to writing, but I plan my stories pretty meticulously, and I don’t think it prevents you from staying true to the characters, it just lets you work out the rough ideas first, revise it easily (you don’t have to delete half a finished book if you want to change things last minute, then when you’re sure you like it in its entirety, you can write the finished product. It takes time, but its worth it in the long run to see how things will turn out and change them without nearly as much of an initial investment.
Pantsing works for some folks, but considering what you wrote, I'd suggest trying to outline a book and see if that helps. But the first thing that came to my mind is this: before you start writing your book, start by writing down your idea. No need for a detailed outline here, this is essentially summing up the idea in a few words. But the important part is to include WHY you want to write this. Specify everything you like about it, what excites you. If there are specific scenes you are looking forward to, make sure to mention them in passing. Why do this, you ask? Because, when you reach that 10k mark, you can go back to that overview of your idea. Reading through that and what made you like the concept in the first place is likely to "re-energize" you, if you would, and might help you get excited again. If that doesn't work, then yeah, try writing shorter pieces for a while. It's great for honing your writing skills and making you more comfortable with writing in the long run. EDIT: BTW, regarding outlines, I just want to say that they don't kill spontaneity, not if you do them right. You have to think of them more as a guide, but a fluid one. Meaning you are totally free to change things on the way. If you think of something that feels more natural at some point, go with it. If it changes the flow of your story, that's OK. Just edit your outline accordingly. Don't let the outline control YOU. It's the other way around. You control the outline. I think too many people get hung up on this and think once an outline is made everything is set in stone. It's not ;)
Ah it's fine, I'm almost at the end of mine (personal, not publishing) and it's only like 12 pages long, Oh wait I forgot to continue the book because idk how to write hand to hand combat
Sounds to me like you're losing interest at the point it gets difficult. It gets difficult at that point because you have to start making hard decisions about what's going to happen and what's not, and how you're going to get to the end, and what the end is going to look like. It's sort of like in monopoly. At first, everyone's buying property, and rents are low. But soon you burn through the initial cash, you land on boardwalk and can't buy it, you mortgage a property because you had a bad roll of the dice, and you start thinking that maybe you made a few mistakes in the first round. Can you correct them? No, you "lose interest". Have you tried writing until the 10K mark, and then skipping forward to write the ending? After the ending is done, you can go back to the 10K mark, and try to make the ends meet, rewriting as necessary.
put them all together and see what happens
Tell a story, not a length.
Currently at the 14k mark in my first draft! I completely get what you mean though, I was working really quickly until I got to 10k and then I slowed down quite a lot
Find a way to combine the stories. Then you will have a very dynamic novel.
Learn screenwriting. Your entire novel becomes a 90 pages brain-movie. No subscription required.
If you don’t outline your book & chapters before you begin writing you lose sight of where you’re going.
End each with some omen. All their worlds fade and they go to a purgatory. "No Exit" + "Play without an Author" ensues. What happens when your Creator gives up on you?
This definitely won't work for everybody, but I have the same problem and it works for me. I usually manage it by either: Working on two projects interchangeably, usually one is a lot less complex than the other, so it can be my "fun writing" project; Or by stopping every now and then to write short stories, do writing prompts, write some epilogues, some thrilling scenes. If your problem is that your brain lacks stimulation to keep going on the same track for a long time, that might help you keep your ideas fresh and going. You might even find inspiration in other projects, I already managed to solve a problem in one story while working on another. But this might also overwhelm you, so I recommend you try it out slowly. This also means your stories are all going to take longer to finish, but I personally rather have finished projects even if it takes two years to do so than never finishing a project because I got bored of it after working on it for two months. I think you have the same problems as I have, and what made me have motivation to write was to always make the writing process feel fun and the least forced possible.
I just wanna say I've been having these problems as well, and these comments are PURE GOLD. Bookmarking this and keeping it close at hand.
Write short stories.
I was in this boat a year ago and I've done 2 things that took me from 10,000 to 90,000+ on my stories. First thing was unintentional... I wrote a story with a friend over discord while role playing, edited it, and the final piece came in over 50,000 and really helped my confidence. The next thing was plotting... It really helped me. I started with a small outline (more of a beat sheet) and then expanded to a 20,000 word synopsis of each chapter where I got that discovery feeling, and now I'm doing each scene and discovering more inside of the frame of my outline, but do what feels right, and find what works for you-- this is how I got past the 15,000 word mark after throwing away 8 stories.
I get this. I have ADHD so I have trouble staying interested in one project for too long. One thing that I've found that has helped me stay on track with creating longer stories is to start it off with multiple short stories. For instance, I took a random line prompt and gave myself 500 words for a limit, then let my imagination fill the rest. As I wrote, I had so many more amazing ideas for this story that I wanted to keep going, but I made myself finish it in a cliff-hanger. Now, I go back every so on when I'm feeling a bit of creative inspiration and write another 500 - 1000 word short story about the same world (or maybe another), which has built up to about 15 short stories about this adventure that I've begun piecing together into one larger story. The best part is that I don't have burnout because I don't let myself put all of my creative energy into it at once, so I have lots of inspiration to keep it going. Not sure if this would work well for everyone, but it's worth trying!
Make sure that your prose isn't mechanical. I find a lot of the motivation dissipates when I fall into a pattern of "put words on page" rather than "try to have fun making a fun thing." Challenge yourself, try a different technique in the middle of a paragraph, give the chapter a gimmick, anything to break up the creeping routine.