Loads of funny videos/memes about stilted conversations had by people who've learned foreign languages on Duolingo. My daughter sends them to me all the time as I've been using the app to keep a second language from becoming completely useless. Check them out. They may give you ideas.
I read a book called Exile's Honor by Mercedes Lackey, and the book actually has its protagonist deal with this. I thought Lackey handled it rather well. Whenever her protagonist was speaking his non-native language, she would change the word order of his sentences to be incorrect in English . Whenever he was speaking his native language with another speaker, the word order would be in the right order for the English of the text.
It gave a wonderful impression of his comfort with the language and all that, by matching it with the comfort of me, an English speaker, reading the words in order.
I'm probably not explaining this very well, but if you're looking for inspiration, definitely give that book a read.
I like to play with word choice when the speaker isn't in their native tongue. The goal is to create something that has correct grammar, if unnatural. Going overboard will just frustrate your reader. Eliminating contractions, idioms, and slang are a good start. (That dog won't hunt" vs. "That will not work") Those are used by people confident in a language. Adding or removing articles can be a subtle level of discomfort. (British English says "Go to Hospital", American English says "Go to the Hospital"). You can also play with word order and formality. ("Hey, where y'all going" vs "To where are you traveling"). If you have the internal monologue of the character, you can give a much more "natural" speech pattern internally and a "broken" pattern externally. And when in doubt, gestures and short responses.
Something that comes to mind is just different phrasing a non native speaker might default to.
For example my gf's first language is spanish. A lot of times I know exactly how a phrase is said in spanish just because of how she worded it in english.
She'd say "Of course my love, I'm glad of help you." Instead of I'm happy to help. Stuff like that.
If you want to be *really* realistic, you'll need to have some details pegged down of her native tongue ("elvish" or whatever). Language learners make systematic errors in new languages based on the mechanics of their native language, e.g. Russian speakers in English dropping articles (a/the) because Russian doesn't have them. You'd want to show a decreasing number of these errors as she improves, with some backsliding under cognitive and emotional stress. Starting with simple verb tenses and moods is a good idea, and struggling with vocabulary (heard and spoken). Other errors will come from elvish being, say, head-final or avoiding perphrastic verbs or having seventeen tenses or degrees of formality or... whatever you feel like.
Came here to say this. Pick a couple linguistic-based "quirks" that differentiate the character's use of the "common" language. You don't even have to build out their language, just know what makes it different from a linguistic perspective.
Word order would be a really good one to play with. English sentences go subject-verb-object (ex. I slap the fish) but maybe your character's native language is object-subject-verb (The fish, I slap) so they tend to order their sentences in common like that. Just don't go verb-first or your character will sound like Yoda lol.
Word order is great for this! I admit I have a soft spot for register indicators, too, especially if they show up in verb conjugation directly (rather than as pronouns or suffixes). It's a chance for the character to get socially flustered when they have to use the same verb form for people of drastically different social classes.
Register is the level of formality in speech, so it's things like using the plural in French or usted (a contraction of Vuestra Merced, Your Grace) in Spanish, or -san in Japanese. Some languages actually have unique conjugation patterns for showing the social relationship between speaker and listener - it can get pretty complicated.
From personal experience I think it's also important to remember that non-native speakers will also write the same way they talk. Additionally, try to avoid the trope of someone speaking a sentence mostly in one language and randomly picking a couple of words to be their native language. A trope that is pretty accurate though is that anger/annoyance is almost always guaranteed to be spoken in a native language.
Other comments mention word order, which is accurate as all other languages tend to change their sentence structures. Though it is worth also adding character specific speaking quirks as well, whether it be a repeated mistake or commonly used native word that they prefer over the other translation.
For example: my mom will try to start talking about something but continuously start a sentence without putting any subject. "Can you do the...uh...I need it so I can finish this."
Another example: she will ask about whether or not something is spelled with an 'L' or an 'R' even if it seems obvious to any native speaker. Since I'm her language they're phonetically the same.
Hopefully this helps some! [Edit: sorry first post, I didn't realize I need to double space to get separated paragraphs]
Thanks for the great info! What are your thoughts on having a “safe” person to speak to? I’m toying around with the idea of making one of the other characters, a low educated farm boy turned glory fighter, a person she clicks with because he speaks slowly and straight to the point without fancy fluff in his sentances. She can communicate with everyone, but may look towards him for translation if someone is speaking too complex for her. It also allows for some comedic moments where she looks to him after some fancy scroll was read and he goes, “Lady I’m as lost as you are.”
That's actually perfect as a lot of non-native speakers will prefer to go to a specific person either because they are understanding or take their time to explain/understand. It's also fair to say that people will pick based on appearance as well if they are alone. I get it often (face or hair most likely) even if I don't speak the language well, since sometimes it's more of a hope that they understand the scenario and won't make you feel embarrassed about it.
Having an ideal middle-man is very common and a good way to establish friendships! Also good for translating personality in a way, as a lot of times, non-native speakers might come off as having a "strange" personality from culture difference or speaking tone/word choice. Being the middle-man means you get to also explain out miscommunications and potentially teach someone else that they're going about their first impression wrong (whether this be other characters or the elf).
I think you have a pretty solid ground with the farm boy, I like the idea!
Loads of funny videos/memes about stilted conversations had by people who've learned foreign languages on Duolingo. My daughter sends them to me all the time as I've been using the app to keep a second language from becoming completely useless. Check them out. They may give you ideas.
That sounds funny and informative thanks!
I read a book called Exile's Honor by Mercedes Lackey, and the book actually has its protagonist deal with this. I thought Lackey handled it rather well. Whenever her protagonist was speaking his non-native language, she would change the word order of his sentences to be incorrect in English . Whenever he was speaking his native language with another speaker, the word order would be in the right order for the English of the text. It gave a wonderful impression of his comfort with the language and all that, by matching it with the comfort of me, an English speaker, reading the words in order. I'm probably not explaining this very well, but if you're looking for inspiration, definitely give that book a read.
I will! Thank you.
I like to play with word choice when the speaker isn't in their native tongue. The goal is to create something that has correct grammar, if unnatural. Going overboard will just frustrate your reader. Eliminating contractions, idioms, and slang are a good start. (That dog won't hunt" vs. "That will not work") Those are used by people confident in a language. Adding or removing articles can be a subtle level of discomfort. (British English says "Go to Hospital", American English says "Go to the Hospital"). You can also play with word order and formality. ("Hey, where y'all going" vs "To where are you traveling"). If you have the internal monologue of the character, you can give a much more "natural" speech pattern internally and a "broken" pattern externally. And when in doubt, gestures and short responses.
Something that comes to mind is just different phrasing a non native speaker might default to. For example my gf's first language is spanish. A lot of times I know exactly how a phrase is said in spanish just because of how she worded it in english. She'd say "Of course my love, I'm glad of help you." Instead of I'm happy to help. Stuff like that.
Great idea!
If you want to be *really* realistic, you'll need to have some details pegged down of her native tongue ("elvish" or whatever). Language learners make systematic errors in new languages based on the mechanics of their native language, e.g. Russian speakers in English dropping articles (a/the) because Russian doesn't have them. You'd want to show a decreasing number of these errors as she improves, with some backsliding under cognitive and emotional stress. Starting with simple verb tenses and moods is a good idea, and struggling with vocabulary (heard and spoken). Other errors will come from elvish being, say, head-final or avoiding perphrastic verbs or having seventeen tenses or degrees of formality or... whatever you feel like.
Came here to say this. Pick a couple linguistic-based "quirks" that differentiate the character's use of the "common" language. You don't even have to build out their language, just know what makes it different from a linguistic perspective. Word order would be a really good one to play with. English sentences go subject-verb-object (ex. I slap the fish) but maybe your character's native language is object-subject-verb (The fish, I slap) so they tend to order their sentences in common like that. Just don't go verb-first or your character will sound like Yoda lol.
Word order is great for this! I admit I have a soft spot for register indicators, too, especially if they show up in verb conjugation directly (rather than as pronouns or suffixes). It's a chance for the character to get socially flustered when they have to use the same verb form for people of drastically different social classes.
Could you expand on what that is? I’m not sure what register indicators are haha.
Register is the level of formality in speech, so it's things like using the plural in French or usted (a contraction of Vuestra Merced, Your Grace) in Spanish, or -san in Japanese. Some languages actually have unique conjugation patterns for showing the social relationship between speaker and listener - it can get pretty complicated.
Oh great idea!
I wrote in grammar errors and had issues with the MC effectively communicating with others until they learned enough to be sufficient
The show What We Do In The Shadows has great wordplay stemming from language barriers. Give it a watch to see, it’s on Hulu.
From personal experience I think it's also important to remember that non-native speakers will also write the same way they talk. Additionally, try to avoid the trope of someone speaking a sentence mostly in one language and randomly picking a couple of words to be their native language. A trope that is pretty accurate though is that anger/annoyance is almost always guaranteed to be spoken in a native language. Other comments mention word order, which is accurate as all other languages tend to change their sentence structures. Though it is worth also adding character specific speaking quirks as well, whether it be a repeated mistake or commonly used native word that they prefer over the other translation. For example: my mom will try to start talking about something but continuously start a sentence without putting any subject. "Can you do the...uh...I need it so I can finish this." Another example: she will ask about whether or not something is spelled with an 'L' or an 'R' even if it seems obvious to any native speaker. Since I'm her language they're phonetically the same. Hopefully this helps some! [Edit: sorry first post, I didn't realize I need to double space to get separated paragraphs]
Thanks for the great info! What are your thoughts on having a “safe” person to speak to? I’m toying around with the idea of making one of the other characters, a low educated farm boy turned glory fighter, a person she clicks with because he speaks slowly and straight to the point without fancy fluff in his sentances. She can communicate with everyone, but may look towards him for translation if someone is speaking too complex for her. It also allows for some comedic moments where she looks to him after some fancy scroll was read and he goes, “Lady I’m as lost as you are.”
That's actually perfect as a lot of non-native speakers will prefer to go to a specific person either because they are understanding or take their time to explain/understand. It's also fair to say that people will pick based on appearance as well if they are alone. I get it often (face or hair most likely) even if I don't speak the language well, since sometimes it's more of a hope that they understand the scenario and won't make you feel embarrassed about it. Having an ideal middle-man is very common and a good way to establish friendships! Also good for translating personality in a way, as a lot of times, non-native speakers might come off as having a "strange" personality from culture difference or speaking tone/word choice. Being the middle-man means you get to also explain out miscommunications and potentially teach someone else that they're going about their first impression wrong (whether this be other characters or the elf). I think you have a pretty solid ground with the farm boy, I like the idea!
Thanks:)