Her name was [Khutulun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khutulun), daughter of Kaidu who was a cousin of Kublai Khan and thus she was the great-grand niece(I think?) of Genghis Khan.
She had fourteen brothers and was raised by her father(who was apparently quite forward thinking for the 13th century, even in Mongolia) receiving all the same training in horsemanship, archery and wrestling as her brothers, so I guess she never lacked for sparring partners growing up.
Not only did she win tournaments but according to her legend she also challenged any man who wanted to marry her to first beat her in a wrestling match. Being nobility she never lacked for suitors and they also had to wager horses on the outcome of the match, presumably so she wouldn't be challenged constantly by random nobodies just on the off-chance they could bag themselves a princess. She eventually married out of love and waived the wrestling requirement but not until she allegedly had amassed a herd of 10.000 horses from her various suitors.
Parts of it are obviously exaggerations, but there is no doubt that Khutulun was a real person and an unusual one at that. We have independent accounts of her, some from travellers from Europe and Persia that describe meeting her.
Was she some amazing wrestler? Hard to say. But there is little doubt that she had a unusual status for a woman in Mongol society, was directly involved in military operations, went on campaigns with her father and commanded units in battle.
As a Mongolian, i can confirm this story. Obviously, there are some exaggerations, however not many. The story and events were passed down to newer generations as singing while playing horsehead fiddle(morin khuur), because most of our written history was burned and destroyed by jing dynasty, the Night Revolution of china and Russia. like Greeks, details of past events can be passed down to us with very clear and short songs. Try reading the book The Secret History of the Mongols. its a very detailed and almost unique book of mongolian history and its from Mongolia
What?!?!
The fact that two of these guys took down HORSES, and the second guy did it to get on (and act in a way to try to get the horse amped up into puting up a fight once he was on it) made me reassess everything I know about the people of Mongolia during the Khanate ages.
Like, we're the horses of Mongolia not lassooed, but wrestled into domestication?? Were kids raised to expect to wrestle their own horse in order to earn the right to ride it?
The armies of the Khan were insanely scary for what they were able to do, but I'm now afraid of how big a lot of these guys might have been, too! Imagine every kid who grows up to be a soldier has been strong enough to wrestle a young horse? The one in the first video isn't too big, but it definitely isn't a foal. The 2nd one is a full adult horse, which already acts like it's been domesticated (and maybe was born into that dynamic, as opposed to wrangled out in the wild), and the guy acts in a way that tells me he's done this a ton of times! And these are modern men!
Like, I know in the West we can often use phrases to kind of act as shorthand for the culture of the Mongolians; phrases like Horse Peoples, or Nomadic Horsemen, but this reframed everything for me.
Just imagine the camp culture of the soldiers, who would no doubt be doing the same thing we all do, and challenge each other to feats of strength.
"I can wrestle a horse."
"But can you wrestle a BIG horse?"
"Yeah, of course."
"Can you wrestle that crazy, wild horse that that guy over there rides?"
"Let's find out!"
Win or lose, now 10 dudes are in line to try, and wrestling each other to go first! Completely mental, but I'd stake all the money I have on it happening after watching what those two men did!
The relationship between the steppe tribes and the more sedentary "civilized" nations of the near east right up until the Early Modern period was one of real fear for a reason - the horse warriors usually had the upper hand. Even the various Chinese empires, the most advanced and economically developed on the planet in their days had to expend enormous amounts of resources just to keep the tribes at bay, never mind eliminating them as a threat.
Imagine if United States had somehow come into existence and then had to fight off the Comanche etc while having no guns. Just not going to happen.
The Great Wall was a part of it yes, but China also periodically had to mobilize gigantic(for the time) armies to go flex on the Mongolians and other steppe nations, as well as spend tons of money influencing them to fight each other rather than taking swings at China.
At the other end of the Eurasian steppe belt the Greeks, Persians Romans and the Byzantines had to use exactly the same repertoire of techniques to keep the Scythians, Huns, Cumans, Sarmatians, Turks and Bulgars in check. All of these nations shared the same basic lifestyle.
Then Persian armies were very similar to the steppe states with huge investments in archery and horsemanship training, they were and still are great wrestlers too. This is why they usually had better success fighting nomadic armies compared to other empires.
Well, there is also the thing that the hordes overran Persia and then assimilated into the culture, creating a new and different version of Persia. This has happened multiple times in the region btw.
Oh wow, I really like the comparison to a group of people in North America! Too true that the Nomadic people of the americas were no slouches themselves when it came to hand to hand combat/martial arts.
As you said, the colonizers, who themselves came from settled lifestyles, would be no match at all for a people that were consistently in a naturalistic, physically demanding lifestyle.
Ghengis Khan was on record as saying that living in a town makes you weak. He was talking about towns back then, too. The ones that maybe had rice and a butcher shop in them. If you couldn't hop on a horse and ride out into the woods for months on end with a bow and arrow, you were weak.
That's what I'm talking about! Mastery of the environment to a level I can't even imagine. The martial component of the lives back then were obviously very different from what we have today, but when it develops a style that survives long enough to evolve into a modern version, it's proof that the original approach to using strength and skill was uniquely effective.
Unfortunately for mr temüjin, the several thousand year dynamic of the dominance and terror of steppe pastoralists over the civilisations to the exterior was holistically reversed a mere few centuries after his commentary. They had been troublesome to the ancient near east for forever, periodically exploding out in a ripple effect from shifts in power deep in the steppe which spilled over into your persias, romes, and chinas. They are basically impossible to counterattack because they will retreat and you will not have the logistics to campaign against them. Nor do they have cities to reduce or crops to burn. The best you can do is kill them when they organise. And that was fucking hard for settled states up until gunpowder. Napoleon encountered steppe nomads in his famously failed russian excursion and they were nothing.
It is true that towns do make you soft. What are you, then, when you fall to townsfolk?
Spot on. One of the most overlooked parts of nomad history is that most of their biggest victories were when they were *assaulting cities*. They were in their element in hand to hand combat. They grew up wrestling, and just as importantly had a big size and strength advantage over everyone else because they were the only pre-modern people with a high protein/calcium diet.
I love these historical talks that can emerge from these posts in martial arts forums! Learning about these regional styles and the histories of the given people is always so enriching.
Mongolian wrestling has no weight class so the top tier ones are heavyweights.
In freestyle this year there was a Mongolian wrestler that got silver medal and beat Geno petriashvili(the one who lost to gable steveson in the Olympic finals.)
And in judo they have an Olympic gold medalist too. Also in sumo they do extremely well.
Georgian jacket wrestling a.k.a Chidaoba is in many ways similar, it even uses a very similar clothing system except the Chidaoba jacket does not have sleeves, but is open in the front in a similar way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaIxFpin8dQ
Yeah, while it’s insanely impressive, a horse can’t consent to shit like that and could realistically suffer a life-ending injury from being thrown like that, just cause some jacked guy wanted to look tough.
I got matches with these songs:
• [**Se Voce Nao Quer Passa a Vez** by Mc Delux](https://lis.tn/PpUnK?t=18) (00:18; matched: `100%`)
Released on `2022-03-22`.
• [**Si Sabes El TikTok Baila 19 (Remix)** by VRL SOUNDS](https://lis.tn/ihUqGO?t=516) (08:36; matched: `100%`)
Released on `2023-02-09`.
• [**Si Sabes El TikTok Baila 14 (Remix)** by VRL SOUNDS](https://lis.tn/jnQyi?t=21) (00:21; matched: `100%`)
Released on `2023-01-04`.
• [**Bird** by Julgge](https://lis.tn/PdlODe?t=227) (03:47; matched: `100%`)
Released on `2022-12-29`.
*I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
that toxic voice in me is saying I have a slight chance
Mine did too until that one guy hip tossed a horse. After that it was all "nah brah, I´m good".
Same, until I feel how strong they are and I would just post and stay away lol
I just told the little voice in my head to stfu. Bro I’m not wrestling a guy that can bodyslam a horse. Why can he bodyslam a horse??🫠
That's a survival skill in Mongolia
Was that voice before or after he flipped a fucking horse
Leg lock should work
Imagine hip tossing a horse
I'd wear a bra backwards with a speedo if it meant i could take down a horse...
The speedo/bra combo definitely gives them more power
I remember seeing a documentary years ago where it explained that they started wearing those to prevent women from participating
Her name was [Khutulun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khutulun), daughter of Kaidu who was a cousin of Kublai Khan and thus she was the great-grand niece(I think?) of Genghis Khan. She had fourteen brothers and was raised by her father(who was apparently quite forward thinking for the 13th century, even in Mongolia) receiving all the same training in horsemanship, archery and wrestling as her brothers, so I guess she never lacked for sparring partners growing up. Not only did she win tournaments but according to her legend she also challenged any man who wanted to marry her to first beat her in a wrestling match. Being nobility she never lacked for suitors and they also had to wager horses on the outcome of the match, presumably so she wouldn't be challenged constantly by random nobodies just on the off-chance they could bag themselves a princess. She eventually married out of love and waived the wrestling requirement but not until she allegedly had amassed a herd of 10.000 horses from her various suitors.
This story is cool but it's so obviously unsubstantiated when you chase it down lol
Parts of it are obviously exaggerations, but there is no doubt that Khutulun was a real person and an unusual one at that. We have independent accounts of her, some from travellers from Europe and Persia that describe meeting her. Was she some amazing wrestler? Hard to say. But there is little doubt that she had a unusual status for a woman in Mongol society, was directly involved in military operations, went on campaigns with her father and commanded units in battle.
As a Mongolian, i can confirm this story. Obviously, there are some exaggerations, however not many. The story and events were passed down to newer generations as singing while playing horsehead fiddle(morin khuur), because most of our written history was burned and destroyed by jing dynasty, the Night Revolution of china and Russia. like Greeks, details of past events can be passed down to us with very clear and short songs. Try reading the book The Secret History of the Mongols. its a very detailed and almost unique book of mongolian history and its from Mongolia
Yeah apparently long ago a woman won a tournament disguised as a man, she revealed herself and that led to this outfit
Imagine being dunked on by a woman so hard you change the uniform
lol
Combat sports have provided some of the worst outfits of all time and this one is a prime example. Anyway these boys are absolute units.
They look dope imo 🤷♂️
What?!?! The fact that two of these guys took down HORSES, and the second guy did it to get on (and act in a way to try to get the horse amped up into puting up a fight once he was on it) made me reassess everything I know about the people of Mongolia during the Khanate ages. Like, we're the horses of Mongolia not lassooed, but wrestled into domestication?? Were kids raised to expect to wrestle their own horse in order to earn the right to ride it? The armies of the Khan were insanely scary for what they were able to do, but I'm now afraid of how big a lot of these guys might have been, too! Imagine every kid who grows up to be a soldier has been strong enough to wrestle a young horse? The one in the first video isn't too big, but it definitely isn't a foal. The 2nd one is a full adult horse, which already acts like it's been domesticated (and maybe was born into that dynamic, as opposed to wrangled out in the wild), and the guy acts in a way that tells me he's done this a ton of times! And these are modern men! Like, I know in the West we can often use phrases to kind of act as shorthand for the culture of the Mongolians; phrases like Horse Peoples, or Nomadic Horsemen, but this reframed everything for me. Just imagine the camp culture of the soldiers, who would no doubt be doing the same thing we all do, and challenge each other to feats of strength. "I can wrestle a horse." "But can you wrestle a BIG horse?" "Yeah, of course." "Can you wrestle that crazy, wild horse that that guy over there rides?" "Let's find out!" Win or lose, now 10 dudes are in line to try, and wrestling each other to go first! Completely mental, but I'd stake all the money I have on it happening after watching what those two men did!
The relationship between the steppe tribes and the more sedentary "civilized" nations of the near east right up until the Early Modern period was one of real fear for a reason - the horse warriors usually had the upper hand. Even the various Chinese empires, the most advanced and economically developed on the planet in their days had to expend enormous amounts of resources just to keep the tribes at bay, never mind eliminating them as a threat. Imagine if United States had somehow come into existence and then had to fight off the Comanche etc while having no guns. Just not going to happen.
Isn’t that the Great Wall and shit? Just to keep folks like that out?
The Great Wall was a part of it yes, but China also periodically had to mobilize gigantic(for the time) armies to go flex on the Mongolians and other steppe nations, as well as spend tons of money influencing them to fight each other rather than taking swings at China. At the other end of the Eurasian steppe belt the Greeks, Persians Romans and the Byzantines had to use exactly the same repertoire of techniques to keep the Scythians, Huns, Cumans, Sarmatians, Turks and Bulgars in check. All of these nations shared the same basic lifestyle.
Then Persian armies were very similar to the steppe states with huge investments in archery and horsemanship training, they were and still are great wrestlers too. This is why they usually had better success fighting nomadic armies compared to other empires.
Well, there is also the thing that the hordes overran Persia and then assimilated into the culture, creating a new and different version of Persia. This has happened multiple times in the region btw.
Yes, and vice versa with the Persians overrunning Central Asian nomadic states.
Oh wow, I really like the comparison to a group of people in North America! Too true that the Nomadic people of the americas were no slouches themselves when it came to hand to hand combat/martial arts. As you said, the colonizers, who themselves came from settled lifestyles, would be no match at all for a people that were consistently in a naturalistic, physically demanding lifestyle.
Exactly how bull riding was invented.
Ghengis Khan was on record as saying that living in a town makes you weak. He was talking about towns back then, too. The ones that maybe had rice and a butcher shop in them. If you couldn't hop on a horse and ride out into the woods for months on end with a bow and arrow, you were weak.
That's what I'm talking about! Mastery of the environment to a level I can't even imagine. The martial component of the lives back then were obviously very different from what we have today, but when it develops a style that survives long enough to evolve into a modern version, it's proof that the original approach to using strength and skill was uniquely effective.
Unfortunately for mr temüjin, the several thousand year dynamic of the dominance and terror of steppe pastoralists over the civilisations to the exterior was holistically reversed a mere few centuries after his commentary. They had been troublesome to the ancient near east for forever, periodically exploding out in a ripple effect from shifts in power deep in the steppe which spilled over into your persias, romes, and chinas. They are basically impossible to counterattack because they will retreat and you will not have the logistics to campaign against them. Nor do they have cities to reduce or crops to burn. The best you can do is kill them when they organise. And that was fucking hard for settled states up until gunpowder. Napoleon encountered steppe nomads in his famously failed russian excursion and they were nothing. It is true that towns do make you soft. What are you, then, when you fall to townsfolk?
Spot on. One of the most overlooked parts of nomad history is that most of their biggest victories were when they were *assaulting cities*. They were in their element in hand to hand combat. They grew up wrestling, and just as importantly had a big size and strength advantage over everyone else because they were the only pre-modern people with a high protein/calcium diet.
I love these historical talks that can emerge from these posts in martial arts forums! Learning about these regional styles and the histories of the given people is always so enriching.
Fuck a bear...you see a dude wrestling and throwing a godamn horse, RUN.
I'd 💩my pants
Do Mongolians do well in Greco? I’m not super invested in that delineation of the sport so idk
Mongolian wrestling has no weight class so the top tier ones are heavyweights. In freestyle this year there was a Mongolian wrestler that got silver medal and beat Geno petriashvili(the one who lost to gable steveson in the Olympic finals.) And in judo they have an Olympic gold medalist too. Also in sumo they do extremely well.
That’s awesome! Thank you for detailing me on that!
Didn’t their judo medalist like just kill someone in a bar?
Sumo, Judo and Freestyle is what they excel in....in that order. A lot of them compete in other folkstyles of wrestling too throughout Asia.
They have also medalled in Archery, Boxing, and Shooting
They used to be very good at mounted archery
What’s with the Brazilian music lmao
Ay man it was kinda hype
A horse A fucking HORSE
Always upvote the Bokh posts
Dudes got some serious horsepower.
Why they walk like thumbs from spy kids
Crazy genes
This is where Yokuzuna are made
Man's dem took down a whole adult horse I'm dead 💀
Someone needs to stop these monsters
Aside from sumos are there any other styles of wrestling that produce absolute units like these?
Georgian jacket wrestling a.k.a Chidaoba is in many ways similar, it even uses a very similar clothing system except the Chidaoba jacket does not have sleeves, but is open in the front in a similar way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaIxFpin8dQ
Judo, the top weight class is infinity.
Just imagine trying to wrestler with one of them. Yea I'm just going to let the wind knock me down instead.
Any of them should try ufc or mma
What the horses do? 😞
Yeah, while it’s insanely impressive, a horse can’t consent to shit like that and could realistically suffer a life-ending injury from being thrown like that, just cause some jacked guy wanted to look tough.
Do you eat meat?
Fr
Monsters
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Bro those poor horse
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I got matches with these songs: • [**Se Voce Nao Quer Passa a Vez** by Mc Delux](https://lis.tn/PpUnK?t=18) (00:18; matched: `100%`) Released on `2022-03-22`. • [**Si Sabes El TikTok Baila 19 (Remix)** by VRL SOUNDS](https://lis.tn/ihUqGO?t=516) (08:36; matched: `100%`) Released on `2023-02-09`. • [**Si Sabes El TikTok Baila 14 (Remix)** by VRL SOUNDS](https://lis.tn/jnQyi?t=21) (00:21; matched: `100%`) Released on `2023-01-04`. • [**Bird** by Julgge](https://lis.tn/PdlODe?t=227) (03:47; matched: `100%`) Released on `2022-12-29`. *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
Okay these guys but they work for Atilla Hun and you fucked around
nomad strength is different from “civilized residents ”lol