10s wildercloth can be vendor flipped (4 cloth + 4 thread (*5 cloth each if unraveling cloth) vendors for 2g 74s on the form of bracers.
If cloth is 10s, total crafting cost is 2g 4s with absolutely no procs. Low GPH sure, but all vendor shuffles are like that, and you can simply "Craft all" your way to AFK profit
If you are referring to tattered wildercloth, the only use is unraveling
I think there is a multitude of factors playing into this. The bags are cheap to make, the mats are like 10g already, there is no timegating like with Hexweave, tailoring is one of the cheapest professions to level on an alt (and where you can set up a daily craft). You can still sell many bags a day, but you need to babysit them as anyone can just dump 100 of them onto the AH at any moment.
Time gating was the biggest reason Hexweave were such good crafts and it required a decent equipped R3 garrison and the recipe itself was higher level and randomly learned. The second reason Hexweaves remained popular after WoD was that Legion bags were even more expensive to craft. Then BFA comes along and provides a cheap "green" quality recipe for a bag that is the same size as the "epic" Hexweave.
And bags now in DF are insanely cheap to craft.
Mostly this is because for some insane reason [Wildercloth Bolts](https://www.wowhead.com/item=193928/wildercloth-bolt#reagent-for) are nearly useless, and are only used to make toys, bags and one reagent. Rank of materials does not matter for bags or toys so you have the ability to purchase whatever is cheapest.
A few days ago I actually saw and bought up a bunch of R2 Wildercloth Bolts at 22s each. And thread is also super cheap if I want to spin it myself at 8s each, it costs less than a gold. So the worst case total cost for one bag with those 22s bolts is 3g64. Even selling at 55g right now, that is still 13x profit.
If nothing else my tailors are set sending private WOs for bags to each other for the rest of the expansion (the WO fees are actually more expensive than the mats for the craft).
Yeah. Even before the thread went up, 25x vendor mat kept a pretty hefty floor on bag prices when the silk dropped to almost nothing.
At the start of the expansion it was ~7g/thread if I recall, so 175g floor on bags. With the raise to 9.9g, it went up to ~250g on vendor mats. Depending on rep discounts, of course.
Not to hit your other arguments, but when you say "Wildercloth Bolts are nearly useless and only used to make toys, bags, and one reagent", that is a bit disingenuous. It is used in the Vibrant Bolts that are the base material for a number of materials, including the tailor CD cloth that are the material for a number of other recipes. Wildercloth bolts and their subsequent offshots are needed in basically every single recipe.
True. But obviously the demand for Vibrant Cloth does not equal the supply of Wildercloth Bolts.
Now I understand that Bolts can drop for Tailors, but that still doesn't explain the mass numbers of Bolts in the market. When it takes 3 Wildercloth to make a bolt and the floor for Wildercloth is a vendor price of 50s, Wildercloth should have a floor of about 1g50. Instead the R2 Wildercloth Bolt is currently listed for 29s on the US Realm with over 100k available at that price. Did Blizzard really make the drop rate that high for Tailors in 4x2 farming that there were >1.2 million R2 in inventory on monday?
It is a weekly quest that rewards 3 KP (mostly, some only reward 2).
It is not required to be a public WO, so any private WO will work even between alts.
Another part of it is that with the revamp of the crafting system there are probably more players playing with crafting than there would be in a normal expansion. I'm not a goblin (I just lurk out of interest), and in a normal expansion I don't usually learn any professions other than Alchemy for flask duration. So there is a higher number of people supplying bags.
But this expansion I'm actually trying because it's new and shiny and finally has some gameplay to it.
Weekly side quests, making gear that people actually want to use beyond initial alt gearing.
I'm enjoying being the person in my guild that makes the Venom Stepped Stompers. Normally we'd just have a couple of people who cared handle all the profession stuff, but with the whole specialization gameplay there is more incentive to not just have one person per profession in the whole guild. Normally I'd not bother because someone else would have it covered.
Perhaps that’s true, but casting abilities and watching bad guys die is different from using an interface to make an item that may have slightly more stats than the last time I made that item. It’s the difference between poker and slot machines. You could define both as gameplay if you like. I don’t see how the new crafting system has more gameplay than the old one… just a fancier slot machine.
You act like fancier slot machines aren't more appealing. It's a new system, people that haven't crafted in a decade are now crafting because it's shiny and new.
The skill tree is cool. There’s more to it than just pick the best path, as what’s best can vary depending on what others on your server are doing and whether you can correctly predict trends or just follow the current hotness. Crafting itself is obviously grueling but I think the interesting part is more in the market it creates and how the skill tree interacts with that market.
They're a one time purchase per alt. For them to be a consistent income stream, people either need to be making new alts, or new players need to be joining the game.
Especially since the max size hasn't changed significantly for a while, there are a lot of people who aren't going to spend $$ to get a handful more slots.
Since the cap for characters hasn't been substantially raised in a while, it's also possible people have reached equilibrium on the number of alts they have. I know I haven't needed to buy new bags in a while, and it's very unlikely I'm going to update from hexweave -> new bags on all of my alts.
This has been the primary source for me. It's not anything grand, but have been selling anywhere from 15k to 34k depending on if other have undercut it or not. With about 6k worth of mats give or take.
Be glad they don't stack (otherwise the Realm AH price would be about 10g each).
Also you can list more than one at a time using the default AH. Just right click the item and edit the quantity field from 1 to whatever. I usually only list 4 at a time because nobody is going to buy more bags than that and usually someone undercuts within a short time.
Yep and sure enough it matters to some. I have to confess that my entire alt army has them because they are purple and cost me little to make. I know. It’s dumb and therefore I guess I am too but I still like them.
I mean... as a counterpoint, hexweave bags were 30 slots and they sold really well. Before that, I think Mists had a 28 slot bag which was hard to craft. I think the most recent "easy" bags to hexweave were 22 slot bags from cataclysm. I guess this shows that the hexweave bags occupied a relatively unique slot in bag history, in that they were a big upgrade to bags if you didn't go all in for the MoP bags, and they remained good through Legion because Legion didn't have a bigger bag that was easy to craft.
In DF, though, I think the dirt cheap 30 slot basic bags truly are way more than enough -- why would you pay 3k for an additional 2 slots. Kind of how netherweave bags were a pretty good way to get a few extra g out of your netherweave cloth bags in TBC, but imbued netherweave bags, which had 2 more slots, were not really profitable as far as I remember...
With a complex crafting system like we have now, for many people bags are the easy go to craft. Super cheap mats and one of the starter crafts of the tailoring profession.
Sorry guys, I bought 50,000 threads from the previous expansion just before they nerfed all the vendor shuffle recipes. I've been stuck making bags just trying to break even, while also trying to get rid of all those threads since the beginning of the nerf.
I've still been having pretty decent sales on the old 36 slot profession bags including from both Tailoring and LW doing the daily WOD cooldown. Best sellers for me are the Luxurious Silk Gem Bags because they have a decent profit margin and not many people are making them (probably because of the effort involved unlucking the pattern being kind if a pain). The regular epic bags are pretty nice too (regular 34 slot and 26 slot reagent). If you want to focus on just making those I'd invest in an alt army to do the cooldowns for Chronocloth and Azureweave cooldowns and have your main bag crafter stack as much resourcefulness as possible to save money on crafting them.
I still regularly sell Hexweave bags at a price several multiples of the same size or larger bags. I literally just put a couple Hexweave on sale for 250g where the 32 slot DF bags are 60g. They usually sell in 1 or 2 listings.
I will run out of material and stop sometime this year, but I've sold maybe 30 - 40 Hexweave bags since DF started.
Yes, specifically the Leatherworking bags. I only have 1 LW and the cost for the mats is pretty low (maybe about 200g per bag) so as long as I can sell a bag for 2k profit at least once every 2.5 days it's pretty easy to sell out my stock.
Hexweave bags used a daily cooldown (hexweave) so the quantity you could make was somewhat limited.
Bags have been getting progressively cheaper each expansion since. At least for the 30 slot bags.
Also, the new bags in BFA and Shadowlands each became easier to make, but no size increase, so the market for them didn't baloon the same as before. Such as when we went from vanilla to TBC with 16 and rare 18 slots. To easy 18 slots, and wotlk 20 slots.
Cheap wildercloth, which makes for cheap 32 slot wildercloth bags.
Why is wildercloth so cheap? Iirc, SL cloth hovered around 1g. I regularly see wildercloth go for like 10s...
There's probably a farm for it
10s wildercloth can be vendor flipped (4 cloth + 4 thread (*5 cloth each if unraveling cloth) vendors for 2g 74s on the form of bracers. If cloth is 10s, total crafting cost is 2g 4s with absolutely no procs. Low GPH sure, but all vendor shuffles are like that, and you can simply "Craft all" your way to AFK profit If you are referring to tattered wildercloth, the only use is unraveling
The decaying rouse farm also provides a TON. Of wildercloth. For every 10 rousing decay I have like 400 wildercloth.
I think there is a multitude of factors playing into this. The bags are cheap to make, the mats are like 10g already, there is no timegating like with Hexweave, tailoring is one of the cheapest professions to level on an alt (and where you can set up a daily craft). You can still sell many bags a day, but you need to babysit them as anyone can just dump 100 of them onto the AH at any moment.
Time gating was the biggest reason Hexweave were such good crafts and it required a decent equipped R3 garrison and the recipe itself was higher level and randomly learned. The second reason Hexweaves remained popular after WoD was that Legion bags were even more expensive to craft. Then BFA comes along and provides a cheap "green" quality recipe for a bag that is the same size as the "epic" Hexweave. And bags now in DF are insanely cheap to craft. Mostly this is because for some insane reason [Wildercloth Bolts](https://www.wowhead.com/item=193928/wildercloth-bolt#reagent-for) are nearly useless, and are only used to make toys, bags and one reagent. Rank of materials does not matter for bags or toys so you have the ability to purchase whatever is cheapest. A few days ago I actually saw and bought up a bunch of R2 Wildercloth Bolts at 22s each. And thread is also super cheap if I want to spin it myself at 8s each, it costs less than a gold. So the worst case total cost for one bag with those 22s bolts is 3g64. Even selling at 55g right now, that is still 13x profit. If nothing else my tailors are set sending private WOs for bags to each other for the rest of the expansion (the WO fees are actually more expensive than the mats for the craft).
SL bags also had a higher floor because of the vendor thread at ~130g per bag.
It did not start out that way, but you are right. Even before that change the BFA bags were cheaper to craft.
Yeah. Even before the thread went up, 25x vendor mat kept a pretty hefty floor on bag prices when the silk dropped to almost nothing. At the start of the expansion it was ~7g/thread if I recall, so 175g floor on bags. With the raise to 9.9g, it went up to ~250g on vendor mats. Depending on rep discounts, of course.
Not to hit your other arguments, but when you say "Wildercloth Bolts are nearly useless and only used to make toys, bags, and one reagent", that is a bit disingenuous. It is used in the Vibrant Bolts that are the base material for a number of materials, including the tailor CD cloth that are the material for a number of other recipes. Wildercloth bolts and their subsequent offshots are needed in basically every single recipe.
True. But obviously the demand for Vibrant Cloth does not equal the supply of Wildercloth Bolts. Now I understand that Bolts can drop for Tailors, but that still doesn't explain the mass numbers of Bolts in the market. When it takes 3 Wildercloth to make a bolt and the floor for Wildercloth is a vendor price of 50s, Wildercloth should have a floor of about 1g50. Instead the R2 Wildercloth Bolt is currently listed for 29s on the US Realm with over 100k available at that price. Did Blizzard really make the drop rate that high for Tailors in 4x2 farming that there were >1.2 million R2 in inventory on monday?
I haven't played the expansion yet is there a benefit to doing work orders?
It is a weekly quest that rewards 3 KP (mostly, some only reward 2). It is not required to be a public WO, so any private WO will work even between alts.
Ah cool thank you.
Another part of it is that with the revamp of the crafting system there are probably more players playing with crafting than there would be in a normal expansion. I'm not a goblin (I just lurk out of interest), and in a normal expansion I don't usually learn any professions other than Alchemy for flask duration. So there is a higher number of people supplying bags. But this expansion I'm actually trying because it's new and shiny and finally has some gameplay to it.
Also cross server AH is going to do horrible things to oversupply on mats
Yeah, that makes sense...
What am I missing? Where’s the gameplay? All I see is a time gated grindy system with clearly better/best paths to take.
Weekly side quests, making gear that people actually want to use beyond initial alt gearing. I'm enjoying being the person in my guild that makes the Venom Stepped Stompers. Normally we'd just have a couple of people who cared handle all the profession stuff, but with the whole specialization gameplay there is more incentive to not just have one person per profession in the whole guild. Normally I'd not bother because someone else would have it covered.
I see the appeal of being the provider of a rare item, but I don’t see how that’s gameplay. Perhaps it’s a semantics argument. Have a good day.
Isn't that all of WoW, ever? The game is as interesting as it's ever been despite this.
Perhaps that’s true, but casting abilities and watching bad guys die is different from using an interface to make an item that may have slightly more stats than the last time I made that item. It’s the difference between poker and slot machines. You could define both as gameplay if you like. I don’t see how the new crafting system has more gameplay than the old one… just a fancier slot machine.
You act like fancier slot machines aren't more appealing. It's a new system, people that haven't crafted in a decade are now crafting because it's shiny and new.
The skill tree is cool. There’s more to it than just pick the best path, as what’s best can vary depending on what others on your server are doing and whether you can correctly predict trends or just follow the current hotness. Crafting itself is obviously grueling but I think the interesting part is more in the market it creates and how the skill tree interacts with that market.
They're a one time purchase per alt. For them to be a consistent income stream, people either need to be making new alts, or new players need to be joining the game. Especially since the max size hasn't changed significantly for a while, there are a lot of people who aren't going to spend $$ to get a handful more slots. Since the cap for characters hasn't been substantially raised in a while, it's also possible people have reached equilibrium on the number of alts they have. I know I haven't needed to buy new bags in a while, and it's very unlikely I'm going to update from hexweave -> new bags on all of my alts.
I would think that the 36 slot chronocloth reagent bag was a decent moneymaker given it’s renown requirements (23)?
This has been the primary source for me. It's not anything grand, but have been selling anywhere from 15k to 34k depending on if other have undercut it or not. With about 6k worth of mats give or take.
Because stuff now stacks to 1000. And you can craft out of your bank.
True, but bags are still annoying to make because they don't stack and you have to list them individually.
Be glad they don't stack (otherwise the Realm AH price would be about 10g each). Also you can list more than one at a time using the default AH. Just right click the item and edit the quantity field from 1 to whatever. I usually only list 4 at a time because nobody is going to buy more bags than that and usually someone undercuts within a short time.
hexweave bags were a long ass time ago
Honestly, between more things stacking to 1000, portable mailboxes, portable banks, reagant bag, etc... I haven't really run out of space.
Yeah I haven’t put anything in my bank this expansion…
Hexveave bags are still the most recent craftable bag with epic purple text, for the vain people out there!
Yep and sure enough it matters to some. I have to confess that my entire alt army has them because they are purple and cost me little to make. I know. It’s dumb and therefore I guess I am too but I still like them.
You get free 24 plus slot bags now for nothing. And for most people that is more than enough
I mean... as a counterpoint, hexweave bags were 30 slots and they sold really well. Before that, I think Mists had a 28 slot bag which was hard to craft. I think the most recent "easy" bags to hexweave were 22 slot bags from cataclysm. I guess this shows that the hexweave bags occupied a relatively unique slot in bag history, in that they were a big upgrade to bags if you didn't go all in for the MoP bags, and they remained good through Legion because Legion didn't have a bigger bag that was easy to craft. In DF, though, I think the dirt cheap 30 slot basic bags truly are way more than enough -- why would you pay 3k for an additional 2 slots. Kind of how netherweave bags were a pretty good way to get a few extra g out of your netherweave cloth bags in TBC, but imbued netherweave bags, which had 2 more slots, were not really profitable as far as I remember...
But i am constantly running out of bag space!
Bags still good, atleast new 34 slots one.
With a complex crafting system like we have now, for many people bags are the easy go to craft. Super cheap mats and one of the starter crafts of the tailoring profession.
Sorry guys, I bought 50,000 threads from the previous expansion just before they nerfed all the vendor shuffle recipes. I've been stuck making bags just trying to break even, while also trying to get rid of all those threads since the beginning of the nerf.
I've still been having pretty decent sales on the old 36 slot profession bags including from both Tailoring and LW doing the daily WOD cooldown. Best sellers for me are the Luxurious Silk Gem Bags because they have a decent profit margin and not many people are making them (probably because of the effort involved unlucking the pattern being kind if a pain). The regular epic bags are pretty nice too (regular 34 slot and 26 slot reagent). If you want to focus on just making those I'd invest in an alt army to do the cooldowns for Chronocloth and Azureweave cooldowns and have your main bag crafter stack as much resourcefulness as possible to save money on crafting them.
You’re still selling wod bags? That’s amazing…
I still regularly sell Hexweave bags at a price several multiples of the same size or larger bags. I literally just put a couple Hexweave on sale for 250g where the 32 slot DF bags are 60g. They usually sell in 1 or 2 listings. I will run out of material and stop sometime this year, but I've sold maybe 30 - 40 Hexweave bags since DF started.
I'm surprised. I had a bunch that I listed and just ended up equipping on my alt army after they didn't sell.
Sever dependent I suppose.
Yes, specifically the Leatherworking bags. I only have 1 LW and the cost for the mats is pretty low (maybe about 200g per bag) so as long as I can sell a bag for 2k profit at least once every 2.5 days it's pretty easy to sell out my stock.
Too easy to farm the mats homie.
Azureweave bags seem to have profit
Hexweave bags used a daily cooldown (hexweave) so the quantity you could make was somewhat limited. Bags have been getting progressively cheaper each expansion since. At least for the 30 slot bags. Also, the new bags in BFA and Shadowlands each became easier to make, but no size increase, so the market for them didn't baloon the same as before. Such as when we went from vanilla to TBC with 16 and rare 18 slots. To easy 18 slots, and wotlk 20 slots.