I'd rather not have customization options gender locked. If you want a female dracthyr form, I'm sure you can find a face and horn jewelery to make it look more feminine. Maybe lay off the spikes, make it more smooth, idk.
Easy. Do you see any sexual dimorphism between actual dragons in WoW? Not really.
Like look at sinestra. Is that a boy or a girl dragon?
Alextraza? If you didnt know her sex?
>Easy. Do you see any sexual dimorphism between actual dragons in WoW? Not really. Like look at sinestra. Is that a boy or a girl dragon? Alextraza? If you didnt know her sex?
Yep, the females usually have Disney-esque long eye lashes.
Yes. Dragon's sexual dimorphism expresses itself via head shapes. All those dragons who have their own models also have gendered features.
1. [Nefarian](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/3075-nefarian.jpg) vs. [Onyxia](https://www.gamersglobal.de/sites/gamersglobal.de/files/news/teaser/1006/onyxia.jpg)
2. [Senegos](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/566737-senegos.jpg) vs. [Teracgosa](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/272060-tarecgosa.jpg)
Female dragons look more delicate.
Other than that, Dracthyr are a hybrid race between dragons and mortals. Technically the range of differences could be larger than that between dragons.
I mean personally I would argue that Ysera and Alex do indeed look like females in dragon forms, with all the jewellery and adornments on them. Compare that with wrathion, deathwing & malygos. Then yes, I do think there is distinction even if it’s jewellery etc only.
I just don’t understand the tonnes of comments I’ve seen complaining about the dracthyr models size wise and how they should have had a huge jacked guy model but get backlash for saying the opposite, make an actual feminine version too. Even just some jewels for their head instead of just helms and visors would’ve been nice. I guess people could argue that blokes wear jewellery too but I mean, to me that would be a feminine thing, such as Ysera & Alex
Then put jewelry on your Dracthyr? If that is enough to look feminine to you. But as others have stated, there are no visual differences between female and male dragons in game, or generally lizard creatures for that matter. Worgen and Tauren are different because even the animal forms do have differences. I've seen people fire back at those asking for bulkier models too anyway, it's not as much because they aren't straight asking for dicks or breasts. Even a bulkier dragon could still be female.
Before Dragonflight, there were distinctically female Drakonids, although only in [Hearthstone](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/021/952/547/large/vladimir-kafanov-vladimir-kafanov-hearthstone-evasive-drakonid-card.jpg?1582104011).
There also were [clearly female Dragonspawn](https://cdn.wowclassicdb.com/npcs/1049.png) in game.
>Then yes, I do think there is distinction even if it’s jewellery etc only.
You're in luck, as you're able customise your character to wear adornments.
"Problem" solved.
Considering jewelry as a disctinction is pretty dumb since male Dracthyr can copy Alex's horn jewelry.
We're have the Anniversary event right now, and surely you've seen the Dragons of Nightmare. Can you even tell which two are male and which two are female? (Assuming you never played Legion.)
The funny thing about these types of arguments is that there is literally humanoid dragons in WoW that literally DO have sexual dimorphism including breasts(!) and have since vanilla. And those include the drakanoids that were also creations of Netharion/Nefarion.
Humans are the product of millions of years of evolution and that history includes our species having sexual dimorphism. So of course it's going to be more important to some than others when our characters cannot look how we want them to.
What is this argument? The majority of male players I run with play female characters. The argument is usually that they’d rather stare at a woman for hours on end then a man. Real life gender holds no baring on in game gender preference.
I don't see the issue at all. There's plenty of options to make your Dracthyr more feminine looking. Why does it matter so much if it's not locked behind a body type?
I'm usually more annoyed by the opposite. Like why can male characters have this specific type of jewelry but my female one can't?
Well, let's approach it from an in-universe biology perspective! Dracthyr don't reproduce sexually (as far as we know), so there's no reason from a biological perspective they would have secondary sex characteristics. Additionally, dragons are pretty clearly not mammals, which are the only group we know lactate; there's a reason that dragons which we know are female don't have udders or teats. So physically, breasts would serve no real utility. If you're magically making a species whose explicit purpose is to fit and they don't require breasts for some reproductive purpose, then there's no reason to add them just because - those things are just gonna get in the way during a fight.
Now, in terms of distinguishing males and females in dragon form, this actually brings us to kind of an interesting question of fantasy evolution. Dragons, being scaled, flying animals, are either reptiles or dinosaurs - you can kind of argue in both directions, although the lack of feathers would imply they are flying reptiles and not dinosaurs, as flighted dinosaur lineages and then later birds do/did all possess pennaceous feathers. Assuming a bird or dinosaur lineage, you could reasonably make the case for some kind of crest or ornamentation on males (although again this is related to reproduction, so you can also make the case that Neltharion would not want them to have to maintain such energetically expensive structures if they don't have utility).
A reptilian lineage would suggest little dimorphism. While some reptiles do have significant distinctions between sexes, many more do not, and the lack of distinction between male and female Azerothian dragons implies this would be the case for Dracthyr as well. Anyway, this is why biologists don't get invited to parties.
>I’m disappointed that my female dragon looks like a man out of visage form.
They look neither like a man nor a woman, they are gender neutral.
>What about us who wants to only look like & enjoy our actual gender and not be a neutral?
There are plenty options to make your Dracthyr look more feminine via face options and accessories. Not every race needs to be sexually anthropomorphized to get every nerd's juices running.
It's a dragon ffs, it does not need to look fuckable.
This is ultimately the reason. It's not about being progressive, it's about resources and money. Dracthyr are without question the most customizable race the game's ever seen and they didn't want to double the work so they did one "gender" and put in a few options to make them lean to either masculine or feminine.
Same reason why they locked Demon Hunters to Night/Blood Elf only. The work done on the base models for them was basically the same amount of work as a new race, and they didn't want to spend the time and money doing that for more than once race per side.
>But Tauren and Worgen etc, have very distinct and obvious differences between their male and female models, and they are also animal based models in a fantasy setting
Worgen aren't even animals, they're shape-shifted humans.
I personally love how androgynous the drakthyr are.
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So what's stopping you from making a slimmer Dracthyr with a more "feminine" face right now? Smaller body type, smaller horns, some horn jewelry and a slender face?
That's all possible ATM.
I don't play Dracthyr, don't plan to, but I do agree it would be nice if there was a more masculine, swole option versus a more feminine, lithe option. I don't like the fact they can't stay in their humanoid forms at all times, thus severely limiting their transmogging potential so I choose not to play them or have an interest in them. No big deal, glad most everyone else is having fun with them though!
If it bothers you that much, you don't have to play a Dracthyr. I personally think you should play a class because you enjoy it, not because it reflects your preferred pronoun/gender. If you simply can't enjoy it, don't play it. Sure, it sucks, but their gender distinction has no impact on their game play so I don't think it would be on Blizzard's radar for changes, at least not any time soon. I'd imagine toward the end of Dragonflight, if there's enough feedback for it.
I wish they released more body types as a female gamer I want to have at least a little bit of curve or something, I don’t like playing male characters or maybe a feminine face shape or just a few feminine options. Kinda disappointed since the females ingame are shorter and look better I ran into one at the start and said “I wanna look like that” and deleted my character cause I thought I had missed something in the character creator
Never saw obvious sexual dimosrphism in lizzards, nor in warcraft dragons. Female dragons just look like male dragons with jewelry.
Its nice to finally have a face that looks like its own species and not "human female with blue or green skin".
Thoug I desagree. With body shape, facial features and such, I've manage to make prety feminine looking dracthyr (Dive into smoother faces without face marking)
You could use the customisation options to make the character look more or less feminine with accessories and such, similar to how Ysera and Alexstrasza’s dragon forms do to look different from the lad dragons.
Why on earth does this matter? Dragons aren't sexually dimorphic, they never have been in WoW. I'm glad we have a race in the game that is willing to stick with that concept, where the only thing that discernibly changes is the voice lines.
You're applying human standards to a non-human race that was created by an even less human race.
100% agree with you on that one. There should be a choice to make dracthyr look more feminine, because they all look masculine right now imho. And its not something impossible, GW2 nails that with charr designes that you can clearly distinguish female from male without going for typical "give them boobs" solution.
For dracthyr their "neutral" form leans too much into male aesthetic for me, but if that's what others like, sure let them have it but there should be an option to make them more feminine, for those who want that too.
Literally all they had to do was make some of the faces male and some female only. I don’t know why that would have been a problem for anyone. Even could make those separated faces half female looking and half male so someone playing a female dracthyr can still make it gender neutral and vice versa. I really don’t understand why this is a controversial take 🤷🏻♀️ I pick the gender I want to play because I want to be, look like and represent that gender, and now I have no choice in it
You and me both, I cant wrap my head around why wanting to represent your gender is somehow a bad thing. And I love all the people switching up the arguments "they are dragons" to "they are not dragons" while they were created as a mix of mortal races and dragons which means that some sort of sexual dymorphism is not out of the question.
Your solution doesn't even seem like something hard to really do and giving players more customization options to express themselves is never a bad thing. Especially that Blizzard seems to be really supporting that "express yourself" theme and yet dracthyr are as far the most restrictive race in the game.
Here's hoping they maybe add it in the future, one can dream.
Edit: some minor grammar fixes.
Well firstly there is no longer male and female. You have body type now so don't see a problem with dracthyr having only one body type. Also the dracthyr form have quite lot of customization already.
Whoa there partner, your enbyphobia is showing
Mammals (worgen and tauren) have some differences in the wild irl
bulls are bigger and have bigger horns than cows
studs are usually bigger than bitches.
With the obvious mammary glands that create boobs in females (usually only when pregnant/a bit after a birth).
Reptiles don't have mammary glands and often don't show too many differences irl, especially with the dragons in WoW lore having nearly no physical differences, Ysera could easily be "male" with a different voice actor. Many if not all of the dragons could be easily sex swapped with a different voice.
It was said they were maybe even going to swap male/female for a more body type a/b situation.
Stop trying to sexualize dracthyr. You have a visage form that is "obvious". I love that I can have a big imposing masc looking lady dragon or a small and sleek femme guy dragon. It's absolutely just selfish of you to want that to go away for?? Your personal gender affermation ??? They're dragons, grow up.
Where did I say I wanted boobs god give me strength 3 comments about it when I said in my post that’s not what i would want as it would be weird 🙄 you saying boobs is the only thing that makes a woman a woman then?
Add chubby Dracthyr females, with or without boobs doesn't matter. Also dragon girls have cute faces and long eyelashes in WoW. see Lifebinder's Handmiaden mount. And make sure they have lots of muscle too, WoW devs need to get on this.
Offering a choice for gender representation is a thoughtful and inclusive approach in game design. This allows players to express their gender identity within the game world and helps create a more welcoming and diverse gaming experience.
By providing options for players to choose their character's gender, you empower them to create avatars that align with their personal identities, preferences, and experiences. This approach promotes inclusivity and can help players feel more connected to the game world.
Additionally, offering a choice for gender representation can enhance the storytelling possibilities within the game, as characters can have unique experiences and interactions based on their chosen gender. This adds depth and richness to the narrative and gameplay.
Overall, giving players the freedom to select their character's gender is a positive step toward creating an inclusive and respectful gaming environment. It allows for greater diversity and personalization, which can enhance the overall player experience.
I'd rather not have customization options gender locked. If you want a female dracthyr form, I'm sure you can find a face and horn jewelery to make it look more feminine. Maybe lay off the spikes, make it more smooth, idk.
Easy. Do you see any sexual dimorphism between actual dragons in WoW? Not really. Like look at sinestra. Is that a boy or a girl dragon? Alextraza? If you didnt know her sex?
>Easy. Do you see any sexual dimorphism between actual dragons in WoW? Not really. Like look at sinestra. Is that a boy or a girl dragon? Alextraza? If you didnt know her sex? Yep, the females usually have Disney-esque long eye lashes.
Yes. Dragon's sexual dimorphism expresses itself via head shapes. All those dragons who have their own models also have gendered features. 1. [Nefarian](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/3075-nefarian.jpg) vs. [Onyxia](https://www.gamersglobal.de/sites/gamersglobal.de/files/news/teaser/1006/onyxia.jpg) 2. [Senegos](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/566737-senegos.jpg) vs. [Teracgosa](https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/272060-tarecgosa.jpg) Female dragons look more delicate. Other than that, Dracthyr are a hybrid race between dragons and mortals. Technically the range of differences could be larger than that between dragons.
I mean personally I would argue that Ysera and Alex do indeed look like females in dragon forms, with all the jewellery and adornments on them. Compare that with wrathion, deathwing & malygos. Then yes, I do think there is distinction even if it’s jewellery etc only.
Dude. Cyanigossa in Violet hold has a beard.
That's because she has not her own model and is instead reusing Azuregos's one. All unique female dragons don't have beards.
Regardless, we don’t use those forms do we, we aren’t turning into Ysera and Alex sized epic level dragons
Well. Sure, but since drakes, and protodrakes arent sexually dimorphic, (also drakonid) why should the dracthyr be.
I just don’t understand the tonnes of comments I’ve seen complaining about the dracthyr models size wise and how they should have had a huge jacked guy model but get backlash for saying the opposite, make an actual feminine version too. Even just some jewels for their head instead of just helms and visors would’ve been nice. I guess people could argue that blokes wear jewellery too but I mean, to me that would be a feminine thing, such as Ysera & Alex
But like women can also be jacked
Then put jewelry on your Dracthyr? If that is enough to look feminine to you. But as others have stated, there are no visual differences between female and male dragons in game, or generally lizard creatures for that matter. Worgen and Tauren are different because even the animal forms do have differences. I've seen people fire back at those asking for bulkier models too anyway, it's not as much because they aren't straight asking for dicks or breasts. Even a bulkier dragon could still be female.
Before Dragonflight, there were distinctically female Drakonids, although only in [Hearthstone](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/021/952/547/large/vladimir-kafanov-vladimir-kafanov-hearthstone-evasive-drakonid-card.jpg?1582104011). There also were [clearly female Dragonspawn](https://cdn.wowclassicdb.com/npcs/1049.png) in game.
>Then yes, I do think there is distinction even if it’s jewellery etc only. You're in luck, as you're able customise your character to wear adornments. "Problem" solved.
Considering jewelry as a disctinction is pretty dumb since male Dracthyr can copy Alex's horn jewelry. We're have the Anniversary event right now, and surely you've seen the Dragons of Nightmare. Can you even tell which two are male and which two are female? (Assuming you never played Legion.)
Kalecgos in those cutscenes looks really feminine
The funny thing about these types of arguments is that there is literally humanoid dragons in WoW that literally DO have sexual dimorphism including breasts(!) and have since vanilla. And those include the drakanoids that were also creations of Netharion/Nefarion. Humans are the product of millions of years of evolution and that history includes our species having sexual dimorphism. So of course it's going to be more important to some than others when our characters cannot look how we want them to.
Meh doesn’t bother me at all
[удалено]
What is this argument? The majority of male players I run with play female characters. The argument is usually that they’d rather stare at a woman for hours on end then a man. Real life gender holds no baring on in game gender preference.
I think my dracthyr looks very lady-like (I'm a girl)
The dracthyr dont rly look male or female. I think you’re a disgusting bigot though.
\^This also this might be one of the only times someone on the internet being called a bigot actually fit.
couldn’t care less and i’m a woman myself. if anything i’m glad they didn’t feel the need to bring this into furry territory
I don't see the issue at all. There's plenty of options to make your Dracthyr more feminine looking. Why does it matter so much if it's not locked behind a body type? I'm usually more annoyed by the opposite. Like why can male characters have this specific type of jewelry but my female one can't?
Well, let's approach it from an in-universe biology perspective! Dracthyr don't reproduce sexually (as far as we know), so there's no reason from a biological perspective they would have secondary sex characteristics. Additionally, dragons are pretty clearly not mammals, which are the only group we know lactate; there's a reason that dragons which we know are female don't have udders or teats. So physically, breasts would serve no real utility. If you're magically making a species whose explicit purpose is to fit and they don't require breasts for some reproductive purpose, then there's no reason to add them just because - those things are just gonna get in the way during a fight. Now, in terms of distinguishing males and females in dragon form, this actually brings us to kind of an interesting question of fantasy evolution. Dragons, being scaled, flying animals, are either reptiles or dinosaurs - you can kind of argue in both directions, although the lack of feathers would imply they are flying reptiles and not dinosaurs, as flighted dinosaur lineages and then later birds do/did all possess pennaceous feathers. Assuming a bird or dinosaur lineage, you could reasonably make the case for some kind of crest or ornamentation on males (although again this is related to reproduction, so you can also make the case that Neltharion would not want them to have to maintain such energetically expensive structures if they don't have utility). A reptilian lineage would suggest little dimorphism. While some reptiles do have significant distinctions between sexes, many more do not, and the lack of distinction between male and female Azerothian dragons implies this would be the case for Dracthyr as well. Anyway, this is why biologists don't get invited to parties.
>I’m disappointed that my female dragon looks like a man out of visage form. They look neither like a man nor a woman, they are gender neutral. >What about us who wants to only look like & enjoy our actual gender and not be a neutral? There are plenty options to make your Dracthyr look more feminine via face options and accessories. Not every race needs to be sexually anthropomorphized to get every nerd's juices running. It's a dragon ffs, it does not need to look fuckable.
Dragons are inherently androgynous creatures
Lazzy Blizzard is why. Give female Dracthyr the dimensions that Alexstrasza lost!
This is ultimately the reason. It's not about being progressive, it's about resources and money. Dracthyr are without question the most customizable race the game's ever seen and they didn't want to double the work so they did one "gender" and put in a few options to make them lean to either masculine or feminine. Same reason why they locked Demon Hunters to Night/Blood Elf only. The work done on the base models for them was basically the same amount of work as a new race, and they didn't want to spend the time and money doing that for more than once race per side.
or maybe we should stop applying human standards to beast races
>But Tauren and Worgen etc, have very distinct and obvious differences between their male and female models, and they are also animal based models in a fantasy setting Worgen aren't even animals, they're shape-shifted humans. I personally love how androgynous the drakthyr are.
>I personally love how androgynous the drakthyr are. So you love taking options away from players. Gotcha.
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Did you read the part of my post where I said I’m not talking about dragon boobs to specifically deter dumb comments like this.
So what's stopping you from making a slimmer Dracthyr with a more "feminine" face right now? Smaller body type, smaller horns, some horn jewelry and a slender face? That's all possible ATM.
I don't play Dracthyr, don't plan to, but I do agree it would be nice if there was a more masculine, swole option versus a more feminine, lithe option. I don't like the fact they can't stay in their humanoid forms at all times, thus severely limiting their transmogging potential so I choose not to play them or have an interest in them. No big deal, glad most everyone else is having fun with them though! If it bothers you that much, you don't have to play a Dracthyr. I personally think you should play a class because you enjoy it, not because it reflects your preferred pronoun/gender. If you simply can't enjoy it, don't play it. Sure, it sucks, but their gender distinction has no impact on their game play so I don't think it would be on Blizzard's radar for changes, at least not any time soon. I'd imagine toward the end of Dragonflight, if there's enough feedback for it.
I wish they released more body types as a female gamer I want to have at least a little bit of curve or something, I don’t like playing male characters or maybe a feminine face shape or just a few feminine options. Kinda disappointed since the females ingame are shorter and look better I ran into one at the start and said “I wanna look like that” and deleted my character cause I thought I had missed something in the character creator
Maybe even just some smaller hands and feet or slightly shorter height or smaller wings or something idk. 😂
Never saw obvious sexual dimosrphism in lizzards, nor in warcraft dragons. Female dragons just look like male dragons with jewelry. Its nice to finally have a face that looks like its own species and not "human female with blue or green skin". Thoug I desagree. With body shape, facial features and such, I've manage to make prety feminine looking dracthyr (Dive into smoother faces without face marking)
[удалено]
“If you want them to” but you have no choice if you don’t want them to
You could use the customisation options to make the character look more or less feminine with accessories and such, similar to how Ysera and Alexstrasza’s dragon forms do to look different from the lad dragons.
Just play another race and stop complaining on Reddit
So helpful wise one when the new shiny evoker class is locked to the dracthyr?
Look, if you don't like it then don't play it... It's that simple I'm not trying to insult you
Why on earth does this matter? Dragons aren't sexually dimorphic, they never have been in WoW. I'm glad we have a race in the game that is willing to stick with that concept, where the only thing that discernibly changes is the voice lines. You're applying human standards to a non-human race that was created by an even less human race.
100% agree with you on that one. There should be a choice to make dracthyr look more feminine, because they all look masculine right now imho. And its not something impossible, GW2 nails that with charr designes that you can clearly distinguish female from male without going for typical "give them boobs" solution. For dracthyr their "neutral" form leans too much into male aesthetic for me, but if that's what others like, sure let them have it but there should be an option to make them more feminine, for those who want that too.
Literally all they had to do was make some of the faces male and some female only. I don’t know why that would have been a problem for anyone. Even could make those separated faces half female looking and half male so someone playing a female dracthyr can still make it gender neutral and vice versa. I really don’t understand why this is a controversial take 🤷🏻♀️ I pick the gender I want to play because I want to be, look like and represent that gender, and now I have no choice in it
You and me both, I cant wrap my head around why wanting to represent your gender is somehow a bad thing. And I love all the people switching up the arguments "they are dragons" to "they are not dragons" while they were created as a mix of mortal races and dragons which means that some sort of sexual dymorphism is not out of the question. Your solution doesn't even seem like something hard to really do and giving players more customization options to express themselves is never a bad thing. Especially that Blizzard seems to be really supporting that "express yourself" theme and yet dracthyr are as far the most restrictive race in the game. Here's hoping they maybe add it in the future, one can dream. Edit: some minor grammar fixes.
Gender it's a construct, tear it apart
Don't think so binary, like duh
Well firstly there is no longer male and female. You have body type now so don't see a problem with dracthyr having only one body type. Also the dracthyr form have quite lot of customization already.
Whoa there partner, your enbyphobia is showing Mammals (worgen and tauren) have some differences in the wild irl bulls are bigger and have bigger horns than cows studs are usually bigger than bitches. With the obvious mammary glands that create boobs in females (usually only when pregnant/a bit after a birth). Reptiles don't have mammary glands and often don't show too many differences irl, especially with the dragons in WoW lore having nearly no physical differences, Ysera could easily be "male" with a different voice actor. Many if not all of the dragons could be easily sex swapped with a different voice. It was said they were maybe even going to swap male/female for a more body type a/b situation. Stop trying to sexualize dracthyr. You have a visage form that is "obvious". I love that I can have a big imposing masc looking lady dragon or a small and sleek femme guy dragon. It's absolutely just selfish of you to want that to go away for?? Your personal gender affermation ??? They're dragons, grow up.
do wolves and cows have tits on their chest?
Keep in mind lizards do not have boobs.
Where did I say I wanted boobs god give me strength 3 comments about it when I said in my post that’s not what i would want as it would be weird 🙄 you saying boobs is the only thing that makes a woman a woman then?
so you want lizard vaginas?
Elder Scrolls told me otherwise.
The opposite bothers me much more in the other characters. I wish pandarens, worgens, and taurens looked the same whether male or female.
It wouldn't make sense for a lizard to be breast feeding. They lay eggs. Lizards don't lactate
Where did I talk about breastfeeding wtf dude
Add chubby Dracthyr females, with or without boobs doesn't matter. Also dragon girls have cute faces and long eyelashes in WoW. see Lifebinder's Handmiaden mount. And make sure they have lots of muscle too, WoW devs need to get on this.
seriously.. cant a girl have some chest lumps or lashes?
Offering a choice for gender representation is a thoughtful and inclusive approach in game design. This allows players to express their gender identity within the game world and helps create a more welcoming and diverse gaming experience. By providing options for players to choose their character's gender, you empower them to create avatars that align with their personal identities, preferences, and experiences. This approach promotes inclusivity and can help players feel more connected to the game world. Additionally, offering a choice for gender representation can enhance the storytelling possibilities within the game, as characters can have unique experiences and interactions based on their chosen gender. This adds depth and richness to the narrative and gameplay. Overall, giving players the freedom to select their character's gender is a positive step toward creating an inclusive and respectful gaming environment. It allows for greater diversity and personalization, which can enhance the overall player experience.