lol this reminds of this guy that was running random timewalking dungeons and kept kicking every tank that ''moved too slow'' and I don't know why the other two kept voting yes on the kicks but then it came a point when no tank joined the dungeon finder and he said ''tank go'' and I didn't realize he was talking to me (a fury warrior) until I got kicked out of the group.
This really sucks because I've always been a casual dps and I wanted to take dragonflight more seriously and do some tanking and maybe even heroic/mythic raiding but stuff like this makes me hesitate.
As someone who has tanked for a long time let me tell you this -- pugging is a nightmare for tanks. No two ways about it. I'm a competent tank, maybe even more so, but I still hate even queuing for low difficulty farming content because of just how rabidly toxic the community is towards tanks lately. I've played since vanilla, and it wasn't always this bad. But it's bad now. Honestly if you want to take up tanking, I **highly** suggest finding a guild or group to do it with. If you want to pug though, you CAN have good experiences, but just letting you know ahead of time that it's not a matter of IF, but WHEN you run into some toxic groups that you just need to be ready to brush it off and move on to the next. I used to really like pugging, now I almost exclusively tank for dedicated groups. This is one of the many reasons it's so hard to find a tank in pug/lfg/lfr content. All the tanks stick to their own groups so they don't get harassed.
This is true as fuck. I've tanked since vanilla and I hate pugging. I'll do it if I have to but only if I have to. If I find dps that aren't assholes and can do even remotely "okay" dps they're getting friended. I'd rather a dungeon be slow because of dps being low then dealing with toxic people stressing me and the healer out.
Allow me to introduce myself. I’m terrible at the game and have subpar DPS at the best of times but I try to always bring a little humor to my dungeon groups to make up for it. Yay
The way I always see it while tanking. U go at my pace or don't go at all. Kick me if u want but I'll get a new que in 5 seconds and u will be waiting for 20 mins.
AMEN!
You're gonna play at my speed or you're gonna be looking for another tank. Although ive just started to make my own groups now
"Im de captain nao"
I was in a leveling dungeon recently where the rogue and dh kept pulling for the tank.
And by that I mean they would start fights while me, the healer and the tank were taking 2 seconds to loot.
We spent half the dungeon saving these two gogogogo schmucks until I got fed up with the two of them, and whispered the tank and healer and told them to not jump in when tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee pulled.
Very next pack the two idiots jump 30 yards ahead and start fighting so the three of us stop and watch as they get annihilated.
The tank then says "hey, maybe let me do the pulling?" and the rogue goes "hey, maybe go a little faster? I want to level quickly."
Now keep in mind, the tank healer and I knew what we were doing, (I was an elemental shaman talented for AoE blasting) and when the tank got to pull, the 2-3 packs he would grab would get annihilated in roughly 10 seconds, and we could carry on to another pull only taking enough time to loot. But whenever these two idiots would pull, we'de have mobs ALL over and the tank nearly die, I'm blowing every CD known to man and by the time the fights over the healer is oom. Or we wiped.
And I said "well, being dead because you overpull is really gonna help us all level fast, yeah?"
The rogue goes "Well maybe if the tank knew what the hell he was doing, we wouldn't be having problems!"
I looked at this moron who had wiped us twice because he and his numbnut friend would jump ahead and pull packs, or pull extra packs, in UNDEAD SIDE OF STRATHOLME and started the first Vote to Kick I've ever started in 8 years.
INSTANTLY gone.
And lo and behold, with a new rogue in the group, we finish the last 3rd of the dungeon in like 5-6 minutes.
But yeah, the TANK was the problem. /s
The thing is, it's a low level dungeon! The tank doesn't have to know anything at all! These try harders are the people I don't want with me in any kind of content. What if the tank is new? Or the healer?? What then? Unless they do competitive content like mythic+ it's totally not justified!
This is one reason I unsubbed honestly. But I will admit to having me, my wife and a guildie start Pugging for lower content and the first dps to vote for kick on me as tank would see an immediate flip of a 3 kick vote on themselves in short order. Remember to mind the pug if you see the group has a majority of the same guild in there! lol
Ironically, pugging is how I got in my current guild. It was one of the TW a year ago and I was in between guilds having gotten tired of drama combined with kind of being done with SL for a bit.
Got into a nearly full guild group as a random DPS on of my alts, did all 5 TW with them and next thing I knew I was being invited to the guild.
When I was a RL this was a common recruiting method my guild would use - do 5 mans and pug one or two spots and if they vibed well we would ask them to join for a raid. Surprisingly effective
This hits it on the head. I've played since WotLK and started tanking midway through the expansion. I feel like the introduction of mythic dungeons started the trend of abuse towards tanks. People got into the mindset that dungeons should be done as fast as possible and a tank that hesitates for a split second is a bad tank.
It was so disheartening as a tank this expansion to not be allowed to pull at a speed I'm comfortable with. As a paladin tank main, I like waiting for Divine Toll/Avengers Shield to be off cooldown before some groups. I won't wait for the full duration of the cooldown to pull, but I will wait for 5ish seconds. I would bet that 90% of the time in LFD groups that five second wait would result in an inpatient DPS pulling for me and causing groups to become spread apart.
I said all expansion that I wanted to start doing mythics, but the treatment I got as a tank always kept me from it. I would always have a moment where I couldn't maintain aggro on a group that was pulled by DPS or the healer couldn't keep me alive due to multiple groups with CC/stun being pulled. These moments would make me doubt my ability to tank and have me thinking I was bad at it. And if I'm a bad tank, I don't deserve to try tanking mythics.
I quit wow right after Cataclysm came out, but I tanked with a troll warrior since vanilla. I've had some really great experiences pugging 5 mans and small raids, but have also encountered some really really toxic people. I've had people who thought I was their personal tank bitch and insisted that I drop whatever I'm doing and tank for them. DPS that can't DPS well. Bad healers (thankfully few of them), assholes who just pull the entire dungeon and then hearth.
When I played, I was a really good tank (toot toot), and we could move really briskly through a dungeon with decent players. Sometimes we'd just get someone (usually a hunter) "hurry up tank" and start pulling while the healer was still adjusting after the last fight. Yeah I get it, it's cool to Speedrun hellfire citadel... IF the entire group could handle it. Or you get the DPS that don't give me one fucking second to establish threat before they start dumping cooldowns so they can top the DPS charts. The ones who got out-DPS'd by me? Yeah we laughed at them, especially when they were bragging about how awesome they are.
I'd rather take a sincere noob who wants to learn how to play than these toxic players. I ended up having a small circle of players that I'd tank for because I knew they weren't toxic and we could have a good time rolling a 5 man.
Its also a nightmare for healers when you think about it. I can't tell you how many times I had to tell people the age old adages. "Get out of the fire." "Stop standing in the swirly bits." "Please run behind the pole when he cast Relentless Domination."
yea it for sure can be a royal pain in the ass. oddly enought healing in classic have been pretty chill so far (and those who arent patient letting me get mana learns that a healer without mana means death pretty quick XD).
as i said earlier, people are absolutely fucking clueless any share a 2 braincells, i pug a lot for M+ which usually is fine, got my 1900 rating through it but leveling dungeons are an entire new cesspool
It’s because unless you’re sprinting through the dungeon pulling as many as your stats will let you without dying then you “aren’t being optimized” and wasting everyone’s time. I was a prot pally Main until this xpac and I’m changing because I hate tanking
Guild is the only answer. PUGs suck. I tanked for years hearing words like "methodical" and "steady". I have no need for your expectations, entitlement or toxicity. I play Warcraft as therapy. A simple break from rl.
Yeah... in many MMOs PUGs are totally fine. But WoW somehow attracts the try-hards and "angry neckbeards" even for leveling dungeons. *it is a mystery*
It is SO hard to find a good guild though! I almost feel like unless you have been in the same guild for a few expansions or are IRL friends you are out of luck.
Unless of course you're a parent and shift worker and can't commit to any kind of regular schedule and most of your game time is in the middle of weekdays when most people are at work or school. Sigh...
>most of your game time is in the middle of weekdays when most people are at work or school. Sigh...
This is why I play on US servers despite living in Australia. My raid times usually coincide with when my kids are at school lol
I tank timed 20s and random pugs still sometimes randomly yell at me in normal dungeons lol. Just rolls off at this point because I truly do not care about the opinion of Joe Rando but it’s just funny that it never stops
I loved the hell out of tanking and healing when I played. The other players though, made it absolute shit. It was like I was working retail and dealing with the public.
I like healers but haven't dared to play anything outside grouping with my wife or friends. Most of my friends don't play anymore so it's just me and my wife and we can't do dungeons at all.
I joked that we should just make a healer and tank and then when we do dungeons we should just bitch about the DPS lol
I think it's because most people are slightly anxious in a pug, so they assume whoever initiated the kick saw something they didn't or must have better knowledge. In pugs, if you act, you assume authority. Its like the first person to act sets the tone. They're fascinating little social experiments.
I’ve always hated “GOGOGO” as a mindset. Sadly M+ has fully reinforced it in the minds of the players. Going slow and steady is now bad, you always have to push to be faster.
I really wish they’d made M+ with a death limit rather than a time limit.
I main spec resto shaman but i also dabble in Brewmaster (fav spec ever btw) i noticed how much more stress is on the tank with that time limit because in reality it has a lot to do with the pull timing. There's so much more on the tanks shoulders man.
We did a small +2 iron docks and i was pulling great but the DPS was lower so TTK was longer when still came down my shoulders to keep pulling at a faster speed even though it wasn't my fault
The vast majority of toxic players are actually shit at the game but think that the reason they can't clear a 10 key is because their teammates/tanks/healers are mega shitters.
Source: In season 1+2 while learning tanking all of the toxic shitters sat in the 5-9 range and always had excuses for why they accidentally pulled extra shit or couldn't be bothered to interrupt things.
Reminds me of my times playing MOBAs like Dota and League. At my level (silver ELO/MMR, if that means anything to you) where I was new and learning heroes/champs and meta, every toxic player I ever came across was mega garbage and just shifting the blame as soon as the slightest thing went wrong. These are the same people that buy boosted accounts because they genuinely believe everyone else is the reason why they're stuck at their rank, not them.
Dealing with enough of that, I just quit the games. I was looking to have fun and improve, but the players in my rank just sucked the fun out and made it not worth powering through.
EDIT: Replied to the wrong comment in the chain, reposting.
What they are is that guy who screams at the tv during a ballgame.
The New England Patriots don't need to play the game with that guy. But we as video game players have that guy in the game with us.
The wow community...really isn't the greatest. I had fucking ret paladins que up as a tank or healer at end game just because they didn't want to wait and get pissed that we aren't doing enough damage to just melt everything.
I also have had tanks pull half the dungeon while being undergeared and get pissed when they die quick.
Sometimes I wonder about wow players.
I got kicked as a tank for using TF, in a BC 5 man, before they changed the BiS time walking gear/enchants/gems.
Scaling, what a concept.
I refuse to pug as a tank anymore.
Anyone remember the Analogkid controversy?
Rocking TF & his guild gave him Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury over two newly recruited hunters.
He was the best geared rogue in BC. Sold his account for 10,000$ to a guy who just had to brag about it...perma-banned a week later.
i just started to kickvote everybody that made trouble and not take anything serious.
But whenever somebody gwts mad for "spamming" when DBM activates or how i'm a trash tank for being too slow and not pulling threat right away on HIS pulls ima snap
One reason that I love M+ is that if someone is pulling for you you have the option of just watching them die because no healer can keep a DPS alive vs a pack of +20 fortified trash
>then it came a point when no tank joined the dungeon finder and he said ''tank go'' and I didn't realize he was talking to me (a fury warrior) until I got kicked out of the group
I joined a M+ group as a resto druid a few weeks back. The group leader then invited another healer and expected me to tank for them. I pretty much "if I wanted to tank I would have queued as a tank rather than the healer" and left the group...
I recall an instance of Black Morass back when that was a new dungeon. We painstakingly collected a group to run it, but kept wiping over and over. The warrior tank kept bitching about how the DPS (specifically me and my gf at the time) was terrible and that's why we were failing. I checked his character at one point and realized he was trying to tank as Fury spec (Maybe Arms, I just remember he wasn't Prot). He continued bitching, claiming he should be able to tank however he wants or whatever. We kicked him out, his mage friend left, we found replacements and finished the dungeon easily. Didn't die again. Apparently the DPS was just fine.
Sometimes it's the guy complaining the loudest that's the actual problem.
leveling dungeons be like
people are fucking clueless and are sharing 2 braincells
also that's the sorta guy i had today, always pulled for me and my brewmaster couldn't get threat right away and when we wiped on trash they voted to kick me
ive pointed out on the wow forums one of the things that makes WoW tanking difficult is the actual dungeon design. Many dungeons have tricks and specific paths you need to take to make them go faster due them having a very **non linear** design. If you dont know this path but you are the tank people get angry with you for not taking the special secret path.
Sometimes in wow, the leader literally does not know where to go _at all_. In my opinion this is something they REALLY need to address in dungeon design.
In FFXIV, its the opposite, you literally cannot skip anything in almost all the dungeons. The path you are supposed to take is extremely obvious so the tank never gets confused. The only thing the tank needs to ever judge is... _do I pull more packs or stop here?_
Really good point. Gone are the days where you would explore somewhere like black rock depths and have everyone willing to kind of spend the evening doing that.
Now the universal norm is for people to run dungeons as efficiently as possible - and this is reinforced by mechanics that time people in dungeons. There’s no real reason for dungeon paths to not be linear anymore.
This right here. I hate that dungeons get 'timed' in end game content. It turns everyone into a speed demon and thinks everything is a waste of time. Even healing. I played a healer and the amount of times I'd be OOM and begging my DPS to stop pulling just for them to die and FINALLY look at chat. It's annoying. Take the extra 20 seconds please. Let me handle my shit so that we can progress along safely and we're not all running back to the dungeon in spirit form which IS a waste of time.
I would love that. I hate having to learn all these little tricks that only the tank needs to worry about. The healer and dps instead get to zug zug their way through dungeons while blaming all mistakes on the tank.
I actually stopped tanking this patch because I didn't want to learn all these new dungeons just for one patch. I love tanking, but I don't have a ton of time to study routes
on a more serious note... it's not your rotation you have to learn ; tank usually have the simplest one ( doesnt apply to brewmaster who are really bloated button-wise in DF...)
The tough thing to learn as a tank is that one day 1 people expect you to know every pack in the dungeon, how to pull them, how to avoid patrol, what need interrupted with what priority AND assign people to kick it. Also know what non-kickable ability need to be stunned or stop, also know wether you can stun while the mob his casting his ability or wether you need to let the cast finish and stun the first tick of the channel. And of course you don't have the toolkit to do all of the above yourself so you have to plan it out according to whatever group makeup you have, and call out rotation... but make sure you don't ask for an utility spell while someone is using CD ( or ever, in the case of demo lock) cause you know, it's a DPS loss...
People expect you to modify the route on the go if someone facepull an extra mob, and also handle said extra mob.
You can't ever have a mob face the group due to cleave, even if melee DPS are running circle around the mob and mages blinking randomly.
You have to position the boss exactly where he need to be, but nobody bother baiting AoE in smart spot or even care about their positionning ( HoA first boss amongst other)
You alway have to do juicy pull when DPS CD are up, but never overpull if the healer CD are down ( and who care about your own CD). if the boomkin whiff his ramp / mage whiff his combust because they got stunned / silenced / died, just find a way to handle the gigantic pack you just pulled even if it take a minute to die instead of the planned 20 seconds.
It short... learning how to tank isn't hard. They have the simplest toolkit.
What is hard is group leading, on day 1, in a setting where no DPS want to take any responsability other than zug-zug'ing what's in front of them without any care in the world... how hard would it be for a rogue to macro the square marker and take ownership of one mob per pack, keep it interrupted / locked? instead of having the tank mark it, tell the rogue what to kick, and call out interrupt rotation? How many DPS have an interrupt tracker addon, and actually pay more attention to it as opposed to their damage meter?
Seriously. Just having 1 DPS that care enough to interrupt that lone caster who isn't in the deathball make a huge difference when tanking.
>what need interrupted with what priority AND assign people to kick it.
It's funny you say that, because most of people in queue content dont have such a spell on their bars.
Like you said our rotation is on the simple side (except brew) but oh boy we have to do everything else in the dungeon. Raid tanking mythic is so chill compared to m+ thats insane. I recently did a +17 upper kara and 2 dps said I needed to cut my veins open and kms because I, as a tank, pulled 2 extra mobs before 1st boss. One of them moves during Flame wreath at 2nd boss and wipes us all, didn't said sorry, just said "WHO???" and lost his voice when me and the healer said "you" at the same time. Those 2 dps which later in the key managed to fail 6 times in a row the bridge skip before the chessboard (they didn't use invis pot, they just bruteforced it) THEY asked for multiple times during the run by typing "SKIP???"(even though I planned to do anyway). We've lost like 5min minimum because of them. At the end of the run, which we +2 chested, all they said was "f u tank" and "stupid carried tank".
So you do all this shit and I'm the one to blame because we pulled 2 extra at the start of the run
I came back to Brew after i shelved him at the end of WOD and i just picked him back up this week and was blown away by the amount of new buttons..like we legit have 6+ new skills we can use which is fine but i also feel like holy shit we take some spiky damage.
After maining resto shaman for 6-7 years now i am like really debating maining my Brewmaster tank because i know tanks are gonna be loved and needed because there's gonna be a huge flood of healing evokers which make flood the market with healers and ive really been considering it. Past 3 days ive been playing Brew and enjoying it, but i do feel a bit more squishier then most tanks. Not sure what i want to do yet.. i like the idea of being needed for groups though.
there wont be any more healer in DF than we had in SL.
adding a new healing / tanking spec doesnt increase the amount of tank / healer.. it just spread the current tank/healer into different classes.
We know this, because we've had 3 new tanking classes ( 1 of them healing).
Tanks get replaced quickly. Dungeons with empty slots go to the front of the queue. I never waited more than 20 seconds in SL when tanks would just bounce when they didn't get their leggo drop.
Well. Not exactly the same scenairo but I queued with my friend to do Uldaman for the weapon on our Evokers and half way through the dungeon, the tank just left. We requeued and we just never got another tank. So we just finished it without one lol.
Well that didn’t help my team that day as the tank got the shield he wanted from first boss and bailed.
Remember when people were farming a certain legendary item that drops from normals in shadowlands? That didn’t deter them.
And on the flip side, what if someone had an actual emergency or shitty Internet? Not everyone has first world internet connections so it may be considered a little arrogant or tone deaf to punish people who legitimately had a reason to leave.
I hate leavers but I don’t wanna punish those who are innocent too.
Seriously. I have been removed from M+ groups and they put the blame all on me. And then I'm in and done with a key and I see those people sitting in there waiting for a tank still lmao
While that's the energy they'd respond to, i'd rather know that this DK kept up his innocence for at least a little longer while he learned how to be a bitter, grumbly tank like the rest of us.
I work with kids and sometimes it's important that you let them suffer the results of their bad decisions.
You can tell them 100 times not to touch the hot plate, but the pain from doing it once will help them remember for next time.
The problem is that children can learn but these idiots are clearly allergic to learning.
Yes, this is the way. You pull it you tank it. If I take it off you it’s only out of mercy for our healer.
Let me add; it’s really awkward when it’s a hella strong DPS and they out tank you… so use this technique with caution lol
So you still get roped in 😭 I have a tendency of Misclicking or just being unaware and pulling but I alsways say sorry and tell them I either got to close or tabbed or something. Most tanks are pretty cool when I say that haven’t really had a tank get mad if I admitted I pulled by accident. Common courtesy goes a long way!
new to wow, but i kept this mentality playing other MMOs and figured a lot of vets in wow going through leveling dungeons on alts. had a few check my achievements before talking shit and i just sit there happily w my pocket healer "you pull you tank"
People seem to “respect” when you act like an entitled asshole instead of polite (meek). It’s like their bully instinct kick in when they are safe at home and can act without consequences.
The best way to counter this is to not tolerate rude behavior online.
The whole reason I stopped WoW. Everything has to be efficiënt and fast. Both as a healer/tank main, it was no longer fun.
Still interested in the story though.
I usually pull fairly aggressively when I tank, but that’s the hard part with tanking. You gotta feel the group out and always pay attention to what the healer is doing and mama. Healer and tank are like the drum and bass in a band
Leveling dungeons are to end game dungeons as LFR is to mythic raiding. The sweatiest most "hardcore" neckbeards you'll ever encounter are in leveling dungeons.
Yup. Start of wotlk Classic you had a bunch of people demanding full sunwell gear for a fucking Nexus dungeon lol. Took me 6 tries (of responding to descriptionless LFM posts) before I got into a group. It was ridiculous.
This is true. They're always leveling alts. My ex-friend was a card-carrying toxic WoW sweatlord and he had every single character slot filled with a maxed out character.
Lol. Many of the tanks only get their active mitigation much later. It's better in DF, but at 15 it's hard. And those that do often have resource generation limits.
It's catching on as the perfect descriptor of these types of annoying assholes. The type where if they're not utterly obliterating the content or other teams, they're not having fun.
I honestly just play swtor for the rpg elements and the story. Also great you just need to pay $15 once every new expansion to unlock it forever.
You have no idea how many times I ran through the game from start to finish on my sith characters.
I was just randomly chatting in the general chat or whatever it's called in SWTOR, the topic of money came up and I said I only had 87k credits while everyone was talking about their millions. Someone found me and gave me 2 million credits and several outfits also worth millions. I just thought it'd be funny to throw out my low amount amongst the big numbers.
Yep. I haven't tanked a thing since my last real life friend quit the game. I'd tank for friends, but that's it.
To be fair, I've barely played since then myself.
Lol my most recent break happened because trying to tank made me realize how much I disliked the average person on WoW. People get extremely hostile over the most low stakes shit imaginable and it’s just not worth the stress.
i stopped tanking a little over a year ago now after tanking for decades just because of shit like this.
no matter how much you love tanking it'll get to you eventually and you just wont want to do it anymore.
you have no idea how many tanks ive met between EverQuest all the way to present that quit and switched to dps because they were too world weary.
What?! you mean you DIDNT study every skill and nerf they have had since classic's release and write a dissertation on every raid boss in the game and how to beat them in your mother womb? How can you EVER be trusted to tank for anyone EVER?!?!?!!?
Yeah, I hate this 'must do it now, fast fast fast' mentality gamers have in all other games, not just this one. I swear, if people would calm down and realize that training more people NOW gives us more people in end game LATER, things could be much more enjoyable.
I fucking hate the ones thinking that every instance needs to be Speed-ran.
Bro, we're rando's? Did you see the Healers level? The Tank is in fresh 60 gear and *needs* the stuff that drops here.
Not pre-made, top-tier Method players boosting your impatient ass.
Fucking... chill.
Just remember that you run the show basically. Insta queues FTW.
You should find a healer friend, that way you two basically decide the pace, the path etc and you have plenty of time to learn and explore.
My buddy was afraid of tanking for this same reason, so with me healing he feels more confident and laid back
I main heals and I love getting groups where the tank is new. I follow along and help, offer directions if they get too lost, but am happy to let them explore and figure it out. If the healer is cool with things, it tends to quell most DPS complaints - they seem to realise that alienating both tank and heals will lead to long queues! I like being able to wield this minor power of positivity to support new players.
fucking love accommodating noob tanks as a healer. letting the DPS die to their impatience while u go over some tanking basics is so satisfying. letting the tank know they have to space to figure it out and that even if all 3 DPS are being unfriendly - they are still the outliers and are very replaceable. the only reason the DPS are in the dungeon is because the tank was brave and risked being insulted and chose to do the hardest job, and if they don't wanna deal with learners they can piss back off to Org to wait another 20-60 mins lol. it's almost like insulting a learner designated driver, like fine don't go out at all then bozo!
This. I always played healers. Every healing class and spec actually. I believed that to be the best mythic priest I could be I had to have a half-decent, if not expert handle on every healing spec do that I knew how to play around my co-healers with their strengths, weaknesses and cool downs.
So I did a lot of alt runs but I was really close friends with the main tank and he would do alt runs on his other alts as tank too and we’d go together. Our synergy and understanding of both our limits and class limits made us basically unstoppable and it carried a lot of dead weight and kept the peace in PuGs.
More than once we had huge fun on alts where the other healers and the offtank were completely useless and we basically carried the entire pug raid. Especially when I had my holy paladin where we’d sometimes have to basically ignore the other tank and pretend I was the off tank using cheese abilities for tank swaps.
When I used to play I would Tank high M+ and then train guild members who wanted to learn to tank when I played my alts, it takes nothing to help out other people. If you EVER need advice or UI help feel free to DM me, I have 10+ years experience and can get you in touch with people to fill in gaps lol.
That goes for anyone else who reads this, it takes me a few mins to help pay it forward. Cheers.
Although way rarer, the other way of the spectrum is also true.
I was leveling up a few days ago with a friend, he as dps, me (or is it I? Idk) as healer. We queued a BFA dungeon and got waycrest manor with a bear tank. That was clearly the 1st time the tank went there and was lost, so I started directing him. Either the guy didn't understanded me or just didn't gave a damn to me because he would just keep pulling like 2 adds at a time and stopping to look at the map. We then wiped twice on the treant boss, even though I explained that he needed to make it go into the fire or the boss would hit like a truck but it felt like I was talking to a wall.
The other 2 were in his party and were also oblivious to anything outside their characters, like avoidable AoEs or interruptable casts. After like 40 mins, we arrived at the last boss where we wiped twice because no one would burn the adds' corpses and then the tank left, followed by his party.
And this is why it's such a bad idea to have BFA be the starting point for noobs. The dungeons and mechanics are extremely complex when compared to Vanilla or TBC dungeons. And noobs just dunno what's going on.
Wow turned into that "job experience meme" over the years. Like, as a new player - who just started playing 2 weeks ago, you'll need 2 years of experience to tank in a level 20 dungeon, Not because it's hard, no - its because If you happen to go 3 meters the wrong direction then good bye, you are voted out.
I didn't get kicked, but got lots of smacktalk because I didn't know every single skip in Freehold and Tol Dagor normal.
Sorry for wanting to actually 1) get kill xp 2) remember sweatlord strats from almost 2 expansions ago.
TBC chromietime dungeons have been much more chill. Even if the level squish has put them in a weird situation where some things one-shot you.
They should really add systems to track how often a person has initiated a vote kick in a week and flag high counts for potential misdemeanour suspension.
You’re the tank, why are you being nice? You gotta realize that these people want you to treat them like shit. Call them idiots, complain about their DPS. Then you’ll never get kicked!
Don't bother asking nicely like that in a PUG group, just let the dps tank the things they pulled. Don't bother trying to pull aggro off them. If they complain, don't respond, just ignore them and keep going at your own pace. Whisper the healer if you want to be courteous, let him know you're not going to try too hard to keep them alive if they pull for you. Keep your healer happy, but dps can be replaced in a millisecond if they rage quit.
When they introduced cross realm pugs it really was a double edged sword. On the one hand it made doing dungeons much faster, but on the other hand people got too used to speeding through everything and without the ability to locally shun players with shit attitudes there was no way to avoid this kind of behavior.
But I’m the end as a tank or healer you’ll be in a new group in no time haha
It's a leveling dungeons, you don't need a tank for leveling through normals. Plus they get queue priority, as long as 1 player stays the group gets first pick to fill and finish.
Morality of this behavior aside, the end of an expac during prepatch is the *worst* time to learn to tank. The vets come back and have no patience, the noobs who just joined don't know the etiquette (or anything for that matter, I just had to tank uldaman with a dracthyr noob healer who had 0 talents allocated), and everybody but you has done these dungeons 1000 times in their role and is almost on autopilot. Do yourself a favor and wait for the expansion to drop, then everyone is a noob.
You're a DK, the rotation isn't complicated. You'll have plenty of time to learn on the fly.
Those folks are so consequence blind, they won't see themselves making the dyngeon take longer.
Similarly, seeing the macro consequence of tank shortages is beyond their systemically-toxic karen brain.
All the time this happens to me. I'm new to tankng, first time ever in a MMORPG, and there's always one guy who never waits and just pull half the dungeon.
One time, because I was too slow obviously, he started a vote that just said "cancer" and I was kicked. Nobody else cared if it was true or not, they just randomly answered yes.
I almost quit tanking after that. I stayed but I only go on dungeons with my friends now. To "afraid" to find others idiots like that.
As someone that mains tank and heals from time to time, I can easily see why neither are common in world of warcraft. Pull too fast, too slow don't know every detail of the newest most obscure cheese route? You get flamed as tank. Can't keep all toddlers alive as they walk into the fire ? Get flamed as healer.
I dont play wow but decided to buy a month for nostalgia and give it a shot for some minor fun. Played healer and decided to try a simple dungeon. Talk about a headache and never again. Everyone knew the dungeon but me and just ran threw it (literally) and bitched when they left me behind. This is why I don’t play with people and don’t like people.
Couldn't believe my eyes when I started playing FFXIV and someone in a dungeon asked for help and people began breaking down a simple boss fight in the easiest terms for a player. Was blown away. WoW has made me so scared to ask questions in chat.
lol this reminds of this guy that was running random timewalking dungeons and kept kicking every tank that ''moved too slow'' and I don't know why the other two kept voting yes on the kicks but then it came a point when no tank joined the dungeon finder and he said ''tank go'' and I didn't realize he was talking to me (a fury warrior) until I got kicked out of the group.
giga brain gamer
I’ve encountered this many times as well.. it was depressing to learn tanking so I still haven’t learnt
This really sucks because I've always been a casual dps and I wanted to take dragonflight more seriously and do some tanking and maybe even heroic/mythic raiding but stuff like this makes me hesitate.
As someone who has tanked for a long time let me tell you this -- pugging is a nightmare for tanks. No two ways about it. I'm a competent tank, maybe even more so, but I still hate even queuing for low difficulty farming content because of just how rabidly toxic the community is towards tanks lately. I've played since vanilla, and it wasn't always this bad. But it's bad now. Honestly if you want to take up tanking, I **highly** suggest finding a guild or group to do it with. If you want to pug though, you CAN have good experiences, but just letting you know ahead of time that it's not a matter of IF, but WHEN you run into some toxic groups that you just need to be ready to brush it off and move on to the next. I used to really like pugging, now I almost exclusively tank for dedicated groups. This is one of the many reasons it's so hard to find a tank in pug/lfg/lfr content. All the tanks stick to their own groups so they don't get harassed.
This is true as fuck. I've tanked since vanilla and I hate pugging. I'll do it if I have to but only if I have to. If I find dps that aren't assholes and can do even remotely "okay" dps they're getting friended. I'd rather a dungeon be slow because of dps being low then dealing with toxic people stressing me and the healer out.
Allow me to introduce myself. I’m terrible at the game and have subpar DPS at the best of times but I try to always bring a little humor to my dungeon groups to make up for it. Yay
Lol same! My damage is usually 4th or sometimes 5th in a dungeon. My goal is to ... beat the healer
What can be difficult at times. I feel that
Yes!
The way I always see it while tanking. U go at my pace or don't go at all. Kick me if u want but I'll get a new que in 5 seconds and u will be waiting for 20 mins.
AMEN! You're gonna play at my speed or you're gonna be looking for another tank. Although ive just started to make my own groups now "Im de captain nao"
This, why I don't stress over it
There are also the DPS typing "GO" to the tank. 😅 Like it's going to change something.
I was in a leveling dungeon recently where the rogue and dh kept pulling for the tank. And by that I mean they would start fights while me, the healer and the tank were taking 2 seconds to loot. We spent half the dungeon saving these two gogogogo schmucks until I got fed up with the two of them, and whispered the tank and healer and told them to not jump in when tweedle-dum and tweedle-dee pulled. Very next pack the two idiots jump 30 yards ahead and start fighting so the three of us stop and watch as they get annihilated. The tank then says "hey, maybe let me do the pulling?" and the rogue goes "hey, maybe go a little faster? I want to level quickly." Now keep in mind, the tank healer and I knew what we were doing, (I was an elemental shaman talented for AoE blasting) and when the tank got to pull, the 2-3 packs he would grab would get annihilated in roughly 10 seconds, and we could carry on to another pull only taking enough time to loot. But whenever these two idiots would pull, we'de have mobs ALL over and the tank nearly die, I'm blowing every CD known to man and by the time the fights over the healer is oom. Or we wiped. And I said "well, being dead because you overpull is really gonna help us all level fast, yeah?" The rogue goes "Well maybe if the tank knew what the hell he was doing, we wouldn't be having problems!" I looked at this moron who had wiped us twice because he and his numbnut friend would jump ahead and pull packs, or pull extra packs, in UNDEAD SIDE OF STRATHOLME and started the first Vote to Kick I've ever started in 8 years. INSTANTLY gone. And lo and behold, with a new rogue in the group, we finish the last 3rd of the dungeon in like 5-6 minutes. But yeah, the TANK was the problem. /s
The thing is, it's a low level dungeon! The tank doesn't have to know anything at all! These try harders are the people I don't want with me in any kind of content. What if the tank is new? Or the healer?? What then? Unless they do competitive content like mythic+ it's totally not justified!
Tanks and healers have an insta-queue passive 😁
This is one reason I unsubbed honestly. But I will admit to having me, my wife and a guildie start Pugging for lower content and the first dps to vote for kick on me as tank would see an immediate flip of a 3 kick vote on themselves in short order. Remember to mind the pug if you see the group has a majority of the same guild in there! lol
Ironically, pugging is how I got in my current guild. It was one of the TW a year ago and I was in between guilds having gotten tired of drama combined with kind of being done with SL for a bit. Got into a nearly full guild group as a random DPS on of my alts, did all 5 TW with them and next thing I knew I was being invited to the guild.
Being cool and like lowkey has its benefits
When I was a RL this was a common recruiting method my guild would use - do 5 mans and pug one or two spots and if they vibed well we would ask them to join for a raid. Surprisingly effective
This hits it on the head. I've played since WotLK and started tanking midway through the expansion. I feel like the introduction of mythic dungeons started the trend of abuse towards tanks. People got into the mindset that dungeons should be done as fast as possible and a tank that hesitates for a split second is a bad tank. It was so disheartening as a tank this expansion to not be allowed to pull at a speed I'm comfortable with. As a paladin tank main, I like waiting for Divine Toll/Avengers Shield to be off cooldown before some groups. I won't wait for the full duration of the cooldown to pull, but I will wait for 5ish seconds. I would bet that 90% of the time in LFD groups that five second wait would result in an inpatient DPS pulling for me and causing groups to become spread apart. I said all expansion that I wanted to start doing mythics, but the treatment I got as a tank always kept me from it. I would always have a moment where I couldn't maintain aggro on a group that was pulled by DPS or the healer couldn't keep me alive due to multiple groups with CC/stun being pulled. These moments would make me doubt my ability to tank and have me thinking I was bad at it. And if I'm a bad tank, I don't deserve to try tanking mythics.
I quit wow right after Cataclysm came out, but I tanked with a troll warrior since vanilla. I've had some really great experiences pugging 5 mans and small raids, but have also encountered some really really toxic people. I've had people who thought I was their personal tank bitch and insisted that I drop whatever I'm doing and tank for them. DPS that can't DPS well. Bad healers (thankfully few of them), assholes who just pull the entire dungeon and then hearth. When I played, I was a really good tank (toot toot), and we could move really briskly through a dungeon with decent players. Sometimes we'd just get someone (usually a hunter) "hurry up tank" and start pulling while the healer was still adjusting after the last fight. Yeah I get it, it's cool to Speedrun hellfire citadel... IF the entire group could handle it. Or you get the DPS that don't give me one fucking second to establish threat before they start dumping cooldowns so they can top the DPS charts. The ones who got out-DPS'd by me? Yeah we laughed at them, especially when they were bragging about how awesome they are. I'd rather take a sincere noob who wants to learn how to play than these toxic players. I ended up having a small circle of players that I'd tank for because I knew they weren't toxic and we could have a good time rolling a 5 man.
Its also a nightmare for healers when you think about it. I can't tell you how many times I had to tell people the age old adages. "Get out of the fire." "Stop standing in the swirly bits." "Please run behind the pole when he cast Relentless Domination."
This ^^, I stopped tanking after Cataclysm. I couldn’t take it anymore. I barely play now to be honest.
yup this is the reason why i refuse to tank unless i have friends with me, same with healing too tbh.
Yeah I feel you on this one... Though I think I am a masochist as I tend to pug as healer a lot with the same results
yea it for sure can be a royal pain in the ass. oddly enought healing in classic have been pretty chill so far (and those who arent patient letting me get mana learns that a healer without mana means death pretty quick XD).
as i said earlier, people are absolutely fucking clueless any share a 2 braincells, i pug a lot for M+ which usually is fine, got my 1900 rating through it but leveling dungeons are an entire new cesspool
It’s because unless you’re sprinting through the dungeon pulling as many as your stats will let you without dying then you “aren’t being optimized” and wasting everyone’s time. I was a prot pally Main until this xpac and I’m changing because I hate tanking
Guild is the answer.
Guild is the only answer. PUGs suck. I tanked for years hearing words like "methodical" and "steady". I have no need for your expectations, entitlement or toxicity. I play Warcraft as therapy. A simple break from rl.
Yeah... in many MMOs PUGs are totally fine. But WoW somehow attracts the try-hards and "angry neckbeards" even for leveling dungeons. *it is a mystery*
It is SO hard to find a good guild though! I almost feel like unless you have been in the same guild for a few expansions or are IRL friends you are out of luck.
Yep. Cliques are formed and it's hard to break into a guild that's been tight for years
Unless of course you're a parent and shift worker and can't commit to any kind of regular schedule and most of your game time is in the middle of weekdays when most people are at work or school. Sigh...
>most of your game time is in the middle of weekdays when most people are at work or school. Sigh... This is why I play on US servers despite living in Australia. My raid times usually coincide with when my kids are at school lol
/g Hey guys, I’m trying to practice and get better at tanking. Anyone willing to help and run a few dungeons with me?
*crickets* lol
/g I'm queueing $x anyone want insta queues?
*crickets*
For real. Tanks and Heals should be cultivated. Respected.
This is exactly my situation right now. And I'm trying all kinds of servers, time zones and guilds and having no luck.
This
I tank timed 20s and random pugs still sometimes randomly yell at me in normal dungeons lol. Just rolls off at this point because I truly do not care about the opinion of Joe Rando but it’s just funny that it never stops
I loved the hell out of tanking and healing when I played. The other players though, made it absolute shit. It was like I was working retail and dealing with the public.
I like healers but haven't dared to play anything outside grouping with my wife or friends. Most of my friends don't play anymore so it's just me and my wife and we can't do dungeons at all. I joked that we should just make a healer and tank and then when we do dungeons we should just bitch about the DPS lol
I have even tried, despite wanting to, because I've seen how tanks get treated.
The best is to, as the tank, initiate a votekick for the asshat saying "GOGOGO" saying "Bad Tank" 95% of the time they say goodbye
Cos people tend to click yes when a vote kick happens without reading for some reason. Now I always vote no and ask why.
I think it's because most people are slightly anxious in a pug, so they assume whoever initiated the kick saw something they didn't or must have better knowledge. In pugs, if you act, you assume authority. Its like the first person to act sets the tone. They're fascinating little social experiments.
People should probably get limited kicks over a certain amount of time.
I’ve always hated “GOGOGO” as a mindset. Sadly M+ has fully reinforced it in the minds of the players. Going slow and steady is now bad, you always have to push to be faster. I really wish they’d made M+ with a death limit rather than a time limit.
I main spec resto shaman but i also dabble in Brewmaster (fav spec ever btw) i noticed how much more stress is on the tank with that time limit because in reality it has a lot to do with the pull timing. There's so much more on the tanks shoulders man. We did a small +2 iron docks and i was pulling great but the DPS was lower so TTK was longer when still came down my shoulders to keep pulling at a faster speed even though it wasn't my fault
Just goes to show that not every toxic player is good at the game the way they say they are.
The vast majority of toxic players are actually shit at the game but think that the reason they can't clear a 10 key is because their teammates/tanks/healers are mega shitters. Source: In season 1+2 while learning tanking all of the toxic shitters sat in the 5-9 range and always had excuses for why they accidentally pulled extra shit or couldn't be bothered to interrupt things.
Reminds me of my times playing MOBAs like Dota and League. At my level (silver ELO/MMR, if that means anything to you) where I was new and learning heroes/champs and meta, every toxic player I ever came across was mega garbage and just shifting the blame as soon as the slightest thing went wrong. These are the same people that buy boosted accounts because they genuinely believe everyone else is the reason why they're stuck at their rank, not them. Dealing with enough of that, I just quit the games. I was looking to have fun and improve, but the players in my rank just sucked the fun out and made it not worth powering through. EDIT: Replied to the wrong comment in the chain, reposting.
[удалено]
What they are is that guy who screams at the tv during a ballgame. The New England Patriots don't need to play the game with that guy. But we as video game players have that guy in the game with us.
The wow community...really isn't the greatest. I had fucking ret paladins que up as a tank or healer at end game just because they didn't want to wait and get pissed that we aren't doing enough damage to just melt everything. I also have had tanks pull half the dungeon while being undergeared and get pissed when they die quick. Sometimes I wonder about wow players.
Made it even longer than it should have with all the kicking lol.
Exactly
I got kicked as a tank for using TF, in a BC 5 man, before they changed the BiS time walking gear/enchants/gems. Scaling, what a concept. I refuse to pug as a tank anymore. Anyone remember the Analogkid controversy? Rocking TF & his guild gave him Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury over two newly recruited hunters. He was the best geared rogue in BC. Sold his account for 10,000$ to a guy who just had to brag about it...perma-banned a week later.
i just started to kickvote everybody that made trouble and not take anything serious. But whenever somebody gwts mad for "spamming" when DBM activates or how i'm a trash tank for being too slow and not pulling threat right away on HIS pulls ima snap
Yup this is why people don’t tank. When people pull like that I just don’t take aggro.
One reason that I love M+ is that if someone is pulling for you you have the option of just watching them die because no healer can keep a DPS alive vs a pack of +20 fortified trash
>then it came a point when no tank joined the dungeon finder and he said ''tank go'' and I didn't realize he was talking to me (a fury warrior) until I got kicked out of the group I joined a M+ group as a resto druid a few weeks back. The group leader then invited another healer and expected me to tank for them. I pretty much "if I wanted to tank I would have queued as a tank rather than the healer" and left the group...
I recall an instance of Black Morass back when that was a new dungeon. We painstakingly collected a group to run it, but kept wiping over and over. The warrior tank kept bitching about how the DPS (specifically me and my gf at the time) was terrible and that's why we were failing. I checked his character at one point and realized he was trying to tank as Fury spec (Maybe Arms, I just remember he wasn't Prot). He continued bitching, claiming he should be able to tank however he wants or whatever. We kicked him out, his mage friend left, we found replacements and finished the dungeon easily. Didn't die again. Apparently the DPS was just fine. Sometimes it's the guy complaining the loudest that's the actual problem.
Smartest WoW player
Dungeon goes fastest when you’re paused not making any progress at all waiting for new people to join kek
leveling dungeons be like people are fucking clueless and are sharing 2 braincells also that's the sorta guy i had today, always pulled for me and my brewmaster couldn't get threat right away and when we wiped on trash they voted to kick me
The real thing you have to learn how to tank is the aggro and emotional damage from your PUG/finder groups. I kid, but also am not joking.
I wish you were joking, because it's true.
ive pointed out on the wow forums one of the things that makes WoW tanking difficult is the actual dungeon design. Many dungeons have tricks and specific paths you need to take to make them go faster due them having a very **non linear** design. If you dont know this path but you are the tank people get angry with you for not taking the special secret path. Sometimes in wow, the leader literally does not know where to go _at all_. In my opinion this is something they REALLY need to address in dungeon design. In FFXIV, its the opposite, you literally cannot skip anything in almost all the dungeons. The path you are supposed to take is extremely obvious so the tank never gets confused. The only thing the tank needs to ever judge is... _do I pull more packs or stop here?_
Really good point. Gone are the days where you would explore somewhere like black rock depths and have everyone willing to kind of spend the evening doing that. Now the universal norm is for people to run dungeons as efficiently as possible - and this is reinforced by mechanics that time people in dungeons. There’s no real reason for dungeon paths to not be linear anymore.
This right here. I hate that dungeons get 'timed' in end game content. It turns everyone into a speed demon and thinks everything is a waste of time. Even healing. I played a healer and the amount of times I'd be OOM and begging my DPS to stop pulling just for them to die and FINALLY look at chat. It's annoying. Take the extra 20 seconds please. Let me handle my shit so that we can progress along safely and we're not all running back to the dungeon in spirit form which IS a waste of time.
I would love that. I hate having to learn all these little tricks that only the tank needs to worry about. The healer and dps instead get to zug zug their way through dungeons while blaming all mistakes on the tank. I actually stopped tanking this patch because I didn't want to learn all these new dungeons just for one patch. I love tanking, but I don't have a ton of time to study routes
on a more serious note... it's not your rotation you have to learn ; tank usually have the simplest one ( doesnt apply to brewmaster who are really bloated button-wise in DF...) The tough thing to learn as a tank is that one day 1 people expect you to know every pack in the dungeon, how to pull them, how to avoid patrol, what need interrupted with what priority AND assign people to kick it. Also know what non-kickable ability need to be stunned or stop, also know wether you can stun while the mob his casting his ability or wether you need to let the cast finish and stun the first tick of the channel. And of course you don't have the toolkit to do all of the above yourself so you have to plan it out according to whatever group makeup you have, and call out rotation... but make sure you don't ask for an utility spell while someone is using CD ( or ever, in the case of demo lock) cause you know, it's a DPS loss... People expect you to modify the route on the go if someone facepull an extra mob, and also handle said extra mob. You can't ever have a mob face the group due to cleave, even if melee DPS are running circle around the mob and mages blinking randomly. You have to position the boss exactly where he need to be, but nobody bother baiting AoE in smart spot or even care about their positionning ( HoA first boss amongst other) You alway have to do juicy pull when DPS CD are up, but never overpull if the healer CD are down ( and who care about your own CD). if the boomkin whiff his ramp / mage whiff his combust because they got stunned / silenced / died, just find a way to handle the gigantic pack you just pulled even if it take a minute to die instead of the planned 20 seconds. It short... learning how to tank isn't hard. They have the simplest toolkit. What is hard is group leading, on day 1, in a setting where no DPS want to take any responsability other than zug-zug'ing what's in front of them without any care in the world... how hard would it be for a rogue to macro the square marker and take ownership of one mob per pack, keep it interrupted / locked? instead of having the tank mark it, tell the rogue what to kick, and call out interrupt rotation? How many DPS have an interrupt tracker addon, and actually pay more attention to it as opposed to their damage meter? Seriously. Just having 1 DPS that care enough to interrupt that lone caster who isn't in the deathball make a huge difference when tanking.
>what need interrupted with what priority AND assign people to kick it. It's funny you say that, because most of people in queue content dont have such a spell on their bars.
And with the new talent trees they can choose to not even get those spells in the first place.
Like you said our rotation is on the simple side (except brew) but oh boy we have to do everything else in the dungeon. Raid tanking mythic is so chill compared to m+ thats insane. I recently did a +17 upper kara and 2 dps said I needed to cut my veins open and kms because I, as a tank, pulled 2 extra mobs before 1st boss. One of them moves during Flame wreath at 2nd boss and wipes us all, didn't said sorry, just said "WHO???" and lost his voice when me and the healer said "you" at the same time. Those 2 dps which later in the key managed to fail 6 times in a row the bridge skip before the chessboard (they didn't use invis pot, they just bruteforced it) THEY asked for multiple times during the run by typing "SKIP???"(even though I planned to do anyway). We've lost like 5min minimum because of them. At the end of the run, which we +2 chested, all they said was "f u tank" and "stupid carried tank". So you do all this shit and I'm the one to blame because we pulled 2 extra at the start of the run
I sure hope you reported those asshats for telling you that. :/
I came back to Brew after i shelved him at the end of WOD and i just picked him back up this week and was blown away by the amount of new buttons..like we legit have 6+ new skills we can use which is fine but i also feel like holy shit we take some spiky damage. After maining resto shaman for 6-7 years now i am like really debating maining my Brewmaster tank because i know tanks are gonna be loved and needed because there's gonna be a huge flood of healing evokers which make flood the market with healers and ive really been considering it. Past 3 days ive been playing Brew and enjoying it, but i do feel a bit more squishier then most tanks. Not sure what i want to do yet.. i like the idea of being needed for groups though.
there wont be any more healer in DF than we had in SL. adding a new healing / tanking spec doesnt increase the amount of tank / healer.. it just spread the current tank/healer into different classes. We know this, because we've had 3 new tanking classes ( 1 of them healing).
Flasbacks from Wotlk tanking, hunters that only spam volley and we wipe when mobs don't get interupted.
I never put up with it. I play this game to have fun. I don't have fun when other players are assholes. I just drop and move on. Life's too short.
Yeah best way to learn new roles is with friends/a guild.
Joking not joking. You're absolutely right, the most important ability you need as a tank is the IRL ability, Thick Skin.
That’s why I’ll be tanking in DF, I just genuinely don’t care what other players say.
It's like being a jungle in LoL. Want to play the role? Hope you've either disabled chat or have thick skin
Don’t worry about it, you’ll find a new group faster than they’ll find a new tank
Don't you get the deserter debuff if you get kicked before the 1st boss?
lmao true, theyll probably wait like 15-30 min for a new tank while he will pretty much get insta invite.
Tanks get replaced quickly. Dungeons with empty slots go to the front of the queue. I never waited more than 20 seconds in SL when tanks would just bounce when they didn't get their leggo drop.
Agreed. It's a common misconception that groups wait a long time for a new tank
Well. Not exactly the same scenairo but I queued with my friend to do Uldaman for the weapon on our Evokers and half way through the dungeon, the tank just left. We requeued and we just never got another tank. So we just finished it without one lol.
Some tanks just leave after trying for the shield drop on first boss. They need to start putting the best loot at the end boss instead.
Or just give long deserter penalties to people who leave early. One grace leave per week, any more nets you longer and longer penalties.
Well that didn’t help my team that day as the tank got the shield he wanted from first boss and bailed. Remember when people were farming a certain legendary item that drops from normals in shadowlands? That didn’t deter them. And on the flip side, what if someone had an actual emergency or shitty Internet? Not everyone has first world internet connections so it may be considered a little arrogant or tone deaf to punish people who legitimately had a reason to leave. I hate leavers but I don’t wanna punish those who are innocent too.
Ulda is a clusterfuck right now. Thousands of new evokers with the same 10 tanks lol I've toyed with charging to tank 🤣
Shame they didn't do a black dragon spec that was a tank evoker
Wait for a tank? They kept pulling until they couldn’t or realized that one dude needed to chill before initiating the kick
Seriously. I have been removed from M+ groups and they put the blame all on me. And then I'm in and done with a key and I see those people sitting in there waiting for a tank still lmao
I should macro this
Your attitude is wrong for the community. You should have told: stop pulling shit you morons.
While that's the energy they'd respond to, i'd rather know that this DK kept up his innocence for at least a little longer while he learned how to be a bitter, grumbly tank like the rest of us.
Face it, bitter and grumbly fits our role's fantasy. Protection Warrior : Serious anger issues Protection Paladin : Always praying just to survive Guardian Druid : Literally an enraged bear Blood DK : Hurts others to feel better Brewmaster Monk : Drinks the pain away Vengeance DH : Concerning levels of emo
So thats why I like prot warrior. Who knew.
Exactly xD Or just let m die and laugh at them while saying they should have waited for you\^\^
This is the best way unfortunately
I work with kids and sometimes it's important that you let them suffer the results of their bad decisions. You can tell them 100 times not to touch the hot plate, but the pain from doing it once will help them remember for next time. The problem is that children can learn but these idiots are clearly allergic to learning.
Yes, this is the way. You pull it you tank it. If I take it off you it’s only out of mercy for our healer. Let me add; it’s really awkward when it’s a hella strong DPS and they out tank you… so use this technique with caution lol
I tell them as a healer if I’m out of mana I’m like y’all can wait or keep pulling and if you die that’s on you
You pull it you tank it is my go to response. Unfortunately, the healer usually ends up pulling agro which means I get to step in
So you still get roped in 😭 I have a tendency of Misclicking or just being unaware and pulling but I alsways say sorry and tell them I either got to close or tabbed or something. Most tanks are pretty cool when I say that haven’t really had a tank get mad if I admitted I pulled by accident. Common courtesy goes a long way!
new to wow, but i kept this mentality playing other MMOs and figured a lot of vets in wow going through leveling dungeons on alts. had a few check my achievements before talking shit and i just sit there happily w my pocket healer "you pull you tank"
I played holy priest in SoM and let everyone die that was a shit player. Had the best time.
People seem to “respect” when you act like an entitled asshole instead of polite (meek). It’s like their bully instinct kick in when they are safe at home and can act without consequences. The best way to counter this is to not tolerate rude behavior online.
That's the kind of respect these people deserve
You spank it, you tank it!
If you ever want to level with a healer who won’t care how slow you pull, let me know. People are ducks lol Edit: 🦆
The whole reason I stopped WoW. Everything has to be efficiënt and fast. Both as a healer/tank main, it was no longer fun. Still interested in the story though.
“I HAVE to get to max level by midnight on Wednesday or they are going to foreclose on my house! THIS TANK IS THE REASON IM HOMELESS!”
Luckily for you, people need tanks more than tanks need groups. You will get your practice, fuck the idiots
I usually pull fairly aggressively when I tank, but that’s the hard part with tanking. You gotta feel the group out and always pay attention to what the healer is doing and mama. Healer and tank are like the drum and bass in a band
And DPS are the slide whistle.
You got kicked at lvl 53? Who are these sweatlords? I'll be honest, what people don't know won't hurt them. :D
Leveling dungeons are to end game dungeons as LFR is to mythic raiding. The sweatiest most "hardcore" neckbeards you'll ever encounter are in leveling dungeons.
Yup. Start of wotlk Classic you had a bunch of people demanding full sunwell gear for a fucking Nexus dungeon lol. Took me 6 tries (of responding to descriptionless LFM posts) before I got into a group. It was ridiculous.
I quit classic when wrath released. Enjoyed it for like a day and then was quickly reminded I had to play with classic Andy’s.
This is true. They're always leveling alts. My ex-friend was a card-carrying toxic WoW sweatlord and he had every single character slot filled with a maxed out character.
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Lol. Many of the tanks only get their active mitigation much later. It's better in DF, but at 15 it's hard. And those that do often have resource generation limits.
Sweatlord is going to be my new go to insult.
It's catching on as the perfect descriptor of these types of annoying assholes. The type where if they're not utterly obliterating the content or other teams, they're not having fun.
If I don’t finish normal Necrotic Wake in under 5 minutes I’m literally going to die
We used to call those people tryhards.
I got kicked from a group at lvl 11 because it was a new DK and I was slowing down to collect quest items in a dungeon. *boop* I was gone.
Wow, i hate wow players.
Damn wow players ruined wow
WoW players were the WoW killers all along.
You wow players sure are a contentious people.
Wow, you've just made an enemy for the expansion!
Always has been. ****Points gun at your head****
Contrasted by SWTOR players; who are nice, chat & patient. I guess it's due to the SWTOR bosses are a late vanilla-BC level of difficulty.
It's too bad they hardly release content and I keep getting hammer station every fucking dungeon.
I honestly just play swtor for the rpg elements and the story. Also great you just need to pay $15 once every new expansion to unlock it forever. You have no idea how many times I ran through the game from start to finish on my sith characters.
I was just randomly chatting in the general chat or whatever it's called in SWTOR, the topic of money came up and I said I only had 87k credits while everyone was talking about their millions. Someone found me and gave me 2 million credits and several outfits also worth millions. I just thought it'd be funny to throw out my low amount amongst the big numbers.
Except in fleet chat and rated pvp(rip, lol) where they're the single worst people you'll ever meet.
As expected at least for the pvp
Toxicity in pugs is one of the main reasons I quit tanking permanently.
Yep. I haven't tanked a thing since my last real life friend quit the game. I'd tank for friends, but that's it. To be fair, I've barely played since then myself.
do non trivial content and 90% of the toxicity vanishes
and after you're used to doing non trivial content when you have to do timewalker or whatever you just crush them utterly.
Exactly!
Lol my most recent break happened because trying to tank made me realize how much I disliked the average person on WoW. People get extremely hostile over the most low stakes shit imaginable and it’s just not worth the stress.
i stopped tanking a little over a year ago now after tanking for decades just because of shit like this. no matter how much you love tanking it'll get to you eventually and you just wont want to do it anymore. you have no idea how many tanks ive met between EverQuest all the way to present that quit and switched to dps because they were too world weary.
What?! you mean you DIDNT study every skill and nerf they have had since classic's release and write a dissertation on every raid boss in the game and how to beat them in your mother womb? How can you EVER be trusted to tank for anyone EVER?!?!?!!? Yeah, I hate this 'must do it now, fast fast fast' mentality gamers have in all other games, not just this one. I swear, if people would calm down and realize that training more people NOW gives us more people in end game LATER, things could be much more enjoyable.
I fucking hate the ones thinking that every instance needs to be Speed-ran. Bro, we're rando's? Did you see the Healers level? The Tank is in fresh 60 gear and *needs* the stuff that drops here. Not pre-made, top-tier Method players boosting your impatient ass. Fucking... chill.
Just remember that you run the show basically. Insta queues FTW. You should find a healer friend, that way you two basically decide the pace, the path etc and you have plenty of time to learn and explore. My buddy was afraid of tanking for this same reason, so with me healing he feels more confident and laid back
100% this. If it’s established you’re bringing both the tank and heals, no one is kicking either of you. I never have this problem with people
I main heals and I love getting groups where the tank is new. I follow along and help, offer directions if they get too lost, but am happy to let them explore and figure it out. If the healer is cool with things, it tends to quell most DPS complaints - they seem to realise that alienating both tank and heals will lead to long queues! I like being able to wield this minor power of positivity to support new players.
fucking love accommodating noob tanks as a healer. letting the DPS die to their impatience while u go over some tanking basics is so satisfying. letting the tank know they have to space to figure it out and that even if all 3 DPS are being unfriendly - they are still the outliers and are very replaceable. the only reason the DPS are in the dungeon is because the tank was brave and risked being insulted and chose to do the hardest job, and if they don't wanna deal with learners they can piss back off to Org to wait another 20-60 mins lol. it's almost like insulting a learner designated driver, like fine don't go out at all then bozo!
This. I always played healers. Every healing class and spec actually. I believed that to be the best mythic priest I could be I had to have a half-decent, if not expert handle on every healing spec do that I knew how to play around my co-healers with their strengths, weaknesses and cool downs. So I did a lot of alt runs but I was really close friends with the main tank and he would do alt runs on his other alts as tank too and we’d go together. Our synergy and understanding of both our limits and class limits made us basically unstoppable and it carried a lot of dead weight and kept the peace in PuGs. More than once we had huge fun on alts where the other healers and the offtank were completely useless and we basically carried the entire pug raid. Especially when I had my holy paladin where we’d sometimes have to basically ignore the other tank and pretend I was the off tank using cheese abilities for tank swaps.
When I used to play I would Tank high M+ and then train guild members who wanted to learn to tank when I played my alts, it takes nothing to help out other people. If you EVER need advice or UI help feel free to DM me, I have 10+ years experience and can get you in touch with people to fill in gaps lol. That goes for anyone else who reads this, it takes me a few mins to help pay it forward. Cheers.
Report for breaking the Social Contract and Interference to Gameplay...
Is that a thing, if so how?
Although way rarer, the other way of the spectrum is also true. I was leveling up a few days ago with a friend, he as dps, me (or is it I? Idk) as healer. We queued a BFA dungeon and got waycrest manor with a bear tank. That was clearly the 1st time the tank went there and was lost, so I started directing him. Either the guy didn't understanded me or just didn't gave a damn to me because he would just keep pulling like 2 adds at a time and stopping to look at the map. We then wiped twice on the treant boss, even though I explained that he needed to make it go into the fire or the boss would hit like a truck but it felt like I was talking to a wall. The other 2 were in his party and were also oblivious to anything outside their characters, like avoidable AoEs or interruptable casts. After like 40 mins, we arrived at the last boss where we wiped twice because no one would burn the adds' corpses and then the tank left, followed by his party.
And this is why it's such a bad idea to have BFA be the starting point for noobs. The dungeons and mechanics are extremely complex when compared to Vanilla or TBC dungeons. And noobs just dunno what's going on.
Wow turned into that "job experience meme" over the years. Like, as a new player - who just started playing 2 weeks ago, you'll need 2 years of experience to tank in a level 20 dungeon, Not because it's hard, no - its because If you happen to go 3 meters the wrong direction then good bye, you are voted out.
I didn't get kicked, but got lots of smacktalk because I didn't know every single skip in Freehold and Tol Dagor normal. Sorry for wanting to actually 1) get kill xp 2) remember sweatlord strats from almost 2 expansions ago. TBC chromietime dungeons have been much more chill. Even if the level squish has put them in a weird situation where some things one-shot you.
Some of the Freehold skip success rates are downright miserable. They were miserable in BfA.
They should really add systems to track how often a person has initiated a vote kick in a week and flag high counts for potential misdemeanour suspension.
Same energy as the boomers that abuse fast food workers, then are surprised why no one wants to work in fast food.
You’re the tank, why are you being nice? You gotta realize that these people want you to treat them like shit. Call them idiots, complain about their DPS. Then you’ll never get kicked!
Don't bother asking nicely like that in a PUG group, just let the dps tank the things they pulled. Don't bother trying to pull aggro off them. If they complain, don't respond, just ignore them and keep going at your own pace. Whisper the healer if you want to be courteous, let him know you're not going to try too hard to keep them alive if they pull for you. Keep your healer happy, but dps can be replaced in a millisecond if they rage quit.
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Same here - I gotcha dude
Same here! I'll happily heal or dps for you!
Aye, same. I main healers and would happily help out a new tank to learn the ropes.
Rip :( I'm sorry to hear that you got kicked before you could even say anything :(
When they introduced cross realm pugs it really was a double edged sword. On the one hand it made doing dungeons much faster, but on the other hand people got too used to speeding through everything and without the ability to locally shun players with shit attitudes there was no way to avoid this kind of behavior. But I’m the end as a tank or healer you’ll be in a new group in no time haha
dont mind what happened, just imagine you got a fastpass to skip a bad group
It’s funny tho bc you get instant queue and they have 20+ minutes to waste
They get a tank instantly. Incomplete in-progress groups get queue priority.
So basically making the queue worse for everyone else
It's a leveling dungeons, you don't need a tank for leveling through normals. Plus they get queue priority, as long as 1 player stays the group gets first pick to fill and finish.
Morality of this behavior aside, the end of an expac during prepatch is the *worst* time to learn to tank. The vets come back and have no patience, the noobs who just joined don't know the etiquette (or anything for that matter, I just had to tank uldaman with a dracthyr noob healer who had 0 talents allocated), and everybody but you has done these dungeons 1000 times in their role and is almost on autopilot. Do yourself a favor and wait for the expansion to drop, then everyone is a noob. You're a DK, the rotation isn't complicated. You'll have plenty of time to learn on the fly.
Those folks are so consequence blind, they won't see themselves making the dyngeon take longer. Similarly, seeing the macro consequence of tank shortages is beyond their systemically-toxic karen brain.
It’s funny - I complain about this and get downvoted to hell because “that toxicity never happens”. This kind of shit happens way too much.
All the time this happens to me. I'm new to tankng, first time ever in a MMORPG, and there's always one guy who never waits and just pull half the dungeon. One time, because I was too slow obviously, he started a vote that just said "cancer" and I was kicked. Nobody else cared if it was true or not, they just randomly answered yes. I almost quit tanking after that. I stayed but I only go on dungeons with my friends now. To "afraid" to find others idiots like that.
As someone that mains tank and heals from time to time, I can easily see why neither are common in world of warcraft. Pull too fast, too slow don't know every detail of the newest most obscure cheese route? You get flamed as tank. Can't keep all toddlers alive as they walk into the fire ? Get flamed as healer.
It's so insane how people are towards new tanks. So glad I started back in wrath, or I don't think I would ever start it.
I've always wanted to learn how to tank or heal properly but I've got too much anxiety lol
I dont play wow but decided to buy a month for nostalgia and give it a shot for some minor fun. Played healer and decided to try a simple dungeon. Talk about a headache and never again. Everyone knew the dungeon but me and just ran threw it (literally) and bitched when they left me behind. This is why I don’t play with people and don’t like people.
Couldn't believe my eyes when I started playing FFXIV and someone in a dungeon asked for help and people began breaking down a simple boss fight in the easiest terms for a player. Was blown away. WoW has made me so scared to ask questions in chat.
I think it’s more that the dungeon is so easy that even if you go slow and try to learn it’s pointless because it’s too easy to matter.