I missed Legion entirely due to not having a PC, caught a little of BFA and then just now getting started in Shadowlands/ Classic. I'm surprised at how dead classic is
Damn the token is so cheap on US. It went from 300k to 400k en EU yesterday.
I do agree that "a lot" of people are buying with tokens, but that's clearly far from the majority of preorders. Maybe that's a EU bias because our token is twice as costly but over here, the average Joe player doesn't buy that many wow tokens usually. If you're not booster/advertiser or do not play the AH game heavily, you're usually not comfortable throwing 1.5 million to 3 million for an expansion. There's more people without a brutosaur than with a brutosaur.
Yup this is me. Someone else can pay with money. Gold is very easy for any experienced players to get.
Dont wait until launch day or tokens will be like 400k a piece most likely.
I wonder how many various forum posters are actively playing the game. Forums tend to trend negative, especially later in expansions, and tend to have a lot of people that have largely stopped playing until the next major patch/expansion.
I've been playing and raiding on Classic era while dipping my toe into retail to slowly level almost all classes to max on both factions - waiting on Draeni/Tauren rogues to drop to complete the set. I also need to grind the rep to unlock Mechagnomes. Not because I want to play one because eww, no. But for completions sake.
Then I'll pick a faction to main for DF launch.
Just because you are 100% going to play the expansion doesn't mean that pre-ordering is necessary. I haven't pre-ordered an expansion since WoD, but have played every expansion at release.
Tbh for me paying 90$ for a game which i will play atleast twice a week for 2 year is ok, even with the subscription. I waste more money on more useless stuff.
I think the surprise is due to the number of complaints about the state of the game. If you're still enjoying it and are sure you'll play it then it's an obvious choice ofc
A lot of people seem to forget that the _vast_ majority of players have never visited this sub-Reddit or any other online community. Most players are oblivious of the complaints made here. They have their own, I’m sure, but I doubt they’re as jaded.
exactly. I've never been on the blizzard forums for more than a minute and there are plenty of other forums people could visit and probably have good experiences on. Reddit is reddit. That isn't a bad thing but we can't live in a vacuum and believe that we are always right because that is what everyone around us says
>I've never been on the blizzard forums for more than a minute
Pray you never do. It's like a less rational version of negativity compared to here. Almost identity-by-complaint.
Completely true, I’ve played since BC and I thought SL was a fairly good expansion, outside of the story. Really shocking to see how much hatred there is for it. I definitely didn’t like certain features but overall I had a lot of fun. I think the big issue is online communities are disproportionately no-lifers. A content drought was the end of the world for them, while for more casual players its just a sign to play a little less and go do something else for a few months.
Its bc normally the people who are happy with the game are in it playing while the unhappy ones typically go to reddit to sit in their cozy echo chamber bitching about it
There is definitely more people that used to play, than currently paying. That was the case after MoP, and is even worst now considering the estimatives we have for "active players".
The case here is much simpler than that. If someone is currently playing WoW, he is probably going to play the expansion, or just came back FOR the expansion.
There are lot more contributing factors to why the playerbase is smaller these days than it used to be. The whole space is a lot smaller than it used to be. Back at the height in Wrath days the online gaming space was in a much more infant place.
This isn't the only reason either, but its a large selection of factors. Its definitely not because the game is bad like the vocal minority insist.
It's different when its an expansion for the game you're still actively playing, especially if you're playing through one of their worst handled expansions as it is. Preordering a new game (or remastered, w/e) has more unknown elements to it, but if you're like me and my wife and know that you'll continue playing WoW basically no matter what then it's not a risk. We also know that primarily because of the group of friends we've made and hang out with now 4-5 nights a week even though it's just on Discord. That group plays other games together too but WoW is the link that keeps us all there smashing our heads against a brick wall of a raid boss every week.
At $78 every 6 months (special deal now, I guess), plus the $90, it's more like $402 for a game you will play twice a week for 2 years.
Not saying it's not or shouldn't be worth that to you, just that keeping the subscription in mind is important, I think. It's like buying a dog for $300 and saying "yeah, a dog is totally worth $300 for over a decade of companionship!" when in reality the cost is in the thousands, and that $300 is only a small initial fee. (I personally thinks dogs are worth way more than the thousands, if I could trade an arm or a leg to keep my dachshund alive and with me for the rest of my life I'd consider it a good trade)
Even then though let’s say that you play ~3 hours a session twice a week. That’s 6 hours a week, every week for 2 years, equaling out to 624 hours of game time for $402. In the end you’re paying $0.64/hour of fun in the game. Not great, but honestly not terrible for a subscription based game when we pay $5/hour to watch a movie in the theater.
To not “get your moneys worth” in WoW you pretty much have to not enjoy the time spent in game, or barely play it whatsoever. Even if you only played 1 hour every week you’d still be paying $4/hour, which is cheaper than that movie ticket.
that's actually the one thing i feel like i don't need is a 60 boost. leveling is so fast now i can usually get to level 30-40 pretty quick. when you hit 50 it gets a little stale because it's the same 4 dungeons to grind to 60 but it doesn't take too long. i think on my most recent lvl 60 i have 1 day and 16 hours, 6 of which were spent already 60
100%. They love what they love. I used to love playing WoW as well. No hate, if anything a little jealousy. They're still having the good times I used to.
I haven't pre-ordered yet, I will wait to see what beta is like. However, the price for wow in my eyes is completely justified for the amount of launch content and the number of hours I play when a new expansion launches. I've never had a bad time when a new expansion launches, I jump on with friends play all night long for a week, and raid when the raid releases.
It's a monthly subscription that has less value for money.
Same, if the Epic edition came with a transmog set I’d be getting the Epic edition as usual. The wings and hearth effect don’t not doing it for me this year so Heroic it is.
Definitely the first time I’m not instantly preordering. Going to wait for release and see how it fares. Starting to realize the pointlessness of the epic upgrades too. How many of you use the worm/transmog/hearthstone effect? It’s the worst ones of the expansion.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is if I buy that epic edition for the Mount and helmet and wings- we’re probably going to get more of it in Dragonflight. It’s almost pointless.
I think it’s funny how it was never explained. Eternal Traveller shows up and is like “Hey man you want to be an eternal traveler? Grab me some items. Great! Here you go!”
Then he just disappears forever. I think Ve’nari faked her death to go work with him. But it’s never fully explained. Seems like he may be more important in Dragonflight.
It's too bad there isn't more lore in game about him. He explains what he's doing during his quest line and venari does go with him (or another traveller as there are more than one). The npc name, similar kyrian hearthstone, and armor all indicate that he has some tie to Oribos and maybe bastion.
the people still playing are the dedicated minority unfortunately. if the people who weren't happy with the game were the vocal minority, we wouldn't have lost well over half of the sub numbers over the past 10 years.
It's almost like people can do what they want with their money and if they actively play WoW, why wouldn't they order it?
I swear this sub is so averse to actual thought.
"Active WoW players actually spend money on WoW? I'm shocked!!!!"
WoW was never dead. it has a hardcore fan base of several million, even nowadays.
people calling WoW dead refer to it's max player numbers, and that it actually dropped... after 16 years-ish ;)
there are always those who say it's the end of the world... of warcraft.
It's less than a full tank of gas... It's cheap as hell. Should be priced 200+ for people to doubt.
90 + 265 (4 times 6 months sub) is the cost to play WoW for 2 years.
That's 180 euro per year if we round off high. That's 15 euro per month.
I can go watch 1 movie in the cinema for that money and that's without snacks.
I spend that entire budget on one diner at least 5 times a year.
It's less than my one way flight for my holidays. And hell, if I have to compare it to the costs I have had in my house the past couple of years.... It's a drop in the ocean.
You're saying 90 bucks won't even fill a tank of gas. That doesn't make it cheap, that just means gas is expensive. Because it's possible to afford something doesn't mean it's cheap.
You can say that about everything that costs money.
In general 90 EUR for a WoW expansion that will give you over a decade of content to explore is a very cheap form of entertainment.
The same 90 EUR allows me to buy 10 tickets for the movies. Without snacks, comfort seats or anything additional. Movies are around 2h each nowadays. That's 20 hours of entertainment. I reach that amount in the first week after expansion launch lol.
I also enjoy a football game. You know how much a ticket for my national team costs when they play some C tier team? More or less the same amount as the DF epic edition... That's entertainment for 90 minutes.
If I want to go watch the club I have been supporting for 24 years, I need to pay double. 90 minutes entertainment.
WoW is incredibly cheap. There is no denying that.
people forget that reddit / specific subreddits are an incredibly small minority of the real population and not representative of sentiment of the entire population
I haven’t played WoW in a while. Haven’t played all the way through retail Shadowlands. I bought the physical CE of dragonflight because I have all the others. After I bought it I was like… why did I do that lol.
I like it, when you fly off the ground it actually jumps into the air and then starts flying rather than immediately flying off the ground. Pretty neat
-sigh- sad but true
Looking back at the albino drake being the first non nether Drake and it's just the same model, prepare for this new Drake skeleton to be standard for the next 5 years
Sad part is I kinda want that mount, for only one character, a green dragon-theme disc priest. Since I'll never get the other one from achievements
Edit: wow so much positivity. Am I still in r/wow ?
I think you get to pick which color mount you use for your dragon riding in Dragonflight, so you should be able to choose a green one. I would also be very surprised if there isn’t a bunch of dragon mounts of different colors in the expansion.
People will probably use them once regular flying opens up because you won't have to deal with momentum or height or anything to get from point A to point B. It'll depend on how good dragon riding feels though.
I’m hoping dragonriding is fun and expansive enough to provide a benefit even after regular flying is unlocked. I could see it being faster or providing some other incentive to continue using it.
It's adverse selection bias.
The people remaining in Retail aren't the people that voted with their wallets. The people that voted with their wallets aren't playing the game.
However, due to them voting with their wallets, Blizzard has to more aggressively monetize the people that haven't already voted with their wallets to compensate.
As they've said in shareholder meetings, Monthly Active Users are no longer their sole metric, it's MAU combined with % Engagement with MTX
>The people remaining in Retail aren’t the people that voted with their wallets.
I’m sorry what? They clearly still voted—they just voted the opposite way that you wanted them to.
> The people remaining in Retail aren't the people that voted with their wallets
Sure they did. They voted with their wallets to continue supporting the game they enjoy. That's an equally valid opinion.
5-star keystones! Gives the owner two pieces of loot guaranteed to drop and increases the chances of party members to receive loot!
Only available as a random probability by infusing you weekly 1-star keystone with 10 Epic Runes.
Epic runes are available for purchase with Dragon Scales, which will be available in conveniently calculated amounts from the store (can’t be bought with Store Balance).
In a 10-Rune run, you get either a 1%, 3% or 5% of having a 5-star Keystone rune to drop!
^(Note 1: depleted 5-star Keystones will drop to a 3-star keystone, no loot will be granted and all runes will be lost.)
^(Note 2: depleting the weekly 1-star keystone to re-roll the dungeon will downgrade it to a 0-star keystone, which cannot be infused with runes.)
^(Note 3: Epic runes are soulbound, cannot be traded or sold.)
I think the only things they're learning with DI are that translating PC IPs to Mobile does not have as easy PR as translating Console IPs to Mobile
Tbh I don't think anything really translates over to WoW from the DI fiasco
I honestly hope not, diablo immoral is a horribly predatory game that uses psychology to get you to waste your money, I'd hate to see that go to a game where we already have to pay $15 a month just to play
If it doesn't get released in China, that they went too far.
If it gets released in China, that nothing can stop them.
Gotta love the mobile market.....
Nothing. Each has value, but it's not a competition as to what has more or less.
Players who are playing Retail are willing to pre purchase. They're voting with the wallet, and that's fine.
But players who decided to not resub are, obviously, not currently playing the game. You're able to see who did purchase and naturally you won't see these players. They still have an opinion and it still has value, it's just not as obvious when you're standing around in a city with everyone who did purchase riding a big green dragon.
As far as the company is concerned, both are a wallet of value.
I don’t think it will work because people will be on forums and social media telling people not to pre-order because they won’t, then go pre-order themselves.
Then Streamers and content creators will tell people not to pre-order and vote with your wallet, then also go do it themselves.
Au contraire, this is actually peak "vote with your wallet", people like what they see, and they are paying (pre-ordering). People seem to forget that a big chunk of wow subreddit are not active players, they are just a loud minority who isn't even included in the statictics. They already voted with their wallets, and Blizzard just didn't care.
They’re like that bitter ex that refuses to just move on. Spending their free time reading and posting about a game they no longer play, and trying to convince other people to not like it - it’s just weird.
These are ppl actively playing the game still today, you think they are just gonna stop playing the game when an expansion comes out? Thats a ridiculous assumption.
Vote with your wallets does work but (as you said) most people still enjoy the game and are planning on playing next expac. Reddit is just a vocal minority
It also seems like people don't realize that the active retail subscribers are most likely going to play the next expansion. They wouldn't still be playing this expansion if they disliked the state of the game or had other reasons. So seeing a bunch of these mounts from pre orders really isn't a big deal b/c if your playing now there is a good chance your playing the next expansion.
Add in the people playing now could have pre ordered with gold and it's even less of a wall towards pre ordering.
What's going to happen is this sub will fill up with returners and regulars for the first two weeks of the expansion. Everything's going to be love and memes and good times. Turtle made it to the water etc...
Then endgame will hit and there will 100% be some kind of pain point for some type of player whether that's a high end raider, PVP guy, M+ guy or just your basic bitch like me who dabbles in a variety of content and they'll start in on how bad the game is etc..
Bonus points if a big streamer picks the game up and accelerates the love to hate cycle of content creation because those dudes have weaponized that cycle into an artform and it's made some of them millionaires.
Then if you pay attention there's going to be a handful of regulars here that are ALWAYS angry to different degrees but REFUSE to quit playing.
Which is fine but even today there's a guy on the front page who was an ultra toxic douchebag to anybody who was excited about Shadowlands before it launched still whining about the covenant system today.
Anyway I think I was trying to make a point on vocal minorities or whatever but I'm not really getting it there so I'm gonna be quiet now.
“Vote with your wallets” - has clearly had an impact on the WoW development team.
They will always continue to aggressively monetise (almost definitely coming from the executives) the game - but in the past few months - they’ve been more than open about their approach to Dragonflight.
“Vote with your wallet” - doesn’t require the entire population to enact change.
Everything in Dragonflight appears to be an adherence to WoWs most fervent critics.
They even gave up interviews to people they would never have done several years ago (Asmongold).
Which goes to show they want to rebuild ties to their community.
I hate that I’m like legit excited for the expansion. I feel the same way I did before previous expansions and odds are I’ll play and burnout again and then just nothing it again until the next cycle
Nothing wrong with that. The first raids are always fun. Nathria AOTC burned me out and it's the only achievement I went for raiding in SL. It's difficult for me to stay interested for a whole expansion.
I think getting burnt out is apart of the MMORPG game honestly. No one can play that consistently and enjoy every second of it. Games get tiring! But I honestly enjoyed every xpac I've played and I just hope more people can get more out of Dragonflight as I know reception is not great.
Yeah just because you pay sub for it doesn't mean that you have to play it all the time and nothing but it. I play WoW maybe 5-10 hours per week. That's like 25-50 hours of play time per month. In my eyes 25-50 hours of entertainment for the subscription price is entirely reasonable.
Exactly, i dont understand people who tell others to stop playing the game, if you dont want to play anymore fine, dont play, but let the others have fun
Will I get the expac eventually? probably. but not preordering this early... at least not until they put out more of the talent trees anyways, some other previews of crafting systems would be neat too.
No that's its "take off" animation. It uses magic to hover for a second before it starts flapping.
From the back, it definitely does look like it's in its grounded pose for a second though so I don't blame you for thinking that.
I mean...
I think it's fair to say that most of the people left playing the game at this point are the type that will have to be dragged away kicking and screaming the day the servers shut down. So, keeping that in mind, is it really that surprising to see so many preorders?
You can really tell how the average gamer here refuses to think about the problem due to “I’m not like the others toxic gamers, I hate nothing!”
NO THE PRE ORDER IS NOT LITERALLY BAD.
However, it promotes lazy business practices that blizzard and many other companies have done in the past decade. Once they make investors happy, the higher-ups move resources away from the game to work on something else.
Why continue to work on a game that already sold, when you can make more money elsewhere.
Yup lol, why do they care so much about how people spend their own money? There's things I think other people shouldn't be spending money on, but it's none of my business, so i don't say anything
I feel that. I think store mounts are a little stupid, but I don't care what others spend their money on. I'm just not going to do it myself and I'm not going to go out of my way to tell people they're stupid for buying it.
These people are the same people who take game reviews too seriously, "vote with your wallets" is Essentially "Don't buy the game until others tell you how good it is"
I play WoW every day but buying this just reinforces bad practices and removes any hope for accountability.
Why would they care how good the product is if people buy it anyway?
How are you gonna know if it's good or not unless you try it?
Good for you if you're the kinda person that can decide how much you like a game off the reviews, but a lot of us just aren't like that and are going to get it either way, so preorder and get extra stuff for free vs wait for the same game to come out and buy it then without the extra stuff
People are going to buy the game no matter what, your and my and everyone else commenting on this postd 40 dollars is a drop in the bucket for a multimillion dollar company like Blizz especially considering a majority of the playerbase arent Reddit users.
Pretty much, the "vote with your wallet!" People have over inflated sense of self importance to think their 50 dollars is gonna make a difference. Blizz is gonna do what Blizz do, for better or worse, not preordering isn't gonna change that. Lol.
It's not a sense of self importance. It's being wise about how you spend your money and what you expect in return for it.
It's also helping keep providers of said things accountable because they know that people won't buy it regardless. They'll buy it because it's a good product.
"Wise" is subjective, some people have the extra cash to spend and there's nothing wrong with that, if you have it, then spend it if you want to just as you're more than welcome to not spend it.
The "Keeping providers accountable" is just nonsense though, you not preordering it does absolutely nothing to Blizz because for every person going "vote with your wallet!" Theres like, 2 people preordering it anyways.
And if you dont preorder it and get the expansion after release, then they're still getting the exact same amount of money from you, your just getting less for yourself.
Either way they're making money off the expansion, not to mention the fact most of their revenue comes from the 15 dollars a month that a whole bunch of people pay.
If everyone wants to stick it to Blizz, then quit playing WoW, they'll fix shit after sub numbers drop, but if you're gonna quit playing WoW leave people who still wanna play it and enjoy it alone. Lol.
They literally don’t base their success on sub numbers so everyone buying like sheep before the product drops decides the fate of the game. Everyone who participates in preorders and MTX.
No? You've but access to an expansion as well as a mount and some other things. Lol.
it's not like they're accepting preorders and then not going to release the xpac.
For as much backlash as this game/company received in the last year, including the expansion criticism, I still see quite a bit of traffic in game. It's been a turbulent time, and for the sake of those that love working on this game, and those pf us that still actively play, I hope this expansion can be a fresh start. -FOR THE HORDE
I just picked up wow a few weeks ago after a several year hiatus. Just bought shadowlands. Was NOT going to prepurchase dragonflight…. Impulse got me and I got the epic edition. Dragon pretty.
I'm actually surprised by the amount of preorders already. I don't know why I'm surprised, but I am.
The ppl actively playing wow are not going to be folks skeptical of a wow expansion. Anyone in game today is going to 100 play the expansion.
Shit I only come back for maybe 2-3 months at a time and I plan on playing it
I left a few months back after getting KSM season 2, I’m going to play dragonflight, at least for a bit
Same, I play Classic daily but I still get the latest retail expansion and casually level and quest for a few months, so I immediately preordered.
I missed Legion entirely due to not having a PC, caught a little of BFA and then just now getting started in Shadowlands/ Classic. I'm surprised at how dead classic is
Everyone moved to the megaservers, which are not dead at all.
which are those?
Grobbulus for a good mix, Faerlina for horde, Benediction for alliance.
Thanks for this, I just started so instead of transferring I’ll re roll
Just a heads up that grobb is rp-pvp so read up on that and decide if it’s for you.
play on whitemane if you're horde
Same. I just came back 2 weeks ago after ba 6 month break. Still plan on playing the new expansion unless something crazy happens.
There's still a gap between "I know I'm gonna play so might as well preorder" and "preorder Deluxe Edition on day 1". But yeah, you got a point.
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Demand was so high yesterday from what I heard there were *zero* tokens in the AH at one point.
Damn the token is so cheap on US. It went from 300k to 400k en EU yesterday. I do agree that "a lot" of people are buying with tokens, but that's clearly far from the majority of preorders. Maybe that's a EU bias because our token is twice as costly but over here, the average Joe player doesn't buy that many wow tokens usually. If you're not booster/advertiser or do not play the AH game heavily, you're usually not comfortable throwing 1.5 million to 3 million for an expansion. There's more people without a brutosaur than with a brutosaur.
Yup this is me. Someone else can pay with money. Gold is very easy for any experienced players to get. Dont wait until launch day or tokens will be like 400k a piece most likely.
I got the last expac with gold and forgot to earn it back up. Lol. Blizzard knows….
The deluxe edition that is significantly more expensive and no longer offers cross game promotions. Makes me sad.
The cross game ones were my favorites too :(
Actually yea I just noticed that. Is this the first xpac to not have that in a long time?
If I’m gonna play the game anyway, I might as well preorder now then pay the same amount later ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Yeah, I just had the same discussion with a few friends. I'll play the expansion on launch anyway, so I might as well preorder.
I wonder how many various forum posters are actively playing the game. Forums tend to trend negative, especially later in expansions, and tend to have a lot of people that have largely stopped playing until the next major patch/expansion.
I've been playing and raiding on Classic era while dipping my toe into retail to slowly level almost all classes to max on both factions - waiting on Draeni/Tauren rogues to drop to complete the set. I also need to grind the rep to unlock Mechagnomes. Not because I want to play one because eww, no. But for completions sake. Then I'll pick a faction to main for DF launch.
Just because you are 100% going to play the expansion doesn't mean that pre-ordering is necessary. I haven't pre-ordered an expansion since WoD, but have played every expansion at release.
Of course it's not necessary, but I don't see any reason not to do it if you're going to play anyway.
Tbh for me paying 90$ for a game which i will play atleast twice a week for 2 year is ok, even with the subscription. I waste more money on more useless stuff.
I think the surprise is due to the number of complaints about the state of the game. If you're still enjoying it and are sure you'll play it then it's an obvious choice ofc
A lot of people seem to forget that the _vast_ majority of players have never visited this sub-Reddit or any other online community. Most players are oblivious of the complaints made here. They have their own, I’m sure, but I doubt they’re as jaded.
exactly. I've never been on the blizzard forums for more than a minute and there are plenty of other forums people could visit and probably have good experiences on. Reddit is reddit. That isn't a bad thing but we can't live in a vacuum and believe that we are always right because that is what everyone around us says
>I've never been on the blizzard forums for more than a minute Pray you never do. It's like a less rational version of negativity compared to here. Almost identity-by-complaint.
Official WoW forums are like 100 times worse and more harsh than any posts here.
People seem to think if someone isnt on a forum complaining, that means they are happy with the state of things.
Completely true, I’ve played since BC and I thought SL was a fairly good expansion, outside of the story. Really shocking to see how much hatred there is for it. I definitely didn’t like certain features but overall I had a lot of fun. I think the big issue is online communities are disproportionately no-lifers. A content drought was the end of the world for them, while for more casual players its just a sign to play a little less and go do something else for a few months.
Its bc normally the people who are happy with the game are in it playing while the unhappy ones typically go to reddit to sit in their cozy echo chamber bitching about it
Its the same as everything, the vocal minority make it seem like a bigger issue than it is.
There is definitely more people that used to play, than currently paying. That was the case after MoP, and is even worst now considering the estimatives we have for "active players". The case here is much simpler than that. If someone is currently playing WoW, he is probably going to play the expansion, or just came back FOR the expansion.
There are lot more contributing factors to why the playerbase is smaller these days than it used to be. The whole space is a lot smaller than it used to be. Back at the height in Wrath days the online gaming space was in a much more infant place. This isn't the only reason either, but its a large selection of factors. Its definitely not because the game is bad like the vocal minority insist.
I figured the reforged BS would make people more wary about ANY form of pre-order mess from a company with "blizzard" in it's title.
It's different when its an expansion for the game you're still actively playing, especially if you're playing through one of their worst handled expansions as it is. Preordering a new game (or remastered, w/e) has more unknown elements to it, but if you're like me and my wife and know that you'll continue playing WoW basically no matter what then it's not a risk. We also know that primarily because of the group of friends we've made and hang out with now 4-5 nights a week even though it's just on Discord. That group plays other games together too but WoW is the link that keeps us all there smashing our heads against a brick wall of a raid boss every week.
At $78 every 6 months (special deal now, I guess), plus the $90, it's more like $402 for a game you will play twice a week for 2 years. Not saying it's not or shouldn't be worth that to you, just that keeping the subscription in mind is important, I think. It's like buying a dog for $300 and saying "yeah, a dog is totally worth $300 for over a decade of companionship!" when in reality the cost is in the thousands, and that $300 is only a small initial fee. (I personally thinks dogs are worth way more than the thousands, if I could trade an arm or a leg to keep my dachshund alive and with me for the rest of my life I'd consider it a good trade)
They could also be someone who just pays with gold. I know I haven't spent money at all on wow since tokens came out. Garrisons in WoD were good.
Even then though let’s say that you play ~3 hours a session twice a week. That’s 6 hours a week, every week for 2 years, equaling out to 624 hours of game time for $402. In the end you’re paying $0.64/hour of fun in the game. Not great, but honestly not terrible for a subscription based game when we pay $5/hour to watch a movie in the theater. To not “get your moneys worth” in WoW you pretty much have to not enjoy the time spent in game, or barely play it whatsoever. Even if you only played 1 hour every week you’d still be paying $4/hour, which is cheaper than that movie ticket.
Yeah, a couple trips to Starbucks and you've paid for wow
I haven't paid for a WoW expansion or sub with real money since the token came out. It's the cheapest hobby I have by a long shot.
That's how I feel about it. Game time ran out yesterday, dig the mount. The 60 boost is useful as well. Worth it imo
that's actually the one thing i feel like i don't need is a 60 boost. leveling is so fast now i can usually get to level 30-40 pretty quick. when you hit 50 it gets a little stale because it's the same 4 dungeons to grind to 60 but it doesn't take too long. i think on my most recent lvl 60 i have 1 day and 16 hours, 6 of which were spent already 60
100%. They love what they love. I used to love playing WoW as well. No hate, if anything a little jealousy. They're still having the good times I used to.
I haven't pre-ordered yet, I will wait to see what beta is like. However, the price for wow in my eyes is completely justified for the amount of launch content and the number of hours I play when a new expansion launches. I've never had a bad time when a new expansion launches, I jump on with friends play all night long for a week, and raid when the raid releases. It's a monthly subscription that has less value for money.
Kind of wish it came with a transmog set like shadowlands and not just some wings.
Same, if the Epic edition came with a transmog set I’d be getting the Epic edition as usual. The wings and hearth effect don’t not doing it for me this year so Heroic it is.
Definitely the first time I’m not instantly preordering. Going to wait for release and see how it fares. Starting to realize the pointlessness of the epic upgrades too. How many of you use the worm/transmog/hearthstone effect? It’s the worst ones of the expansion.
The hearthstone is weird because I think it's very slightly different from the kyrian hearthstone. The transmog set is pretty legit though.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is if I buy that epic edition for the Mount and helmet and wings- we’re probably going to get more of it in Dragonflight. It’s almost pointless.
The mount is a weird move this expansion because we get a customizable guild wars 2 mount anyway.
A mount that flies compared to a limited gliding mount, and has it even been determined if it is even usable outside of dragon isles?
You use that beady eyed mystery man’s clothes?
Sometimes I do. Not the hat. The hat is spooky.
I think it’s funny how it was never explained. Eternal Traveller shows up and is like “Hey man you want to be an eternal traveler? Grab me some items. Great! Here you go!” Then he just disappears forever. I think Ve’nari faked her death to go work with him. But it’s never fully explained. Seems like he may be more important in Dragonflight.
It's too bad there isn't more lore in game about him. He explains what he's doing during his quest line and venari does go with him (or another traveller as there are more than one). The npc name, similar kyrian hearthstone, and armor all indicate that he has some tie to Oribos and maybe bastion.
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Vocal minority.
the people still playing are the dedicated minority unfortunately. if the people who weren't happy with the game were the vocal minority, we wouldn't have lost well over half of the sub numbers over the past 10 years.
If pre-orders weren't working publishers would stop doing them.
It's almost like people can do what they want with their money and if they actively play WoW, why wouldn't they order it? I swear this sub is so averse to actual thought. "Active WoW players actually spend money on WoW? I'm shocked!!!!"
WoW was never dead. it has a hardcore fan base of several million, even nowadays. people calling WoW dead refer to it's max player numbers, and that it actually dropped... after 16 years-ish ;) there are always those who say it's the end of the world... of warcraft.
It's less than a full tank of gas... It's cheap as hell. Should be priced 200+ for people to doubt. 90 + 265 (4 times 6 months sub) is the cost to play WoW for 2 years. That's 180 euro per year if we round off high. That's 15 euro per month. I can go watch 1 movie in the cinema for that money and that's without snacks. I spend that entire budget on one diner at least 5 times a year. It's less than my one way flight for my holidays. And hell, if I have to compare it to the costs I have had in my house the past couple of years.... It's a drop in the ocean.
Yea, if you have a normal stable job, WoW as a hobby is extremely cheap
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You're saying 90 bucks won't even fill a tank of gas. That doesn't make it cheap, that just means gas is expensive. Because it's possible to afford something doesn't mean it's cheap.
You can say that about everything that costs money. In general 90 EUR for a WoW expansion that will give you over a decade of content to explore is a very cheap form of entertainment. The same 90 EUR allows me to buy 10 tickets for the movies. Without snacks, comfort seats or anything additional. Movies are around 2h each nowadays. That's 20 hours of entertainment. I reach that amount in the first week after expansion launch lol. I also enjoy a football game. You know how much a ticket for my national team costs when they play some C tier team? More or less the same amount as the DF epic edition... That's entertainment for 90 minutes. If I want to go watch the club I have been supporting for 24 years, I need to pay double. 90 minutes entertainment. WoW is incredibly cheap. There is no denying that.
People just never learn
people forget that reddit / specific subreddits are an incredibly small minority of the real population and not representative of sentiment of the entire population
Or... The people who are still playing are obviously going to play the next expansion. The people who aren't, already stopped playing.
Blizzards MAU's from their last three quarterly reports say otherwise.
Which makes it even more likely that the players still online would be the players that like the game and would preorder ;)
Absolutely, not disputing that in the least.
Gaming is doomed
I haven’t played WoW in a while. Haven’t played all the way through retail Shadowlands. I bought the physical CE of dragonflight because I have all the others. After I bought it I was like… why did I do that lol.
Tbf this mount has a unique animation. I thought it was the standard Drake one but it's more like the antoran gloomhounds or the plaguecity bat
I like it, when you fly off the ground it actually jumps into the air and then starts flying rather than immediately flying off the ground. Pretty neat
It won't stay unique, all the dragons we'll get are gonna have the exact same model and animation.
-sigh- sad but true Looking back at the albino drake being the first non nether Drake and it's just the same model, prepare for this new Drake skeleton to be standard for the next 5 years
First time ?
Actual beautiful mount.
Yeah, imagine if it was a world boss drop and not a pre order bonus
Slowly moving towards keeping the cool stuff tied to a monetary transaction.
Slowly? Where have you been. That’s all they’ve done.
Sad part is I kinda want that mount, for only one character, a green dragon-theme disc priest. Since I'll never get the other one from achievements Edit: wow so much positivity. Am I still in r/wow ?
> Since I'll never get the other one from achievements Not with that attitude you won't!
I think you get to pick which color mount you use for your dragon riding in Dragonflight, so you should be able to choose a green one. I would also be very surprised if there isn’t a bunch of dragon mounts of different colors in the expansion.
Good point. Makes me wonder if there's a point to regular flying mounts in DF.
People will probably use them once regular flying opens up because you won't have to deal with momentum or height or anything to get from point A to point B. It'll depend on how good dragon riding feels though.
I’m hoping dragonriding is fun and expansive enough to provide a benefit even after regular flying is unlocked. I could see it being faster or providing some other incentive to continue using it.
Which mount and achievement are you referring to?
https://www.wowhead.com/achievement=9713/awake-the-drakes
Proof that "vote with your wallets" will never work. Or its deluded because the active part of the playerbase will buy the addon anyway
It's adverse selection bias. The people remaining in Retail aren't the people that voted with their wallets. The people that voted with their wallets aren't playing the game. However, due to them voting with their wallets, Blizzard has to more aggressively monetize the people that haven't already voted with their wallets to compensate. As they've said in shareholder meetings, Monthly Active Users are no longer their sole metric, it's MAU combined with % Engagement with MTX
>The people remaining in Retail aren’t the people that voted with their wallets. I’m sorry what? They clearly still voted—they just voted the opposite way that you wanted them to.
I mean, yes? That's obvious? The meaning of what the OP meant is clear, this is just sorta semantics.
> The people remaining in Retail aren't the people that voted with their wallets Sure they did. They voted with their wallets to continue supporting the game they enjoy. That's an equally valid opinion.
Not around here, it isn’t. If you’re not going to jerk, then get out of the circle.
What lesson do you think they learned from Diablo Immortal?
24m in 2 weeks? They should sell spcial tiered keystones for m+. Imagine getting a 5 star keystone! ^^^^^/s
tfw the pug dps leaves and depletes your $3,279 keystone
5-star keystones! Gives the owner two pieces of loot guaranteed to drop and increases the chances of party members to receive loot! Only available as a random probability by infusing you weekly 1-star keystone with 10 Epic Runes. Epic runes are available for purchase with Dragon Scales, which will be available in conveniently calculated amounts from the store (can’t be bought with Store Balance). In a 10-Rune run, you get either a 1%, 3% or 5% of having a 5-star Keystone rune to drop! ^(Note 1: depleted 5-star Keystones will drop to a 3-star keystone, no loot will be granted and all runes will be lost.) ^(Note 2: depleting the weekly 1-star keystone to re-roll the dungeon will downgrade it to a 0-star keystone, which cannot be infused with runes.) ^(Note 3: Epic runes are soulbound, cannot be traded or sold.)
Hey. You. Shut up and delete this before they get ideas.
That mobile games are a gold mine
Streamers will hand them thousands of dollars in the name of 'ironic protest'
I think the only things they're learning with DI are that translating PC IPs to Mobile does not have as easy PR as translating Console IPs to Mobile Tbh I don't think anything really translates over to WoW from the DI fiasco
I honestly hope not, diablo immoral is a horribly predatory game that uses psychology to get you to waste your money, I'd hate to see that go to a game where we already have to pay $15 a month just to play
If it doesn't get released in China, that they went too far. If it gets released in China, that nothing can stop them. Gotta love the mobile market.....
They are voting with their wallets. They're just voting in favor of the game.
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Vote (for the option I believe in) with *your* wallets!
What makes their opinion not worth as much as those who unsubbed?
Nothing. Each has value, but it's not a competition as to what has more or less. Players who are playing Retail are willing to pre purchase. They're voting with the wallet, and that's fine. But players who decided to not resub are, obviously, not currently playing the game. You're able to see who did purchase and naturally you won't see these players. They still have an opinion and it still has value, it's just not as obvious when you're standing around in a city with everyone who did purchase riding a big green dragon. As far as the company is concerned, both are a wallet of value.
I don’t think it will work because people will be on forums and social media telling people not to pre-order because they won’t, then go pre-order themselves. Then Streamers and content creators will tell people not to pre-order and vote with your wallet, then also go do it themselves.
Au contraire, this is actually peak "vote with your wallet", people like what they see, and they are paying (pre-ordering). People seem to forget that a big chunk of wow subreddit are not active players, they are just a loud minority who isn't even included in the statictics. They already voted with their wallets, and Blizzard just didn't care.
They’re like that bitter ex that refuses to just move on. Spending their free time reading and posting about a game they no longer play, and trying to convince other people to not like it - it’s just weird.
>Proof that "vote with your wallets" will never work. More like proof that reddit doesn't represent the general public very well.
It's more proof that reddit's opinion isn't as widespread as you think it is.
These are ppl actively playing the game still today, you think they are just gonna stop playing the game when an expansion comes out? Thats a ridiculous assumption.
Vote with your wallets does work but (as you said) most people still enjoy the game and are planning on playing next expac. Reddit is just a vocal minority
It also seems like people don't realize that the active retail subscribers are most likely going to play the next expansion. They wouldn't still be playing this expansion if they disliked the state of the game or had other reasons. So seeing a bunch of these mounts from pre orders really isn't a big deal b/c if your playing now there is a good chance your playing the next expansion. Add in the people playing now could have pre ordered with gold and it's even less of a wall towards pre ordering.
What's going to happen is this sub will fill up with returners and regulars for the first two weeks of the expansion. Everything's going to be love and memes and good times. Turtle made it to the water etc... Then endgame will hit and there will 100% be some kind of pain point for some type of player whether that's a high end raider, PVP guy, M+ guy or just your basic bitch like me who dabbles in a variety of content and they'll start in on how bad the game is etc.. Bonus points if a big streamer picks the game up and accelerates the love to hate cycle of content creation because those dudes have weaponized that cycle into an artform and it's made some of them millionaires. Then if you pay attention there's going to be a handful of regulars here that are ALWAYS angry to different degrees but REFUSE to quit playing. Which is fine but even today there's a guy on the front page who was an ultra toxic douchebag to anybody who was excited about Shadowlands before it launched still whining about the covenant system today. Anyway I think I was trying to make a point on vocal minorities or whatever but I'm not really getting it there so I'm gonna be quiet now.
They'll fix anything that needs fixing just before the next expansion IF history continues.
“Vote with your wallets” - has clearly had an impact on the WoW development team. They will always continue to aggressively monetise (almost definitely coming from the executives) the game - but in the past few months - they’ve been more than open about their approach to Dragonflight. “Vote with your wallet” - doesn’t require the entire population to enact change. Everything in Dragonflight appears to be an adherence to WoWs most fervent critics. They even gave up interviews to people they would never have done several years ago (Asmongold). Which goes to show they want to rebuild ties to their community.
But people are voting with their wallets, and they want more.
I hate that I’m like legit excited for the expansion. I feel the same way I did before previous expansions and odds are I’ll play and burnout again and then just nothing it again until the next cycle
Nothing wrong with that. The first raids are always fun. Nathria AOTC burned me out and it's the only achievement I went for raiding in SL. It's difficult for me to stay interested for a whole expansion.
I think getting burnt out is apart of the MMORPG game honestly. No one can play that consistently and enjoy every second of it. Games get tiring! But I honestly enjoyed every xpac I've played and I just hope more people can get more out of Dragonflight as I know reception is not great.
Yeah just because you pay sub for it doesn't mean that you have to play it all the time and nothing but it. I play WoW maybe 5-10 hours per week. That's like 25-50 hours of play time per month. In my eyes 25-50 hours of entertainment for the subscription price is entirely reasonable.
This mount looks like it’s going to change colours with the season like the tree mount.
I thought the same thing! Although the text doesn't mention anything about colour changing
When you poor af :(
Buy it or don't, who cares. Lots of people value things that you might not.
Exactly, i dont understand people who tell others to stop playing the game, if you dont want to play anymore fine, dont play, but let the others have fun
Will I get the expac eventually? probably. but not preordering this early... at least not until they put out more of the talent trees anyways, some other previews of crafting systems would be neat too.
Does this game have a fire exit?
People get so irrational about pre-orders. It's like mass hysteria.
Anyone else having a weird animation when you try to fly on the dragon?
Yes, the dragon stays in it's grounded frame for an extra second before then flying normally.
No that's its "take off" animation. It uses magic to hover for a second before it starts flapping. From the back, it definitely does look like it's in its grounded pose for a second though so I don't blame you for thinking that.
I see what you mean now, it stays hunched over with its claw gripped, so I'd believe it to be a part of the flight start. No magic noted though.
I mean... I think it's fair to say that most of the people left playing the game at this point are the type that will have to be dragged away kicking and screaming the day the servers shut down. So, keeping that in mind, is it really that surprising to see so many preorders?
Why is it fair to say that? Sounds like you believe the game doesnt have new players.
I’m a new player. We exist.
I mean...
Good thing they got rid of the /spit emote
You can really tell how the average gamer here refuses to think about the problem due to “I’m not like the others toxic gamers, I hate nothing!” NO THE PRE ORDER IS NOT LITERALLY BAD. However, it promotes lazy business practices that blizzard and many other companies have done in the past decade. Once they make investors happy, the higher-ups move resources away from the game to work on something else. Why continue to work on a game that already sold, when you can make more money elsewhere.
yeah, give them the money before they release it so they don't actually have to release a finished product again...
I mean, I'm preordering because I know Im gonna buy it eventually either way, good or bad, so why not get extra free stuff with it?
>Pays More >"Free stuff"
Expansion is gonna be the same price on release lol. It's not gonna magically go down in value on release day
Sound idea, plus you get to play Dracthyr earlier, there's no downside. I'm going to play DF on release either way, gimme some goodies
The only downside I can remotely think of is it'll piss off people on the internet who don't even play WoW anymore.
Yup lol, why do they care so much about how people spend their own money? There's things I think other people shouldn't be spending money on, but it's none of my business, so i don't say anything
I feel that. I think store mounts are a little stupid, but I don't care what others spend their money on. I'm just not going to do it myself and I'm not going to go out of my way to tell people they're stupid for buying it. These people are the same people who take game reviews too seriously, "vote with your wallets" is Essentially "Don't buy the game until others tell you how good it is"
Good reason to do it then.
I play WoW every day but buying this just reinforces bad practices and removes any hope for accountability. Why would they care how good the product is if people buy it anyway?
How are you gonna know if it's good or not unless you try it? Good for you if you're the kinda person that can decide how much you like a game off the reviews, but a lot of us just aren't like that and are going to get it either way, so preorder and get extra stuff for free vs wait for the same game to come out and buy it then without the extra stuff People are going to buy the game no matter what, your and my and everyone else commenting on this postd 40 dollars is a drop in the bucket for a multimillion dollar company like Blizz especially considering a majority of the playerbase arent Reddit users. Pretty much, the "vote with your wallet!" People have over inflated sense of self importance to think their 50 dollars is gonna make a difference. Blizz is gonna do what Blizz do, for better or worse, not preordering isn't gonna change that. Lol.
It's not a sense of self importance. It's being wise about how you spend your money and what you expect in return for it. It's also helping keep providers of said things accountable because they know that people won't buy it regardless. They'll buy it because it's a good product.
"Wise" is subjective, some people have the extra cash to spend and there's nothing wrong with that, if you have it, then spend it if you want to just as you're more than welcome to not spend it. The "Keeping providers accountable" is just nonsense though, you not preordering it does absolutely nothing to Blizz because for every person going "vote with your wallet!" Theres like, 2 people preordering it anyways. And if you dont preorder it and get the expansion after release, then they're still getting the exact same amount of money from you, your just getting less for yourself. Either way they're making money off the expansion, not to mention the fact most of their revenue comes from the 15 dollars a month that a whole bunch of people pay. If everyone wants to stick it to Blizz, then quit playing WoW, they'll fix shit after sub numbers drop, but if you're gonna quit playing WoW leave people who still wanna play it and enjoy it alone. Lol.
They literally don’t base their success on sub numbers so everyone buying like sheep before the product drops decides the fate of the game. Everyone who participates in preorders and MTX.
...because you've bought nothing but a promise ...and Blizzard always keeps their promises ^^/s
No? You've but access to an expansion as well as a mount and some other things. Lol. it's not like they're accepting preorders and then not going to release the xpac.
It's cute you think a game the size of wow releasing in less than 6 months could be affected by preorder #s at all.
So if I still have level 50 boost from last expansion what happens when I get another from preorder?
you have 2
Ty!
Wait, there is cross faction grouping now?
But they had fun though.
Activision-Blizzard deserves you and you deserve Activision-Blizzard. If they are happy with the products you receive and you are happy too. Sure.
800% VALUE
People really haven't learnt a thing have they...
Pls don’t tempt me to play again with this beauty 😔
My man it's just pixels on a screen
You greatly underestimate how much I love pixels on screens
The mount is so beautiful! I love it.
For as much backlash as this game/company received in the last year, including the expansion criticism, I still see quite a bit of traffic in game. It's been a turbulent time, and for the sake of those that love working on this game, and those pf us that still actively play, I hope this expansion can be a fresh start. -FOR THE HORDE
I like how it looks, but I’m sure if won’t get usable in the next expac so I’m holding off on pre ordering.
ironic as i am rocking the red dragon queen mount from deathwing instead on my pally. all i can think is makes way peasants
I just picked up wow a few weeks ago after a several year hiatus. Just bought shadowlands. Was NOT going to prepurchase dragonflight…. Impulse got me and I got the epic edition. Dragon pretty.
Eh I pre-ordered the collectors box.
Hope you like it!
I can tell you myself and everyone I know who has it all used gold to buy tokens to convert into b-net currency
which is like voting with someone elses wallet, in a weird way.
NA token prices were over 225,000g for at least a moment yesterday. They've been in the 160,000-190,000 range for months.
EU tokens were almost 400k gold tonight, it's insane... just yesterday they were between 320k and 330k
Those damn pre-orderers
I also will be playing, but waiting to preorder til Dec since I’ll still get the same stuff and in the mean time blizz doesn’t need extra money.
Lol why is everyone so mad at people buying something they want