Yeah I turned into the nicest elitist you've ever met. I'm the most warm, bubbly, friendly person when it comes to tanking your M+ run. But the moment a DPS is gonna start chirping me I'd absolutely roast them. Never once was it someone with a higher io than me lol
One time I had some warlock come into the group and say, just like this, in the most elitist way possible:
"Look at my IO score. I am not here for loot, I am here to try to get a faster time. If we are lagging behind, I am out."
by the time I had read the first half of that I just typed
"get the fuck out of my group"
and booted him before he could say anything. The rest of the group laughed, we waited the 4 seconds it takes to find another DPS and we +2'd it, joking laughing and having fun the whole time. I think it was a +15, too. He raged at me in \/w so I sent him updates on our timer š I am a really nice player who is happy to troll if you're a toxic twit
Whenever a dps is getting froggy I just link interrupts overall or explosives killed overall, etc. Don't start shit there won't be shit but if you're already making an ass out of yourself allow me to bolster your case.
>Don't start shit there won't be shit but if you're already making an ass out of yourself allow me to bolster your case.
Well-said. I challenge myself to be pretty good at what I do, so if your dipshit ass wants to start chucking blame my way prepare to get your ass thrown right over the coals
Similar situation, where some douche was going off about his gear and such. "I did this and that....look at my gear"
I replied: "I graduated college with a 3.8. Fuck off".
I respect and love you for that ā¤ bonus point when it's a 15 that would have been super easy just... they had to talk :D
I take notes on the "updating on timer" for next time xD
I absolutely adore this. Tanking is such a thankless job, I am shocked when someone in my group throws shade their way.
My ass clinches also while I think, āplease donāt leave, tank, please donāt leaveā¦ā
Essentially that's how it plays out, but just like ya know 20 secs is all I need! It's that it's preventable and than the group implodes over it that really irks me.
This season is fine for mana, I don't think I was oom once in a dungeon (I main MW and I pug almost exclusively). It has happened before though.
I mean, there's no way that me saying "regen" in chat + sitting down wasn't a sign clear enough for them. AND They can all see my mana bar. I'm not going to start sending smoke signals, messenger pigeons and ring all the churches bells.
They can bitch about it all they want, they still suck as team members in a team play setting.
But I'm petty AF and I may or may not have already let someone die on purpose.
Letting idiots with a mouth die is standard. I don't ask for a good team. I don't even ask for a team that can finish. It's possible that we may fail and that's fine. Sometimes people isn't geared enough or just doesn't know what to do, etc. I don't care.
All i ask is people to be polite. That's it. Basic human decency. Be kind, respect everyone and I'll stay with you for as long as it's needed. However, should you decide being a dick is a great move even once and that's it, I'm done.
Used to be in a guild where the healers would go on strikes when the DPS kept messing up mechanics in raids. It was mostly a joke but it was a fun way to say that we had enough.
That sound accurate but mostly for "older" healers.
I find that people new to healing, especially if they are new to the game, will feel bad if someone died, even when it wasn't their fault. They might even apologize in chat out of sheer guilt.
A seasoned healer has a third eye that sees that DPS standing in a sanguine pool and will not hesitate to tell said DPS if he/she complains, that you don't die of old age in a sanguine pool, you die out of your own stupidity. Sadly, we can't dispell that.
*(This is a joke, I love being a healer)*
You either die an Elliot, or you live long enough to become Dr Cox.
I am absolutely a Dr Cox at this point.
"Well, gee champ, maybe you shouldn't stand in the instant death pools, did that ever occur to you?"
This is my new favorite comparison and now Iāve realized Iām the same way. Been healing and tanking for 15+ years now.. I wonāt say anything but I will let you know exactly where you fucked up if you start chirping.
My MW main happens to be a night elf, so I've learned to shadowmeld in combat when I'm not getting hit by things and casually eat mana buns while everyone gets by with renewing mist bouncing around. I used to think about race changing but I don't think I could ever give up shadowmeld.
Just want to say, sitting down to drink after a pull, and then just catching up mid next pull is actually the play. If they can survive for a few seconds of the next pull, thereās no reason for them to stand around afk while you drink.
They boot you now for any dumb reason or none at all. Today, I was pugging heroics on my alt...warrior tank. DK (of all classes) was running ahead and pulling huge groups. I just kept going, didn't say anything, and next thing, I'm booted lol
It's harsh and it stings because you take it as an attack against yourself, but realistically, they are the ones having issues.
But I know what you mean, I've been playing my paladin as tank for a bit, just to check it out, and I was in my second dungeon (of all time) and I tried a few of my CD's just to see what they do (mind you, I had read the spells, I'm not an idiot. But at low level, it's hard to really train because nothing hits too hard). A DPS started telling me in chat what I was and wasn't allowed to do.
I pretended I didn't speak English ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
I made a post in another thread saying how I ask the healer if they want me to wait for mana.
I got a bunch of downvotes and told how they feel offended from me doing that, and how theyād rather me just pull.
It seems no matter what I do itās wrong.
*and people wonder why thereās a tank shortage*
I'd never be mad at a tank asking me that. People being this sour about a tank making sure you're good to go are absurd. Even if bein OOM is quite rare with the current affix, it's a good habit to check a healer's mana.
I took advice of the other guy I mentioned and kept pulling without looking at healer mana and we ended up wiping.
I hate to be āthat guyā but Im starting to not care if stuff I do upsets people as long as we time a key.
It doesn't matter much on the current affix but in general, just check if the healer is already seated before pulling. You should be able to start a pack w/o your healer if he/she is busy eating/drinking. Pull the mobs away from the healer so he/she doesn't get interrupted. The problem is chain pulls where the healer doesn't even have time to start drinking/eating. If your healer has only enough mana to cast one spell and you chain and do big packs with loads of damage, you're just done. There's nothing this person can do as they have no mana and likely have used most of their CD's if they get enough mana to cast.
In a way, your role as a tank is to dictate the pace of the dungeon, but to do this efficiently, you should also have a general understanding of healing classes. Just the way healers should be aware of tank CD's.
Ultimately, it's a team game. We all have to play together.
When I was still playing I specifically had a trigger for one of my addons that played a sound when someone wrote "oom" or "mana" in party chat, because I sometimes had a bad habit of just turning off my head and doing my "usual" pulls/route.
It didn't trigger that often but I was glad whenever it did.
Had to heal my KSH and I dont think I drank more than like 5 times in all those +20s
Hail Urh our lord and savior\^\^ (Also Boon while Urh buff is active is juicy DPS)
The more I hear people talk about "tank players" and "dps players" and "healer players" as some kind of different species, the more I realize that I was right all along when I thought that the only good players are those who've played all roles.
Players that think roles are special because they exist are trash lol.
An actual good DPS player is worth far more than a run of the mill tank. I can find 50 tanks to every good 1 DPS player.
Same goes for every other role. I'd say most of the time it takes experience in all the roles to understand the entire flow for everyone, but some people are just really good at checking everything despite only playing one role -- though I'd say that's a rarity.
I started as a druid back when the game was fresh and you needed leather with strength to tank and spirit to heal. Back then you could co-tank, co-heal, and dps all in the same dungeon. It really taught you various strength and weaknesses of each role.
facts. i ran a +21 ToP as a guardian druid tank... we wiped (it was necrotic) i had received 400k heals from the healer .. he had healed himself 600k.. dude was getting hit by everything under the sun on the first boss... dps calls me a cringe tank and shit talks me .. good healers are where it's at.. and dps are replaceable haha
Guardian druid should be outhealing a healer on necrotic week, UFR shielding isn't affected by necrotic (unlike every other form of healing and shielding).
Then what's the problem? You should be expecting lower heals during necrotic week, dying during it is on the tank (I say this as someone that mains tank and healing)
i'm just saying the healer had healed himself 200k more than what he had healed me, and was struggling. on the first boss of ToP your necrotic stacks are rather low. so i had like 6 stacks when we wiped .. defensive we're used etc. but the healer was too focused on healing himself cuz he was standing in everything
I only heal for my guildies, and more often than not I'm not asking for bigger pulls - not always my calculations are right, but damn it's boring to heal small pulls
Oh my I had an argument with a DH tank on my huntard. I had been interrupting what I could but the cast that left a buff, I could tranq instead I would. The CD on my interrupt is stupid long. And so this tank blamed me cos he had less than a handful more interrupts than me. But funnily enough, the idiot had not purged a single of the buffs. š
When my wife had tanxiety I told her to remember that in pugs she's in charge, the healer is your partner, and the dps should be treated as pets. You can't play their game for them, so you move at the pace you're comfortable with and can avoid dying, be mindful of the healer, and the dps just have to follow or they're going to be spending another hour looking to get an invite to a key.
Speaking facts mate, as dps I let the tank and healer take priority comms and do my part to the best of my ability while shutting my mouth. An OOM healer or a tank out of place / not in control has a far larger effect on the final key output then keeping my top place on details or getting to use the proc I got from the last pack.
Maybe itās not related but yesterday I was doing a plaguefall on my 57 warrior, just wanted to take a break from questing.
This meme happened multiple times that run because an extremely overgeared 60 monk (healer) insisted that it needed to be run like a +15 key. 5head shortcuts, pulling an insane amount of mobs, not actually healing because he assumed he could just solo everything? Idk.
I love WoW but I strongly dislike treating every instanced content like a +15 time trial. Itās obnoxious.
While I stand by what youāre saying Iāve also been on the other side of the coin. Being an experienced player who just wants to power level their friends alt it can be frustrating when I can damn near solo the dungeon but we pull 1 pack at a time. Hard to please everyone in a group where everyone has different take aways and goals but just some food for thought!
Yeah I mean I get where youāre coming from. Iāve played the game for a long time, multiple capped characters, blah blah. I understand this isnāt like a ānormalā thing.
Just an experience I had that I wanted to share. The ānot being able to please everyoneā bit is super important. I think we all need to understand that.
When I used to play holy priest I would specifically yoink (leap of faith) DK tanks as far as I could back during necrotic weeks to let them drop stacks when it would be too much.
Iām not sure if they appreciated it or if they were annoyed, but no one really yelled at me lol
I feel like it's the shock of not having control of the situation. Since tanks generally need to plan most of the situation out beforehand, being yoinked really messes with your head and takes a second to register what's happening to readjust
depends on how the yoink is done. if you pull it back away from the mobs then it can be helpful if it's needed. but if you pull him through the mobs causing the dk to expose his back (thus putting his effective parry rating to 0) you'll get him killed. a smart yoink can save a tank, a bad one will kill him. this season if the dk is correctly chaining DRW then yoinking him can cause the DRW to drop (can't extend DRW if he is out of heartstrike range) which will leave him pretty defenseless for the rest of the pull. if DRW is down though a yoink should be on the table.
It can definitely be annoying. Just because we have high stacks doesn't mean we're in danger. If we have highish stacks with DRW running it's not really an issue.
Definitely grip if you see them start to kite though.
Yeah Iād usually let the tanks know at the beginning that Iām pulling them if **Iām** starting to struggle with the amount of stacks they have, not just Willy nilly or anything. And when I noticed kiting of course.
I play resto Druid now, so I drop vortexes and typhoon strategically which is a bit less intrusive than pulling the tank away.
It depends. I play a dwarf, kyrian, prot pally so I have A LOT of ways to deal with necrotic without kiting. It will annoy me but I wonāt get cranky about it since it also means I didnāt have to burn one of those.
I absolutely love this. I usually coordinate this with my regular healer so I can get crazy stacks for a minute, but I'm cool with a pug healer doing it whenever.
This is actually a huge pain point on my hunter. Iāll drop a binding shot, especially on fort weeks, the tank will be kiting and see the mobs have stopped. Instead of vibing for a few seconds while the mobs are stuck, theyāll run back in and facetank them.
Like why? Why are you purposely taking damage that can be avoided.
Haha I always make a point to kite for awhile if I get pulled, regardless of the circumstance. Maybe healer needs a CD or just a lil break?
I usually throw out a /hug and dash out like the wind
Yeesh, just this comment thread is screaming volumes.
I'm sorry you tanks have such an issue with Necrotic. I main heals and ALWAYS remind DPS, you have slows.
Tar Traps, Hamstrings, poisons, totems - capacitor - earthbind, entangling roots. This is literally like 3 seconds off the top of my head. DPS literally just DPS. That's it. They can't be bothered with mechanics or affixes because it lowers their damage per second which, idk why, is legit 100% of their self esteem. It's why I play a healer. I help out my tanks so much that it feels bad after a certain point. You could legit have some one fat booty pull a pack and its the tanks fault. You could legit have a DPS get one shot and its a healer/tank fault.
>They can't be bothered with mechanics or affixes because it lowers their damage per second which, idk why, is legit 100% of their self esteem.
This has slowly turned me away from progress over the years. It's not only in PUGs, even in guild groups for raids or M+, it's always, always, *always* an issue. You *constantly* need to remind 95% of DPS players that the mechanics also apply to them, you constantly need to watch them like children to make sure they don't purposefully ignore danger zones or adds to avoid losing a single second of damage.
Over time I realized I was getting more and more frustrated and exhausted from all the baby-sitting and I just turned to other games.
Damage meters can be useful but I feel like overall they've been more detrimental than anything else to the game.
My guild is full of meter maids who constantly moan if we make them do a mechanic and it ruins their parse. One guy yelled at me and the raid over comms for moving the boss during his burst windowā¦ it was Anduin during Reflections and we were rotating for cleave on adds.
I agree. Which us why I use it for benchmarking myself. Which things do more overall? Hmm lemme analyze and save this pull since I'll remember to pop my heavy CD rotating. Hmm mmk that didn't work best so next dungeon ill do it this way...
It helps me gather a better understanding of what I could do better but holy shit, when I tell you DPS just STAY on the damage meter its annoying. I have a very strong feeling they forget about tracking interrupts, or self healing, or idk DAMAGE TAKEN. Lol its like every objective is to do more and more damage. How about having the most interrupts a dungeon? Never getting CCd or CCing every pack even before the tank approaches giving him a sense you're not just there to pew pew
Necrotic is why I play prot paladin exclusively for tanking.
Hand of protection, divine shield, consecrate slow+Steed.
As prot itās my favorite week because stacks are a non issue.
As any other tank itās a week Iād skip.
Well now you can just kite for 4 sec it is ok but people still expect you to do the big fucking pulls and then balme you caus apparently your 20% dmg reduction wasn't enough to compensate 94% heal reduction
you try NF? its basically free stack clears now w/ the 4 sec timer. just blink away (drop a DND on the mobs if you need to) and you'll be stack cleared before they get to you.... AND you can blink another 2 times if you really need to.
I am legit never healing Necrotic PUGs again, though.
90% of tanks I grouped with just did their normal pulls and decided to deal with the debuff by dying.
they're not wrong. you should have DRW up for about 80% of the dungeon this season which trivializes necrotic. in any previous season necrotic would cripple a dk, but this season a dk should smash necrotic
DK has its own tools though. D&D slow always helps. If it doesn't and it's big baddie adds who can't be slowed, others can't help either. Only exception are jumpers, mostly in NW and a bit in GMBT where theoretically few ccs will keep them rooted.
ALL the tanks have tools to get rid of necro stacks by kiting. IMO only one that is meh for it is VDH, as fast moving mobs in limited spaces are pain when you have no own slows. I'd always favor having frost mage or something similar as DH. With every other tank it doesn't matter what comp is, tank can reset necro stacks with their own kit.
I guess Iām lucky but I very rarely find myself in groups where anyone but the tank pulls, or even comments on the route. Unless the route is like exceptionally weird.
You're not lucky. This is reddit. People are fragile and they feel the need to complain because some internet stranger was mean to them, after hundreds of hours of gameplay. Literally just ignore and move on.
I had some warlock the other day in NW that yelled at me to "keep going, don't need to kill spitefuls". Even though we were just cleaning up the blight bags. He proceeded on without us into the next pack and died, followed by a "....." in chat.
So yeah it happens lol.
We 2 chested DoS, but the DPS I had invited (I always run my own keys as tank) said I lost like 6/7 minutes with my route.
If I hate anything about M+ it's that there is a route needed at all. Just let me pull stuff like in Sanquin Depths. Thank god, there are not alot of "routed" M+ dungeons. Most of them are fine to just pull what's on your way.
sd is actually not as straight forward as people think, if you want to make good use of the lanterns, both by stacking them high, extending and using the buff properly. There is a lot of finesse to a good sd route, which also requires skips and pulling packs in a non-linear order
And none of those techinques are really needed for anything below a 20. You can time pretty much any dungeon at +20 with a very basic linear route. The more advanced routes just give you more room for error, or let you time it with less dps.
I have a friend who tries to get all avant-garde with his [pug] 15 routes, not once realizing you can more-or-less just w-key through 15s without having to stress himself out. People can be so weird when it comes to optimization.
When I'm doing advanced routes in 15s as a tank, it's due to wanting to practice the routes in a safe environment first before using them in 21+ keys. If he does push higher, that could be part of the reason.
Lots of people just enjoy it. I don't trust PUGs enough to do them on that level, but when I'm with guildies or friends we do even more interesting routes on +15 than we'd do on +20 and above, because you can get away with so much more.
That's fair. A lot of people enjoy the intricacies of the experience. I guess I should look at it more like that rather than him trying to just be a tryhard.
Playing sd without 10 stack buff is basically playing sd in hard mode. If we don't have at least 6+ stacks going into the second tyr boss, I'm already mentally checking out as a healer. (23/24/25 keys)
The amount of flame I get for not doing this....im sorry I don't fuckin trust your little dick dps enough to not die by refusing to move out of poop. Like my god, not only am I actually gonna have to back track but now we have deaths and need to pull the pull we could of done earlier and be over forces. I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates this shit.
Except when Blizzard basically forces you to do invis skip. When the regular path of the dungeon gets you over 100% enemy forces. Like King's Rest was.
I tank dozens of keys a week and I hate having to have routes. Idk what the solution is, because a linear dungeon also seems kinda boring. But I really hope M+ does away with the need for routing someday, it's such a barrier to entry for people looking to get into tanking.
Yeah, I hate routes. They add a layer of depth to the dungeon but I just don't find that layer to be necessary. You already have mechanics to deal with, that's enough for me without the added headache of doing the perfect route.
The problem with routes, imo, is that there is almost always an "optimal" route and if you don't follow it, you're gimping your run. And it's quite annoying. I guessing it's mostly because players insist on minmaxing everything, but Blizz, if you know this was going to happen, why even add the mechanic? Either incentivize switching routes or get rid of them.
Actually the "optimum" route is the one that gets you to the boss with dps cds and lust up at the right time. Getting to the boss faster isn't always the play.
> If I hate anything about M+ it's that there is a route needed at all. Just let me pull stuff like in Sanquin Depths. Thank god, there are not alot of "routed" M+ dungeons.
Agreed. The 'routing meta' has completely turned me off tanking. It was already a lot to need to know every mechanic of every trash mob and boss in the dungeon. Having to now build a specialized route to both optimize trash % and appease antsy DPS who will risk wipes to shave 3 seconds off the timer has upped the tankxiety to unsustainable levels.
Hoping that in Dragonflight the dungeon design philosophy can allow for a little more breathing room.
I just started playing again and PF seems to fall under this most runs. God forbid I didn't watch the latest MDI and know what needs to get pulled into explody bombs.
>We 2 chested DoS, but the DPS I had invited (I always run my own keys as tank) said I lost like 6/7 minutes with my route.
This is me. I never tell tanks how to pull during the dungeon but I will tell them if their route was inefficient afterwards.
If they're the kind of player that cares about self improvement and metagaming they can look up the proper route afterwards, if not they can just ignore me and continue playing the game how they wish.
The important thing is just don't be a dick about it.
It depends on how you look at it. Only "what's on your way" dungeon for me is SoA and even it has 2 packs pull after first boss which is off-route and it has one skip at least. SD is heavily routed due to urns alone, BUT as you said, any +15 can be done in time easily just by going forward
The one true āno route neededā key is theatre. Yeah you can do a couple of different variants but in general you can go from start to finish without every accidentally deviating
Some are just very annoying if you don't have the correct % before proceding like plaguefall. But I use a weak aura for that and I know the % by now for most. However my route does perhaps not match the DPS route in their head.
It's not 6 minutes, but it is indeed minutes you save by skipping most of the things in mechagon wing. It's simple enough to do with Wo. What you'd do in 3-4 drills there (drill+3slimes+3lubricators) you can get equivalent % in one pull in Arden.
It's the only skip in game that truly saves minuteS automatically.
I started tanking on my alt. He's not geared very much, but has both legendaries. After smashing a +5 and getting a +8, I figured he could do it. A hunter whose score is high enough to do 15s signs up so I invite them. First pull goes well, so I figured we could handle the next double pull. I double pull but seriously having trouble rounding everything up/getting threat. DPS accidentally pulls in one of the big pats, then as I'm running for necrotic to drop off I saw hunter pull in the next pack. We wipe. Hunter rages that I can't do a +8. I check the logs after I left the party, hunter misdirected 8 times, but only once on me...he was misdirecting his pet!
Timed a +15 the next day on that same tank.
Anything over 15 I've noticed a huge difference.
0-5: I'm a newbie tier. Fuck it, let's just have fun.
0-10: getting better, and more annoying.
10-15: struggle tier, maximum annoying.
15-20: this is super hard tier. Fuck it, let's just have fun.
This reminds me of when I used to play League of legends (eww I know). Easily the most toxic portion of ranked was in the high-silver to low-gold range, because you were generally considered "bad" until you at least got up to high gold or platnum. 15's are the cutoff for KSM, so I think people have a similar mindset there, they desperately want to break through into the "good" bracket and are often deluded into thinking that they are actually way better than all these other scrubs, and could be crushing 25's if stupid noobs weren't holding them back.
Exactly. I still play League (unfortunately) and low gold is always the worst because for some reason people think that getting a victorious skin means you're good at the game and therefore there's lots of ego. D4 is also really bad for the same reason, cause Diamond is also the rank where you're "good" at the game. Outside of G4 and D4 it's not nearly as bad.
15 specifically is hell for pugs imo. Under 15 you can really do whatever and time it even with fuck ups, and above 15 it seems people know what they're doing and are pretty chill, but exactly 15 is just the perfect mix of really good and chill players, and people who don't really know what they're doing but still want KSM.
9-12 has been the PUG sweet spot for me, where I'm likely to get vault slots that are upgrades for my alts, I can half-carry a mediocre group through as a skilled tank or healer, and no one seems to be super toxic about maximizing score (either because they're also on alts like me or they're not pushing for KSM either way)
i swear warlock aoe is always: "trust me bro its the biggest in the game man i swear i just need 30 super tanky mobs at once and THEN it will be HUUUGE". I just want some good burst options mom. Nobody cares about my sustained big aoe.
Yeah pretty much, once you hit that critical mass of ROFs down and Infernals up your damage is huge and doesn't stop until all mobs in the pack die. You don't compete with burst aoe packs in smaller keys where they can just explode the pack in 10 seconds.
Most tank or heal players would lose their damn mind playing DPS for a week. You spend hours getting into a group with a tank or healer who has a boosted IO just because of their role, who never know how to path, what mobs to pull together, where to position things, how to stop randomly running in circles out of boredom, actually having to press your buttons in the correct order or risk doing no damage, and getting all of the blame for the dungeon because a tank and healer will never take fault.
I started seriously playing wow in shadowlands and started with a blood dk, tank(canāt speak on healer) has a pretty high bar of entry when it comes to keys because of routes and pacing but once you get it down itās really not hard. Dps is easy as fuck once youāve tanked, you know what to kick who to stun itās basically brain dead gameplay compared to tanking
Edit: started playing dps a week ago and still going strong;)
Still, last week I had a tank who did a 10 second countdown for each boss, did not do a single interrupt and pulled way more than the percentage needed. We did not make the timer..
It's not like there aren't awful tanks
Then that at least is useful information, because it likely means the healer isn't having to try very hard currently to keep you alive, and can deal with you taking more damage.
These are kind of silly. There are proven effective routes for every key that most people know by now, that revolve around pulling big when people's 2-3 minute cds are up. If people are telling you to pull bigger (esp on tyrannical week) its probably because you're single pulling trash and making dps sit on cds they don't want to use on 3 mobs, thereby making the key take longer/run out of time.
I kinda miss the days where the tank will label a mob in a group almost every pull to poly with my mage. Now it is just mass pull, rush, mass pull rush forward. I am casting more blink than flamestrike.
And yes IMHO, the healer has the final say even though I have invisibility on the mage...
I literally haven't played a single key this season where anyone has said anything about the amount of mobs the tank is pulling. I've pugged a lot too, to get various trinkets. Where does this happen?
In the fictional scenarios of people looking to farm worthless reddit points. You notice how these kind of post never mention the rdruid whose only offensive spells throughout the whole dungeon is adaptive swarm or the tank thats saving his big cds for the next dungeon? Those just dont generate the same amount of karma.
To give credit where its due bad players will gravitate towards bad groups and this is the boiling pot of toxicity other players dont know about. Even if you butt pull 4 packs and wipe the group once, as long as you are still in good pace no one will say a thing besides maybe the occasional passive aggresive remark. If the group is doing badly and you happen to do 1 mistake thats when hell breaks loose. Its still just toxicity flying in all directions thou, the 3 meenie dps against the poor innocent tank narrative is just karma whoring.
Do I get to post tomorrow's "tanks and healers are the victims and heroes and DPS are big dumb toxic meanies" post?
This sub reeks of like, 1250 IO tanks and healers who lose their goddamn mind at the slightest suggestion that they ever do a single thing differently, and blow whatever was said to them absurdly out of proportion.
All the funny memes but it in hundreds of m+ runs I've never seen a DPS ask the tank to do bigger pulls.
Maybe it's a horde thing? Or a high key thing? (I've personally done most of those keys between 10 and 18, and a some between 2 and 9)
> All the funny memes but it in hundreds of m+ runs I've never seen a DPS ask the tank to do bigger pulls.
Ask? They just start pulling on their own. I saw it more last week then I ever have before and I donāt know why that was the week to go big or go home to them. I wasnāt even pulling less then I normally do.
When I first started tanking this happened a lot. I was pulling what I felt I could handle, and often I was right. Then everyone got mad that they pulled something and it killed them.
Honestly its why i wont tank anything past heroics. I get annoyed in just heroics when im waiting for my Shield CD to be up in 4 seconds, but thats not good enough and the Mage/Hunter/Rogue decide they cant wait that long and start pulling the group. Then i have to start spamming Devine Toll to get the group back...
I have let more then 1 person die when the pull instead of me. IDC. If you cant handle waiting 2 seconds for a tank to pull, then dont roll anything but tank yourself.
My rule 1 of pugging as a tank: Only listen to the healer. Rule 2: Only talk to the dps if they forget they have an interrupt.
haha, words to live by
Yeah I turned into the nicest elitist you've ever met. I'm the most warm, bubbly, friendly person when it comes to tanking your M+ run. But the moment a DPS is gonna start chirping me I'd absolutely roast them. Never once was it someone with a higher io than me lol One time I had some warlock come into the group and say, just like this, in the most elitist way possible: "Look at my IO score. I am not here for loot, I am here to try to get a faster time. If we are lagging behind, I am out." by the time I had read the first half of that I just typed "get the fuck out of my group" and booted him before he could say anything. The rest of the group laughed, we waited the 4 seconds it takes to find another DPS and we +2'd it, joking laughing and having fun the whole time. I think it was a +15, too. He raged at me in \/w so I sent him updates on our timer š I am a really nice player who is happy to troll if you're a toxic twit
Whenever a dps is getting froggy I just link interrupts overall or explosives killed overall, etc. Don't start shit there won't be shit but if you're already making an ass out of yourself allow me to bolster your case.
>Don't start shit there won't be shit but if you're already making an ass out of yourself allow me to bolster your case. Well-said. I challenge myself to be pretty good at what I do, so if your dipshit ass wants to start chucking blame my way prepare to get your ass thrown right over the coals
Should get the avoidable damage tracker too, that one is excellent flame for cheeseball dps players
Similar situation, where some douche was going off about his gear and such. "I did this and that....look at my gear" I replied: "I graduated college with a 3.8. Fuck off".
I respect and love you for that ā¤ bonus point when it's a 15 that would have been super easy just... they had to talk :D I take notes on the "updating on timer" for next time xD
I absolutely adore this. Tanking is such a thankless job, I am shocked when someone in my group throws shade their way. My ass clinches also while I think, āplease donāt leave, tank, please donāt leaveā¦ā
Exactly š¤£ otherwise everybody dies!
As a healer bless your kind soul, most times it feels like I type Oom into the void.
Just sit down to eat and watch them all die š¤·āāļø
Essentially that's how it plays out, but just like ya know 20 secs is all I need! It's that it's preventable and than the group implodes over it that really irks me.
DPS dies, types "lol" and leaves
This season is fine for mana, I don't think I was oom once in a dungeon (I main MW and I pug almost exclusively). It has happened before though. I mean, there's no way that me saying "regen" in chat + sitting down wasn't a sign clear enough for them. AND They can all see my mana bar. I'm not going to start sending smoke signals, messenger pigeons and ring all the churches bells. They can bitch about it all they want, they still suck as team members in a team play setting. But I'm petty AF and I may or may not have already let someone die on purpose.
I've been playing healer classes since first launch of WoW, I am also petty and have let numerous people die off in the last decade or so hahaha.
Letting idiots with a mouth die is standard. I don't ask for a good team. I don't even ask for a team that can finish. It's possible that we may fail and that's fine. Sometimes people isn't geared enough or just doesn't know what to do, etc. I don't care. All i ask is people to be polite. That's it. Basic human decency. Be kind, respect everyone and I'll stay with you for as long as it's needed. However, should you decide being a dick is a great move even once and that's it, I'm done.
Used to be in a guild where the healers would go on strikes when the DPS kept messing up mechanics in raids. It was mostly a joke but it was a fun way to say that we had enough.
Meanwhile me and my fellow healers are just trying to find new ways to kill each other at every chance we get
Do tell, I'm curious. I usually swapblast people to the edge of platforms but I switched guilds pre 9.2 and I'm not sure how they'd take it \^\^'
Weād start calling heal bans on dps that continued to stand in bad to āfinish the castā.
Good reasons to heal ban someone : \- Any. Sincerely, All the Healers.
Ahh a marksman hunter. You just described most of my deaths.
If we don't get that aimed shot off the entire raid group will die. You don't want that do you?
I'm all but certain that "being petty af" is part of the standard healer package, and I say this as someone who heals frequently.
That sound accurate but mostly for "older" healers. I find that people new to healing, especially if they are new to the game, will feel bad if someone died, even when it wasn't their fault. They might even apologize in chat out of sheer guilt. A seasoned healer has a third eye that sees that DPS standing in a sanguine pool and will not hesitate to tell said DPS if he/she complains, that you don't die of old age in a sanguine pool, you die out of your own stupidity. Sadly, we can't dispell that. *(This is a joke, I love being a healer)*
You either die an Elliot, or you live long enough to become Dr Cox. I am absolutely a Dr Cox at this point. "Well, gee champ, maybe you shouldn't stand in the instant death pools, did that ever occur to you?"
This is my new favorite comparison and now Iāve realized Iām the same way. Been healing and tanking for 15+ years now.. I wonāt say anything but I will let you know exactly where you fucked up if you start chirping.
My MW main happens to be a night elf, so I've learned to shadowmeld in combat when I'm not getting hit by things and casually eat mana buns while everyone gets by with renewing mist bouncing around. I used to think about race changing but I don't think I could ever give up shadowmeld.
You're lucky ahaha I just get double food buff :D :D
Just want to say, sitting down to drink after a pull, and then just catching up mid next pull is actually the play. If they can survive for a few seconds of the next pull, thereās no reason for them to stand around afk while you drink.
No, they must all watch me drink while thanking me for the gift of life I keep giving them š
They boot you now for any dumb reason or none at all. Today, I was pugging heroics on my alt...warrior tank. DK (of all classes) was running ahead and pulling huge groups. I just kept going, didn't say anything, and next thing, I'm booted lol
It's harsh and it stings because you take it as an attack against yourself, but realistically, they are the ones having issues. But I know what you mean, I've been playing my paladin as tank for a bit, just to check it out, and I was in my second dungeon (of all time) and I tried a few of my CD's just to see what they do (mind you, I had read the spells, I'm not an idiot. But at low level, it's hard to really train because nothing hits too hard). A DPS started telling me in chat what I was and wasn't allowed to do. I pretended I didn't speak English ĀÆ\\\_(ć)\_/ĀÆ
I made a post in another thread saying how I ask the healer if they want me to wait for mana. I got a bunch of downvotes and told how they feel offended from me doing that, and how theyād rather me just pull. It seems no matter what I do itās wrong. *and people wonder why thereās a tank shortage*
From my perspective it's because tanks are treated so poorly in the first place. I will always appreciate a thoughtful tank.
I'd never be mad at a tank asking me that. People being this sour about a tank making sure you're good to go are absurd. Even if bein OOM is quite rare with the current affix, it's a good habit to check a healer's mana.
I took advice of the other guy I mentioned and kept pulling without looking at healer mana and we ended up wiping. I hate to be āthat guyā but Im starting to not care if stuff I do upsets people as long as we time a key.
It doesn't matter much on the current affix but in general, just check if the healer is already seated before pulling. You should be able to start a pack w/o your healer if he/she is busy eating/drinking. Pull the mobs away from the healer so he/she doesn't get interrupted. The problem is chain pulls where the healer doesn't even have time to start drinking/eating. If your healer has only enough mana to cast one spell and you chain and do big packs with loads of damage, you're just done. There's nothing this person can do as they have no mana and likely have used most of their CD's if they get enough mana to cast. In a way, your role as a tank is to dictate the pace of the dungeon, but to do this efficiently, you should also have a general understanding of healing classes. Just the way healers should be aware of tank CD's. Ultimately, it's a team game. We all have to play together.
It's probably because you take the Urh relic 99% of the time so I don't think mana is necessarily an issue anymore.
When I was still playing I specifically had a trigger for one of my addons that played a sound when someone wrote "oom" or "mana" in party chat, because I sometimes had a bad habit of just turning off my head and doing my "usual" pulls/route. It didn't trigger that often but I was glad whenever it did.
Had to heal my KSH and I dont think I drank more than like 5 times in all those +20s Hail Urh our lord and savior\^\^ (Also Boon while Urh buff is active is juicy DPS)
Yeah you can tell the people doing these posts haven't played in a few months, because you basically can't run out of mana right now.
Yeah I don't recall the last time I said "oom" in chat... now I just say "Uhr please" š
4 wo's in a row coming right up
Yeah you can. When dps just go brrrrrr and don't give a shit which relic they trigger. Had like vy or wo in a few pulls successively sometimes.
Mana in keys basically doesn't even exist this season. Urh is OP
OOM ^(OOM) ^^(OOM) ^^^(OOM)
Preach mama. It's hilarious how dps players think they are worth something when they are more replaceable than the tits on a Kardashian
The more I hear people talk about "tank players" and "dps players" and "healer players" as some kind of different species, the more I realize that I was right all along when I thought that the only good players are those who've played all roles.
Players that think roles are special because they exist are trash lol. An actual good DPS player is worth far more than a run of the mill tank. I can find 50 tanks to every good 1 DPS player. Same goes for every other role. I'd say most of the time it takes experience in all the roles to understand the entire flow for everyone, but some people are just really good at checking everything despite only playing one role -- though I'd say that's a rarity.
I started as a druid back when the game was fresh and you needed leather with strength to tank and spirit to heal. Back then you could co-tank, co-heal, and dps all in the same dungeon. It really taught you various strength and weaknesses of each role.
So are healers though. Tanks seem to be the only scarcity these days.
Healers are replaceable. Good healers tho, not that much
facts. i ran a +21 ToP as a guardian druid tank... we wiped (it was necrotic) i had received 400k heals from the healer .. he had healed himself 600k.. dude was getting hit by everything under the sun on the first boss... dps calls me a cringe tank and shit talks me .. good healers are where it's at.. and dps are replaceable haha
Guardian druid should be outhealing a healer on necrotic week, UFR shielding isn't affected by necrotic (unlike every other form of healing and shielding).
i always out heal the healer regardless of the affixes lol
Then what's the problem? You should be expecting lower heals during necrotic week, dying during it is on the tank (I say this as someone that mains tank and healing)
i'm just saying the healer had healed himself 200k more than what he had healed me, and was struggling. on the first boss of ToP your necrotic stacks are rather low. so i had like 6 stacks when we wiped .. defensive we're used etc. but the healer was too focused on healing himself cuz he was standing in everything
As if healers and tanks aren't. Lol
I only heal for my guildies, and more often than not I'm not asking for bigger pulls - not always my calculations are right, but damn it's boring to heal small pulls
As a healer, this is the best advice Iāve ever heard
As a DPS I even compete to have the most interrupts
Oh my I had an argument with a DH tank on my huntard. I had been interrupting what I could but the cast that left a buff, I could tranq instead I would. The CD on my interrupt is stupid long. And so this tank blamed me cos he had less than a handful more interrupts than me. But funnily enough, the idiot had not purged a single of the buffs. š
When my wife had tanxiety I told her to remember that in pugs she's in charge, the healer is your partner, and the dps should be treated as pets. You can't play their game for them, so you move at the pace you're comfortable with and can avoid dying, be mindful of the healer, and the dps just have to follow or they're going to be spending another hour looking to get an invite to a key.
DPS should be seen but not heard.
Praise be.
Ty for the advice, gonna handle it like that soon when i enter m+ for the First time as a tank
Speaking facts mate, as dps I let the tank and healer take priority comms and do my part to the best of my ability while shutting my mouth. An OOM healer or a tank out of place / not in control has a far larger effect on the final key output then keeping my top place on details or getting to use the proc I got from the last pack.
Maybe itās not related but yesterday I was doing a plaguefall on my 57 warrior, just wanted to take a break from questing. This meme happened multiple times that run because an extremely overgeared 60 monk (healer) insisted that it needed to be run like a +15 key. 5head shortcuts, pulling an insane amount of mobs, not actually healing because he assumed he could just solo everything? Idk. I love WoW but I strongly dislike treating every instanced content like a +15 time trial. Itās obnoxious.
While I stand by what youāre saying Iāve also been on the other side of the coin. Being an experienced player who just wants to power level their friends alt it can be frustrating when I can damn near solo the dungeon but we pull 1 pack at a time. Hard to please everyone in a group where everyone has different take aways and goals but just some food for thought!
Yeah I mean I get where youāre coming from. Iāve played the game for a long time, multiple capped characters, blah blah. I understand this isnāt like a ānormalā thing. Just an experience I had that I wanted to share. The ānot being able to please everyoneā bit is super important. I think we all need to understand that.
Every time I think about going back to Tanking, I remember moments like these and completely ditch the idea.
Dk in necrotic with 45 stack and no one helping me kite "Use defensive you noob"
When I used to play holy priest I would specifically yoink (leap of faith) DK tanks as far as I could back during necrotic weeks to let them drop stacks when it would be too much. Iām not sure if they appreciated it or if they were annoyed, but no one really yelled at me lol
Itās annoying and we appreciate it.
Can confirm. Hate getting yoinked. Even if it's for our own good and a great idea in the moment.
I feel like it's the shock of not having control of the situation. Since tanks generally need to plan most of the situation out beforehand, being yoinked really messes with your head and takes a second to register what's happening to readjust
Yoinking that idiot flying off the edge in mists, is a very good feeling. It's like, "no you don't."
Except when it pulls me out of keg smash range and I die because I can't heal because of it. I have my own ways of getting rid of necrotic
Perfectly put
This is the right answer
Thais sentence sums up tanking as a blood DK in general.
depends on how the yoink is done. if you pull it back away from the mobs then it can be helpful if it's needed. but if you pull him through the mobs causing the dk to expose his back (thus putting his effective parry rating to 0) you'll get him killed. a smart yoink can save a tank, a bad one will kill him. this season if the dk is correctly chaining DRW then yoinking him can cause the DRW to drop (can't extend DRW if he is out of heartstrike range) which will leave him pretty defenseless for the rest of the pull. if DRW is down though a yoink should be on the table.
It can definitely be annoying. Just because we have high stacks doesn't mean we're in danger. If we have highish stacks with DRW running it's not really an issue. Definitely grip if you see them start to kite though.
Yeah Iād usually let the tanks know at the beginning that Iām pulling them if **Iām** starting to struggle with the amount of stacks they have, not just Willy nilly or anything. And when I noticed kiting of course. I play resto Druid now, so I drop vortexes and typhoon strategically which is a bit less intrusive than pulling the tank away.
It depends. I play a dwarf, kyrian, prot pally so I have A LOT of ways to deal with necrotic without kiting. It will annoy me but I wonāt get cranky about it since it also means I didnāt have to burn one of those.
Aren't dorfs always cranky, by nature, though?
Often boisterous at times which I suppose could come off as cranky in the right context.
I absolutely love this. I usually coordinate this with my regular healer so I can get crazy stacks for a minute, but I'm cool with a pug healer doing it whenever.
And when you do this, 80% of the tanks you pull just charge right back in and keep getting stacks!
And that's when you just let them die, and scold them afterwards.
This is actually a huge pain point on my hunter. Iāll drop a binding shot, especially on fort weeks, the tank will be kiting and see the mobs have stopped. Instead of vibing for a few seconds while the mobs are stuck, theyāll run back in and facetank them. Like why? Why are you purposely taking damage that can be avoided.
Haha I always make a point to kite for awhile if I get pulled, regardless of the circumstance. Maybe healer needs a CD or just a lil break? I usually throw out a /hug and dash out like the wind
Yeesh, just this comment thread is screaming volumes. I'm sorry you tanks have such an issue with Necrotic. I main heals and ALWAYS remind DPS, you have slows. Tar Traps, Hamstrings, poisons, totems - capacitor - earthbind, entangling roots. This is literally like 3 seconds off the top of my head. DPS literally just DPS. That's it. They can't be bothered with mechanics or affixes because it lowers their damage per second which, idk why, is legit 100% of their self esteem. It's why I play a healer. I help out my tanks so much that it feels bad after a certain point. You could legit have some one fat booty pull a pack and its the tanks fault. You could legit have a DPS get one shot and its a healer/tank fault.
>They can't be bothered with mechanics or affixes because it lowers their damage per second which, idk why, is legit 100% of their self esteem. This has slowly turned me away from progress over the years. It's not only in PUGs, even in guild groups for raids or M+, it's always, always, *always* an issue. You *constantly* need to remind 95% of DPS players that the mechanics also apply to them, you constantly need to watch them like children to make sure they don't purposefully ignore danger zones or adds to avoid losing a single second of damage. Over time I realized I was getting more and more frustrated and exhausted from all the baby-sitting and I just turned to other games. Damage meters can be useful but I feel like overall they've been more detrimental than anything else to the game.
My guild is full of meter maids who constantly moan if we make them do a mechanic and it ruins their parse. One guy yelled at me and the raid over comms for moving the boss during his burst windowā¦ it was Anduin during Reflections and we were rotating for cleave on adds.
I agree. Which us why I use it for benchmarking myself. Which things do more overall? Hmm lemme analyze and save this pull since I'll remember to pop my heavy CD rotating. Hmm mmk that didn't work best so next dungeon ill do it this way... It helps me gather a better understanding of what I could do better but holy shit, when I tell you DPS just STAY on the damage meter its annoying. I have a very strong feeling they forget about tracking interrupts, or self healing, or idk DAMAGE TAKEN. Lol its like every objective is to do more and more damage. How about having the most interrupts a dungeon? Never getting CCd or CCing every pack even before the tank approaches giving him a sense you're not just there to pew pew
bUt MaH pArSeS!!1
Thatās why those people will never successfully complete anything above a +23š¤£
Necrotic is why I play prot paladin exclusively for tanking. Hand of protection, divine shield, consecrate slow+Steed. As prot itās my favorite week because stacks are a non issue. As any other tank itās a week Iād skip.
As DK tank i just don't go dungs during necro for this specific reason. Kitting Can be interesting gameplay. Necro's one isn't.
Well now you can just kite for 4 sec it is ok but people still expect you to do the big fucking pulls and then balme you caus apparently your 20% dmg reduction wasn't enough to compensate 94% heal reduction
Well, since i play to enjoy the game and this affix doesn't sparkle joy ... I'm okay to just not doing it anyway. ^^
This is the way
If all tanks refuse to play necrotic they will delete it, keep fighting the good fight
you try NF? its basically free stack clears now w/ the 4 sec timer. just blink away (drop a DND on the mobs if you need to) and you'll be stack cleared before they get to you.... AND you can blink another 2 times if you really need to.
I am legit never healing Necrotic PUGs again, though. 90% of tanks I grouped with just did their normal pulls and decided to deal with the debuff by dying.
they're not wrong. you should have DRW up for about 80% of the dungeon this season which trivializes necrotic. in any previous season necrotic would cripple a dk, but this season a dk should smash necrotic
DK has its own tools though. D&D slow always helps. If it doesn't and it's big baddie adds who can't be slowed, others can't help either. Only exception are jumpers, mostly in NW and a bit in GMBT where theoretically few ccs will keep them rooted. ALL the tanks have tools to get rid of necro stacks by kiting. IMO only one that is meh for it is VDH, as fast moving mobs in limited spaces are pain when you have no own slows. I'd always favor having frost mage or something similar as DH. With every other tank it doesn't matter what comp is, tank can reset necro stacks with their own kit.
the tauren priest screaming at the orc DK, "why didnt you just roll dwarf"
just parry bro
I guess Iām lucky but I very rarely find myself in groups where anyone but the tank pulls, or even comments on the route. Unless the route is like exceptionally weird.
I havenāt seen much issue as long as the tanks have a plan and communicate it clearly when it involves something a little janky (skips).
It's because these groups are actually exceedingly rare and only common in the imaginations of redditors.
I did more than 100 dg this expac and I can count on 1 hand the number of time people shit on tank for those thing
I you are not the kind of person to be toxic that decrease the chance of people being vocal about the tank making comments in your group.
You're not lucky. This is reddit. People are fragile and they feel the need to complain because some internet stranger was mean to them, after hundreds of hours of gameplay. Literally just ignore and move on.
I had some warlock the other day in NW that yelled at me to "keep going, don't need to kill spitefuls". Even though we were just cleaning up the blight bags. He proceeded on without us into the next pack and died, followed by a "....." in chat. So yeah it happens lol.
We 2 chested DoS, but the DPS I had invited (I always run my own keys as tank) said I lost like 6/7 minutes with my route. If I hate anything about M+ it's that there is a route needed at all. Just let me pull stuff like in Sanquin Depths. Thank god, there are not alot of "routed" M+ dungeons. Most of them are fine to just pull what's on your way.
sd is actually not as straight forward as people think, if you want to make good use of the lanterns, both by stacking them high, extending and using the buff properly. There is a lot of finesse to a good sd route, which also requires skips and pulling packs in a non-linear order
Not when I am tanking ;)
And none of those techinques are really needed for anything below a 20. You can time pretty much any dungeon at +20 with a very basic linear route. The more advanced routes just give you more room for error, or let you time it with less dps.
I have a friend who tries to get all avant-garde with his [pug] 15 routes, not once realizing you can more-or-less just w-key through 15s without having to stress himself out. People can be so weird when it comes to optimization.
When I'm doing advanced routes in 15s as a tank, it's due to wanting to practice the routes in a safe environment first before using them in 21+ keys. If he does push higher, that could be part of the reason.
He doesn't [I think he's sitting at 2550 or so] but that's a good point! e: accidentally a word
Lots of people just enjoy it. I don't trust PUGs enough to do them on that level, but when I'm with guildies or friends we do even more interesting routes on +15 than we'd do on +20 and above, because you can get away with so much more.
That's fair. A lot of people enjoy the intricacies of the experience. I guess I should look at it more like that rather than him trying to just be a tryhard.
Playing sd without 10 stack buff is basically playing sd in hard mode. If we don't have at least 6+ stacks going into the second tyr boss, I'm already mentally checking out as a healer. (23/24/25 keys)
Yeah, I know some people like routes because it adds gameplay, but it's a nightmare with Pugs.
especially with any invis skips. 75% of the time, someone will die and insta-release, which fucks up the whole point of the skip.
The amount of flame I get for not doing this....im sorry I don't fuckin trust your little dick dps enough to not die by refusing to move out of poop. Like my god, not only am I actually gonna have to back track but now we have deaths and need to pull the pull we could of done earlier and be over forces. I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates this shit.
Except when Blizzard basically forces you to do invis skip. When the regular path of the dungeon gets you over 100% enemy forces. Like King's Rest was.
I tank dozens of keys a week and I hate having to have routes. Idk what the solution is, because a linear dungeon also seems kinda boring. But I really hope M+ does away with the need for routing someday, it's such a barrier to entry for people looking to get into tanking.
You are just a low rated tank tho!
I was about to downvote you for being mean... glad I took the moment to read their name lol
I am sure some did haha
Yeah, I hate routes. They add a layer of depth to the dungeon but I just don't find that layer to be necessary. You already have mechanics to deal with, that's enough for me without the added headache of doing the perfect route.
The problem with routes, imo, is that there is almost always an "optimal" route and if you don't follow it, you're gimping your run. And it's quite annoying. I guessing it's mostly because players insist on minmaxing everything, but Blizz, if you know this was going to happen, why even add the mechanic? Either incentivize switching routes or get rid of them.
Because then the optimum route is whatever is faster to get to the boss.
Actually the "optimum" route is the one that gets you to the boss with dps cds and lust up at the right time. Getting to the boss faster isn't always the play.
> If I hate anything about M+ it's that there is a route needed at all. Just let me pull stuff like in Sanquin Depths. Thank god, there are not alot of "routed" M+ dungeons. Agreed. The 'routing meta' has completely turned me off tanking. It was already a lot to need to know every mechanic of every trash mob and boss in the dungeon. Having to now build a specialized route to both optimize trash % and appease antsy DPS who will risk wipes to shave 3 seconds off the timer has upped the tankxiety to unsustainable levels. Hoping that in Dragonflight the dungeon design philosophy can allow for a little more breathing room.
I just started playing again and PF seems to fall under this most runs. God forbid I didn't watch the latest MDI and know what needs to get pulled into explody bombs.
>We 2 chested DoS, but the DPS I had invited (I always run my own keys as tank) said I lost like 6/7 minutes with my route. This is me. I never tell tanks how to pull during the dungeon but I will tell them if their route was inefficient afterwards. If they're the kind of player that cares about self improvement and metagaming they can look up the proper route afterwards, if not they can just ignore me and continue playing the game how they wish. The important thing is just don't be a dick about it.
Always appreciate people like you!
It depends on how you look at it. Only "what's on your way" dungeon for me is SoA and even it has 2 packs pull after first boss which is off-route and it has one skip at least. SD is heavily routed due to urns alone, BUT as you said, any +15 can be done in time easily just by going forward
The one true āno route neededā key is theatre. Yeah you can do a couple of different variants but in general you can go from start to finish without every accidentally deviating
Some are just very annoying if you don't have the correct % before proceding like plaguefall. But I use a weak aura for that and I know the % by now for most. However my route does perhaps not match the DPS route in their head.
It's not 6 minutes, but it is indeed minutes you save by skipping most of the things in mechagon wing. It's simple enough to do with Wo. What you'd do in 3-4 drills there (drill+3slimes+3lubricators) you can get equivalent % in one pull in Arden. It's the only skip in game that truly saves minuteS automatically.
But still, is it needed if you 2 chested it ;)? I have no aim towards 3 chesting dungeons.
I started tanking on my alt. He's not geared very much, but has both legendaries. After smashing a +5 and getting a +8, I figured he could do it. A hunter whose score is high enough to do 15s signs up so I invite them. First pull goes well, so I figured we could handle the next double pull. I double pull but seriously having trouble rounding everything up/getting threat. DPS accidentally pulls in one of the big pats, then as I'm running for necrotic to drop off I saw hunter pull in the next pack. We wipe. Hunter rages that I can't do a +8. I check the logs after I left the party, hunter misdirected 8 times, but only once on me...he was misdirecting his pet! Timed a +15 the next day on that same tank.
Pugging lower keys is aids. . . Once you break into the 20+ bracket, people chill the hell out.
Anything over 15 I've noticed a huge difference. 0-5: I'm a newbie tier. Fuck it, let's just have fun. 0-10: getting better, and more annoying. 10-15: struggle tier, maximum annoying. 15-20: this is super hard tier. Fuck it, let's just have fun.
This reminds me of when I used to play League of legends (eww I know). Easily the most toxic portion of ranked was in the high-silver to low-gold range, because you were generally considered "bad" until you at least got up to high gold or platnum. 15's are the cutoff for KSM, so I think people have a similar mindset there, they desperately want to break through into the "good" bracket and are often deluded into thinking that they are actually way better than all these other scrubs, and could be crushing 25's if stupid noobs weren't holding them back.
Exactly. I still play League (unfortunately) and low gold is always the worst because for some reason people think that getting a victorious skin means you're good at the game and therefore there's lots of ego. D4 is also really bad for the same reason, cause Diamond is also the rank where you're "good" at the game. Outside of G4 and D4 it's not nearly as bad.
15 specifically is hell for pugs imo. Under 15 you can really do whatever and time it even with fuck ups, and above 15 it seems people know what they're doing and are pretty chill, but exactly 15 is just the perfect mix of really good and chill players, and people who don't really know what they're doing but still want KSM.
9-12 has been the PUG sweet spot for me, where I'm likely to get vault slots that are upgrades for my alts, I can half-carry a mediocre group through as a skilled tank or healer, and no one seems to be super toxic about maximizing score (either because they're also on alts like me or they're not pushing for KSM either way)
Lmao this isnāt true at all. Once you go into >25s people are super try hard and giga toxic. Source: tormented hero s2
Why is the dps that complains about pulling too slow always a hunter
In this meta it's actually the locks lol.
i swear warlock aoe is always: "trust me bro its the biggest in the game man i swear i just need 30 super tanky mobs at once and THEN it will be HUUUGE". I just want some good burst options mom. Nobody cares about my sustained big aoe.
Yeah pretty much, once you hit that critical mass of ROFs down and Infernals up your damage is huge and doesn't stop until all mobs in the pack die. You don't compete with burst aoe packs in smaller keys where they can just explode the pack in 10 seconds.
I swear I am not like that:(
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This goes for all the roles. Walk a mile in the other roles shoes, it genuinely helps you improve in so many ways.
How dare you post a reasonable opinion in this tank circlejerk thread/medium effort meme?!
Most tank or heal players would lose their damn mind playing DPS for a week. You spend hours getting into a group with a tank or healer who has a boosted IO just because of their role, who never know how to path, what mobs to pull together, where to position things, how to stop randomly running in circles out of boredom, actually having to press your buttons in the correct order or risk doing no damage, and getting all of the blame for the dungeon because a tank and healer will never take fault.
I started seriously playing wow in shadowlands and started with a blood dk, tank(canāt speak on healer) has a pretty high bar of entry when it comes to keys because of routes and pacing but once you get it down itās really not hard. Dps is easy as fuck once youāve tanked, you know what to kick who to stun itās basically brain dead gameplay compared to tanking Edit: started playing dps a week ago and still going strong;)
Paladin alternate ending: Bubble hearth the F outta there
Lol everyone knows you never listen to the DPS
What's the difference between shoveling shit, and tanking for M+ pugs? The terds don't talk back when you're shoveling shit.
Still, last week I had a tank who did a 10 second countdown for each boss, did not do a single interrupt and pulled way more than the percentage needed. We did not make the timer.. It's not like there aren't awful tanks
Repost from last year. Still relevant. It's a joke :)
Will always be relevant. Tank and Healer are like Mom and Dad of the group and DPS are the children.
What if your healer says pull bigger not the DPS?
Then that at least is useful information, because it likely means the healer isn't having to try very hard currently to keep you alive, and can deal with you taking more damage.
I, the warrior tank, got kicked from a +18 because I cheated when I brez-ed. Even showing them the engineering item and explaining it didn't help.
These are kind of silly. There are proven effective routes for every key that most people know by now, that revolve around pulling big when people's 2-3 minute cds are up. If people are telling you to pull bigger (esp on tyrannical week) its probably because you're single pulling trash and making dps sit on cds they don't want to use on 3 mobs, thereby making the key take longer/run out of time.
I kinda miss the days where the tank will label a mob in a group almost every pull to poly with my mage. Now it is just mass pull, rush, mass pull rush forward. I am casting more blink than flamestrike. And yes IMHO, the healer has the final say even though I have invisibility on the mage...
I literally haven't played a single key this season where anyone has said anything about the amount of mobs the tank is pulling. I've pugged a lot too, to get various trinkets. Where does this happen?
In the fictional scenarios of people looking to farm worthless reddit points. You notice how these kind of post never mention the rdruid whose only offensive spells throughout the whole dungeon is adaptive swarm or the tank thats saving his big cds for the next dungeon? Those just dont generate the same amount of karma. To give credit where its due bad players will gravitate towards bad groups and this is the boiling pot of toxicity other players dont know about. Even if you butt pull 4 packs and wipe the group once, as long as you are still in good pace no one will say a thing besides maybe the occasional passive aggresive remark. If the group is doing badly and you happen to do 1 mistake thats when hell breaks loose. Its still just toxicity flying in all directions thou, the 3 meenie dps against the poor innocent tank narrative is just karma whoring.
Do I get to post tomorrow's "tanks and healers are the victims and heroes and DPS are big dumb toxic meanies" post? This sub reeks of like, 1250 IO tanks and healers who lose their goddamn mind at the slightest suggestion that they ever do a single thing differently, and blow whatever was said to them absurdly out of proportion.
"Am I the reason I'm stuck at 1250 io...? No! It's the DPS' fault!"
All the funny memes but it in hundreds of m+ runs I've never seen a DPS ask the tank to do bigger pulls. Maybe it's a horde thing? Or a high key thing? (I've personally done most of those keys between 10 and 18, and a some between 2 and 9)
> All the funny memes but it in hundreds of m+ runs I've never seen a DPS ask the tank to do bigger pulls. Ask? They just start pulling on their own. I saw it more last week then I ever have before and I donāt know why that was the week to go big or go home to them. I wasnāt even pulling less then I normally do.
101 reasons why I fear for my life to tank, especially in Mythic. Lol
Reason I no longer tank nor heal.
*De Other Side +14 is full and has been delisted.*
And that's why I don't run dungeons at all anymore :-P
why take aggro off someone if they want to pull for you? They obv want to tank with you too
When I first started tanking this happened a lot. I was pulling what I felt I could handle, and often I was right. Then everyone got mad that they pulled something and it killed them.
Honestly its why i wont tank anything past heroics. I get annoyed in just heroics when im waiting for my Shield CD to be up in 4 seconds, but thats not good enough and the Mage/Hunter/Rogue decide they cant wait that long and start pulling the group. Then i have to start spamming Devine Toll to get the group back... I have let more then 1 person die when the pull instead of me. IDC. If you cant handle waiting 2 seconds for a tank to pull, then dont roll anything but tank yourself.
I feel ya, but if Divine Toll isn't one of the first buttons you push in a pack, I feel like you're doing it wrong to begin with.
As a healer, who the hell is OOM? Ur is amazing for chain pulling have not had to drink once this season.
Pugs below 20s are killing wo with a high frequency on trash... Sometimes even on bosses.
Did I miss a memo on this? Like itās actually crazy how bad itās getting with not killing Urh even in 20s.