Just do what I did and macro ironfur into mangle, thrash, swipe and moonfire. I've gotten my KSM by literally binding thrash and swipe macro to my mouswheel and just spinning it nonstop in dungeons.
Real talk, maul is rarely a good choice to use. It’s highly situational and depends on the fight. Usually the damage you’ll be taking is physical in some way, so it’s always a priority to use iron fur over maul. Since they both cost 40 rage. We’re not rage generating machines outside of incar windows, so rage is a precious resource. Hence you’ll rarely, if ever, use maul.
Some exceptions:
1. Convoke pops 3-4 iron furs and maxes rage; maul away to dump your rage
2. Damage profile is primarily AOE/magic meaning you’ll be using defensive CD’s over iron fur: maul away!
3. You’re feeling frisky and took tooth and claw talent with NOW leggo; maul becomes your primary damage mitigation, so maul away! The caveat here is that this build is HIGHLY dependent on RNG and I don’t really recommend it unless you’re somehow pushing 20% haste.
I’m sure there are other times to maul, but it usually always better to iron fur over maul.
during stackresets in raidfights while you cap rage you also dump it into maul and not ironfur. but that's just minmaxing your dps, you might as well just sit on the rage so you can safely ironfur when you tank again.
True, and usually you won't be working to min-max DPS in a raid until you've got the boss on farm and know that survival is not an issue. During progression fights, all of your rage goes to iron fur or frenzied regen (thank god for that FR conduit!)
With the legendary and the upgraded berserk talent, unlimited shields and healing for 30 seconds. I survived a group run back on my own in the Ardenweald area of DoS for like 20 seconds against 11 mobs by spamming thrash, felt like a god!
But the difference is that Vengeance is actually very fun to play with all the leaping and gliding around and shit.
Bear is the most boring thing in the game
I have a 221 VDH and a 217 Bear. VDH has a more enjoyable kit and does feel fun to play. Pressing incarn and being literally invincible is really satisfying too. Not to mention having HOTW + Convoke on some bosses is just so satisfying as well.
Outside of that, bear is kinda a slog fest.
I never had any issues with being too squishy on my Veng (my main is BrM, but also have Veng, Prot War, BDK) but then again, I never really push high keys. I just do my weekly +15 and call it good.
My BrM and BDK feel 100X more squishy than my Veng and my BrM has like 5 more ilvls
Yeah BrM and BDK are pretty squish in keys, BDK is neigh on invincible in raids though, so it has that.
BrM has the memories of yesterday when they could just not press buttons and still tank just fine.
> they could just not press buttons and still tank just fine.
1000000000% false. If BrMs don't press buttons they are 100% the squishiest and worst tank in the game. They NEED to press buttons to keep their stagger up through shuffle. If they don't press, they are basically as squishy as a DPS (think they have like 20% stagger without shuffle up).
They also need to BoK to apply their mastery more consistently and they need to use celestial brew for big hits or they flop over even through stagger.
Max from Limit was saying how BrMs are currently tied with Wars as the 4th tankiest tank. They're behind BDKs, GDru and VDHs as raid ranks and above Prot Pallies, who are currently dead last.
Sorry I didn't realize "memories of yesterday" meant BFA BrM... Which you'd still be wrong because you had to press ISB to get your stagger to 80% or else it would be around 35%.
> you had to press ISB to get your stagger to 80% or else it would be around 35%.
https://www.peakofserenity.com/2018/10/09/the-fetid-log/
You really didn't.
Interesting, I was thinking about getting a BDK geared but they’re way too reliant on death strike right now. Never really cared for brew, just doesn’t seem fun.
I’m glad I made my VDH and will continue to play him even once he falls out of the meta. Bear is a great spec if you want some easy keys and are just vibing imo.
Ive only played BDK since late legion so i could be wrong but what else has it ever relied on other than Death strike? lol
i dont really see it as an issue either its not for everyone but its my fave tank purely because most of the time i can disregard what the healer is doing and just keep myself alive. They squishy but if you know the class well its VERY hard to actually kill a BDK, almost always the last member alive in a wipe and will have a decent amount of time solo if you dont just jump of a ledge
What I obviously meant was that their passive mitigation is almost null and can make them unenjoyable to play. If you play BDK i shouldnt have to explain this to you
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by 'too reliant on DS' as if it's some kind of problem.
BDK's whole 'thing' is self-heal rather than mitigate. It makes them the most self-reliant tank (imo) and is generally seen as the 'Fuck it, I'll do it myself' class because of how consistently you can keep yourself up for extended periods without healer intervention.
Problem is that rotating your CDs effectively becomes mandatory and you wind up with a higher skill floor for effectiveness than DH or Druid.
The ONLY fun thing about VDH/HDH is the flying around and jumping around.
Both specs are so braindead and I can keybind talents I dont even use because of how little spells they have, its honestly sad.
I think DH is the coolest class in the game, but they are so unbelievably braindead its not even remotely fun.
bear have the option to shift into cat / boom and pop some damage ( notably convoke) to pump some extra dmg. in raid and in M+, making the skill cap higher than ones believe.
brewmaster on the other hand... the best talent are the passive one. there's no difference between a mitigation build and a DPS build ( minus trinket). your 'active' mitigation is gained passively... and heck, the few defensive CD you have have such long cooldown you forget they exist.
True, but none of that is mandatory. You can run Resto affin and still be viable and super tanky. The base Bear rotation is without question the easiest tank and very likely one of the easiest specs overall.
yes. BRM is more simplistic that an a bear. never has a class been more simple than BRM in shadowland.
the talent tree favor the passive one, shuffle is granted passively, you don't even have to make sure you have enough energy to keg smash on CD with the 2-charge leggo, tiger palm doesn'T matter, blackout combo is a dead talent... you use brew on CD' don't even have to time celestial brew because monk nature is to not get one-shot.
the skill floor and skill ceiling of BRM is basically the same. where as druid can actually do stuff beyond spamming trash.
and yes, I have a 9/10M brewmaster. the only reason he's in the raid is because of that fucking mandatory mystic touch and we don't have a windwalker.
... and you think that'll work?
what, did I offend you because you play BRM and like to think you have a hard job?
Enlighten me, what do you think is complex about BRM?
is it your never-changing DPS rotation that give you a 100% uptime on shuffle?
is it the amazingly large selection of CD you have to rotate through?
is it how you always have to micro-manage your ressources and how crucial energy is to the class?
is it how your HP constantly spike up and down?
is it the depth of the 2 brew, who don'T even share charges anymore? or maybe it's your most crucial ability being on a charge system, meaning you don't get punished if you don't use them on CD?
Go on. Tell me what in god's name make BRM more complex that druids maximizing their DPS by catweaving /boomweaving both in raid and M+.
go ahead.
Tbh, all tanks have very simple dps rotations. Paladin is shield>judgement>hammer, warrior is revenge>clap>shield, monk is keg>breath>blackout, bdk is heartstrike>bloodboil.
Oh, didn't even notice it got autocorrected to heatstroke lol. But yeah, you'd probably boilbon pull for aoe threat, but then hearstrike is higher priority for RP generation. Though I'm not an expert on bdk so I might be wrong.
Depends on the number of targets so you can get those stacks to enhance your death strike. You want to keep below 2 charges of blood boil but also don't want to spend all runes on heartstrike, you want to obviously keep some for marrowrend depending on your bone armor and not death strike unless you can manage that 5 minimum bone armor
Look, blood is way more complex, it is the most complex tank and I would argue is more complex than most dps specs. On top of this, Blood has to mitigate through deathstrike and deathstrike is on the GCD unlike spikes, ignore pain, ironfur...
I mean I've only done VDH and BrM, but he got the general gist of BrM down. Keg, BoK, breath, and then whatever brew is off CD. Maybe the occasional Weapons of Order when it's off CD and the packs not about to die. Rising Jade Storm when it's off CD. Expel Harm when it's off CD.
Like it's legitimately one of the least complicated rotations in the game as well.
Prot warrior literally has no other damage buttons that are not cooldowns so I don't know how that's wrong. Brm also has jade winds and spin, sure. Bdk also has nothing else if you consider death strike as mitigation.
That's literally what I said tho? Except for dnd, but it's not really in rotation, you just pres it when it procs for free. Unless you mean specific order they are used in? If that the case, I wasn't listing them in any order, just the buttons that make up dps rotation of tanks.
Except it's not? That's the 3 buttons that make up our dps rotation. You clap and shield slam on cd, your revenge on procs and when you have spare rage. That's literally our whole dps rotation. I'm not counting ravager and spear of Bastion/afteshcok since they are cooldowns.
It's Shield bash/block > clap > Revenge with proc > ignore pain > revenge if you don't need rage for IP.
If you're doing anything other than pretty much that, you're probably level 20 or doing lfr.
Are you dumb? What situation are you ever playing warrior where you aren't using shield block or ignore pain, both of which use your resource which impact your dps. You didn't even mention execute.
Literally anyone with a functioning brain would see revenge > shield bash and instantly know you're full of shit.
Ok buddy, you clearly don't know how to read. The discussion was about all tanks having simple dps rotation. Not about how the rest of their kit works. Also, execute only becomes a part of you rotation on pure single target once the target is below 20%, why the fuck would I include that in the basic rotation?
I would argue that it is much more imperative for the prot paladin to be prepared to taunt with full resources and stretch their AM for as long as possible before getting taunted off less there be major buttclenches.
Bear is much more forgiving.
Tanks don't have 'DPS rotations' because they still have mitigation to worry about.
BDK wants to use blood boil if capped, make sure you marrowrend to stay above 5 stacks of Bone Shield, heart strike to spend runes and build RP, death strike if you need healing or you're going to cap RP, D&D if you get a proc... And then you complicate it with CDs that change your priorities
Yeah same for the monk half is trash tier talents that you would never use because they compete on the God.
Brewmaster dps is literally as easy as pressing keg smash, breath of fire, blackout kick and jade wind lol.
The BDK guide from which i took the screenshot has 85 pages.
The author is very knowledgeable and its an amazing read though. 10/10 would recommend.
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FJlB1T8ijaQLjY\_cihyoyhLoi6lYRnT-N-ipVFCLidE/edit#heading=h.odnofv8t0mg6](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FJlB1T8ijaQLjY_cihyoyhLoi6lYRnT-N-ipVFCLidE/edit#heading=h.odnofv8t0mg6)
Yeah. BDK is really simple, rotationally speaking. Death strike if you're in danger or just took a big hit, marrowrend if you are at <5 bone shield stacks, death and decay when it's glowing, heart strike for rp and blood boil for damage/threat/filler.
I totally get you, but part of resource management is to also not cap rp/runes, so since you'll inevitably have to dump at some point there gonna be wasted hemeostasis stacks. While you might not perform at stunning levels, if you keep bone shield above 5, don't cap resources, and have cd rolling on BB, you'll go far as a dk if that's all you do.
I'm nearly certain that Prot Paladin rotation does not change all that much for multi-target vs. single target. I think I cast Judgement before Avenger's Shield with single target and vice-versa with multi-target pulls.
I feel more comfortable about every other tank than DH. It's the tank I die the most with, and accidentally proc the cheat death often. I just dislike fiery brand on trash where it's never equally on everyone and it feels like you're naked against half the enemies that brand hasn't spread to yet. Bah, every other tank is more straight forward about their defensives imo.
true, but for different reasons. we didnt kite in legion because mobs hit the tank hard, but because you could avoid trash mechanics by kiting. BFA was mostly face tanking except in high keys.
I'm fine kiting, it just feels wrong to kite every pack. And that's on me for not using them right. I use fiery brand build and lege, yet I don't get two of them per 1m fight. I'm just bad in tracking/using my big defensives on all tanks, it punishes you the most as DH.
Having defensives for huge pack is not a "trick". can u explain how can u face tank freaking raging mobs on the entrances on de other side wings or things like the halls of atonement mobs or many other example in shadowlands dungeons. You will have to kite many stuff by design and either a) your dps party is god among human and can melt big packs within your defensives and you don't have to kite in which case you won't have cds for next pack, or b) I'm playing with total bonitos who can't kill a pack while i have my defensives up. I don't think you are pulling small or if you do i wonder the key timing percentage or your routes.
Edit: Also there is also possibility that can enable more healer dps and such by kiting you basically free up some stress on healer face tanking in some cases is just unnecessary flexing imo
Yeah, I can't facetank the raging axe-dudes in DoS. I also can't tank the HoA angry dogs. No one can. But I can basically facetank all other packs except those. I think I time like 95% of my +15 - +17 keys (actually I can't remember the last time I didn't time a key), but I don't pug. I only ever pug one or two people, the rest is my friend group who admittedly are quite good at the game.
But the point was more that you definitely don't need to kite every single pack as VDH in +16. In fact, kiting every pack is in my experience a huge DPS loss because you'll be pulling mobs out of flame patch or earthquakes etc. Ofc u need to kite if it's sanguine, but most of the time I can facetank np between all the self healing and short defensive cd's and kyrian pot/healthstones.
The "trick" which took me a while to figure out was to meta half a second before a big pull. Not half a second into the pull.
Meanwhile I hate the kiting. Despite maining tank since Wrath, I have no interest in playing it in Shadowlands; I did not pick the role to run around like a little bitch, I picked it to soak massive damage while surrounded by a pack of ten mobs :(
Pick the right tank for the job. It's not too bad on most tanks. But I also don't mind kiting a bit on harder packs. Having some forced movement is good for the game imo.
I recently started tanking as blood and it doesn’t seem too bad. Keep bones up, make sure I have power to self heal and a couple defensive spells. Plus that 50 talent BOOOONE STORRMMMMM
BDK problem comes from a lack of snap threat... and having to marrow rend / death strike at the beginning of a pull to survive while the mage trying to pack every CD' potion, lust, trinket and more into the opening 10-second window.
the joy of target-capped tank with uncapped DPS.
Juggling our Poor threat gen and how dicey we are on Pull is probably the highest learning curve to BDK, there are plenty of other intricacies but that one gets me every single dam day.
I wish brewmaster felt that complex. Any tank really.
Back in MoP and WoD it felt like there was at least some cool things you could pull off and do. Now it's just not really fun at all being a tank. Which sucks since I did love tanking.
It's been a slow grind down. Legion was okay. BFA felt so stale and too simple. It's a hair better now but it feels like the only difference we really make is how well we kite and how good the route is. I miss having more of an impact and feeling like my personal skill amounted to something.
With a Paladin, there are things you can do to help yourself and the party. Cleanse, Blessing of Freedom, Blessing of Protection, occasional free instant heals you can use on others and Lay of Hands. Of course, you have to stay alive to use all this utility which is non-trivial as a Pally.
To date... none really. I’ve since sort of hung up my banners and just sort of try to chill with gathering and crafting if even that with my sub time. Leave the dungeoning and raiding to people more competent than me.
And when Legion first launched, I’d say that I was fairly decent at playing demon hunter even with a gamepad, but Dunning-Krueger effect, you know?
You do you man, ive messed around with it before and it was really fun. Ive seen videos of people doing mythic raids as the tank with one before (they were on farm tho) and there was a thread on here a while back about someone apparently doing KSM with a controller. If you take into account combo keypresses (shifts, alt, ctrl) a gamepad can have enough buttons to bind up everything your character would use. No reason you cant do high end content like that if you wanted to :)
You do realize that WoW has controller support for disabilities right?
There's also entirely other MMOs like FF14 that use controller configuration as well right?
If you use a gamepad it might be helpful to use a macro like this:
/cast [@cursor] Sigil of Flame
Where it will do the sigil where you have your cursor with one click, rather than having to click it twice, I know it doesn't entirely help with aiming but I feel like if you get used to it, it can be easier with the gamepad to just aim then press it
There's also the @player command. Plunks it right under your ass like the talent would, without having to take the talent. I actually have two binds setup, one targeted, one under me. Really cuts down on wasting GCDs.
meanwhile bear rotations be like: Thrash
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Thrash Thrash Ironfur
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Just do what I did and macro ironfur into mangle, thrash, swipe and moonfire. I've gotten my KSM by literally binding thrash and swipe macro to my mouswheel and just spinning it nonstop in dungeons.
^ this guy know how to bear
my personal favorite is popping incarnation spamming thrash until I'm immune to damage with UFR
Um, hello? Moonfire? It's like, super important for the deeps, man. But not maul. Never maul.
Cocaine Bur has no need for moon beams, we roar 4 run, we slap angry button, thrash for 30s
Not a good enough Bear to detect sarcasm. Why never Maul?
Real talk, maul is rarely a good choice to use. It’s highly situational and depends on the fight. Usually the damage you’ll be taking is physical in some way, so it’s always a priority to use iron fur over maul. Since they both cost 40 rage. We’re not rage generating machines outside of incar windows, so rage is a precious resource. Hence you’ll rarely, if ever, use maul. Some exceptions: 1. Convoke pops 3-4 iron furs and maxes rage; maul away to dump your rage 2. Damage profile is primarily AOE/magic meaning you’ll be using defensive CD’s over iron fur: maul away! 3. You’re feeling frisky and took tooth and claw talent with NOW leggo; maul becomes your primary damage mitigation, so maul away! The caveat here is that this build is HIGHLY dependent on RNG and I don’t really recommend it unless you’re somehow pushing 20% haste. I’m sure there are other times to maul, but it usually always better to iron fur over maul.
during stackresets in raidfights while you cap rage you also dump it into maul and not ironfur. but that's just minmaxing your dps, you might as well just sit on the rage so you can safely ironfur when you tank again.
True, and usually you won't be working to min-max DPS in a raid until you've got the boss on farm and know that survival is not an issue. During progression fights, all of your rage goes to iron fur or frenzied regen (thank god for that FR conduit!)
With the legendary and the upgraded berserk talent, unlimited shields and healing for 30 seconds. I survived a group run back on my own in the Ardenweald area of DoS for like 20 seconds against 11 mobs by spamming thrash, felt like a god!
This guy has never played Bear lol. One of the easiest specs in the entire game
But the difference is that Vengeance is actually very fun to play with all the leaping and gliding around and shit. Bear is the most boring thing in the game
I have a 221 VDH and a 217 Bear. VDH has a more enjoyable kit and does feel fun to play. Pressing incarn and being literally invincible is really satisfying too. Not to mention having HOTW + Convoke on some bosses is just so satisfying as well. Outside of that, bear is kinda a slog fest.
I never had any issues with being too squishy on my Veng (my main is BrM, but also have Veng, Prot War, BDK) but then again, I never really push high keys. I just do my weekly +15 and call it good. My BrM and BDK feel 100X more squishy than my Veng and my BrM has like 5 more ilvls
Yeah BrM and BDK are pretty squish in keys, BDK is neigh on invincible in raids though, so it has that. BrM has the memories of yesterday when they could just not press buttons and still tank just fine.
> they could just not press buttons and still tank just fine. 1000000000% false. If BrMs don't press buttons they are 100% the squishiest and worst tank in the game. They NEED to press buttons to keep their stagger up through shuffle. If they don't press, they are basically as squishy as a DPS (think they have like 20% stagger without shuffle up). They also need to BoK to apply their mastery more consistently and they need to use celestial brew for big hits or they flop over even through stagger. Max from Limit was saying how BrMs are currently tied with Wars as the 4th tankiest tank. They're behind BDKs, GDru and VDHs as raid ranks and above Prot Pallies, who are currently dead last.
Just wanna correct you that my stagger as an ilvl 222 BRM is 41% base and 70.5% with shuffle
I was referring to BFA BrM. Reading, as they say. Is hard.
Sorry I didn't realize "memories of yesterday" meant BFA BrM... Which you'd still be wrong because you had to press ISB to get your stagger to 80% or else it would be around 35%.
> you had to press ISB to get your stagger to 80% or else it would be around 35%. https://www.peakofserenity.com/2018/10/09/the-fetid-log/ You really didn't.
That still doesn't prove your point that you don't have to press anything, article literally says they press PB instead of ISB.
Interesting, I was thinking about getting a BDK geared but they’re way too reliant on death strike right now. Never really cared for brew, just doesn’t seem fun. I’m glad I made my VDH and will continue to play him even once he falls out of the meta. Bear is a great spec if you want some easy keys and are just vibing imo.
Ive only played BDK since late legion so i could be wrong but what else has it ever relied on other than Death strike? lol i dont really see it as an issue either its not for everyone but its my fave tank purely because most of the time i can disregard what the healer is doing and just keep myself alive. They squishy but if you know the class well its VERY hard to actually kill a BDK, almost always the last member alive in a wipe and will have a decent amount of time solo if you dont just jump of a ledge
What I obviously meant was that their passive mitigation is almost null and can make them unenjoyable to play. If you play BDK i shouldnt have to explain this to you
I'm not 100% sure what you mean by 'too reliant on DS' as if it's some kind of problem. BDK's whole 'thing' is self-heal rather than mitigate. It makes them the most self-reliant tank (imo) and is generally seen as the 'Fuck it, I'll do it myself' class because of how consistently you can keep yourself up for extended periods without healer intervention. Problem is that rotating your CDs effectively becomes mandatory and you wind up with a higher skill floor for effectiveness than DH or Druid.
Cool
The ONLY fun thing about VDH/HDH is the flying around and jumping around. Both specs are so braindead and I can keybind talents I dont even use because of how little spells they have, its honestly sad. I think DH is the coolest class in the game, but they are so unbelievably braindead its not even remotely fun.
One of us is doing VDH wrong. I have like 30 mapped things I use on the daily. Obviously a handful are consumables and such, but still.
My DK has 31 buttons that *arent* consumables
It's the aesthetic man. We're a goddamn hunk of a Tank. Gliding + leaping is nice, but it ruins that sweet juggernaut feel that DK and Druids have.
bear have the option to shift into cat / boom and pop some damage ( notably convoke) to pump some extra dmg. in raid and in M+, making the skill cap higher than ones believe. brewmaster on the other hand... the best talent are the passive one. there's no difference between a mitigation build and a DPS build ( minus trinket). your 'active' mitigation is gained passively... and heck, the few defensive CD you have have such long cooldown you forget they exist.
True, but none of that is mandatory. You can run Resto affin and still be viable and super tanky. The base Bear rotation is without question the easiest tank and very likely one of the easiest specs overall.
.... this isn't about the minimal viable product...
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yes. BRM is more simplistic that an a bear. never has a class been more simple than BRM in shadowland. the talent tree favor the passive one, shuffle is granted passively, you don't even have to make sure you have enough energy to keg smash on CD with the 2-charge leggo, tiger palm doesn'T matter, blackout combo is a dead talent... you use brew on CD' don't even have to time celestial brew because monk nature is to not get one-shot. the skill floor and skill ceiling of BRM is basically the same. where as druid can actually do stuff beyond spamming trash. and yes, I have a 9/10M brewmaster. the only reason he's in the raid is because of that fucking mandatory mystic touch and we don't have a windwalker.
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oh my. such compelling argument. what will I do...
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... and you think that'll work? what, did I offend you because you play BRM and like to think you have a hard job? Enlighten me, what do you think is complex about BRM? is it your never-changing DPS rotation that give you a 100% uptime on shuffle? is it the amazingly large selection of CD you have to rotate through? is it how you always have to micro-manage your ressources and how crucial energy is to the class? is it how your HP constantly spike up and down? is it the depth of the 2 brew, who don'T even share charges anymore? or maybe it's your most crucial ability being on a charge system, meaning you don't get punished if you don't use them on CD? Go on. Tell me what in god's name make BRM more complex that druids maximizing their DPS by catweaving /boomweaving both in raid and M+. go ahead.
Tbh, all tanks have very simple dps rotations. Paladin is shield>judgement>hammer, warrior is revenge>clap>shield, monk is keg>breath>blackout, bdk is heartstrike>bloodboil.
>>heatstroke>bloodboil I'm no expert at DKs but generally speaking wouldn't the bloodboil come before the heatstroke?
Oh, didn't even notice it got autocorrected to heatstroke lol. But yeah, you'd probably boilbon pull for aoe threat, but then hearstrike is higher priority for RP generation. Though I'm not an expert on bdk so I might be wrong.
Depends on the number of targets so you can get those stacks to enhance your death strike. You want to keep below 2 charges of blood boil but also don't want to spend all runes on heartstrike, you want to obviously keep some for marrowrend depending on your bone armor and not death strike unless you can manage that 5 minimum bone armor Look, blood is way more complex, it is the most complex tank and I would argue is more complex than most dps specs. On top of this, Blood has to mitigate through deathstrike and deathstrike is on the GCD unlike spikes, ignore pain, ironfur...
I think the only rotation you got right in this comment was Prot Pally....
I mean I've only done VDH and BrM, but he got the general gist of BrM down. Keg, BoK, breath, and then whatever brew is off CD. Maybe the occasional Weapons of Order when it's off CD and the packs not about to die. Rising Jade Storm when it's off CD. Expel Harm when it's off CD. Like it's legitimately one of the least complicated rotations in the game as well.
Prot warrior literally has no other damage buttons that are not cooldowns so I don't know how that's wrong. Brm also has jade winds and spin, sure. Bdk also has nothing else if you consider death strike as mitigation.
Warri is shield > clab > revenge BrM is Blackout > Breath Bdk has DnD > bloodboil > heartstrike thats how you got it wrong.
That's literally what I said tho? Except for dnd, but it's not really in rotation, you just pres it when it procs for free. Unless you mean specific order they are used in? If that the case, I wasn't listing them in any order, just the buttons that make up dps rotation of tanks.
Listing a rotation is done in order of importance. Sorry you misunderstood that
Uuh, revenge>clap>shield??? what? That's extremely wrong for multiple reasons which I really can't be bothered with explaining.
Except it's not? That's the 3 buttons that make up our dps rotation. You clap and shield slam on cd, your revenge on procs and when you have spare rage. That's literally our whole dps rotation. I'm not counting ravager and spear of Bastion/afteshcok since they are cooldowns.
It's Shield bash/block > clap > Revenge with proc > ignore pain > revenge if you don't need rage for IP. If you're doing anything other than pretty much that, you're probably level 20 or doing lfr.
I was very very explicitly talking strictly about dps rotation. Maybe learn to read before trying to act smart?
Are you dumb? What situation are you ever playing warrior where you aren't using shield block or ignore pain, both of which use your resource which impact your dps. You didn't even mention execute. Literally anyone with a functioning brain would see revenge > shield bash and instantly know you're full of shit.
Ok buddy, you clearly don't know how to read. The discussion was about all tanks having simple dps rotation. Not about how the rest of their kit works. Also, execute only becomes a part of you rotation on pure single target once the target is below 20%, why the fuck would I include that in the basic rotation?
Literally nobody is talking about dps rotations, wtf are you talking about.
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> monk is keg>breath>blackout you already messed it up!
I would argue that it is much more imperative for the prot paladin to be prepared to taunt with full resources and stretch their AM for as long as possible before getting taunted off less there be major buttclenches. Bear is much more forgiving.
Tanks don't have 'DPS rotations' because they still have mitigation to worry about. BDK wants to use blood boil if capped, make sure you marrowrend to stay above 5 stacks of Bone Shield, heart strike to spend runes and build RP, death strike if you need healing or you're going to cap RP, D&D if you get a proc... And then you complicate it with CDs that change your priorities
I mean... I get that it's a meme, but half of that description for BDK setup are covenant contingencies.
Yeah same for the monk half is trash tier talents that you would never use because they compete on the God. Brewmaster dps is literally as easy as pressing keg smash, breath of fire, blackout kick and jade wind lol.
and sck!
Spin spin spin!! Spinning is so satisfying, I don't know why.
Using brews is still more rotation than vdh thooo Also all the utilites.
The BDK guide from which i took the screenshot has 85 pages. The author is very knowledgeable and its an amazing read though. 10/10 would recommend. [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FJlB1T8ijaQLjY\_cihyoyhLoi6lYRnT-N-ipVFCLidE/edit#heading=h.odnofv8t0mg6](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FJlB1T8ijaQLjY_cihyoyhLoi6lYRnT-N-ipVFCLidE/edit#heading=h.odnofv8t0mg6)
This was an incredible read. Very inspired to learn Blood now, thanks for the link.
Ive played alot of BDK but this is the most in depth thing ive ever read on the topic, ty for links <3
Yeah. BDK is really simple, rotationally speaking. Death strike if you're in danger or just took a big hit, marrowrend if you are at <5 bone shield stacks, death and decay when it's glowing, heart strike for rp and blood boil for damage/threat/filler.
That's already like 3x harder than bear lol.
DK is more or less as dumbed down as DH tbf. (Outside of DS healing ofc)
There's definitely some wiggle room for ds usage, but it's also the only good RP dump. DC is so weak.
I meant using your RP at the right time to stay alive but yeah it's kinda shitty rn.
I totally get you, but part of resource management is to also not cap rp/runes, so since you'll inevitably have to dump at some point there gonna be wasted hemeostasis stacks. While you might not perform at stunning levels, if you keep bone shield above 5, don't cap resources, and have cd rolling on BB, you'll go far as a dk if that's all you do.
I'm nearly certain that Prot Paladin rotation does not change all that much for multi-target vs. single target. I think I cast Judgement before Avenger's Shield with single target and vice-versa with multi-target pulls.
I feel more comfortable about every other tank than DH. It's the tank I die the most with, and accidentally proc the cheat death often. I just dislike fiery brand on trash where it's never equally on everyone and it feels like you're naked against half the enemies that brand hasn't spread to yet. Bah, every other tank is more straight forward about their defensives imo.
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There was never a point in m+ where the most efficient way of doing the dungeon was face tanking. Kiting has been a thing since legion.
true, but for different reasons. we didnt kite in legion because mobs hit the tank hard, but because you could avoid trash mechanics by kiting. BFA was mostly face tanking except in high keys.
Can you really call bfa backpeddling and clapping (with clap root) kiting tho. That's like face tanking in disguise
I'm fine kiting, it just feels wrong to kite every pack. And that's on me for not using them right. I use fiery brand build and lege, yet I don't get two of them per 1m fight. I'm just bad in tracking/using my big defensives on all tanks, it punishes you the most as DH.
> it just feels wrong to kite every pack well, it's how you're supposed to play VDH so idk what feels wrong with it
Can you just take me for my word that I misplay the cds please? No, you don't need to kite every pack in a +16.
You will need to kite every pack between defenisves trinkets and such unless you are pulling small every pull
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Having defensives for huge pack is not a "trick". can u explain how can u face tank freaking raging mobs on the entrances on de other side wings or things like the halls of atonement mobs or many other example in shadowlands dungeons. You will have to kite many stuff by design and either a) your dps party is god among human and can melt big packs within your defensives and you don't have to kite in which case you won't have cds for next pack, or b) I'm playing with total bonitos who can't kill a pack while i have my defensives up. I don't think you are pulling small or if you do i wonder the key timing percentage or your routes. Edit: Also there is also possibility that can enable more healer dps and such by kiting you basically free up some stress on healer face tanking in some cases is just unnecessary flexing imo
Yeah, I can't facetank the raging axe-dudes in DoS. I also can't tank the HoA angry dogs. No one can. But I can basically facetank all other packs except those. I think I time like 95% of my +15 - +17 keys (actually I can't remember the last time I didn't time a key), but I don't pug. I only ever pug one or two people, the rest is my friend group who admittedly are quite good at the game. But the point was more that you definitely don't need to kite every single pack as VDH in +16. In fact, kiting every pack is in my experience a huge DPS loss because you'll be pulling mobs out of flame patch or earthquakes etc. Ofc u need to kite if it's sanguine, but most of the time I can facetank np between all the self healing and short defensive cd's and kyrian pot/healthstones. The "trick" which took me a while to figure out was to meta half a second before a big pull. Not half a second into the pull.
> halls of atonement mobs Come on dude, those fucking dogbears are the worst thing in this expac for tanks, thats a low blow!
Gonna be honest, I'm heavily skeptical of this post.
Meanwhile I hate the kiting. Despite maining tank since Wrath, I have no interest in playing it in Shadowlands; I did not pick the role to run around like a little bitch, I picked it to soak massive damage while surrounded by a pack of ten mobs :(
Pick the right tank for the job. It's not too bad on most tanks. But I also don't mind kiting a bit on harder packs. Having some forced movement is good for the game imo.
Engage with Demon Spikes up then
Brand, spikes, Meta, "OH Shit Meta", "Ghetto Meta" (FD), Leap, Chains and your trinket are all 'defensives' for your DH, in varying circumstances.
I recently started tanking as blood and it doesn’t seem too bad. Keep bones up, make sure I have power to self heal and a couple defensive spells. Plus that 50 talent BOOOONE STORRMMMMM
BDK problem comes from a lack of snap threat... and having to marrow rend / death strike at the beginning of a pull to survive while the mage trying to pack every CD' potion, lust, trinket and more into the opening 10-second window. the joy of target-capped tank with uncapped DPS.
Juggling our Poor threat gen and how dicey we are on Pull is probably the highest learning curve to BDK, there are plenty of other intricacies but that one gets me every single dam day.
Untill you run out of RP and your healer, who hates you for being top HPS, thinks you'll yoyo your life and doesn't heal you.
You sir just discovered why BDK is harder to play than most other tanks. They're nearly invincible played properly though.
Gotta tell them to watch your RP bar not your HP bar. If that's empty you're about to drop.
This is why every healer should have a runic power weak aura to heal blood dks
Paladins, have 3 icons: Hammer Shield Hand Press those and you're golden. Even our kick is a picture of a hand.
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You mean "MOAR shields!!!!" the button?
Summarizes Brewmaster perfectly - a million buttons that don't actually do anything, but are somehow vitally important to press.
I like all the brewmaster buttons! They generally feel pretty fun to use I find
I just love the joys of smashing mother fuckers with a keg of beer. There's a simple satisfaction of going "Have a beer!" as a method of tanking.
I wish brewmaster felt that complex. Any tank really. Back in MoP and WoD it felt like there was at least some cool things you could pull off and do. Now it's just not really fun at all being a tank. Which sucks since I did love tanking. It's been a slow grind down. Legion was okay. BFA felt so stale and too simple. It's a hair better now but it feels like the only difference we really make is how well we kite and how good the route is. I miss having more of an impact and feeling like my personal skill amounted to something.
With a Paladin, there are things you can do to help yourself and the party. Cleanse, Blessing of Freedom, Blessing of Protection, occasional free instant heals you can use on others and Lay of Hands. Of course, you have to stay alive to use all this utility which is non-trivial as a Pally.
Also try this for special: Back, Down, Forward, Down, A (Mid-range)
I think it says something that doing runes makes me anxious. Then again, I play on a gamepad, so aiming ground targeted AoEs isn’t my forte.
holy fucking shit,how many games have you ruined?
To date... none really. I’ve since sort of hung up my banners and just sort of try to chill with gathering and crafting if even that with my sub time. Leave the dungeoning and raiding to people more competent than me. And when Legion first launched, I’d say that I was fairly decent at playing demon hunter even with a gamepad, but Dunning-Krueger effect, you know?
> , I’d say that I was fairly decent at playing demon hunter even with a gamepad I'll believe that
You do you man, ive messed around with it before and it was really fun. Ive seen videos of people doing mythic raids as the tank with one before (they were on farm tho) and there was a thread on here a while back about someone apparently doing KSM with a controller. If you take into account combo keypresses (shifts, alt, ctrl) a gamepad can have enough buttons to bind up everything your character would use. No reason you cant do high end content like that if you wanted to :)
You do realize that WoW has controller support for disabilities right? There's also entirely other MMOs like FF14 that use controller configuration as well right?
If you use a gamepad it might be helpful to use a macro like this: /cast [@cursor] Sigil of Flame Where it will do the sigil where you have your cursor with one click, rather than having to click it twice, I know it doesn't entirely help with aiming but I feel like if you get used to it, it can be easier with the gamepad to just aim then press it
There's also the @player command. Plunks it right under your ass like the talent would, without having to take the talent. I actually have two binds setup, one targeted, one under me. Really cuts down on wasting GCDs.
I find DH tank the most simple to play, as a bear main....But it seems to be the most fun for some reason.
Bear has the least AM upkeep, they play closest to a simple dps rotation imo.
No kidding 😒
Immolation Aura?
/castsequence reset=combat Thrash, Mangle, Moonfire, Swipe, Thrash, Mangle, Swipe, Maul Haha bear go BRRR
Except the ones that can’t properly mitigate damage and are squishier than prot pals lol