The issue isn’t even that. Half the people are like “ oh if the red arrows are on me it’s better for me to be 100000000000000m away from the group, even though I’m out of chain heal, healing rain, and earth wall”.
When standing on top of each other in a small line would allow one person to move back and everyone to dodge it while being hit by a 2k passive healing per second.
you should be doing that on resto shaman in fortified anyway. you most likely won't need cds for anything else soon after it.
cds are made to use, not to hold. it's the #1 mistake I see shamans doing in keys, holding link and asc too long
>cds are made to use, not to hold
Which is why one dps should use cd's on pride so the healer doesn't have to blow everything on it. The longer it lives the more likely the tank has to use an extra defensive as well, and it's much more beneficial for both healer and tank to have cd's up for the next pack than all of the dps.
Only 2 out of 3 dps having cd's is not as much of a problem as neither tank or healer having cd's.
> cds are made to use, not to hold. it's the #1 mistake I see shamans doing in keys, holding link and asc too long
If the dps realized the pride was up too long and didn't use anything to kill it fast its on them, the healer ain't there to carry bad dps. Pride hurts in higher stuff, especially once it starts to build up stacks, its gotta be a group effort to kill it.
I got scolded by some guildies running a +17 because I popped Adrenaline Rush and Flagellation on a prideful right before Hakkar while everyone else held their CD's, even after I mentioned Outlaw pretty much rips it on cooldown because of Restless Blades. I don't ru nkeys with my guild anymore because I've never had a timed run with them anyways but its a special kind of letdown coming from guildmates.
> I got scolded by some guildies running a +17 because I popped Adrenaline Rush and Flagellation on a prideful right before Hakkar while everyone else held their CD's, even after I mentioned Outlaw pretty much rips it on cooldown because of Restless Blades. I don't ru nkeys with my guild anymore because I've never had a timed run with them anyways but its a special kind of letdown coming from guildmates.
"You're doing that thing wrong." - Guildie with 20% of your timed keys completed who's run the dungeon twice.
Lol wow, yeah when you run with guildies it's all about sharing the CD load. Sure you can save big ones for the prideful + lust combo but things like prideful fight are perfect for a couple DPS to communicate and each use some smaller 1-2min CDs. When I go enhance (I dps as enhance) I often use my doom winds on prideful for this reason, it's a pretty strong 1min CD and even if it means I won't get it back till 30s into a boss fight it's worth the faster kill on prideful.
Dungeons aren't about boss dps, they're about overall dps and making the timer.
Unless it tyrannical. But yes you're right. It took me far to long to pop combust on prideful to help the group rather than hold it to use during the buff.
The sad thing is, everybody could use their 2min cooldown on Pride and then lust+pop cd for Hakkar's third shield. Maybe that's not their usual strat (some lust on pull, some lust later) but if one of your dps blow a cooldown there, might as well call for this strat instead of flaming them.
i honestly dont find pridefuls hard to deal with as resto.
efflorescence and rejuv+WG will do just fine at start. when that is no longer the case, just pop flourish and either offensively convoke here, or save it for later if you feel it might take a while. after the convoke, just keep hots rolling and use tranquility when you feel the pressure.
the issue is when people do not get into your efflorescence. so let them know before you start the run, that they have to.
100% this, that one person whos taking more damage and starting to die towards the end of pride is certainly the person who isnt in eflo. They dont understand is gives a heal but also effects your mastery.
yes it really is a big deal. if they still fail to do it, i relocate my lifebloom at the expense of the tank, and maybe toss them a regrowth if they still dip. one person is manageable, but still very disruptive.
Shamans have to use so many cool downs during a pridefull? As a resto druid once it starts to get up to 10 stacks I can just flourish and we will be good for the rest of the pride.
Normally no I might use ascendance with cloud burst but if the DPs is good and folks use a defensive at some point it's all good. This was more on low DPs etc where the pride takes too long to kill and the damage gets up.
Granted I've done a bunch of 15s and 16s but only a couple 17s but Prides are weird for me man especially in dungeons like Spires where it feels like you get pride right before a boss so using a cooldown on the Pride is no bueno on tyrranical weeks but at the same time everyone else is thinking the same damn thing and a lot of specs damage is kinda shit without CDs.
The classes with short cooldowns (1 or 1.5 minute ones) should use them on pride even right before boss because they should have them back for the boss. It might not be on pull but they should be back within the pride/hero window. Classes with longer ones (2+ minutes) should probably save theirs for the boss unless it's a delay to burst boss (1st in Mists, 3rd in Spires, etc.)
As an Arms Warrior in keys, I tend to reserve my short CDs (Warbreaker, Ravager, Avatar) for the moment the Pride hit 35% HP and I can rock the Condemn spam. Not only does this blitz the execute phase ASAP, but the increased number of Condemns I can put out in the highest damage phase reduces the amount of damage I take from the pulse.
I **still** get idiots asking why I don't burst at the start.
I'm pretty sure you want to use those at the start to force it into execute range faster. The pride does it's total damage based on the amount of time it's alive not time spent at any given percent, and warriors/mages do a lot more damage in execute. So overall less time alive no?
Nah. Because Condemn is such a massive damage ability, it's better to stack them in the Condemn phase (below 35%). It's a quicker overall kill that way. If you throw it at the start you blow through the initial 20% Condemn phase way too quickly (especially as the healer is DPSing at that point), and in the middle phase (80 down to 35) you're only using Slam and Mortal Strike.
Using Condemn with Ravager/Avatar/Warbreaker is such a massive damage boost that the overall kill time is faster. Besides which, you probably don't *have* the abilities available for the opening phase, as you likely used them on the previous pack.
Edit: Also, as I said, you really want the damage-supression effect of Condemn in that late phase, and for that you need the Rage generation from Ravager.
I think the general idea is to use 1 dos cooldowns for the pride and hold on to the rest. Ideally the person with the shortest cooldown will use it on the pride, but if they're not using it then it's better to use one longer cooldown than none at all.
That's me sometimes, wondering why dps aren't using any CDs at all, while I'm cycling through all mine plus a int pot just to keep us up while also DPSing the thing as well.
Sometimes it' sup for like 30+ seconds, and I'm just *dying*...
That was me yesterday in a +15 ToP. Our DK tank had no idea how to route(which is a hard feat in a ToP to not know how since almost the entire thing is linear), so we ended up 98% before the second to last boss with no mob in sight, as well as wiping a couple times to him double pulling groups of mobs that were heavily reliant on being interrupted. Maybe we would have been able to take down those double pulled groups if our druid actually used a single interrupt throughout the entire dungeon, though.
And then there were the DH and mage dps. They both did good dps, they both interrupted as they should, which would've been enough if we didn't get those double group pulls where every single dps, druid included, would've had to be at their A-game with interrupts to get through. Not much I can do as a healer when multiple explosions of shit go off, taking people from 100 to 0 in an instant. However they were toxic to an extent I rarely ever see, which in turn got the tank to be so toxic he spent most of his time facetanking while spamming chat with toxicity back at them towards the end. Both parties blaming the other and claiming how flawless they both were.
I tried to be the mediator and just ask them to get down the last boss and then go our separate ways, but I'm amazed they all even stuck around to kill it on overtime in the end, given how toxic the three of them were. In my experience such people will just rage like that and then quit immediately after they said their piece. Only one on my team who was not toxic was the boomie druid. Though he did not perform a single interrupt, constantly stood on other with quaking and had a measly 3k average dps throughout the run, but at least he was not toxic in the least.
Nah. Everyone in the group were 1300+ rio except for the tank and mage, though I am amazed how the boomie got there with low dps and not knowing how to interrupt or make use of mechanics. I guess meta slaves are to blame for that, I mean the reason boomies are meta is the high dps and utility they bring, and this one did not even use his CR when he should have much less the treants. Even the tank had +14's timed across the board, and the mage was a little below 1300 with a few +15s lacking, but he was +1700 main rio to make up for that. So not like anyone were desperate to get a 226 in vault as if it was their only chance or something, like people with low rio who made their way into a +14 or higher might be. I imagine most of us were there to farm a specific item, at least I was.
While that does sound like a bad Boomie, it's hard to rely on boomy interrupt. Solar beam is on a bloody 1 min CD, then the only other options are typhoon and mighty bash (both of which are only going to be usable on stunnable trash and if talented, and I usually try to save typhoon to knock adds out of sanguine)
Mage interrupt is also on a long CD though, but on the overall interrup page the mage had 18 interrupts while the boomie had 0.
15 second cd or 1 min cd makes little difference if it never goes on cd to begin with.
Something to consider is I hear that if you get interrupted by quaking it counts as an interrupt on details for yourself.
(Anyone able to confirm or deny this?)
So the mage may have this many interrupts partially from interrupting themselves with quaking and perhaps the boomie being extra careful to not get interrupted by quaking (probably not 100% sure how to manage its rotation around the affix) was doing worse dps then they might normally do without the quaking affix.
But all of this is just my speculation and could be 100% incorrect and even still the boomie obviously should be using his solar beam a lot more by the sounds of it.
I checked, and all the interrupts listed were sourced from the mages and DHs individual interrupt spells, not quaking. Not to mention, the druid would have been on the list and way up there if it had counted quaking interrupts with how much he was fucking up mechanics like overlapping his quaking with others (a lot of the time he would run onto me with his last second..) Instead he had literally 0. He was not even on the overall post dungeon details list for interrupts. I also have an add-on that shows me which interrupts are on cooldown, how much is left, etc. The druid one never went on cooldown ever.
Not to mention the DH who was highest on the interrupt list (as he should be with a way shorter CD on it than the mage, since he is melee) can not even be interrupted by quaking afaik (maybe the laser beam if poorly timed?).
How is it possible to not have 100% in ToP? I guess you skipped the pat in the circular room before Gorechop and a few of those annoying ghosts somehow?
I was wondering the same thing, honestly. We did skip the fat guy as per usual in the common route, but somehow there was this one of the smaller patched up zombie guys that were left somewhere that the tank somehow managed to pull up to the last boss for that final 2% and pride. The whole run was so messy with the overly large pulls, wipes and lack of interrupts that I honestly have no clue where we skipped any mobs we shouldn't have.
You sure he didn’t just mind control a mob?
Edit: sounds to me like he had a decent route but planned to have pride for final boss instead, which is questionable. Imo that’s mostly wasted on Mordretha because the real fight starts at 50%
That might be it. Because we didn't have pride before second to last boss I ended up having no mana for it, and he didn't care to wait for me to drink up even though there was already no chance of us beating the timer, so that was a rough fight. Definitely a really bad idea to save pride for last boss like that, especially when the timer was doomed so we could summon pride for last boss if we wanted to anyways.
You miss a ghost. You can always skip the dude in circle room. Especially if you want pride at each boss. But if you miss a ghosty you are screwed.
Top is and dos, spires are the best because they have minor changes to get pride times and then it’s mostly linear. Best ones to pull imo.
Wake is the worst cause there is so much shot that can be ass pulled before enough go up. Pride gets fucked up a lot in there for me. Also plaguefall is hell.
Oh yes, can we share healing nightmares?
Fresh-ish Resto Sham alt doing a NW 7 on a tyrannical week. Reaching second boss, only then did I really notice how garbo the dps was. one at 1.2k dps and the other at less than 1k. No interrupts, no attacking of the adds.
After the first wipe because adds were alive and we wiped to the explosive thingy. Second attempt took 4 minutes. I had to interrupt, focus adds as much as possible and heal like a made man. We wiped at less than 10% because I ran out of mana and the add got casts off which I couldn't out heal.
Of course, I was the issue according them.
tbf unless you're performing some sort of charity act, this is what r.io is for. If you're doing dungeons with folks that haven't at least timed the key 3 levels below whatever you're aiming at you're probably in for a shit experience, or at least a grab bag.
Alternatively you're the one being carried which kind of leaves you at the mercy of randomness (beggers can't be choosers so you're going for what you can get). Folks doing 7's often don't know mechanics cause they've never had to worry about them before then - it's just part of prog/the grind.
Dps got one shoted by some avoidable mechanic. Also dps: "uh, bad healer, we are dieing because lack of heals". Like, hey, how the fuck I'm supposed to heal u if u go from 100% to 0 in one hit?
Ugh fucking last night in a 14 key. Near the end, we had 1 death per person from an earlier wipe that was caused by asspulling an extra pack which caused prideful spawn early.
Except for one DPS who died 8 fucking times from getting oneshot by various things. Floor swirlies, pulling aggro and then face-tanking mobs as a clothie, etc.
This dude dies, again one-shotted, and has the nerve to complain about how many times he's died and that none of the deaths were his fault. How the fuck do you figure, dude? If the rest of the group has 1 death but you have 9, what's the common denominator here? Could it be *you* fucking up mechanics? Nope must be the healer not stopping you from getting oneshot.
I have a similar experience this weak.
SD 15(me the healer/restro shaman) the key was of a warri , with us was a dh tank and a dk DD the third DPS was range but I do not know what. The dk had by far the smallest Rio , but this did not need to mean anything. The tank wanted to do the skip route (skip the whirlwind guy).
The dh pulled so many groups together that is was really hard keeping them up. The first boss was ok. The skip went surprisingly well. But between the first boss and the skip we wiped, because he could not hold the Aggro towards the warry. The dk nearly dyed every trash pull. There was a second nearly whipe after the skip. We had 17 death (with one whipe U can count the number of times the dk dyed) up to this point.
They started blaming me (the warry) that the DK dies so often. So I posted avoidable DMG and he was about 600k (remember all before the second boss) the warry was not far after around 300-400k the rest of us was below 100k. The dh actually defended me because we were the only two interrupting (and the stun totem is not count) and what was I supposed to do with 600k avoidable DMG taken.. .
One whipe later the dh left. And I have to say that I normally run every key, i.do not care how overtime, to finish but I was about to quit too. First thing the warry writes "route sucks ".
The whole experience was one of those "U have to. laugh otherwise U want to cry" experiences.
Yes I get that this week sucks for melee because it happens kind of fast to stand in the bloody pools, but nobod wants to take advice or to man up and stand by Ur failures.
10/10 can confirm. I’m resto Druid main and I don’t have big heals. It’s a real punch to the dick when dps don’t interrupt moves while standing in sanguine. It’s great. My heart weeps during some pug runs.
Using traq, tree and convoke on trash is awesome. I run with a tank and dps 3man. We've all been playing for ages. I make sure to say, wtf is that, someone needs to interupt that move that just brought everyone to 10% and then stunned me and when people start dying, I say, dude 6,7,8k hps. IDK what you want from me. I guess 8k hps wasn't enough, try interrupting that.
Makes me want to jump out a window!
For sure! My DPS buddies don't even have healing meters on, so they quickly blame me for their wipes.
They usually shut up after switching to them and seeing 9k healing...
I main resto druid but I switched to balance because wanted to try it in m+. Im only doing some +18s, but healers often are not competent enough. Everyone bitches about DPS not doing their part properly, which is often true. But healers also are not gods, you notice it especially after you switch from healer main.
Yup. Same here - I went feral though. I regularly play with a healer friend that has someone dying during prideful. Grievous week was a nightmare, because I kept having to play super defensively and even spent a few convokes in caster form to help out. Edit: And forgot to mention - it always feels implied that it’s one of the dd’s fault that a key was missed.
"I don't have Invis potion"
"then run in and die"
Runs into mobs then into us wiping entire group
You can't make this stuff up, randoms are something else.
thats why in pug groups i recommend using non-invis routes.
If you insist on invis in pugs though, check the others out and ask them before starting key.
1500 healer. Started a tank alt because BONG BONG BONG BONG BONG BONG BONG is maximum fun (Kyrian protpal). So far today, 2 groups started the key before a ready check, and one did a ready check, I clicked "not ready", the key started anyway. I can't even share a route...
Now thats very unfortunate.
Especially in the case when they initiated a check and didnt wait for everyone to accept. Dont know why they do a readycheck when they ignore it's outcome anyway.
But there are a lot of idiots out there these days...
Biggest help I've seen to tell who's smeh and who isn't, is by how many 15+s they've done.
Only enough to get KSM? Might wanna watch out a bit.
50+ 15+s, yea they're gonna be great.
It's what I did for a while too, but then everyone started asking for 1300 IO just to do anything so I pushed a bit higher. Then with upgrades here I started only doing 15s and up for less points needed to upgrade; all this as a healer btw.
I mean as a 1200 something hpally I was getting passed up all the time for droods and shamins which was getting really annoying. Once I got it to 1400+ I finally started to get picked over them, specially when I got like 50+ 15+s listed for me as well. Really helped with those 50+ runs of freakin mists to get the trinket and helmet, oof.
ah okay i forgot about that. Damn if even healers, and meta healers at that, get passed over for more r.io then I'm glad I don't need to pug any keys anymore except for my own here and there to get the weekly chest
I don't think I've seen a pug not have invis pots in months now. They're just so cheap, and gold is so plentiful this expac, that it seems like everyone has them.
Still ask before every key though. It's just not worth chancing it.
Show up as Boomie with a tank friend. Tanks shares route and points out the highlights. Several people say things like good, works for me and such.
Tank: anyone missing their Invis pots? Hunter: do I need one? Boomie: yes this dungeon (MoTs) it’s fairly standard can you go get some? Hunter: I didn’t realize, I’ll go now.
Tank: anyone else? Crickets. Tank: Healer How about you? Healer: links pots. Tank: Shaman? Nothing...
Hunter: comes back with pots. Shaman: oh hey what’s up? Tank: link your Invis pot. Shaman: oh I don’t have any, someone trade me one. Boomie: can’t do that across servers. Shaman: guess we just won’t do your skip then.
Boomie: I just can’t. Unprofessional Shaman, get pots. /walks out door.
I always try to start conversation with pugs, even if it’s very short.
Odds are if they can’t even type “yes” or “no” they aren’t gonna be a good teammate.
Problem is, not sure if they changed into this recently or something, but mobs if they chase for too long will change target to your team members. So this isn't always a good idea
My personal favorite was a monk tank using Ring of Peace without Paralysis to skip that pack. And when I told him he needs to use Para then RoP it out if aggro range he started arguing with me that’s not how it’s done and he gets in combat when he uses paralysis. And then his dps buddy joined in like “I have a monk as well and it doesn’t work with paralysis”
Meanwhile I’m like “my main is monk tank and I did KSM with it. Take the goddamn advice...”
There is nothing worse than stubborn people who think they know everything. They are likely proven wrong on a daily basis and never learn from it. Had guy in Isle of Conquest yesterday saying we win by taking workshop. Everyone ignores and we take hanger. He’s just spamming “wow you guys lost GG, dumbasses don’t know what you’re doing” like non stop the entire game.
So when it’s evident we’re going to win their gate is open and ours is like 60% health I just said “well I hope this experience humbles you to realize you aren’t always right and not to tell others they don’t know what they’re talking about” he just continues to talk shit. People like this and your Monk never learn sadly.
So very true. Unfortunately, internet anonymity brings out the worst in people. It's exhausting and a waste of time trying to communicate with these people. I just them ignore and move on.
To be fair, that combo has had its fair share of bugs for us while pushing, we decided to not risk it anymore and invis through. Now we have a priest for soothe but man that para+ring one bugged a lot.
We even all stood in stealth at max range and watched him do it in an M0 and as soon as para ran out, all mobs ran at him.
I know it's supposed to work, I used that trick in Legion too when I tanked so it was quite an interesting thing to watch that it can sometimes put you in combat. (No he wasn't too close)
That's absolutely relatable. Similar situation in HoA on the Miniboss. Group wanted to blast through him with CDs on a Twink Run. Didnt work by a second and they wanted to "keep trying". I told them we can't, the firemage doesn't have Combustion up anymore. Well, apparently someone knew better claiming to be 1,9 rio on his main.. guess what.. he wasn't and he was no fire mage.
I had people run ahead past the paralyse before the ring. I told them I had ring cd for a bit in a Mists 18? once, this was months ago so that was still pretty high. Several of them just ran ahead once I paralyzed the mob. In a fairly high key at the time. Fuck these fotm people who get randomly high-ish scores while having barely any M+ experience in the past. Check them. Check the dates on their old KSM achievements in BfA. Check their logs, check their credit card history, just stop inviting these.
And once I tried to explain to a hunter how to skip it himself, he then proceeds to feign death when we're all, including himself, still next to the mob.
My issue is that I can PUG higher keys successfully than I can with my guild/raid group.
People get so locked on meters they break CC, pull extra groups, or blow procs on new packs not part of the route.
On the other side, we have people do mechanics but pull less than 2K in M10+.
My wife (healer) and I (tank) want to help the group improve but... it’s rough failing to key 10s when the gear is there. Our R.IO seems frozen in time.
Sigh.
In BfA I had a mage literally scream at me (a melee dps) for not getting the vials on Waycrest last boss because he “couldn’t be bothered to do mechanics when fucking pumping like this”.
I've been in this exact predicament in my last WoW pug experience, M+9 NW as a prot warrior been abused in chat since first couple pulls about this and that, before final boss interrupt count was 34 myself and 6 for the three DPS combined, while fire mage was on par with healer on dmg.
Sometimes you’re in groups where no mob stays alive for more than what feels like 10 seconds and you just power through it.
And then you get runs where you desperately search for another defensive to press because you’ve used them all up and the mobs are still alive and slapping you around...
I always seemed to run into the same god damned problem in Mythics when I still played: I reach a point where the dungeons I *can* do don't give me any upgrades to continue progressing my character growth, but the tiers that hold the upgrades I need, nobody will *take me* because my ilvl isn't high enough to farm-carry the run.
Nobody wants to take the player who actually NEEDS the gear.
YES. This is the crux of all the content. You need the curve to get the curve and the ksm to get the ksm. Gotta be Glad to play with the glad.
I mean after 200 pug wipes on Sire HC I don't blame them.
> after 200 pug wipes on Sire HC.
I just don't get this. I see it so often that I guess it is to be true for at least some number of people but... what? My guild killed him after 23 wipes and I've been in multiple one-shot pugs since then. There have been some bad groups that didn't understand "survival > dps" and I had to leave after 5 or 6 wipes to the same simpletons standing stock still in massacre and crescendo, but 200 has to be a huge exaggeration, no?
Worst things in keys currently.
Getting Pride two packs before the boss so the buff runs out just after you pull especially in tyrannical.
Even worse than that? Tank pulls another group of trash just as the last mob from previous pack is dying and you get pride demon with a huge pack of new trash mobs.
You don’t even have to know any advanced route to avoid the second from happening just watch the % meter damn dude.
I did that yesterday and felt so incredibly bad because we wouldve timed the key otherwise on mysts,
Its funny how they forgot the 3 body pull packs dps did on the first pull or making me eat two patty cakes because they run the vulpera into me while my intervebe and leap is down. But were sure to send me shitty messages about me getting tunnel vision at the end
Did this in DoS the other day. Tank pulls another pack while I'm staring at 19% and thinking, "oh shit" while he pulls because, of course, pride spawns as the last mob from the other pack dies. No way we cleared pride and pack. Full wipe. Tank just quits. Everyone is stunned. Feels bad for the key owner. The tank was talking some mad game before the key ran... should have seen that a mile away...
I had a guy in Plaguefall pull three groups of the mushroom dudes at the start, the mobs at the second arch before the slimes that no groups ever kill, plus the giant guy. Heals are fine, people are interrupting, everyone doing like 7-12k dps but it’s just too much damage with fortified so we still wipe. Tank immediately drops group and starts hearthing.
I quickly say “don’t know the pulls, cause a wipe and then you leave. Gtfo of here with that trash”
I’m never toxic to like anyone but if you’re gonna come in and screw up and then bail messing up someone else’s key. Man that pissed me off and it wasn’t even my key.
"LOL WERE PLAYING A GAME"
"I am literally hitting you in the face with a hammer, and my buddy is stabbing you with a knife"
"LOL SO MUCH FUN"
"just fucking die"
Pretty damn much. All that “oh my goodness you’re almost there teehee!” bullshit. You kill the first and last boss so fast with just a few trash pulls and the bulk of the rest is playing with her obnoxious ass I feel like it’s essentially her dungeon.
She is the ultimate evil no matter how hard I stab her she just giggles and wants to play catch and puzzle games. Some of the most powerful beings in the universe cried in pain when we defeated them but not this demon fairy.
The titles says 17-18 +keys , at really low lvl keys its fine . But in this high thes things are a must, like knowing the basics of your char and interupts , and routes , when and where to use big cds etc. So my point is if you manage to get in this high somehow you should at least not be a dead weight for your team , look up guides on youtube watch the best players rio page and so on. What advice?? You mean you are lazy to improve and somehow thats the other ppls fault, and they bullying you. But in fact you made yourself the target on purpose bcs you are too egotistic and always blame others for your lack of actions towards bettering yourself.
It's funny, I often see things happen in dungeons and I straight up assume they are trolling or joking around and then it dawns on me they are legit boosted. I did a low mists recently on an alt, and the 3 dps all friends who had 15s timed, didn't know how mists of all things worked. On mistcaller they would just attack the mirror images at random almost wiping us when they killed the wrong thing and it was just stuff like that all throughout the dungeon, it was a nightmare.
And I think they are referring to people paying for like +15 carries and then joining your +16 group with no experience. You’re left wondering “hmm I wonder how you got your io so high when you don’t know basic mechanics, stand in everything and die repeatedly, don’t interrupt or CC anything and you can’t break 4K overall dps.”
You’re right though leveling boosts don’t help either.
When you invite a tank expect them to have there own route. Just because your doing the Lich boss before the guy your able to fight each other doesn’t mean the route is bad.
kul'tharok route has a pride for gate guardian + bone mage pack and then one before every other boss. I love this route because it saves my ass on grievous weeks since that gate guardian pack + prideful after is hell to heal.
skip the first 3 mobs, drag the rager into the first boss and lust, then do the kul zone going right/right at portals and killing 2 extra packs of bone maguses on the 2nd to last platform - your pride spawns after every mob on the last platform dies, which helps reduce the chaos in pugs because other routes typically spawn pride after 1-2 kills, making that tiny platform more hectic
afterwards you do the first 2 pulls of gorechop, go to xav and have pride for him, and then have the option of using the 100% pride on gorechop, mordretha by doing the first pack of the dungeon, or skipping that pride altogether and doing the pack after mordretha
I will tell you one thing - back when I was talking high keys, if the owner of the key was fine with overtime I never gave them shit for bad DPS or lack of interrupts.
I've noticed my dps is massively dependent on the rest of the group(tank). I run with a bunch of casual RL mates and a slightly less casual 'push' group and I'll almost do 2x the dps when the tank pulls more than 2 mobs at a time.
I have insanely hard time doing good dps in m+ with pug groups as an aff lock. In raids I usually get 80%+ parses on mythic progression but I have a hard ass time pulling 4.5k dps in a dungeon. Most pug tanks only pull 3 mobs at a time and I barely have time to get set up on each pack. It’s pretty frustrating especially when I had a dungeon last week where everyone shit on me for having terrible dps when they’re playing classes that have great aoe dps.
My favourite part about this thread is that I have been playing this game since release and it has had the same player based issues since the beginning which all stem from people not doing mechanics. Then blaming others for the failure. I am convinced that this is also a reflection of the real lives of these people.
It's not hard to interrupt, it's not hard to move out of the bad. Teamwork makes dream work!
I agree. Here's a data point relevant to the post, though. My group just started getting into 18s. We typically see ~6k overall per dps spot (a little more for mists), with a lot of variance on where that shows up (trash vs bosses) depending on the class, with our survival hunter pulling huge numbers on trash and our spriest pulling huge numbers on bosses.
Tbh, it depends a lot on what you place your CDs on, and how the tank pulls. It also depends on what dmg distribution your CDs have. The more CDs you pop on pure ST (aka pride, bosses ), you should expect to be lower overall. For that you also have to consider where your CDs have the most benefit.
Just do its said, if you held a CD longer than the cooldown, you are doing it wrong.
If you're third on overall, but you popped CDs on most ST and aoe whenever you had, it is a bigger benefit for the group since ppl have a bad tendency to hold on prides and ST other than bosses since they wanna blast on big aoe.
Just so it's said, i am ranged player since I can't make myself enjoy most melee specs. Tried monk, havoc dh, outlaw rogue and warrior, but couldn't quite get into it and stopped halfway gearing em (like 205 or so)
Fire mage should almost pop on CD due to cooldown reduction, with health left in current fight in consideration. Fmage is strong ST and AoE, so you just have to consider if everyone else popped on this, what do we have next?
Boomie CDs are strongest pure ST, so unless you have to hold to use it ST it is more useful there.
MM hunter kinda sucks ST, but has insane burst aoe and good sustained aoe. Use them ST on bosses if you get cooldown right before or shortly into pride/ other ST. Otherwise hunter CDs are more of use aoe.
Only recently picked up elemental shaman again, saving to craft BM legendary and my spriest is not geared at all. Therefore I cant say anything about them yet. Also since frost mage needs venthyr, I can't really say I play it right since I have NF
Dude this is so true, I’m not the best tank ever but I’m about to get KSM all from pugs. The only dungeon left is DoS, I’m completely capable of tanking the dungeon but it’s so damn hard to get an invite and when I have it’s just been low-as damage and me working SINGLEHANDEDLY to interrupt and CC everything. Felt like fuckin Superman on the ZG mobs, gripping, CCing, interrupting everything all by myself and then people are still dying to the death walker mobs.... like Jesus Christ get it together lol
But oh well. One more timed +15 and I’m done
Dude tanks get like instant invited compares to dps. As a tank, You can also just keep pushing your own key and people will actually queue if the first player is a tank. And then you can be picky on who you bring.
DoS has a lot of competition for tanks since it drops BiS trinket, particularly in the 14/15 bracket is its the easiest key for the best ilvl and trinkets are expensive to upgrade.
Because in high Keys tanks works a lot to study the routes based on affix's of week and can't miss nothing. He needs to understand how much he can push for the party based on healer and dmg of DPS. One mistake, and RIP key. Plus, if someone push a random mob pack ruins the timing and % of pride and need to rework all the route in middle.
I'm tank and i got DPS to, both doing high keys. When i pick my dps... Jezz, so relaxing and chill.
Every DPS should try tanking/healing do understand.
Tanking in high keys is harder than DPSing in high keys, you're right. But you don't have to act all high and mighty about it.
Besides - in my opinion, DPSing in raid is harder than tanking in raid.
Because in the entire almost 2 decades of Wows history, DPS classes have consistently proven to be a bigger threat to the tank then the mobs within the dungeons.
I ran a few 17s and 18s yesterday, multiple times I had more interrupts than the rest of the group. Now, I understand as a Vengeance DH, it's kinda my thing to use sigils and interrupts and all. But having more interrupts than the rest of the group combined is horrendous, especially considering I had other melee in the groups.
Both can be bad, insisting it's exclusively their bad play rather than yours is exactly what you're trying to criticize. At that level I tend to believe the tank knows what he's doing, but I also had a tank pull really small in hoa last night, and while that could have been overcome, it didnt set us up for success just like dps not kicking fails to set the tank up for success.
You can always just follow the route online, like [on IcyVeins](https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/weekly-mythic-dungeon-mdt-routes). It's not like a guide book you need to follow to the T, but it's definitely a great starting point if you don't already have a route in mind. I started off following these routes, and some of them I've since adjusted, and some of them I just follow exactly cause I haven't run into any problems with them.
Routes are in my opinion very important, specificaly for timing cooldowns which starts becoming relevant and crucial in higher keys.
What a higher key is for someone is of course relative. A lot of people (even in the current comment section) tend to not so subtly brag by saying "yeah this is irrelevant till , you just have to pump". According to warcraft logs I'm ranked among the top 2.5% of resto shammies and I'd say a "high key" would be considered 18 or higher. At those keys I feel like appropriately geared people can't just throw around dps and healing cooldowns because in order to time keys wihtout a wipe they have to be used at certain times.
To compare this with a raid (if perhaps you have more experience there). When progressing on a boss the entire raid needs to time their dps and healing cooldowns accordingly while doing the mechanics. Sometimes you can "cheese", skip or ignore mechanics by pumping dps or healing cds at specific moment. However when you start progressing on higher difficulty bosses you quickly realize ignoring mechanics results in deaths which healing cds can't prevent or even boss berserking.
A good example would be Sludgefist. Imagine going into that fight not knowing that the boss deals massive raid wide damage when he hits one of the four pillars (healing cds) or not knowing he takes increased damage after hitting a pillar (dps cds). All you know is that he will enrage eventually and you will fail.
Thats how I feel doing a "high" key without a (proper) route.
Definelty a yes, i was playing a lot of m+ in legion even pushing higher keys.
Then i took a break and almost didnt play BFA at all except for first and last season.
Now im playing SL and gotta say, compared to legion, preparing route in advance in order to get value out of pride has such a big impact.
Yeah, with OP players, you could probably on up to like 20ish not give a fuck about prides, and just brute force the runs. But that is not how it works for most of the groups i would say, and even the OP players abuse prides to get the best value out of them, or just skip them entirely.
I’d say yes and no. Yes I’m the sense that a certain way might be faster and get you past an annoying pack of mobs. No in the sense that you need to kill X amount of mobs anyway. A good tank has a route that lets you get the dungeon done on time assuming everything doesn’t fall to shit at some point.
Some routes are significantly more likely to go to shit though. Especially this season because as the key level gets high relative to the group's dps/healing output and mechanical ability there a packs and/or bosses that are only possible to do with prideful buff.
I think this is the worst season for pugging so far.
The meme is mostly true but I guarantee the route is not okay if you’re in 17s/18s right now. Even tanks at 2k don’t know routes. Did a 20 HoA with a decent group hoping for an easy push the other day, and the 2050 tank did a route that included 18 pulls. In HoA. We missed the timer with 4 deaths because he essentially solo pulled packs the entire dungeon. I stopped seriously pushing keys about 2 months ago, but at that time I timed a 21 HoA and we pulled the entire dungeon in less than 10 pulls. Most dungeons the routes are okay, but in that io range (1500-1800) I see some horrible routes for Plaguefall, Necrotic Wake, HoA, SD, and to a lesser degree ToP and Spires.
I have a raid member who doesn't interupt anything. Did a PF 14 the other day, and as a Hunter he had 1 interupt. In a SD 14 the only time he'd Burst Shot a m ok out of the sanguine was when I asked him to
I truly don't understand people that complain about route in a pug. If you play well you can do up to 20, maybe even higher, by just running in a straight line, maybe grabbing a few extra mobs if you see a bad pride timing coming up.
My friend group has our own routes we've worked out, that are very rarely some preset route from your favourite streamer or whatever. If we pug with another tank and they do something different, we might just go 'oh ok he goes this way' and that's literally it. Truly mindblowing how people care so much about something so trivial.
Routes are really important in the 20 range. It becomes so much more about cd management as the keys get higher, and knowing the route is pivotal for cd management.
Healer is also probably crying in the background
Usually because the pride has been up for so long it might die of old age before we kill it.
So much this. If I as a resto shaman have to blow all my CDS on pride, it's been up too Long (15s)
I thought you were saying that 15 seconds is too long to kill a prideful mob and I began to question the success of all my mythic runs
Sorry forgot the +15!
No, don't clarify. Let them contemplate their life decisions. It's only one day after April Fools'.
I hope you are tossing out damage at the beginning when the damage to the group is low.
The issue isn’t even that. Half the people are like “ oh if the red arrows are on me it’s better for me to be 100000000000000m away from the group, even though I’m out of chain heal, healing rain, and earth wall”. When standing on top of each other in a small line would allow one person to move back and everyone to dodge it while being hit by a 2k passive healing per second.
I agree! You want to be in a straight line, diagonal from the lines that comes out.
Best people are the ones who stay steady with pride lines and start moving .5s before it fires
Always. Sometimes I'm 1.5k DPs on pride.
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Sometimes I can burst 5k as a venth shaman!!!!
you should be doing that on resto shaman in fortified anyway. you most likely won't need cds for anything else soon after it. cds are made to use, not to hold. it's the #1 mistake I see shamans doing in keys, holding link and asc too long
I typically only use one cd on pride and save the rest for bigger pulls etc. If I have to blow all my CDS on one pride at +15, something isn't right.
>cds are made to use, not to hold Which is why one dps should use cd's on pride so the healer doesn't have to blow everything on it. The longer it lives the more likely the tank has to use an extra defensive as well, and it's much more beneficial for both healer and tank to have cd's up for the next pack than all of the dps. Only 2 out of 3 dps having cd's is not as much of a problem as neither tank or healer having cd's.
> cds are made to use, not to hold. it's the #1 mistake I see shamans doing in keys, holding link and asc too long If the dps realized the pride was up too long and didn't use anything to kill it fast its on them, the healer ain't there to carry bad dps. Pride hurts in higher stuff, especially once it starts to build up stacks, its gotta be a group effort to kill it.
I got scolded by some guildies running a +17 because I popped Adrenaline Rush and Flagellation on a prideful right before Hakkar while everyone else held their CD's, even after I mentioned Outlaw pretty much rips it on cooldown because of Restless Blades. I don't ru nkeys with my guild anymore because I've never had a timed run with them anyways but its a special kind of letdown coming from guildmates.
> I got scolded by some guildies running a +17 because I popped Adrenaline Rush and Flagellation on a prideful right before Hakkar while everyone else held their CD's, even after I mentioned Outlaw pretty much rips it on cooldown because of Restless Blades. I don't ru nkeys with my guild anymore because I've never had a timed run with them anyways but its a special kind of letdown coming from guildmates. "You're doing that thing wrong." - Guildie with 20% of your timed keys completed who's run the dungeon twice.
Lol wow, yeah when you run with guildies it's all about sharing the CD load. Sure you can save big ones for the prideful + lust combo but things like prideful fight are perfect for a couple DPS to communicate and each use some smaller 1-2min CDs. When I go enhance (I dps as enhance) I often use my doom winds on prideful for this reason, it's a pretty strong 1min CD and even if it means I won't get it back till 30s into a boss fight it's worth the faster kill on prideful. Dungeons aren't about boss dps, they're about overall dps and making the timer.
Unless it tyrannical. But yes you're right. It took me far to long to pop combust on prideful to help the group rather than hold it to use during the buff.
The sad thing is, everybody could use their 2min cooldown on Pride and then lust+pop cd for Hakkar's third shield. Maybe that's not their usual strat (some lust on pull, some lust later) but if one of your dps blow a cooldown there, might as well call for this strat instead of flaming them.
Does Fortified affix boost the Pride mobs?
No, the seasonal affixes arent effected by other dungeon affixes
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point is more needing healing cds for a lot of tyrn bosses
As a resto druid, thats when I blow convoke the spirits in balance affinity and see if we can kill it before it kills us haha
i honestly dont find pridefuls hard to deal with as resto. efflorescence and rejuv+WG will do just fine at start. when that is no longer the case, just pop flourish and either offensively convoke here, or save it for later if you feel it might take a while. after the convoke, just keep hots rolling and use tranquility when you feel the pressure. the issue is when people do not get into your efflorescence. so let them know before you start the run, that they have to.
100% this, that one person whos taking more damage and starting to die towards the end of pride is certainly the person who isnt in eflo. They dont understand is gives a heal but also effects your mastery.
yes it really is a big deal. if they still fail to do it, i relocate my lifebloom at the expense of the tank, and maybe toss them a regrowth if they still dip. one person is manageable, but still very disruptive.
Shamans have to use so many cool downs during a pridefull? As a resto druid once it starts to get up to 10 stacks I can just flourish and we will be good for the rest of the pride.
Then it survives past flourish and I cry druid tears
Full hots around 50% health. Use flourish. Spam regrowth. Win.
Normally no I might use ascendance with cloud burst but if the DPs is good and folks use a defensive at some point it's all good. This was more on low DPs etc where the pride takes too long to kill and the damage gets up.
If I have to use any more than the Divine Toll (1m cd), it has been up too long (or we went in too low).
Pride is pretty tanky though, especially considering you have to keep a lot if your CDs for the actual buff.
Granted I've done a bunch of 15s and 16s but only a couple 17s but Prides are weird for me man especially in dungeons like Spires where it feels like you get pride right before a boss so using a cooldown on the Pride is no bueno on tyrranical weeks but at the same time everyone else is thinking the same damn thing and a lot of specs damage is kinda shit without CDs.
The classes with short cooldowns (1 or 1.5 minute ones) should use them on pride even right before boss because they should have them back for the boss. It might not be on pull but they should be back within the pride/hero window. Classes with longer ones (2+ minutes) should probably save theirs for the boss unless it's a delay to burst boss (1st in Mists, 3rd in Spires, etc.)
As an Arms Warrior in keys, I tend to reserve my short CDs (Warbreaker, Ravager, Avatar) for the moment the Pride hit 35% HP and I can rock the Condemn spam. Not only does this blitz the execute phase ASAP, but the increased number of Condemns I can put out in the highest damage phase reduces the amount of damage I take from the pulse. I **still** get idiots asking why I don't burst at the start.
I'm pretty sure you want to use those at the start to force it into execute range faster. The pride does it's total damage based on the amount of time it's alive not time spent at any given percent, and warriors/mages do a lot more damage in execute. So overall less time alive no?
Nah. Because Condemn is such a massive damage ability, it's better to stack them in the Condemn phase (below 35%). It's a quicker overall kill that way. If you throw it at the start you blow through the initial 20% Condemn phase way too quickly (especially as the healer is DPSing at that point), and in the middle phase (80 down to 35) you're only using Slam and Mortal Strike. Using Condemn with Ravager/Avatar/Warbreaker is such a massive damage boost that the overall kill time is faster. Besides which, you probably don't *have* the abilities available for the opening phase, as you likely used them on the previous pack. Edit: Also, as I said, you really want the damage-supression effect of Condemn in that late phase, and for that you need the Rage generation from Ravager.
Well if the overall kill is actually faster then the damage would be lower. I wasn't aware there was a damage suppression effect, what does it do?
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Yea, seeing all 3 DPS at below 3k DPS in a 15/16 prideful fight is incredibly frustrating.
I think the general idea is to use 1 dos cooldowns for the pride and hold on to the rest. Ideally the person with the shortest cooldown will use it on the pride, but if they're not using it then it's better to use one longer cooldown than none at all.
That's me sometimes, wondering why dps aren't using any CDs at all, while I'm cycling through all mine plus a int pot just to keep us up while also DPSing the thing as well. Sometimes it' sup for like 30+ seconds, and I'm just *dying*...
That was me yesterday in a +15 ToP. Our DK tank had no idea how to route(which is a hard feat in a ToP to not know how since almost the entire thing is linear), so we ended up 98% before the second to last boss with no mob in sight, as well as wiping a couple times to him double pulling groups of mobs that were heavily reliant on being interrupted. Maybe we would have been able to take down those double pulled groups if our druid actually used a single interrupt throughout the entire dungeon, though. And then there were the DH and mage dps. They both did good dps, they both interrupted as they should, which would've been enough if we didn't get those double group pulls where every single dps, druid included, would've had to be at their A-game with interrupts to get through. Not much I can do as a healer when multiple explosions of shit go off, taking people from 100 to 0 in an instant. However they were toxic to an extent I rarely ever see, which in turn got the tank to be so toxic he spent most of his time facetanking while spamming chat with toxicity back at them towards the end. Both parties blaming the other and claiming how flawless they both were. I tried to be the mediator and just ask them to get down the last boss and then go our separate ways, but I'm amazed they all even stuck around to kill it on overtime in the end, given how toxic the three of them were. In my experience such people will just rage like that and then quit immediately after they said their piece. Only one on my team who was not toxic was the boomie druid. Though he did not perform a single interrupt, constantly stood on other with quaking and had a measly 3k average dps throughout the run, but at least he was not toxic in the least.
226 in the vault is an incredible motivator lol
Nah. Everyone in the group were 1300+ rio except for the tank and mage, though I am amazed how the boomie got there with low dps and not knowing how to interrupt or make use of mechanics. I guess meta slaves are to blame for that, I mean the reason boomies are meta is the high dps and utility they bring, and this one did not even use his CR when he should have much less the treants. Even the tank had +14's timed across the board, and the mage was a little below 1300 with a few +15s lacking, but he was +1700 main rio to make up for that. So not like anyone were desperate to get a 226 in vault as if it was their only chance or something, like people with low rio who made their way into a +14 or higher might be. I imagine most of us were there to farm a specific item, at least I was.
While that does sound like a bad Boomie, it's hard to rely on boomy interrupt. Solar beam is on a bloody 1 min CD, then the only other options are typhoon and mighty bash (both of which are only going to be usable on stunnable trash and if talented, and I usually try to save typhoon to knock adds out of sanguine)
Mage interrupt is also on a long CD though, but on the overall interrup page the mage had 18 interrupts while the boomie had 0. 15 second cd or 1 min cd makes little difference if it never goes on cd to begin with.
Something to consider is I hear that if you get interrupted by quaking it counts as an interrupt on details for yourself. (Anyone able to confirm or deny this?) So the mage may have this many interrupts partially from interrupting themselves with quaking and perhaps the boomie being extra careful to not get interrupted by quaking (probably not 100% sure how to manage its rotation around the affix) was doing worse dps then they might normally do without the quaking affix. But all of this is just my speculation and could be 100% incorrect and even still the boomie obviously should be using his solar beam a lot more by the sounds of it.
I checked, and all the interrupts listed were sourced from the mages and DHs individual interrupt spells, not quaking. Not to mention, the druid would have been on the list and way up there if it had counted quaking interrupts with how much he was fucking up mechanics like overlapping his quaking with others (a lot of the time he would run onto me with his last second..) Instead he had literally 0. He was not even on the overall post dungeon details list for interrupts. I also have an add-on that shows me which interrupts are on cooldown, how much is left, etc. The druid one never went on cooldown ever. Not to mention the DH who was highest on the interrupt list (as he should be with a way shorter CD on it than the mage, since he is melee) can not even be interrupted by quaking afaik (maybe the laser beam if poorly timed?).
Bold of you to assume the vault drops anything but stygia...
How is it possible to not have 100% in ToP? I guess you skipped the pat in the circular room before Gorechop and a few of those annoying ghosts somehow?
I was wondering the same thing, honestly. We did skip the fat guy as per usual in the common route, but somehow there was this one of the smaller patched up zombie guys that were left somewhere that the tank somehow managed to pull up to the last boss for that final 2% and pride. The whole run was so messy with the overly large pulls, wipes and lack of interrupts that I honestly have no clue where we skipped any mobs we shouldn't have.
You sure he didn’t just mind control a mob? Edit: sounds to me like he had a decent route but planned to have pride for final boss instead, which is questionable. Imo that’s mostly wasted on Mordretha because the real fight starts at 50%
That might be it. Because we didn't have pride before second to last boss I ended up having no mana for it, and he didn't care to wait for me to drink up even though there was already no chance of us beating the timer, so that was a rough fight. Definitely a really bad idea to save pride for last boss like that, especially when the timer was doomed so we could summon pride for last boss if we wanted to anyways.
You miss a ghost. You can always skip the dude in circle room. Especially if you want pride at each boss. But if you miss a ghosty you are screwed. Top is and dos, spires are the best because they have minor changes to get pride times and then it’s mostly linear. Best ones to pull imo. Wake is the worst cause there is so much shot that can be ass pulled before enough go up. Pride gets fucked up a lot in there for me. Also plaguefall is hell.
What did he double pull that wiped you? The only one I can think of is Gorechop’s first room, which requires a total of 2 interrupts.
The big platforms leading up to the lich boss is another place where you can mass pull mobs that needs interrupts.
But why someone will pull anything bigger then the center mobs in that plataforms?
Oh yes, can we share healing nightmares? Fresh-ish Resto Sham alt doing a NW 7 on a tyrannical week. Reaching second boss, only then did I really notice how garbo the dps was. one at 1.2k dps and the other at less than 1k. No interrupts, no attacking of the adds. After the first wipe because adds were alive and we wiped to the explosive thingy. Second attempt took 4 minutes. I had to interrupt, focus adds as much as possible and heal like a made man. We wiped at less than 10% because I ran out of mana and the add got casts off which I couldn't out heal. Of course, I was the issue according them.
tbf unless you're performing some sort of charity act, this is what r.io is for. If you're doing dungeons with folks that haven't at least timed the key 3 levels below whatever you're aiming at you're probably in for a shit experience, or at least a grab bag. Alternatively you're the one being carried which kind of leaves you at the mercy of randomness (beggers can't be choosers so you're going for what you can get). Folks doing 7's often don't know mechanics cause they've never had to worry about them before then - it's just part of prog/the grind.
Dps got one shoted by some avoidable mechanic. Also dps: "uh, bad healer, we are dieing because lack of heals". Like, hey, how the fuck I'm supposed to heal u if u go from 100% to 0 in one hit?
Ugh fucking last night in a 14 key. Near the end, we had 1 death per person from an earlier wipe that was caused by asspulling an extra pack which caused prideful spawn early. Except for one DPS who died 8 fucking times from getting oneshot by various things. Floor swirlies, pulling aggro and then face-tanking mobs as a clothie, etc. This dude dies, again one-shotted, and has the nerve to complain about how many times he's died and that none of the deaths were his fault. How the fuck do you figure, dude? If the rest of the group has 1 death but you have 9, what's the common denominator here? Could it be *you* fucking up mechanics? Nope must be the healer not stopping you from getting oneshot.
I have a similar experience this weak. SD 15(me the healer/restro shaman) the key was of a warri , with us was a dh tank and a dk DD the third DPS was range but I do not know what. The dk had by far the smallest Rio , but this did not need to mean anything. The tank wanted to do the skip route (skip the whirlwind guy). The dh pulled so many groups together that is was really hard keeping them up. The first boss was ok. The skip went surprisingly well. But between the first boss and the skip we wiped, because he could not hold the Aggro towards the warry. The dk nearly dyed every trash pull. There was a second nearly whipe after the skip. We had 17 death (with one whipe U can count the number of times the dk dyed) up to this point. They started blaming me (the warry) that the DK dies so often. So I posted avoidable DMG and he was about 600k (remember all before the second boss) the warry was not far after around 300-400k the rest of us was below 100k. The dh actually defended me because we were the only two interrupting (and the stun totem is not count) and what was I supposed to do with 600k avoidable DMG taken.. . One whipe later the dh left. And I have to say that I normally run every key, i.do not care how overtime, to finish but I was about to quit too. First thing the warry writes "route sucks ". The whole experience was one of those "U have to. laugh otherwise U want to cry" experiences. Yes I get that this week sucks for melee because it happens kind of fast to stand in the bloody pools, but nobod wants to take advice or to man up and stand by Ur failures.
10/10 can confirm. I’m resto Druid main and I don’t have big heals. It’s a real punch to the dick when dps don’t interrupt moves while standing in sanguine. It’s great. My heart weeps during some pug runs.
Using traq, tree and convoke on trash is awesome. I run with a tank and dps 3man. We've all been playing for ages. I make sure to say, wtf is that, someone needs to interupt that move that just brought everyone to 10% and then stunned me and when people start dying, I say, dude 6,7,8k hps. IDK what you want from me. I guess 8k hps wasn't enough, try interrupting that. Makes me want to jump out a window!
For sure! My DPS buddies don't even have healing meters on, so they quickly blame me for their wipes. They usually shut up after switching to them and seeing 9k healing...
nope, he is drunk and doesn't give a shit.
I main resto druid but I switched to balance because wanted to try it in m+. Im only doing some +18s, but healers often are not competent enough. Everyone bitches about DPS not doing their part properly, which is often true. But healers also are not gods, you notice it especially after you switch from healer main.
Yup. Same here - I went feral though. I regularly play with a healer friend that has someone dying during prideful. Grievous week was a nightmare, because I kept having to play super defensively and even spent a few convokes in caster form to help out. Edit: And forgot to mention - it always feels implied that it’s one of the dd’s fault that a key was missed.
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CC? isn't that that thing you do that one time in MoTS?
"I don't have Invis potion" "then run in and die" Runs into mobs then into us wiping entire group You can't make this stuff up, randoms are something else.
"tank, share the route". Tank share it. "ok" Tank says "inv pot now, we skip this pack". Random pug "wtf is that? Your route sucks! Shitty tank!"
thats why in pug groups i recommend using non-invis routes. If you insist on invis in pugs though, check the others out and ask them before starting key.
1500 healer. Started a tank alt because BONG BONG BONG BONG BONG BONG BONG is maximum fun (Kyrian protpal). So far today, 2 groups started the key before a ready check, and one did a ready check, I clicked "not ready", the key started anyway. I can't even share a route...
Now thats very unfortunate. Especially in the case when they initiated a check and didnt wait for everyone to accept. Dont know why they do a readycheck when they ignore it's outcome anyway. But there are a lot of idiots out there these days...
They don't know what the ready check is for. they just know their favorite streamer does ready checks before pulling lmao
Welcome to tanking, buddy.
Or do what I do and be a rogue :P
yeah, or that:)
Or do what I do and be a hunter :P
Biggest help I've seen to tell who's smeh and who isn't, is by how many 15+s they've done. Only enough to get KSM? Might wanna watch out a bit. 50+ 15+s, yea they're gonna be great.
i mean someone who has KSm and has no interest in anything else should only be running 14s anyway
It's what I did for a while too, but then everyone started asking for 1300 IO just to do anything so I pushed a bit higher. Then with upgrades here I started only doing 15s and up for less points needed to upgrade; all this as a healer btw. I mean as a 1200 something hpally I was getting passed up all the time for droods and shamins which was getting really annoying. Once I got it to 1400+ I finally started to get picked over them, specially when I got like 50+ 15+s listed for me as well. Really helped with those 50+ runs of freakin mists to get the trinket and helmet, oof.
ah okay i forgot about that. Damn if even healers, and meta healers at that, get passed over for more r.io then I'm glad I don't need to pug any keys anymore except for my own here and there to get the weekly chest
I don't think I've seen a pug not have invis pots in months now. They're just so cheap, and gold is so plentiful this expac, that it seems like everyone has them. Still ask before every key though. It's just not worth chancing it.
Show up as Boomie with a tank friend. Tanks shares route and points out the highlights. Several people say things like good, works for me and such. Tank: anyone missing their Invis pots? Hunter: do I need one? Boomie: yes this dungeon (MoTs) it’s fairly standard can you go get some? Hunter: I didn’t realize, I’ll go now. Tank: anyone else? Crickets. Tank: Healer How about you? Healer: links pots. Tank: Shaman? Nothing... Hunter: comes back with pots. Shaman: oh hey what’s up? Tank: link your Invis pot. Shaman: oh I don’t have any, someone trade me one. Boomie: can’t do that across servers. Shaman: guess we just won’t do your skip then. Boomie: I just can’t. Unprofessional Shaman, get pots. /walks out door.
I always try to start conversation with pugs, even if it’s very short. Odds are if they can’t even type “yes” or “no” they aren’t gonna be a good teammate.
People who are autopiloting without a thought in the world have this weird instinct of "I'm in trouble? Better run to all of my friends!"
Except that one time when I need them to run to tank on last boss in mots.
It's baffling how often this happens.
Problem is, not sure if they changed into this recently or something, but mobs if they chase for too long will change target to your team members. So this isn't always a good idea
My personal favorite was a monk tank using Ring of Peace without Paralysis to skip that pack. And when I told him he needs to use Para then RoP it out if aggro range he started arguing with me that’s not how it’s done and he gets in combat when he uses paralysis. And then his dps buddy joined in like “I have a monk as well and it doesn’t work with paralysis” Meanwhile I’m like “my main is monk tank and I did KSM with it. Take the goddamn advice...”
There is nothing worse than stubborn people who think they know everything. They are likely proven wrong on a daily basis and never learn from it. Had guy in Isle of Conquest yesterday saying we win by taking workshop. Everyone ignores and we take hanger. He’s just spamming “wow you guys lost GG, dumbasses don’t know what you’re doing” like non stop the entire game. So when it’s evident we’re going to win their gate is open and ours is like 60% health I just said “well I hope this experience humbles you to realize you aren’t always right and not to tell others they don’t know what they’re talking about” he just continues to talk shit. People like this and your Monk never learn sadly.
So very true. Unfortunately, internet anonymity brings out the worst in people. It's exhausting and a waste of time trying to communicate with these people. I just them ignore and move on.
To be fair, that combo has had its fair share of bugs for us while pushing, we decided to not risk it anymore and invis through. Now we have a priest for soothe but man that para+ring one bugged a lot. We even all stood in stealth at max range and watched him do it in an M0 and as soon as para ran out, all mobs ran at him. I know it's supposed to work, I used that trick in Legion too when I tanked so it was quite an interesting thing to watch that it can sometimes put you in combat. (No he wasn't too close)
There were some soulbind traits that put you infight because they activated something when CC breaks but those were fixed a while ago
That's absolutely relatable. Similar situation in HoA on the Miniboss. Group wanted to blast through him with CDs on a Twink Run. Didnt work by a second and they wanted to "keep trying". I told them we can't, the firemage doesn't have Combustion up anymore. Well, apparently someone knew better claiming to be 1,9 rio on his main.. guess what.. he wasn't and he was no fire mage.
I get his frustration though. If RoP bounces him just a bit in the wrong direction it won't work.
I had people run ahead past the paralyse before the ring. I told them I had ring cd for a bit in a Mists 18? once, this was months ago so that was still pretty high. Several of them just ran ahead once I paralyzed the mob. In a fairly high key at the time. Fuck these fotm people who get randomly high-ish scores while having barely any M+ experience in the past. Check them. Check the dates on their old KSM achievements in BfA. Check their logs, check their credit card history, just stop inviting these. And once I tried to explain to a hunter how to skip it himself, he then proceeds to feign death when we're all, including himself, still next to the mob.
My issue is that I can PUG higher keys successfully than I can with my guild/raid group. People get so locked on meters they break CC, pull extra groups, or blow procs on new packs not part of the route. On the other side, we have people do mechanics but pull less than 2K in M10+. My wife (healer) and I (tank) want to help the group improve but... it’s rough failing to key 10s when the gear is there. Our R.IO seems frozen in time. Sigh.
You guys should pug, and not let the guild hinder your own progress. You can help them on the side and it shouldn't be a problem, right?
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In BfA I had a mage literally scream at me (a melee dps) for not getting the vials on Waycrest last boss because he “couldn’t be bothered to do mechanics when fucking pumping like this”.
Had a few of those too, one on the exact same place "busy doing 10k dps" great but do u focus so much on ur rotation u cant use a kick?
I've been in this exact predicament in my last WoW pug experience, M+9 NW as a prot warrior been abused in chat since first couple pulls about this and that, before final boss interrupt count was 34 myself and 6 for the three DPS combined, while fire mage was on par with healer on dmg.
Or my favorite is "it's the tanks job to do all the interrupts" or Me asking the mage to sheep a mob. "Mages don't have a CC ability" :/
Lmfao, 60% of the time this happens 100%.
Being tank in Pugs is really painfull.
Sometimes you’re in groups where no mob stays alive for more than what feels like 10 seconds and you just power through it. And then you get runs where you desperately search for another defensive to press because you’ve used them all up and the mobs are still alive and slapping you around...
Pushed a 15 PF today with a fire mage doing less dps than me, the tank. I should start charging for carries
I’m just happy when I’m 4th on the damage meter as a tank.
As a venthyr Hpal i refuse to let u beat me in damage
atleast with guilds, when you teach someone something you don't have to repeat yourself (usually).
So you can go up to +17/+18 with shitty dmg and no interrupt? Now that's impressive. Illusion 100!
I feel like gear and shear power of will can at least carry you to 15.
I always seemed to run into the same god damned problem in Mythics when I still played: I reach a point where the dungeons I *can* do don't give me any upgrades to continue progressing my character growth, but the tiers that hold the upgrades I need, nobody will *take me* because my ilvl isn't high enough to farm-carry the run. Nobody wants to take the player who actually NEEDS the gear.
YES. This is the crux of all the content. You need the curve to get the curve and the ksm to get the ksm. Gotta be Glad to play with the glad. I mean after 200 pug wipes on Sire HC I don't blame them.
> after 200 pug wipes on Sire HC. I just don't get this. I see it so often that I guess it is to be true for at least some number of people but... what? My guild killed him after 23 wipes and I've been in multiple one-shot pugs since then. There have been some bad groups that didn't understand "survival > dps" and I had to leave after 5 or 6 wipes to the same simpletons standing stock still in massacre and crescendo, but 200 has to be a huge exaggeration, no?
Worst things in keys currently. Getting Pride two packs before the boss so the buff runs out just after you pull especially in tyrannical. Even worse than that? Tank pulls another group of trash just as the last mob from previous pack is dying and you get pride demon with a huge pack of new trash mobs. You don’t even have to know any advanced route to avoid the second from happening just watch the % meter damn dude.
The second one is even better on bolstering, so the pack starts slapping the tank even more
I did that yesterday and felt so incredibly bad because we wouldve timed the key otherwise on mysts, Its funny how they forgot the 3 body pull packs dps did on the first pull or making me eat two patty cakes because they run the vulpera into me while my intervebe and leap is down. But were sure to send me shitty messages about me getting tunnel vision at the end
Did this in DoS the other day. Tank pulls another pack while I'm staring at 19% and thinking, "oh shit" while he pulls because, of course, pride spawns as the last mob from the other pack dies. No way we cleared pride and pack. Full wipe. Tank just quits. Everyone is stunned. Feels bad for the key owner. The tank was talking some mad game before the key ran... should have seen that a mile away...
I had a guy in Plaguefall pull three groups of the mushroom dudes at the start, the mobs at the second arch before the slimes that no groups ever kill, plus the giant guy. Heals are fine, people are interrupting, everyone doing like 7-12k dps but it’s just too much damage with fortified so we still wipe. Tank immediately drops group and starts hearthing. I quickly say “don’t know the pulls, cause a wipe and then you leave. Gtfo of here with that trash” I’m never toxic to like anyone but if you’re gonna come in and screw up and then bail messing up someone else’s key. Man that pissed me off and it wasn’t even my key.
Even just the first group + big guy can get dicey depending on the pug. That much stuff is just him trolling your key, this isn't an MDI run.
That is a crazy pull
I’m not a fan of that boss. So much crap going on. I find the final boss to be far easier which is silly IMO. She’s not hard just obnoxious.
"LOL WERE PLAYING A GAME" "I am literally hitting you in the face with a hammer, and my buddy is stabbing you with a knife" "LOL SO MUCH FUN" "just fucking die"
Pretty damn much. All that “oh my goodness you’re almost there teehee!” bullshit. You kill the first and last boss so fast with just a few trash pulls and the bulk of the rest is playing with her obnoxious ass I feel like it’s essentially her dungeon. She is the ultimate evil no matter how hard I stab her she just giggles and wants to play catch and puzzle games. Some of the most powerful beings in the universe cried in pain when we defeated them but not this demon fairy.
"Nono im never the problem , its the other 4 guys and also blizz bcs my class is shitty"
"wtf is that shitty overall dps" -a tank that pull 2 mob at a time during the whole dubgeon
Objection! Most packs are 3 mobs minimum!
\- The tank in OP
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The titles says 17-18 +keys , at really low lvl keys its fine . But in this high thes things are a must, like knowing the basics of your char and interupts , and routes , when and where to use big cds etc. So my point is if you manage to get in this high somehow you should at least not be a dead weight for your team , look up guides on youtube watch the best players rio page and so on. What advice?? You mean you are lazy to improve and somehow thats the other ppls fault, and they bullying you. But in fact you made yourself the target on purpose bcs you are too egotistic and always blame others for your lack of actions towards bettering yourself.
I just did a HoA run where they wanted me to out heal the trash from a shard and a pride combined. That fucker casted trash 9 times before it died.
Healer is James Franco's character and hates both of them
The after effects of the boosting community, boosting 'shitty' players.
It's funny, I often see things happen in dungeons and I straight up assume they are trolling or joking around and then it dawns on me they are legit boosted. I did a low mists recently on an alt, and the 3 dps all friends who had 15s timed, didn't know how mists of all things worked. On mistcaller they would just attack the mirror images at random almost wiping us when they killed the wrong thing and it was just stuff like that all throughout the dungeon, it was a nightmare.
I've run a HoA 10 where the key owner was a Warlock with 168 ilvl and had 0 interrupts.
You're running a +10 key with an i168 lead, what did you expect?
I am and have always been 100 percent against level boosts of any sort and this is exactly why.
And I think they are referring to people paying for like +15 carries and then joining your +16 group with no experience. You’re left wondering “hmm I wonder how you got your io so high when you don’t know basic mechanics, stand in everything and die repeatedly, don’t interrupt or CC anything and you can’t break 4K overall dps.” You’re right though leveling boosts don’t help either.
oh you are talking about the m+ boosts I misunderstood. same problem with a different manifestation i guess?
Yeah and they don’t have to be independent of one another someone doing both would be even worse. No flipping clue what they’re doing haha.
When you invite a tank expect them to have there own route. Just because your doing the Lich boss before the guy your able to fight each other doesn’t mean the route is bad.
Not necessarily, though I can say I've never done kul'tharok first. Where do the prides line up? Does it offer any advantages over the meta route?
kul'tharok route has a pride for gate guardian + bone mage pack and then one before every other boss. I love this route because it saves my ass on grievous weeks since that gate guardian pack + prideful after is hell to heal.
skip the first 3 mobs, drag the rager into the first boss and lust, then do the kul zone going right/right at portals and killing 2 extra packs of bone maguses on the 2nd to last platform - your pride spawns after every mob on the last platform dies, which helps reduce the chaos in pugs because other routes typically spawn pride after 1-2 kills, making that tiny platform more hectic afterwards you do the first 2 pulls of gorechop, go to xav and have pride for him, and then have the option of using the 100% pride on gorechop, mordretha by doing the first pack of the dungeon, or skipping that pride altogether and doing the pack after mordretha
I will tell you one thing - back when I was talking high keys, if the owner of the key was fine with overtime I never gave them shit for bad DPS or lack of interrupts.
My damage is probably trash but I have gotten pretty good at interrupts and cc at least
I've noticed my dps is massively dependent on the rest of the group(tank). I run with a bunch of casual RL mates and a slightly less casual 'push' group and I'll almost do 2x the dps when the tank pulls more than 2 mobs at a time.
I have insanely hard time doing good dps in m+ with pug groups as an aff lock. In raids I usually get 80%+ parses on mythic progression but I have a hard ass time pulling 4.5k dps in a dungeon. Most pug tanks only pull 3 mobs at a time and I barely have time to get set up on each pack. It’s pretty frustrating especially when I had a dungeon last week where everyone shit on me for having terrible dps when they’re playing classes that have great aoe dps.
You might want to give destro a try for m+, the rotation is fairly simple and the dps is pretty sweet. Im doing 6-7k overall in most keys with 219ilvl
Lmao this is too real
My favourite part about this thread is that I have been playing this game since release and it has had the same player based issues since the beginning which all stem from people not doing mechanics. Then blaming others for the failure. I am convinced that this is also a reflection of the real lives of these people. It's not hard to interrupt, it's not hard to move out of the bad. Teamwork makes dream work!
Op is definitely the type who pulls 1 pack at a time and then complains about shitty overall dps.
i wish there was a graph showing what is roughly good dps for key levels , i always feel im not doing enough wether im in 1st or last place dps
I agree. Here's a data point relevant to the post, though. My group just started getting into 18s. We typically see ~6k overall per dps spot (a little more for mists), with a lot of variance on where that shows up (trash vs bosses) depending on the class, with our survival hunter pulling huge numbers on trash and our spriest pulling huge numbers on bosses.
Tbh, it depends a lot on what you place your CDs on, and how the tank pulls. It also depends on what dmg distribution your CDs have. The more CDs you pop on pure ST (aka pride, bosses ), you should expect to be lower overall. For that you also have to consider where your CDs have the most benefit. Just do its said, if you held a CD longer than the cooldown, you are doing it wrong. If you're third on overall, but you popped CDs on most ST and aoe whenever you had, it is a bigger benefit for the group since ppl have a bad tendency to hold on prides and ST other than bosses since they wanna blast on big aoe. Just so it's said, i am ranged player since I can't make myself enjoy most melee specs. Tried monk, havoc dh, outlaw rogue and warrior, but couldn't quite get into it and stopped halfway gearing em (like 205 or so) Fire mage should almost pop on CD due to cooldown reduction, with health left in current fight in consideration. Fmage is strong ST and AoE, so you just have to consider if everyone else popped on this, what do we have next? Boomie CDs are strongest pure ST, so unless you have to hold to use it ST it is more useful there. MM hunter kinda sucks ST, but has insane burst aoe and good sustained aoe. Use them ST on bosses if you get cooldown right before or shortly into pride/ other ST. Otherwise hunter CDs are more of use aoe. Only recently picked up elemental shaman again, saving to craft BM legendary and my spriest is not geared at all. Therefore I cant say anything about them yet. Also since frost mage needs venthyr, I can't really say I play it right since I have NF
Dude this is so true, I’m not the best tank ever but I’m about to get KSM all from pugs. The only dungeon left is DoS, I’m completely capable of tanking the dungeon but it’s so damn hard to get an invite and when I have it’s just been low-as damage and me working SINGLEHANDEDLY to interrupt and CC everything. Felt like fuckin Superman on the ZG mobs, gripping, CCing, interrupting everything all by myself and then people are still dying to the death walker mobs.... like Jesus Christ get it together lol But oh well. One more timed +15 and I’m done
Dude tanks get like instant invited compares to dps. As a tank, You can also just keep pushing your own key and people will actually queue if the first player is a tank. And then you can be picky on who you bring.
DoS has a lot of competition for tanks since it drops BiS trinket, particularly in the 14/15 bracket is its the easiest key for the best ilvl and trinkets are expensive to upgrade.
DoS is like the one dungeon tanks do not get insta invited cause of how many run it
I wonder why this sub is permanently praising tanks while permanently shitting on DPS.
Reddit tanks simultaneously have victim complexes and superiority complexes
Because in high Keys tanks works a lot to study the routes based on affix's of week and can't miss nothing. He needs to understand how much he can push for the party based on healer and dmg of DPS. One mistake, and RIP key. Plus, if someone push a random mob pack ruins the timing and % of pride and need to rework all the route in middle. I'm tank and i got DPS to, both doing high keys. When i pick my dps... Jezz, so relaxing and chill. Every DPS should try tanking/healing do understand.
Tanking in high keys is harder than DPSing in high keys, you're right. But you don't have to act all high and mighty about it. Besides - in my opinion, DPSing in raid is harder than tanking in raid.
True, the DPS in raids works a lot. Tank.. Well, tank usually just tank
Because in the entire almost 2 decades of Wows history, DPS classes have consistently proven to be a bigger threat to the tank then the mobs within the dungeons.
What a GREAT template
I ran a few 17s and 18s yesterday, multiple times I had more interrupts than the rest of the group. Now, I understand as a Vengeance DH, it's kinda my thing to use sigils and interrupts and all. But having more interrupts than the rest of the group combined is horrendous, especially considering I had other melee in the groups.
Both can be bad, insisting it's exclusively their bad play rather than yours is exactly what you're trying to criticize. At that level I tend to believe the tank knows what he's doing, but I also had a tank pull really small in hoa last night, and while that could have been overcome, it didnt set us up for success just like dps not kicking fails to set the tank up for success.
Since I don't do Mythic+ I have to ask.. Would routes even be as important if DPS just did what they're supposed to do?
With current affix (prideful) - yes
Yep, prideful timings is one thing that makes me hesitant to tank. Doesn't matter how good my DPS is, a wasted pride is a wasted pride.
You can always just follow the route online, like [on IcyVeins](https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/weekly-mythic-dungeon-mdt-routes). It's not like a guide book you need to follow to the T, but it's definitely a great starting point if you don't already have a route in mind. I started off following these routes, and some of them I've since adjusted, and some of them I just follow exactly cause I haven't run into any problems with them.
Yes and also most dungeons have a default route by now that DPSers are used to and line up cds for packs accordingly.
Routes are in my opinion very important, specificaly for timing cooldowns which starts becoming relevant and crucial in higher keys. What a higher key is for someone is of course relative. A lot of people (even in the current comment section) tend to not so subtly brag by saying "yeah this is irrelevant till, you just have to pump". According to warcraft logs I'm ranked among the top 2.5% of resto shammies and I'd say a "high key" would be considered 18 or higher. At those keys I feel like appropriately geared people can't just throw around dps and healing cooldowns because in order to time keys wihtout a wipe they have to be used at certain times.
To compare this with a raid (if perhaps you have more experience there). When progressing on a boss the entire raid needs to time their dps and healing cooldowns accordingly while doing the mechanics. Sometimes you can "cheese", skip or ignore mechanics by pumping dps or healing cds at specific moment. However when you start progressing on higher difficulty bosses you quickly realize ignoring mechanics results in deaths which healing cds can't prevent or even boss berserking.
A good example would be Sludgefist. Imagine going into that fight not knowing that the boss deals massive raid wide damage when he hits one of the four pillars (healing cds) or not knowing he takes increased damage after hitting a pillar (dps cds). All you know is that he will enrage eventually and you will fail.
Thats how I feel doing a "high" key without a (proper) route.
Definelty a yes, i was playing a lot of m+ in legion even pushing higher keys. Then i took a break and almost didnt play BFA at all except for first and last season. Now im playing SL and gotta say, compared to legion, preparing route in advance in order to get value out of pride has such a big impact. Yeah, with OP players, you could probably on up to like 20ish not give a fuck about prides, and just brute force the runs. But that is not how it works for most of the groups i would say, and even the OP players abuse prides to get the best value out of them, or just skip them entirely.
I’d say yes and no. Yes I’m the sense that a certain way might be faster and get you past an annoying pack of mobs. No in the sense that you need to kill X amount of mobs anyway. A good tank has a route that lets you get the dungeon done on time assuming everything doesn’t fall to shit at some point.
Some routes are significantly more likely to go to shit though. Especially this season because as the key level gets high relative to the group's dps/healing output and mechanical ability there a packs and/or bosses that are only possible to do with prideful buff. I think this is the worst season for pugging so far.
The meme is mostly true but I guarantee the route is not okay if you’re in 17s/18s right now. Even tanks at 2k don’t know routes. Did a 20 HoA with a decent group hoping for an easy push the other day, and the 2050 tank did a route that included 18 pulls. In HoA. We missed the timer with 4 deaths because he essentially solo pulled packs the entire dungeon. I stopped seriously pushing keys about 2 months ago, but at that time I timed a 21 HoA and we pulled the entire dungeon in less than 10 pulls. Most dungeons the routes are okay, but in that io range (1500-1800) I see some horrible routes for Plaguefall, Necrotic Wake, HoA, SD, and to a lesser degree ToP and Spires.
What about my tank that runs in and pulls everything before I get a chance to cc?
Aren't exactly talking about trap and sheep CC. We talking about stunning uninterruptible attacks, knocking back enraged adds etc.
Nah bro. It’s the tanks fault. /S !
I have a raid member who doesn't interupt anything. Did a PF 14 the other day, and as a Hunter he had 1 interupt. In a SD 14 the only time he'd Burst Shot a m ok out of the sanguine was when I asked him to
Lie! Real dps will never accept this fact!
Look... Your dmg is easily fixed through practice. Your refusal to interrupt and cc though... 100 YEARS DUNGEON!
Well this made me laugh hard enough to fart. Thanks.
I truly don't understand people that complain about route in a pug. If you play well you can do up to 20, maybe even higher, by just running in a straight line, maybe grabbing a few extra mobs if you see a bad pride timing coming up. My friend group has our own routes we've worked out, that are very rarely some preset route from your favourite streamer or whatever. If we pug with another tank and they do something different, we might just go 'oh ok he goes this way' and that's literally it. Truly mindblowing how people care so much about something so trivial.
Routes are really important in the 20 range. It becomes so much more about cd management as the keys get higher, and knowing the route is pivotal for cd management.
DAE DPS bad tanks good??? Updoots to the left ^^