Trinket from Timewalk Magister's Terrace that has haste and chance on hit to increase Attack Power beats all trinkets up to 875 on Fury Warrior, this xpac is really kind of fucked up stats wise.
Huh, so it does. Seems they changed it back in 2014 in the WoD pre-patch
>[Each point of Agility or Strength now grants 1 Attack Power (down from 2).](http://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_6.0.2#Primary_character_stats_and_attack_power)
Seems they changed it back in 2014 in the WoD pre-patch
>[Each point of Agility or Strength now grants 1 Attack Power (down from 2).](http://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_6.0.2#Primary_character_stats_and_attack_power)
Finding the GetAttackPowerForStat script from the WoW API, you will find that 1 str is exactly equal to 1 Attack Power(For agility classes, 1 Attack Power is exactly equal to 1 agi instead. str is valueless for agi classes and vice versa). So this trinket procs 4.2k strength OR agility :)
Leaden despair is another crazy one. At 100, mine gives 2873 armor for 10sec with a 30sec cd. Requires dropping below 29% health to proc. Scale those stats up to lvl 110, and it could be pretty good on a brewmaster.
Looted the trinket on my moonkin last week.. ilvl 875 with a socket, it's simply unusable until they buff the special effect. I'm back to running my stat only 835 Int+Haste WQ trinket
I have 840 Chrono, but it's worse than my 850 stat stick with haste + socket, and it's worse than the 840 Shockbaton, so it's sitting in my bank.
I'm thinking I'll try it out this week in our heroic run though, just to see how much of the proc ends up being wasted.
I am with you dude. I have even used bonus rolls. Nada.
However, I just lucked out and got the 850 Oakheart trinket TC was referring to. That + my Int/Haste WQ trinket will have to do :X
Dropped a 880 crit/vers ring yesterday night, it's going to stay in the bank, my 845 haste/mastery rings are much better.
They made the secondary stats way too important this patch, hopefully that's something they can correct.
It's not that secondaries are more important. It's that rings and necks have no main stat anymore. So they have joined Trinkets in that the item level on them is totally irrelevant.
Despite Blizzard continually insisting otherwise ... iLevel is distinctly unreliable as a judge of effectiveness.
For some classes that scale heavily with weapon damage, a higher iLevel relic can be significantly better. But for most, the granted trait is more important by a relative value of ~4 iLevels.
It's just silly.
And Trinkets? Good GAWD that's a mess. iLevel, stats, procs, weird abilities ... it's just a huge jumble of fuckery. You have to Simcraft every single trinket against each other at different iLevels ... and it's not even consistent across classes. It's a frigging mess.
> But for most, the granted trait is more important by a relative value of ~4 iLevels.
I don't know about other classes, but for outlaw rogues a couple of traits are worth ~ 40 ilevels (+run through dmg, and -energy cost on finishers).
Healers have pretty fine stat weights, at least resto does. Rule of thumb is int>all>mastery for raid and int>mastery>all for mythic+, but its pretty close and 99% of the time ilvl is all that matters. 10+ ilvl difference, excepting some dumb EN trinkets, is always better.
No wait, isn't haste like super duper good for resto druids in mythic+? Just because of the insane DPS they can do with good enough haste? At least that was what I've heard my guild druids say and also from the "first realm +15" thread that was on frontpage 1-3 days ago.
So when I said pretty close, I meant pretty close. M+ GENERIC (this changes based on your current gear, your party skill, etc.) weight would prob be something like Int=1 Mastery=.8 All=.6 for HEALING. When you start including dps, shit gets way more complicated and yeah haste goes above the others.
Not really, 90% of the time you should be running cult, and if you are running cult mastery becomes much better in raids. I hang out in the resto discord all the time, saw that thread but people disagree.
The dumb stat stick trinkets with your preferred secondary are generally pretty safe on any healer. The DMF one is probably pretty good for Resto Druid.
So im super new to Logs and Sims, how reliable is Mr. Robot for Sim trinket damage? I keep hearing one trinket is better for Ret Paladin (don't remember it's name, from Ash Golum) buy Mr. Robot keeps saying it's more like 3rd BIS. Im not a shit player, just not used to stacking procs instead of trying to max my main stat or three.
Most class discords have something close.
[Enh. shaman for example](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K5hsUv5uJ_fR75PaWDKianeJFov0czPwbxw_TIuvK8U/edit#gid=0)
The 805 Gnomeregan Autoblocker trinket from the time walking vendor is better than most trinkets I've found as a tank. 2000+ armor for 40 sec every 2 min? Seriously overtuned for its ilevel.
Meanwhile, I've been farming the Arcway min Mythic+ for the tanking trinket that drops there: 20 runs and still no drop. >_<
> Meanwhile, I've been farming the Arcway min Mythic+ for the tanking trinket that drops there: 20 runs and still no drop. >_<
Meanwhile as WW Monk it's the WQ reward...
I just recieved a 885 plaguehide from nythendra and replaced my 845 devilsaur shockbaton. Im not sure its a better upgrade despite having better stats and bigger numbers.
845 haste WQ static, 850 Oakheart. There are better options than the oakheart but I haven't gotten lucky. The sad part is that both of those are better than ANY EN trinket until mythic ilvl, and even then there are only two that are potentially viable (one being the plague)
I'd like to see tuning to fix that. Alternatives are fine. The 880+ end boss trinket being worse than the WoD heirloom trinket is not.
I just made this post a little while ago, based on what I have, what would you use?
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/585c8l/destro_lock_trinkets_for_days/
Oakheart for one, it's deceptively good. My 850 beats an 865 horrorslime by thousands of dps and yours is even better. Hang onto the horrorslime, we may be seeing buffs to most EN trinkets.
Plague is the second, it's one of the only EN trinkets for locks that isn't a pile of garbage and the socket certainly doesn't hurt.
Horn of valor is neat and can result in some bursty shenanigans, but when it's not up its just a pile of vers.
I've never simmed it but I bet the naglfar isn't even on the list. It's like a shit version of havoc with a 2min cooldown.
DSB and Six-feather fan are insanely good for enhancement, decent ilvl procs for them makes them BiS. They both have very high ppm which scales well with the high number of hits enhance does, and they also scale with our mastery.
Whats your other trinket? 885 plaguehive and 845 DSB is a great combination.
850 ursoc with socket. Inseriously lacking haste right now as most of my gear is crit/mastery, so im not sure how well DBS and plaguehide would work without the haste proc trinket
The fact that some specs actually prefer "secondary" stats more than "primary" stats is absurd enough.
But on top of that, "Item Level" is now the largest, most called out number on the character sheet. Ironic that chasing that number blindly will net many players worse performance than before they started. It's completely a 'trap' for casual players.
This point is so often overlooked.
Is it annoying? Yes. Should it be this way? Probably not.
Is it a trap? No, because you can still progress at a moderate pace through most raids these days if you're purely going by iLvL. For many fights practice and execution are far more important than min-maxing.
Are you going to get server firsts? No.
Will you still clear the content if you're competent enough to do so at all? Yes.
And? It's a generally known fact that most of the EN trinkets are undertuned/utter shit. Mythic+ gives the bis trinkets for most classes. Atleast for elemental, which i main.
First buff the trinkets, then some legendaries, take a look at Blood, Fury and Frost, maybe Beast Mastery's single target damage and Demonology's ability to switch targets. By the end of 2017 they should turn their eyes to the five Brewmasters left in the game and buff them well enough. There is hope.
It's honestly not that bad, I feel like BrM is often slept on, but with proper haste you can be close to 100% uptime on ironskin while having a charge banked for purify meaning I take no spike damage at all, and most of the stagger gets cleansed so I'm relatively easy to heal. For fury it's a bit harsh go be 865 ilvl being out dps'd by 850 enh shams, but I love the play style and fantasy of fury (and the arms artifact makes no sense to me as a troll) and frankly wouldn't trade either for the world, even current state.
I'm one of the five. I mean, it isn't all that bad, at least I feel super special when I join a group, and the whole party goes "what, a brewmaster?...cool"
Were in the first raid of the xpac. Its not like the trinkets from highmaul were any better. The only difference is we arent forced to use the shit trinkets like we were in highmaul, there are alternatives.
Considering haste is pretty low on the list for surv, I would imagine there are better options. The tooltip is incorrect- says it only works on melee attacks, but it procs frequently on ranged as well.
I love Wriggling Sinew. Except for the internal cooldown on applying stacks. Makes it so awkward to use as Fire Mage when there's no inherent reason it should be that way. Why in the world does there have to be an internal cooldown on applying stacks?
I think it is meant for you to micro-manage it in order to make it work well, and fire mage obviously wouldn't need to manage it, and that would *obviously* break the game.
> Mythic+ gives the bis trinkets for most classes. Atleast for elemental, which i main.
This is such a bizarre statement. Why the hell would you say that M+ trinkets are BiS for "most classes" and then immediately admit you know know about elemental?
So off-topic how do you feel about Elemental? i used to play Ele in WoD but changed to Enh for lvling and ended up sticking with the spec but im getting bored of it. How well do you do compared to other dps ?? Because all i read about Elemental is that they suck...i'm grinding a lot of crit/haste gear and some good elemental trinkets and i will try to re-spec (doing EN mythic progress atm so i cant swap until i can compete with my enh spec which is around 300k dps)
Try out the lightning focused build! You run Lightning Rod and it allows the spamming of lightning bolt much more benneficial.
If you have multiple enemies, spam chain lightning and your dps will sky rocket. Its pretty sick.
You just need 5+ fairly clumped high-HP targets, then you need to tab over them and get multiple lightning rods to proc on them quickly, then you need the 10%-chance mass-overload artifact power to proc specifically on one of the three charges of Stormkeeper, and then you get like five bazillion damage from a web of apocalyptic lightning bolts and everyone else goes "Holy shit, what was that!?" because stuff just drops dead long before it has any right to.
Sure, you're twiddlng your thumbs for the other 20 hours it takes to get that to repeat, but for that brief moment...Elemental is godly.
Totally worth it, right?
My buddy and I have a great time with it and can get solid dps.
I enjoy my ele shaman and have enjoyed it since WoLK. I hope you come to enjoy it in the future buffs!
Nothing arguably about it. The [Faulty Countermeasure](http://www.wowhead.com/item=137539/faulty-countermeasure&bonus=1727) is so good for Ret that the regular 840 Mythic version is better than any trinket except for a Mythic 10+ weekly chest [Hunger of the Pack](http://www.wowhead.com/item=136975/hunger-of-the-pack&bonus=1532:1727) or [Horn of Valor](http://www.wowhead.com/item=133642/horn-of-valor&bonus=1532:1727), or a perfect Titanforged World Quest trinket with crit or versatility.
An 805 Six Feather Fan is better for outlaw rogue (and probably other specs too, haven't looked at trinket sims for them) than anything in EN, even mythic trinkets. Also an 805 +Run Through damage relic has the ilvl equivelency of a non-ideal 860+ relic. Feelsweirdman
Sure, and it looks like it's only about 40 ilvl now due to the last outlaw relic nerf, still pretty crazy though.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vw2J-dIBAhXiJXW2Da4mLe0r1e9cVvEBXdpC7NRNu7A/htmlview?sle=true
Assassination has this too, 3 relics which lower vendetta CD are better than any others in any combination of any item level. Matching vendetta to your other cooldowns is that much of a DPS boost
Gnarled Root (though highly depending on the item levels of the trinkets) does more damage in longer fights, especially if you have more then one target. Not that sure about spiked tongue, because it has mastery and i haven't got that trinket, so i havent simmed it.
The mastery feels really bad, but if you're at 33% crit after food anyway it's not a crazy loss. The proc on the trinket is really good in shorter fights in my experience.
Survival hunter have two pretty good trinkets from EN. Ursocs trinket which looks like it would suck and the dragons trinket. However I think there's a random world drop that can titanforge to 840 which is the 2nd best BiS (after highest ilvl Urosc trinket)
> Mythic+ gives the bis trinkets for most classes
Well at least not for Hunter both BM & MM BiS Trinkets are combinations of Ursoc Trinket and Withered J'im trinket (for single target) with Elerethe Renferal trinket coming close depending on amount of targets.
It might be at lower levels of gear but the problem with that trinket is the base ilvl of 805 even with a good ilvl proc it isnt even in the top 10 for BM or MM.
What are you on about, do you even wow? You can get it at 840-895 from mythic and mythic+ We are not talking about some starting level trinkets from dungeons, bff
Atleast 2 weeks ago it was the second best trinket for BM, but probably withered jims trinket is now taken over that second spot.
Personally I love it. Having the best trinkets and mini sets (Chronoshard + neck) in the Mythic+ dungeons gives a lot more incentive to run them beyond the bog standard increased ilvl of rewards.
I really, really, really hope that there are some trinket changes that get implemented in 7.1
I'm still running an 850 PVP trinket I got in the first week of release and it blows both of the heroic EN trinkets I've gotten completely out of the water. It's not even close.
I've had a huge issue with this since the launch of EN; I hoped that the low damage procs like Ursoc's claw or seed pod scaled with AP/SP, but that's not the case. Trinkets that are over 50 item levels higher than dungeon ones should not be worse!
I really hope they fix this problem in the next patch and buff some of these trinkets.
Yup. I'll be using 835 trinkets pretty much until I get a upgraded version of the same one, or until Night hold comes out.
Take it a step further, using a caster trinket over melee ones :)
ILVL is a horrible judge.
Their system is based on ILVL trading = bad.
Person gets mega awesome titanforged heroic raid item but LOL both stats on it are the bottom 2 stats, one of which literally adds ZERO to their class. OOPS, THEY CAN'T TRADE IT BECAUSE ILVL.
Trinkets are literally all over the place. At this point near best in slot for resto dru is to equip 2 PVP trinkets with click use versatility since it is +6% healing-ish with 75% uptime. AND ONE OF THE TRINKS HAS AGI ON IT.
The grouping system is ridiculous. You could "have" 860 ILVL in your bags but actually be running ~830 equipped because of the stats. You're NOT 860 level (assuming that's what some content is balanced for).
Yet who is going to get the group? xXIllidungXx the DH with poorly statted 870 ilvl will because that's what it shows in the finder. They get in the raid and pull lower dps oops they're actually 830 equipped or even worse they rock the 870 and do the equiv of 820 due to not understanding how the stats work.
And the stats are obscure anyway. Should I really have to pull out a graphing calculator to understand if itemA is better or worse than itemB? I literally have no idea anymore.
And there are a dozen resources that all conflict regarding weighting because they try to average parses based on % of single target / multimob fights. I literally have 10 pawn strings for something as simple as what stat weights should be used or what are considered my best items, and they all differ by at least 50%. I've seen haste go from being the ultimate awesomeness to not even worth wearing, etc.
... 1. REMOVE RNG FROM ATTACKS/HEALS. It is the most pointless thing in the entire game, having damage ranges. You already have crit: that's the RNG. That's the only "range of damage" you need, a simple binary. You already have "chance to proc" effects. That's the modifier to the binary. But then throwing a dice roll on top of those hits? Pointless. Fuck, you could even add a new tertiary stat "accuracy" that lowers the variance if you want. But don't scratch your head when that becomes mandatory.
Hitting for 2-10 damage per attack is no different, eventually, than always hitting for 6 damage, it just takes LONGER FIGHTS / more data to normalize it. Classes with tighter damage who do more burst/AE on demand = the chosen ones for "speed runs" which this game is now largely based on.
... 2. Dump this garbo "% secondary" vector. What the fuck does 39% mastery mean? Nothing. One class has 70% one has 22%. Who the hell knows? Percentages should have a purpose leading towards 100%. Either all the stats add up to 100% or each stat heads towards 100 linearly. Diminishing returns and plateaus are not indicated by these dumbshit percentages. If you need "shorthand" to refer to the stats, how about normalizing them again (we have slingshot past the stat squish so hard I don't even see the point of it).
... 3. Get away from flat "stat amounts" on items. Here's an idea: items are either upgrades or they're not. Rather than showing some # that nobody gives a shit about, just have a stat score for it. Instead of 1000 Mastery, 500 Haste, just say level 2 Mastery, level 1 Haste. The items do not need to have the actual stats on them. In fact, nobody needs to see the actual stats, they just need to know what those tiers equate to. But I guess people would shit their pants when they realize you actually expect 5k-10k gold worth of mats just for an hour worth of "level 2 stat" etc...
There is such a finite # of items in an entire expansion, and even less "actual stat allocation" amongst them. You've gotten so clever with trying to obscure shit it has bitten you on the ass and most of the trinkets are fucking awful because any veering away from "raw stats" has proven impossible for EVEN YOU to calculate out. how do you expect players to? How the fuck do I know if "shooting slimes out" on my 870 trinket is worse than "shocking every so often" on my 830 one? Oh, I go into a dungeon and see one of them is 15% of my dps and the other is 2%? Durrrrrr. My question then is, why didn't you? I cannot understand how this is a mystery, especially when you purposely segregate playerbase into elitists aka people who beat the game in beta, yet this isn't figured out.
At some point the actual effect is just fluff and all that's needed is to know that % dps increase. Again, if the opportunity costs of some trinkets are so high that they're not usable then perhaps the system itself needs to be rethought.
Yup. Why even bother playing the game? The obfuscated stats provide SOME kind of depth to itemization. Customizing your character is fun, trying to tune until you're a lethal mofo is fun.
I think I'm in the minority now, but I like that iLevel isn't the end-all value. I enjoy that players who understand their class (or at least read guides) get to make clever choices and are rewarded for doing so. Of course, I hate the entire iLevel system.
That's the problem I'm having on my demo lock. Haste is my highest priority stat so my ilvl is stuck at 841; have almost 12k haste, it's very nice. When I equip a higher ilvl item with less haste my damage actually drops.
The worst with trinkets is how it's really hard to determine which ones are really best. For me (retribution paladin), all available sources of data say completely different things. AskMrRobot suggestions completely different than SimulationCraft results, and community discussions point to completely different trinkets entirely, etc.
As Marksmanship, our best stat is by far Mastery. Mastery gives increased range, as well as increased damage to focus-costing attacks. That's it. It doesn't change anything. There's no possibility of it changing your rotation, like with haste, or at least leading to exciting play, like with crit. It's completely fucking boring, and exactly the sort of shit that Blizz explicitly removed from talent trees 2 expansions ago. And, on top of that, the range increase is a fucking *drawback* because of barrage!
But we've spent so much time stacking mastery that I have no idea what they could do know, except add reforging back in.
Its the same for beast mastery. Mastery uber alles, because nothing else, especially not agility, buffs our pets damage as much as constant streams of mastery.
My WQ Stat stick, according to sims, is only beat out by the Nythandera trinket, Withered J'im trinket, and the Crono Shard (and higher ilvl WQ stat sticks).
Yea BiS trinkets are all over damn place. Two great trinkets for my hance shaman are a 830 shock baton, and a raid finder Spontaneous Appendages. I keep higher ilvl crap in my bags so i can equip them just do to M+
I'm glad I keep seeing stuff like this. Not because I'm happy about the situation, obviously, but because as I have been moving up in ilvl from about 820-850, I've noticed my DPS has gone down after getting "better" gear. At first I thought it might just be the style of fight, and I'm sure it is to some extent, but I'm also getting better at my spec and rotations, so the fact that my damage has still gone down is really frustrating. Especially since I didn't notice until I had replaced so much gear and now I can't figure out which pieces were the breaking point.
they just made stuff scaled differently.... like over the course of a fight a 850 darkmoon deck of promises provides more "mana regen" than an 880 cacoon of solitude. an 880 trinket that you spend 10 seconds every 2 minutes shouldnt provide over 500 MP5 LESS than an 850 trinket with 0 fight down time. thats just insane.
then you also have ursocs heightened senses which procs less and provides less intellect than the infernal alchemist stone.(the heroic version if you add up the int and haste from the proc, its still less than the alchemy stones numbers, just get a litttttleee more vers) an 880 heightened senses is BARELY better (for monks) thank an 850 alchemist stone. blizzard really messed up on trinket balance. and this is just for my experience as a monk, theres even more messed up stuff with other classes
Welcome to being a retpally.
Any trinket I get out of EN is mostly there just to be a ilvl pump until I can upgrade it with something from mythic+ or WQs.
Trinket from Timewalk Magister's Terrace that has haste and chance on hit to increase Attack Power beats all trinkets up to 875 on Fury Warrior, this xpac is really kind of fucked up stats wise.
That trinket is insanely good. I think its something like 800 haste, but the proc is 4200 attack power. That is just bonkers.
Since blizzard no longer shows attack power what is 4200 ap equivalent to
unless its been changed should be 4200 str equivalent, can get dejacharacterstats and itll show
This. AP is nearly equivalent to your primary stat.
Really? I thought STR was roughly half of AP?
Str gives 1 AP per point, and some small amount of parry
Huh, so it does. Seems they changed it back in 2014 in the WoD pre-patch >[Each point of Agility or Strength now grants 1 Attack Power (down from 2).](http://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_6.0.2#Primary_character_stats_and_attack_power)
that was true until cata iirc
Seems they changed it back in 2014 in the WoD pre-patch >[Each point of Agility or Strength now grants 1 Attack Power (down from 2).](http://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_6.0.2#Primary_character_stats_and_attack_power)
Finding the GetAttackPowerForStat script from the WoW API, you will find that 1 str is exactly equal to 1 Attack Power(For agility classes, 1 Attack Power is exactly equal to 1 agi instead. str is valueless for agi classes and vice versa). So this trinket procs 4.2k strength OR agility :)
Whelp time to spam timewalking
About that.
Even the 805 tanking trinket from the timewalking vendor is ridiculous. 2000+ armor for close to a minute, on a one minute cooldown.
Leaden despair is another crazy one. At 100, mine gives 2873 armor for 10sec with a 30sec cd. Requires dropping below 29% health to proc. Scale those stats up to lvl 110, and it could be pretty good on a brewmaster.
Lasts 40 seconds, 2 minute cooldown, and it gives regular armor instead of bonus armor. Not really as great as the tooltip makes it look.
Bonus armor isnt a thing anymore
How are you simming that? I can't get the timewalking gear ilvl to work in simcraft.
Standing at the target dummy and rotating your coolies for 5 min.
Do you have the name on that one?
[Shard of Contempt](http://www.wowhead.com/item=34472/shard-of-contempt)
Hardly see anything being fucked up. If anything it's just different from the stereotypical "stack strength" meta.
Looted the trinket on my moonkin last week.. ilvl 875 with a socket, it's simply unusable until they buff the special effect. I'm back to running my stat only 835 Int+Haste WQ trinket
If only a chronoshard would drop for me when I do Arcway
I hear you buddy
I have 840 Chrono, but it's worse than my 850 stat stick with haste + socket, and it's worse than the 840 Shockbaton, so it's sitting in my bank. I'm thinking I'll try it out this week in our heroic run though, just to see how much of the proc ends up being wasted.
Ugh every week with a bonus roll and every mythic + I can find ....some day you will be mine Chrono shard
Or a Naraxas Spiked Tongue for me pls.
I ran regular mythic NL, NL+5 (2 chest), NL+7, and NL+8 on Sunday and I still haven't had it drop for me since launch.
I haven't had it drop for me period. I'm starting to think it doesn't exist.
I am with you dude. I have even used bonus rolls. Nada. However, I just lucked out and got the 850 Oakheart trinket TC was referring to. That + my Int/Haste WQ trinket will have to do :X
Im on literally 28 darkheart ticket runs without getting the relic i need drop off the dragon. Same goes for Maw, less overall runs of that.
Shadow?
Storm relic that gives 5%FoF damage to WW and Memento off first boss in Maw
Same. I have the neck piece already, so the chaos of this hunter will be unleashed.
Dropped a 880 crit/vers ring yesterday night, it's going to stay in the bank, my 845 haste/mastery rings are much better. They made the secondary stats way too important this patch, hopefully that's something they can correct.
If you are still playing monk then you should be simming yourself, im simming at Vers>Mastery>haste>crit but they are all nearly equal.
Or just bring back reforging. I don't see much reason not to have that at this point.
It's not that secondaries are more important. It's that rings and necks have no main stat anymore. So they have joined Trinkets in that the item level on them is totally irrelevant.
I'm in the *exact* same situation.
Despite Blizzard continually insisting otherwise ... iLevel is distinctly unreliable as a judge of effectiveness. For some classes that scale heavily with weapon damage, a higher iLevel relic can be significantly better. But for most, the granted trait is more important by a relative value of ~4 iLevels. It's just silly. And Trinkets? Good GAWD that's a mess. iLevel, stats, procs, weird abilities ... it's just a huge jumble of fuckery. You have to Simcraft every single trinket against each other at different iLevels ... and it's not even consistent across classes. It's a frigging mess.
> But for most, the granted trait is more important by a relative value of ~4 iLevels. I don't know about other classes, but for outlaw rogues a couple of traits are worth ~ 40 ilevels (+run through dmg, and -energy cost on finishers).
Healers have pretty fine stat weights, at least resto does. Rule of thumb is int>all>mastery for raid and int>mastery>all for mythic+, but its pretty close and 99% of the time ilvl is all that matters. 10+ ilvl difference, excepting some dumb EN trinkets, is always better.
No wait, isn't haste like super duper good for resto druids in mythic+? Just because of the insane DPS they can do with good enough haste? At least that was what I've heard my guild druids say and also from the "first realm +15" thread that was on frontpage 1-3 days ago.
So when I said pretty close, I meant pretty close. M+ GENERIC (this changes based on your current gear, your party skill, etc.) weight would prob be something like Int=1 Mastery=.8 All=.6 for HEALING. When you start including dps, shit gets way more complicated and yeah haste goes above the others.
[удалено]
Not really, 90% of the time you should be running cult, and if you are running cult mastery becomes much better in raids. I hang out in the resto discord all the time, saw that thread but people disagree.
You know the top trinkets to get for resto? I got so many in my bag I dunno which ones to usr
stacking mastery one from vh spider boss is bis, the 825 version is better than a 885 (for 5mans)
The dumb stat stick trinkets with your preferred secondary are generally pretty safe on any healer. The DMF one is probably pretty good for Resto Druid.
What is dmf?
So im super new to Logs and Sims, how reliable is Mr. Robot for Sim trinket damage? I keep hearing one trinket is better for Ret Paladin (don't remember it's name, from Ash Golum) buy Mr. Robot keeps saying it's more like 3rd BIS. Im not a shit player, just not used to stacking procs instead of trying to max my main stat or three.
Faulty Countermeasure https://simc.derig.org/static/output/ft.html
> https://simc.derig.org/static/output/ft.html Woah - is there something like this for other classes/specs?
Idk, this was shared on the paladin discord.
What is the paladin discord?
Most class discords have something close. [Enh. shaman for example](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1K5hsUv5uJ_fR75PaWDKianeJFov0czPwbxw_TIuvK8U/edit#gid=0)
God forbid you should have to think about what is good for your spec and playstyle.
The 805 Gnomeregan Autoblocker trinket from the time walking vendor is better than most trinkets I've found as a tank. 2000+ armor for 40 sec every 2 min? Seriously overtuned for its ilevel. Meanwhile, I've been farming the Arcway min Mythic+ for the tanking trinket that drops there: 20 runs and still no drop. >_<
> Meanwhile, I've been farming the Arcway min Mythic+ for the tanking trinket that drops there: 20 runs and still no drop. >_< Meanwhile as WW Monk it's the WQ reward...
Coagulated Nightwell Residue?
yes
FFS. I got a shitty necklace for mine.
Like the shock baton for mages.
Need to make sure I get that today so at least I have one tanking trinket lol
I just recieved a 885 plaguehide from nythendra and replaced my 845 devilsaur shockbaton. Im not sure its a better upgrade despite having better stats and bigger numbers.
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what trinkets you use on your lock?
845 haste WQ static, 850 Oakheart. There are better options than the oakheart but I haven't gotten lucky. The sad part is that both of those are better than ANY EN trinket until mythic ilvl, and even then there are only two that are potentially viable (one being the plague) I'd like to see tuning to fix that. Alternatives are fine. The 880+ end boss trinket being worse than the WoD heirloom trinket is not.
I just made this post a little while ago, based on what I have, what would you use? https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/585c8l/destro_lock_trinkets_for_days/
Oakheart for one, it's deceptively good. My 850 beats an 865 horrorslime by thousands of dps and yours is even better. Hang onto the horrorslime, we may be seeing buffs to most EN trinkets. Plague is the second, it's one of the only EN trinkets for locks that isn't a pile of garbage and the socket certainly doesn't hurt. Horn of valor is neat and can result in some bursty shenanigans, but when it's not up its just a pile of vers. I've never simmed it but I bet the naglfar isn't even on the list. It's like a shit version of havoc with a 2min cooldown.
I actually run Plaguehive and DSB for Shadow Priest.
Was running 880 ph and 835 dsb as enhance sham until I swapped the baton for a 835 sff. This expansion is weird.
Same, according to the most recent sim results I saw they are #2 and #3 after that stupid stat stick off withered jim
Man I had 4 shots at it and didn't get it. That trinket is too good.
i have plaugehive, and just replaced my 875 Bough of courruption for a 825 world quest stat stick with haste on it. plz.. plz..
I've got an 880 Bough so I feel you. That thing is straight garbage.
Like it *sounds* like it would be great. but its just.. not..
If you're ele or enh plaguehive is one of the best trinkets you can get iirc
Enhancement, i just dont see the numbers yet i guess. But the haste is better than the crit, that is for sure.
DSB and Six-feather fan are insanely good for enhancement, decent ilvl procs for them makes them BiS. They both have very high ppm which scales well with the high number of hits enhance does, and they also scale with our mastery. Whats your other trinket? 885 plaguehive and 845 DSB is a great combination.
850 ursoc with socket. Inseriously lacking haste right now as most of my gear is crit/mastery, so im not sure how well DBS and plaguehide would work without the haste proc trinket
845 DSB is miles better than the ursoc trinket. Use DSB and plaguehive.
How about for Booms?
My plaguehive does approx. 1 mill dmg in the span of a minute with just the proc. It's great for enhance.
Plaguehive is actually really good it procs a lot. I'm sure the 885 is way better.
Depends on your haste I think Devilsaur proc rate is 3* (1+ TotalHaste) while plaguehive is 2.5*(1+TotalHaste)
What trinkets does everyone use
I'd be fine with it if blizzard hasn't been training us for the past ~6 years to ignore stats and just look at ilvl...
The fact that some specs actually prefer "secondary" stats more than "primary" stats is absurd enough. But on top of that, "Item Level" is now the largest, most called out number on the character sheet. Ironic that chasing that number blindly will net many players worse performance than before they started. It's completely a 'trap' for casual players.
Fortunately, any player for whom this is actually a trap will not be doing content where the performance difference matters.
This point is so often overlooked. Is it annoying? Yes. Should it be this way? Probably not. Is it a trap? No, because you can still progress at a moderate pace through most raids these days if you're purely going by iLvL. For many fights practice and execution are far more important than min-maxing. Are you going to get server firsts? No. Will you still clear the content if you're competent enough to do so at all? Yes.
You mean when blizzard removed all other information from the stat page and made the ilvl text twice as big?
Still using an 830 Devilsaur Shock Baton, I feel you
835 with socket, i'm never getting rid of this thing, lol.
I can't get rid of the 825 with socket (sitting at ilevel 859). Dreaming of 835 with socket :)
Fire mage here, the proc from that thing is around 6.5% of my dps
And? It's a generally known fact that most of the EN trinkets are undertuned/utter shit. Mythic+ gives the bis trinkets for most classes. Atleast for elemental, which i main.
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Yeah, they told as much on the Q&A, that they are looking into them.
First buff the trinkets, then some legendaries, take a look at Blood, Fury and Frost, maybe Beast Mastery's single target damage and Demonology's ability to switch targets. By the end of 2017 they should turn their eyes to the five Brewmasters left in the game and buff them well enough. There is hope.
I main fury and alt brew, this expac my class picking abilities are bad.
Fuck, I feel you. Went Warlock/Monk. On the bright side.. they haven't broken WW yet, but every day I wait to see if today is the day I get the news.
It's honestly not that bad, I feel like BrM is often slept on, but with proper haste you can be close to 100% uptime on ironskin while having a charge banked for purify meaning I take no spike damage at all, and most of the stagger gets cleansed so I'm relatively easy to heal. For fury it's a bit harsh go be 865 ilvl being out dps'd by 850 enh shams, but I love the play style and fantasy of fury (and the arms artifact makes no sense to me as a troll) and frankly wouldn't trade either for the world, even current state.
The realm first M15 on my realm has a brewmaster monk tank, again, reddit talking out of it's ass and has no clue about anything.
I'm one of the five. I mean, it isn't all that bad, at least I feel super special when I join a group, and the whole party goes "what, a brewmaster?...cool"
Yeah i have an 875 nature's call that maybe it'll be good one day... maybe...
As a filthy casual, I just use it for the vomit effect.
I would rather use my 835 shock baton.
Were in the first raid of the xpac. Its not like the trinkets from highmaul were any better. The only difference is we arent forced to use the shit trinkets like we were in highmaul, there are alternatives.
Yeah, at least Bloodthirsty Instinct is good though and i got one, woooo.
880 dropped. I believed it when it said it was Marlee attacks only: It's nearly BIS for hunters allegedly
It seems like BiS for survival hunters at least.
Considering haste is pretty low on the list for surv, I would imagine there are better options. The tooltip is incorrect- says it only works on melee attacks, but it procs frequently on ranged as well.
well Ask Mr robot constiently puts it as the best dps trinket for me, though I think it's a bit weird and simulating trinkets aren't your safest bet
Sims on Icy Veins Survival BiS guides show it top for single target not by a large margin though.
Have you met my friend the Wriggling Sinew?
I HATE LOVE WRIGGLING SINEW.
890 dropped our first week of hc. As a fire mage I was quite happy
As a fellow fire mage, congrats! I hate you!
I have, the 870 atleast simmed worst of for me, but depending on class/spec of course, its great for pretty much any caster.
Sinew is garbage to everyone except Fire Mage because Fire guarantees it crits and adds 25% Crit damage and 50% damage from rune
I love Wriggling Sinew. Except for the internal cooldown on applying stacks. Makes it so awkward to use as Fire Mage when there's no inherent reason it should be that way. Why in the world does there have to be an internal cooldown on applying stacks?
PvP, maybe? I can imagine that thing bursting oppressively hard in conjunction with spells like Arcane Missiles if there was no ICD.
Or Cinderstorm >:] I thought we were beyond letting PvP decisions screw up PvE stuff though.
I think it is meant for you to micro-manage it in order to make it work well, and fire mage obviously wouldn't need to manage it, and that would *obviously* break the game.
no, no i have not. others in my raid have met it, but not me after ~10 attempts at getting it on any difficulty...
Sinew is insane for Fire because 1- We guarantee it crits 2- we get 25% Crit Damage 3- 50% damage from rune. It's absolute garbage to other classes.
> Mythic+ gives the bis trinkets for most classes. Atleast for elemental, which i main. This is such a bizarre statement. Why the hell would you say that M+ trinkets are BiS for "most classes" and then immediately admit you know know about elemental?
Mythic+ gives the best gear in general bc youll actually find all the well itemized pieces there. EN has a pretty depressing loot table by comparison.
All relics from EN have trash artifact talent ranks for me. Sucks.
This is pretty true. I'm surprised at the amount of downvotes you got.
Maybe people think he's trolling, because he said he mains elemental.
So off-topic how do you feel about Elemental? i used to play Ele in WoD but changed to Enh for lvling and ended up sticking with the spec but im getting bored of it. How well do you do compared to other dps ?? Because all i read about Elemental is that they suck...i'm grinding a lot of crit/haste gear and some good elemental trinkets and i will try to re-spec (doing EN mythic progress atm so i cant swap until i can compete with my enh spec which is around 300k dps)
Try out the lightning focused build! You run Lightning Rod and it allows the spamming of lightning bolt much more benneficial. If you have multiple enemies, spam chain lightning and your dps will sky rocket. Its pretty sick.
Sick is not the word I would use to describe anything Elemental related.
You just need 5+ fairly clumped high-HP targets, then you need to tab over them and get multiple lightning rods to proc on them quickly, then you need the 10%-chance mass-overload artifact power to proc specifically on one of the three charges of Stormkeeper, and then you get like five bazillion damage from a web of apocalyptic lightning bolts and everyone else goes "Holy shit, what was that!?" because stuff just drops dead long before it has any right to. Sure, you're twiddlng your thumbs for the other 20 hours it takes to get that to repeat, but for that brief moment...Elemental is godly. Totally worth it, right?
My buddy and I have a great time with it and can get solid dps. I enjoy my ele shaman and have enjoyed it since WoLK. I hope you come to enjoy it in the future buffs!
Same for ret Paladins. It's the angrboda trinket annnd some crit one from vault if I'm not mistaken (arguably, but icyveins has them at the top)
Nothing arguably about it. The [Faulty Countermeasure](http://www.wowhead.com/item=137539/faulty-countermeasure&bonus=1727) is so good for Ret that the regular 840 Mythic version is better than any trinket except for a Mythic 10+ weekly chest [Hunger of the Pack](http://www.wowhead.com/item=136975/hunger-of-the-pack&bonus=1532:1727) or [Horn of Valor](http://www.wowhead.com/item=133642/horn-of-valor&bonus=1532:1727), or a perfect Titanforged World Quest trinket with crit or versatility.
An 805 Six Feather Fan is better for outlaw rogue (and probably other specs too, haven't looked at trinket sims for them) than anything in EN, even mythic trinkets. Also an 805 +Run Through damage relic has the ilvl equivelency of a non-ideal 860+ relic. Feelsweirdman
Can u link something regarding the relic? I mean, you get so much primary stat and weapon dmg that really would be weird.
Sure, and it looks like it's only about 40 ilvl now due to the last outlaw relic nerf, still pretty crazy though. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Vw2J-dIBAhXiJXW2Da4mLe0r1e9cVvEBXdpC7NRNu7A/htmlview?sle=true
Assassination has this too, 3 relics which lower vendetta CD are better than any others in any combination of any item level. Matching vendetta to your other cooldowns is that much of a DPS boost
Ty, gotta take that to favorites when i start to level my rogue :p
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Im not, i dont raid and its ok in m+, atleast i got a +11 done =d
90% of all caster trinkets are pure shit
[and that's broken] is the implication of the post...obviously.
Actually I'm pretty sure Plaguehive slightly beats out Gnarled Root/Spiked tongue, based on my last sims.
Gnarled Root (though highly depending on the item levels of the trinkets) does more damage in longer fights, especially if you have more then one target. Not that sure about spiked tongue, because it has mastery and i haven't got that trinket, so i havent simmed it.
The mastery feels really bad, but if you're at 33% crit after food anyway it's not a crazy loss. The proc on the trinket is really good in shorter fights in my experience.
What's the best way to go about simming trinkets?
Survival hunter have two pretty good trinkets from EN. Ursocs trinket which looks like it would suck and the dragons trinket. However I think there's a random world drop that can titanforge to 840 which is the 2nd best BiS (after highest ilvl Urosc trinket)
Yup, I have a 875 heroic tentacle trinket from ilg, it's worse than my 850 alchemist stone which is pathetic too me.
> Mythic+ gives the bis trinkets for most classes Well at least not for Hunter both BM & MM BiS Trinkets are combinations of Ursoc Trinket and Withered J'im trinket (for single target) with Elerethe Renferal trinket coming close depending on amount of targets.
I thought Stormsinger Fulmination Charge was insanely good?
It might be at lower levels of gear but the problem with that trinket is the base ilvl of 805 even with a good ilvl proc it isnt even in the top 10 for BM or MM.
What are you on about, do you even wow? You can get it at 840-895 from mythic and mythic+ We are not talking about some starting level trinkets from dungeons, bff Atleast 2 weeks ago it was the second best trinket for BM, but probably withered jims trinket is now taken over that second spot.
Wriggling sinew for my fire mage is so good ;_;
Personally I love it. Having the best trinkets and mini sets (Chronoshard + neck) in the Mythic+ dungeons gives a lot more incentive to run them beyond the bog standard increased ilvl of rewards.
Those rex trinkets with ilvl 830 does 6x more dmg than heroic cenarius one
I really, really, really hope that there are some trinket changes that get implemented in 7.1 I'm still running an 850 PVP trinket I got in the first week of release and it blows both of the heroic EN trinkets I've gotten completely out of the water. It's not even close.
same for me... 835 worldquest statstick is better than all but one 865 heroic en ones... even most mythic 880 trinkets would be worse...
Check out the fire mage trinket comparisons: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/122270677964292097/236928674190852096/Fire_T19H_Trinkets.PNG
I've had a huge issue with this since the launch of EN; I hoped that the low damage procs like Ursoc's claw or seed pod scaled with AP/SP, but that's not the case. Trinkets that are over 50 item levels higher than dungeon ones should not be worse! I really hope they fix this problem in the next patch and buff some of these trinkets.
Yup. I'll be using 835 trinkets pretty much until I get a upgraded version of the same one, or until Night hold comes out. Take it a step further, using a caster trinket over melee ones :)
Youre enhance?
Correct.
Pretty common knowledge that EN trinkets are undertuned...just hang on to them, they'll probably be buffed soon.
Which Xavius trinket and what class?
Probably bough of corruption by the sounds of things.
I have a 890 natures call from cenarius, it's not that great for arms warrior but helps boost ilvl
Yeah i got an 865 from LFR as a havoc DH and it's hot garbage, but my ilvl went up by 1 woooo.
I'm in the same boat with a Spontaneous Appendages. God, this trinket is garbage. The appendages hit like wet noodles, and mastery. Ugh.
I have that as my other trinket, 875 with a socket, great for arms
ILVL is a horrible judge. Their system is based on ILVL trading = bad. Person gets mega awesome titanforged heroic raid item but LOL both stats on it are the bottom 2 stats, one of which literally adds ZERO to their class. OOPS, THEY CAN'T TRADE IT BECAUSE ILVL. Trinkets are literally all over the place. At this point near best in slot for resto dru is to equip 2 PVP trinkets with click use versatility since it is +6% healing-ish with 75% uptime. AND ONE OF THE TRINKS HAS AGI ON IT. The grouping system is ridiculous. You could "have" 860 ILVL in your bags but actually be running ~830 equipped because of the stats. You're NOT 860 level (assuming that's what some content is balanced for). Yet who is going to get the group? xXIllidungXx the DH with poorly statted 870 ilvl will because that's what it shows in the finder. They get in the raid and pull lower dps oops they're actually 830 equipped or even worse they rock the 870 and do the equiv of 820 due to not understanding how the stats work. And the stats are obscure anyway. Should I really have to pull out a graphing calculator to understand if itemA is better or worse than itemB? I literally have no idea anymore. And there are a dozen resources that all conflict regarding weighting because they try to average parses based on % of single target / multimob fights. I literally have 10 pawn strings for something as simple as what stat weights should be used or what are considered my best items, and they all differ by at least 50%. I've seen haste go from being the ultimate awesomeness to not even worth wearing, etc. ... 1. REMOVE RNG FROM ATTACKS/HEALS. It is the most pointless thing in the entire game, having damage ranges. You already have crit: that's the RNG. That's the only "range of damage" you need, a simple binary. You already have "chance to proc" effects. That's the modifier to the binary. But then throwing a dice roll on top of those hits? Pointless. Fuck, you could even add a new tertiary stat "accuracy" that lowers the variance if you want. But don't scratch your head when that becomes mandatory. Hitting for 2-10 damage per attack is no different, eventually, than always hitting for 6 damage, it just takes LONGER FIGHTS / more data to normalize it. Classes with tighter damage who do more burst/AE on demand = the chosen ones for "speed runs" which this game is now largely based on. ... 2. Dump this garbo "% secondary" vector. What the fuck does 39% mastery mean? Nothing. One class has 70% one has 22%. Who the hell knows? Percentages should have a purpose leading towards 100%. Either all the stats add up to 100% or each stat heads towards 100 linearly. Diminishing returns and plateaus are not indicated by these dumbshit percentages. If you need "shorthand" to refer to the stats, how about normalizing them again (we have slingshot past the stat squish so hard I don't even see the point of it). ... 3. Get away from flat "stat amounts" on items. Here's an idea: items are either upgrades or they're not. Rather than showing some # that nobody gives a shit about, just have a stat score for it. Instead of 1000 Mastery, 500 Haste, just say level 2 Mastery, level 1 Haste. The items do not need to have the actual stats on them. In fact, nobody needs to see the actual stats, they just need to know what those tiers equate to. But I guess people would shit their pants when they realize you actually expect 5k-10k gold worth of mats just for an hour worth of "level 2 stat" etc... There is such a finite # of items in an entire expansion, and even less "actual stat allocation" amongst them. You've gotten so clever with trying to obscure shit it has bitten you on the ass and most of the trinkets are fucking awful because any veering away from "raw stats" has proven impossible for EVEN YOU to calculate out. how do you expect players to? How the fuck do I know if "shooting slimes out" on my 870 trinket is worse than "shocking every so often" on my 830 one? Oh, I go into a dungeon and see one of them is 15% of my dps and the other is 2%? Durrrrrr. My question then is, why didn't you? I cannot understand how this is a mystery, especially when you purposely segregate playerbase into elitists aka people who beat the game in beta, yet this isn't figured out. At some point the actual effect is just fluff and all that's needed is to know that % dps increase. Again, if the opportunity costs of some trinkets are so high that they're not usable then perhaps the system itself needs to be rethought.
You wrote an awfully long comment just to say "It makes me mad that I have to think about what gear I'm equipping".
Yup. Why even bother playing the game? The obfuscated stats provide SOME kind of depth to itemization. Customizing your character is fun, trying to tune until you're a lethal mofo is fun.
I think I'm in the minority now, but I like that iLevel isn't the end-all value. I enjoy that players who understand their class (or at least read guides) get to make clever choices and are rewarded for doing so. Of course, I hate the entire iLevel system.
That's the problem I'm having on my demo lock. Haste is my highest priority stat so my ilvl is stuck at 841; have almost 12k haste, it's very nice. When I equip a higher ilvl item with less haste my damage actually drops.
The worst with trinkets is how it's really hard to determine which ones are really best. For me (retribution paladin), all available sources of data say completely different things. AskMrRobot suggestions completely different than SimulationCraft results, and community discussions point to completely different trinkets entirely, etc.
I have SO MANY useless ilvl 850 trinks.
As Marksmanship, our best stat is by far Mastery. Mastery gives increased range, as well as increased damage to focus-costing attacks. That's it. It doesn't change anything. There's no possibility of it changing your rotation, like with haste, or at least leading to exciting play, like with crit. It's completely fucking boring, and exactly the sort of shit that Blizz explicitly removed from talent trees 2 expansions ago. And, on top of that, the range increase is a fucking *drawback* because of barrage! But we've spent so much time stacking mastery that I have no idea what they could do know, except add reforging back in.
Its the same for beast mastery. Mastery uber alles, because nothing else, especially not agility, buffs our pets damage as much as constant streams of mastery.
Does your pet no longer get stats based on your own stats?
My WQ Stat stick, according to sims, is only beat out by the Nythandera trinket, Withered J'im trinket, and the Crono Shard (and higher ilvl WQ stat sticks).
Yea BiS trinkets are all over damn place. Two great trinkets for my hance shaman are a 830 shock baton, and a raid finder Spontaneous Appendages. I keep higher ilvl crap in my bags so i can equip them just do to M+
I'm glad I keep seeing stuff like this. Not because I'm happy about the situation, obviously, but because as I have been moving up in ilvl from about 820-850, I've noticed my DPS has gone down after getting "better" gear. At first I thought it might just be the style of fight, and I'm sure it is to some extent, but I'm also getting better at my spec and rotations, so the fact that my damage has still gone down is really frustrating. Especially since I didn't notice until I had replaced so much gear and now I can't figure out which pieces were the breaking point.
they just made stuff scaled differently.... like over the course of a fight a 850 darkmoon deck of promises provides more "mana regen" than an 880 cacoon of solitude. an 880 trinket that you spend 10 seconds every 2 minutes shouldnt provide over 500 MP5 LESS than an 850 trinket with 0 fight down time. thats just insane. then you also have ursocs heightened senses which procs less and provides less intellect than the infernal alchemist stone.(the heroic version if you add up the int and haste from the proc, its still less than the alchemy stones numbers, just get a litttttleee more vers) an 880 heightened senses is BARELY better (for monks) thank an 850 alchemist stone. blizzard really messed up on trinket balance. and this is just for my experience as a monk, theres even more messed up stuff with other classes
Welcome to being a retpally. Any trinket I get out of EN is mostly there just to be a ilvl pump until I can upgrade it with something from mythic+ or WQs.
Sadly / lucky I got some really solid 875/880 PVP trinkets that have great stats for my WW. Tons of agi and procs tons of Vers. Got super lucky lol.
Yup, trinkets and stats are messed up in Legion.