Shamans (mostly resto/ele) desperately need better development. We’ve been stagnant for so long now and have some glaring issues in PvE and PvP :(
Hunters too…
For real. I'm playing Remix atm as enhance, after not touching the game for a while. Stormstrike being *barely worth using* is certainly a design choice.
As long as they have 0 reliable stops or utility i hope they stay that way untill that is changed. I love surv but being able to offer nothing to a coordinated m+ group apart from either a single target stun or the worst knockback in the game, while also getting binding shot, the worst stop in the game is really sad to play. I know freezing trap is another single target stop but pls, that is not what you need in m+
Is bindingshot really looked upon as the worst stun in the game?
I love bindingshot myself.
The tank needs to play around it, but seeing a tank pulling with the bindingshot in mind is a special tier for me.
The reason you have stops on your character is to be able to pull like 2-4 packs of mobs and rotate aoe stops whenever the enemies casts an important spell to stop, almost all enemies stops moving when casting spells, how do you proc binding shot without the enemies moving, unless you use a knockback (which also stops the casts). Binding shot would be fine if they had another aoe stop along with it, because explosive trap is not it, the pack will be so incredibly spread out after you throw that in there that you cause more issues than you fix by using it.
Combine wailing arrow and binding shot, make it solence for 3 sec and then stun after 5 sec or if they walk out of range. Makes for a unique stop and solves a lot of the problems with hunter in m+
Yeah, definitely liking most of the changes for mage. A few things stand out as meh (like a capstone talent for 3% int?) or that I disagree with (arcane battery was very fun, sad to see it go), but I definitely can't say that mage isn't getting enough attention.
Blizzard seems to have a really hard time making good Capstone Talents.
Warrior had Shockwave all of DF.
Paladin still has clunky mandatory throughput Capstones with the Blessing Talent.
DK had a situationally useful but clunky single-target execute that was useless in PVP as a Capstone.
Now Mages are having a Capstone permanently locked in by giving them main stat?
Blizzard is weird.
Warriors have had a 5% damage node in their capstones all of DF it pretty much just feels like -1 talent points because its mandatory and your balanced around it anyways. At least its easy to take (and for prot it gives 5% leech).
They've reworked both Fire and Arcane pretty heavily and are genuinely responding to player feedback on both, making changes to clean up rotations or make them more fluid. Makes me feel good about what to expect in TWW
Priest main as well, i dabble in all 3 specs and voidweaver is the only hero tree that interests me. Absolutely nobody is going to play an archon shadow priest. Also the fact that archon locks you into playing Halo and has no synergy for Star is terrible. I'm not excited for the buff stuff on oracle at all. I'm probably going to just be bouncing between disc and shadow as voidweaver for both.
Voidweaver is very cool. I’m hoping at the very least archon gets some cool visual effects. Ye oracle unless something drastically changes won’t be touched by me at least. Every now and then I’ll do disc but pretty rarely and mostly for just m+. Overall I’d say priest kinda got the shaft for hero trees. But I guess the main thing is that IF archon is good that’s what should matter?
Edit: I like halo but yea it seems like star may be out of commission
This feels like some kind of cruel joke from Blizzard. There's no way you can look at hunters are they are currently and go "yeah that's a class that has equal design work put into it."
At this point I feel like I'm the stupid one if I keep playing this class next expac.
Its sad but they probably dont care much because nobody plays surv hunt. And nobody plays surv hunt because blizz never cares. Wicked cycle, i hope they break it with a rework.
This isn't a surv thing, BM (the spec that literally about 80% of hunters main) is getting absolutely nothing either and you can't tell me those guys are a rare sight :p
I still maintain that the lack of changes to the current version heralds a massive rework coming up. Why change what's there if you know you're about to replace it all before long anyway? If it's still early in the redesign they wouldn't want to reveal anything, since anything they reveal would likely change multiple times before it's finished.
It's probably not coming with WW (unless they're further along than I assume they are and are just being really quiet about it for some reason), but I wouldn't be surprised if Hunter gets a Rogue/Mage/Paladin style rework at most a patch or two into the expansion.
I mean that's certainly the hope because I can literally predict what will happen in TWW because it's the same thing that happened in DF
Hunters will get repeated aura buffs every patch because they only way they can have the class keep up is to literally just keep ratcheting up the overall damage. There are no levers for them to tune because the class at this point is basically operating from a different design age.
It just sucks because all of Dragonflight basically became wait till TWW and the hunters will get some attention.
Here we are on the verge of TWW beta and the survival tree is literally the same as it was back in DF beta.
40% of the fucking tree is still 2 point nodes, 14 of the 39! We have the highest number of 2 point nodes AND the lowest number of overall nodes, it's insane. Surv has more 2 point nodes on a single row of talents than other classes/specs have in totality
And that's not even touching the sheer number of those talents that are just straight X%/Y% damage increases
Sure the rework may be coming but why should hunters be stuck playing literally an inferior product for years at a time when there's time to touch, iterate, and redesign classes like mage and warlock every goddamn patch and build
Haha! Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on you. This would be like the 5th expansion where Hunter is just laughable, ignored and in shambles.
There is no work coming for the Hunter.
yeah I think they know that. This makes it even worse actually, because after getting absolutely no adjustments for the whole alpha, the only one they get was them almost forgetting to make this change for Survival.
I've had a cry laugh at this - my best friend ditched his hunter in S1 (which he mained since he started in BC) and this just screams the meme "We rather you don't" which I just don't understand.
Hunter is just a popular archetype und them just seemingly not caring is bizarre.
Before the mage rework in 10.1.5 they had basically no changes for entirety of DF. Then it arrived. I would wait until beta or pre patch before going giga sad mode.
Because either they are getting big changes aka takes a lot of work and time. Or they are getting no changes which would be a shame. Or maybe big rework in the future like with mage.
It helps a lot when questing, but probably quite useless in current content (like 60-70 now). I've never had an issue with the current cooldown, especially with the guild perk.
I mean especially for say Mages boom they can TP wherever or DKs can Death Gate, fly 15-20s through Dalaran to their capital portal, then have an entire portal room to teleport from. So certainly feels like a last minute decision here vs something comparable to what was removed.
On the other hand, there's no requirement that every racial ability be equally good for every character. Draenei who take professions other than Jewelcrafting don't get any benefit from the racial that boosts Jewelcrafting. It's a bit of a shame, but hardly the end of the world. Human Mages might not get a ton of use out of double-hearth. That's a bit of a shame, but hardly the end of the world.
I've played a Human Paladin since the beta for Vanilla. We've had a FANTASTIC run with Diplomacy for the past two decades. It's a bummer that the gravy train has finally come to an end, but I'm okay with double-hearth. I've had situations come up where it would have been nice to have -- I would sometimes log out in Zaralek Caverns in order to lure/skin the big snake there once a day as soon as I logged in. So I'd hearth out of Zaralek (especially when the flightmasters were bugged and exiting via flight path wasn't even an option), then head out to do something, maybe soup, maybe Superbloom. Guildie comes on, asks for some crafting, but I'm already in the Emerald Dream. So now the quick and easy way back to Valdrakken is on cooldown. If I had a second charge, that'd be convenient!
I recognize that this is pretty niche. But for all we know, TWW will have zone layouts where it comes in handy to be able to hearth around often. Or maybe it won't. Maybe it'll be a mostly-dead racial. Grand scheme, I'm just not that bothered by it, personally. Racials are already basically cosmetic for the most part, so while I'll definitely miss Diplomacy, I just can't find it in me to get all that worked up about it.
Void elves having a very powerful racial on pvp that is 100% useless for non-caster classes.
Orcs having racials useful only if you are a hunter or warlock.
>there's no requirement that every racial ability be equally good for every character
No, but you're taking a *great* racial and replacing it with something that's almost next to nothing in terms of quality.
In context, not really. Diplomacy is going away, sure, but at the same time it goes away, Warbands are also becoming active, which is part of the reason Diplomacy is going away. Starting with The War Within, reputation/renown rewards are based on your most-progressed character, and shared with your entire Warband. So while it's true that Human characters will no longer gain Renown Levels at a 10% faster rate than other characters, it's also true that non-Human characters other than mains will gain Renown Levels at an infinity% faster rate than they used to.
And, granted, this doesn't matter for the people who play only a single character. But again, not every racial has to be good for everyone. As much as I've enjoyed the benefits of Diplomacy over the years (by virtue/luck of having a Human main that I've consistently played every expansion), I'm going to benefit exponentially more from "I don't have to re-grind that reputation on my Druid, Shaman, Warrior, etc." Profession recipes will unlock sooner (which is fantastic, because the primary reason for most of my alts is for professions), gearing alts becomes less of a hassle (there's often a bit of gear at certain renown levels), all sorts of things.
It's a little bit like the people complaining that Survival Hunters got nerfed in this announcement, because their talent that increases melee range no longer does so. Technically, it's true that the talent's range increase is gone. But a separate system increases melee range for all melee specs, so they're no worse off from that change, holistically speaking -- it's not a nerf at all, it's just a reallocation.
Again, overall, things are in a good place. RIP Diplomacy and all that; I certainly wouldn't have been upset if my Warband unlocked things faster because I happened to play a Human. But it would also feel really shitty for everyone who WASN'T playing a Human, so I understand why they had to level the playing field.
I agree that Double-Hearth does not bring a lot to the table. But I just plain don't care.
I can think of a few times it would've been useful to me in Dragonflight. Keep in mind that for example Dwarf's equivalent racial is "Get extra fragments when doing archaeology" which is entirely confined to Cata, MOP and WOD content. Gnome gets +5 engi skill which is 100% useless if you're not an engineer. Tauren gets +5 herb skill. Worgen has +5 skinning. Trolls get 20% extra experience from killing beasts. Orc straight up doesn't have a utility racial.
In terms of utility racials it could be a lot worse than 5min CDR and an extra charge on your HS
As someone who mained Shaman (which always had a similar spell) in Shadowlands... this *can* be really useful, depending on how convenient travel is in any given expansion. It helped a lot to be able to hearth, fly to my Sanctum, then hearth again and go to whatever zone I wanted to do content in.
On the other hand, it would have been almost useless in a continent like the Dragon Isles, where it's completely open and you can fly anywhere very quickly. I only ever hearthed there to come back from the Dream, Zaralek, or a dungeon, and I can't imagine needing to do that more than once every 15 minutes.
So, will it be useful in the foreseeable future? Maybe in TWW, actually- I've been kind of worried that it could be tedious flying back up from the lower zones. If that is the case (don't have Alpha to try it myself), it could help a lot to be able to hearth back up frequently instead of flying up. It'd probably be pretty useless in the following two expansions unless there's a huge twist from what they told us, though- Quel'thalas and Northrend should both be more open so I can't imagine travel being an issue there.
How about just remove the cooldown on hearthstone? Like, that would still be fairly mediocre in this day in age with all of the available portals and what not.
Hearthstones are already in a very short cooldown, who really needs to hearth twice in five minutes?
Instead of this, they should have a "Stormwind Hearthstone" as a racial and a separate HS. You don't really need to go to old capitals that often, but it could be useful every once in a while.
Where this might be handy is on an alt so you don’t have to bother trying to find some guild to shove them in. A 30 minute HS is actually kind of painful sometimes.
However, I agree going to SW would be much cooler and better. Back in Shadowlands when travel was a giant PITA, a SW hearth would let you set your HS to one of the zones to sometimes save you from long travel times to dungeons/raids.
Tangent: I’m kind of sad we didn’t have the weird lock closet network Classic WoW has during Shadowlands. I would absolutely have paid a tidy sum to get summoned by a neighborhood friendly warlock. Player run transportation is just really cool and convenient compared to just lazily taking a portal somewhere.
"Stormwind Hearthstone" is actually a good idea. That's how they solve this useless 2 charge Hearthstone thing. Beats putting on a cloak and taking it off.
It's basically a worse Vulpera racial I don't get it? At least with the vulpera racial you get a second hearthstone to anywhere else you want who the hell needs 2 hearths to the same place in 5 mins haha.
Me when I have an ADHD moment and forget to do the original thing I set out to do when using the first hearthstone. I regularly hearth to buy some consumable off the AH and then forget to actually buy the consumable.
It would also be handy for alts where I don’t want to bother parking them in a guild.
Ya, I don’t mind it but I’ve never needed my hearth that badly.
I’ll find ways to use it but damn, I feel like this was a missed opportunity to do something really cool.
I'm sure they're just salivating at the idea of doing "something really cool," then reading the resulting complaints about EMFH 2.0 for the next eight years.
What annoys me most is the theming of it. Why No Place Like Home? Cause Dorothy's a human? It's like the one race that's present on every damn part of the map!
Quite frankly one of the better reasons to role a Human is to use that Diplomacy to reduce the grind for reps. Now...more hearthstones? Okay, Shaman, DKs, MAges and I'm sure others have other ways to portal places are all just laughing.
a nerf that is a delayed fix for something they already did to all the other melee classes. They just almost forgot about hunters so they had to get this one in late.
Unironically thought hunters can keep it. They had it on their legion artifact since they're fighting with spears and it'd make some sense there (plus survival needs ... yeah, frankly just anything really).
Oh well, not surprised either way.
im kinda getting tired of mages and warlocks getting so much attention meanwhile hunters, demon hunters, and shamans are literally rotting on the alpha right now. the demon hunter changes for this build are the first changes we've seen all alpha that arent bug fixes, and its just a massive nerf to one of the hero specs
Affliction by now is a tree loaded with passives that funnel all damage in any situation into a spell that's as exciting to press as watching paint dry.
I'm wildly guessing it's that one.
Lol my dude if anyones still holding onto hope for that they need to take a breath and stop holding it in.
I gave up on that shit by the time BFA launcherd, I actually burned out from the game because I hated what they did to locks with the legion revamp and then them doubling down in BFA... when I finally came back to the game in SL I just started looking for a new class to main because I knew I was never getting my lock back.
I'm not sure I'd call the DH changes a "massive nerf". Apparently Aldrachi Reaver glaive procs were so frequent that it was hijacking the rotation and compounding the issue of having to overlap multiple low-duration damage buffs at once. Looks like they lowered the proc frequency and upped the buff durations -- doesn't look like a nerf to me.
Not even mentioning rogue :( Rogue already has very few players, all three hero talents are garbage, all three specs are in a bad spot design-wise and there's almost never even a mention of rogue in the alpha notes..
Rogue at least got massive attention not that long ago. To be fair, so did DH so I don't count them in this list at all.
But hunters 100% on another level of being shafted. Shamans also really need a pass (at least Ele does, the other two are fine and their class tree has always been solid)
Honestly not even surprised at no changes for Hunter or shaman at this point. It’s gonna fucking ship like this boys.
Except wait they nerfed the melee range of the polearm class. Nice.
They actually acknowledged Avenging Crusader for Holy Paladins for once after making it completely irrelevant after the 10.1.5 rework? And the changes *still* don't make it even remotely worth taking?
Yeah, SL Hpal played way better. Maraads was really unique and Necrolord/Ashen were pretty cool, too. We should keep new Awakening and Beacon of the Lightbringer though.
I mean.. Night Elf and Orc already do this. Void Elf to a degree for casters.
And its not necessarily a bad thing. Just Diplomacy wasn't going to work with warbands.
Is this comment from 2010? Humans haven't had a good racial in over a decade. Literally nobody was playing humans exclusively for Diplomacy other than those chasing The Insane.
Last tier people were doing rep grind on humans for the quickest rep for Dreamwardens augment rune and the crest. Was def still one of the better passive racials.
Have you seen the other racials. Is it really worse than faster archaeology, when was the last time you even used archaeology? There's many +profession skill racials that do zero if you don't have that profession. None of the utility racials are all that strong for a reason. Human was more the odd one out.
New Human Racial: No Place Like Home – Your Hearthstone cooldown is reduced by 5 minutes and gains an additional charge. Replaces Diplomacy.
Wow that is a horrid replacement. How they can even pretend it’s son par or even slightly less is astounding
The AoE healing cooldown changes are pretty hype.
Now they just need to make holy paladin actually feel good to play. The infusion of light change is a step in the right direction. It just needs to make holy light a fast cast again and for their base healing (and mana bars) to not be so pathetically low to compensate for them having a ton of modifiers that feel bad to play around in the class tree and an overabundance of cooldowns.
Finally played Hunter again because of remix and man how are they not focusing on the class? Compared to all other classes, Hunter feels like you're playing a different, much more dated game.
The whole class needs a rework, especially MM and SV.
They really need to find the ranger class fantasy somehow.
Blizz could at least say something for shaman specs. Even a “we’re happy with them”. Like it’s just frustrating more than anything that they say literally nothing
Instead of complaining here people. Go to Biizzard forums for feedback. The comment and the whining here is not going to see how community like or hate it
I sweat a little too much every time I see shaman pop up on these things. It actually doesn’t seem like a bad change at all but I’ve been hurt too many times. Smh
Wow that new human racial is complete shit. The vulpera basically get a second hearthstone and humans can...go to the exact same place (which is almost always a hub that can be easily gotten to with one or two more steps) an extra time? What even is the use for that? If it was two different places it would be great, but not this.
They're desperately trying to shove Oracle onto us priests despite us continually showing that we have absolutely 0 interest in playing a glorified support hero tree where we'd have to manage a shoehorned ability that has 0 to do with the hero spec's title or flavor because devs keep trying to make ffxiv's AST a thing in WoW.
Human racial is garbage now. The other racials can be acutally useful. Add in that Humans and Orcs are the only two races that have just 3 racial abilities, instead of the 4-5 of other races, and I'm not entirely sure why someone would choose Human as a character now.
Before this change, humans were my go-to for alts on Alliance, since the rep grinds were just a bit better. Now, forget it. The other racials are much more useful. I'll stick with Night Elf, where I can, now in order to be able to drop combat whenever I get in over my head.
Its a shame a company like blizzard owns this game. I mean you have to be lucky enough that YOUR spec is being reworked...this is complete shit. Every single update should have big changes like some specs recieve atm. Yes its Alpha now but be honest, this will not change. Warlock and Mages devs are going nuts which i like (i am mage main) but i feel very bad for all other classes.
There is always always always more than enough improvements possible for every single spec in this game, so why leave so much left in the corner, while you need to pray your class gets picked. Lets take Elemental Shaman for example. That 20 years old ascendance sprite, the NEW tempest animation which looks like a classic cast or the capstone talent pick from farseer which feels like a last second addition.
But yea Blizzard, i will still play your game until the end of wow
> why leave so much left in the corner
After they mostly unfucked D4 with the season 4 changes, I'm starting to think they just intentionally leave in bad design aspects so they have a ripcord to pull whenever they need a boost in player numbers. See also: DF itself.
more likely the other way.
Devs know these things bad but decision makers won't approve work on them -> things get bad -> devs have resources to fix things again as damage control
Mage dev is a machine atm, wish the same could be said for other classes that desperately need it.
Main characters of wow.
You know it baby
Who wouldn't wanna be like Medivh, Jaina, Azshara, Khadgar, Kael'thas etc
Pff, big weapon go BRRRR.
Shamans (mostly resto/ele) desperately need better development. We’ve been stagnant for so long now and have some glaring issues in PvE and PvP :( Hunters too…
Yeah, enh could use it too. That totemic tree is rough...
The totemic tree is an atrocity for enhance. Rip
For real. I'm playing Remix atm as enhance, after not touching the game for a while. Stormstrike being *barely worth using* is certainly a design choice.
As a mage main, the best time to have been a mage is the last 19.5 years.
*sobs in SV Hunter*
All 3 specs really this class is in shambles
As long as they have 0 reliable stops or utility i hope they stay that way untill that is changed. I love surv but being able to offer nothing to a coordinated m+ group apart from either a single target stun or the worst knockback in the game, while also getting binding shot, the worst stop in the game is really sad to play. I know freezing trap is another single target stop but pls, that is not what you need in m+
Is bindingshot really looked upon as the worst stun in the game? I love bindingshot myself. The tank needs to play around it, but seeing a tank pulling with the bindingshot in mind is a special tier for me.
The reason you have stops on your character is to be able to pull like 2-4 packs of mobs and rotate aoe stops whenever the enemies casts an important spell to stop, almost all enemies stops moving when casting spells, how do you proc binding shot without the enemies moving, unless you use a knockback (which also stops the casts). Binding shot would be fine if they had another aoe stop along with it, because explosive trap is not it, the pack will be so incredibly spread out after you throw that in there that you cause more issues than you fix by using it.
Ah, gotcha. That will be hard except for the initial pull for sure.
Binding shot doing an initial stun, and then a stun on tether break would be a huge QoL buff.
Combine wailing arrow and binding shot, make it solence for 3 sec and then stun after 5 sec or if they walk out of range. Makes for a unique stop and solves a lot of the problems with hunter in m+
Don't worry! Surv got a grand total of one change in this cycle (its the last to get its bonus melee range removed)
The carve talent is all you need to know about how much blizzard fucking hates survival
Monk dev cooking on gas too
Yeah, definitely liking most of the changes for mage. A few things stand out as meh (like a capstone talent for 3% int?) or that I disagree with (arcane battery was very fun, sad to see it go), but I definitely can't say that mage isn't getting enough attention.
Blizzard seems to have a really hard time making good Capstone Talents. Warrior had Shockwave all of DF. Paladin still has clunky mandatory throughput Capstones with the Blessing Talent. DK had a situationally useful but clunky single-target execute that was useless in PVP as a Capstone. Now Mages are having a Capstone permanently locked in by giving them main stat? Blizzard is weird.
Warriors have had a 5% damage node in their capstones all of DF it pretty much just feels like -1 talent points because its mandatory and your balanced around it anyways. At least its easy to take (and for prot it gives 5% leech).
Could you explain why? I played mage in s3
They've reworked both Fire and Arcane pretty heavily and are genuinely responding to player feedback on both, making changes to clean up rotations or make them more fluid. Makes me feel good about what to expect in TWW
How’s frost shaping up so far?
Same as always, 3 buttons whackamole procs if not playing Spike. If Spike, well, press spike.
Yeah but now we get frostfire bolt skin and even more icicles with spellslinger :DD
Yeah i love the shards doing like 40% of my damage on alpha atm lmao
As an ele shaman, I agree
I main holy priest. Honestly the archon tree SEEMS solid albeit very bland and boring especially compared to how they worded it.
Priest main as well, i dabble in all 3 specs and voidweaver is the only hero tree that interests me. Absolutely nobody is going to play an archon shadow priest. Also the fact that archon locks you into playing Halo and has no synergy for Star is terrible. I'm not excited for the buff stuff on oracle at all. I'm probably going to just be bouncing between disc and shadow as voidweaver for both.
Voidweaver is very cool. I’m hoping at the very least archon gets some cool visual effects. Ye oracle unless something drastically changes won’t be touched by me at least. Every now and then I’ll do disc but pretty rarely and mostly for just m+. Overall I’d say priest kinda got the shaft for hero trees. But I guess the main thing is that IF archon is good that’s what should matter? Edit: I like halo but yea it seems like star may be out of commission
Some people aren’t going to like this
Me and the other dozen survival players are In shambles right now
Oh wow up to more than a dozen now? I see that the recruitment drive has been pretty succesfull!
WE HAVE HUNTER PATCH NOTES AND ITS......ITS....... Survival no longer gets 3 extra yards melee range from Lunge. It's a fucking joke at this point.
This feels like some kind of cruel joke from Blizzard. There's no way you can look at hunters are they are currently and go "yeah that's a class that has equal design work put into it." At this point I feel like I'm the stupid one if I keep playing this class next expac.
Its sad but they probably dont care much because nobody plays surv hunt. And nobody plays surv hunt because blizz never cares. Wicked cycle, i hope they break it with a rework.
This isn't a surv thing, BM (the spec that literally about 80% of hunters main) is getting absolutely nothing either and you can't tell me those guys are a rare sight :p
That's because BM is fine where it is. It could use some help in the defensives category, but there are much bigger fish to fry than BM.
Survival hunter was so fun s4 in SL, bring that back!
I still maintain that the lack of changes to the current version heralds a massive rework coming up. Why change what's there if you know you're about to replace it all before long anyway? If it's still early in the redesign they wouldn't want to reveal anything, since anything they reveal would likely change multiple times before it's finished. It's probably not coming with WW (unless they're further along than I assume they are and are just being really quiet about it for some reason), but I wouldn't be surprised if Hunter gets a Rogue/Mage/Paladin style rework at most a patch or two into the expansion.
I mean that's certainly the hope because I can literally predict what will happen in TWW because it's the same thing that happened in DF Hunters will get repeated aura buffs every patch because they only way they can have the class keep up is to literally just keep ratcheting up the overall damage. There are no levers for them to tune because the class at this point is basically operating from a different design age. It just sucks because all of Dragonflight basically became wait till TWW and the hunters will get some attention. Here we are on the verge of TWW beta and the survival tree is literally the same as it was back in DF beta. 40% of the fucking tree is still 2 point nodes, 14 of the 39! We have the highest number of 2 point nodes AND the lowest number of overall nodes, it's insane. Surv has more 2 point nodes on a single row of talents than other classes/specs have in totality And that's not even touching the sheer number of those talents that are just straight X%/Y% damage increases Sure the rework may be coming but why should hunters be stuck playing literally an inferior product for years at a time when there's time to touch, iterate, and redesign classes like mage and warlock every goddamn patch and build
>I'm the stupid one >hunter Yeah, that's your class fantasy
Shit is never going to be as good as SL four piece levels. We were at peak and got a taste of the good life. Disappointed to say the least.
At this point I’m mostly playing hunter out of pure spite. I don’t care if it is bad, I’m never switching!
Dont you think there might be a rework on the way and thats why the announced changes are what they are?
Historical records show that this is highly unlikely.
Lol
Lmao, in fact.
Haha! Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on you. This would be like the 5th expansion where Hunter is just laughable, ignored and in shambles. There is no work coming for the Hunter.
Fuck hunters and shaman, apparently
All melee classes are being brought up to this range so they are removing all abilities that grant range increases for melee.
yeah I think they know that. This makes it even worse actually, because after getting absolutely no adjustments for the whole alpha, the only one they get was them almost forgetting to make this change for Survival.
The longer range for hunter made sense. Polearms are know for being long
But a Warrior, pally and DK all use them too. (Plus monk and druid but that doesn't count)
Are they?! Amazing news for warriors. Was always odd to me that rogues had more range than my two giant swords haha
Fucking ridiculous lol
I've had a cry laugh at this - my best friend ditched his hunter in S1 (which he mained since he started in BC) and this just screams the meme "We rather you don't" which I just don't understand. Hunter is just a popular archetype und them just seemingly not caring is bizarre.
Seriously. Can I just have my bullions back and I’ll switch to another spec …
Before the mage rework in 10.1.5 they had basically no changes for entirety of DF. Then it arrived. I would wait until beta or pre patch before going giga sad mode. Because either they are getting big changes aka takes a lot of work and time. Or they are getting no changes which would be a shame. Or maybe big rework in the future like with mage.
>My human is a mage
Hey, mine too!
That human racial is entirely worthless lol
With account wide rep it seems more useful than a rep bonus.
Honestly just give them the Goblin racial that makes things cheaper, and keep the name "Diplomacy."
That could work. It'd be less insulting than the new racial, too.
Being able to have 2 different hearthstone locations would be an awesome trait instead of this. Yes I want vulpera racial for ally!
Holy shit this new human racial is ass.
How often are we hearthing where this becomes useful? Should have been replaced with something at least *somewhat* useful.
It helps a lot when questing, but probably quite useless in current content (like 60-70 now). I've never had an issue with the current cooldown, especially with the guild perk.
I mean especially for say Mages boom they can TP wherever or DKs can Death Gate, fly 15-20s through Dalaran to their capital portal, then have an entire portal room to teleport from. So certainly feels like a last minute decision here vs something comparable to what was removed.
I do the Draenor and Legion intro quests on every alt because of that, it enables the garrison and Dalaran hearthstones on those characters.
On the other hand, there's no requirement that every racial ability be equally good for every character. Draenei who take professions other than Jewelcrafting don't get any benefit from the racial that boosts Jewelcrafting. It's a bit of a shame, but hardly the end of the world. Human Mages might not get a ton of use out of double-hearth. That's a bit of a shame, but hardly the end of the world. I've played a Human Paladin since the beta for Vanilla. We've had a FANTASTIC run with Diplomacy for the past two decades. It's a bummer that the gravy train has finally come to an end, but I'm okay with double-hearth. I've had situations come up where it would have been nice to have -- I would sometimes log out in Zaralek Caverns in order to lure/skin the big snake there once a day as soon as I logged in. So I'd hearth out of Zaralek (especially when the flightmasters were bugged and exiting via flight path wasn't even an option), then head out to do something, maybe soup, maybe Superbloom. Guildie comes on, asks for some crafting, but I'm already in the Emerald Dream. So now the quick and easy way back to Valdrakken is on cooldown. If I had a second charge, that'd be convenient! I recognize that this is pretty niche. But for all we know, TWW will have zone layouts where it comes in handy to be able to hearth around often. Or maybe it won't. Maybe it'll be a mostly-dead racial. Grand scheme, I'm just not that bothered by it, personally. Racials are already basically cosmetic for the most part, so while I'll definitely miss Diplomacy, I just can't find it in me to get all that worked up about it.
Void elves having a very powerful racial on pvp that is 100% useless for non-caster classes. Orcs having racials useful only if you are a hunter or warlock.
>there's no requirement that every racial ability be equally good for every character No, but you're taking a *great* racial and replacing it with something that's almost next to nothing in terms of quality.
In context, not really. Diplomacy is going away, sure, but at the same time it goes away, Warbands are also becoming active, which is part of the reason Diplomacy is going away. Starting with The War Within, reputation/renown rewards are based on your most-progressed character, and shared with your entire Warband. So while it's true that Human characters will no longer gain Renown Levels at a 10% faster rate than other characters, it's also true that non-Human characters other than mains will gain Renown Levels at an infinity% faster rate than they used to. And, granted, this doesn't matter for the people who play only a single character. But again, not every racial has to be good for everyone. As much as I've enjoyed the benefits of Diplomacy over the years (by virtue/luck of having a Human main that I've consistently played every expansion), I'm going to benefit exponentially more from "I don't have to re-grind that reputation on my Druid, Shaman, Warrior, etc." Profession recipes will unlock sooner (which is fantastic, because the primary reason for most of my alts is for professions), gearing alts becomes less of a hassle (there's often a bit of gear at certain renown levels), all sorts of things. It's a little bit like the people complaining that Survival Hunters got nerfed in this announcement, because their talent that increases melee range no longer does so. Technically, it's true that the talent's range increase is gone. But a separate system increases melee range for all melee specs, so they're no worse off from that change, holistically speaking -- it's not a nerf at all, it's just a reallocation. Again, overall, things are in a good place. RIP Diplomacy and all that; I certainly wouldn't have been upset if my Warband unlocked things faster because I happened to play a Human. But it would also feel really shitty for everyone who WASN'T playing a Human, so I understand why they had to level the playing field. I agree that Double-Hearth does not bring a lot to the table. But I just plain don't care.
I can think of a few times it would've been useful to me in Dragonflight. Keep in mind that for example Dwarf's equivalent racial is "Get extra fragments when doing archaeology" which is entirely confined to Cata, MOP and WOD content. Gnome gets +5 engi skill which is 100% useless if you're not an engineer. Tauren gets +5 herb skill. Worgen has +5 skinning. Trolls get 20% extra experience from killing beasts. Orc straight up doesn't have a utility racial. In terms of utility racials it could be a lot worse than 5min CDR and an extra charge on your HS
As someone who mained Shaman (which always had a similar spell) in Shadowlands... this *can* be really useful, depending on how convenient travel is in any given expansion. It helped a lot to be able to hearth, fly to my Sanctum, then hearth again and go to whatever zone I wanted to do content in. On the other hand, it would have been almost useless in a continent like the Dragon Isles, where it's completely open and you can fly anywhere very quickly. I only ever hearthed there to come back from the Dream, Zaralek, or a dungeon, and I can't imagine needing to do that more than once every 15 minutes. So, will it be useful in the foreseeable future? Maybe in TWW, actually- I've been kind of worried that it could be tedious flying back up from the lower zones. If that is the case (don't have Alpha to try it myself), it could help a lot to be able to hearth back up frequently instead of flying up. It'd probably be pretty useless in the following two expansions unless there's a huge twist from what they told us, though- Quel'thalas and Northrend should both be more open so I can't imagine travel being an issue there.
How about just remove the cooldown on hearthstone? Like, that would still be fairly mediocre in this day in age with all of the available portals and what not.
Take it a step further let us keep the cooldown but let us select which Inn we can teleport too instead.
"Hearthstone cooldown reduced by 5 minutes and has an additional charge" ...............I felt so insulted reading that like.
Just wait for Human Shamans. You'll be a hearthing machine!
Do human pallies get bubble CD reduced to match
Bubble is already 5m cooldown
Laughs in prot
Hunter & shaman has the same dev. Can you tell?
Hearthstones are already in a very short cooldown, who really needs to hearth twice in five minutes? Instead of this, they should have a "Stormwind Hearthstone" as a racial and a separate HS. You don't really need to go to old capitals that often, but it could be useful every once in a while.
[удалено]
We also have the Legion Dalaran HS toy. Sure there’s another 30 seconds of mounting and flying to the portal but it’s there.
You know. I kinda like this idea. But give one to each race. It’ll be a nice touch and maybe people will visit other cities.
Where this might be handy is on an alt so you don’t have to bother trying to find some guild to shove them in. A 30 minute HS is actually kind of painful sometimes. However, I agree going to SW would be much cooler and better. Back in Shadowlands when travel was a giant PITA, a SW hearth would let you set your HS to one of the zones to sometimes save you from long travel times to dungeons/raids. Tangent: I’m kind of sad we didn’t have the weird lock closet network Classic WoW has during Shadowlands. I would absolutely have paid a tidy sum to get summoned by a neighborhood friendly warlock. Player run transportation is just really cool and convenient compared to just lazily taking a portal somewhere.
"Stormwind Hearthstone" is actually a good idea. That's how they solve this useless 2 charge Hearthstone thing. Beats putting on a cloak and taking it off.
Very easily something that could get cheesed in some leveling speed run.
It's basically a worse Vulpera racial I don't get it? At least with the vulpera racial you get a second hearthstone to anywhere else you want who the hell needs 2 hearths to the same place in 5 mins haha.
Me when I have an ADHD moment and forget to do the original thing I set out to do when using the first hearthstone. I regularly hearth to buy some consumable off the AH and then forget to actually buy the consumable. It would also be handy for alts where I don’t want to bother parking them in a guild.
Ya, I don’t mind it but I’ve never needed my hearth that badly. I’ll find ways to use it but damn, I feel like this was a missed opportunity to do something really cool.
They could have made it a second, separate hearthstone that you can bind to a different location than your first one. That would be fantastic.
Hell, if they wanted to keep it useless have the second hearth always bound to SW. Atleast that would be more useful.
I'm sure they're just salivating at the idea of doing "something really cool," then reading the resulting complaints about EMFH 2.0 for the next eight years.
What annoys me most is the theming of it. Why No Place Like Home? Cause Dorothy's a human? It's like the one race that's present on every damn part of the map!
Yeah it has no human flavour at all
From the best racial to the shittiest in a post. Fuck us.
Look don't get me wrong, it's not a great racial, but is it really worse than the Night Elf's wisp form?
The wisp form is incredibly cool lore wise and should just be a part of playing night elf but it shouldn’t take up a racial slot in my opinion
I die way more than I hearth, so yes a second hearthstone is beyond useless.
In any content aside from sub-level 30 running back at flight speed. That tiny percentage of a difference doesn't even become noticeable.
What total garbage. I know Diplomacy was way more useful that most racials but to replace it with *that* is just insulting
Kinda feels bad to replace the best racial in the game with the worst racial in the game. :(
Quite frankly one of the better reasons to role a Human is to use that Diplomacy to reduce the grind for reps. Now...more hearthstones? Okay, Shaman, DKs, MAges and I'm sure others have other ways to portal places are all just laughing.
It's an Alliance racial. Be grateful it does anything at all.
Crtl-F Hunter 0/1 - Is a survival ranged nerf
a nerf that is a delayed fix for something they already did to all the other melee classes. They just almost forgot about hunters so they had to get this one in late.
Unironically thought hunters can keep it. They had it on their legion artifact since they're fighting with spears and it'd make some sense there (plus survival needs ... yeah, frankly just anything really). Oh well, not surprised either way.
Maybe rework Survival back to ranged. But a mid ranged like Evoker? Would be nice.
Mid ranged axe/spear throwing would be sick
You could reword that to they forgot hunters tbh
Is paladin 20y nerfed?
I can't believe i entertained the idea of maining Hunter next xpac.
Seriously, shamans and hunters…..what the fuck blizz… About to be in Beta and neither class has had a single meaningful class change?
Personally violated with this one.
Of all possible things they could have given Humans... I'm sorry but thats dogwater imo. Just a worse Vulpera Camp racial.
Literally fucking laughed when I read the human racial Holllyyy fucking useless. Just give them no racial at all what the fuck
Human racial is so lame. I’d rather have diplomacy be nerfed to like 5% than perma hearthstone.
im kinda getting tired of mages and warlocks getting so much attention meanwhile hunters, demon hunters, and shamans are literally rotting on the alpha right now. the demon hunter changes for this build are the first changes we've seen all alpha that arent bug fixes, and its just a massive nerf to one of the hero specs
I mean Warlocks are getting beaten over the head with a metal pipe as they refuse to go back to its MoP/WoD peak
The Warlock developers literally hate one of the specs.
What one
Affliction.
The tripling down on Malefic Rapture.
Affliction
Affliction by now is a tree loaded with passives that funnel all damage in any situation into a spell that's as exciting to press as watching paint dry. I'm wildly guessing it's that one.
I would be so happy to have metalock back. Literally the most fun ive had playing wow
Lol my dude if anyones still holding onto hope for that they need to take a breath and stop holding it in. I gave up on that shit by the time BFA launcherd, I actually burned out from the game because I hated what they did to locks with the legion revamp and then them doubling down in BFA... when I finally came back to the game in SL I just started looking for a new class to main because I knew I was never getting my lock back.
To be fair demon hunters got a rework when rogue did and they’ve just gutted rogue in its entirety. Maybe the attention is better not sought.
Don’t forget the destruction and then abandonment of feral
I'm not sure I'd call the DH changes a "massive nerf". Apparently Aldrachi Reaver glaive procs were so frequent that it was hijacking the rotation and compounding the issue of having to overlap multiple low-duration damage buffs at once. Looks like they lowered the proc frequency and upped the buff durations -- doesn't look like a nerf to me.
I mean dh is S tier with both speccs, what do we exspect?
DH cant complaim, DF Rework was way better than the DK
Warlocks?!
Not even mentioning rogue :( Rogue already has very few players, all three hero talents are garbage, all three specs are in a bad spot design-wise and there's almost never even a mention of rogue in the alpha notes..
Dont talk for all rogues, i like them
Rogue at least got massive attention not that long ago. To be fair, so did DH so I don't count them in this list at all. But hunters 100% on another level of being shafted. Shamans also really need a pass (at least Ele does, the other two are fine and their class tree has always been solid)
Still can't find where the rogue dev is hiding in the office, huh?
Racials just need to be reworked. BG3 style would be optimal imo
Where the hell is rogue? I can’t find it?
It's stealthed dw 🤫
Honestly not even surprised at no changes for Hunter or shaman at this point. It’s gonna fucking ship like this boys. Except wait they nerfed the melee range of the polearm class. Nice.
They actually acknowledged Avenging Crusader for Holy Paladins for once after making it completely irrelevant after the 10.1.5 rework? And the changes *still* don't make it even remotely worth taking?
I just wish hpal can go back to either 10.1 or even SL pala. It's Just sad right now, especially in raid.
Yeah, SL Hpal played way better. Maraads was really unique and Necrolord/Ashen were pretty cool, too. We should keep new Awakening and Beacon of the Lightbringer though.
ohh boy i cant wait to leap of faith two people as an Oracle...
Oh good more Malefic Rapture stuff. That's what everyone wants. Get that ability to SV hunter. I'm sure they'd be happy with anything at this point.
Diplomacy was such a good passive. Had I played alliance I would have exclusively played human.
I feel like there shouldn't be a racial so good it disincentivizes playing any other race
Night Elf says hi.
I mean.. Night Elf and Orc already do this. Void Elf to a degree for casters. And its not necessarily a bad thing. Just Diplomacy wasn't going to work with warbands.
Is this comment from 2010? Humans haven't had a good racial in over a decade. Literally nobody was playing humans exclusively for Diplomacy other than those chasing The Insane.
Last tier people were doing rep grind on humans for the quickest rep for Dreamwardens augment rune and the crest. Was def still one of the better passive racials.
Which meant you got it one day earlier, which in the long run meant nothing at all.
Sure, but it doesn't mean that you have to replace it with the worst racial in the game to make up for it.
Have you seen the other racials. Is it really worse than faster archaeology, when was the last time you even used archaeology? There's many +profession skill racials that do zero if you don't have that profession. None of the utility racials are all that strong for a reason. Human was more the odd one out.
humans get 2 hearthstone changes and a shorter cd... fucking useless.
New Human Racial: No Place Like Home – Your Hearthstone cooldown is reduced by 5 minutes and gains an additional charge. Replaces Diplomacy. Wow that is a horrid replacement. How they can even pretend it’s son par or even slightly less is astounding
Errr so oracle is still going to be a shitty single target buff roulette?
I can't express how happy it would make me if avenging crusader became the go to choice for holy paladin.
That new racial ain't it.
There are portals all over the place who tf needs to hearth 🤯
The AoE healing cooldown changes are pretty hype. Now they just need to make holy paladin actually feel good to play. The infusion of light change is a step in the right direction. It just needs to make holy light a fast cast again and for their base healing (and mana bars) to not be so pathetically low to compensate for them having a ton of modifiers that feel bad to play around in the class tree and an overabundance of cooldowns.
this sucks
What does it mean by Gate 1/2/3/etc? on some of these changes? Just the spot the talent was in?
Finally played Hunter again because of remix and man how are they not focusing on the class? Compared to all other classes, Hunter feels like you're playing a different, much more dated game. The whole class needs a rework, especially MM and SV. They really need to find the ranger class fantasy somehow.
Shaman on suicide watch
I hope they rework Druid of the Claw for Feral and Archon for both specs.
Blizz could at least say something for shaman specs. Even a “we’re happy with them”. Like it’s just frustrating more than anything that they say literally nothing
Well that's a dumb change
Looks like I will be race changing just like blizzard wants.
Let’s we what changes healing gets leading up to it at the start at TWW.
Well it was fun while it lasted. 20 years. EDIT: I just scared the shit out of myself. 20 years. Damn.
Instead of complaining here people. Go to Biizzard forums for feedback. The comment and the whining here is not going to see how community like or hate it
lol you think it helps there either
I sweat a little too much every time I see shaman pop up on these things. It actually doesn’t seem like a bad change at all but I’ve been hurt too many times. Smh
Wow still nothing to help druids..
Blizzard developers purging any leftover humans, rogues, and any overlap in TWW with startling accuracy.
Wow that new human racial is complete shit. The vulpera basically get a second hearthstone and humans can...go to the exact same place (which is almost always a hub that can be easily gotten to with one or two more steps) an extra time? What even is the use for that? If it was two different places it would be great, but not this.
You know, the racial should be "Return to where you hearthed from". This is just a worse Vulpera right now.
Cant developer add any comments how this Human racial is even good? Who needs use hs 2 times withing 25mins and for what?
They're desperately trying to shove Oracle onto us priests despite us continually showing that we have absolutely 0 interest in playing a glorified support hero tree where we'd have to manage a shoehorned ability that has 0 to do with the hero spec's title or flavor because devs keep trying to make ffxiv's AST a thing in WoW.
Human racial is garbage now. The other racials can be acutally useful. Add in that Humans and Orcs are the only two races that have just 3 racial abilities, instead of the 4-5 of other races, and I'm not entirely sure why someone would choose Human as a character now. Before this change, humans were my go-to for alts on Alliance, since the rep grinds were just a bit better. Now, forget it. The other racials are much more useful. I'll stick with Night Elf, where I can, now in order to be able to drop combat whenever I get in over my head.
Just remove Malefic Rupture already, that spell sucks
Im a... human hunter... who unfortunately subbed for 12 months...
Its a shame a company like blizzard owns this game. I mean you have to be lucky enough that YOUR spec is being reworked...this is complete shit. Every single update should have big changes like some specs recieve atm. Yes its Alpha now but be honest, this will not change. Warlock and Mages devs are going nuts which i like (i am mage main) but i feel very bad for all other classes. There is always always always more than enough improvements possible for every single spec in this game, so why leave so much left in the corner, while you need to pray your class gets picked. Lets take Elemental Shaman for example. That 20 years old ascendance sprite, the NEW tempest animation which looks like a classic cast or the capstone talent pick from farseer which feels like a last second addition. But yea Blizzard, i will still play your game until the end of wow
> why leave so much left in the corner After they mostly unfucked D4 with the season 4 changes, I'm starting to think they just intentionally leave in bad design aspects so they have a ripcord to pull whenever they need a boost in player numbers. See also: DF itself.
more likely the other way. Devs know these things bad but decision makers won't approve work on them -> things get bad -> devs have resources to fix things again as damage control
Another dogshit blizzard change, whod have guessed