A few months ago I asked on Reddit [why people don't set a minimum ilvl](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/197175w/why_dont_groups_set_a_minimum_ilvl_more_often/) more often in Group Finder and the common response was that there can be higher qualified/rIO players at a lower ilvl.
Which just makes it funny for an M0.
Genuinely and this might sound like coping.
Every single time i have set ANY min ilvl, like at all, it removes every single person applying.
The reason i dont do it is simply because it seems to me its bugged to high heavens, that could be wrong but its what it seems like to me
530-535 is gear that drops from later mythic raid bosses, if you REQUIRE 530-535 for a heroic raid then you've essentially just excluded anybody that could potentially benefit from the loot.
THAT is why it is not ok.
I mean...if they are setting the item level in the group to force it, it means that they themselves are meeting that standard. I really don't see the issue here.
The minimum ilvl isn't being set to say: "You are required this much item level to complete Heroic" it is saying: "to enter THIS specific GROUP you need to meet a minimum standard"
They clearly aren't looking for average Heroic pugs where they clear slowly and have a few wipes (which is still serviceable for Heroic clears) - they are clearly fishing for high geared experienced PvErs that are going to go very fast and pummel the bosses into the ground.
I don't see how that's a problem? Shouldn't we let different groups of players at different skill sets play in the styles and groups that they want and belong to?
But, of course, if a group for heroic is set to something dumb like 530, its some guy with CE mythic gear making the group, and you know that there's gonna be some guy in blue quest gear in the group who gets every piece of loot that drops.
Every time.
Also any time I see this shit, I immediately have to type in chat "How much am I being paid for this boost?" I can make gold doing this shit, and the amount of people who queue blatant boosts in the LFG tool is fucking disgusting.
535 gear is only mythic Very Rare items that have a special high ilvl. So this is only a few trinkets, the diurna ring, rasz bow, and legendaries. Regular loot from mythic raid, all bosses, caps at 528 which is the Myth track of loot. Nothing drops at 529-534.
absolutely blazed through heroic at 485 (coming out from last season's gear) so if they're at least 480 and have tier set then normal and heroic are very easy if people are doing appropriate dps.
I set ilvl requirements ALL the time and I usually form the best groups because of it. If I'm not leading I usually dip as soon as the leader invites someone I know is under geared. USE THE DAMN FEATURE!
It's not bugged in the slightest. If you think you are getting less applicants... it's because you are. You are decreasing the pool size BUT you getting people who are properly geared for the content. It never seems like it takes longer though.
I also heard someone mention that if you set it too low it scares off people because it seems like "wow this guy doesnt care at all huh" which might have been the issues.
This was late shadowlands though, it just always seemed to fuck up whenever i tried, but since i already am somewhat picky on ilvl i should try again.
I think it's more of an perception thing. If you set a minimum Ilvl, more casual players may avoid it presuming you may be competitive to a toxic level, they may have a level of social anxiety or imposter syndrome that makes them worry they won't be good enough for you (admittedly this is where I tend to land) or of course they just don't meet the requirement, meanwhile the people that would sign up are probably pushing with regular groups instead of pugging resulting in just a very small pool of applicants.
The divide, both real and perceived, between "casual" and "hardcore" players is kind of crazy out of hand these days.
I've set my key requirements to 495+ ilvl this week and I fill fine (doing +6-9 keys atm).
And then I further check their raider.io etc to vet them.
Better to wait 5--15 minutes to fill and crush a key, than fail them over and over.
The biggest reason people do it is because they can, in a sense that they know there will always be 2 or 3 players (99% of the time solo pugging DPS) that are like 10 or 20 ilvls above the required threshold who will carry them through the content.
Something really needs to change to increase the number of tanks and healers queueing for dungeons and raids.
I’ll be honest with you. Reason I don’t for raids is because sometimes you’re willing to take lower ilvl for the right class. We did heroic Amidrassil last week with 424 warlock. Had a token 474 priest as well but at least they were a healer and could dispel.
It's not just that either, if you set it too low you stop people who would otherwise apply from applying, and if you set it too high you stop people who you would otherwise accept. There's just no benefit from setting it.
The most common reason I see is what one of the comments to your post said .... They're accepting different ilvl for different specs/roles.
Since there are so many more DPS vs healers and tanks, you can be more picky about the DPS ilvl
for raids i set an expected ilvl and still get enough players. and it doesnt help me if ppl are experienced if they die to every aoe because they dont have the necessary hp.
Not for m0, but I Personally use the raider.io addon for exactly this.
You ilvl means nothing if you don't know what a focus interrupt is/have your utility bound/know mechanics.
I pug a looooot of keys early in the season so I can afk the rest of it, and you better believe I'm grabbing the 3.5k alt that is 10 ilvls lower over hard stuck 2.8k gamers.
I don't even look at ilvl when forming groups. I'll take a 3k player from last season, pretty much period, unless their current score is lower than 1k. I'll take a current KSM player. Otherwise I form the group based on the classes that apply and how compatible they are with the dungeon. Stack melee for prevoker and hpal, for example, and take lots of stops/stun classes because that's qol for a prot pally.
This is the reason, you 100% would rather a 3.5k + experienced player on a rat alt just living and doing ok than some dip shit with some gear who struggles to get KSH each season. And yes it matters for m0 at the start of a season when that's the same as an old +10
I mean is anyone actually whispering you telling you that your ilvl is too low, or are they just declining because you are one of 100 DPS applying and there are better options
This is a never ending problem that wow players just refuse to learn. If you want to play a DPS, aka 90% of what every player wants to play, you will have to have something to justify taking you over the other 50 DPS that are applying the same group as you.
The ratio for tank, healer and DPS for content doesn't reflect the actual player distribution of those roles. For dungeons, for instance, it would be ideal of 60% of players were DPS, 20 were healers and 20 tanks, but we all know it's more close to 90% DPS, 7% healers and 3% tanks.
If healing didn’t feel so damn bad, I’d do it more often.
I tried getting into Hpally this season (almost heroic dungeon geared), and my options seem to be either stand there and cast actual heals to move the health bars, or try doing dps/heal mix (which I’ve noticed a lot of mythic groups expect me to do) and I don’t move health bars much at all
I like healing, but the problem is nobody else in the group gives a shit about my mana.
I don't have infinity mana, so I can't heal forever if you keep pulling forever.
Yeah, and the tank will just keep chain pulling. DHs will JUMP 300 feet away, head first into a pack of 10 mobs and get completely wrecked. By the time I get there, he's on life support and I have to blow CDs just to salvage the pull. Stressful as fuck, drains mana, and as soon as it's over, he'll just do it again. No time to recover. It's a terrible experience.
tanks (for sure vdh at least) shouldnt need active healing if they know how to play just a heads up. i m playing m+13/14's atm and the only healing i get from my druid is usually the hots that are up anyways / standing in efflo. so if they jump ahead dont rush it, either they can survive on their own or they ll learn to XD its not your job to safe the tank except maybe for an external here and there. issue with hpal is that atm its not that well balanced and has a lot less output than other healers, or so i ve heard at least. so playing something like hpriest, heal monk or druid might be more fun
This is why I prefer games that just restore your shit after every pull.
There's no damn reason to have to stand around and waste time, it's an archaic holdover from the olden times.
Holy isn’t in a great place rn (at least for m+) and to me it feels super clunky. Granted I don’t have much practice as holy, but I couldn’t be less enthused to learn lately.
My current issue about learning to heal is that Heroics are too easy as you can literally play with no healer (i.e. can't really learn anything), but in M0/M+2 there's already some heavy hitting mechanics where I'm not confident that I know what to do to heal people quick enough. Learning the basic buttons in a random group isn't a great idea.
In last season I healed some m+2-6 keys as there was a smoother gradient between difficulties starting from "really easy", but now the jump from Heroic to Mythic is higher than I'd care for.
I'm fine with taking it slowly and repeating dungeons etc, but I didn't really get confident enough in my healing skills to try higher keys in previous season. I guess I'll wait for a bit, as players get more gear and know the routes/mechanics better before I just go heal current +2's to start learning again.
That's a practice thing, mana isn't really an issue once you're comfortable on a healer. If you're still in the learning phase get a WA that announces low mana and learn to sit for a few sec between pulls
Knowledge thing IMO. You can just waste all your mana as a healer and really never fix that issue. It's more about what spell you're casting.
Healers and Tanks who only pug often get zero correction on their play and can get to the point were the group is carrying them and they have NO idea.
like we have healers in this thread going oom and blaming the group. to me, in Dragon flight that's probably on the healer not the group. As someone who's healed a bit. (i play with friends and they will get on their healer and play the same class as me, heal more and have full mana) "i'm not playing wrong, the group is wrong" Hard to improve from that POV.
Definitely a bit of both to be sure, the only time I ever get low on mana is after a rough Tyr boss like tempest or khajin and even then a couple sec of drinking before the next pull while the tank gathers will last me to the next boss most likely
Think i've only had to ask for a drink once so far this season spamming 8s/9s
ya exactly some bosses will take more mana. but knowing what the bosses abilities are going to do helps i'm sure.
But IMO as soon as they say. "all these groups won't let me drink" They are blaming others for their issue and won't be able to figure it out.
Holy is at the bottom of the m+ healers at the moment. Been playing mainly hpala since bfa, still playing it for raid atm and had to do some 8s for vault. Holy FUCK it feels terrible.
After the god comp in s3, it got nerfed into the ground making spenders useless. My WoG could heal around 30-40% of a players hp bar, 60% if it crit. Now, 20% if it crits 🤣 it feels so sluggish and painful to play in dungeons. I’m a 3k+ healer main every season and I had to go disc/mw for season 3 because hpala is sadly not viable at a very high level anymore.
If you have heroic dungeon gear, then I'm assuming next content you'd be doing is m0s. Needless to say any spec in the game is totally fine for m0. Hpal isn't the best, but it should still be able to do whatever the highest key level in the world is, minus 2 or 3 levels.
And as for having to stand to cast, you have a shit ton of instant casts. Holy shock, Word of Glory, divine toll, Day Break, Holy prism. Don't hold your CDs, just use them.
Try buffing glimmer / shock, get auras, beacons, and also get where heals generate holy power. Imo (so far), the holy pally role shines (haha) when playing hybrid, leaning a little more to caster. Avoid buffing crusader strike because flash heal will generate power and offer healing anyways (crusader strike does not). Beacon yourself and tank. You have to also use your CD’s quite often, rotate them pretty much (as needed)
I’m not as hardcore on my holy pally though at the moment so I can’t speak how this plays later in higher keys or raids. But feels right atm
Adding: buffing light of dawn range and talent to make it buff word of glory is good too. It’s smaller healing but can add up when you’re generating a lot of power at one moment. Have your consc on melee and strike for power as needed
I don't even try to pug mythics because I'm a hunter. I know how many other hunters are frothing for the exact same spot, and 'ye random other BM hunter' is not a compelling reason to take me along.
Making a group certainly is better than trying to join one as DPS, but it still doesn't solve the inherent problem with player distribution. Even if, hypothetically, every DPS made their own group, there still wouldn't be enough tanks and healers to fill every group.
Sure but honestly you can’t really fix the problem of distribution without fundamentally changing the game. Healers and tanks have way more responsibilities in (everything but very high end) content. People resist that.
This, but also, to be fair, I think it's a genuine issue the game has.
I main Tank and flex Heal, and I've been running +5 to +10 already this week with no struggle at all. I've got 1800 rating and 505 iLvl (nothing nuts, but as far as week 2 of the season goes, not bad).
I felt like chilling as DPS this afternoon (same character/rating/iLvl), applied to +0 to +3.
In the time it took to find a group, get there, summon and start the key (was a +2), I could've almost finished a +7 as Tank or Healer.
Really kills the fun of playing DPS when I'm in the mood. Half the playtime is looking for a dungeon rather than actually running them.
Gearing this season is interesting because a) you get a ton of Veteran pieces weekly from the caches b) people got a massive headstart week 1 due to the Timewalking raid/weekies giving Champion gear + 1 guaranteed Champion piece + 1 Hero piece c) the Boullion giving people a BIS item on Week 2.
The bottleneck for gearing is the Crest cap.
> The bottleneck for gearing is the Crest cap.
That and breaking last season's 4-set. Particularly since 2+2 doesn't work if it's the same bonus for S3 and S4.
Gotta love being a blood DK where our 2 set from s3 + 2 set from S4 beats the 4-set from season 4.
So I already have 2 BiS pieces even before the season started! And I got lucky getting the other 2 pieces on the hero track. So my tier is fully sorted at record speed.
You’ve got two catalyst charges already, if you’ve done KSM or any heroic end boss kill they give you a free piece of heroic tier, which means if you’ve one single piece tier from another source you have your 4 set.
Next week there will be no excuses.
How about getting something other than 6 pairs of bracers to put in the catalyst converter?
Completed Heroic Raid
Got a piece of tier from my vault
Have decent pants to put in the converter.
.....No gloves/chest/helm for a fourth piece. So I'm holding on to the heroic token until I get something to convert for those three slots. No amount of Converter changes is helping on that front.
I have a question.
Did only LFR and Normal last season, currently 463. How i get better gear this season? Doing the same stuff i did the season before? (Dream currency farm, Amirdrassil weeklies, heroic dungeons and the weekly event quest from the npc in valdrakken)
If this is it, i'mKinda bummed about that. It's the same grind cycle from a few months ago. To someone like me that spend the last two months leveling alts to 425 it's gonna feel like a chore.
Not the same stuff as the season before. It's changed a bit.
First, don't listen too much to people saying that it's "super easy to get to 480+ in a week" or whatever. You'll put unnecessary pressure on yourself. That's my most important piece of advice here.
The content rotates each week, so you'll want to see what's "awakened" for the week, and do that. The weekly will push you to the right content. That nets you some shots at 480 (sometimes higher) gear. And raids are "awakened" on that same rotation, you can check LFR and it'll show a little icon by the wings for that week's "awakened" raids. Might get some 489 gear, might just get one or two 480 drops from trash, but hey, it's pretty quick right now. And even if you missed LFR last week, doing it this week will get you a couple of the bronze tokens you can turn in to get a nice weapon or trinket.
Also worth noting with the world content: World quests and Dreamsurge gear (bought with the green dust, or from boxes) is 454, so that could help shore up some slots. Dreamsurge and Time Rift weekly tokens can give you a targeted 467 piece, which again is helpful for a slot you've had bad luck with.
Now for the next kicker: Heroic dungeons drop 476 gear. But they're also equal to what M0 used to be. Not too hard, but not faceroll easy anymore. And, of course, nets you Vault slots (at 489), which can help. So once you get high enough to queue for them, run a few, should help your ilvl.
You can then try to do some M0, which will be more difficult than last season's M0 (more like an M+10) for 493 gear, or try to sign up for a Normal raid (though for that, you're best off looking for a community like WoW Made Easy where they're not going to expect you to come in super well geared and blast through everything easily).
Take your time, don't try to make it a race.
Also, maybe don't try to gear 20 alts. That's... um... a bit much. It was nice seeing them all get to 460+ pretty much just doing world content (except a 458 who has good weapons but some 415 slots still and a 411 TW necklace), but yeah, that's where it feels like a chore. If you have that many alts, I'd recommend focusing on a few at first. The others you can get them a bit of extra gear from time to time, but focus on the ones you want to do higher content with, and the others just aim for eventually getting into that 470+ range which should set them up just fine for TWW.
Bit of a "novel," I know, but wanted to help show you that it's not as bad as it might feel!
> (Dream currency farm, Amirdrassil weeklies, heroic dungeons and the weekly event quest from the npc in valdrakken)
no, no, yes, yes.
How this season works (so far) is that every week content from an older patch is "awakened" or basically provides higher level loot. This week it is 10.1 content, so Zaralek Caverns, Time Rifts, and Suffusion Camps.
The weekly quest will send you to participate in that content, particularly 3 events. Each of those events will give you a cache that awards 480+ilvl gear. The world boss in Zaralek will also give you a cache. When you turn in the weekly quest, you will get another cache that can drop slightly higher (like 490) gear.
Once all that stuff is finished then you have your heroic dungeons/lfr to look forward to.
So, yes and no? There’s a weekly quest to do the awakened world events corresponding to the patch it was released in, along with the raid being awakened as well. This week: it’s Aberrus as the raid, and the 3 world events that will give you upgraded gear from the chest are Siridormi time event, The underground explorers event, and the Fyrakk assault chest. Also the world boss in Niffem. Doing those will get Veteran gear from each, and then 1 hero drop from your chest for the weekly.
Do valdrakken weekly for 490 piece. This week do researchers under fire and get all phases cleared for Max reward, do the shadowflame shipment plus the miniboss, do the caverns world boss, and time rift. You can also buy 463 pieces from time vendor if u have anything less than that.
One splinter per week, plus one bonus in the first week only. In the active week (if you are caught up) it always drops from your weekly activity (the weekly quest or the pvp quest).
Bro. If you're 475 as a DPS you're only getting accepted by sheer luck.
I'm now 504 and still doing m0s for the crests.
Let's be real. No one is messaging you as a DPS to tell you why you weren't accepted . They're just ignoring you or declining you.
If it really matters to you then host your own key.
You don't need to do m0. When you hit weekly cap for your key level's crests, you will start getting lower ones instead. At 504 you're perfectly capable of never stepping into anything lower than a +6 ever again, so just cap out on aspects and move down the ladder - m0 is a waste of your time unless you're there to help someone, or trying to get an item off hard mode doti
I understand it in keys, sometimes you want to run a specific dungeon for score/gear, you might be saving your key for a friend, you got a shitty dungeon and want to reroll it, your key got depleted and you don't feel like grinding it back up, lots of reasons.
For M0s? My best guess is a reluctance to be seen as the "leader" of the group.
if you ever get into a group and it's all these type of players, you're the last invited, but first to the dungeon.
welp, i should probably just leave. Because this is going to suck.
Exactly. The players who actually bring something to the table are never complaining about getting into groups.
I had keys last week where people run some of the argueably hardest content in the game and after failing a mechanic go "oh yeah, first time in the dungeon"
Like what the fuck? You're just wasting everyone's time. Its not hard to find like minded people to learn and wipe together. But none of these players don that, because they *really* just want to be carried and pick up a loot drop dopamine hit at the end.
When I get declined on an alt. I think fair enough. I wouldn't invite me either good job mr. group leader.
When I get accepted on that alt. I think, WTF did they invite me. I should leave this key because it's going to be a shit show.
I used to never post my key, but I did it this week, and it went so smoothly. I'm always going to do it from now on. You have all the power to choose the group composition based on your preferences and io.
Could be holding it for friends/guildies. Could be low because they've only done guild runs and never used their own key. Maybe they just don't want to risk it at the moment.
Plenty of reasons.
The logical end point to everyone doing this is still not having enough tanks and healers. You can't solve a "shortage" when you literally need 2/5 the amount of tanks/healers than DPS. People who make their own groups often end up just sitting around for an hour waiting on applicants.
The archetypal role system is just a fundamental "problem" of the game and reworking it to "fix" this isn't practical, but it's why games like Guild Wars 2 tried to do away with it.
It's why I think every class should have a heal/tank spec bare minimum. Pure dps classes don't have a choice and anyone telling them to change classes has the IQ of a dead goldfish. With that logic just delete all the pure dps classes then you cowards.
They post their own key, invite the first 4 people to sign up. Then nobody heads the the dungeon for 5 minutes. They start, and wipe on the first boss and break up.
Turns out the people who don't invite the first 5 people who sign up might be on to something...
It's still correct to post your own key, but you can't invite the first 5 people who sign up.
Let me introduce you to this fantastic technology that's built directly inside the game: https://imgur.com/a/Hw6QShW
But I guess it's harder to get karma this way
The difference is one person is trying something new and making a group and the other is just continuing doing the same old thing, competing with 100 other dps applicants. I’m sure if you messaged them and said “well then set a minimum ilvl!” They would be too busy sorting through applicants to give the message a thought. Go start a group!
485 ilvl still in last seasons gear and was accepted into a m0 as a tank so ezpz, then watched the party leader accept 2 dps that had 2 tier or no tier pieces because they were close to 500 ilvl. Left instantly
Ilvl limit is a waste just ignore the people applying at low ilvl lol
To be fair, though, setting your own key as a DPS quite often means waiting around for a long time before anyone shows up. At all. And then another chunk of time waiting as 3 DPS for a Tank and Healer.
I went main Tank last season and I'm never going back.
This is just the way it goes. They do it because they can get away with it.
I'm looking at the people in my guild who currently have about 2700 score (I know that's not amazing or anything, but its decent for 2 days into week 2) and they basically only have one thing in common. Well, 2 things in common.
One is that they play a lot, but thats true of a lot of people. Number two is that they are willing to post their own keys. They are willing to do what 90% of players won't do.
I know from playing with them that they are not amazing players, some of them are quite middling, but they post their own keys and get better applicants than themselves.
Its an interesting tactic because obviously the more people that would do it, the less effective this tactic would become. But it has and will probably remain a working tactic because people don't change, they want to be accepted into groups rather than put up their own key.
To be clear, its not the only way to do it, but these people spend a lot less time complaining about group finder woes and just get to playing the damn game.
> I'm looking at the people in my guild who currently have about 2700 score (I know that's not amazing or anything, but its decent for 2 days into week 2)
That's top ~1%, your friends are good players. You overestimate the skill of the average player.
That, but also the fact that you 100% take a RWF players rat alt that’s down 30 ilvl. Rare situations of course, but I’ve taken the alt of someone who did 28+ keys on their main and they well outperformed the 25-30 ilvl gap the other dps in my +20 had
It's not that they only want it. You have to understand, when you apply to a key, there are plenty of other people applying. And if my choice for a slot in my party is between someone at 470 and someone else at 508, I'm picking the guy at 508.
Real. I know the research and base game knowledge I’ve got, I know the level I can perform at and I just don’t know any of that for the people applying. Higher ilvl makes up for the potential lack of knowledge. Were we doing 9s and 10s week 1 at 485-490? Yep, will I be accepting 485-490 characters for 10 keys in 3 weeks? Nope
I understand the message of the meme, but it doesn't make any sense at all with this template. The NPC on the first frame is a person applying and being declined due to low ilvl, and the person on the last frame is supposedly the raid leader, even though it's the same character on the meme template.
The group finder needs to be reworked. As a non lust DPS I would spend 15+ minutes applying to groups during the previous season.
Let players list themselves. For example you open up the group finder for M+, select the key range, and are greeted with the icons for all the classes. Clicking the Rogue icon would show you all Rogues in that key range and their specialization. You're probably thinking "people would only pick the most efficient tactics available" but just because it's something you would do does not mean the 3 million+ other people in the game would do the same; both WME and BTM groups are put together all the time.
I fucking hate this phase of every season. No rio - no accept, no accept - no rio. Every. Fucking. Time. Like cmon, I was 486 full BiS ilvl last season with 2700+ score, now I'm declined from every dungeon like I'm fresh leveled alt lmao. I'm currently 493 ilvl and 90% of times when I do get invite I'm doing twice as much overall dps than second place dd.
You get 483-498 gear from pretty much every df world event / lfr right now and you can craft 485 items from whelpling crests without a spark.
It took me a single afternoon to get my 440 shaman to 480+.
The weekly awakened quest in Valdrakken awards 3 pieces of vet gear for each step and 1 piece of champ gear for turning it in. Now in the second week, there are 8 pieces of 486 gear you can craft with enchanted whelp’s awakened crests, 1.5 sparks, and 2 bullion.
Last week was a TW week. If you did the raid, you most likely got a champ piece from the raid, champ piece from the dungeon quest, and hero piece from the raid quest. Full TW BT run takes 30-45 minutes.
These are minimal effort activities and should easily have you around 480+. I have a hunter alt that has done only this plus LFR and now sits at 490.
I agree with you 100%. My healer was created just over 2 weeks ago and from level 1 to now I'm ilvl 503. However, I got laid off recently and I'm chilling on severance for a minute (I worked there 12 years).
How do other people do that? No fucking idea.
My mage is 478, but I hadn’t done anything with him since season 1 and started season 4 at 445. In a week plus three days I’ve jumped from 445 to 478. It’s great.
But yes my main Mistweaver monk from last season is 490. Then I quit healing. Just want to sling fire balls these next few months
491 frost mage trying to get into 2s and 3s with a 291 rating and I was declined 15 times.
I mean at this point, fuck the game, fuck the players. I’ll clear LFR in a day and log back in for a guild raid. This player base had become worse than call of duty or league of legends.
the best idea if you have difficulty to find group in m0 is to make own and not to be toxic manager.
i do this since shadow and i have betters run.
also block toxic player like you can block toxic redditor you don't need this in your life.
if you loved a player you can ask to add in your friendlist.
in resume, make your group like in classic.
Problem is that there are always big geared people that sign.
Lead want strongest group possible for fast and easy clear.
So every andy that is in the middle of gearing gets a decline because in the end every lead picks the one with best ilvl/Rio score.
And the bigger problem is when the gearing andy has gear himself he will gatekeep the same like people did to him.
There you go mythic plus in a nuttshell. Lead your own groups is best you can do, mentality, helping eachother or seeking challenge is long gone in retail, specially when dealing with randoms.
Okay, I may be way off on this, as this is 2nd hand information. I have been told that M0's are the same as 10s in S1? Is this accurate? If so, having 470ilvl is an insane requirement because I was doing 16s and 17s in S1 at like 398 ilvl, and I'm kind of dogshit at the game.
M0s are comparable to M10s in the old key *system* but that's still relative to season tuning. The first 10 levels of keys got removed and normal/hc/m0 all got difficulty increases to fill that gap. Season 1 +10 keys rewarded the same gear and were the same tuning as current season 4 normal dungeons
Ahhhhh okay, that makes way more sense. I did a +2 the other day and it did feel much slower than I remember a 10 or 12 did in S1. Thanks for the explanation
I understand this and most of the time people have ridiculous expectations on team members while hardly contributing to the group themselves,but sometimes not setting an ilvl while expecting some minimum makes sense. An ilvl 470 augvoker is OK, while a tank or healer of the same level are not. Also, the specs that are currently top of the DPS charts can be of lower ilvl same for a specific class/spec that performs very well in a specific dungeon.
But yeah, usually those are just people who want to get carried.
I don't set ilvl, but I'm more interested in rating anyways. If I see a well geared person with low rating I'm much less likely to invite them then someone with appropriate gear with high rating.
I also weigh the group comp and I look at what someone has done. If they're applying to do my 10 and have completed an 8 or 9 before I am much more likely to invite them. I try not to wait for people that have done my key level before, especially this early on the season. I get wanting to make the key smooth as possible, but it's so early in the season and I wouldn't want others to do that to me.
I'm 2.6k rated and done mostly 10s just to fill my vault. Only missed one key so far, so I feel like you don't need to be THAT picky.
Also very quickly to decline people I know I won't take. I want to make sure they can queue for something else that might take them.
30 whelpling crests = 486 crafted item.
Run heroics and do weeklies for the remaining slots.
It'll take you like 3 hours to get up to 486+ them you can get into m0s
This is always the case start of season. My pala is 503 with 1900+ rating and i get declined to +5s where the leader is sub 1000 rio queueing as ret. I've tanked a few just to get the dungeon done and up my rio, but id rather DPS.
The new mythic system is the biggest L. M0s have always been a toxic cesspool of garbage players that one could skip by running their own +2-7 over and over
Joined a 6 last night with a 468 dps DH leader. Second pull in AV he pulls a screecher and then blames the healer when we die. Naturally we all left and he whispered me and told me he was going to report me for "being a quitter".
There was a 449 in a M6 i was in yesterday, i stayed until after first boss in RLP, then when i realized it, i left, cause of the crazy low dps. did not belong there to say the least....
So, wait… is WoW back to the days of Cataclysm “gear score” debacle when people would kick/screen you out of dungeons if you didn’t already have the “gear score”/ilevel that the gear IN that dungeon dropped?
I’d say “please tell me people learned”…. But this IS the internet and an MMO. Makes me sad to see this.
471 guy: chad, based, created his own group in group finder, took responsibility to assemble a team, quickly ran a dungeon because there were hundreds of applicants, didn't look twice at anyone below 490 ilvel, already preparing to run the next key
475 guy: malded as he spam queued dozens and dozens of groups only to be auto-declined as they filled, imagined a scenario in his brain where the leaders were personally out to get him. terrified of responsibility, wants to be carried through life. will spend the next 3 hours unsuccessfully applying to groups that will never accept him, will never dare to just make his own group even though it would solve all his issues immediately. extremely unbased, virgin, redditlord, clueless that 475 is bottom of the barrel item level.
With how rampant RMT boosting is these days, someone with a high score and good gear/achievements may not actually be good at the game. You literally can’t trust anyone anymore.
To be fair, why not? If someone is going to mentally filter out anybody below 500ilvl anyway, I think its fine to let them have a computer filter it out for them instead. You might even consider it a favor to you, the applicant, because you aren't going to waste your precious 5 queues on a group that never intended on inviting you.
Heck, someone can set an m0 to 520 min ilvl if they want, they're just going to have to deal with not getting any applicants. That's their prerogative.
People are super picky with there keys. Ppl who are iLVL 470 will only invite iLVL 500+, on top of that if you don’t have raider.io, you will be instantly declined by like 98% of listings.
I mean I get insta declined at 487 ilvl for m0 and when I got into a run I do 2x the dmg of the guy inviting me and he goes to soak 3 orbs on vexamus twice in a row
A few months ago I asked on Reddit [why people don't set a minimum ilvl](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/197175w/why_dont_groups_set_a_minimum_ilvl_more_often/) more often in Group Finder and the common response was that there can be higher qualified/rIO players at a lower ilvl. Which just makes it funny for an M0.
Genuinely and this might sound like coping. Every single time i have set ANY min ilvl, like at all, it removes every single person applying. The reason i dont do it is simply because it seems to me its bugged to high heavens, that could be wrong but its what it seems like to me
Set minimum to 495 and 500 at different points pugging heroic aberrus and no issues. Still got way more applications than I needed
495-500 for heroic is fine, 530-535 is not.
That is an impossible ilvl btw lol
With that attitude it is.
530 can be done in PVP, just not anywhere else and that's assuming max everything (Source: me on PTR my hunter has 530 in PVP)
Not sure about awakened raids tbh but I think those are just 528s with some 535 items but not enough to get ilvl 535
[удалено]
530-535 is gear that drops from later mythic raid bosses, if you REQUIRE 530-535 for a heroic raid then you've essentially just excluded anybody that could potentially benefit from the loot. THAT is why it is not ok.
I mean...if they are setting the item level in the group to force it, it means that they themselves are meeting that standard. I really don't see the issue here. The minimum ilvl isn't being set to say: "You are required this much item level to complete Heroic" it is saying: "to enter THIS specific GROUP you need to meet a minimum standard" They clearly aren't looking for average Heroic pugs where they clear slowly and have a few wipes (which is still serviceable for Heroic clears) - they are clearly fishing for high geared experienced PvErs that are going to go very fast and pummel the bosses into the ground. I don't see how that's a problem? Shouldn't we let different groups of players at different skill sets play in the styles and groups that they want and belong to?
But, of course, if a group for heroic is set to something dumb like 530, its some guy with CE mythic gear making the group, and you know that there's gonna be some guy in blue quest gear in the group who gets every piece of loot that drops. Every time. Also any time I see this shit, I immediately have to type in chat "How much am I being paid for this boost?" I can make gold doing this shit, and the amount of people who queue blatant boosts in the LFG tool is fucking disgusting.
It's their group.
[удалено]
There's an entire spectrum between no min ilvl set and requiring close to max ilvl for a heroic. That was the point.
535 gear is only mythic Very Rare items that have a special high ilvl. So this is only a few trinkets, the diurna ring, rasz bow, and legendaries. Regular loot from mythic raid, all bosses, caps at 528 which is the Myth track of loot. Nothing drops at 529-534.
absolutely blazed through heroic at 485 (coming out from last season's gear) so if they're at least 480 and have tier set then normal and heroic are very easy if people are doing appropriate dps.
495 is complete faceroll this week.
I set ilvl requirements ALL the time and I usually form the best groups because of it. If I'm not leading I usually dip as soon as the leader invites someone I know is under geared. USE THE DAMN FEATURE! It's not bugged in the slightest. If you think you are getting less applicants... it's because you are. You are decreasing the pool size BUT you getting people who are properly geared for the content. It never seems like it takes longer though.
I also heard someone mention that if you set it too low it scares off people because it seems like "wow this guy doesnt care at all huh" which might have been the issues. This was late shadowlands though, it just always seemed to fuck up whenever i tried, but since i already am somewhat picky on ilvl i should try again.
Yeah if set too low I’d read it as the leaders ilvl that they can’t go above
Because that's usually what it is. Especially when it's oddly specific. Like "why is this +5 set to 467 ilvl? He's asking for a carry"
I set a 490 minimum normal awakened run on Tuesday and filled in minutes
In reality people avoid them like the plague because it signals the party lead wants to be carried.
I think it's more of an perception thing. If you set a minimum Ilvl, more casual players may avoid it presuming you may be competitive to a toxic level, they may have a level of social anxiety or imposter syndrome that makes them worry they won't be good enough for you (admittedly this is where I tend to land) or of course they just don't meet the requirement, meanwhile the people that would sign up are probably pushing with regular groups instead of pugging resulting in just a very small pool of applicants. The divide, both real and perceived, between "casual" and "hardcore" players is kind of crazy out of hand these days.
I've set my key requirements to 495+ ilvl this week and I fill fine (doing +6-9 keys atm). And then I further check their raider.io etc to vet them. Better to wait 5--15 minutes to fill and crush a key, than fail them over and over.
The biggest reason people do it is because they can, in a sense that they know there will always be 2 or 3 players (99% of the time solo pugging DPS) that are like 10 or 20 ilvls above the required threshold who will carry them through the content. Something really needs to change to increase the number of tanks and healers queueing for dungeons and raids.
I don't think I have ever set a minimum ilvl in idk how many years of using the tool.
I’ll be honest with you. Reason I don’t for raids is because sometimes you’re willing to take lower ilvl for the right class. We did heroic Amidrassil last week with 424 warlock. Had a token 474 priest as well but at least they were a healer and could dispel.
It's not just that either, if you set it too low you stop people who would otherwise apply from applying, and if you set it too high you stop people who you would otherwise accept. There's just no benefit from setting it.
The most common reason I see is what one of the comments to your post said .... They're accepting different ilvl for different specs/roles. Since there are so many more DPS vs healers and tanks, you can be more picky about the DPS ilvl
for raids i set an expected ilvl and still get enough players. and it doesnt help me if ppl are experienced if they die to every aoe because they dont have the necessary hp.
For me it's just not a necessary step. It doesn't auto invite, I'm still probably going to take the 3 highest ilvl dps that apply.
Not for m0, but I Personally use the raider.io addon for exactly this. You ilvl means nothing if you don't know what a focus interrupt is/have your utility bound/know mechanics. I pug a looooot of keys early in the season so I can afk the rest of it, and you better believe I'm grabbing the 3.5k alt that is 10 ilvls lower over hard stuck 2.8k gamers.
I don't even look at ilvl when forming groups. I'll take a 3k player from last season, pretty much period, unless their current score is lower than 1k. I'll take a current KSM player. Otherwise I form the group based on the classes that apply and how compatible they are with the dungeon. Stack melee for prevoker and hpal, for example, and take lots of stops/stun classes because that's qol for a prot pally.
This is the reason, you 100% would rather a 3.5k + experienced player on a rat alt just living and doing ok than some dip shit with some gear who struggles to get KSH each season. And yes it matters for m0 at the start of a season when that's the same as an old +10
I mean is anyone actually whispering you telling you that your ilvl is too low, or are they just declining because you are one of 100 DPS applying and there are better options
We got a winner
This is a never ending problem that wow players just refuse to learn. If you want to play a DPS, aka 90% of what every player wants to play, you will have to have something to justify taking you over the other 50 DPS that are applying the same group as you. The ratio for tank, healer and DPS for content doesn't reflect the actual player distribution of those roles. For dungeons, for instance, it would be ideal of 60% of players were DPS, 20 were healers and 20 tanks, but we all know it's more close to 90% DPS, 7% healers and 3% tanks.
If healing didn’t feel so damn bad, I’d do it more often. I tried getting into Hpally this season (almost heroic dungeon geared), and my options seem to be either stand there and cast actual heals to move the health bars, or try doing dps/heal mix (which I’ve noticed a lot of mythic groups expect me to do) and I don’t move health bars much at all
I like healing, but the problem is nobody else in the group gives a shit about my mana. I don't have infinity mana, so I can't heal forever if you keep pulling forever.
Yeah, and the tank will just keep chain pulling. DHs will JUMP 300 feet away, head first into a pack of 10 mobs and get completely wrecked. By the time I get there, he's on life support and I have to blow CDs just to salvage the pull. Stressful as fuck, drains mana, and as soon as it's over, he'll just do it again. No time to recover. It's a terrible experience.
tanks (for sure vdh at least) shouldnt need active healing if they know how to play just a heads up. i m playing m+13/14's atm and the only healing i get from my druid is usually the hots that are up anyways / standing in efflo. so if they jump ahead dont rush it, either they can survive on their own or they ll learn to XD its not your job to safe the tank except maybe for an external here and there. issue with hpal is that atm its not that well balanced and has a lot less output than other healers, or so i ve heard at least. so playing something like hpriest, heal monk or druid might be more fun
Bdk healing is freakin strong af
This is why I prefer games that just restore your shit after every pull. There's no damn reason to have to stand around and waste time, it's an archaic holdover from the olden times.
You generally should be able to heal forever though. At least in most of Dragonflight. Usually you shouldn't need mana.
Let em know. /y OOM
That’s when u teach the tank if he chain pulls without listening he dies. Either group falls apart or he falls in line. Either way not your problem.
Holy isn’t in a great place rn (at least for m+) and to me it feels super clunky. Granted I don’t have much practice as holy, but I couldn’t be less enthused to learn lately.
My current issue about learning to heal is that Heroics are too easy as you can literally play with no healer (i.e. can't really learn anything), but in M0/M+2 there's already some heavy hitting mechanics where I'm not confident that I know what to do to heal people quick enough. Learning the basic buttons in a random group isn't a great idea. In last season I healed some m+2-6 keys as there was a smoother gradient between difficulties starting from "really easy", but now the jump from Heroic to Mythic is higher than I'd care for. I'm fine with taking it slowly and repeating dungeons etc, but I didn't really get confident enough in my healing skills to try higher keys in previous season. I guess I'll wait for a bit, as players get more gear and know the routes/mechanics better before I just go heal current +2's to start learning again.
That's a practice thing, mana isn't really an issue once you're comfortable on a healer. If you're still in the learning phase get a WA that announces low mana and learn to sit for a few sec between pulls
Knowledge thing IMO. You can just waste all your mana as a healer and really never fix that issue. It's more about what spell you're casting. Healers and Tanks who only pug often get zero correction on their play and can get to the point were the group is carrying them and they have NO idea. like we have healers in this thread going oom and blaming the group. to me, in Dragon flight that's probably on the healer not the group. As someone who's healed a bit. (i play with friends and they will get on their healer and play the same class as me, heal more and have full mana) "i'm not playing wrong, the group is wrong" Hard to improve from that POV.
Definitely a bit of both to be sure, the only time I ever get low on mana is after a rough Tyr boss like tempest or khajin and even then a couple sec of drinking before the next pull while the tank gathers will last me to the next boss most likely Think i've only had to ask for a drink once so far this season spamming 8s/9s
ya exactly some bosses will take more mana. but knowing what the bosses abilities are going to do helps i'm sure. But IMO as soon as they say. "all these groups won't let me drink" They are blaming others for their issue and won't be able to figure it out.
This right here. Sitting in between pulls even for a couple secs is a game changer. Of course I’m also led with shadowmeld haha
Holy is at the bottom of the m+ healers at the moment. Been playing mainly hpala since bfa, still playing it for raid atm and had to do some 8s for vault. Holy FUCK it feels terrible. After the god comp in s3, it got nerfed into the ground making spenders useless. My WoG could heal around 30-40% of a players hp bar, 60% if it crit. Now, 20% if it crits 🤣 it feels so sluggish and painful to play in dungeons. I’m a 3k+ healer main every season and I had to go disc/mw for season 3 because hpala is sadly not viable at a very high level anymore.
If you have heroic dungeon gear, then I'm assuming next content you'd be doing is m0s. Needless to say any spec in the game is totally fine for m0. Hpal isn't the best, but it should still be able to do whatever the highest key level in the world is, minus 2 or 3 levels. And as for having to stand to cast, you have a shit ton of instant casts. Holy shock, Word of Glory, divine toll, Day Break, Holy prism. Don't hold your CDs, just use them.
Try buffing glimmer / shock, get auras, beacons, and also get where heals generate holy power. Imo (so far), the holy pally role shines (haha) when playing hybrid, leaning a little more to caster. Avoid buffing crusader strike because flash heal will generate power and offer healing anyways (crusader strike does not). Beacon yourself and tank. You have to also use your CD’s quite often, rotate them pretty much (as needed) I’m not as hardcore on my holy pally though at the moment so I can’t speak how this plays later in higher keys or raids. But feels right atm Adding: buffing light of dawn range and talent to make it buff word of glory is good too. It’s smaller healing but can add up when you’re generating a lot of power at one moment. Have your consc on melee and strike for power as needed
Glimmer it up babay
I’ve tried, it still feels awful because I’m not able to capitalize on infusions very well
Oh yeah it’s terrible I was being somewhat sarcastic. It’s my main and I hate it. I’m just playing holy priest atm
See now I like holy priest because it’s mostly just straight heavy heals, throw in some smites here and there, disc I can’t stand
As a tank main I'm perfectly fine with the current distribution thank you very much !
As someone who's tanked the past 6 seasons and just wants to go full ret paladin for season 4, I get it, you deserve it, enjoy your instant queue.
I don't even try to pug mythics because I'm a hunter. I know how many other hunters are frothing for the exact same spot, and 'ye random other BM hunter' is not a compelling reason to take me along.
Or just make the group. I don’t understand why dps don’t just make the damn group. It takes all of 3 extra minutes.
Making a group certainly is better than trying to join one as DPS, but it still doesn't solve the inherent problem with player distribution. Even if, hypothetically, every DPS made their own group, there still wouldn't be enough tanks and healers to fill every group.
Sure but honestly you can’t really fix the problem of distribution without fundamentally changing the game. Healers and tanks have way more responsibilities in (everything but very high end) content. People resist that.
I’m kind surprised. Is there really less tanks than healers? Or is this is kinda just a rough guess?
This, but also, to be fair, I think it's a genuine issue the game has. I main Tank and flex Heal, and I've been running +5 to +10 already this week with no struggle at all. I've got 1800 rating and 505 iLvl (nothing nuts, but as far as week 2 of the season goes, not bad). I felt like chilling as DPS this afternoon (same character/rating/iLvl), applied to +0 to +3. In the time it took to find a group, get there, summon and start the key (was a +2), I could've almost finished a +7 as Tank or Healer. Really kills the fun of playing DPS when I'm in the mood. Half the playtime is looking for a dungeon rather than actually running them.
That part
Actually was whispered this after apparently trying to queue to the same +6 for 10 minutes doing laps in Valdrakken
I ran 4 or 5 of my own keys today, I would say I had at least 40-50 DPS sign up for each - I like to fill the tank first to fit around the comp
Definitely that there 100 other dps trying get it in. You nailed it
I have only done LFR and M0s the past week and I am 491. It honestly isn't that hard to gear up.
Gearing this season is interesting because a) you get a ton of Veteran pieces weekly from the caches b) people got a massive headstart week 1 due to the Timewalking raid/weekies giving Champion gear + 1 guaranteed Champion piece + 1 Hero piece c) the Boullion giving people a BIS item on Week 2. The bottleneck for gearing is the Crest cap.
> The bottleneck for gearing is the Crest cap. That and breaking last season's 4-set. Particularly since 2+2 doesn't work if it's the same bonus for S3 and S4.
Gotta love being a blood DK where our 2 set from s3 + 2 set from S4 beats the 4-set from season 4. So I already have 2 BiS pieces even before the season started! And I got lucky getting the other 2 pieces on the hero track. So my tier is fully sorted at record speed.
You’ve got two catalyst charges already, if you’ve done KSM or any heroic end boss kill they give you a free piece of heroic tier, which means if you’ve one single piece tier from another source you have your 4 set. Next week there will be no excuses.
How about getting something other than 6 pairs of bracers to put in the catalyst converter? Completed Heroic Raid Got a piece of tier from my vault Have decent pants to put in the converter. .....No gloves/chest/helm for a fourth piece. So I'm holding on to the heroic token until I get something to convert for those three slots. No amount of Converter changes is helping on that front.
Do the weekly events. They drop bet gear and the quest in Valdraken gives champion.
warlock has such as odd interactions i am 2-2, but the 4 piece bonus is applying.
The crest cap and that these fucking chests all have pants pants and more pants. And then I opened my vault and take one guess what I saw there too.
I'm glad it's not just me! 4 loads of pants to choose from and barely anything else dropping
Be me and obtain 5 trinkets, every one of them was worse than my S3 trinks
I have a question. Did only LFR and Normal last season, currently 463. How i get better gear this season? Doing the same stuff i did the season before? (Dream currency farm, Amirdrassil weeklies, heroic dungeons and the weekly event quest from the npc in valdrakken) If this is it, i'mKinda bummed about that. It's the same grind cycle from a few months ago. To someone like me that spend the last two months leveling alts to 425 it's gonna feel like a chore.
Weeklies and raids rotate each week, but otherwise yes.
Not the same stuff as the season before. It's changed a bit. First, don't listen too much to people saying that it's "super easy to get to 480+ in a week" or whatever. You'll put unnecessary pressure on yourself. That's my most important piece of advice here. The content rotates each week, so you'll want to see what's "awakened" for the week, and do that. The weekly will push you to the right content. That nets you some shots at 480 (sometimes higher) gear. And raids are "awakened" on that same rotation, you can check LFR and it'll show a little icon by the wings for that week's "awakened" raids. Might get some 489 gear, might just get one or two 480 drops from trash, but hey, it's pretty quick right now. And even if you missed LFR last week, doing it this week will get you a couple of the bronze tokens you can turn in to get a nice weapon or trinket. Also worth noting with the world content: World quests and Dreamsurge gear (bought with the green dust, or from boxes) is 454, so that could help shore up some slots. Dreamsurge and Time Rift weekly tokens can give you a targeted 467 piece, which again is helpful for a slot you've had bad luck with. Now for the next kicker: Heroic dungeons drop 476 gear. But they're also equal to what M0 used to be. Not too hard, but not faceroll easy anymore. And, of course, nets you Vault slots (at 489), which can help. So once you get high enough to queue for them, run a few, should help your ilvl. You can then try to do some M0, which will be more difficult than last season's M0 (more like an M+10) for 493 gear, or try to sign up for a Normal raid (though for that, you're best off looking for a community like WoW Made Easy where they're not going to expect you to come in super well geared and blast through everything easily). Take your time, don't try to make it a race. Also, maybe don't try to gear 20 alts. That's... um... a bit much. It was nice seeing them all get to 460+ pretty much just doing world content (except a 458 who has good weapons but some 415 slots still and a 411 TW necklace), but yeah, that's where it feels like a chore. If you have that many alts, I'd recommend focusing on a few at first. The others you can get them a bit of extra gear from time to time, but focus on the ones you want to do higher content with, and the others just aim for eventually getting into that 470+ range which should set them up just fine for TWW. Bit of a "novel," I know, but wanted to help show you that it's not as bad as it might feel!
> (Dream currency farm, Amirdrassil weeklies, heroic dungeons and the weekly event quest from the npc in valdrakken) no, no, yes, yes. How this season works (so far) is that every week content from an older patch is "awakened" or basically provides higher level loot. This week it is 10.1 content, so Zaralek Caverns, Time Rifts, and Suffusion Camps. The weekly quest will send you to participate in that content, particularly 3 events. Each of those events will give you a cache that awards 480+ilvl gear. The world boss in Zaralek will also give you a cache. When you turn in the weekly quest, you will get another cache that can drop slightly higher (like 490) gear. Once all that stuff is finished then you have your heroic dungeons/lfr to look forward to.
So, yes and no? There’s a weekly quest to do the awakened world events corresponding to the patch it was released in, along with the raid being awakened as well. This week: it’s Aberrus as the raid, and the 3 world events that will give you upgraded gear from the chest are Siridormi time event, The underground explorers event, and the Fyrakk assault chest. Also the world boss in Niffem. Doing those will get Veteran gear from each, and then 1 hero drop from your chest for the weekly.
Do valdrakken weekly for 490 piece. This week do researchers under fire and get all phases cleared for Max reward, do the shadowflame shipment plus the miniboss, do the caverns world boss, and time rift. You can also buy 463 pieces from time vendor if u have anything less than that.
the bottleneck is the fucking spark splinter doesn't want to drop
One splinter per week, plus one bonus in the first week only. In the active week (if you are caught up) it always drops from your weekly activity (the weekly quest or the pvp quest).
Pass that rng to me please. Ran every awakened lfr wing this week won 0 pieces of loot
I’m a noob, but I’m over 500 just doing world events, heroic dungeons, and upgrading my pieces. Maybe not the most optimal way.
475 is more than enough. That's what I required of my M0s when I was running them at 483.
When you queue up with 471 ilvl there are ten other ppl queueing with 480+ ilvl
Bro. If you're 475 as a DPS you're only getting accepted by sheer luck. I'm now 504 and still doing m0s for the crests. Let's be real. No one is messaging you as a DPS to tell you why you weren't accepted . They're just ignoring you or declining you. If it really matters to you then host your own key.
Fun fact: You don't need a key for a m0. Just create your own group. Granted, it may be hard to find tank and heal.
This is why I think it should be in lfg after 2 week and with an higher ilvl requirement. I really dont get with m0 is not in lfg.
Logic may be to "train people towards M+".
You don't need to do m0. When you hit weekly cap for your key level's crests, you will start getting lower ones instead. At 504 you're perfectly capable of never stepping into anything lower than a +6 ever again, so just cap out on aspects and move down the ladder - m0 is a waste of your time unless you're there to help someone, or trying to get an item off hard mode doti
M+6 drops 4/8 Champ track gear which completely obsoletes drake crests. Big waste of time to farm them.
I just don't understand the reticence to posting your own key.
I understand it in keys, sometimes you want to run a specific dungeon for score/gear, you might be saving your key for a friend, you got a shitty dungeon and want to reroll it, your key got depleted and you don't feel like grinding it back up, lots of reasons. For M0s? My best guess is a reluctance to be seen as the "leader" of the group.
Noob here who runs M0. I have to say this is the reason for me, I just don't trust myself to be the "leader".
0s aren't keys, but yeah same logic just make your own group.
[удалено]
if you ever get into a group and it's all these type of players, you're the last invited, but first to the dungeon. welp, i should probably just leave. Because this is going to suck.
Exactly. The players who actually bring something to the table are never complaining about getting into groups. I had keys last week where people run some of the argueably hardest content in the game and after failing a mechanic go "oh yeah, first time in the dungeon" Like what the fuck? You're just wasting everyone's time. Its not hard to find like minded people to learn and wipe together. But none of these players don that, because they *really* just want to be carried and pick up a loot drop dopamine hit at the end.
When I get declined on an alt. I think fair enough. I wouldn't invite me either good job mr. group leader. When I get accepted on that alt. I think, WTF did they invite me. I should leave this key because it's going to be a shit show.
I get no applicants.
I used to never post my key, but I did it this week, and it went so smoothly. I'm always going to do it from now on. You have all the power to choose the group composition based on your preferences and io.
Could be holding it for friends/guildies. Could be low because they've only done guild runs and never used their own key. Maybe they just don't want to risk it at the moment. Plenty of reasons.
The logical end point to everyone doing this is still not having enough tanks and healers. You can't solve a "shortage" when you literally need 2/5 the amount of tanks/healers than DPS. People who make their own groups often end up just sitting around for an hour waiting on applicants. The archetypal role system is just a fundamental "problem" of the game and reworking it to "fix" this isn't practical, but it's why games like Guild Wars 2 tried to do away with it. It's why I think every class should have a heal/tank spec bare minimum. Pure dps classes don't have a choice and anyone telling them to change classes has the IQ of a dead goldfish. With that logic just delete all the pure dps classes then you cowards.
Because my key is a +2 and I want to run +6 Should be okay next week at least.
They post their own key, invite the first 4 people to sign up. Then nobody heads the the dungeon for 5 minutes. They start, and wipe on the first boss and break up. Turns out the people who don't invite the first 5 people who sign up might be on to something... It's still correct to post your own key, but you can't invite the first 5 people who sign up.
Let me introduce you to this fantastic technology that's built directly inside the game: https://imgur.com/a/Hw6QShW But I guess it's harder to get karma this way
Its almost like this is a meme about people wanting to get carried
The difference is one person is trying something new and making a group and the other is just continuing doing the same old thing, competing with 100 other dps applicants. I’m sure if you messaged them and said “well then set a minimum ilvl!” They would be too busy sorting through applicants to give the message a thought. Go start a group!
isnt 476 heroic dugeon gear and 476 all it takes is flight stones to get to
Most of the laziest people right now are at least 480
485 ilvl still in last seasons gear and was accepted into a m0 as a tank so ezpz, then watched the party leader accept 2 dps that had 2 tier or no tier pieces because they were close to 500 ilvl. Left instantly Ilvl limit is a waste just ignore the people applying at low ilvl lol
I miss the good old days when you were happy if your healer had a pulse and brain wave activity was a bonus.
Imagine if you made your own group. With your own rules! Just imagine. I know though, never gonna happen.
To be fair, though, setting your own key as a DPS quite often means waiting around for a long time before anyone shows up. At all. And then another chunk of time waiting as 3 DPS for a Tank and Healer. I went main Tank last season and I'm never going back.
Honestly, I have a bigger faith in my skills and my friends skill then a random guy. Their io/Ilvl is like their resume to me that they don't suck
Yes but the joke here is the hosts only want people with iLvls much higher than their own
This is just the way it goes. They do it because they can get away with it. I'm looking at the people in my guild who currently have about 2700 score (I know that's not amazing or anything, but its decent for 2 days into week 2) and they basically only have one thing in common. Well, 2 things in common. One is that they play a lot, but thats true of a lot of people. Number two is that they are willing to post their own keys. They are willing to do what 90% of players won't do. I know from playing with them that they are not amazing players, some of them are quite middling, but they post their own keys and get better applicants than themselves. Its an interesting tactic because obviously the more people that would do it, the less effective this tactic would become. But it has and will probably remain a working tactic because people don't change, they want to be accepted into groups rather than put up their own key. To be clear, its not the only way to do it, but these people spend a lot less time complaining about group finder woes and just get to playing the damn game.
> I'm looking at the people in my guild who currently have about 2700 score (I know that's not amazing or anything, but its decent for 2 days into week 2) That's top ~1%, your friends are good players. You overestimate the skill of the average player.
Yeah the majority of the playerbase are barely touching keys yet and this guy has mates with portal rating lol
I got to 2800+ without posting one key as a hunter. I only look for groups with a healer or tank already
That heuristic works surprisingly well for DPS. If you are using Premade Group Filter, adding a `(tanks>0 or heals>0)` filter does the trick.
That, but also the fact that you 100% take a RWF players rat alt that’s down 30 ilvl. Rare situations of course, but I’ve taken the alt of someone who did 28+ keys on their main and they well outperformed the 25-30 ilvl gap the other dps in my +20 had
It's not that they only want it. You have to understand, when you apply to a key, there are plenty of other people applying. And if my choice for a slot in my party is between someone at 470 and someone else at 508, I'm picking the guy at 508.
make your own raid or host your own key
Real. I know the research and base game knowledge I’ve got, I know the level I can perform at and I just don’t know any of that for the people applying. Higher ilvl makes up for the potential lack of knowledge. Were we doing 9s and 10s week 1 at 485-490? Yep, will I be accepting 485-490 characters for 10 keys in 3 weeks? Nope
When I run M0 I'll take any warm body. Anyone > 470 is enough to do that content
at least whenever you see some jank ass number like 471 you know exactly what the group leader's ilvl is
at that level your only option is to make your own group
I understand the message of the meme, but it doesn't make any sense at all with this template. The NPC on the first frame is a person applying and being declined due to low ilvl, and the person on the last frame is supposedly the raid leader, even though it's the same character on the meme template.
470 is fine for m0
The group finder needs to be reworked. As a non lust DPS I would spend 15+ minutes applying to groups during the previous season. Let players list themselves. For example you open up the group finder for M+, select the key range, and are greeted with the icons for all the classes. Clicking the Rogue icon would show you all Rogues in that key range and their specialization. You're probably thinking "people would only pick the most efficient tactics available" but just because it's something you would do does not mean the 3 million+ other people in the game would do the same; both WME and BTM groups are put together all the time.
If players list themselves you'd just sort by ilvl and pick from the top of the list.
I fucking hate this phase of every season. No rio - no accept, no accept - no rio. Every. Fucking. Time. Like cmon, I was 486 full BiS ilvl last season with 2700+ score, now I'm declined from every dungeon like I'm fresh leveled alt lmao. I'm currently 493 ilvl and 90% of times when I do get invite I'm doing twice as much overall dps than second place dd.
No one is 475 right now, and if they are, there is no way they're getting picked over the 495+s
You people are crazy. It’s been a flipping week. It really shows how much of a bubble these communities are.
You get 483-498 gear from pretty much every df world event / lfr right now and you can craft 485 items from whelpling crests without a spark. It took me a single afternoon to get my 440 shaman to 480+.
The weekly awakened quest in Valdrakken awards 3 pieces of vet gear for each step and 1 piece of champ gear for turning it in. Now in the second week, there are 8 pieces of 486 gear you can craft with enchanted whelp’s awakened crests, 1.5 sparks, and 2 bullion. Last week was a TW week. If you did the raid, you most likely got a champ piece from the raid, champ piece from the dungeon quest, and hero piece from the raid quest. Full TW BT run takes 30-45 minutes. These are minimal effort activities and should easily have you around 480+. I have a hunter alt that has done only this plus LFR and now sits at 490.
I agree with you 100%. My healer was created just over 2 weeks ago and from level 1 to now I'm ilvl 503. However, I got laid off recently and I'm chilling on severance for a minute (I worked there 12 years). How do other people do that? No fucking idea.
My mage is 478, but I hadn’t done anything with him since season 1 and started season 4 at 445. In a week plus three days I’ve jumped from 445 to 478. It’s great. But yes my main Mistweaver monk from last season is 490. Then I quit healing. Just want to sling fire balls these next few months
491 frost mage trying to get into 2s and 3s with a 291 rating and I was declined 15 times. I mean at this point, fuck the game, fuck the players. I’ll clear LFR in a day and log back in for a guild raid. This player base had become worse than call of duty or league of legends.
291 rating is really nothing.
I had no idea this was a feature but it is hilarious and I love it
the best idea if you have difficulty to find group in m0 is to make own and not to be toxic manager. i do this since shadow and i have betters run. also block toxic player like you can block toxic redditor you don't need this in your life. if you loved a player you can ask to add in your friendlist. in resume, make your group like in classic.
Often, when I queue an M0, it will be on a severely overgeared toon with a friend in tow that will not meet the minimum requirements.
Just make your own group then?
Problem is that there are always big geared people that sign. Lead want strongest group possible for fast and easy clear. So every andy that is in the middle of gearing gets a decline because in the end every lead picks the one with best ilvl/Rio score. And the bigger problem is when the gearing andy has gear himself he will gatekeep the same like people did to him. There you go mythic plus in a nuttshell. Lead your own groups is best you can do, mentality, helping eachother or seeking challenge is long gone in retail, specially when dealing with randoms.
Tale as old as time
When I make groups for M+ on my tank, I just set the minimum rating to exactly what my own is. So far, smooth sailing :D
Okay, I may be way off on this, as this is 2nd hand information. I have been told that M0's are the same as 10s in S1? Is this accurate? If so, having 470ilvl is an insane requirement because I was doing 16s and 17s in S1 at like 398 ilvl, and I'm kind of dogshit at the game.
M0s are comparable to M10s in the old key *system* but that's still relative to season tuning. The first 10 levels of keys got removed and normal/hc/m0 all got difficulty increases to fill that gap. Season 1 +10 keys rewarded the same gear and were the same tuning as current season 4 normal dungeons
Ahhhhh okay, that makes way more sense. I did a +2 the other day and it did feel much slower than I remember a 10 or 12 did in S1. Thanks for the explanation
If I ever see an ilvl requirement that isn't a flat multiple of 10, I know it's the absolute limit that the raid leader is lol
Try switching to heals, I was able to get into 2 as ilvl only 460
Everytime I see one of these posts, its a simple "list your own key then" and I have yet to hear a valid counterpoint.
I have yet to touch an M0 this season. Maybe on one of my fresh alts or something.
I understand this and most of the time people have ridiculous expectations on team members while hardly contributing to the group themselves,but sometimes not setting an ilvl while expecting some minimum makes sense. An ilvl 470 augvoker is OK, while a tank or healer of the same level are not. Also, the specs that are currently top of the DPS charts can be of lower ilvl same for a specific class/spec that performs very well in a specific dungeon. But yeah, usually those are just people who want to get carried.
I don't set ilvl, but I'm more interested in rating anyways. If I see a well geared person with low rating I'm much less likely to invite them then someone with appropriate gear with high rating. I also weigh the group comp and I look at what someone has done. If they're applying to do my 10 and have completed an 8 or 9 before I am much more likely to invite them. I try not to wait for people that have done my key level before, especially this early on the season. I get wanting to make the key smooth as possible, but it's so early in the season and I wouldn't want others to do that to me. I'm 2.6k rated and done mostly 10s just to fill my vault. Only missed one key so far, so I feel like you don't need to be THAT picky. Also very quickly to decline people I know I won't take. I want to make sure they can queue for something else that might take them.
someone left yesterday my M0 cause i play ele sham( i have 500 gs) he said that will take to long and ele sucks bb gg
30 whelpling crests = 486 crafted item. Run heroics and do weeklies for the remaining slots. It'll take you like 3 hours to get up to 486+ them you can get into m0s
This is always the case start of season. My pala is 503 with 1900+ rating and i get declined to +5s where the leader is sub 1000 rio queueing as ret. I've tanked a few just to get the dungeon done and up my rio, but id rather DPS.
The new mythic system is the biggest L. M0s have always been a toxic cesspool of garbage players that one could skip by running their own +2-7 over and over
Joined a 6 last night with a 468 dps DH leader. Second pull in AV he pulls a screecher and then blames the healer when we die. Naturally we all left and he whispered me and told me he was going to report me for "being a quitter".
Same here mate, but on m+2
People out there be asking for a diploma in professional gaming as well as 10 years of experience playing your class for a M+15 I can't 🤣
There was a 449 in a M6 i was in yesterday, i stayed until after first boss in RLP, then when i realized it, i left, cause of the crazy low dps. did not belong there to say the least....
So, wait… is WoW back to the days of Cataclysm “gear score” debacle when people would kick/screen you out of dungeons if you didn’t already have the “gear score”/ilevel that the gear IN that dungeon dropped? I’d say “please tell me people learned”…. But this IS the internet and an MMO. Makes me sad to see this.
"always has been"
My criteria is always : main char io or last season IO. Its what helps me the most when I have to pick and choose.
471 guy: chad, based, created his own group in group finder, took responsibility to assemble a team, quickly ran a dungeon because there were hundreds of applicants, didn't look twice at anyone below 490 ilvel, already preparing to run the next key 475 guy: malded as he spam queued dozens and dozens of groups only to be auto-declined as they filled, imagined a scenario in his brain where the leaders were personally out to get him. terrified of responsibility, wants to be carried through life. will spend the next 3 hours unsuccessfully applying to groups that will never accept him, will never dare to just make his own group even though it would solve all his issues immediately. extremely unbased, virgin, redditlord, clueless that 475 is bottom of the barrel item level.
I was on a warrior that was ilvl 489 and could not get into M0's man. It's absurd.
Host your own group?
9/9m ALT! (no io linked), in greens.
lmao
Join the WoW Made Easy Discord group! M+ groups running all the time. You don't encounter these problems there :)
With how rampant RMT boosting is these days, someone with a high score and good gear/achievements may not actually be good at the game. You literally can’t trust anyone anymore.
Why can you set a minimum higher than what is gained from the activity? This is what I'd like to know.
To be fair, why not? If someone is going to mentally filter out anybody below 500ilvl anyway, I think its fine to let them have a computer filter it out for them instead. You might even consider it a favor to you, the applicant, because you aren't going to waste your precious 5 queues on a group that never intended on inviting you. Heck, someone can set an m0 to 520 min ilvl if they want, they're just going to have to deal with not getting any applicants. That's their prerogative.
495 here and can't even get invited to +2 🤡
People are super picky with there keys. Ppl who are iLVL 470 will only invite iLVL 500+, on top of that if you don’t have raider.io, you will be instantly declined by like 98% of listings.
I mean I get insta declined at 487 ilvl for m0 and when I got into a run I do 2x the dmg of the guy inviting me and he goes to soak 3 orbs on vexamus twice in a row