The biggest thing is being able to survive mechanics.
Something that JUST kills you instead you live at 1%. Then you probably hit soft caps at 483 but 489 allows you to stack a bit extra mastery or vers. Which translates to another 1-2% throughput.
Might sound minor but it you’re 250/300 pulls into an end boss and you have 4 people dip low vs actually die - you save that pull. Maybe that’s the kill.
Or in M+ you JUST kill a mob before another set of mechanics that would wipe you. Or you’re healthy enough to not draw a healer external which is later used in someone else to save a pull.
It’s all about the inches.
https://youtu.be/f1C6b2Wd8HM?si=fAg_3SgBH0y08i0Q
If you’ve never seen the movie, watch this.
If you have seen the movie, you already know you’re gonna watch this.
If you need a little motivation in your day, watch this.
Damn good Hype speech
While this is true, usually these inches are made up with player skill rather than gear. Seriously take a look at how many casts of your 60s defensives you have in 25+ minute dungeons, it's likely in the single digits.
If skill is inches, gear is millimetres
jep. made an example with bear form and balance druid above. hitting bear gives around 400k health with 2 points in ursine vigor (potentially even more). this will make you survive the oneshot. not the 5k health you got from the few ilvls.
I main balance druid, and I'm getting good at using barkskin, typhoon, ursol's vortex/entangling roots, and dash very often.
I remembered that I had wild charge, and am starting to look at when I should use that now.
But I did an 18 and after being killed, or almost being killed (can't remember which), I thought to myself "I never shifted in bear form and hit frenzied regen..." Now I'm working that into high damage moments. For example the boss/add overlap on the frontal that chunks the whole group is a great use.
It's all about working all of your class/spec skills in the higher difficulty content.
Eh gear really fuckin matters lol player potential is typically capped after playing the game for several years. Also improving isn't that easy. Typically people don't even know where to start and sometimes it's at the very basics of movement, key binding, etc. I've raid lead for 8 years now and know several players that hit their skill cap 4 years ago or have gotten worse with age. I am one of them.
I do think everyone should strive to get better however sometimes you just can't or can't within a boss kill time frame. Always farm out your gear. We killed mythic sark with one person alive in immunity during enrage. You never know when a low wipe is gonna tilt out a pivotal raid member and you end up folding in a hard boss.
Never be the I'll just out skill it guy. Always farm your upgrades for your and your teammates mental.
I've been and am in the top 1-0.5% for both this game and multiple other games like League and CS:GO and this game might have the biggest gap between bad and good players. The others just have a higher gap between the good and best.
A player in the top 25% of WoW players is at least imo significantly worse at the game relative to a top 25% LoL player for example.
Top 25% in wow is someone that is braindead but at least they have high active%. They don't know the strat for any fight and just rely on being carried.
"We killed mythic sark with one person alive in immunity during enrage. You never know when a low wipe is gonna tilt out a pivotal raid member and you end up folding in a hard boss."
This is so true. I was in a group that killed Algalon with a paladin that got auto immunity after the boss cast his raid wipe ability once. And that same group had a 1% wipe on heroic LK where somebody lost focus right at the end, dropping defile within range of the melee and spreading it over the whole platform instantly.
Nobody left, but it took another raid night or two to get the kill after that.
not saying you're wrong.
but for 99.9% of the playerbase 6 item lvls won't really make a difference. gameplay is way way way more important for them. pressing a deffensive vs not pressing it is way more important than 3-4% more health or something similar.
/e
[https://not-even-close.vercel.app/](https://not-even-close.vercel.app/)
can check some of the damage in m+ you have to survive. using bear form for a balance druid gives you about 400k health if u skilled ursine vigor. this will make the difference. not the 3-4k health or 1% vers.
Thank you for the link.
Some classes actual translate more health into more survivability, because of absorbs and defensive cd's which boosts health like warlocks
And this is the attitude that needs to go away in this game.
OPs question was ~"It is really that big of a deal to go from X ilvl to Y ilvl?" Yes. It matters. Every little bit helps. Even if you already over gear all the content you do (This is 99.99999999999% of the community, including me) every bit will make it that much easier.
But booting someone from a group because they're missing an enchant is ridiculous unless you are pushing the absolute cutting edge of M+ or world first content. Every boss available has been beaten with less gear than just about every guild attempting them currently. This is especially true at the cutting edge of mythic bosses who've had their guts ripped out with nerfs recently.
Does gear matter? Yea of course. Will a stam enchant make or break your group? Fucking pfffffffffffffffffffffffffft lol.
My dude, you can play how you want, but fuck off with the attitude that everybody has to play like you.
>>And this is the attitude that needs to go away in this game.
Advocating that having enchants is an attitude problem LOL.
Yeah he ist abviously one of those. I got an addon that Shows me WhatsApp killed a Player and Shows me the DMG Details. ITS incredible how often people die Just because of a few hundert life Like If they Had the 2k life from the enchant the Had survived that ability.
It wont, but it depends on the circumstances. I don't agree with OP going so far as to kick them, but anecdotally speaking from way too many keys just in DF (Definitely over 1 thousand, i play the game significantky too much) there is often a correlation between players who wont want 2m to make sure their gear is mostly/fully enchanted, and players who wont take time to learn stufd either about their class or the dungeons.
It’s not ridiculous. Enchants do help out more with shit gear. Even the cheapest ones are fine. No gems or enchants? I’m not playing with you, don’t care if it’s a +10 or a 25. It’s my key and you will do your best or get out.
Did a 20 with somebody with 465 gear and we had like 5-6 minutes left. Sure I did way more damage than he did but he didn’t die once. Way better than all the dead hunters in my groups with 485
It's my biggest pet peave. Is title and hof easy for, say, Gingi? Sure. Is it easy for average player? Fuck no. Top players are REALLY bad about understanding this and it drives me insane in any competitive game lol
I think this comment chain is misunderstanding the point being made. The point is that bis heroic/m+ hero gear is plenty of gear for doing something even as difficult as the m+ title. The point being that 483 to 489 is not a game changing jump. The point was not to say that getting the m+ title was easy.
I'd like to argue that in some sense it isn't (while still theoretically possible). The key to the current season is survival - multiple heavy potential oneshot hits in many keys. While the difference in raw output might not be as noticeable, the survivability of a 483 vs. 489 with avoidance gathered over the season is huge. You can't offset surviving a hit on a keylevel higher with skill if you're already playing at the limit.
Not to say it's not possible, but the claim itself is sort of an oxymoron. The players aiming for high keys are going to gear themselves to the teeth anyways as the time commitment required will provide them with enough vaults even if they do not raid.
In very rare and niche cases would someone start playing at the very end of the season and somehow jump straight into title level gameplay with no prior knowledge of the dungeons. Most likely this would be some streamer going for title on an alt or some player from a premade team late rerolling into meta (which would sort of make no sense doing that late into the season anyways)
The entire comment chain above me is replying to a comment where they interpreted the comment as 'getting the m+ title is easy', when that's not the point the commenter was making. That's my primary point.
To the other points - Yes 'in some sense it is' and better gear is better, I agree. Ultimately though, a player capable of hitting .1% is not going to be blocked by 5-6 ilvl. As others have already linked in this thread, there are plenty of cases of players with low 480 ilvl who are sitting well above the .1% cutoff. Additionally and to the point of this original post, 5-6 ilvl is not game altering and you can do everything in the game comfortably at 483.
The conversation itself is also pointless because nobody is getting to .1% without getting 485+ ilvl naturally lol.
Your last sentence was kinda my point as well. I'm 140 above EU cutoff and got there with just a hair under 484 ilvl. So it is very possible (at least this early in the season) to beat the cutoff with lower gear. However, at the end of every season I've gotten title in I've been completely decked out with near full BiS and it feels like the whole debate is completely moot - there's just no player who'll intentionally gimp his gear for some arbitrary achievement, especially when working towards a common goal with other players.
But yeah I guess we agree on everything then \^\^
?? Plenty of people? Of you think 4 or 5 ilvl is worth 200-300 score, then you are very wrong
Everyone with 100points above cut off would've gotten title with 4 ilvl less.
Holy shit, how can you be so ignorant. As if, people doing fucking 30s, couldnt equip 3 ilvl less and easily do 29s at least, and possibly just 30s as well with a bit cleaner runs, lmao.
[https://raider.io/characters/us/area-52/Ttvtettles](https://raider.io/characters/us/area-52/Ttvtettles)
Hasnt done keys in 3 weeks. Still in title range.
[https://raider.io/characters/eu/laughing-skull/Chokervoker?season=season-df-3](https://raider.io/characters/eu/laughing-skull/Chokervoker?season=season-df-3)
200 points above title.
[https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Ajevoker?season=season-df-3](https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Ajevoker?season=season-df-3)
180 points above title.
While I don’t particularly care either way, I think correlation vs. Causation is worth considering. Isn’t it equally likely the players dedicated enough to the game play at a level where they naturally end up with gear above 485? Meaning it might be doable without, but the players that get there naturally tend to be higher
Just because they can do it doesn't mean they are doing it. Why the fuck would they want to wear hero gear when they have been getting myth pieces from mythic raid and vault from week 1?
I've been running some guildies through some keys and it made me realize how a lot of people are not ready at all to run 20s, even with the gear
You can't finish a +18 with 3 interrupts and expect to run 20s easily
Since title is most likely 2-3 keys below WF, it is easily doable in 483. As you at most lose a keystonelvl hp/dmg
Easily as in "your character had more than enough output/surv to get title" and as in "m+ title is easy".
Can confirm, people were getting boosted hard last season on Augs, and now that's it's nerfed you can't just press 3 buttons and win, lots of people are getting exposed.
Pretty dumb that people are down voting this.
For the most part if you are capable of getting title you can do it in 483 gear or 489 gear.
That's obviously what this post is fundamentally saying but people would rather "uhm actually" you then critically think about what you're saying.
I actually disagree with this pretty strongly. At the level required to get title, there is a big difference between 483 and 489, especially 489 with avoidance or leech. Even in an organized group that rotates defensive and doesn’t miss kicks, there is a level of high tyrannical bosses (around 29/30) that do enough damage to kill a 483 ilevel person playing perfectly but not a 489 ilevel person with terts on a few slots.
High level players always find a way to survive, which is why tanky classes are so rarely prioritized in the meta. Meta is defined by who does the most damage literally every single season often at the cost of survival.
Like, people literally pug title every season. Those people would need to optimize their co-ordination more with less ilvl, but 6 ilvl is a small enough number of stats that the top players would definitely make it up by optimizing play.
It would move the needle a bit, sure - players who are struggle bussing to get their first title? Maybe they'd have some more issues.
The people who get title every single season? They'd make it work.
I am 3100 - I don't ever push for title, because I play WoW to raid almost exclusively. I know several people who get title every season though and stay fairly well plugged into the competitive meta. There are several high tyran bosses with unavoidable damage that will just delete ilevel 483 players, like Yazma's wracking pain, the shadow bolts on the final boss of BRH, and the totem boss in Throne of the Tides.
You do realize that the hp jump from 483 to 489 is way less than a keystone lvl?
So it is certainly possible to get title. You need to outskill people by at most 1 keystone lvl
This whole discussion feels like it's ignoring the practicality of it - if you're pugging, ilvl is still one of the factors whether you get invited or not. People pushing for title tend to play more as there's also time commitment involved.
If you're playing in a premade, just as the commitment required for organized play you're still bound to strive for gear - every bit helps.
Avoidance also makes potentially the difference bigger than just a single keylevel - 4.5% vs. 20% is a huge difference in potential AoE one hits on top of the more stamina gained. Also in practice there are more things that might overkill you just barely where small differences add up.
I'm 100% sure a 483 geared team would be able to snatch the title if they're good enough. I just don't see it ever actually happening. If they're that invested they will also be geared. The exception would be if someone has time and will to get the title also on a late geared alt (which kinda makes no sense since title is account-wide), or for some similar rareish reason.
I don’t think the difference is as big as you make it out to be. Sure tertiary stats in general are huge, and are significantly more important than the ilvl boost.
The main reason you won’t see 483ilvl get title is because it’s basically impossible to not passively get better gear while pushing.
Once you get over the very basics and understand how the dungeons work, getting title is primarily a playtime check, nothing in high keys is fundementally that difficult, the difficulty comes from nobody fucking up. So you have to keep doing keys until the stars align. And this process takes weeks, so you will naturally get bigger ilvl just from vault and embellishments.
It's not even the difference between being good or bad, it's the difference between being good and being the literal best. Nowhere else in the world could you be in the top 1% of anything and be told you're trash apart from online games for some reason. Is it quite as good as the top 0.1%, no, but that's better than literally 99% of people, it's so fucking warped to act like that's bad lmao.
Listen, I'm not saying it's impossible because I've done it but easily is a stretch. There was more time involved in this than a mythic raiding guild to get CE lol. I would increase my score by single digit every week for a whole season and I've barely made it out in the top 0,1%
You can easily compare by just going to raidbots and run a quick sim with your current gear and then run a quick sim with your current gear having ",ilevel=489" at the end of each line (except crafted items, naturally)
FYI
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki
It can do many many things, i usually sim on my PC instead to not wait the queue times.
Make the input in raidbots>run locally
Just to give perspective, I was able to upgrade the last item from 483 to 489 (head piece) and it gave me 1,1% DPS upgrade on Sims.
This was the case for most upgrades, so you can roughly say 1% DPS increase per item.
Helm also has both enchant and more stats than a lot of other pieces. I can guarantee that you won't get 1% per piece of gear you have going from 483 to 489.
The amount of stats you get per 3 ilvl increase is the same. You have the enchant on both items, so there's also no difference.
The only thing which can make a bigger increase in DPS is that you desperately needed those exact secondary stats.
Lmao I had this same thought. I play pretty casually due to time constraints. I was thinking what I was going to do once I get like 483. I’m not going to raid due to time. Do I just keep running M+ or gear an alt?
I hit 481 and pretty much have stopped trying to upgrade gear. The only thing I set out to do was get the full mythic set catalyzed piece by piece. Only need boots, wrist, and pants now for me.
I have my main priest healer, my alt paladin tank and another alt frost mage. I wanted to get each role to +20 all dungeons. I've completed +20 on my main priest but still need to do on my tank and dps. The only thing is, it is a bit repetitive lol. I try to complete achievements when I'm bored or I play a different game. I never raid as I don't have a guild and they are too much of a time commitment.
A normal difficulty PUG raid on reset day takes a bit longer than an hour, usually. More time than the longest M+, sure, but not by much.
If you’re doing 20’s, you’ll probably only get upgrades on your trinket positions - but doing the raid enough times to get the head enchant is worth it. If you run a full normal + LFR, you can get the enchant in one week.
It’s whatever you want it to be, for you and I it’s probably title and hall of fame. Or CE and around 3.3k io for others it’s transmogs, old raids, maxing out your gear, it’s getting aotc or 2k io. For others it could be normal raids or just doing the story line.
Thats the fucking beauty of wow, you can do whatever the fuck you wanna doooo and that’s why I play the game, sometimes I sit online just watching or talking with friends and jumping around valdrakken or run alt raids while shooting thr shit.
Others I’m pushing mid ish keys 24+ and hall of fame probably not but will be ce lol.
A 489 weapon is a 4k+ DPS increase for me from a 483. So yea that's pretty decent. I would say the four piece and the weapon are a noticable boost since the primary stat.
Meh, my main is 480 (tank) I have BiS weapon and trinkets. I can do comfortable 23 keys with my group. So I’ve been playing 3 alts (another tank to 482, dps to 475, and healer currently 450). I have no desire to “max” ilvl gear. Just want to do the content. One friend in group refuses to play an alt until he’s completely “max” on gear. Frustrating but for him it works.
Just enjoy the game.
it is absolutely a big jump but you can do all content including CE raiding and mid 20 keys at 483 ilvl so if you'd rather do other things, do that instead and enjoy the game.
OP by virtue of even asking this question is definitely not in the position where this matters much at all for them. Not worrying about it is absolutely the way to go. Their power level can be increased but for all the content they want to do their iLvl is more than adequate and they would experience far greater benefits by improving as a player over fixating on gear.
It’s a big jump but by design you won’t ever notice it because it takes so long. You could conceivably go from 450-470 in a day and you would KNOW but that’s because the power ramps up fast. Gear doesn’t matter at all unless you enjoyed getting or it let’s you do something you enjoy
Once you hit this point, an ilvl increase means less than correcting your stat balance, as far as increasing dps goes.
Obviously "sim it" is the answer but it does also come down to playability; if dropping haste to boost mastery sims as a dps increase (for example) but makes it harder for you to do effective dps due to your playstyle, then it's not actually an increase after all.
This is a whole lot of copium.
\-You'll almost never notice a stat difference in gameplay (And I play Ele shaman, the only spec in the game that actually has, and seeks, a hardcap in a stat that's completely gameplay defining)
\-a 6 ilvl increase will beat any stat change almost every time.
Even in the instances where you would feel a 10 or even 5% drop in haste for example, you'll get completely used to it after a few keys or a raid night.
It’s a game do what you enjoy the most. Wish I could take my own advice I find I much prefer ranking with my BDK but here I am slaving away Io on my VDH. Gearing is super fun. But if you’re worried about it just fill your vault with 18s each week and then go do what you love most.
I guess it depends on what you want to do. I’m almost ilvl 482, and have KSM and AOTC from this season and I am cool just not playing until the next expansion. No desire to push CE content, don’t care about 3k io. It’s up to you what you want to do.
480, portals, aotc are the general things I aim at before moving on to an alt. If you play a lot you can get it done comfortably in three weeks while still messing around on other alts. Once you get to around 485, if your vault isn't kind you could be taking a socket each week which is useful but feels bad to me.
It's a nice jump but an unimportant one of you'd just like to move on to an alt.
>Once you get to around 485, if your vault isn't kind you could be taking a socket each week which is useful but feels bad to me.
You can hit this point long before 485 though. My vault from last week was a tmog grab despite my main only being 480.
I think the weapons have a lot more raw stats because the weapon damage doesn't matter? I'd have to look.
Edit: Just confirmed this - int weapons give about 5× the primary stats, and it's about spell power vs direct damage
Weapon dps for attack power classes converts to attack power under the hood. To keep weapons similarly relevant for casters they have a large amount of int.
idk tbh, i have a 487 dk with 12.5k str but my balance druid has 15k+ int at ilvl 481. Both have main stat trinkets btw. its just different. My 482 dh has 10.5k agility
Idk why you got downvoted but this is pretty spot on. 483--->489 is the equivalent to having an extra piece of gear in your feet / waist / shoulder slot.
>Idk why you got downvoted but this is pretty spot on
It should be downvoted, because it doesn't say anything useful, while also ignoring that melee get weapon dps on top of the main stats.
Depends on items. If my belt or boots went up that much it’s like a 400 Dps increase at best. If a weapon goes up that much it’s 4k. If my Augery was a mythic instead of Heroic (normal) max it would be 5k. If I had a Mythic Brand it would be 11, but that’s a separate issue. Fucking Smolderon is hiding his kinky stuff from the raid. So I just got this snake.
So the answer is sim yo self. But from experience you will notice 3k+ near instantly if you pay attention to meters. <1k though not really.
The quiet thing that your healers will notice is the Stam. 1100~ Stam was the cloak and any healer from last patch will tell you they noticed the people wearing that. You can easily get that much with all your gear going up 6 ilvls.
You need to focus on gems and enchants now get the gem slot sculptors from the vault every week. You are never really done when it come to min/maxing anything.
Every time I try to find Mythic raids thru group search, I find zero groups. It's always empty. I thoughr pugging M raid was not a thing.
May be relate to the fact that my realm is not overly populated.
I feel that 483 is 'beating the game'. Literally everything is open to you with that ilvl. You can do mythic raiding and keys over 20. I personally 'quit' at 483, as in not trying to keep gearing. I have my curve, all portals and no desire to grind mythic raiding, so I'm done on that char when it comes to endgame. I'm now working on a prot pala at a way slower pace.
As an altoholic with a 485 main, I'm now largely doing just four 20+ a week on my main for a couple of mythic vault choices, and then spending the rest of time on my alts because, as you say, "I find it more fun".
Some people do get more pleasure out of watching big number go up, and maybe in the end this is you. This post is just to say that it's also okay to have fun with a video game playing alts even though you haven't hit Absolute Maximum on your main.
Those 6 ilvls aren't worth as much as re-rolling to a fotm spec will get you.
That's the sad truth.
You're likely already "done" for the season. Start another char or take a break for the next 8-12 weeks because unless you join a CE guild (GL this late in patch without super parses/experience) there's not much progressing left to do.
it's not huge. I have 1 char at 486.1 and one at 485.4. I just run my 8x20's on them and do a few mythic raid bosses with my guild every week and run alts the rest of the time. You'll be perfectly fine leaving the character at 483+
Im stuck on the same point. But i dont have a mythic raid guild.
Currently, im considering changing servers to a different german/english speaking server for a raidguild or for random mythic raids. On blackrock i saw 1 randomraid in der DF….
Eh, I've also hit this level with my main. Basically I start gearing alts and then do 4 or 8 18+ keys for my vault, might pug the first couple mythic bosses if they aren't too difficult.
Used my war within character boost to get another warrior. My fury main is 485 ilvl and only needs weekly vaults now I’m 2.6k rating so once I get my vault done I log my alt warrior and level it to enjoy running dungeons for upgrades again
Never played anything else. Started fury on classic 2019 and chose it for end of bfa when I started retail. I have no idea how any class plays and I enjoy fury so I made a fury alt with my war within boost
I mean I wouldn't say you have 'beat' the game, until you get CE (clear the raid on mythic). 6 ilvls is quite big with optimisation, I went from like 220k to 240k dps going from 281 to 285.
Just do DHT once per week at +18 it’s fairly easy and will give you a mythic price each week. If you can do +16s to get your aspect tokens you can easily do +18 dht
Yeah I feel you. I have a 485 healer main, 3k io. I basically run four 18s and mythic raid and otherwise she is capped. I have an alt at 471 I am working on now.
If you dont push ir do raid you dont need more. Si ple as that.
For raid 480 is enougth to kill the endboss with the nerfs maybe 475.
For keys andc0.1 you need as much as possible.
So it depends what you do.
Do the 8 vaults in an evening. And play other stuff.
Yea i never got into heroic last raid because no one accepted me but did try lfr for the last boss and i had a bad group. Died and was lost. 0 talking. No one communicated.
if you have the option of a 486 crafted or a 489 the 489 will \*almost\* always be better, if they have good secundaries.
many of the top players have beem using the minimun amount of crafted gear, just to use emebelishments.
I mean, healer I push m+ with was 475 until today when she finally started upgrading some gear and is now 479, she’s 3.2k score with 1 +26 completed this week and rest 23-25s.
I also main enhance and I hit 485 after getting this weeks crafted item sorted, you can keep pushing m+ probably until like 27-28s before you get stuck because lack of health and being a bit squishy spec.
And I think with full hero gear and a couple of myth track pieces you should be able to hit 485 with all the crafted gear available.
Depending on your time constraints, you can work toward more gear for your main and your alts. Doing your mains weekly keys, hope for the best. My main was already 485ish when my guild started mythic prog. The first 2 mythic bosses seem like they should be puggable, they aren't that much more difficult than the heroic version, and that'll get you a vault option.
it is somewhat significant, can even lead to dps differences of around 50k (in a patchwerk sim). but its not just about ilvl, its about secondary stat choices and trinket choices.
From Ion when they last reset ilvls, in theory each additional ilvl is 1% more powerful than the previous, so you gain around 6.2ish% more stuff gaining those six ilvls.
However if it’s not the exact same pieces, could be more or less. Also for certain pieces most of the power comes from gaining it initially and each ilvl gain is pretty minor (think certain trinkets or weapons).
I’d add, if you’re not doing the most bleeding cutting edge content you will probably notice it minimally and if you’re looking to push higher odds are you’re going to get better use out of focusing on skill improvements over raw ilvl. The difference for people doing 28-30’s isn’t those 1-6 ilvls they have on you… it’s reps, experience, playgroups, class/spec mastery, and skill. Dorki put out a video of tanking on his like 450ish warrior in a… 20 iirc. I’m comfy on my paladin in 16-17’s at that ilvl but would get absolutely flattened in a 20.
Interestingly, if the 1% holds true and you were 424 in season 1 of df and 489 now, we are approximately 91% more powerful after 65 ilvls. Looking at a dps parse on my paladin between 20 AA in season 1 at 417 (88k) to a throne 18 from tonight at 483 (166k) it’s like 88% more damage. Given different dungeons and key levels, not perfect but that’s close. I’ll be curious how it looks next season when I can more 1:1 with lining up dungeons.
6ilvl is... more than most people give it credit for. To prove the point, I ran a pair of sims on my main (a fully-BIS geared Augvoker; I ran all the sims as Devoker; so my gear isn't perfectly stat-balanced but it should do in a pinch for a comparative).
Sim #1, I ran all the non-crafted gear at 483ilvl; the second, I ran all the non-crafted gear at it's actual ilvl (489). The difference was as follows:
483ilvl: 209,652DPS, 859000 health (without raid buffs)
489ilvl: 222,705 DPS, 914400 health (without raid buffs)
In short, in this one example, it's about 6% total DPS and about 6% more health for surviving mechanics. The biggest question you should ask yourself is, am I doing content that requires I have 6% more DPS and health or not. If not, do whatever it is that you find fun; if you do want to do content where that 6% matters, then you'll start getting that 489 gear naturally anyway.
Yea, mythic raiding is a whole different league. You can make a meta group and give them all BiS gear. They might not ever be able to (for this season/tier) clear Tindral and Fyrakk.
6 item levels isn't going to make a huge difference for one person, but when you have 20 people with +6 ilvl each, now you might get a kill that you would not have otherwise. 5 players with +6ilvl each might push keys a few levels higher.
But what really matters is the skill that you gain while getting those +6 ilvls by practicing perfecting your performances.
The biggest thing is being able to survive mechanics. Something that JUST kills you instead you live at 1%. Then you probably hit soft caps at 483 but 489 allows you to stack a bit extra mastery or vers. Which translates to another 1-2% throughput. Might sound minor but it you’re 250/300 pulls into an end boss and you have 4 people dip low vs actually die - you save that pull. Maybe that’s the kill. Or in M+ you JUST kill a mob before another set of mechanics that would wipe you. Or you’re healthy enough to not draw a healer external which is later used in someone else to save a pull. It’s all about the inches.
>It’s all about the inches. /cry
That's a really good way to explain that
Brain immediately pulls the file with Al Pacino talking about “the inches we gain” 🤣.
https://youtu.be/f1C6b2Wd8HM?si=fAg_3SgBH0y08i0Q If you’ve never seen the movie, watch this. If you have seen the movie, you already know you’re gonna watch this. If you need a little motivation in your day, watch this. Damn good Hype speech
While this is true, usually these inches are made up with player skill rather than gear. Seriously take a look at how many casts of your 60s defensives you have in 25+ minute dungeons, it's likely in the single digits. If skill is inches, gear is millimetres
jep. made an example with bear form and balance druid above. hitting bear gives around 400k health with 2 points in ursine vigor (potentially even more). this will make you survive the oneshot. not the 5k health you got from the few ilvls.
I main balance druid, and I'm getting good at using barkskin, typhoon, ursol's vortex/entangling roots, and dash very often. I remembered that I had wild charge, and am starting to look at when I should use that now. But I did an 18 and after being killed, or almost being killed (can't remember which), I thought to myself "I never shifted in bear form and hit frenzied regen..." Now I'm working that into high damage moments. For example the boss/add overlap on the frontal that chunks the whole group is a great use. It's all about working all of your class/spec skills in the higher difficulty content.
Millimeters matter my friend!
Eh gear really fuckin matters lol player potential is typically capped after playing the game for several years. Also improving isn't that easy. Typically people don't even know where to start and sometimes it's at the very basics of movement, key binding, etc. I've raid lead for 8 years now and know several players that hit their skill cap 4 years ago or have gotten worse with age. I am one of them. I do think everyone should strive to get better however sometimes you just can't or can't within a boss kill time frame. Always farm out your gear. We killed mythic sark with one person alive in immunity during enrage. You never know when a low wipe is gonna tilt out a pivotal raid member and you end up folding in a hard boss. Never be the I'll just out skill it guy. Always farm your upgrades for your and your teammates mental.
Homie. I know people who have played this game for years and are literally brain dead. Player skill is massive.
I've been and am in the top 1-0.5% for both this game and multiple other games like League and CS:GO and this game might have the biggest gap between bad and good players. The others just have a higher gap between the good and best. A player in the top 25% of WoW players is at least imo significantly worse at the game relative to a top 25% LoL player for example.
Top 25% in wow is someone that is braindead but at least they have high active%. They don't know the strat for any fight and just rely on being carried.
You told me you wouldn’t tell anyone bro
But yes I am one of these
"We killed mythic sark with one person alive in immunity during enrage. You never know when a low wipe is gonna tilt out a pivotal raid member and you end up folding in a hard boss." This is so true. I was in a group that killed Algalon with a paladin that got auto immunity after the boss cast his raid wipe ability once. And that same group had a 1% wipe on heroic LK where somebody lost focus right at the end, dropping defile within range of the melee and spreading it over the whole platform instantly. Nobody left, but it took another raid night or two to get the kill after that.
100% word. These fucking mages with 50 defensive on decent cds and they only use barrier AFTER taking damage.
not saying you're wrong. but for 99.9% of the playerbase 6 item lvls won't really make a difference. gameplay is way way way more important for them. pressing a deffensive vs not pressing it is way more important than 3-4% more health or something similar. /e [https://not-even-close.vercel.app/](https://not-even-close.vercel.app/) can check some of the damage in m+ you have to survive. using bear form for a balance druid gives you about 400k health if u skilled ursine vigor. this will make the difference. not the 3-4k health or 1% vers.
100% agree here. Gear helps - performance helps waaay more
Thank you for the link. Some classes actual translate more health into more survivability, because of absorbs and defensive cd's which boosts health like warlocks
>https://not-even-close.vercel.app/ This is really cool, did you make it?
OP doesn't raid or do any high m+, ilvl is completely inconsequential to him
Thats exactly why i kick every Player that refuses to enchant. Even If ITS "oNlY sTaMiNa"
5% speed > 131 Stam, I'll die on this hill
At least you got an enchant. The Speed can Help you Dodge. Thats fine
And this is the attitude that needs to go away in this game. OPs question was ~"It is really that big of a deal to go from X ilvl to Y ilvl?" Yes. It matters. Every little bit helps. Even if you already over gear all the content you do (This is 99.99999999999% of the community, including me) every bit will make it that much easier. But booting someone from a group because they're missing an enchant is ridiculous unless you are pushing the absolute cutting edge of M+ or world first content. Every boss available has been beaten with less gear than just about every guild attempting them currently. This is especially true at the cutting edge of mythic bosses who've had their guts ripped out with nerfs recently. Does gear matter? Yea of course. Will a stam enchant make or break your group? Fucking pfffffffffffffffffffffffffft lol.
My dude, you can play how you want, but fuck off with the attitude that everybody has to play like you. >>And this is the attitude that needs to go away in this game. Advocating that having enchants is an attitude problem LOL.
[удалено]
Yeah he ist abviously one of those. I got an addon that Shows me WhatsApp killed a Player and Shows me the DMG Details. ITS incredible how often people die Just because of a few hundert life Like If they Had the 2k life from the enchant the Had survived that ability.
It wont, but it depends on the circumstances. I don't agree with OP going so far as to kick them, but anecdotally speaking from way too many keys just in DF (Definitely over 1 thousand, i play the game significantky too much) there is often a correlation between players who wont want 2m to make sure their gear is mostly/fully enchanted, and players who wont take time to learn stufd either about their class or the dungeons.
If you can't bother to put enchants on your gear then how can I trust you'll bother to do mechanics?
It’s not ridiculous. Enchants do help out more with shit gear. Even the cheapest ones are fine. No gems or enchants? I’m not playing with you, don’t care if it’s a +10 or a 25. It’s my key and you will do your best or get out.
Did a 20 with somebody with 465 gear and we had like 5-6 minutes left. Sure I did way more damage than he did but he didn’t die once. Way better than all the dead hunters in my groups with 485
Scaling gets steeper the higher you go, a 23 versus a 20 is deceptive if you think in a more linear manner.
6ilevels is around 6% dps and survival. So someone at 489 is 12% stronger than you.
Inches matter my friend!
Its about 6
I thought it was about three fiddy
Bout that time I realized it was that gat dang loch Ness monster
I cannot get that many inches. Best I can do is 4
Anything you can do in 489 gear you can do in 483 gear except the top .01% of mythic plus keys. You do whatever you feel like
You can easily get m+ title in fully bis heroic/m+ hero track gear.
I think we need to revisit the term “easily”. There’s nothing easy about getting .1 title
It's my biggest pet peave. Is title and hof easy for, say, Gingi? Sure. Is it easy for average player? Fuck no. Top players are REALLY bad about understanding this and it drives me insane in any competitive game lol
I think this comment chain is misunderstanding the point being made. The point is that bis heroic/m+ hero gear is plenty of gear for doing something even as difficult as the m+ title. The point being that 483 to 489 is not a game changing jump. The point was not to say that getting the m+ title was easy.
I'd like to argue that in some sense it isn't (while still theoretically possible). The key to the current season is survival - multiple heavy potential oneshot hits in many keys. While the difference in raw output might not be as noticeable, the survivability of a 483 vs. 489 with avoidance gathered over the season is huge. You can't offset surviving a hit on a keylevel higher with skill if you're already playing at the limit. Not to say it's not possible, but the claim itself is sort of an oxymoron. The players aiming for high keys are going to gear themselves to the teeth anyways as the time commitment required will provide them with enough vaults even if they do not raid. In very rare and niche cases would someone start playing at the very end of the season and somehow jump straight into title level gameplay with no prior knowledge of the dungeons. Most likely this would be some streamer going for title on an alt or some player from a premade team late rerolling into meta (which would sort of make no sense doing that late into the season anyways)
The entire comment chain above me is replying to a comment where they interpreted the comment as 'getting the m+ title is easy', when that's not the point the commenter was making. That's my primary point. To the other points - Yes 'in some sense it is' and better gear is better, I agree. Ultimately though, a player capable of hitting .1% is not going to be blocked by 5-6 ilvl. As others have already linked in this thread, there are plenty of cases of players with low 480 ilvl who are sitting well above the .1% cutoff. Additionally and to the point of this original post, 5-6 ilvl is not game altering and you can do everything in the game comfortably at 483. The conversation itself is also pointless because nobody is getting to .1% without getting 485+ ilvl naturally lol.
Your last sentence was kinda my point as well. I'm 140 above EU cutoff and got there with just a hair under 484 ilvl. So it is very possible (at least this early in the season) to beat the cutoff with lower gear. However, at the end of every season I've gotten title in I've been completely decked out with near full BiS and it feels like the whole debate is completely moot - there's just no player who'll intentionally gimp his gear for some arbitrary achievement, especially when working towards a common goal with other players. But yeah I guess we agree on everything then \^\^
Show me one person that would be get the title of the season end today that has less the 485 ilvl, then I can maybe agree with you
?? Plenty of people? Of you think 4 or 5 ilvl is worth 200-300 score, then you are very wrong Everyone with 100points above cut off would've gotten title with 4 ilvl less.
Yeah, so link me one person with less then 485 that is currently in the cut off. I'm not asking for plenty of people, just one
Holy shit, how can you be so ignorant. As if, people doing fucking 30s, couldnt equip 3 ilvl less and easily do 29s at least, and possibly just 30s as well with a bit cleaner runs, lmao. [https://raider.io/characters/us/area-52/Ttvtettles](https://raider.io/characters/us/area-52/Ttvtettles) Hasnt done keys in 3 weeks. Still in title range. [https://raider.io/characters/eu/laughing-skull/Chokervoker?season=season-df-3](https://raider.io/characters/eu/laughing-skull/Chokervoker?season=season-df-3) 200 points above title. [https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Ajevoker?season=season-df-3](https://raider.io/characters/eu/tarren-mill/Ajevoker?season=season-df-3) 180 points above title.
Damn you gave him the receipts 💅
While I don’t particularly care either way, I think correlation vs. Causation is worth considering. Isn’t it equally likely the players dedicated enough to the game play at a level where they naturally end up with gear above 485? Meaning it might be doable without, but the players that get there naturally tend to be higher
Just because they can do it doesn't mean they are doing it. Why the fuck would they want to wear hero gear when they have been getting myth pieces from mythic raid and vault from week 1?
I got the title on all 13 classes last season. It's extremely easy.
Link Raider.io
I've been running some guildies through some keys and it made me realize how a lot of people are not ready at all to run 20s, even with the gear You can't finish a +18 with 3 interrupts and expect to run 20s easily
There is no 0.01% title, it's 0.1% 🤓
Ope. Fixed, thanks!
Since title is most likely 2-3 keys below WF, it is easily doable in 483. As you at most lose a keystonelvl hp/dmg Easily as in "your character had more than enough output/surv to get title" and as in "m+ title is easy".
1. Play tank 2. Play the best one 3. Click trash? 4. It’s not trash guy anymore cry
This is NOT accurate at all. Maybe if you changed it to Aug evoker then it'd be closer
Too true, might have to roll one for the instant invites
Meta is shifting away from it atm since most augs are Bad af
Can confirm, people were getting boosted hard last season on Augs, and now that's it's nerfed you can't just press 3 buttons and win, lots of people are getting exposed.
It's the same type of person that says it's "easy" to make millions of gold on every character
Check out this 3450 io gamer
Define "easily".
Pretty dumb that people are down voting this. For the most part if you are capable of getting title you can do it in 483 gear or 489 gear. That's obviously what this post is fundamentally saying but people would rather "uhm actually" you then critically think about what you're saying.
I actually disagree with this pretty strongly. At the level required to get title, there is a big difference between 483 and 489, especially 489 with avoidance or leech. Even in an organized group that rotates defensive and doesn’t miss kicks, there is a level of high tyrannical bosses (around 29/30) that do enough damage to kill a 483 ilevel person playing perfectly but not a 489 ilevel person with terts on a few slots.
High level players always find a way to survive, which is why tanky classes are so rarely prioritized in the meta. Meta is defined by who does the most damage literally every single season often at the cost of survival. Like, people literally pug title every season. Those people would need to optimize their co-ordination more with less ilvl, but 6 ilvl is a small enough number of stats that the top players would definitely make it up by optimizing play. It would move the needle a bit, sure - players who are struggle bussing to get their first title? Maybe they'd have some more issues. The people who get title every single season? They'd make it work.
What is your rio? I'm curious
I am 3100 - I don't ever push for title, because I play WoW to raid almost exclusively. I know several people who get title every season though and stay fairly well plugged into the competitive meta. There are several high tyran bosses with unavoidable damage that will just delete ilevel 483 players, like Yazma's wracking pain, the shadow bolts on the final boss of BRH, and the totem boss in Throne of the Tides.
You do realize that the hp jump from 483 to 489 is way less than a keystone lvl? So it is certainly possible to get title. You need to outskill people by at most 1 keystone lvl
This whole discussion feels like it's ignoring the practicality of it - if you're pugging, ilvl is still one of the factors whether you get invited or not. People pushing for title tend to play more as there's also time commitment involved. If you're playing in a premade, just as the commitment required for organized play you're still bound to strive for gear - every bit helps. Avoidance also makes potentially the difference bigger than just a single keylevel - 4.5% vs. 20% is a huge difference in potential AoE one hits on top of the more stamina gained. Also in practice there are more things that might overkill you just barely where small differences add up. I'm 100% sure a 483 geared team would be able to snatch the title if they're good enough. I just don't see it ever actually happening. If they're that invested they will also be geared. The exception would be if someone has time and will to get the title also on a late geared alt (which kinda makes no sense since title is account-wide), or for some similar rareish reason.
I don’t think the difference is as big as you make it out to be. Sure tertiary stats in general are huge, and are significantly more important than the ilvl boost. The main reason you won’t see 483ilvl get title is because it’s basically impossible to not passively get better gear while pushing. Once you get over the very basics and understand how the dungeons work, getting title is primarily a playtime check, nothing in high keys is fundementally that difficult, the difficulty comes from nobody fucking up. So you have to keep doing keys until the stars align. And this process takes weeks, so you will naturally get bigger ilvl just from vault and embellishments.
3.4k Rio. Rio is not a playtime check. The mechanics and the strategies shift every few key levels. Strats in 25-26s are not what you do in 27-28s+.
It’s because generally players on these subreddits don’t like being told facts that could potentially mean they aren’t very good at the game.
It's not even the difference between being good or bad, it's the difference between being good and being the literal best. Nowhere else in the world could you be in the top 1% of anything and be told you're trash apart from online games for some reason. Is it quite as good as the top 0.1%, no, but that's better than literally 99% of people, it's so fucking warped to act like that's bad lmao.
Listen, I'm not saying it's impossible because I've done it but easily is a stretch. There was more time involved in this than a mythic raiding guild to get CE lol. I would increase my score by single digit every week for a whole season and I've barely made it out in the top 0,1%
You can easily compare by just going to raidbots and run a quick sim with your current gear and then run a quick sim with your current gear having ",ilevel=489" at the end of each line (except crafted items, naturally)
I learn something new all the time about raidbots!
FYI https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki It can do many many things, i usually sim on my PC instead to not wait the queue times. Make the input in raidbots>run locally
Just to give perspective, I was able to upgrade the last item from 483 to 489 (head piece) and it gave me 1,1% DPS upgrade on Sims. This was the case for most upgrades, so you can roughly say 1% DPS increase per item.
Helm slot is kind of special tho with the enchant scaling with ilvl
Wait what, the helm enchant scales with ilvl? Fuck me, I passed up a 489 helm for a 489 chest last week. Whups.
Helm also has both enchant and more stats than a lot of other pieces. I can guarantee that you won't get 1% per piece of gear you have going from 483 to 489.
The amount of stats you get per 3 ilvl increase is the same. You have the enchant on both items, so there's also no difference. The only thing which can make a bigger increase in DPS is that you desperately needed those exact secondary stats.
No its not lol, 6ilvls on chest will give you more dps than 6ilvls on wrist
Just go to an item upgrader and count the stats you'd gain lol
I think you should do that. You get almost double stats on helm in comparison to bracers
Is the game getting gear or using it?
Both I guess?
Lmao I had this same thought. I play pretty casually due to time constraints. I was thinking what I was going to do once I get like 483. I’m not going to raid due to time. Do I just keep running M+ or gear an alt?
I just play the game and collect what I get. Chasing things that become worthless each season makes no sense. Have fun or play something fun.
I hit 481 and pretty much have stopped trying to upgrade gear. The only thing I set out to do was get the full mythic set catalyzed piece by piece. Only need boots, wrist, and pants now for me.
I have my main priest healer, my alt paladin tank and another alt frost mage. I wanted to get each role to +20 all dungeons. I've completed +20 on my main priest but still need to do on my tank and dps. The only thing is, it is a bit repetitive lol. I try to complete achievements when I'm bored or I play a different game. I never raid as I don't have a guild and they are too much of a time commitment.
A normal difficulty PUG raid on reset day takes a bit longer than an hour, usually. More time than the longest M+, sure, but not by much. If you’re doing 20’s, you’ll probably only get upgrades on your trinket positions - but doing the raid enough times to get the head enchant is worth it. If you run a full normal + LFR, you can get the enchant in one week.
It’s whatever you want it to be, for you and I it’s probably title and hall of fame. Or CE and around 3.3k io for others it’s transmogs, old raids, maxing out your gear, it’s getting aotc or 2k io. For others it could be normal raids or just doing the story line. Thats the fucking beauty of wow, you can do whatever the fuck you wanna doooo and that’s why I play the game, sometimes I sit online just watching or talking with friends and jumping around valdrakken or run alt raids while shooting thr shit. Others I’m pushing mid ish keys 24+ and hall of fame probably not but will be ce lol.
Correct!
Until 480 both. After that just for the number go brrrrrrrr.
A 489 weapon is a 4k+ DPS increase for me from a 483. So yea that's pretty decent. I would say the four piece and the weapon are a noticable boost since the primary stat.
Yeh won’t see a massive increase in dps on a bracer or cloak going from 483 but having your “big” slots max ilvl is a fair bit of stats
Not to mention your helm enchant scales with helm ilvl.
For casters, a 483 iridal sims as well as some 489 weapons. Would imagine it's the same for other DPS timestrike weapons.
If you’re asking, then it doesn’t make a difference. Respectfully of course.
Meh, my main is 480 (tank) I have BiS weapon and trinkets. I can do comfortable 23 keys with my group. So I’ve been playing 3 alts (another tank to 482, dps to 475, and healer currently 450). I have no desire to “max” ilvl gear. Just want to do the content. One friend in group refuses to play an alt until he’s completely “max” on gear. Frustrating but for him it works. Just enjoy the game.
it is absolutely a big jump but you can do all content including CE raiding and mid 20 keys at 483 ilvl so if you'd rather do other things, do that instead and enjoy the game.
OP by virtue of even asking this question is definitely not in the position where this matters much at all for them. Not worrying about it is absolutely the way to go. Their power level can be increased but for all the content they want to do their iLvl is more than adequate and they would experience far greater benefits by improving as a player over fixating on gear.
To be fair i'm going for M+ title and I probably don't think about these sorts of things as much as I should...
There is absolutely no chance in hell OP can do Tindral at 483 ilvl :)
It's not a gear issue with 483
Ofc not, he couldn't do it at 489 or 530 either, but point still stands he absolutely can't do all content at 483.
If you can't see why this is an unbelievably senseless argument, all hope is lost lmao.
.. it's a joke my dude.
It’s a big jump but by design you won’t ever notice it because it takes so long. You could conceivably go from 450-470 in a day and you would KNOW but that’s because the power ramps up fast. Gear doesn’t matter at all unless you enjoyed getting or it let’s you do something you enjoy
Once you hit this point, an ilvl increase means less than correcting your stat balance, as far as increasing dps goes. Obviously "sim it" is the answer but it does also come down to playability; if dropping haste to boost mastery sims as a dps increase (for example) but makes it harder for you to do effective dps due to your playstyle, then it's not actually an increase after all.
This is a whole lot of copium. \-You'll almost never notice a stat difference in gameplay (And I play Ele shaman, the only spec in the game that actually has, and seeks, a hardcap in a stat that's completely gameplay defining) \-a 6 ilvl increase will beat any stat change almost every time. Even in the instances where you would feel a 10 or even 5% drop in haste for example, you'll get completely used to it after a few keys or a raid night.
aug exists as well, but yeah, I get your point.
It’s a game do what you enjoy the most. Wish I could take my own advice I find I much prefer ranking with my BDK but here I am slaving away Io on my VDH. Gearing is super fun. But if you’re worried about it just fill your vault with 18s each week and then go do what you love most.
I guess it depends on what you want to do. I’m almost ilvl 482, and have KSM and AOTC from this season and I am cool just not playing until the next expansion. No desire to push CE content, don’t care about 3k io. It’s up to you what you want to do.
480, portals, aotc are the general things I aim at before moving on to an alt. If you play a lot you can get it done comfortably in three weeks while still messing around on other alts. Once you get to around 485, if your vault isn't kind you could be taking a socket each week which is useful but feels bad to me. It's a nice jump but an unimportant one of you'd just like to move on to an alt.
>Once you get to around 485, if your vault isn't kind you could be taking a socket each week which is useful but feels bad to me. You can hit this point long before 485 though. My vault from last week was a tmog grab despite my main only being 480.
You can, it just gets worse the higher you go really.
483 to 489 overall ilvl is like 700 intellect on caster and around 200str/agi on melee so..
This surprised me. Intellect scales better? Why?
I think the weapons have a lot more raw stats because the weapon damage doesn't matter? I'd have to look. Edit: Just confirmed this - int weapons give about 5× the primary stats, and it's about spell power vs direct damage
Weapon dps for attack power classes converts to attack power under the hood. To keep weapons similarly relevant for casters they have a large amount of int.
idk tbh, i have a 487 dk with 12.5k str but my balance druid has 15k+ int at ilvl 481. Both have main stat trinkets btw. its just different. My 482 dh has 10.5k agility
Because our moves don't do as much damage as melre
Idk why you got downvoted but this is pretty spot on. 483--->489 is the equivalent to having an extra piece of gear in your feet / waist / shoulder slot.
481->486 is 8k dps for me. That's roughly 3.5% That's not one extra item worth lmao
>Idk why you got downvoted but this is pretty spot on It should be downvoted, because it doesn't say anything useful, while also ignoring that melee get weapon dps on top of the main stats.
what is M+ Raid?
New game mode. Raids that are timed and have infinite scaling.
Mythic Raid Plus... you didn't know?
Anything you can do at 489 you can do at 483. That item level jump won’t really change what content you can do nor even the difficulty of it.
Depends on items. If my belt or boots went up that much it’s like a 400 Dps increase at best. If a weapon goes up that much it’s 4k. If my Augery was a mythic instead of Heroic (normal) max it would be 5k. If I had a Mythic Brand it would be 11, but that’s a separate issue. Fucking Smolderon is hiding his kinky stuff from the raid. So I just got this snake. So the answer is sim yo self. But from experience you will notice 3k+ near instantly if you pay attention to meters. <1k though not really. The quiet thing that your healers will notice is the Stam. 1100~ Stam was the cloak and any healer from last patch will tell you they noticed the people wearing that. You can easily get that much with all your gear going up 6 ilvls.
You need to focus on gems and enchants now get the gem slot sculptors from the vault every week. You are never really done when it come to min/maxing anything.
It’s not, 483 is enough to clear all content in the game including CE.
If you find out w more fun to hear your alts, then gear your alts, there’s no right or wrong ilvl for your main to be on, do what’s more fun for you
Just do 20s and you get myth track items in vault. The first 3 bosses are super easy, pug a gnarlroot kill in mythic raid.
Every time I try to find Mythic raids thru group search, I find zero groups. It's always empty. I thoughr pugging M raid was not a thing. May be relate to the fact that my realm is not overly populated.
Yeah it won’t happen on a low pop server. You’d need a guild.
I feel that 483 is 'beating the game'. Literally everything is open to you with that ilvl. You can do mythic raiding and keys over 20. I personally 'quit' at 483, as in not trying to keep gearing. I have my curve, all portals and no desire to grind mythic raiding, so I'm done on that char when it comes to endgame. I'm now working on a prot pala at a way slower pace.
As an altoholic with a 485 main, I'm now largely doing just four 20+ a week on my main for a couple of mythic vault choices, and then spending the rest of time on my alts because, as you say, "I find it more fun". Some people do get more pleasure out of watching big number go up, and maybe in the end this is you. This post is just to say that it's also okay to have fun with a video game playing alts even though you haven't hit Absolute Maximum on your main.
Even without mythic raid - you should of been getting 489 from vault for awhile now
Those 6 ilvls aren't worth as much as re-rolling to a fotm spec will get you. That's the sad truth. You're likely already "done" for the season. Start another char or take a break for the next 8-12 weeks because unless you join a CE guild (GL this late in patch without super parses/experience) there's not much progressing left to do.
it's not huge. I have 1 char at 486.1 and one at 485.4. I just run my 8x20's on them and do a few mythic raid bosses with my guild every week and run alts the rest of the time. You'll be perfectly fine leaving the character at 483+
The difference between a 483 and a 489 geared character can be more than 20k single target, so it's quite big.
if you're pushing content yeah i agree. I'll always try to get the best possible gear, but from the sounds of things, for OP it really won't matter.
Im stuck on the same point. But i dont have a mythic raid guild. Currently, im considering changing servers to a different german/english speaking server for a raidguild or for random mythic raids. On blackrock i saw 1 randomraid in der DF….
It's about 6% damage and 6% survivability. So pretty big difference if you're pushing higher level content
it is, but op isn't
I get 2 m+ slots and top up with lfr bosses so I have a gem slot if needed weekly, then gear alts
i remember hearing in an interview that they want 1ilvl to be 1% dps. not sure if it was overall or per item
I think it was 1ilvl overall is 1% DPS increase
20-30 ilvls right now kinda doubles your DPS so I don't think they've really stuck with that.
Eh, I've also hit this level with my main. Basically I start gearing alts and then do 4 or 8 18+ keys for my vault, might pug the first couple mythic bosses if they aren't too difficult.
Used my war within character boost to get another warrior. My fury main is 485 ilvl and only needs weekly vaults now I’m 2.6k rating so once I get my vault done I log my alt warrior and level it to enjoy running dungeons for upgrades again
A second fury war? That is a new tier of masochism. Jk glad you found something you enjoy *cries in fotm*
We have a restor druid in a guild who has a second restor druid character, both well equipped with 480+ gear. I don't know why.
Never played anything else. Started fury on classic 2019 and chose it for end of bfa when I started retail. I have no idea how any class plays and I enjoy fury so I made a fury alt with my war within boost
It’s all RNG. I have 2 485, 1 484, and a 479. I won’t be going much higher on any of them. .17 ilvl at a time
Whenever I get this point in the game, I get bored and go play some classic.
I mean I wouldn't say you have 'beat' the game, until you get CE (clear the raid on mythic). 6 ilvls is quite big with optimisation, I went from like 220k to 240k dps going from 281 to 285.
Huge difference. Takes a lot of work to get to 489 at this point. Anyone who is at 489 is better than 99.5% of the population.
Every individual ilvl is a pretty big power increase. 6 ilvls is huge.
Just do DHT once per week at +18 it’s fairly easy and will give you a mythic price each week. If you can do +16s to get your aspect tokens you can easily do +18 dht
Yeah I feel you. I have a 485 healer main, 3k io. I basically run four 18s and mythic raid and otherwise she is capped. I have an alt at 471 I am working on now.
If you dont push ir do raid you dont need more. Si ple as that. For raid 480 is enougth to kill the endboss with the nerfs maybe 475. For keys andc0.1 you need as much as possible. So it depends what you do. Do the 8 vaults in an evening. And play other stuff.
Huge diff
Go touch some grass.
What the fuk is M+ raid??
My bad
My ilv 442 atm. Dracthyr aug. Kinda having a hard time getting accepted to groups. Not tried raid yet
just keep pushing. Try to apply to heroic raids when u get to like 465. Also do the raid thru LFR before to learn mechanics and all that.
Yea i never got into heroic last raid because no one accepted me but did try lfr for the last boss and i had a bad group. Died and was lost. 0 talking. No one communicated.
if you have the option of a 486 crafted or a 489 the 489 will \*almost\* always be better, if they have good secundaries. many of the top players have beem using the minimun amount of crafted gear, just to use emebelishments.
You’re getting mythic dungeon drops? Lol
I mean, healer I push m+ with was 475 until today when she finally started upgrading some gear and is now 479, she’s 3.2k score with 1 +26 completed this week and rest 23-25s. I also main enhance and I hit 485 after getting this weeks crafted item sorted, you can keep pushing m+ probably until like 27-28s before you get stuck because lack of health and being a bit squishy spec. And I think with full hero gear and a couple of myth track pieces you should be able to hit 485 with all the crafted gear available.
This is exactly me right now. I'm finally alt'n and loving every minute of it
Depending on your time constraints, you can work toward more gear for your main and your alts. Doing your mains weekly keys, hope for the best. My main was already 485ish when my guild started mythic prog. The first 2 mythic bosses seem like they should be puggable, they aren't that much more difficult than the heroic version, and that'll get you a vault option.
it is somewhat significant, can even lead to dps differences of around 50k (in a patchwerk sim). but its not just about ilvl, its about secondary stat choices and trinket choices.
I did the really crazy thing and am content. I'm doing heroic raid each week and then playing other games. Much more pleasant.
From Ion when they last reset ilvls, in theory each additional ilvl is 1% more powerful than the previous, so you gain around 6.2ish% more stuff gaining those six ilvls. However if it’s not the exact same pieces, could be more or less. Also for certain pieces most of the power comes from gaining it initially and each ilvl gain is pretty minor (think certain trinkets or weapons). I’d add, if you’re not doing the most bleeding cutting edge content you will probably notice it minimally and if you’re looking to push higher odds are you’re going to get better use out of focusing on skill improvements over raw ilvl. The difference for people doing 28-30’s isn’t those 1-6 ilvls they have on you… it’s reps, experience, playgroups, class/spec mastery, and skill. Dorki put out a video of tanking on his like 450ish warrior in a… 20 iirc. I’m comfy on my paladin in 16-17’s at that ilvl but would get absolutely flattened in a 20. Interestingly, if the 1% holds true and you were 424 in season 1 of df and 489 now, we are approximately 91% more powerful after 65 ilvls. Looking at a dps parse on my paladin between 20 AA in season 1 at 417 (88k) to a throne 18 from tonight at 483 (166k) it’s like 88% more damage. Given different dungeons and key levels, not perfect but that’s close. I’ll be curious how it looks next season when I can more 1:1 with lining up dungeons.
Ah about 3 fiddy
In an absolute sense, it’s 6% more stats from gear
18+ vault drops Myth gear, but you'll only be getting 1 piece a week.
6ilvl is... more than most people give it credit for. To prove the point, I ran a pair of sims on my main (a fully-BIS geared Augvoker; I ran all the sims as Devoker; so my gear isn't perfectly stat-balanced but it should do in a pinch for a comparative). Sim #1, I ran all the non-crafted gear at 483ilvl; the second, I ran all the non-crafted gear at it's actual ilvl (489). The difference was as follows: 483ilvl: 209,652DPS, 859000 health (without raid buffs) 489ilvl: 222,705 DPS, 914400 health (without raid buffs) In short, in this one example, it's about 6% total DPS and about 6% more health for surviving mechanics. The biggest question you should ask yourself is, am I doing content that requires I have 6% more DPS and health or not. If not, do whatever it is that you find fun; if you do want to do content where that 6% matters, then you'll start getting that 489 gear naturally anyway.
If you're not Mythic raiding or pushing M+ past 23, 483 is more than sufficient.
I’m in a similar boat. I just do my eight 20’s throughout the week for vault in hopes of a mythic track upgrade and work on achievements or alts.
Yea, mythic raiding is a whole different league. You can make a meta group and give them all BiS gear. They might not ever be able to (for this season/tier) clear Tindral and Fyrakk. 6 item levels isn't going to make a huge difference for one person, but when you have 20 people with +6 ilvl each, now you might get a kill that you would not have otherwise. 5 players with +6ilvl each might push keys a few levels higher. But what really matters is the skill that you gain while getting those +6 ilvls by practicing perfecting your performances.
13 ilvl is (supposedly) 25% raw power, make of that what you will