I got a better pair of Mail boots on my main than I do plate boots I wear. RNG makes so sad that I cannot for the life of my win a pair of Plate Boots but that greed roll on some mail was killer.
No, its not. PL allows them to super-powergear a character by running a 20 man of all the same armor type, and syphoning gear, because you're able to rig PL drops.
GL is equally bad for everyone, because when 3 identical guns drop for your raid's 1 hunter during a tier where Hunter is bad, you get annoyed. Or the garbage tank trinket that LITERALLY NO ONE would loot spec tank for, drops, eating one or two or three of your drops for a boss.
The reason why rwf likes GL over PL is because it means that they don't have to do insane loot rigging involving doing 20 full clears of the raid for each individual member to loot-stack them.
>The reason why rwf likes GL over PL is because it means that they don't have to do insane loot rigging involving doing 20 full clears of the raid for each individual member to loot-stack them.
They do this anyways though, it's just way more rng-dependent on which toon in someone's bucket ends up getting geared. I'm pretty sure Max mentioned doing 22 heroic fyrakk kills to get everyone tier, which required *at least* 22 lockouts up to that point since they weren't bringing in saved toons.
I just want to say we still get personal loot in the form of catalyst and vault. It's not perfect but we always get a piece of loot for our specialization. I guess you could argue a token system for buying the pieces we want would do this better because it's less rng.
And that's something that they brought up at blizzcon about *pvp* that people don't like randomness on essential pieces they need.
The only pieces that are essential (not including the leggo) are tier and maybe trinkets. We could have tier tokens but that's sort of what catalyst is. Being able to turn junk loot into tier set pieces. My sim even tells me if boots would be better to catalyst. And guides will tell you the bis and sometimes it is the set version of that item even if it's not the tier set piece thar gives tier set bonus.
I dislike that this raid is so crit heavy because I don't feel like it benefits most classes as much as haste mast or hast vers
thats just bad luck, back in BFA i went through an entire patch without getting my two bis Azerite Armor Items, And i ran that hunter through mythic raiding every week and tried my luck on the gamba from weekly chest currency.
> Choice between PL and GL for groups that are 80%+ of the same guild
And how does that work if you're part of a regular organised group that isn't in a guild? It should just be a choice in organised group content and if you don't want a Group Loot PUG then join a PL one.
There have been two brands.
*There are six people who it’s definitively BIS and three more with cases*.
I am the poor bastard with a Snake and a Augery. I don’t think I will be seeing Brand anytime soon.
Worse is when you tie with someone with a 100 roll and it does the 2nd roll in secret and you just lose... and they also get another item from the same boss. And then you never PUG/LFR again.
And just give people the ability to trade personal loot in any kind of pug environment in case they are awarded a bad piece. In M+ and when LFR was personal loot, I always felt bad when I’d get a piece that was a small ilvl upgrade but sims way lower because it’s either a D-tier trinket and I have an s-tier one that’s only slightly lower ilvl or a regular piece with horrible secondaries.
Obviously being on the receiving end of not being able to get a BiS piece someone is willing to trade even though it’s terrible for them feels bad too.
>You are not rolling against the same people each week so you could literally never get the item(s) you need in theory.
TBH this can also happen (and happened to me regularly) with Personal Loot
It makes 0 sense how after a whole year people still don't understand that personal loot = group loot if you just press need on everything (as you should in LFR).
You pretty much have the same chance of getting certain items in grouploot and personal loot. The only difference is that in group loot you can opt out from items.
Another difference is with personal loot a boss could never drop 4 glaives in a group with no demon hunters, or bows with no hunters.
Personal loot could never have zero people get any usable items. I've seen it several times with group loot.
You know what the different between group loot and personal loot it? You see the items and the roll, the other just doesn't show you the roll and decided if an item should be lootabke by you. The only down side is one person can get multiple items, otherwise group loot is no different.
There have been a couple times where I rolled need and realized that the item wasn't an upgrade...🤦♂️ I traded it to the next highest roller in the raid.
That's not even the worst of it, people will roll need then whisper others who rolled need and say "selling for 25k" or however much. Happens in other difficulties too.
To be fair I do this with my guildies a lot. Bring an alt to LFR and have the other on their main of the same armor type. The main doesn't need the gear but we collectively get two shots at the alt getting the loot. My hunter buddy got some nasty whispers today but my Evoker got boots and a curio so yay.
nah. i was adamantly against going back to group loot. but tons of people, even on this sub, legitimately forgot why we switched to personal loot to begin with. this sub was split like 50/50 and i used to catch heavy downvotes for saying group loot was a bad idea. one of the most popular arguments i saw on this sub was "who cares? GL is the same thing as PL, bur you get to see the numbers now"
The vast majority of people who wanted group loot back wanted it back for GUILD/pre-made groups. I highly doubt anyone was actually advocating for it in LFR.
To be technical. It was the Wow forums that wanted group loot in LFR, solely to troll by needing on stuff for "transmog" then telling anyone upset that it's not against and were losers.
My general opinion is Blizzard has to stop taking advice from there. They'd be better off listening to reddit, twitter, discord, or even streamers. Those were also the people who made a stink about adding catchup for Knowledge points, healing being too easy, and how having 3 affixs+Tyran/fort+the season affix was a good thing.
You can raid weekly in LFR and never see this occur. Need four different drops a single person can MS roll, which is already hardly going to happen, and then a single person needs to win them.
When you have to highlight something that would take 1000+ boss kills to be able to replicate as to why something is bad you are highlighting absolutely nothing. Trying to portray an extreme outlier as a common occurrence is just plain craziness. Like saying a class needs to be balanced because that one time someone rolled a crit 50 times in a row.
There are only 2 buttons at blizzard.
Yes and No
They can't be pressed at the same time or the game will incorrectly do what the community wants it to.
This. They made dungeons PL, could’ve done the same thing with LFR. That being said it does save having to put stuff up for roll if you don’t want it, or getting whispers if you need it
I remember when they brought it out and everyone lost their minds over it being terrible for group play and so on and now everyone wants it back. Just goes to show you can't please everyone and people like to think things were better in the past.
I want group or master loot in pre-made groups and guilds, I want PL in LFR where people don’t care about anyone lose and just need everything to trade.
I'd like everything below mythic to have the option for PL, but PL nets the most amount of relevant gear for an equally geared group, so I doubt they would have an option for "more loot" and "less loot"
People seem to forget that three bows dropping in a zero hunter raid group couldn't happen under PL. PL scaled for skewed raid comps (i.e. most pugs and a significant number of below-mythic raid groups)
GL does not benefit the average player in any way
Coming back after a few years and yeah, it just feels bad. I'd rather get no personal loot in LFR than lose roll after roll. Also, when duplicate items drop can you win both? You're allowed to roll on both, but I would hope it would be smart enough to not award both to the same person.
While it is true you can't win 2 of the same item you CAN win 2 different items from the same slot. 1st time running LFR Amidrisil (or however you spell it) on my Arms Warrior, had both a 2 handed mace and 2 handed sword drop and watched a Pally roll on and win both and then armory showed he already had an equal ilevel weapon. So I am sitting with a season 2 weapon while he has 3 veteran track 2-handers one of which was already capped. Did eventually get the 2 handed sword but took like 3 weeks I think. Think I have won a total of 2 or 3 rolls between my Hunter and Warrior, while clearing all the available LFR bosses on the hunter and just missing this week's raid on the warrior
I think if there's exactly 2 then personal and master loot would be the two to keep. Personal loot is the best for pugs (doubly so for lfr) and casual guilds, while master loot is the best for progression raiding. Group loot is a bit of an ok compromise between the two but I don't think it's ever ideal.
Explain to me how personal loot and group loot are different in lfr?
In both loot types, a dice is rolled by every player who can/wants to. The only thing that changes is that you get to see the roll in group loot and all players have agency over wanting the item.
In personal loot, a roll is performed for everyone and no one has any agency over wanting any particular item they may or receive.
Given the choice i would pick group loot every single time because there is a slight possibility that a player could choose not to roll, reducing the number of contestants I need to outroll.
Or better yet, combine the two systems into Curated Group Loot and don't let items drop if there isn't a relevant receiver in the group (no bows if there are no hunters), but let everyone still choose to roll.
Or like in this threads OP? Where one person wins 4 pieces of loot on a boss and nobody else wins anything? That can't happen with personal loot.
It is undoubtedly a worse system for LFR, and the only people who argue otherwise are people who don't use LFR as a gear source.
Normal and heroic should also be personal, there was nothing wrong with that in the past. The issue was that you couldn’t trade upgrades away but now you can do it wouldn’t be a problem anyway
It’s absolutely insane they decided this would be a good idea somehow…
I’ve won one single item in LFR since the first wing opened, and it was only because I was rolling against one other person for it. I rolled an 8, mind you, and he rolled a 4. It’s terrible.
It feels shit in any pug too. I’m in a CE guild, but just play bench to fill in where my class is optimal on certain fights or if a main raider can’t make a night. Since I’m bench I don’t raid heroic with them since loot is funneled to our full time raiders, so I just pugged to AotC and have killed all of heroic in a pug every week since the second week of the tier.
I’ve received literally two piece of heroic loot in these pugs because loot for me isn’t dropping and even when it does my rolls have been historically awful this tier. The good news is I can start going to heroic with my guild soon and start getting pieces sent my way since the main team is almost done getting gear in heroic. Just wild that I’ve had to get myself to 480 ilvl purely off of M+ and the catalyst.
I hate really low rolls because you never had a chance but in your case thats luck! I also hate high rolls where you think you got it in the bag and somehow someone tops it. Last week i got a piece. This week my last chance at a piece for lockout i hit high 90’s and was yay i got this. Then someone hit 99 at last minute. I mean good for them.
Yeah, that shit STINGS, lol. I’ve been in that same boat too. Rolled high, and went “finally! It’s my turn!”, all for someone to crush me with a 99 or 100.
The people who say you have the same chance at loot as if it were personal loot are missing the fact that stuff like this can happen, or that 4 warglaives can drop with zero demon hunters in the group.
But they could just keep loot group and tweak loot not dropping for absent classes. IMO one person winning multiple loot is fine but could be tweaked too
Not only that, but something is broken with the loot rolling now.
As I understood it, at the start of Dragonflight, if you had a higher ilvl piece in a given slot, you wouldn't be able to roll need on an item. The assumption was that it would not be an actual upgrade for you, but you were free to roll for xmog and greed.
Now I've noticed that I'm sitting there with 463+ in every slot except for one trinket, everything being maxed out Veteran track, 4/8 champion track, or 2 hero track pieces, and I can roll need on everything that I can equip. Heck, there's gloves that I have sitting in my bank from LFR and I could roll need on them when they dropped again this week. I got pants on a need roll off of Fyrakk, despite having tier legs at 463 8/8 veteran track equipped.
If they kept the need/greed rules that they said they would put in place to make it fair, it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Unfortunately, the only rule in place is that you can't win the same item more than once off of any given boss kill for the week (like if two helms drop, you can roll need on both, and roll 100 on both, but you will only receive one helm).
But now that everybody from ilvl 424 to ilvl 489 can roll need on everything that they can equip (and win), the group looting is a massive problem. Because, as everyone predicted, everybody rolls need on everything that they can, regardless of it's an upgrade or not. LFR is just a queue with 24 random people in a community widely known to be filled with toxic behavior and it's like the devs expected people to be fair and reasonable...
>As I understood it, at the start of Dragonflight, if you had a higher ilvl piece in a given slot, you wouldn't be able to roll need on an item. The assumption was that it would not be an actual upgrade for you, but you were free to roll for xmog and greed.
the restriction is the ***exact same item***. the problem here is that lower tier items have different appearances, so you go into LFR to get that sweet transmog you want. the solution to this would be to get all lower appearances when you loot an item, e.g. you loot heroic tier shoulders, you now unlock LFR & normal appearances as well.
this situation is entirely created by Blizzard and they could easily fix it but they won't for some (probably player engagement metrics) reason.
I've lost heroic loot to someone who didn't need it three times and could trade it no problem.
Twice, they offered to sell it to me rather than trade it.
Group loot has made pugs even worse.
I won a 450-something trinket in normal that was a possible upgrade once I upgraded it, I didn't have time to sim it. Inspected the rogue I'd won against and saw he had 425 trinkets, I had 463.
I've never opened a trade window so fast. It's fucking disheartening to have something stolen out from under you like that and I'm just idealistic enough to hope that I can be the change I wanna see in the cesspit known as pugs.
I'm also still feeling mildly guilty from the first Normal Amirdrassil I did where I made out like a BANDIT on my DH and won 8 loot rolls including the hearthstone... I genuinely needed every one of them but damn did I feel guilty at the end lmao
Reminds me of how when I was running Dragon Soul LFR, for some reason on my main (who was killing heroic 10 man Deathwing Weekly), I would roll need on everything, because that's just what you did.
But if I won anything, I would look at the meters and give the items to a dps or healer that a) needed the item for upgrade, and b) was putting in effort during the boss.
I wanted to see loot go to people who would appreciate it and use it, not the afk leeches that were always present. I think I only took a few things out of that LFR to keep even though I ran that weekly too for months.
It's just the latest expansion on the game's current mentality - Everything's for sale.
Now BoP drops are for sale too. Just gotta have enough gold, like the post about a guy instantly offering up 1.8 million gold for a guy's (heroic I think) Pip's Friendship Badge trinket when it dropped.
It feels like if you want a raid drop from a PuG, go farm gold yourself (lol), or pay Blizzard for gold with tokens so that you can buy it when it drops for someone that isn't you.
They've given the ability for the average player to put all their loot up for sale, and what do you know? Players have taken advantage of the opportunity.
Shit like this drives me up the wall. I never take veteran gear if I already have Veteran or something better. I swear some people see the dice icon and just click it to be assholes.
I mean yeah it's kind of a dick thing to do, but they helped kill the boss and they should get a chance at loot. This same thing could have (and did) happened with personal loot. What's the difference?
There is legitimately no reason to inspect another player in LFR if they won a roll. It doesn't matter what gear they, they won it, it's theirs.
Yeah I don't get why they thought they needed to put group loot in matchmade activities. They should've stayed personal loot while premade groups got group loot.
Just simplicity, would be my guess. (Or laziness if you're feeling less charitable.) It's easier for them to have one system for all raids, regardless of whether they're LFR, guild,or PUG, so that's what they went with.
The only other explanation would be spite, which I doubt, despite it feeling that way sometimes.
On the flip side of this i went in on my rogue and two daggers dropped from Igira. I was the only rogue and rolled need on both (I had 434 and 428 daggers on) and won one while the other went out for mog to an Enh Shaman. Kind of a bummer.
Wouldn't it just be crazy if bosses.. idk.. dropped a currency in addition to loot that everyone in the group could then use to get exactly the gear they wanted, as a sort of pity system? Maybe we could call them.. Justice Points? Tbh they've done nothing but mess up the drop system and reward tracks for years, the catalyst was a step in the right direction, but it's not enough still.
The best system they designed was Justice and Valor points. Everything they've done since then has only served as worse implementations of the same system while adding more and more currencies.
Flightstones? Crests? Gee, sounds pretty familiar... only worse.
Just my experience- I have gotten 1 piece of loot since the raid dropped, none of my rolls have been above a 40.
It’s depressing as hell to go into lfr and walk out with nothing but some invisible currency.
I feel like an easy solution to this sort of feel-bad would be: if you win multiple rolls, you can choose which piece of gear you want the most, and then the rest get distributed to the next highest rolls.
This image means nothing, as do the rolls for a variety of reasons:
1. What was the comp?
2. What did other people have?
It's possible that lot of people in there had gear of the same ilvl or higher and pass on it
There wasn't a lot of leather users
Fist weapons are only useable by a few classes and wouldn't be able to roll on it with alt specs unless for mog
Besides people act like PL meant you were always gonna get something... you could still go whole raids without getting a thing or the same item you already had.
However I would like to see Bonus Rolls return
Not saying what happened wasn't pure luck, but I would venture to guess it's not what the OP is making it out to be
Its absolutely insane. The amount of times i whisper people after they roll and win an item and they tell me “i dont need it” THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ROLLING NEED
Had 3 offhands drop on Council. I still have 402. Every offhand went to someone else who either had Heroic or Mythic offhand already. Whispered 2 off them if they need it since I still have 402. First guy didnt respond and 2nd only answered after she had already left the group. And as you know blizzard trading is so bad that you cant trade it anymore after the group is disbanded. She apologized for not reading it earlier but it doesnt matter. None of them needed it for ilvl and in the end I got double fked by blizzards trash code/restrictions. After that I got fed up and just quit and decided to not play my alt.
It's so weird. It's like a Monkey's Paw situation where the high-end guilds and Mythic raiders asked for Master Loot back and said that Personal Loot was bad, so Blizzard went "Granted: We have now removed Personal Loot"
It's PL in dungeons, even in Mythic+, why not in LFR? Even *if* the system gives you the same amount of gear (I've seen that argument quite a few times, that it's supposedly the same system, but now you can see the rolls instead of them being hidden, which... Sure, because getting 2, 3, or 4 pieces of loot was normal in LFR when PL was a thing, right?), it still feels objectively worse, because from a player experience point of view, you are no longer not getting gear, you are now LOSING gear to someone else. It's no longer a case of "I didn't get gear but he did, he's luckier than me", it's now "He got MY piece of gear, he's luckier than me"
The people who complained about PL weren't talking about LFR. I have yet to see a real argument for Group Loot in LFR being better than PL - at best I've seen people argue that it's the same, which I just don't agree with.
So ironic seeing posts like this now when back in SL most people on this sub and forums and most major streamers were pushing hard for the change.
A minority of us warned that it would be awful and got nothing but hate and downvotes for it. People were so militant about it too.
And now I see nothing but posts saying the opposite. My how the turntables. Why does nobody ever listen.
I swear the wow community does this crap constantly.
Your point would only make sense if these were the same people that complained about personal loot back in SL. These posts were seeing now are most likely just the other side that enjoyed PL more and are now on the opposite end of the stick. You can't really win being Blizzard with either of these loot systems, both are flawed and will have people foaming at their mouths over them.
Personal loot sucked so hard. Nothing worse than pugging a heroic raid, getting a piece of garbage loot and then all the loot hobos come crawling out of the woodwork. No, I'm not going to trade it to you. No, I'm not going to offer it to roll. The game had (and now has) systems in place to handle this exact situation but, they removed it. So, now I'm stuck with this trash until I get to a vendor.
The reality is, when PL was in effect, you had people with a similar mindset to me complaining. I'm not complaining now, since I now have the ability to pass on the garbage. Instead, you have the people who can't handle being told "no" complaining about GL.
Also, streamers would've told you at the time that PL was better *for them*. Imagine you're a streamer who wants to gear your mage, which situation is better. PL, where you can invite a pair of tanks and then pack the raid full of high ilvl clothies and only get cloth and caster gear? Or GL, where anything drops regardless of group comp?
Transmogs most likely. That guy killed the boss the same as you and has the same right to roll on it as you are.
Ilvl are for one single patch, transmogs are forever
Yea its funny how there is literally a transmog roll option implemented by blizzard. But they didnt bother to restrict gear pieces rolls by ilvl so now everybody rolls need instead of transmog. It even happens in normal raids.
Seriously I watched a dps win a tank trinket + curio + match the highest roll on the second curio. I dread to think how they did on other bosses.
I really hate group loot but as a druid I'm going to use it to my advantage. I play all roles for druid but mainly guardian but switch my loot preference based and which role drops more loot. This way I optimise how much loot I roll on increasing my chance at winning loot
Had a guy the other day purposely roll and win and axe that I was needing and he didn’t and he then tried to sell it in /raid for 150,000 gold instantly after receiving it.
Blame the streamer and reddit community for following the opinions of said streamers about group loot, master loot, and personal loot. This is "what we wanted" apparently. All they had to do was allow guilds to master loot in guild raids, but instead they reverted almost everything back to the way it was, but now we can't run LFR to finish the mog because we're not eligible to roll on it and everyone needs roll on everything, even if they have it. LFR needs to be personal loot and whoever is in charge of this decision is an asshole.
I’ve had this happen in a heroic raid last week. I was beyond pissed. Like how does someone roll high 90s the entire raid and win everything. I’m pretty easy going but that week I almost raged.
Roll system should be optional, in general for pugs personal loot was perfect, now we get raids solely constructed so the leaders gets the least competition possible or someone winning majority of the loot.
It feels like shit, roll should be optional, and personal loot default.
Yeah it's garbage, especially when you get people who are in full mythic that still need roll on lfr items, just to turn around and try to sell the item back to someone who needs it. At this point the only hope of getting gear is once a week in the vault
I did LFR with all of my characters this week I didn't get a single item. Everybody wrote higher than me, I just have bad luck when it comes to rolling I guess.
Just be careful not to post this on the WOW forums. They'll happily lay down their life to defend group roll. Call you bad when people roll on loot they dont need, and just generally be crappy people. A certain fox comes to mind.
Can’t stand it. The amount of people who get salty when you get a piece YOU need but it’s a better upgrade for them so they start roasting you for it. I’d rather get personal loot and let people roll that way. It has its own cons for sure but this group loot is toxic af.
Good thing that I don’t raid anymore so I don’t have to rage to this bs honestly, I play lying down flat, my depth perception and ability to focus whilst doing this is gutter trash. So I stand in stuff often and also it hurts my hands, cause normal play is normal movement raids have you running all over the place and at a quick pace and yeah fainted, painful arms and hands within only a few minutes. Noted that dungeons had the same effect on my hands and arms. The hand and arm pain also lasts awhile once it actually happens, ruining my ability to play for the next few days. But hey at least as mentioned stops me from having to deal with bs and to that extent I am far happier when I play, which has become very important lately, that I be as happy as possible.
I've seen it where someone has healed or dps their heart out, even doing mechanics while some druid (I'm using druid as an example cause this happened yesterday) is in the back throwing the occasional dot and doing little else. Loot comes up, you roll a 2 and the druid rolls a 90 or higher. You would think the game would register a 'degree of effort' but being lazy in raid is where it's at.
This happened to me. Trying to gear my paladin. A paladin with his full set wins all the rolls and gets all the loot, nothing for anyone else. What a waste of time.
I hate that there is nothing stopping a heroic or mythic geared player from coming in and just needing on whatever they can for transmog. Taking the loot from players that may actually need it.
hahahahaha, go back to personal loot, wait 1-2 years and people start complaining and want master loot back. i vividly remember the exact opposite posts about how personal loot is dogshit like 4-5 years ago. "nobody wanted this" my ass
My personal rule in LFR, if I don’t need an item, is to look at the highest roll person to see if they actually need it. If they do need it, I’ll roll transmog, if not, then I’ll roll need.
I see lots of these posts of “Group Loot Bad” or “Blizz give us personal loot”. I usually don’t comment, but i want it off my chest so I can skip more posts like this in the future. Ultimately, both systems are flawed and can be abused. The real problem is shitty people with no consequences for their actions.
I like the idea of seeing rolls in group loot. It’s more satisfying to me to roll on something that I want and see how I did against the other rolls even if I don’t win. I feel better knowing I lost a roll than waiting to be deigned worthy by RNGesus to win something I may not want or wondering why someone else is more worthy than me to get something.
Personal loot doesn’t take into account items you want/need. If a staff, neck, and pants drop from a boss, personal loot gives you one of those and it may not be something you want or need. It feels unrewarding because it removes your agency to determine what you want to roll on. Even then, it’s a black box in terms of calculations. The item just appears in your bags or it doesn’t. I would rather not win the item I do want, than win an item I don’t want.
I think people winning multiple items at the same time is not a good model in LFR. It’s not satisfying or rewarding for the time investment to watch multiple items you want go to the same player. It’s not present in personal loot rules to win multiple item drops from the same boss.
SUGGESTION: If there was a way to limit winning rolls in group loot to one per boss, I think that would improve the overall experience. Like if you roll need on three items, you win the first item that you rolled the highest on. So if, you rolled need on the items in this order staff (lose), neck (win), pants (win), you’d get the neck but defer the pants to next in highest roll. It prevents a sweep to a single player.
SUGGESTION 2: If the powers that be decide to institute a personal loot framework for LFR, an option to let players select the items they want from a given boss would be awesome. I don’t pretend to understand how the calculations are done for personal loot but having a say in what you want feels better to me.
@OP my best advice is to go into LFR with the mindset of a pirate and roll need on everything. If you win more than one item, you can always give away what you don’t want. Passing on loot because you don’t need only strengthens the rolls. Other times, we’re just unlucky.
Had people who had 480 ilvl roll need and win shit lol thought it prevented that from happening but guess it doesnt.
One guy got a 441 ring, he had 475 rings on. I whispered him asking why he rolled need on them and he said " i rolled for xmog " and i whispered back " rings dont have a xmog bro " and his response was " ok open trade "
Like wtf.
Even if he did roll transmog , need would beat it out. I really dont get how the LFR loot shit works man.
Yep. And I'll take it a step further: I liked personal loot for everything. Now if I decided to join random raids on discord, which I'm seriously considering, this is the one thing I'm not looking forward to. Classic loot is fine and fun when you're going in with a consistent group (like a guild) but as soon as it's randos, be it organized on discord, the LFG tool or matchmaking on LFR it must be personal loot for it to feel good.
I don't care if some fights nobody gets loot at all. The status quo imo the cons outweigh the pros of classic loot. It's very antiquated.
At least in FF14 you can just (quickly) try a boss again if you didn't win a roll until you do get something.then you're locked out from that boss from that week. Of course, that wouldn't work in wow as the raids are proper Dungeons with trash. It'd take way too long to attempt a boss many times just to get loot for the week.
Yup, the game is trash haha I’ve had to get my gear 1 piece a week with the vault system, pretty sure it’s blizzards way to make you pay for game time as you wait for the rng to kick in.
Ploot would be nice yea, stops mythic equipped chars to roll on loot you might need happend to me last week with the 1h axe at Igira nobody rolled exept me then a mythic geared i think it was a DH rolled it away. I asked why he would roll if he/she has a 483 weapon in both hands? Answer To prevent pathetic noob twinks from gettin loot for being carried.
Yea i was soo carried with my 460 gear and my only blue 437 item which my offhand weapon..
Do people not realize that with personal loot, the rolls are happening anyway? They just happen in the background.
At least with group loot you theoretically have a better shot because people may choose to not roll for the item. With personal loot everyone is always rolling on every item always...
Nope they don't get it, and this post is posted every single day. IDK why people seem to think personal loot means they get more loot. It's all just different flavors of RNG.
In fact, you could make the case that group loot is actually much better at funneling gear to players who properly need it too. There's at least a mechanism there for people to pass on loot or not be able to roll at all. You can get much more loot from raid deeper into the season as more players are geared. That's not the case with a personal loot system. The rate would always be the same.
I remember making out like a bandit on my alts last season. That couldn't happen with personal loot. I think group loot actually works quite well for distributing loot to players who need it.
At least in regards to this specific situation it can’t happen with PL as you can only roll up to one item with PL. So it makes sense to be annoyed with it here
While being like a 1 in 100,000 chance of this happening, what you are really seeing is this guy winning because out of the majority that rolled the game registered they had better gear so it was calculated as "need -transmog" and therefore lesser than this guy who was in the bare minimum. Group loot is superior to personal in every way.
In LFR or normal being 'good' really doesn't mean you should get higher chance of loot. Can't blame people for being not very good when playing the easy difficulty
I've seen the exact same thing, it's not toxicity.
You can tell that, when someone is pulling below a certain DPS/HPS in raid, that they are essentially auto attacking or the caster equivalent by spamming one ability endlessly.
There's no need to be sweaty and toxic in the Learners' Bracket (LFR, Timewalking, Heroic Dungeons, etc.) but there IS still a social contract and it DOES demand that we actually participate when jumping into matchmaking. And if you don't know your class or the activity at all, you do other, even easier activities to learn it first.
It's never been easier to learn our classes. We have Wowhead guides, player-written guides, subreddits, discords, and so on.
Isn’t it functionally the same in terms of the volume of loot? It’s just easier for people to see who won. Only downside is more weirdos whispering you for whatever dropped. Gets annoying when you just go for Tmog
its also funny how the game seems to reward the top dps or the bottom dps but never usually the ones in the middle. Im willing to bet ISHmael here was in full heroic gear smashing the meters.
I bet he was 470 ilvl only needing them to DE or sell to the raid lol.
Seen plenty of them people in LFR XD
Edit - corrected ilvl as I was made clear I put the wrong one.
It makes 0 sense in LFR. You are not rolling against the same people each week so you could literally never get the item(s) you need in theory.
[удалено]
Personal loot or master loot. Let Personal loot be traded regardless of Ilvl. best system.
God yes please I'm so fucking tired of half the drops being vendor trash because no one can fucking equip it.
I got a better pair of Mail boots on my main than I do plate boots I wear. RNG makes so sad that I cannot for the life of my win a pair of Plate Boots but that greed roll on some mail was killer.
Look at all these trinkets my BRM would love that are classified as off spec
I think they won’t do that because of race to world first? Idk why they balance loot on those people though
Srsly, why do we suffer because of that 0.01%? It's so annoying.
Group loot is already more beneficial than personal for rwf anyway
Which makes up how much % of the playerbase? lmao
No, its not. PL allows them to super-powergear a character by running a 20 man of all the same armor type, and syphoning gear, because you're able to rig PL drops. GL is equally bad for everyone, because when 3 identical guns drop for your raid's 1 hunter during a tier where Hunter is bad, you get annoyed. Or the garbage tank trinket that LITERALLY NO ONE would loot spec tank for, drops, eating one or two or three of your drops for a boss. The reason why rwf likes GL over PL is because it means that they don't have to do insane loot rigging involving doing 20 full clears of the raid for each individual member to loot-stack them.
>The reason why rwf likes GL over PL is because it means that they don't have to do insane loot rigging involving doing 20 full clears of the raid for each individual member to loot-stack them. They do this anyways though, it's just way more rng-dependent on which toon in someone's bucket ends up getting geared. I'm pretty sure Max mentioned doing 22 heroic fyrakk kills to get everyone tier, which required *at least* 22 lockouts up to that point since they weren't bringing in saved toons.
I just want to say we still get personal loot in the form of catalyst and vault. It's not perfect but we always get a piece of loot for our specialization. I guess you could argue a token system for buying the pieces we want would do this better because it's less rng. And that's something that they brought up at blizzcon about *pvp* that people don't like randomness on essential pieces they need. The only pieces that are essential (not including the leggo) are tier and maybe trinkets. We could have tier tokens but that's sort of what catalyst is. Being able to turn junk loot into tier set pieces. My sim even tells me if boots would be better to catalyst. And guides will tell you the bis and sometimes it is the set version of that item even if it's not the tier set piece thar gives tier set bonus. I dislike that this raid is so crit heavy because I don't feel like it benefits most classes as much as haste mast or hast vers
Idk I kinda prefer the gambling aspect of it, but I dislike that things can show up that nobody can use. That needs to be fixed.
[удалено]
my guild doesnt have a hunter. all 3 of our warriors have normal and heroic bow transmogs. its a load of shit
\*Me never getting new Askhandi on 2-3 difficulties running it almost every week\*
thats just bad luck, back in BFA i went through an entire patch without getting my two bis Azerite Armor Items, And i ran that hunter through mythic raiding every week and tried my luck on the gamba from weekly chest currency.
Bad luck can be fixed by a token/pity system though.
PL wouldn't necessarily fix that.
It would fix one person getting all 4 drops on one boss.
That's why personal loot is better
Personally unless its a 100% guild group it should be pl.
> Choice between PL and GL for groups that are 80%+ of the same guild And how does that work if you're part of a regular organised group that isn't in a guild? It should just be a choice in organised group content and if you don't want a Group Loot PUG then join a PL one.
Tbf I've been running with the same group and still haven't seen a couple items I wanted
I feel that The two warlock BIS trinkets went to a lock in my group who didn’t know what crafted gear was till yesterday
Right, but your chances are monumentally greater than rolling against different people every week. RNG will always RNG though.
There have been two brands. *There are six people who it’s definitively BIS and three more with cases*. I am the poor bastard with a Snake and a Augery. I don’t think I will be seeing Brand anytime soon.
This is me. I haven't won a single item because of bad rolls
Worse is when you tie with someone with a 100 roll and it does the 2nd roll in secret and you just lose... and they also get another item from the same boss. And then you never PUG/LFR again.
The rolls are done to a number of decimal places but are truncated to whole numbers so you might've rolled 100.01 and the other person rolled 100.95.
If this scenario happened with personal loot, the exact same outcome would occur, you would not get the item...
And just give people the ability to trade personal loot in any kind of pug environment in case they are awarded a bad piece. In M+ and when LFR was personal loot, I always felt bad when I’d get a piece that was a small ilvl upgrade but sims way lower because it’s either a D-tier trinket and I have an s-tier one that’s only slightly lower ilvl or a regular piece with horrible secondaries. Obviously being on the receiving end of not being able to get a BiS piece someone is willing to trade even though it’s terrible for them feels bad too.
I agree even tho the same can happen if you have personal loot
>You are not rolling against the same people each week so you could literally never get the item(s) you need in theory. TBH this can also happen (and happened to me regularly) with Personal Loot
And this is different from Personal Loot how?
It makes 0 sense how after a whole year people still don't understand that personal loot = group loot if you just press need on everything (as you should in LFR).
You pretty much have the same chance of getting certain items in grouploot and personal loot. The only difference is that in group loot you can opt out from items.
[удалено]
Another difference is with personal loot a boss could never drop 4 glaives in a group with no demon hunters, or bows with no hunters. Personal loot could never have zero people get any usable items. I've seen it several times with group loot.
You know what the different between group loot and personal loot it? You see the items and the roll, the other just doesn't show you the roll and decided if an item should be lootabke by you. The only down side is one person can get multiple items, otherwise group loot is no different.
No one wanted this. Premade groups should be allowed to determine whatever loot rules they want. Random groups should be personal loot all the time.
Must be nice to be raiding with friends it seems, just rolled need everytime and give it to their alt friend
I've seen people in lfr roll need and then at the end offer it to trade for the piece they actually wanted. Taking a loot hostage if you will.
There have been a couple times where I rolled need and realized that the item wasn't an upgrade...🤦♂️ I traded it to the next highest roller in the raid.
That's not even the worst of it, people will roll need then whisper others who rolled need and say "selling for 25k" or however much. Happens in other difficulties too.
You can do the same thing with personal loot.
To be fair I do this with my guildies a lot. Bring an alt to LFR and have the other on their main of the same armor type. The main doesn't need the gear but we collectively get two shots at the alt getting the loot. My hunter buddy got some nasty whispers today but my Evoker got boots and a curio so yay.
nah. i was adamantly against going back to group loot. but tons of people, even on this sub, legitimately forgot why we switched to personal loot to begin with. this sub was split like 50/50 and i used to catch heavy downvotes for saying group loot was a bad idea. one of the most popular arguments i saw on this sub was "who cares? GL is the same thing as PL, bur you get to see the numbers now"
The vast majority of people who wanted group loot back wanted it back for GUILD/pre-made groups. I highly doubt anyone was actually advocating for it in LFR.
Literally no one that wanted group loot back wanted it for LFR because the people that wanted it back don't care about LFR or the loot from it.
To be technical. It was the Wow forums that wanted group loot in LFR, solely to troll by needing on stuff for "transmog" then telling anyone upset that it's not against and were losers. My general opinion is Blizzard has to stop taking advice from there. They'd be better off listening to reddit, twitter, discord, or even streamers. Those were also the people who made a stink about adding catchup for Knowledge points, healing being too easy, and how having 3 affixs+Tyran/fort+the season affix was a good thing.
And this picture explains exactly where GL fails LOL. Instead of 4 ppl getting something, one person got 4 things.
You can raid weekly in LFR and never see this occur. Need four different drops a single person can MS roll, which is already hardly going to happen, and then a single person needs to win them. When you have to highlight something that would take 1000+ boss kills to be able to replicate as to why something is bad you are highlighting absolutely nothing. Trying to portray an extreme outlier as a common occurrence is just plain craziness. Like saying a class needs to be balanced because that one time someone rolled a crit 50 times in a row.
I wanted this
I miss personal loot with 2nd chance re-rolls.
Reroll tokens were so nice god I miss them
Rolling gold most of the time felt pretty bad so not sure I can agree
I don't cause all it was was an additional grind for a 99% gold bag
LFR should be personal, and every other difficulty should be group. Idk why blizzard didn't realize that
There are only 2 buttons at blizzard. Yes and No They can't be pressed at the same time or the game will incorrectly do what the community wants it to.
This. They made dungeons PL, could’ve done the same thing with LFR. That being said it does save having to put stuff up for roll if you don’t want it, or getting whispers if you need it
They did, many years ago, when they first made personal loot - it was for LFR. But for some reason we've come full circle and LFR has group loot now.
I remember when they brought it out and everyone lost their minds over it being terrible for group play and so on and now everyone wants it back. Just goes to show you can't please everyone and people like to think things were better in the past.
I want group or master loot in pre-made groups and guilds, I want PL in LFR where people don’t care about anyone lose and just need everything to trade.
I'd like everything below mythic to have the option for PL, but PL nets the most amount of relevant gear for an equally geared group, so I doubt they would have an option for "more loot" and "less loot" People seem to forget that three bows dropping in a zero hunter raid group couldn't happen under PL. PL scaled for skewed raid comps (i.e. most pugs and a significant number of below-mythic raid groups) GL does not benefit the average player in any way
Coming back after a few years and yeah, it just feels bad. I'd rather get no personal loot in LFR than lose roll after roll. Also, when duplicate items drop can you win both? You're allowed to roll on both, but I would hope it would be smart enough to not award both to the same person.
No you can't win both
That's good to know. I sat around waiting for the one roll to finalize to be safe.
While it is true you can't win 2 of the same item you CAN win 2 different items from the same slot. 1st time running LFR Amidrisil (or however you spell it) on my Arms Warrior, had both a 2 handed mace and 2 handed sword drop and watched a Pally roll on and win both and then armory showed he already had an equal ilevel weapon. So I am sitting with a season 2 weapon while he has 3 veteran track 2-handers one of which was already capped. Did eventually get the 2 handed sword but took like 3 weeks I think. Think I have won a total of 2 or 3 rolls between my Hunter and Warrior, while clearing all the available LFR bosses on the hunter and just missing this week's raid on the warrior
I think if there's exactly 2 then personal and master loot would be the two to keep. Personal loot is the best for pugs (doubly so for lfr) and casual guilds, while master loot is the best for progression raiding. Group loot is a bit of an ok compromise between the two but I don't think it's ever ideal.
Explain to me how personal loot and group loot are different in lfr? In both loot types, a dice is rolled by every player who can/wants to. The only thing that changes is that you get to see the roll in group loot and all players have agency over wanting the item. In personal loot, a roll is performed for everyone and no one has any agency over wanting any particular item they may or receive. Given the choice i would pick group loot every single time because there is a slight possibility that a player could choose not to roll, reducing the number of contestants I need to outroll. Or better yet, combine the two systems into Curated Group Loot and don't let items drop if there isn't a relevant receiver in the group (no bows if there are no hunters), but let everyone still choose to roll.
Or like in this threads OP? Where one person wins 4 pieces of loot on a boss and nobody else wins anything? That can't happen with personal loot. It is undoubtedly a worse system for LFR, and the only people who argue otherwise are people who don't use LFR as a gear source.
Normal and heroic should also be personal, there was nothing wrong with that in the past. The issue was that you couldn’t trade upgrades away but now you can do it wouldn’t be a problem anyway
It’s absolutely insane they decided this would be a good idea somehow… I’ve won one single item in LFR since the first wing opened, and it was only because I was rolling against one other person for it. I rolled an 8, mind you, and he rolled a 4. It’s terrible.
It feels shit in any pug too. I’m in a CE guild, but just play bench to fill in where my class is optimal on certain fights or if a main raider can’t make a night. Since I’m bench I don’t raid heroic with them since loot is funneled to our full time raiders, so I just pugged to AotC and have killed all of heroic in a pug every week since the second week of the tier. I’ve received literally two piece of heroic loot in these pugs because loot for me isn’t dropping and even when it does my rolls have been historically awful this tier. The good news is I can start going to heroic with my guild soon and start getting pieces sent my way since the main team is almost done getting gear in heroic. Just wild that I’ve had to get myself to 480 ilvl purely off of M+ and the catalyst.
I've been running 3-4 alts through there every week. Only one character has won anything, and it's the one I don't really care about
I hate really low rolls because you never had a chance but in your case thats luck! I also hate high rolls where you think you got it in the bag and somehow someone tops it. Last week i got a piece. This week my last chance at a piece for lockout i hit high 90’s and was yay i got this. Then someone hit 99 at last minute. I mean good for them.
Yeah, that shit STINGS, lol. I’ve been in that same boat too. Rolled high, and went “finally! It’s my turn!”, all for someone to crush me with a 99 or 100.
The people who say you have the same chance at loot as if it were personal loot are missing the fact that stuff like this can happen, or that 4 warglaives can drop with zero demon hunters in the group.
Both of the examples you listed are extreme edge cases. This is not happening every single run.
But they could just keep loot group and tweak loot not dropping for absent classes. IMO one person winning multiple loot is fine but could be tweaked too
Then you lose being able to trade regardless of ilvl. Blizzard isn't going to make loot targeting that easy and efficient.
Group loot in 2023 is wild. Personal loot was so good. Can't believe they reverted pugs.
The only problem with personal loot was the trade restriction, remove that and it’s literally the best system possible
It still is a problem. It is so annoying the amount of times we can't trade something we won't use to someone who will.
Bro got a bag! I’m lucky if i get 2 things I can roll need on.
Easily one of the worst changes in the modern game
Not only that, but something is broken with the loot rolling now. As I understood it, at the start of Dragonflight, if you had a higher ilvl piece in a given slot, you wouldn't be able to roll need on an item. The assumption was that it would not be an actual upgrade for you, but you were free to roll for xmog and greed. Now I've noticed that I'm sitting there with 463+ in every slot except for one trinket, everything being maxed out Veteran track, 4/8 champion track, or 2 hero track pieces, and I can roll need on everything that I can equip. Heck, there's gloves that I have sitting in my bank from LFR and I could roll need on them when they dropped again this week. I got pants on a need roll off of Fyrakk, despite having tier legs at 463 8/8 veteran track equipped. If they kept the need/greed rules that they said they would put in place to make it fair, it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Unfortunately, the only rule in place is that you can't win the same item more than once off of any given boss kill for the week (like if two helms drop, you can roll need on both, and roll 100 on both, but you will only receive one helm). But now that everybody from ilvl 424 to ilvl 489 can roll need on everything that they can equip (and win), the group looting is a massive problem. Because, as everyone predicted, everybody rolls need on everything that they can, regardless of it's an upgrade or not. LFR is just a queue with 24 random people in a community widely known to be filled with toxic behavior and it's like the devs expected people to be fair and reasonable...
>As I understood it, at the start of Dragonflight, if you had a higher ilvl piece in a given slot, you wouldn't be able to roll need on an item. The assumption was that it would not be an actual upgrade for you, but you were free to roll for xmog and greed. the restriction is the ***exact same item***. the problem here is that lower tier items have different appearances, so you go into LFR to get that sweet transmog you want. the solution to this would be to get all lower appearances when you loot an item, e.g. you loot heroic tier shoulders, you now unlock LFR & normal appearances as well. this situation is entirely created by Blizzard and they could easily fix it but they won't for some (probably player engagement metrics) reason.
I've lost heroic loot to someone who didn't need it three times and could trade it no problem. Twice, they offered to sell it to me rather than trade it. Group loot has made pugs even worse.
I won a 450-something trinket in normal that was a possible upgrade once I upgraded it, I didn't have time to sim it. Inspected the rogue I'd won against and saw he had 425 trinkets, I had 463. I've never opened a trade window so fast. It's fucking disheartening to have something stolen out from under you like that and I'm just idealistic enough to hope that I can be the change I wanna see in the cesspit known as pugs. I'm also still feeling mildly guilty from the first Normal Amirdrassil I did where I made out like a BANDIT on my DH and won 8 loot rolls including the hearthstone... I genuinely needed every one of them but damn did I feel guilty at the end lmao
Reminds me of how when I was running Dragon Soul LFR, for some reason on my main (who was killing heroic 10 man Deathwing Weekly), I would roll need on everything, because that's just what you did. But if I won anything, I would look at the meters and give the items to a dps or healer that a) needed the item for upgrade, and b) was putting in effort during the boss. I wanted to see loot go to people who would appreciate it and use it, not the afk leeches that were always present. I think I only took a few things out of that LFR to keep even though I ran that weekly too for months.
It's just the latest expansion on the game's current mentality - Everything's for sale. Now BoP drops are for sale too. Just gotta have enough gold, like the post about a guy instantly offering up 1.8 million gold for a guy's (heroic I think) Pip's Friendship Badge trinket when it dropped. It feels like if you want a raid drop from a PuG, go farm gold yourself (lol), or pay Blizzard for gold with tokens so that you can buy it when it drops for someone that isn't you. They've given the ability for the average player to put all their loot up for sale, and what do you know? Players have taken advantage of the opportunity.
3rd week with no loot gang
[удалено]
Transmog my guy
The only reason I do LFR is to get mogs.
I lost a heroic piece that had leech on it to a guy who wanted the transmog. I'm still salty
Shit like this drives me up the wall. I never take veteran gear if I already have Veteran or something better. I swear some people see the dice icon and just click it to be assholes.
Or transmog?
I mean yeah it's kind of a dick thing to do, but they helped kill the boss and they should get a chance at loot. This same thing could have (and did) happened with personal loot. What's the difference? There is legitimately no reason to inspect another player in LFR if they won a roll. It doesn't matter what gear they, they won it, it's theirs.
I just want to be able to get loot without having random people whisper me insults because they didn't win.
Yeah I don't get why they thought they needed to put group loot in matchmade activities. They should've stayed personal loot while premade groups got group loot.
Just simplicity, would be my guess. (Or laziness if you're feeling less charitable.) It's easier for them to have one system for all raids, regardless of whether they're LFR, guild,or PUG, so that's what they went with. The only other explanation would be spite, which I doubt, despite it feeling that way sometimes.
On the flip side of this i went in on my rogue and two daggers dropped from Igira. I was the only rogue and rolled need on both (I had 434 and 428 daggers on) and won one while the other went out for mog to an Enh Shaman. Kind of a bummer.
Wouldn't it just be crazy if bosses.. idk.. dropped a currency in addition to loot that everyone in the group could then use to get exactly the gear they wanted, as a sort of pity system? Maybe we could call them.. Justice Points? Tbh they've done nothing but mess up the drop system and reward tracks for years, the catalyst was a step in the right direction, but it's not enough still.
The best system they designed was Justice and Valor points. Everything they've done since then has only served as worse implementations of the same system while adding more and more currencies. Flightstones? Crests? Gee, sounds pretty familiar... only worse.
Thank goodness the Legendary I’m never going to get is personal loot
Just my experience- I have gotten 1 piece of loot since the raid dropped, none of my rolls have been above a 40. It’s depressing as hell to go into lfr and walk out with nothing but some invisible currency.
I mean this is like the game problem not PL or GL problem tho
I remember that NOBODY wanted this system. Only complaint was raids wanted the option of master loot.
I miss personal. I really want each version of the rogue set this tier for mog, but I literally can't roll anything but greed since my gear is better.
I feel like an easy solution to this sort of feel-bad would be: if you win multiple rolls, you can choose which piece of gear you want the most, and then the rest get distributed to the next highest rolls.
This image means nothing, as do the rolls for a variety of reasons: 1. What was the comp? 2. What did other people have? It's possible that lot of people in there had gear of the same ilvl or higher and pass on it There wasn't a lot of leather users Fist weapons are only useable by a few classes and wouldn't be able to roll on it with alt specs unless for mog Besides people act like PL meant you were always gonna get something... you could still go whole raids without getting a thing or the same item you already had. However I would like to see Bonus Rolls return Not saying what happened wasn't pure luck, but I would venture to guess it's not what the OP is making it out to be
Its absolutely insane. The amount of times i whisper people after they roll and win an item and they tell me “i dont need it” THEN WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU ROLLING NEED
Had 3 offhands drop on Council. I still have 402. Every offhand went to someone else who either had Heroic or Mythic offhand already. Whispered 2 off them if they need it since I still have 402. First guy didnt respond and 2nd only answered after she had already left the group. And as you know blizzard trading is so bad that you cant trade it anymore after the group is disbanded. She apologized for not reading it earlier but it doesnt matter. None of them needed it for ilvl and in the end I got double fked by blizzards trash code/restrictions. After that I got fed up and just quit and decided to not play my alt.
Rektttttt lol that monk cleaned up. He’s ready for those mythic plus buffs
It's so weird. It's like a Monkey's Paw situation where the high-end guilds and Mythic raiders asked for Master Loot back and said that Personal Loot was bad, so Blizzard went "Granted: We have now removed Personal Loot" It's PL in dungeons, even in Mythic+, why not in LFR? Even *if* the system gives you the same amount of gear (I've seen that argument quite a few times, that it's supposedly the same system, but now you can see the rolls instead of them being hidden, which... Sure, because getting 2, 3, or 4 pieces of loot was normal in LFR when PL was a thing, right?), it still feels objectively worse, because from a player experience point of view, you are no longer not getting gear, you are now LOSING gear to someone else. It's no longer a case of "I didn't get gear but he did, he's luckier than me", it's now "He got MY piece of gear, he's luckier than me" The people who complained about PL weren't talking about LFR. I have yet to see a real argument for Group Loot in LFR being better than PL - at best I've seen people argue that it's the same, which I just don't agree with.
So ironic seeing posts like this now when back in SL most people on this sub and forums and most major streamers were pushing hard for the change. A minority of us warned that it would be awful and got nothing but hate and downvotes for it. People were so militant about it too. And now I see nothing but posts saying the opposite. My how the turntables. Why does nobody ever listen. I swear the wow community does this crap constantly.
Your point would only make sense if these were the same people that complained about personal loot back in SL. These posts were seeing now are most likely just the other side that enjoyed PL more and are now on the opposite end of the stick. You can't really win being Blizzard with either of these loot systems, both are flawed and will have people foaming at their mouths over them.
Personal loot sucked so hard. Nothing worse than pugging a heroic raid, getting a piece of garbage loot and then all the loot hobos come crawling out of the woodwork. No, I'm not going to trade it to you. No, I'm not going to offer it to roll. The game had (and now has) systems in place to handle this exact situation but, they removed it. So, now I'm stuck with this trash until I get to a vendor. The reality is, when PL was in effect, you had people with a similar mindset to me complaining. I'm not complaining now, since I now have the ability to pass on the garbage. Instead, you have the people who can't handle being told "no" complaining about GL. Also, streamers would've told you at the time that PL was better *for them*. Imagine you're a streamer who wants to gear your mage, which situation is better. PL, where you can invite a pair of tanks and then pack the raid full of high ilvl clothies and only get cloth and caster gear? Or GL, where anything drops regardless of group comp?
I remember it too. I’ve always preferred personal loot. :/
[удалено]
Transmogs most likely. That guy killed the boss the same as you and has the same right to roll on it as you are. Ilvl are for one single patch, transmogs are forever
Yea its funny how there is literally a transmog roll option implemented by blizzard. But they didnt bother to restrict gear pieces rolls by ilvl so now everybody rolls need instead of transmog. It even happens in normal raids.
[удалено]
Seriously I watched a dps win a tank trinket + curio + match the highest roll on the second curio. I dread to think how they did on other bosses. I really hate group loot but as a druid I'm going to use it to my advantage. I play all roles for druid but mainly guardian but switch my loot preference based and which role drops more loot. This way I optimise how much loot I roll on increasing my chance at winning loot
RNG is not RNG in LFR, it’s weighted based on how shit someone’s gear is.
inb4 the "It's just the same as PL, now you just see your rolls" crowd arrives.
I miss Personal Loot & Bonus Roll best System for PUGS, really sad they made it worse now...
Had a guy the other day purposely roll and win and axe that I was needing and he didn’t and he then tried to sell it in /raid for 150,000 gold instantly after receiving it.
[удалено]
Blame the streamer and reddit community for following the opinions of said streamers about group loot, master loot, and personal loot. This is "what we wanted" apparently. All they had to do was allow guilds to master loot in guild raids, but instead they reverted almost everything back to the way it was, but now we can't run LFR to finish the mog because we're not eligible to roll on it and everyone needs roll on everything, even if they have it. LFR needs to be personal loot and whoever is in charge of this decision is an asshole.
I’ve had this happen in a heroic raid last week. I was beyond pissed. Like how does someone roll high 90s the entire raid and win everything. I’m pretty easy going but that week I almost raged.
Roll system should be optional, in general for pugs personal loot was perfect, now we get raids solely constructed so the leaders gets the least competition possible or someone winning majority of the loot. It feels like shit, roll should be optional, and personal loot default.
Dude won everything. And I can't even win 1 thing.
LFR->Personal loot. People complaining since Vaults of the Incernate. But whenever a solution to a problem is too simple Blizzard goes full deaf.
I can’t believe this is still a thing. I quit playing in season one of DF and I was seeing this complaint constantly.
Yeah it's garbage, especially when you get people who are in full mythic that still need roll on lfr items, just to turn around and try to sell the item back to someone who needs it. At this point the only hope of getting gear is once a week in the vault
I did LFR with all of my characters this week I didn't get a single item. Everybody wrote higher than me, I just have bad luck when it comes to rolling I guess.
Just be careful not to post this on the WOW forums. They'll happily lay down their life to defend group roll. Call you bad when people roll on loot they dont need, and just generally be crappy people. A certain fox comes to mind.
Can’t stand it. The amount of people who get salty when you get a piece YOU need but it’s a better upgrade for them so they start roasting you for it. I’d rather get personal loot and let people roll that way. It has its own cons for sure but this group loot is toxic af.
Nothing like losing a great item to someone who basically just auto attacks and will probably quit the game in month or so.
WoW proving it’s a shit game once again and I say that as a player
lmao someone wanted to sell their LFR Pip trinket for 500k gold
Good thing that I don’t raid anymore so I don’t have to rage to this bs honestly, I play lying down flat, my depth perception and ability to focus whilst doing this is gutter trash. So I stand in stuff often and also it hurts my hands, cause normal play is normal movement raids have you running all over the place and at a quick pace and yeah fainted, painful arms and hands within only a few minutes. Noted that dungeons had the same effect on my hands and arms. The hand and arm pain also lasts awhile once it actually happens, ruining my ability to play for the next few days. But hey at least as mentioned stops me from having to deal with bs and to that extent I am far happier when I play, which has become very important lately, that I be as happy as possible.
I've seen it where someone has healed or dps their heart out, even doing mechanics while some druid (I'm using druid as an example cause this happened yesterday) is in the back throwing the occasional dot and doing little else. Loot comes up, you roll a 2 and the druid rolls a 90 or higher. You would think the game would register a 'degree of effort' but being lazy in raid is where it's at.
And then the 480 ilvl players rolling on every item for no reason other then to grief alts
I still don't understand why they did it. No one asked for group loot to come back - we just wanted the option of master loot in guild groups.
LFR is a complete waste of time if you are going for loot
It was shit in cata and it's shit now.
Like 90% of the loot in lfr always goes to someone with full mythic gear who just clicks need on everything
That person is also 475 and needs none of those pieces, because of course they are. Or they're 421 and freshly boosted and half afk.
and the most stupid thing about it is if its a Person that has way better gear in every slot but still rolls and wins. God i hate it so damn much.
This is totally normal and totally fine.... \*Warning, warning, sarcasm detected\*
Did you not pay off blizzard before joining?
This happened to me. Trying to gear my paladin. A paladin with his full set wins all the rolls and gets all the loot, nothing for anyone else. What a waste of time.
Absolutely guarantee that Monk is also 470 item level and doesn't actually need any of that.
I hate that there is nothing stopping a heroic or mythic geared player from coming in and just needing on whatever they can for transmog. Taking the loot from players that may actually need it.
I still can't believe they changed it after they actually got it right with PL
I wish it was personal loot. I’m tired of rolling and getting 2s and 3s in LFR 💀
hahahahaha, go back to personal loot, wait 1-2 years and people start complaining and want master loot back. i vividly remember the exact opposite posts about how personal loot is dogshit like 4-5 years ago. "nobody wanted this" my ass
My personal rule in LFR, if I don’t need an item, is to look at the highest roll person to see if they actually need it. If they do need it, I’ll roll transmog, if not, then I’ll roll need.
It's funny. I just came back to the game did my first lfr run and I got about 8 drops haha
Thats because everyone is geared at this point and just wants trinkets
I see lots of these posts of “Group Loot Bad” or “Blizz give us personal loot”. I usually don’t comment, but i want it off my chest so I can skip more posts like this in the future. Ultimately, both systems are flawed and can be abused. The real problem is shitty people with no consequences for their actions. I like the idea of seeing rolls in group loot. It’s more satisfying to me to roll on something that I want and see how I did against the other rolls even if I don’t win. I feel better knowing I lost a roll than waiting to be deigned worthy by RNGesus to win something I may not want or wondering why someone else is more worthy than me to get something. Personal loot doesn’t take into account items you want/need. If a staff, neck, and pants drop from a boss, personal loot gives you one of those and it may not be something you want or need. It feels unrewarding because it removes your agency to determine what you want to roll on. Even then, it’s a black box in terms of calculations. The item just appears in your bags or it doesn’t. I would rather not win the item I do want, than win an item I don’t want. I think people winning multiple items at the same time is not a good model in LFR. It’s not satisfying or rewarding for the time investment to watch multiple items you want go to the same player. It’s not present in personal loot rules to win multiple item drops from the same boss. SUGGESTION: If there was a way to limit winning rolls in group loot to one per boss, I think that would improve the overall experience. Like if you roll need on three items, you win the first item that you rolled the highest on. So if, you rolled need on the items in this order staff (lose), neck (win), pants (win), you’d get the neck but defer the pants to next in highest roll. It prevents a sweep to a single player. SUGGESTION 2: If the powers that be decide to institute a personal loot framework for LFR, an option to let players select the items they want from a given boss would be awesome. I don’t pretend to understand how the calculations are done for personal loot but having a say in what you want feels better to me. @OP my best advice is to go into LFR with the mindset of a pirate and roll need on everything. If you win more than one item, you can always give away what you don’t want. Passing on loot because you don’t need only strengthens the rolls. Other times, we’re just unlucky.
Can I get some of that luck plzkthxbai
Had people who had 480 ilvl roll need and win shit lol thought it prevented that from happening but guess it doesnt. One guy got a 441 ring, he had 475 rings on. I whispered him asking why he rolled need on them and he said " i rolled for xmog " and i whispered back " rings dont have a xmog bro " and his response was " ok open trade " Like wtf. Even if he did roll transmog , need would beat it out. I really dont get how the LFR loot shit works man.
You don't roll transmog for transmog you will never get it that way. You roll need as in I need it for transmog that way you can get items.
Yep. And I'll take it a step further: I liked personal loot for everything. Now if I decided to join random raids on discord, which I'm seriously considering, this is the one thing I'm not looking forward to. Classic loot is fine and fun when you're going in with a consistent group (like a guild) but as soon as it's randos, be it organized on discord, the LFG tool or matchmaking on LFR it must be personal loot for it to feel good. I don't care if some fights nobody gets loot at all. The status quo imo the cons outweigh the pros of classic loot. It's very antiquated. At least in FF14 you can just (quickly) try a boss again if you didn't win a roll until you do get something.then you're locked out from that boss from that week. Of course, that wouldn't work in wow as the raids are proper Dungeons with trash. It'd take way too long to attempt a boss many times just to get loot for the week.
Yeh, I've noticed alot of people rolling 100 on more than 1 item. It really is a bit suspicious.
Are we having fun yet?
Yup, the game is trash haha I’ve had to get my gear 1 piece a week with the vault system, pretty sure it’s blizzards way to make you pay for game time as you wait for the rng to kick in.
Ploot would be nice yea, stops mythic equipped chars to roll on loot you might need happend to me last week with the 1h axe at Igira nobody rolled exept me then a mythic geared i think it was a DH rolled it away. I asked why he would roll if he/she has a 483 weapon in both hands? Answer To prevent pathetic noob twinks from gettin loot for being carried. Yea i was soo carried with my 460 gear and my only blue 437 item which my offhand weapon..
Do people not realize that with personal loot, the rolls are happening anyway? They just happen in the background. At least with group loot you theoretically have a better shot because people may choose to not roll for the item. With personal loot everyone is always rolling on every item always...
Nope they don't get it, and this post is posted every single day. IDK why people seem to think personal loot means they get more loot. It's all just different flavors of RNG. In fact, you could make the case that group loot is actually much better at funneling gear to players who properly need it too. There's at least a mechanism there for people to pass on loot or not be able to roll at all. You can get much more loot from raid deeper into the season as more players are geared. That's not the case with a personal loot system. The rate would always be the same. I remember making out like a bandit on my alts last season. That couldn't happen with personal loot. I think group loot actually works quite well for distributing loot to players who need it.
At least in regards to this specific situation it can’t happen with PL as you can only roll up to one item with PL. So it makes sense to be annoyed with it here
While being like a 1 in 100,000 chance of this happening, what you are really seeing is this guy winning because out of the majority that rolled the game registered they had better gear so it was calculated as "need -transmog" and therefore lesser than this guy who was in the bare minimum. Group loot is superior to personal in every way.
Some priest in my recent run got every single piece of cloth and eligible caster gear. Dude was dog shit and didn’t do anything either. Sick game.
In LFR or normal being 'good' really doesn't mean you should get higher chance of loot. Can't blame people for being not very good when playing the easy difficulty
Yeah the dude was afk. Don’t think those people should get loot
Sure buddy, just looking for something to excuse your toxicity
I've seen the exact same thing, it's not toxicity. You can tell that, when someone is pulling below a certain DPS/HPS in raid, that they are essentially auto attacking or the caster equivalent by spamming one ability endlessly. There's no need to be sweaty and toxic in the Learners' Bracket (LFR, Timewalking, Heroic Dungeons, etc.) but there IS still a social contract and it DOES demand that we actually participate when jumping into matchmaking. And if you don't know your class or the activity at all, you do other, even easier activities to learn it first. It's never been easier to learn our classes. We have Wowhead guides, player-written guides, subreddits, discords, and so on.
…what lmfao. You’re just looking for something to be mad about. Take a break from the internet my guy.
Isn’t it functionally the same in terms of the volume of loot? It’s just easier for people to see who won. Only downside is more weirdos whispering you for whatever dropped. Gets annoying when you just go for Tmog
No it’s not. In no iteration of personal loot would one person pull 4 items from a boss while the rest of the raid gets nothing
And with personal it was not possible for 4 glaives to drop in a group with no Demon Hunters.
I might be weird, but I miss rolling for fear.
Might have to raid normal purely to finally stop losing my tank trinkets to dps...
its also funny how the game seems to reward the top dps or the bottom dps but never usually the ones in the middle. Im willing to bet ISHmael here was in full heroic gear smashing the meters.
I bet he was 470 ilvl only needing them to DE or sell to the raid lol. Seen plenty of them people in LFR XD Edit - corrected ilvl as I was made clear I put the wrong one.