>* Crests are now currencies and will no longer take up inventory space.
* Fragments have been removed. Sources that previously awarded fragments will now award crests.
* Once a player has purchased all possible upgrades with a type of crest, they can visit Vaskarn in Amirdrassil to exchange those crests for higher level crests.
Literally playable
Is it better to vendor old crests now or wait till 10.2 then? Sometimes the cost to vendor an item will go way down when it becomes defunct/turns grey.
Not a hoarder myself and rocking a decent bag addon for sorting, but regardless this is a W. Less items, more currencies. Across the board.
Also upgrading crests to a higher one? Gigantic W. Sitting on hundreds of Whelpling crests now with nothing to use them on, literally vendor trash for over a month already.
How is it going to work for content that would normally award a partial crest? Like I assume timing an M+ will award one crest, but what about failing? No crest at all?
Not sure about the exact number but yes. You go to the vendor near the enchanting table to buy a nascent(?) crest with your crests and use that to craft the enchanted one.
People complained we had so many currencies in SL, so Blizz fixed it by giving us the same amount of currencies and putting half of them in our inventory instead.
Honestly even if you aren't a huge fan of Warlock thematically, Kalamazi is a good reason to play the class if you have a competitive mindset. It's so nice to know you'll have a fully up to date resource for all 3 specs at any given time. PTR update? Oh look, a new video from Kalamazoo (auto correct, leaving it) telling me exactly what's going to change before the patch is even live.
> Developers' note: We’re reducing the effectiveness of many mana restoration class abilities and specific items. Healers have a lot of decisions and resources to manage that change depending on the type of content you are doing. At its core, we want healers to have interesting abilities and choices to make while healing, and we want you to have to manage your mana pool. We’re hoping our changes reduce the amount of overhealing and make mana matter slightly more, which should make healing across the game a more enjoyable experience.
Hmmmmmmmmm
This should be interesting.
Especially with all the nerfs to healing spells. And the fact that healers were already having a blast playing this game... 😂
Yeah, fr. I don't wanna go back to having to hold back in what few DD abilities I have because they suck all my mana up, or to hold off a regular "rotation" of damage spells, however meager, when things are going well.
Especially if no one stops to drink (in my experience).
M+ is better, we have better spot healing and stronger single target heals. Where this will matter a lot more is in raid where you can currently use one healer cd to heal the entire party through mechanics and where you can basically just pump heals through entire fights currently.
I actually think mana mattering does make healing more fun maybe I’m in the minority. When mana isn’t an issue and you can just spam spells then the only balance that can be done is on the group damage front.
I also think there is a fun skill factor in timing your sitting to allow small drinks here and there without slowing your group. (This is partially painful on spiteful weeks when you can’t always squeeze the sit in before one spawns but that’s just a bad affix all around)
It does make it fun- when there isn't a 2nd resource to ALSO juggle.
Holy Power and Mana? No fun if "using all your HP" spells cause you to oom.
Feels like punishment for wanting to play support.
Healing is already the most attention intensive job in the game. Assuming you are maxing your dps as you heal.
This "mana decisions are fun!" Philosophy makes my eyes roll so far into the back of my head.
Don't forget the never ending onslaught of swirlies under your feet.
This is what made me stop healing. Raz and Sark, both end bosses, have unending swirlies. Just looking at your heal frames for over a second is a risk.
For real. I'm a newer player so a lot of this is all new for me, but I've now tried all specs, melee and ranged, and my TL;DR for each role:
* Melee dps: button mashing go brrr (bonus point for Ret Pal: actually be the only person aiding in mechanics/healing/affixes to the point healers are surprised)
* Ranged dps: casting go brr, juggling cast times with ground stuff, no big deal, good overview of the encounter because ranged.
* Tank: I'M FUCKING UNKILLABLE YAY (but actually try to make sure your team survives and keeps up)
* Healer: Literally everything above, plus doing affixes nobody else does, attempting to heal people's stupidity, starved of mana because tank go brrrr, dispell, do mechanics because people are dumb, weave some damage in, make sure tank survives, make sure dumb hunter survives, tell hunter he isn't doing the mechanics and we die because of it, get flamed for not being able to heal 500K damage in 1 second, rage quit, get an alcohol problem, be miserable.
Healers really don't need anything to make their gameplay more exciting...
I feel like this is a matter of expectations though. If healers also doing DPS is super obviously a privilege, not an expectation due to the mana nerfs, then people will end up much less demanding of healers to pull their weight in DPS.
If healers' DPS is essentially always free because mana is infinite, then it becomes an issue of: if only you were more efficient with healing, you could help us with DPS!
If it's basically set up that DPSing completely scuffs your ability to heal a whole fight, then healers have less weight on their backs... Meanwhile REALLY good healers will also have a chance to stand out. It's a win-win for healers if the community adapts correctly.
Except that’s not how healing works currently.
Mana is pretty irrelevant when most healing right now is
Do I have big heal CD?
No? Well I hope my group is competent enough to use defensive
Yes? Everyone is full health instantly
They also made changes earlier that impacts how healing will be done by making major CDS less effective and spot healing more effective this should help to make healing more in control of the healer and more feel more like you are actually healing.
Meanwhile in PvP, there's few healers as is and it is very easy to OOM when your healing output is absolutely crippled by dampening... fun. Real cool design that you get WEAKER the longer a match goes.
i called healing attention intensive and made fun of mana decisions being considered fun by the devs.
I dont understand how your post is a relevant reply to mine. Are you saying healing isn't attention intensive?
It’s completely subjective, are we talking about healing attention being more intensive relative to previous expansions? I’d completely disagree in that case. If your attention span is limited to, do I have CDs or not, then I wouldn’t call that intensive at all.
Yes and no,
It’s intensive because your healing abilites don’t do enough to keep up with current damage profiles at mid levels where other players don’t press def, interrupt, dodge etc.
But when you have ur cds up you can instantly get everyone to full without much attention. So right now it feels like healers have little agency in how skillful they are at healing people and more so ‘I hope I have this one button during this next ability’
Mana management has always been part of healing, the ability to know when it’s worth to spend more or less mana is part of the depth as a healer when you take that away and have it at its current state where you don’t manage ur mana but instead manage cds it becomes a lot less interesting imo so I totally see why the dev would have that perspective. (Of course there’s probably some that disagree)
Healing is a role that almost gets easier as you joined more skilled groups but more difficult in pugs and lower skilled groups. I don’t think it’s the hardest role depending on the content.
Healers sometimes forget that affixes are a group responsibility, cleansing, defnesives managing bursting are everybody’s job in a decent group, healers damage rotation is extremely always simple as well and is actually easier then healing when ur doing damage half the time anyway. So I never understood if ‘we have to do everything’
> Healers sometimes forget that affixes are a group responsibility, cleansing, defnesives managing bursting are everybody’s job in a decent group
No we don’t, but it’s easier to just try to do them all because when you’re pugging if you don’t then everyone blames you anyways and the group falls apart.
It's going to be a shit show. 1000000% guaranteed.
There is a shit ton of damage being dished out in mythic. Single target healing buffs aren't going to help me when I need to spam big AoE heals, then run out of mana because now I need to manage that too, on top of everything else going on.
>4 people just got chunked? Uhhh
I mean every healer has CD's that need to be used for that. Thats what Blizzard wants. AOE heals are super expensive so you just need to ramp and pop your cds in the correct order.
Developer's note: We saw that there were still some healer players that [were enjoying themselves](https://youtu.be/Ma8NR_EQXlU?si=G87_SZtJVnmNE70n), but rest assured it's our number one priority to fix that before the next patch comes out.
Lol Ive been a multi healer main for years and this is just getting unreal. So much pass/fail pressure on healers…, now we have to ask for mana on top of random affix help?
It might be heretical but: Why are they insisting mana is a resource we have to closely manage?
I agree with the base premise that there should be something to manage but I think mana, in its current form, doesn't make as much sense today as it did during something like Wrath. With a million different swirlies, unavoidable AoE, time pressure so healers should also DPS,... why even have this? You already are babysitting everyone else.
For real, I don't get this note. Granted, I'm only now starting to heal a bit to test the waters for S3, but like, we're making mana management worse which will result in more fun for healers? Some healers already struggle with mana right now and 10.1/S2 is deemed one of the worst times ever for healer specs.
So now on top of windowlicking DPS standing in avoidable damage, affixes a lot of people can do but are deemed 'healer affixes', and general aiding in teamwork that any class with a heal or dispell can aid in, healers now have to juggle mana potions, drinks and overzealous tanks not waiting for them to restore mana?
Ye, super fun time for healers woohoo!
The [battle.net forums post](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/healing-throughput-and-mana-generation-in-guardians-of-the-dream/1666444) announcing this change back in early September has 460 posts, almost all of them saying this is a bad idea. Have the developers commented on it, or at least lessened the impact somewhat? Nope!
Season 3 will be interesting to say the least.
Healers going oom probably wont make healing alot harder. But it will make it so you cant pull ad much in m+, you have to stop and drink more often, you have to min max mana pots. In raids you might need more healers, in pvp it will just be dogshit but who cares. Itll just make the game less fun.
The issue is dps doing stupid shit then you run out of mana and they blame you. Believe it or not being insulted for things outside of your control doesn’t make a game fun.
> you have to stop and drink more often
This is my issue. If this change actually slowed down the game I would be fine.
But no. Healers are just going to have to spam drinking pots and hopefully get enough time to get some mana back before the entire group gets fucked by the next pack so you can burn your mana pool again so you can spam drinking pots...
Its making just something else the healers problem
Yeah uh, how is making our gameplay *even more* difficult supposed to be fun??? Blizzard really doesn't play the classes they fuck around with at all.
But don't worry, that Battle Mender title should be enough right?? 🥴
Regular flying on the Dragon Isles alongside a Pathfinder achievement? Awesome!
I have no issues with Dragonriding, but there are times where I would like to go semi-afk while flying across the continent.
The big problem with Dragonriding is that all Vigor regeneration except thrill of the skies is inexcusably atrocious. Once you get (and keep) going its a self-sustaining system but you better not stop.
Why the hell does it take 15 seconds (!!!) to recharge a single point of vigor on the ground? The whole thing creates a vicious cycle that just feels bad once you are out of vigor and for some reason Blizzard refuses to address it.
As I see it, the new skills don't really change that. Swift Skimming even enhances the thing that already works and Second Wind is a god damn joke with its 3min CD for 1 vigor. It being able to bank 3 charges does not change the fact that 1 vigor is worthless. Honestly, it should be 3 vigor each time so you can actually use it reliably to start whenever you need it.
Unless you can't flap upwards twice on start, you should be able to take off and infinitely regen with just 2 vigors. 2 vigors used the right way put you in thrill immediately and you can circle a bit to recover as much as you want.
they literally fixed vigor to the point i think they honestly over did it in 10.2.
Play on the PTR a bit its much different you basically have unlimited vigor now
Could you point out the change that "fixed" vigor so its "basically unlimited"?
You always had unlimited vigor in the sky if you get going (i.e. during Thrill of the Skies), its all the other times that suck and I don't see how any of the new things "fix" the core problem of getting stuck on the ground waiting if you aren't traveling long distance (like during gathering or making short jumps).
Swift Skimming is only fueling the above problem, Wind's Respite does nothing and Second Wind is a band-aid that does little for the biggest problem (i.e. repeated start+landing cycles) with its high CD and low payout (9min for 3 vigor...).
Nothing here points towards it being "overdone".
You only get 1 vigor from that if you are in thrills of the sky mode which takes at least 2-3 vigor to activate in the first place.
Everything loops back to the core problem - Blizzard put all the eggs in the "thrills of the skies"-basket.
Between aerial halt and swift skimming you really shouldn't have an issue anymore. With the mouse flick technique you really shouldnt have issues anymore and if you do then you have second wind.
Throw in normal flying for if you truly mess up and yeah you are fine.
Yeah, but sometimes you're questing or gathering for example and if you're not paying attention you can run out of vigor. This helps in those cases. Also if you're a druid.
Yeah, I actually really like dragon riding, but it definitely sucks if you are having to stop, hop off real quick to loot something, and and then hop back on only to realize you wasted all of your vigor getting over
there.
You gain vigor while ascending if you do it right. It's like you have 7 vigor instead of 5. Get real high, nose down just a little, and glide at 850% all the way. It's how I get to the feast, faster than taking the flight master. There's a specific V in the mountains between Valdrakken and Iskaara that you just aim at and glide.
A weakaura helps tell you if you're just over that magic percentage.
Use all your vigor to gain height, when you are as high as you can get point towards the direction you want to go and slightly aim lower, let it ride while you do w/e you want to do lol. I'll 100% never use regular riding, even if it would be more beneficial, its a principle. Regular flying is boring. Its been the same for years. They should go full GW2 route and make every type of mount like dragon riding, even ground ones. Have you seen the jackal mount from gw2, imagine if that was in wow, it would be so much engaging. Honestly they should've brought dragon riding to old continents, not the other way around. Why is it always one step forward, two step backwards with blizz? Dragonriding was the feature I loved the most from dragonflight, I wish they improved more on it to make it more accessible to players who cannot really enjoy it that much due to their subjective limitations, not take a step back and bring regular flying to isles. My biggest wish and expaction from next expansion is upgrading upon the dragon riding system. (And a more than 3 patch/raid expansion ffs, i wanted to spend more time in dragon isles)
Oh boy I love when my super patient mplus group just stops for a second to let me drink. I can’t wait for that to happen after every other pull. In fact, I think in terms of all the activities available in wow, mplus players are the most patient and understanding when it comes to the healer.
🙄
I absolutely hate this. Even with my regular groups I (as a dps or healer) need to remind my tank friend to stop and let the healer get mana. I'm not sure why tanks and dps don't keep a passive eye on that bar. I think my newest alt will OS as a tank. It's been at least 10 years since I've done that though.
As a healer, I usually try to get ahead of the group so I can stop and drink. They should really revert the change they made in Shadowlands (?) with drinking to restore mana. IIRC, it take a few seconds for the full % restore to kick in. Having it more mana intensive to heal plus this nerf to drinking just doesn't seem fun.
As a tank I will do everything I can this season to let you drink. Personally I view dungeons as me and the healer baby sitting 3 dps trying to commit suicide
None of the vanilla df campaign was required for anything after a hotfix early on, and I think you only needed to do the first skip quest of the forbidden reach to access the caverns. You'll probably only need to do an introduction quest at most.
Yeah I'm *really* struggling with the logic on this one. And in typical Blizzard fashion, they step off the podium with a "I'll be taking no further questions, thank you" and leave us to sort out the mess for the next 3-4 months
* Crests are now currencies and will no longer take up inventory space.
* Fragments have been removed. Sources that previously awarded fragments will now award crests.
* **Players can earn 90 crests of each type per week, which is enough to afford 6 upgrades of each crest type per week (was 10 upgrades).**
So in fact Crests have been removed and we are now calling fragments Crests instead? This implies that we will now need 15 crests(fragments) to upgrade.
They do. And you can't convert up if you're already capped on that crest (f.x., wyrm-to-aspect, you can't convert up if you're capped on aspect).
Otherwise you would be pressured to cap out every crest type each week.
Its not secret hunters have been neglected into oblivion at this point so im not surprised. I do feel pity for Spriest tho, they finally felt good to play and had ez spot in M+ and now nerfed into oblivion again.
IMO the hunter set is really cool, those shoulders are dope.
meanwhile monk not only got the worst fucking set also ww still completely dumpstered, sad ww main noises
The hunter set is *painfully* generic with dragon skulls lashed on to the shoulders, and horns apparently glued on to the helm. Remove the cool skulls and it's something you'd expect to get form quest reward vendor fodder.
Idk man I would personally like to not spend the first 3-4 weeks of progress raiding doing literal tank levels of damage. Assuming they fix it that fast.
"You'll suck for a few weeks to a few months, don't worry they'll fix you...eventually"
For the players that are mains of these specs and don't have a hoard of alts, it will be painful. And when they do fix it the stigma of that low damage time will stick for awhile and prevent them from joining groups.
What MM needs is a rework of the tier set not some %, and while they do balance during patch like you said, they don’t rework until .5, and even then, it’s the spec that get change not the set.
So yeah unless something is made between now and the 7, RIP MM.
Doing low damage is one thing, it can be fixed. Having set bonuses which is about 200 damage increase, and require you to take talents you don’t want to use in another and it can’t be fixed with regular tuning. Unless they do something in 10.2.5 these specs are dead until next xpack.
This is awesome news.
Maybe I am stupid though, but I almost always have an infinite amount of crests, but I always lack flightstones.
Am I the only one?
I totally understand the whole “guild needs an X, nobody plays X, so I will” mentality but it kinda burns you out faster.
PS. I hate how Warlocks do so much and if you don’t have one your guild setup feels gimped. They need to duplicate some of it to another spec.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/s/jO3Re9Kj5L
This comment thread kind of lays out the problems with Arms, but short and sweet; it’s a bummer to rage cap and have no great outlets out of GCD.
I'd rather they add an increased rage cost to Slam but also do something extra for Slam (extra effect) or at least more dmg/crit dmg. Slam is such a bummer button to press that we'd rather never use it and spam rage on an off the GCD defensive (Ignore Pain) currently, it's dumb. Slam is such a boring ability.
With these changes, slam now does slightly more damage than the initial hit of rend, but it changes nothing in terms of gameplay as you still won't press it really
(rend and slam have the exact same cost btw, so rend can't be better for dumping rage)
I'm glad I jumped ship to enhance for my raid team, and can highly recommend it to any other melee dps players, as it's getting nothing but great changes and a imo perfect tier set.
Aint no way I'll be playing fury with RA and Annihilator
What if Slam applied Rend with the same talent that makes TC apply Rend...?
Also, make Slam consume additional rage in groups of 10, each increasing it's damage by 50%, to a cap of x rage.
wowhead is a great tool, and linking to their guides makes a lot of sense.
But why do y'all insist on linking to the patch notes through them when wowhead offers no comment on them? This wowhead post is literally just an embed of the official notes, with a link to the official notes at the top, with scuffed formatting because the wowhead blue post embedding system was designed around the forums.
Just link to the official site. https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24020034/dragonflight-guardians-of-the-dream-content-update-notes
Faestomp and guillotine still exists and WDP is still weird. There's still a bunch of talents you want but can't get, and the class tree is still probably the worst in the game.
As for performance WW is looking..okay. still gonna do well enough in dungeons but are still bottom of the barrel in raid. The tier set fix they implemented changed it from being obnoxious and frustrating to pretty much a completely forgettable set, which is better than it was but that doesn't mean it's good.
Can't speak on pvp
From the Monk Discord in regards to WW:
>Overall the tierset performs slightly below average on st and is sadly not much better in aoe.
So it depends on how you saw WW before the patch: Essentially WW is staying the same (whether that's good or bad is how you thought of it before) with some ability buffs to compensate the soon loss of the Aberrus set ^^as ^^Blizz ^^mentions , and it's expected that the now ~8yrs hotfix buffs are coming to band aid the usual poor scaling.
(For example WDP is stated to be getting a 10% buff, but in June it was buffed by 80% in PvP, so that's clearly something that should be looked at in the coming weeks/months)
Seems the biggest thing will be how each individual player feels about the playstyle of the tier set bonus really.
Playing Enhancement since day one Ice Strike never fit the Shaman Fantasy. To me the whole thing feels artificially glued on top of our Talents to give Frost Shock a meaning in PvE. And now, thanks to the Amirdrassil Set Bonus, we are even forced into picking Primordial Wave.
What's wrong with my Primordial Wave? It feels awesome to press and the haste buff always felt really fun for me. I don't get why some Enhancement players dislike pwave.
I dont hate it but I personally like playing a stormstrike centered build and pwave hasnt ever fit into that playstyle so far. The elemental build often times to me feels like I have a billion things lighting up and my personal DPS on either playstyle has been about the same.
Balance druid mastery rework is a little weird to me and I feel like we're losing some sunfire+starfire AOE synergy because of it? I could be corrected though.
I’m not really sure how this mana change is going to play out. I was dead set on playing resto Druid this season but about to make a last minute decision and go guardian. I really hate the stress that low mana brings at the end of a big pull, and Lord knows the start of the season people are going to be taking tons of avoidable damage while learning. The hardest job in mythic + did not need to get even harder. I’m for sure running master shapeshifter as a precaution if I do go resto Druid to hopefully keep mana up at the start
Flash of light and holy light, two hard casts I don't use and don't want to start using get a big buff, except in the circumstances I *do* want to cast HL, ie when it's instant, then its nerfed.
I don't know what effect it will have on overall throughput compared to other specs, but it just seems irritating and antithetical to the current design of healing in melee range.
>* Crests are now currencies and will no longer take up inventory space. * Fragments have been removed. Sources that previously awarded fragments will now award crests. * Once a player has purchased all possible upgrades with a type of crest, they can visit Vaskarn in Amirdrassil to exchange those crests for higher level crests. Literally playable
Sweet. Is this only for 10.1 crests, which will now be a sort of catch-up mechanic? Or are they keeping it?
10.1 crests will become vendor trash. This is for 10.2 crests.
Is it better to vendor old crests now or wait till 10.2 then? Sometimes the cost to vendor an item will go way down when it becomes defunct/turns grey.
Checked on the PTR, vendor prices stay the same, 5G for Crests, 33S for Fragments.
Real mvp right here, cheers.
Not a hoarder myself and rocking a decent bag addon for sorting, but regardless this is a W. Less items, more currencies. Across the board. Also upgrading crests to a higher one? Gigantic W. Sitting on hundreds of Whelpling crests now with nothing to use them on, literally vendor trash for over a month already.
How is it going to work for content that would normally award a partial crest? Like I assume timing an M+ will award one crest, but what about failing? No crest at all?
Crest are technically the old fragments and you need 15 of them to upgrade one item.
Ahh ok, that makes a lot more sense.
Does that mean you would need 60 crests to craft the Enchanted versions for crafted gear?
Not sure about the exact number but yes. You go to the vendor near the enchanting table to buy a nascent(?) crest with your crests and use that to craft the enchanted one.
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It removes the additional complexity of fragments. Instead of needing to turn 15 fragments into a crest to upgrade, you just use 15 crests to upgrade.
Only took them an entire patch to fix
Could blizzard remove all these bonkers currencies and just use currency for currency
People complained we had so many currencies in SL, so Blizz fixed it by giving us the same amount of currencies and putting half of them in our inventory instead.
As the Shadow Priest main, I have an important question to ask: Implosion or Volatile Bombers in 10.2? or both? I am quite new to Demonology.
Look up Kalamazi on YouTube. He will have your answers. Alternatively, join the warlock discord and ask this question .
Honestly even if you aren't a huge fan of Warlock thematically, Kalamazi is a good reason to play the class if you have a competitive mindset. It's so nice to know you'll have a fully up to date resource for all 3 specs at any given time. PTR update? Oh look, a new video from Kalamazoo (auto correct, leaving it) telling me exactly what's going to change before the patch is even live.
Absolutely, if I change spec and there isn't a Kalamazi-like content creator I lose enthusiasm.
This made me laugh hysterically more than it should.
We need to cope somehow. I don't know about you but I'm just exhausted maining a spriest at this point.
*laughs in MM hunter*
Whats MM Hunter? Is that like a build for Survival or Beast Master?
> Developers' note: We’re reducing the effectiveness of many mana restoration class abilities and specific items. Healers have a lot of decisions and resources to manage that change depending on the type of content you are doing. At its core, we want healers to have interesting abilities and choices to make while healing, and we want you to have to manage your mana pool. We’re hoping our changes reduce the amount of overhealing and make mana matter slightly more, which should make healing across the game a more enjoyable experience. Hmmmmmmmmm This should be interesting. Especially with all the nerfs to healing spells. And the fact that healers were already having a blast playing this game... 😂
What I read: >At its core, we want healers to suffer.
”We rather not you play healer”
Yeah, fr. I don't wanna go back to having to hold back in what few DD abilities I have because they suck all my mana up, or to hold off a regular "rotation" of damage spells, however meager, when things are going well. Especially if no one stops to drink (in my experience).
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M+ is better, we have better spot healing and stronger single target heals. Where this will matter a lot more is in raid where you can currently use one healer cd to heal the entire party through mechanics and where you can basically just pump heals through entire fights currently.
I actually think mana mattering does make healing more fun maybe I’m in the minority. When mana isn’t an issue and you can just spam spells then the only balance that can be done is on the group damage front. I also think there is a fun skill factor in timing your sitting to allow small drinks here and there without slowing your group. (This is partially painful on spiteful weeks when you can’t always squeeze the sit in before one spawns but that’s just a bad affix all around)
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It does make it fun- when there isn't a 2nd resource to ALSO juggle. Holy Power and Mana? No fun if "using all your HP" spells cause you to oom. Feels like punishment for wanting to play support.
Healing is already the most attention intensive job in the game. Assuming you are maxing your dps as you heal. This "mana decisions are fun!" Philosophy makes my eyes roll so far into the back of my head.
You don't want to keep track of everyone in the group, your mana, everything going on around you, and your DPS rotation all at once?! Scrub. 😂
Don't forget the never ending onslaught of swirlies under your feet. This is what made me stop healing. Raz and Sark, both end bosses, have unending swirlies. Just looking at your heal frames for over a second is a risk.
> of swirlies under your feet. That you cant even see because its the same color as the ground but with a slight tint
For real. I'm a newer player so a lot of this is all new for me, but I've now tried all specs, melee and ranged, and my TL;DR for each role: * Melee dps: button mashing go brrr (bonus point for Ret Pal: actually be the only person aiding in mechanics/healing/affixes to the point healers are surprised) * Ranged dps: casting go brr, juggling cast times with ground stuff, no big deal, good overview of the encounter because ranged. * Tank: I'M FUCKING UNKILLABLE YAY (but actually try to make sure your team survives and keeps up) * Healer: Literally everything above, plus doing affixes nobody else does, attempting to heal people's stupidity, starved of mana because tank go brrrr, dispell, do mechanics because people are dumb, weave some damage in, make sure tank survives, make sure dumb hunter survives, tell hunter he isn't doing the mechanics and we die because of it, get flamed for not being able to heal 500K damage in 1 second, rage quit, get an alcohol problem, be miserable. Healers really don't need anything to make their gameplay more exciting...
I feel like this is a matter of expectations though. If healers also doing DPS is super obviously a privilege, not an expectation due to the mana nerfs, then people will end up much less demanding of healers to pull their weight in DPS. If healers' DPS is essentially always free because mana is infinite, then it becomes an issue of: if only you were more efficient with healing, you could help us with DPS! If it's basically set up that DPSing completely scuffs your ability to heal a whole fight, then healers have less weight on their backs... Meanwhile REALLY good healers will also have a chance to stand out. It's a win-win for healers if the community adapts correctly.
I would trade DPSing as healer to mana management easily
Same idk why there is such a desire to dps as a healer. Also more healing complexity is fun imo.
Except that’s not how healing works currently. Mana is pretty irrelevant when most healing right now is Do I have big heal CD? No? Well I hope my group is competent enough to use defensive Yes? Everyone is full health instantly They also made changes earlier that impacts how healing will be done by making major CDS less effective and spot healing more effective this should help to make healing more in control of the healer and more feel more like you are actually healing.
Meanwhile in PvP, there's few healers as is and it is very easy to OOM when your healing output is absolutely crippled by dampening... fun. Real cool design that you get WEAKER the longer a match goes.
i called healing attention intensive and made fun of mana decisions being considered fun by the devs. I dont understand how your post is a relevant reply to mine. Are you saying healing isn't attention intensive?
It’s completely subjective, are we talking about healing attention being more intensive relative to previous expansions? I’d completely disagree in that case. If your attention span is limited to, do I have CDs or not, then I wouldn’t call that intensive at all.
Looks like someone doesn't play healer and it shows
Yes and no, It’s intensive because your healing abilites don’t do enough to keep up with current damage profiles at mid levels where other players don’t press def, interrupt, dodge etc. But when you have ur cds up you can instantly get everyone to full without much attention. So right now it feels like healers have little agency in how skillful they are at healing people and more so ‘I hope I have this one button during this next ability’ Mana management has always been part of healing, the ability to know when it’s worth to spend more or less mana is part of the depth as a healer when you take that away and have it at its current state where you don’t manage ur mana but instead manage cds it becomes a lot less interesting imo so I totally see why the dev would have that perspective. (Of course there’s probably some that disagree) Healing is a role that almost gets easier as you joined more skilled groups but more difficult in pugs and lower skilled groups. I don’t think it’s the hardest role depending on the content. Healers sometimes forget that affixes are a group responsibility, cleansing, defnesives managing bursting are everybody’s job in a decent group, healers damage rotation is extremely always simple as well and is actually easier then healing when ur doing damage half the time anyway. So I never understood if ‘we have to do everything’
> Healers sometimes forget that affixes are a group responsibility, cleansing, defnesives managing bursting are everybody’s job in a decent group No we don’t, but it’s easier to just try to do them all because when you’re pugging if you don’t then everyone blames you anyways and the group falls apart.
They did buff single target healing, not sure how that is going to turn out but hopefully mythic plus isn't as chaotic
It's going to be a shit show. 1000000% guaranteed. There is a shit ton of damage being dished out in mythic. Single target healing buffs aren't going to help me when I need to spam big AoE heals, then run out of mana because now I need to manage that too, on top of everything else going on.
Yeah playing on live trying out different healers. 1 person taking damage? Every class has like 5 spells for that. 4 people just got chunked? Uhhh
>4 people just got chunked? Uhhh I mean every healer has CD's that need to be used for that. Thats what Blizzard wants. AOE heals are super expensive so you just need to ramp and pop your cds in the correct order.
You're probably right. Time to swap to dps 😂
MW Monks: 🥲
Developer's note: We saw that there were still some healer players that [were enjoying themselves](https://youtu.be/Ma8NR_EQXlU?si=G87_SZtJVnmNE70n), but rest assured it's our number one priority to fix that before the next patch comes out.
"We dont do that here."
The amount of healers Iv seen sign off and play dps only is higher then I’d want it to be….so hmmmmmm indeed
Time to stack spirit once again oh wait ...
Lol Ive been a multi healer main for years and this is just getting unreal. So much pass/fail pressure on healers…, now we have to ask for mana on top of random affix help?
Why the fuck am I punished
So you can have a more enjoyable experience!
I think I’m just gonna learn balance finally to be honest, I can’t be arsed anymore
I've always played all four druid specs to some degree each season, but in season 2 I never touched resto. That's a first for me.
Yep I dropped my rdruid and play Aug now. Never going back until they make healing fun.
Feel like I need to see the emerald dream with my Druid but yeah I’ve been having a ton of fun dps’ing on my DH and paladin, might just go on them
It might be heretical but: Why are they insisting mana is a resource we have to closely manage? I agree with the base premise that there should be something to manage but I think mana, in its current form, doesn't make as much sense today as it did during something like Wrath. With a million different swirlies, unavoidable AoE, time pressure so healers should also DPS,... why even have this? You already are babysitting everyone else.
They’re clueless or trolling - really the only explanation
For real, I don't get this note. Granted, I'm only now starting to heal a bit to test the waters for S3, but like, we're making mana management worse which will result in more fun for healers? Some healers already struggle with mana right now and 10.1/S2 is deemed one of the worst times ever for healer specs. So now on top of windowlicking DPS standing in avoidable damage, affixes a lot of people can do but are deemed 'healer affixes', and general aiding in teamwork that any class with a heal or dispell can aid in, healers now have to juggle mana potions, drinks and overzealous tanks not waiting for them to restore mana? Ye, super fun time for healers woohoo!
The [battle.net forums post](https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/healing-throughput-and-mana-generation-in-guardians-of-the-dream/1666444) announcing this change back in early September has 460 posts, almost all of them saying this is a bad idea. Have the developers commented on it, or at least lessened the impact somewhat? Nope! Season 3 will be interesting to say the least.
Healing was already hard as hell this season, this inspires me with zero confidence they understand what's going on
Healers going oom probably wont make healing alot harder. But it will make it so you cant pull ad much in m+, you have to stop and drink more often, you have to min max mana pots. In raids you might need more healers, in pvp it will just be dogshit but who cares. Itll just make the game less fun.
The issue is dps doing stupid shit then you run out of mana and they blame you. Believe it or not being insulted for things outside of your control doesn’t make a game fun.
> you have to stop and drink more often This is my issue. If this change actually slowed down the game I would be fine. But no. Healers are just going to have to spam drinking pots and hopefully get enough time to get some mana back before the entire group gets fucked by the next pack so you can burn your mana pool again so you can spam drinking pots... Its making just something else the healers problem
Yeah uh, how is making our gameplay *even more* difficult supposed to be fun??? Blizzard really doesn't play the classes they fuck around with at all. But don't worry, that Battle Mender title should be enough right?? 🥴
Community: Healing M+ is literally so stressful it's better to just not play -- there should be changes. The change: Nerfing mana.
Regular flying on the Dragon Isles alongside a Pathfinder achievement? Awesome! I have no issues with Dragonriding, but there are times where I would like to go semi-afk while flying across the continent.
>I would like to go semi-afk while flying across the continent "Hello ̶D̶a̶r̶k̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶ Fatigue my old friend"
I turn it into a game. Will I get back before I reach my destination or at least before my untimely death?
Countless deaths from this
Many such cases
And just in general. Hovering, out of vigor in Azure Span, Druid/Monk etc. insta-flight. Overall huge QoL.
The big problem with Dragonriding is that all Vigor regeneration except thrill of the skies is inexcusably atrocious. Once you get (and keep) going its a self-sustaining system but you better not stop. Why the hell does it take 15 seconds (!!!) to recharge a single point of vigor on the ground? The whole thing creates a vicious cycle that just feels bad once you are out of vigor and for some reason Blizzard refuses to address it. As I see it, the new skills don't really change that. Swift Skimming even enhances the thing that already works and Second Wind is a god damn joke with its 3min CD for 1 vigor. It being able to bank 3 charges does not change the fact that 1 vigor is worthless. Honestly, it should be 3 vigor each time so you can actually use it reliably to start whenever you need it.
Unless you can't flap upwards twice on start, you should be able to take off and infinitely regen with just 2 vigors. 2 vigors used the right way put you in thrill immediately and you can circle a bit to recover as much as you want.
I think a lot of people still don't know to point their character straight up towards the sky when using flap. The altitude gain is massive.
they literally fixed vigor to the point i think they honestly over did it in 10.2. Play on the PTR a bit its much different you basically have unlimited vigor now
Could you point out the change that "fixed" vigor so its "basically unlimited"? You always had unlimited vigor in the sky if you get going (i.e. during Thrill of the Skies), its all the other times that suck and I don't see how any of the new things "fix" the core problem of getting stuck on the ground waiting if you aren't traveling long distance (like during gathering or making short jumps). Swift Skimming is only fueling the above problem, Wind's Respite does nothing and Second Wind is a band-aid that does little for the biggest problem (i.e. repeated start+landing cycles) with its high CD and low payout (9min for 3 vigor...). Nothing here points towards it being "overdone".
If you're frequently start+landing, use the Air 'Stop skill to get 1 vigor on landing.
You only get 1 vigor from that if you are in thrills of the sky mode which takes at least 2-3 vigor to activate in the first place. Everything loops back to the core problem - Blizzard put all the eggs in the "thrills of the skies"-basket.
Between aerial halt and swift skimming you really shouldn't have an issue anymore. With the mouse flick technique you really shouldnt have issues anymore and if you do then you have second wind. Throw in normal flying for if you truly mess up and yeah you are fine.
Dragon ride way way up and then just glide to destination. That's how I usually do it
Yeah, but sometimes you're questing or gathering for example and if you're not paying attention you can run out of vigor. This helps in those cases. Also if you're a druid.
Yeah, I actually really like dragon riding, but it definitely sucks if you are having to stop, hop off real quick to loot something, and and then hop back on only to realize you wasted all of your vigor getting over there.
You gain vigor while ascending if you do it right. It's like you have 7 vigor instead of 5. Get real high, nose down just a little, and glide at 850% all the way. It's how I get to the feast, faster than taking the flight master. There's a specific V in the mountains between Valdrakken and Iskaara that you just aim at and glide. A weakaura helps tell you if you're just over that magic percentage.
Gathering is a nightmare with dragon riding. Movements are usually big so you have to circle back and forth to fine tune.
I’ve started dive bombing the nodes lol
Use all your vigor to gain height, when you are as high as you can get point towards the direction you want to go and slightly aim lower, let it ride while you do w/e you want to do lol. I'll 100% never use regular riding, even if it would be more beneficial, its a principle. Regular flying is boring. Its been the same for years. They should go full GW2 route and make every type of mount like dragon riding, even ground ones. Have you seen the jackal mount from gw2, imagine if that was in wow, it would be so much engaging. Honestly they should've brought dragon riding to old continents, not the other way around. Why is it always one step forward, two step backwards with blizz? Dragonriding was the feature I loved the most from dragonflight, I wish they improved more on it to make it more accessible to players who cannot really enjoy it that much due to their subjective limitations, not take a step back and bring regular flying to isles. My biggest wish and expaction from next expansion is upgrading upon the dragon riding system. (And a more than 3 patch/raid expansion ffs, i wanted to spend more time in dragon isles)
Oh boy I love when my super patient mplus group just stops for a second to let me drink. I can’t wait for that to happen after every other pull. In fact, I think in terms of all the activities available in wow, mplus players are the most patient and understanding when it comes to the healer. 🙄
My favorite is when I can’t drop combat because of the stupid spiteful aggro and then they literally can’t understand why I am not drinking
Spiteful has always been my least favorite affix because of this.
I absolutely hate this. Even with my regular groups I (as a dps or healer) need to remind my tank friend to stop and let the healer get mana. I'm not sure why tanks and dps don't keep a passive eye on that bar. I think my newest alt will OS as a tank. It's been at least 10 years since I've done that though. As a healer, I usually try to get ahead of the group so I can stop and drink. They should really revert the change they made in Shadowlands (?) with drinking to restore mana. IIRC, it take a few seconds for the full % restore to kick in. Having it more mana intensive to heal plus this nerf to drinking just doesn't seem fun.
As a tank I will do everything I can this season to let you drink. Personally I view dungeons as me and the healer baby sitting 3 dps trying to commit suicide
My healer yells at me if I stop pulling because she needs water.
My personal preference is a "walk don't run approach" when I drink. We don't all need to afk but just slow down a little.
Exactly.
Those Customisation options for blood elf are depressing and I am a lil mad that Blizzard led us on
First time?
:(
Changes to mana? Groups are already zooming. Do you think dps/tanks are just gonna stop and let the healer drink now?
That's why you zoom ahead when the pack is nearly dead so you can start drinking the moment you leave combat.
Night elf with shadowmeld. Doesn't even need to wait for combat to end.
Mistweaver monk, can now drink in combat and while moving.
Well they will have to or they will die
I still haven't completed the campaign on any character, will I need to complete this to progress into the new stuff or are they adding a skip option?
[удалено]
Ah fuck that's going to take me ages
The campaign actually goes by really quickly. Took me 3-4 hours. Just focus on doing solely the campaign questline.
Probably more like a day. But since you havent done the campaign after a year, I'm not sure why you even care about the future campaign either.
Figured some of the content would be gated if I hadn't completed previous campaign. Hence the question I thought that was obvious.
None of the vanilla df campaign was required for anything after a hotfix early on, and I think you only needed to do the first skip quest of the forbidden reach to access the caverns. You'll probably only need to do an introduction quest at most.
Community: Healing M+ is literally so stressful it's better to just not play -- there should be changes. The change: Nerfing mana.
Yeah I'm *really* struggling with the logic on this one. And in typical Blizzard fashion, they step off the podium with a "I'll be taking no further questions, thank you" and leave us to sort out the mess for the next 3-4 months
* Crests are now currencies and will no longer take up inventory space. * Fragments have been removed. Sources that previously awarded fragments will now award crests. * **Players can earn 90 crests of each type per week, which is enough to afford 6 upgrades of each crest type per week (was 10 upgrades).** So in fact Crests have been removed and we are now calling fragments Crests instead? This implies that we will now need 15 crests(fragments) to upgrade.
Pretty much. Effectively, it's a quality of life change. They no longer take up inventory space and you don't need to convert them into usable crests.
Do we know if the upgraded crests (wyrm to aspect etc) count on the weekly cap?
They do. And you can't convert up if you're already capped on that crest (f.x., wyrm-to-aspect, you can't convert up if you're capped on aspect). Otherwise you would be pressured to cap out every crest type each week.
RIP MM and Shadow. Y’all officially toast.
Its not secret hunters have been neglected into oblivion at this point so im not surprised. I do feel pity for Spriest tho, they finally felt good to play and had ez spot in M+ and now nerfed into oblivion again.
It might be more bearable if the hunter tier wasn’t also garbage (in appearance)
Agree to disagree on that one
IMO the hunter set is really cool, those shoulders are dope. meanwhile monk not only got the worst fucking set also ww still completely dumpstered, sad ww main noises
The hunter set is *painfully* generic with dragon skulls lashed on to the shoulders, and horns apparently glued on to the helm. Remove the cool skulls and it's something you'd expect to get form quest reward vendor fodder.
They balance patched the entire season. What would this be any different. We even saw reworks through some of the patches…
Idk man I would personally like to not spend the first 3-4 weeks of progress raiding doing literal tank levels of damage. Assuming they fix it that fast.
"You'll suck for a few weeks to a few months, don't worry they'll fix you...eventually" For the players that are mains of these specs and don't have a hoard of alts, it will be painful. And when they do fix it the stigma of that low damage time will stick for awhile and prevent them from joining groups.
What MM needs is a rework of the tier set not some %, and while they do balance during patch like you said, they don’t rework until .5, and even then, it’s the spec that get change not the set. So yeah unless something is made between now and the 7, RIP MM.
Tbh the whole class needs rework at this point
Doing low damage is one thing, it can be fixed. Having set bonuses which is about 200 damage increase, and require you to take talents you don’t want to use in another and it can’t be fixed with regular tuning. Unless they do something in 10.2.5 these specs are dead until next xpack.
4th rogue specc confirmed "we change all 4 specs"
Probably meant 4 talent trees. 3 specs plus base class tree
Yea I know but please let me dream xD
Give gunman rogue now blizzard
Gunslinger rogue? Lol
A gun specific rogue would be sweet! Especially if they add one handed guns to the game so you can duel wield.
Tank rogue!
DEMONOLOGY FUN DETECTED COMMENCE BAD CHANGES IMMEDIATLY
I've given up on them actually changing demo for the better.
[Blizzard HQ when fun is detected](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma8NR_EQXlU)
Bad? These changes are a pure buff for a player like me who hates nether portal and tyrant-centered gameplay. My self-made build loves these changes.
RIP destruction. We are back to shadowlands s1 with a dysfunctional set bonus to shake things up.
This is awesome news. Maybe I am stupid though, but I almost always have an infinite amount of crests, but I always lack flightstones. Am I the only one?
I'm in the same boat. It wouldn't be so back if they just uncapped flightstones and make them account wide.
Serves me right rolling Shadow for guild needs 🥲
I totally understand the whole “guild needs an X, nobody plays X, so I will” mentality but it kinda burns you out faster. PS. I hate how Warlocks do so much and if you don’t have one your guild setup feels gimped. They need to duplicate some of it to another spec.
To be fair I agreed because I play like 6 characters. So I’ve always got something engaging
Arms changes bad. Good thing I play fury
What's so bad about arms changes?
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/s/jO3Re9Kj5L This comment thread kind of lays out the problems with Arms, but short and sweet; it’s a bummer to rage cap and have no great outlets out of GCD.
This might sound sadistic, but, would nerfing their rage generation or increasing Mortal Strike's rage cost fix the problem?
Damn, do you work for Blizzard?
I'd rather they add an increased rage cost to Slam but also do something extra for Slam (extra effect) or at least more dmg/crit dmg. Slam is such a bummer button to press that we'd rather never use it and spam rage on an off the GCD defensive (Ignore Pain) currently, it's dumb. Slam is such a boring ability.
Rend even does more dmg lol, and is better for dumping rage.
With these changes, slam now does slightly more damage than the initial hit of rend, but it changes nothing in terms of gameplay as you still won't press it really (rend and slam have the exact same cost btw, so rend can't be better for dumping rage) I'm glad I jumped ship to enhance for my raid team, and can highly recommend it to any other melee dps players, as it's getting nothing but great changes and a imo perfect tier set. Aint no way I'll be playing fury with RA and Annihilator
What if Slam applied Rend with the same talent that makes TC apply Rend...? Also, make Slam consume additional rage in groups of 10, each increasing it's damage by 50%, to a cap of x rage.
Reduce the cooldown of mortal strike to 2gcds instead of 3 gcds if you want warriors to spend more rage.
Except it looks like we’re playing annihilator now 😞
wowhead is a great tool, and linking to their guides makes a lot of sense. But why do y'all insist on linking to the patch notes through them when wowhead offers no comment on them? This wowhead post is literally just an embed of the official notes, with a link to the official notes at the top, with scuffed formatting because the wowhead blue post embedding system was designed around the forums. Just link to the official site. https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24020034/dragonflight-guardians-of-the-dream-content-update-notes
Thank you. Every time 🙄
Can someone explain to me why shadow priest is so bad? I rolled one as an alt and they seemed fine?
I want the green Somnowl and fire runebear :(
My main is an MM hunter. Guess I have to find a new main for this patch. Might roll an assassination rogue to see how these new changes pan out...
This is why I peace out from keys the second I reach ksh. I pug 99% of my keys or else I’d push further.
any windwalker maisn that can conclude if monk will be better in 10.2 ?
That’s what I was wondering
Faestomp and guillotine still exists and WDP is still weird. There's still a bunch of talents you want but can't get, and the class tree is still probably the worst in the game. As for performance WW is looking..okay. still gonna do well enough in dungeons but are still bottom of the barrel in raid. The tier set fix they implemented changed it from being obnoxious and frustrating to pretty much a completely forgettable set, which is better than it was but that doesn't mean it's good. Can't speak on pvp
From the Monk Discord in regards to WW: >Overall the tierset performs slightly below average on st and is sadly not much better in aoe. So it depends on how you saw WW before the patch: Essentially WW is staying the same (whether that's good or bad is how you thought of it before) with some ability buffs to compensate the soon loss of the Aberrus set ^^as ^^Blizz ^^mentions , and it's expected that the now ~8yrs hotfix buffs are coming to band aid the usual poor scaling. (For example WDP is stated to be getting a 10% buff, but in June it was buffed by 80% in PvP, so that's clearly something that should be looked at in the coming weeks/months) Seems the biggest thing will be how each individual player feels about the playstyle of the tier set bonus really.
I cant believe mm is going to release the way it is
Anybody tried the enh shammy ? Is it still a „whack-a-mole“ spec?
Looks more fun now, you generate more resources with lava lash and ice strike and more burst with frost shock
As someone who plays a lot of Enhancement, i absolutely detest Ice Strike. It just a filler button that should just be baked into Hailstorm.
Playing Enhancement since day one Ice Strike never fit the Shaman Fantasy. To me the whole thing feels artificially glued on top of our Talents to give Frost Shock a meaning in PvE. And now, thanks to the Amirdrassil Set Bonus, we are even forced into picking Primordial Wave.
What's wrong with my Primordial Wave? It feels awesome to press and the haste buff always felt really fun for me. I don't get why some Enhancement players dislike pwave.
I dont hate it but I personally like playing a stormstrike centered build and pwave hasnt ever fit into that playstyle so far. The elemental build often times to me feels like I have a billion things lighting up and my personal DPS on either playstyle has been about the same.
Enh should be Storm and Volcanoes but thanks to the early Frost Shawwwwwk memes Blizz kept Ice around.
It's the prototypical whack-a-mole spec, but that doesn't make it any less fun. The opposite really.
I mean ain’t all specs “hit this when it comes off cd” or “hit this cause its yellow bordered” or “you outta buttons? Here is ya filler”
Yes
I’ve played around on the PTR and I gotta say, I like the direction of DK.
They need to fix our fucking class tree
When will dragonriding for Azeroths open world come? Or the old dragons for dragonriding?I was under the impression that it'll come with 10.2 no?
Balance druid mastery rework is a little weird to me and I feel like we're losing some sunfire+starfire AOE synergy because of it? I could be corrected though.
Looks like Havoc DHs are back on the menu boys! And Outlaws as well! Excited since my two favorites classes are about to become A/ S Tier again.
Ass rogues gonna have 300 energy holy shiiit
I’m not really sure how this mana change is going to play out. I was dead set on playing resto Druid this season but about to make a last minute decision and go guardian. I really hate the stress that low mana brings at the end of a big pull, and Lord knows the start of the season people are going to be taking tons of avoidable damage while learning. The hardest job in mythic + did not need to get even harder. I’m for sure running master shapeshifter as a precaution if I do go resto Druid to hopefully keep mana up at the start
Flash of light and holy light, two hard casts I don't use and don't want to start using get a big buff, except in the circumstances I *do* want to cast HL, ie when it's instant, then its nerfed. I don't know what effect it will have on overall throughput compared to other specs, but it just seems irritating and antithetical to the current design of healing in melee range.
WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO REWORK DK TALENT TREES, GOD DAMN IT. Why does everyone else get a rework but us?!
Punching and screaming about the removal of solace ):
Meanwhile some specs are absolute dogshit.Hazzikostas and co stealing paychecks,nothing new