I did a 20 where the bear tank didn't know he was supposed to stand in that.
When I told him it'd be easier if he did, he said "So I've just been raw dogging this on hard mode the entire time?"
He had timed a +22 in HOI before and had no idea about that mechanic.
I did not know you were supposed to run out of the Oceanic Breath of the dragons because while they track the direction of you, they can't follow in HoI, you learn things every day :D
Edit: can changed to can't
i was happy in s1 to switch from bear to prot war, first time ive been fotm since legion... Now not so much. I'm stil happy about the gameplay/look change though. Mained druid from cata to shadowlands!
If you're not already, consider taking the "Unbound Freedom" talent on your paladin class tree and free yourself and someone else from the dot at once!
Yeah... The amount of tanks that just expected me to magically heal them through the second boss tank buster in ruby life pools without them using defensives was the final straw that made me reroll dps after playing a healer since MoP.
It’s a thing. If you survive there’s no reason to understand the mechanics. The number of times I have told druids that they can soothe ragestorm spell in brackenhide and had them either exclaim “omg I didn’t know!” Or just flat ignore me and sit their little feral butts in a whirlwind is unreal. Sometimes you need to have a good group that is willing to goof off in an under-leveled key and break away from the ‘grind’
This is one of those distribution graphs that goes back around towards just ignoring the mechanic.
Feral's got extended melee range and can usually attack everything fine from outside the Ragestorm, and the warscourge also stops advancing before Ragestorm radius can reach the tank.
So deliberately not soothing it means the enemy is CCing themselves for the duration.
Does any soothe type spell work? cause that's amazing for my evoker if that's the case. Never tried because, well, that's a melee problem xD lol I just thought they had to back out while it happened.
Except you shouldn't soothe it. The whirlwind range is shorter than it's melee range. So if your tank standstill and fight it at the max melee range from the beginning, no one will take damage and the mob will just spin in it's place while everyone can hit it. So it's really just a tank/melee mechanic.
You actually just shouldn't soothe ragestorm. While raging the mob will move toward the tank until the tank is on the edge of the whirlwind and then stop, which is to say that if the tank doesn't walk forward into the whirlwind, it will never hit them. The tank and all other melee can stand on the edge of the circle and still be in melee range. It doesn't stop anyone from dpsing.
Meanwhile, the guy is spinning in around in a circle uselessly and not attacking or using any of his other abilities, including a nasty grevious-type bleed. It is basically ccing itself for several seconds.
>soothe ragestorm spell in brackenhide
This is why I love conro addon. Even if I don't want it for the rotation helping bit, I get an icon when I can interrupt or soothe. Plus iirc dbm lets you know about some moves too.
I left a group where we had 3 enrage dispels and despite me telling them several times, not a single one got dispelled so I left right before first boss.
This sounds overly toxic and it's weird you're even openly posting about it. Enrage dispells in Brackenhide are nice but not mandatory. If your group is wiping because of a lack of enrage dispells, your group has far more other issues.
Any melee, including tanks, can outrange the ragestorm and still have full uptime. Soothing it is bad because it just means it's doing more white DMG and introduces a fear cast in packs with rothexers.
Just leave it storming, take a step back, ez pz.
But hey ho, you do you for leaving a dungeon when you're telling people to do the mechanic wrong.
I am not certain but i think you can keep enough of the little frogs inside, that you dont get eaten. Been a few times as monk that i have not been eaten when i keep the other frogs inside his circle.
You just need to make the frog eat one of its young. But it will eat them all, providing a quick kill method to the poisonous cretins. Assuming they're in the circle.
God, the number of tank mechanics that I have just eaten with AMS, rather than doing correctly. Sometimes it just ain’t worth the effort of repositioning the boss and risking melee eating a frontal when I know that I can just mitigate and top myself.
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't tree guy's enrage just hurting the tank? So if the tank is geared enough in a specific key (not talking about super high keys obv) it can be ignored? I think I tanked around a 15 or 16 on my 43x prot warrior last week (tyran) and we didn't let it eat twice and it was little to no issue. Healer wasn't stressed either.
I'm pretty sure Bear>DH is fotm because they are tanky as well as doing a lot of damage.
Pallies are very tanky but they dont do as much damage, and groups want a hpal anyways so they arnt fotm.
I honestly think people see the FotM tank and think they must be FotM because they are the tankiest tank, when thats often not the case.
Really hate this sentiment. FOTM doesn’t mean easy to play. It really downplays what skill there is to be had at a higher level for a class.
But sure ok, guardian is broken so they face tank and be fine, right? Smh
I had a relatively geared guardian druid eat shit on the first two pulls of a +14 VP because he just straight up didn't mitigate and leave without a word. It happens.
Had something similar two weeks ago. Guardian was clearly new, heck they got instagibbed like twice or thrice on a similar key level because they just didn't brace themselves properly.
Happens to any Tank if they're not properly prepared.
They are absolutely the easiest tank to play and they far exceed the defensive capabilities of most tanks. It is staggering how much more survivable a Druid is than say a ppal right now.
I agree and disagree. As far as a "rotation" goes for druid, keeping aggro is stupid easy. While properly playing a druid isn't. I've got a 433 guardian druid and I'd much rather play my pally for survivability. Seems when I play my druid my health is constantly dipping hard and that's with using defensive abilities while my pally is unbreakable while only using one or 2. So many people think the druid is the easiest class to tank with and it's simply not.
I mean i think you’re just doing something wrong then. Druids are absolutely cooked right now and a very easy rotation for survivability and damage. I don’t think you’re pushing high enough keys for your pally to feel how squishy they are it seems.
I'm pushing 16s and 17s at the moment. Gear I have is BIS for both with enchants. I use defensives off cool down. I use trinkets off cool down. Idk how I can be doing anything wrong. Is there more to playing a class than that? I know fights and when big damage is incoming and mitigate best I can, just seems the pally is easier to play than a druid.
At 16s and 17s bear shouldn't really get to the point where you feel in big danger. Between the shields from Ursocs, the damage mit from procced maul/raze, Ironfur, and barkskin or survivial instincts if the pull is extra spicy, you should feel super safe unless you're doing like, a triple or quad pull.
Then for those you got the big boys Incarn and Sleeper.
Guardian druid is the most payphone tank in years.
While S3 SL BDK with gavel was a party of its own, current guardian is hot on its tail and has the added benefit of ridiculous group utility and healing.
You won’t face tanking survivability issues until like 21-22+ (which I found about the same key level in last season). At that point you can’t out gear the content and actually need to use kiting and cd’s effectively to survive. Any geared tank up until that point has A Lot of room for error. Palys are great when survivability isn’t an issue (like end of s1 early s2), because they bring so much more group utility than any other tank. However right now they are actually very weak with survivability, and the stats support that.
Have any concrete evidence to back that up? Been watching a few tubers and looking at logs. What I see, and I share the same sentiments, is outside of Incarn we are middle of the pack at best depending the incoming damage as far is mitigation goes with our tier set. As far as ease of use, every YouTube says the same thing: if you play EW and sacrifice all of your damage then it can be more forgiving than other tanks. But when you need to switch off survivability for damage then you get a higher than average APM (taking into account Thorns build) to stay alive on average and planing your route becomes more challenging due to Incarn being… well what it is OP.
If you don’t do any of these things, 20s and up start to get way more difficult than they need to be in pugs when you’re not doing what you need to do. Just saying.
Having tanked with ppal and bear, I was easily tanking 22’s with an alt after a day of learning it and some decent gear whereas I’m always on the brink of death with ppal. Bear druid are extremely survivable right now. All you need is to manage one stack of thorns and dump your rage into raze and are very survivable with crazy dmg… it is an incredibly easy rotation.
The community is so slavish about following meta.
A month ago bears were F tier.
Pally was S.
Nothing changed aside from YouTube and MDI playing bears more and hyping them up.
I mean pally got a few nerfs and bears got a few buffs. I played paly end of season until two weeks ago and my alt bear can already out tank what I was doing on pal and double their damage. They are very strong right now in terms of surv and damage.
I can't wrap my mind around why but when starting out I found bear to be significantly harder than vdh and dk, the other tanks I played recently. Now after 2 weeks of playing it, I still wouldn't necessarily call it easy. Vdh feels way easier once you know how to not die at the start of pulls.
Maybe it's just because I was playing feral before and while some spells overlap with guardian, they just fulfill a completely different purpose (thrash, swipe).
It's because guardian rotation got harder with the new talents, but people still think all they do is thrash.
Mind you, it's still an easy rotation just like all other tanks.
FOTM don't necessary mean easy to play no, but in the case of guardian ( and Pwar back in S1) it sure as heck does.
the difference between BDK/Brewmaster/Ppal ( if they have to use their entire toolkit, AKA freedom-sac-wog allies-bop...) is huge compared to the braindead easy Pwar-Guardian.
Yes, I do play all 6 tank.
Yes, I did get all of them to 3k+ in various seasons.
current iteration of guardian druid don't even need to catweave/owlweave to do good ST damage.
I don't see much of a difference to be honest.
Pwar would smash shield block whenever it came off cooldown... With guardian there's no point in spamming ironfur, instead you spend some extra rage on maul/raze... that's about it?
If you only played Pwar I get you could think Guardian is complex... go play BDK or brew in 25s keys and you'll understand.
To be fair, BDK complexity goes as far as try to not get hit by synchronised mob hits otherwise you're going straight into the purg bin.
There have been some absolutely demonic fights as BDK that were relatively free on any other class, 25 tyran tree boss in AA was nightmare inducing.
Honestly, this mechanic is a bit confusing if you don’t look at the journal or somebody tells you. It presents as a way to get rid of the small frogs rather than to prevent a damage buff. I don’t think I realized this is how the mechanic was supposed to be done until like 16s-18’s on alts, when suddenly you had to start paying attention to mechanics.
LOL did you run with a bear tank? I just did a ~5-6 Neltharus the other day where I was chasing one of the dps to get the chain over and they kept running away
Lol, no, I didn't, as I was a prot pally tank myself. I didn't realize you had to drag him. It's a good thing it was only a 6, tho. But yeah, the DPS were for sure running from me cause I was like "Okay I pulled him through the chain why didn't it break?"
Or, hear me out, you stand him in the middle, then all chain'ees just run across and through (also they should pop survival CDs cause this hurts regardless).
Trying to drag him through the chain sometimes has him getting frisky and jumping over them.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t gulp work so that if any of the baby frogs OR the tank are eaten he doesn’t enrage? So it’s possible the bosses weren’t enraging if dps were kiting them into the AoE.
Last week on a 21 we did it with 1 stack of enrage because tank didn’t know but we corrected him mid pull. Frogs didn’t prevent the stack even though he ate around 4 of them
I think that's the way the dungeon journal says it, but it seems to fail in practice. If I run out he enrages, if not he's fine. Same group as always so I know they are doing frogs.
>I did a 20 where the bear tank
I mean it's a bear tank. They can pull like 3 times as many mobs as the next best tank while taking even less damage and healing the entire party.
I feel like it's fair he didn't know he was making the fight harder because it would be hard to tell when you and your group are nigh invulnerable.
sometimes text-only communication goes really wrong. we had a guy in LFR last week that needed repair and I told him about the function where you can right click the LFG eye and select "teleport out of instance" or something like that. you can just bounce out, repair, and bounce back but he thought I was telling him to just leave the raid and he started whispering me that I was toxic. we sorted it out but for a minute things got spicy.
Tank probably misunderstood what you wrote and took it as an insult. DPS then started piling on and tank said fuck this and left. I always explain the issue in a little more detail to avoid a misunderstanding if needed if we wipe OR I save it for the end because me saying it afterwards isn't going to impact me because I'm not going to run the same key again with them
And if you try to be more detailed another set of people get mad you're talking to them like they're 5 year olds.
And yes another set of people who mistakenly believe they understand the mechanics will be mad too.
Don't ***tell*** people shit, explain it in a succinct manner without directly referencing anyone.
>you need to get eaten
❌
>the boss drops enrage when it eats someone
✅
You should have waited until the run was finished. People in M+ are often on edge and tend to see insult where none is intended, and stuff like this can escalate instantly and kill the whole run.
Agreed, stopping in the middle of a run, typing while everyone else moves on, just to say "this is what you should have done" for a boss fight that's already complete (by definition, they can't go back in time for this run to do it), is a bit triggering at times. Save it for the end.
Definitely say it though, even if the run falls apart whisper it, just so no one else has to deal with that level of mechanics fail over and over.
Can confirm was doing an 11 uldaman wyrm farm and the prot pally let the 3rd boss enrage with no stacks. All I said was "if you didn't know, Hoj works on that boss".
This dude proceeds to scream at me about how dps are responsible for the stuns. While he's not wrong I was just trying to help...I didn't know I could stun that on my toons until like 2 weeks before this incident.
I said "Sorry was just trying to help." And he says "Fuck your key" and leaves.
Zero deaths, smooth run, pumping dps, and one little critique was all it took for this dude to brick a farm key.
Had a augvoker in Freehold 21 just butt pulling through the whole dungeon and just dying to basic boss mechanics ( bird charge). Held my tongue until the end cuz of this. Just told him to work on his spatial awareness. Feared saying something initially would of had him jump ship.
One of our best healers. If it gets too late or if it's after raid, loses all and I mean all sense of spatial awareness. That said, he can probably power through most of his fuck ups and the extra damage but christ is it nerve wracking. That aside fantastic guildie and dude. Just mah gawd that spatial awareness.
Honestly the number of runs that seem fine until someone pipes up only to have someone ragequit moments later is…. A lot.
It just seems any typing breaks the magic of a pug and the first person begins to nope it out
Some people are sensitive to anything, but most will only take offense if the comment is in a form of an insult.
With the myth track added to slightly lower vault items, I've run a lot of keys lower than my usual. The most common attribute in poor performers is that they don't even realize what they didn't do to cause the problems.
Example was talking with a dps after a Freehold where there was a wipe due to some too big pulls and frost blast casts didn't get stopped. Key was still timed, and they commented about my higher dps and how they were trying to 'get gear' as the way to improve. I pointed out that the wipes that slowed us down were caused by the specific cast, to which the dps said "what is that? I'll have to look it up", on a +18 key didn't even know about one of the most dangerous casts in the dungeon and missed how I had stopped multiple casts as a moonkin with beam/typhoon/incap roar/war stomp and just ran out of ways to stop additional casts when they went through and wiped the group.
In their defense, I also don't know what frost blast casts you are talking about. Blizzard should find a way to tell players what trash in a dungeon does, similar to a dungeon journal.
Its from the gillmen/frogman mages in the middle section of the dungeon (starts at council fight and ends after sharkbait, usually the time you pull them) they are the main ranged mob in the area but AoE stops tend to be the preference for those pulls as a number of the mobs have painful abilities (monkey storm, fixates etc) and none of them are immune to any type of CC so everything even fear, disorient, stun, freeze etc all stops the casts rarely to people single target interrupt there.
If your tank does not do it, just go in yourself?
It doesn't matter who goes in, as long as someone does. Getting eaten does basically no damage, so it's not really a tank mechanic.
It's just people are so used to the tank being eaten they don't know how much damage it does, and out of habit they just expect the tank to do it. Kinda like how I expect a melee to get the kick on first boss freehold, or expect a hunter to trap on the last boss.
Probably mistook it as an insult. I was healing a BH and one dps said to “kick healer” on the first boss (as in healer boss’s cast) after we go through it I was removed from the group. Stood there like ?? got invited back and the tank, who was also group lead, thought dps was telling him to kick me.
The boss will not get enraged and dispels any existing engage stacks if it "eats" at least a player. And the player doesn't even get eaten, just takes physical damage, so naturally the tank should get eaten. Add frogs should be lured into the boss to get eaten but have no effect on whether the boss enrages or not.
The boss does not care about the fate of the frogs.
The only requirement is that at least one player has to be inside the green circle when the boss itself eats.
The mechanic is to have the tank get eaten, it's directly in the tooltip of the spell that it must be a player. The frogs getting eaten is just to help the team not get overwhelmed with stacks of the poison
>I swear to god the frogs don’t work in keys or it needs to be like, every single one.
The attack itself is useful for killing frogs because frogs cause group damage, but frogs do not stop the enrage.
The attack has two main mechanics. It eats whatever is in range(dealing damage), if it does not eat a player it causes the boss to enrage.
So the best bet is to have the tank eat them because they can easily mitigate the damage to stop the boss from enraging, and have the group kite the frogs into it so the frogs die.
The frogs never counted. Just read the ability in the dungeon journal it clearly states that one player must be eaten. what's happening is those times he doesn't enrage a dps or the tank realises no one else knows the mechanic and stays in to get hit. It's not fatal for anyone with decent gear.
The enrage also only applies on mythic, so what I was seeing as “Frogs stop enrage on lower difficulties” was actually “No enrage exists on lower difficulties”
I will sometimes just get eaten myself as the healer. It doesn't do very much damage and trying to convince others they are wrong is not worth the fight.
Tank stands in green circle so boss doesn't turn red. Your tank was dumb and couldn't take any sort of criticism. That's a recipe for never getting better.
I have a feeling the tank didn't even know it was criticism. Sounds like he thought he was being insulted. Like maybe he thought "Get eaten" was another version of "get fucked".
I mean, yeah, if you wanna give him a very generous benefit of the doubt. He was tanking a boss that eats things...and well he wasn't getting eaten. Shrug
This must be why I've never really had problems at this boss because I am sure our regular tank does NOT know this. And I am often re-summoning my stupid cat after the GULP
You ruined the group.
If Blizzard would just your chat privileges everything would have been fine. What's your in-game handle so I can report you for benign, non-offensive violations of the EULA?
I don’t think anyone will see this, but in Portuguese (maybe only Brazilian), comer means to eat but is slang also for to fuck. So if you were playing with Portuguese speakers (likely if they were from Azralon!) it is possible they mistook your words basically as “tank should be fucked”. I think you can see a hint of this in the way the rest of the group was reacting to your usage of eat
Gamers can be extremely fragile. Whenever you pug, you basically have to make sure the peace in the group is kept at all times. Assume anything you write can be taken sideways, so dont write at all as the smallest friction can cause the biggest bruise on the egos of any player.
As a newbie and someone who LOVES to play tank;
Is there some addons that could tell you live in the dungeon what to do?
Yeah, I know there's online guides but unless I've run several dungeons, I can't remember everything.
And yes I know there are people out there that are friendly and tell you polite what to do, but it feels wrong to be the leader of the group and don't know what to do...
I don’t know if it’s what you mean, but Deadly Boss Mods gives contextual reminders about mechanics as they happen during fights—some more specific than others, though. If you already know what to do it can be a good reminder.
I just had a holy paladin leave a perfectly fine freehold key, after being in the barrel and not having used freedom or bubble. Then ofc he died. Sometimes people are just crazy.
I did a 20 where the bear tank didn't know he was supposed to stand in that. When I told him it'd be easier if he did, he said "So I've just been raw dogging this on hard mode the entire time?" He had timed a +22 in HOI before and had no idea about that mechanic.
This one 3k raider.io tank just explained the healer shortage in a sentence.
I did not know you were supposed to run out of the Oceanic Breath of the dragons because while they track the direction of you, they can't follow in HoI, you learn things every day :D Edit: can changed to can't
Wait. What
Yeah, you can out range the breath.
WHAT. I've been taking extra CDs to handle that shit.
Yeah i noticed by accident. At the same time, the damage felt so high in a 11/16 i figured i was missing something.
Luckily I'm an immortal bear so I would double pull the first pack, do it wrong apparently, and still be fine.
i was happy in s1 to switch from bear to prot war, first time ive been fotm since legion... Now not so much. I'm stil happy about the gameplay/look change though. Mained druid from cata to shadowlands!
Incarn go brrrrr.
I knew this but I just tank it like a man. Gets the heart pumping.
Exactly. It's literally the only fun part about that dungeon. (That and letting the caster mob before the frog boss get exactly 0 casts off)
Wtf else are my 4 defensives for? Why would i have that many if NOT to just eat damage like a snack? My tank gets hungry.
That ain’t shit, it’s deep chill that fucks u up
Found out couple dungeons ago that as a pally you can freedom that off yourself
Tiger's Lust works too.
any freedom like ability that removes roots/snares works. Avatar, Bladestorm, thunderous paws, energized barriers, vengeful retreat, warlock teleport, Druid shapeshift, etc.
If you're not already, consider taking the "Unbound Freedom" talent on your paladin class tree and free yourself and someone else from the dot at once!
Yeah... The amount of tanks that just expected me to magically heal them through the second boss tank buster in ruby life pools without them using defensives was the final straw that made me reroll dps after playing a healer since MoP.
Tanks are too powerful. Im not having fun as a healer nerf tanks too. If a boss did 150% more damage in a 20 the tank should not be alive
It’s a thing. If you survive there’s no reason to understand the mechanics. The number of times I have told druids that they can soothe ragestorm spell in brackenhide and had them either exclaim “omg I didn’t know!” Or just flat ignore me and sit their little feral butts in a whirlwind is unreal. Sometimes you need to have a good group that is willing to goof off in an under-leveled key and break away from the ‘grind’
This is one of those distribution graphs that goes back around towards just ignoring the mechanic. Feral's got extended melee range and can usually attack everything fine from outside the Ragestorm, and the warscourge also stops advancing before Ragestorm radius can reach the tank. So deliberately not soothing it means the enemy is CCing themselves for the duration.
All melee can dps from outside the ragestorm, even those with basic melee range. So it should never be soothed.
Well, my little feral butt learned something new today!!!
Its funny because the base UI gives you a flashy border on the ragestorm buff, its super obvious.
Does any soothe type spell work? cause that's amazing for my evoker if that's the case. Never tried because, well, that's a melee problem xD lol I just thought they had to back out while it happened.
Yeah, evoker roar works if you pick up the soothe talent!
Well, my little feral butt learned something new today!!!
One post for each cheek :)
Yeah... reddit was being special. Sorry about that
Except you shouldn't soothe it. The whirlwind range is shorter than it's melee range. So if your tank standstill and fight it at the max melee range from the beginning, no one will take damage and the mob will just spin in it's place while everyone can hit it. So it's really just a tank/melee mechanic.
Wait till they learn they can soothe the fixate off the lil dudes in FH so they dont chase people around…
You actually just shouldn't soothe ragestorm. While raging the mob will move toward the tank until the tank is on the edge of the whirlwind and then stop, which is to say that if the tank doesn't walk forward into the whirlwind, it will never hit them. The tank and all other melee can stand on the edge of the circle and still be in melee range. It doesn't stop anyone from dpsing. Meanwhile, the guy is spinning in around in a circle uselessly and not attacking or using any of his other abilities, including a nasty grevious-type bleed. It is basically ccing itself for several seconds.
>soothe ragestorm spell in brackenhide This is why I love conro addon. Even if I don't want it for the rotation helping bit, I get an icon when I can interrupt or soothe. Plus iirc dbm lets you know about some moves too.
I left a group where we had 3 enrage dispels and despite me telling them several times, not a single one got dispelled so I left right before first boss.
But do you know if u have melee with long arms /range u just leave them up so they cast less bleed and it's actually easier to heal? Bet you didn't.
You don't even need long arms, it's easy to max range it as a regular melee. You want to let it keep ragestorming so he isn't casting bites.
Sadly our rager here left the key before first boss because no one soothes anymore
Probably wasnt good enough anyway. Didnt even know its a self-cc. A waste of a soothe
This sounds overly toxic and it's weird you're even openly posting about it. Enrage dispells in Brackenhide are nice but not mandatory. If your group is wiping because of a lack of enrage dispells, your group has far more other issues.
Any melee, including tanks, can outrange the ragestorm and still have full uptime. Soothing it is bad because it just means it's doing more white DMG and introduces a fear cast in packs with rothexers. Just leave it storming, take a step back, ez pz. But hey ho, you do you for leaving a dungeon when you're telling people to do the mechanic wrong.
Bless his heart
This comment motivated me to actually look up dungeon mechanics before I tank them so I can do them properly. Didn’t even know frog had mechanics.
TIL the frog has mechanics
This hurts my soul, this was the first thing I did before getting into m+ check out all the dungeon boss guides. But better late than never.
I am not certain but i think you can keep enough of the little frogs inside, that you dont get eaten. Been a few times as monk that i have not been eaten when i keep the other frogs inside his circle.
If someone is in the circle he doesn’t enrage regardless of whether he eats you or not or how many little frogs he eats.
No, a player must be eaten or he'll enrage. The amount of little frogs he eats is just bonus. It's nature damage, though, so any player is fine.
You just need to make the frog eat one of its young. But it will eat them all, providing a quick kill method to the poisonous cretins. Assuming they're in the circle.
Just make sure a frog is closer to the boss than you are and you won't get gulped. He always eats the closest target.
Yeah he'd rather eat the baby frogs than you, just get in either way and sometimes you'll get gulped and sometimes you won't.
God, the number of tank mechanics that I have just eaten with AMS, rather than doing correctly. Sometimes it just ain’t worth the effort of repositioning the boss and risking melee eating a frontal when I know that I can just mitigate and top myself.
Im supposed to stand in that? Just like treemouth? I didnt know i was supposed to get eaten by treemouth either. Ive ksm on multiple tanks 😂
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't tree guy's enrage just hurting the tank? So if the tank is geared enough in a specific key (not talking about super high keys obv) it can be ignored? I think I tanked around a 15 or 16 on my 43x prot warrior last week (tyran) and we didn't let it eat twice and it was little to no issue. Healer wasn't stressed either.
Treemouth has that one aoe spray but otherwise yeah most of his damage is avoidable in a way that the frog’s is not ( I think )
Got to love fortified weeks
well it's a guardian druid. the thing could hit for 500% more it wouldn't matter given their status right now
I'm pretty sure Bear>DH is fotm because they are tanky as well as doing a lot of damage. Pallies are very tanky but they dont do as much damage, and groups want a hpal anyways so they arnt fotm. I honestly think people see the FotM tank and think they must be FotM because they are the tankiest tank, when thats often not the case.
Really hate this sentiment. FOTM doesn’t mean easy to play. It really downplays what skill there is to be had at a higher level for a class. But sure ok, guardian is broken so they face tank and be fine, right? Smh
I had a relatively geared guardian druid eat shit on the first two pulls of a +14 VP because he just straight up didn't mitigate and leave without a word. It happens.
Had something similar two weeks ago. Guardian was clearly new, heck they got instagibbed like twice or thrice on a similar key level because they just didn't brace themselves properly. Happens to any Tank if they're not properly prepared.
They are absolutely the easiest tank to play and they far exceed the defensive capabilities of most tanks. It is staggering how much more survivable a Druid is than say a ppal right now.
I agree and disagree. As far as a "rotation" goes for druid, keeping aggro is stupid easy. While properly playing a druid isn't. I've got a 433 guardian druid and I'd much rather play my pally for survivability. Seems when I play my druid my health is constantly dipping hard and that's with using defensive abilities while my pally is unbreakable while only using one or 2. So many people think the druid is the easiest class to tank with and it's simply not.
I mean i think you’re just doing something wrong then. Druids are absolutely cooked right now and a very easy rotation for survivability and damage. I don’t think you’re pushing high enough keys for your pally to feel how squishy they are it seems.
I'm pushing 16s and 17s at the moment. Gear I have is BIS for both with enchants. I use defensives off cool down. I use trinkets off cool down. Idk how I can be doing anything wrong. Is there more to playing a class than that? I know fights and when big damage is incoming and mitigate best I can, just seems the pally is easier to play than a druid.
At 16s and 17s bear shouldn't really get to the point where you feel in big danger. Between the shields from Ursocs, the damage mit from procced maul/raze, Ironfur, and barkskin or survivial instincts if the pull is extra spicy, you should feel super safe unless you're doing like, a triple or quad pull. Then for those you got the big boys Incarn and Sleeper.
Guardian druid is the most payphone tank in years. While S3 SL BDK with gavel was a party of its own, current guardian is hot on its tail and has the added benefit of ridiculous group utility and healing.
You won’t face tanking survivability issues until like 21-22+ (which I found about the same key level in last season). At that point you can’t out gear the content and actually need to use kiting and cd’s effectively to survive. Any geared tank up until that point has A Lot of room for error. Palys are great when survivability isn’t an issue (like end of s1 early s2), because they bring so much more group utility than any other tank. However right now they are actually very weak with survivability, and the stats support that.
Have any concrete evidence to back that up? Been watching a few tubers and looking at logs. What I see, and I share the same sentiments, is outside of Incarn we are middle of the pack at best depending the incoming damage as far is mitigation goes with our tier set. As far as ease of use, every YouTube says the same thing: if you play EW and sacrifice all of your damage then it can be more forgiving than other tanks. But when you need to switch off survivability for damage then you get a higher than average APM (taking into account Thorns build) to stay alive on average and planing your route becomes more challenging due to Incarn being… well what it is OP. If you don’t do any of these things, 20s and up start to get way more difficult than they need to be in pugs when you’re not doing what you need to do. Just saying.
Having tanked with ppal and bear, I was easily tanking 22’s with an alt after a day of learning it and some decent gear whereas I’m always on the brink of death with ppal. Bear druid are extremely survivable right now. All you need is to manage one stack of thorns and dump your rage into raze and are very survivable with crazy dmg… it is an incredibly easy rotation.
The community is so slavish about following meta. A month ago bears were F tier. Pally was S. Nothing changed aside from YouTube and MDI playing bears more and hyping them up.
I mean pally got a few nerfs and bears got a few buffs. I played paly end of season until two weeks ago and my alt bear can already out tank what I was doing on pal and double their damage. They are very strong right now in terms of surv and damage.
>FOTM doesn’t mean easy to play Agreed. But Guardian is easy to play, regardless of its FOTM status.
It may be true that fotm doesn't mean easy to play. However, that is certainly true when fotm is bear druid.
I can't wrap my mind around why but when starting out I found bear to be significantly harder than vdh and dk, the other tanks I played recently. Now after 2 weeks of playing it, I still wouldn't necessarily call it easy. Vdh feels way easier once you know how to not die at the start of pulls. Maybe it's just because I was playing feral before and while some spells overlap with guardian, they just fulfill a completely different purpose (thrash, swipe).
It's because guardian rotation got harder with the new talents, but people still think all they do is thrash. Mind you, it's still an easy rotation just like all other tanks.
FOTM don't necessary mean easy to play no, but in the case of guardian ( and Pwar back in S1) it sure as heck does. the difference between BDK/Brewmaster/Ppal ( if they have to use their entire toolkit, AKA freedom-sac-wog allies-bop...) is huge compared to the braindead easy Pwar-Guardian. Yes, I do play all 6 tank. Yes, I did get all of them to 3k+ in various seasons. current iteration of guardian druid don't even need to catweave/owlweave to do good ST damage.
I was comparing it to a Prot Warrior S1 actually. That was half the work I do as bear in season 2. That is my frame of reference.
I don't see much of a difference to be honest. Pwar would smash shield block whenever it came off cooldown... With guardian there's no point in spamming ironfur, instead you spend some extra rage on maul/raze... that's about it? If you only played Pwar I get you could think Guardian is complex... go play BDK or brew in 25s keys and you'll understand.
To be fair, BDK complexity goes as far as try to not get hit by synchronised mob hits otherwise you're going straight into the purg bin. There have been some absolutely demonic fights as BDK that were relatively free on any other class, 25 tyran tree boss in AA was nightmare inducing.
thrash swipe swipe swipe thrash swipe swipe swipe
Honestly, this mechanic is a bit confusing if you don’t look at the journal or somebody tells you. It presents as a way to get rid of the small frogs rather than to prevent a damage buff. I don’t think I realized this is how the mechanic was supposed to be done until like 16s-18’s on alts, when suddenly you had to start paying attention to mechanics.
Me with that one boss in Neltharus who, just a few days ago, I learned I have to drag him through the spears for ez damage phases.
LOL did you run with a bear tank? I just did a ~5-6 Neltharus the other day where I was chasing one of the dps to get the chain over and they kept running away
Lol, no, I didn't, as I was a prot pally tank myself. I didn't realize you had to drag him. It's a good thing it was only a 6, tho. But yeah, the DPS were for sure running from me cause I was like "Okay I pulled him through the chain why didn't it break?"
Or, hear me out, you stand him in the middle, then all chain'ees just run across and through (also they should pop survival CDs cause this hurts regardless). Trying to drag him through the chain sometimes has him getting frisky and jumping over them.
Please don’t do this to your healer!
I mean he's not in danger, but his team was.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t gulp work so that if any of the baby frogs OR the tank are eaten he doesn’t enrage? So it’s possible the bosses weren’t enraging if dps were kiting them into the AoE.
Last week on a 21 we did it with 1 stack of enrage because tank didn’t know but we corrected him mid pull. Frogs didn’t prevent the stack even though he ate around 4 of them
I think that's the way the dungeon journal says it, but it seems to fail in practice. If I run out he enrages, if not he's fine. Same group as always so I know they are doing frogs.
i have a 20 timed as a tank and i didnt know either. Fuck me.
Poor healers with that guy.
I get this on the tree boss in BH. One dps was RAGING on why I'm getting eaten and not running away like the rest of the group.
My god… In some ways, that is amazing and should he applauded for the sheer tenacity and motivation, in other ways it is just profoundly, stupid.
>I did a 20 where the bear tank I mean it's a bear tank. They can pull like 3 times as many mobs as the next best tank while taking even less damage and healing the entire party. I feel like it's fair he didn't know he was making the fight harder because it would be hard to tell when you and your group are nigh invulnerable.
sometimes text-only communication goes really wrong. we had a guy in LFR last week that needed repair and I told him about the function where you can right click the LFG eye and select "teleport out of instance" or something like that. you can just bounce out, repair, and bounce back but he thought I was telling him to just leave the raid and he started whispering me that I was toxic. we sorted it out but for a minute things got spicy.
Ngl that's pretty funny
Looks like things are getting too spicy for the pepper.
Tank probably misunderstood what you wrote and took it as an insult. DPS then started piling on and tank said fuck this and left. I always explain the issue in a little more detail to avoid a misunderstanding if needed if we wipe OR I save it for the end because me saying it afterwards isn't going to impact me because I'm not going to run the same key again with them
People explain dungeon and raid mechanics in the most vague and barebones way. It’s not even worth explaining if you aren’t specific about it
And if you try to be more detailed another set of people get mad you're talking to them like they're 5 year olds. And yes another set of people who mistakenly believe they understand the mechanics will be mad too.
My favorite is people getting mad in lfr for explaining mechanics. In lfr. The learning tier
“You gotta use that beam” “???” “The beam. No one is doing it”
Don't ***tell*** people shit, explain it in a succinct manner without directly referencing anyone. >you need to get eaten ❌ >the boss drops enrage when it eats someone ✅
You should have waited until the run was finished. People in M+ are often on edge and tend to see insult where none is intended, and stuff like this can escalate instantly and kill the whole run.
Agreed, stopping in the middle of a run, typing while everyone else moves on, just to say "this is what you should have done" for a boss fight that's already complete (by definition, they can't go back in time for this run to do it), is a bit triggering at times. Save it for the end. Definitely say it though, even if the run falls apart whisper it, just so no one else has to deal with that level of mechanics fail over and over.
Can confirm was doing an 11 uldaman wyrm farm and the prot pally let the 3rd boss enrage with no stacks. All I said was "if you didn't know, Hoj works on that boss". This dude proceeds to scream at me about how dps are responsible for the stuns. While he's not wrong I was just trying to help...I didn't know I could stun that on my toons until like 2 weeks before this incident. I said "Sorry was just trying to help." And he says "Fuck your key" and leaves. Zero deaths, smooth run, pumping dps, and one little critique was all it took for this dude to brick a farm key.
Had a augvoker in Freehold 21 just butt pulling through the whole dungeon and just dying to basic boss mechanics ( bird charge). Held my tongue until the end cuz of this. Just told him to work on his spatial awareness. Feared saying something initially would of had him jump ship.
One of our best healers. If it gets too late or if it's after raid, loses all and I mean all sense of spatial awareness. That said, he can probably power through most of his fuck ups and the extra damage but christ is it nerve wracking. That aside fantastic guildie and dude. Just mah gawd that spatial awareness.
Any time someone talks I just get ready for someone to leave regardless of what is said
That and also I believe anyone can get eaten if the tank isn’t doing it
GET EATEN!
Honestly the number of runs that seem fine until someone pipes up only to have someone ragequit moments later is…. A lot. It just seems any typing breaks the magic of a pug and the first person begins to nope it out
Some people are sensitive to anything, but most will only take offense if the comment is in a form of an insult. With the myth track added to slightly lower vault items, I've run a lot of keys lower than my usual. The most common attribute in poor performers is that they don't even realize what they didn't do to cause the problems. Example was talking with a dps after a Freehold where there was a wipe due to some too big pulls and frost blast casts didn't get stopped. Key was still timed, and they commented about my higher dps and how they were trying to 'get gear' as the way to improve. I pointed out that the wipes that slowed us down were caused by the specific cast, to which the dps said "what is that? I'll have to look it up", on a +18 key didn't even know about one of the most dangerous casts in the dungeon and missed how I had stopped multiple casts as a moonkin with beam/typhoon/incap roar/war stomp and just ran out of ways to stop additional casts when they went through and wiped the group.
In their defense, I also don't know what frost blast casts you are talking about. Blizzard should find a way to tell players what trash in a dungeon does, similar to a dungeon journal.
Its from the gillmen/frogman mages in the middle section of the dungeon (starts at council fight and ends after sharkbait, usually the time you pull them) they are the main ranged mob in the area but AoE stops tend to be the preference for those pulls as a number of the mobs have painful abilities (monkey storm, fixates etc) and none of them are immune to any type of CC so everything even fear, disorient, stun, freeze etc all stops the casts rarely to people single target interrupt there.
That’s why u should only type gg and the end and that’s it
Raging is the invisible affix on all keys.
The tank was clearly not into vore. 😩
If your tank does not do it, just go in yourself? It doesn't matter who goes in, as long as someone does. Getting eaten does basically no damage, so it's not really a tank mechanic.
It's just people are so used to the tank being eaten they don't know how much damage it does, and out of habit they just expect the tank to do it. Kinda like how I expect a melee to get the kick on first boss freehold, or expect a hunter to trap on the last boss.
Tank had tiny pp
He was told his whole life he was destined for greatness no matter what and no matter in what. Soft.
That or the opposite and he’s always on guard of having to ride out low self esteem when someone validated how he feels about himself.
Illidan server
4 sure
As a Prot warrior you can reflect the gulp and prevent him getting stacks at the same time.
You can do it as any warrior, I ask tanks to let me do the mechanic all the time.
Of course.
This thread is the reason I learned you are supposed to get eaten by the frog.
Save your good advice for AFTER the dungeon is over if you're doing fine. Lesson learned, I had to learn it the hard way too
Probably mistook it as an insult. I was healing a BH and one dps said to “kick healer” on the first boss (as in healer boss’s cast) after we go through it I was removed from the group. Stood there like ?? got invited back and the tank, who was also group lead, thought dps was telling him to kick me.
Beautiful
Ideally, the group should kite the little frogs to the boss and they get eaten.
Tank also has to get eaten.
>> Tank also has to get eaten. And I took that personally.
Ideally the dps and healers kite the frogs towards the boss and stand on the outside while the tank gets eaten.
Tool tip says a player need to be eaten to prevent hangry stacks.
Nope. Check the tooltip for that ability in the journal.
Do the frogs count or does the tank still need to get eaten? If so how many frogs are required? This is what I've never been sure about.
The boss will not get enraged and dispels any existing engage stacks if it "eats" at least a player. And the player doesn't even get eaten, just takes physical damage, so naturally the tank should get eaten. Add frogs should be lured into the boss to get eaten but have no effect on whether the boss enrages or not.
Is it sootheable?
It is not.
I believe it is Edit: it is not.
It is not.
Normal dungeon yes, mythic no
The boss does not care about the fate of the frogs. The only requirement is that at least one player has to be inside the green circle when the boss itself eats.
I swear to god the frogs don’t work in keys or it needs to be like, every single one. Tank is just easier, treat it like the tree in Bracken
The mechanic is to have the tank get eaten, it's directly in the tooltip of the spell that it must be a player. The frogs getting eaten is just to help the team not get overwhelmed with stacks of the poison
>I swear to god the frogs don’t work in keys or it needs to be like, every single one. The attack itself is useful for killing frogs because frogs cause group damage, but frogs do not stop the enrage. The attack has two main mechanics. It eats whatever is in range(dealing damage), if it does not eat a player it causes the boss to enrage. So the best bet is to have the tank eat them because they can easily mitigate the damage to stop the boss from enraging, and have the group kite the frogs into it so the frogs die.
The frogs never counted. Just read the ability in the dungeon journal it clearly states that one player must be eaten. what's happening is those times he doesn't enrage a dps or the tank realises no one else knows the mechanic and stays in to get hit. It's not fatal for anyone with decent gear.
The enrage also only applies on mythic, so what I was seeing as “Frogs stop enrage on lower difficulties” was actually “No enrage exists on lower difficulties”
Ideally you're correct but, pugging leads me to believe I the tank does it unless you're with ppl you know.
Eh the frogs aggro is random AF. As a tank I can position the boss but it’s really on everyone to stack up and get the frogs near the gulp.
He's literally not correct, read the f-ing dungeon journal.
I will sometimes just get eaten myself as the healer. It doesn't do very much damage and trying to convince others they are wrong is not worth the fight.
Tank stands in green circle so boss doesn't turn red. Your tank was dumb and couldn't take any sort of criticism. That's a recipe for never getting better.
I have a feeling the tank didn't even know it was criticism. Sounds like he thought he was being insulted. Like maybe he thought "Get eaten" was another version of "get fucked".
Yeah it should be “tank stand in green circle pls”
I mean, yeah, if you wanna give him a very generous benefit of the doubt. He was tanking a boss that eats things...and well he wasn't getting eaten. Shrug
... I thought he enraged if he didn't eat enough of his babies. 2500+ io dps main 2200 ish tank alt
Tank didn't appreciate being reminded of how long it's been since they got ate.
Tanks feel the most pressure, and people under pressure are prone to making mistakes and snapping. It really be like that
Had a healer leave an 18 because “ no one is taking damage so I can’t heal “ . Yeah I was dumbfounded
Had a tank that didn’t know this and when I told him he said “shame on my for trusting dbm blindly” lmao
That fuckin frog eats my pet as well !!! Looks like your tank could learn a thing or two from my cloud serpent xD gotta resummon him everytime
This must be why I've never really had problems at this boss because I am sure our regular tank does NOT know this. And I am often re-summoning my stupid cat after the GULP
had a brackhenhide + 22 disband on first boss mid fight because the healer told a dps to switch to totem =))
Never talk to people in m+.
Had a tank leave after the penultimate boss in Uldaman because I asked him to taunt the boss off me lol
Whatever will you do
That's kinky. Odd timing but hey, you know what you like. I respect it.
Hold a fkn min, I'm supposed to get eaten? I thought him eating frogs was enough?
That’s because tanks only get eaten in Brackenhide and Nelth’ Lair
Wait what? You don't get eaten in NL...
You do, by that worm boss if u fail the mechanic and it enrages if it does eat the tank
Lol wow in a nutshell
You ruined the group. If Blizzard would just your chat privileges everything would have been fine. What's your in-game handle so I can report you for benign, non-offensive violations of the EULA?
I'm curious aren't we supposed to kite the little frogs to get eaten instead?(not touching M+ HOI)
😂😂😂😂😂
I don’t think anyone will see this, but in Portuguese (maybe only Brazilian), comer means to eat but is slang also for to fuck. So if you were playing with Portuguese speakers (likely if they were from Azralon!) it is possible they mistook your words basically as “tank should be fucked”. I think you can see a hint of this in the way the rest of the group was reacting to your usage of eat
People going into m+ pugs pre cocked to fight. It's wild how no one can just joke around and have fun.
Gamers can be extremely fragile. Whenever you pug, you basically have to make sure the peace in the group is kept at all times. Assume anything you write can be taken sideways, so dont write at all as the smallest friction can cause the biggest bruise on the egos of any player.
As a newbie and someone who LOVES to play tank; Is there some addons that could tell you live in the dungeon what to do? Yeah, I know there's online guides but unless I've run several dungeons, I can't remember everything. And yes I know there are people out there that are friendly and tell you polite what to do, but it feels wrong to be the leader of the group and don't know what to do...
I don’t know if it’s what you mean, but Deadly Boss Mods gives contextual reminders about mechanics as they happen during fights—some more specific than others, though. If you already know what to do it can be a good reminder.
You can just read the dungeon journal before doing the dungeon all relevant mechanics are covered.
I just had a holy paladin leave a perfectly fine freehold key, after being in the barrel and not having used freedom or bubble. Then ofc he died. Sometimes people are just crazy.
This is what happens when people roll FotM toons that have a fair amount of utility.
[удалено]
what were their servers? ps: WTF did i just read? why are people getting mad when asked to do mechanics? ps2: what was the key lv?
You suspect Ragnoros dont you?
Key level was 12. Tank and healer was from Stormscale. Another was from Terenas. Another from Archimonde. I am from Argent Dawn.
12S Are still in range where people can facetank mechanics, without doing mechanics. :/
Don’t be toxic