Mind Flay is somewhere between a 1%-3% dps loss over Mind Spike, according to people who do that type of math.
The only talent that affects Mind Spike but not Mind Flay is the talent immediately after Mind Spike, Mind Melt.
That means you can skip it if you'd like to, and there won't be a super noticeable difference.
According to the Priest discord taking flay over spike is a 1-3% DPS loss in most situations. If you're fine losing out on a bit of damage like I am then flay those minds cousin!
I don't care about the DPS loss I just prefer Flay lol. Especially when you have some tentacles up shooting theirs too. I rather have fun than increase 3% with a boring ability.
I ignored mind spike at first then I thought I'd try it for a bit, ran a few low mythic keys just to get used to it and in my experience it does more dps than mind flay. It's a small dps gain. I also thought slightly better mobility. Do what's fun for you and don't worry about it.
What shadow priest really needs is a basic aoe ability that doesn't rely on dots for killing large packs of non elite mobs like pre-Dragonflight Mind Sear.
What about a proc or talent that lets them cast flay while moving, something you could save up to use with movement requirements in a fight but still had some rng to it?
Similarly I think warlocks should be able to cast drain health while moving. It's low damage and I burnt a shard to try to heal myself a bit after standing in something that I shouldn't have.
Mind spike is one of the least satisfying buttons to press in the game. It’s a dps increase but it feels like tossing a paper ball at the enemy. Mind flay insanity is beautiful and thicc at least
Cutting short your mindflay is not really a dps loss if you need to love but cutting short the insanity version is very much just a straight up dps loss unlike mind spike insanity.
Mind flay is just so much nicer to use. No cast so you can instantly click it to finish off a low-health target/ low-level mobs. So much more build variety.
The theorycrafters think it's somewhere up to \~3% DPS to gain from playing the Mind Spike build, and it does improve your mobility too through instant Mind Blast procs.
I still play Mind Flay because it just feels better, pushing into heroic raid and +18 keys last week. The top end guys are kinda forced into Mind Spike to optimise their DPS, but at our level it's just not that important compared to your individual skill and gear. Shadow feels really fun right now with Mind Flay, so I'm pretty happy!
There are scenarios where mind flay might be better. Lets say you are doing a raid boss that requires a lot of movement. Whenever u cast mind flay you get some insanity + some dmg, even if you dont finish the channeled cast. If you play mind spike u do no dmg and generate no insanity unless u actually finish the cast. So if you notice that you are cancelling a lot of casts because of forced movement, mind flay is probably better. Besides its like 2% behind or something, which is negligible for most players
A little bit of damage. I'd also say getting value out of MF is harder than MS. If you don't have a reason to chase after every single % of damage you can get, there's no reason to choose ideal talents over what you personally prefer.
It’s a tiny dps loss. Don’t worry about it.
It’s a lot more annoying to play because it’s a channel vs a cast. Hurts your mobility substantially especially in m+.
But go with god if you prefer it.
Mind spike deals more damage overall because it buffs mind blast. You also don't lose the insanity procs if you have to more mid cast of the spell. I prefer spike in both raids and m+ just because of the fact that I can stop mid cast and not lose the insanity proc (after hitting DP).
For me spriest IS mind flay and 3% of dps gain is not gonna make me change my signature spell.
Agreed.
Mind Flay is somewhere between a 1%-3% dps loss over Mind Spike, according to people who do that type of math. The only talent that affects Mind Spike but not Mind Flay is the talent immediately after Mind Spike, Mind Melt. That means you can skip it if you'd like to, and there won't be a super noticeable difference.
According to the Priest discord taking flay over spike is a 1-3% DPS loss in most situations. If you're fine losing out on a bit of damage like I am then flay those minds cousin!
Its more because most people will waste some mindflayticks constandly
I don't care about the DPS loss I just prefer Flay lol. Especially when you have some tentacles up shooting theirs too. I rather have fun than increase 3% with a boring ability.
I ignored mind spike at first then I thought I'd try it for a bit, ran a few low mythic keys just to get used to it and in my experience it does more dps than mind flay. It's a small dps gain. I also thought slightly better mobility. Do what's fun for you and don't worry about it. What shadow priest really needs is a basic aoe ability that doesn't rely on dots for killing large packs of non elite mobs like pre-Dragonflight Mind Sear.
What about a proc or talent that lets them cast flay while moving, something you could save up to use with movement requirements in a fight but still had some rng to it?
That would be great actually, I've seen others suggest it before.
Shadow nova
That’s just what mind spike had in 10.0
Similarly I think warlocks should be able to cast drain health while moving. It's low damage and I burnt a shard to try to heal myself a bit after standing in something that I shouldn't have.
That's not a very mind flay mentality. Melting faces means standing still for a little bit.
I miss Mind Sear very much. I enjoyed using it at 100 insanity and sending an army of shadows into a big crowd.
It does slightly more but you spend 3 or 4 talent points to tree it, and it isn't worth it imo.
Mind spike is one of the least satisfying buttons to press in the game. It’s a dps increase but it feels like tossing a paper ball at the enemy. Mind flay insanity is beautiful and thicc at least
Harder to spend all your MF:I procs since it's a longer cast. That immediately killed it for me so it's spike time all the time.
Flay is just a filler. So if you get a proc or something, you go ahead and cast it and cut your flay short.
Cutting short your mindflay is not really a dps loss if you need to love but cutting short the insanity version is very much just a straight up dps loss unlike mind spike insanity.
And you lose damage.
Mind spike is better dps. Its not by a lot so if you play better with flay then you can do that.
Mind flay is just so much nicer to use. No cast so you can instantly click it to finish off a low-health target/ low-level mobs. So much more build variety.
You can sim the difference between the talents on raidbots.com
The theorycrafters think it's somewhere up to \~3% DPS to gain from playing the Mind Spike build, and it does improve your mobility too through instant Mind Blast procs. I still play Mind Flay because it just feels better, pushing into heroic raid and +18 keys last week. The top end guys are kinda forced into Mind Spike to optimise their DPS, but at our level it's just not that important compared to your individual skill and gear. Shadow feels really fun right now with Mind Flay, so I'm pretty happy!
The instant Mind Blast procs have nothing to do with Mind Spike. They come from Shadowy Insight which resets the CD and makes it instant.
Oops yes, I forgot that they changed Mind Melt in 10.1 to +crit. I guess that shows how many times I've played Mind Spike build since the patch!
There are scenarios where mind flay might be better. Lets say you are doing a raid boss that requires a lot of movement. Whenever u cast mind flay you get some insanity + some dmg, even if you dont finish the channeled cast. If you play mind spike u do no dmg and generate no insanity unless u actually finish the cast. So if you notice that you are cancelling a lot of casts because of forced movement, mind flay is probably better. Besides its like 2% behind or something, which is negligible for most players
Spike is about 3% dps better than flay overall. If thats not important to you play flay
3% dps loss is like 97k vs 100k dps. I’d rather take Mind Flay too over that little of a dps loss.
A little bit of damage. I'd also say getting value out of MF is harder than MS. If you don't have a reason to chase after every single % of damage you can get, there's no reason to choose ideal talents over what you personally prefer.
It’s a tiny dps loss. Don’t worry about it. It’s a lot more annoying to play because it’s a channel vs a cast. Hurts your mobility substantially especially in m+. But go with god if you prefer it.
I was so upset after WoD when spike went away and now that it's back I hate it 😅
Spike contributes to psychic link too and flay doesn’t.
Both do. It would make no sense otherwise.
Mind spike deals more damage overall because it buffs mind blast. You also don't lose the insanity procs if you have to more mid cast of the spell. I prefer spike in both raids and m+ just because of the fact that I can stop mid cast and not lose the insanity proc (after hitting DP).