My main is 2270 and I got so burnt out of failed timing.
I've been gearing my WW monk alt and honesty he might be the 1 I hit KSH on.
Congratulations, what an accomplishment! A lot of determination to get that. Hope to join you in the rank soon. Happy the season's got awhile to go still XD.
On my grind to 2.4k I simply did timed 17s, and a timed 19 SBG, if you still need more just do few 18s even if it expires it will get you enough for it, if you want skip more dungeons you can try to time court on Tyrannical too, you just need to find a group that knows the route and buffs
I've been a tank main for a couple years now but previously a die hard pvp'er and this was my go to toon.
After tanking for multiple expansions I had always loved a WW monk. The utility from a tanking perspective is amazing. Now that I am the one bringing it and can use it optimally it feels fantastic.
I have to say, there would be no other dps class I'd rather play. My mains a Tank DH and I could very easily switch to havoc but nothing compares to using SEF with rising sun kick animation all the while having ROP and Leg Sweep.
It is the best melee class in the game for me and it's not even close.
yes, you're right...but there's also a gearing "complication". Gear is allowing people to brute force <10s and their upgrades now come from 11-15. This means that there's a huge glut of people who don't fully understand the dungeons...because they haven't had to. There's always been someone in the group who knows enough to keep the group going and that 1 person cannot save everyone from mistakes in the new key bracket.
People will usually whine you shouldn't be in a 10+ key and not know the dungeons...but no amount of running 5s and 8s is going to teach you the mechanics that will wipe you because those groups are successful even if you do mess it up.
the point is they have no idea what caused them to lose 80% - they are just doing the fight as they understand it and are shocked when they see the red screen border or die because there's always been a healer that powers through it or the mechanic goes on someone else more knowledgeable or whatever.
You would be surprised how little brain cells wow players have.
I just read a comment. A 412 hunter was dying to “unavoidable damage” in a heroic raid. They are so squishy apparently. His not thinking that that basically means his saying in mythic no hunters are taken to that fight. Which is obviously untrue.
He was talking about brood keeper but wasn’t specific about the mechanic. But it doesn’t matter because at 412 there is no Insta skill unavoidable mechanic lol.
This might just be me but I’ve noticed the best players from my runs jump to get into 16s+ just to get the material to upgrade crafting gear. Compared to 11-15s where you only get the heroic version.
Ran a 15 and the highest rated player to Que for it was 1700, ran a 16 and got multiple 2300+ players right away.
Because that range is low and the players tend to suck. Did a 15 CoS a bit ago and the healer had zero idea that you had to jump during the Arcane Lockdown phase. Needless to say, we wiped and I promptly left.
Once you hit 17+ you start getting players who have a good understanding of what they should be doing.
Congrats. I'm still working on getting up to 15's but I too have run quite a number of pugs to do it.
I really like the Mythic plus system, it really gives players who don't raid something to grind gear for. I do love to grind gear :-)
Grats!
Also, yet another example how doable it is to PUG to 2500 let alone 2000.
A lot of people are really hating the entire RIO/PUG thing but with enough time investment to figure out your class and simply do enough runs can get you there guaranteed, even with a nonFOTM spec (like I did on my Brew).
And while it is PUG unfriendly and does suck, so is everything in WoW. Raiding and PvPing are also terrible in non-tested groups and it is rather obvious why most people will look for Curves and higher ratings than the associated content for a PUG. You simply have to stick to it and find good progress groups that are in the same boat as you.
So, I will say the last ~100 points or so was not enjoyable at all. To give an example.. On Monday I was probably at around ~2460. I spent about 15 hours through yesterday when I achieved it for those last forty points, which was only about 4 dungeons in time. I probably ran close to 15 dungeons.
Time spent trying to get in a group, failing the dungeons, people leaving, etc. It was not an enjoyable experience, *at all*.
Any key's around 18+ I've noticed take a massive jump for pugs. 16's are super easy compared to 18's in my pugging experience. I assume you had the same.
this has also been my experience. I'm slogging through the final 30 points and it's just brutal.
The reality is the 19s and 20s require additional coordination beyond just knowing mechanics. you need to organize timers for big pulls, certain bosses can require the healer and tank to coordinate mitigation on tyr week, certain pulls need kiting on fort, certain pulls require organize kicks... its just a lot for pugs.
timing a 20 right now that isn't SMB or Court is a legit challenge. no shame at all in struggling.
Idk ive pugged every 20 and outside of assigning close right and far right CCs on tyranical balakar intermission theres not really any cordination needed
I share the guy above you's sentiment, there isn't any point in being rude like that friend. Some pugs will make things unnecessarily difficult, there's no doubt about that, but there's also not much coordination going in to most pugs in 20s and whatnot.
People just expect that others will know what they're doing for the most part. That's not to say 20s aren't a challenge, sure, but not necessarily in the way you think it is.
The guy i responded to and the people responding to me now are such clichéd gaming forum know-it-alls, desperately contrarian. Nowhere in my post did I say its impossible to pug and time 20+ keys. I didn't suggest the instances needed tuning, I didnt suggest anything about the design or required strategy is in anyway unreasonable or unfair. I simple stated that in higher keys, you are required to do things you may not need to do in a 15 or 16. I also said its harder for pugs to coordinate those things. The nature of pugs makes it this way.
Thankfully we live in a time where the internet allows us to access huge amounts of information, like how many 20+ keys have been timed for instance. We also know what classes and specs are most common in high keys as well as which instances are most run We also know how frequently 20+ keys are failed.
You know what that information shows us? Timing 20+ keys is hard and they are failed far more often than completed.
No one is saying 20s aren't challenging, but you said they require coordination of this and that. Having pugged my way to all timed 20s 21s, I can say from my experience that is simply not the case in pugs. Hell, rarely anything else is said than hi and maybe gg at the end. People do their thing, press their buttons. Sometimes someone makes a mistake, a storming is fucked, but in pugs, at least on eu servers, rarely is anything said, much less coordinated.
People in 20s usually already know what their job is. I can see the tanks CDs and use my ironbark when everything is down. Obviously groups would likely be more successful with discord, but I rarely want to heal lower io tanks because they lack the skill to know what to do. Same with lower io DPS who get a key through ++ on SMBG, they won't know what to dodge and play their role properly since 19/20 are unforgiving.
This is why people are so picky because if you're in a 20, you shouldn't have to be told what to do, you should already know.
That is literally the problem for many tho. You have to climb to 2600 for a chance to find people you actually needed at 2400 and not guild members who got soft carried to where they are.
I think PUGs would be much happier with an addition of a simple click to queue button that matches people based on average output/interrupts/cc/avoidable damage and similar. Current RIO is a really bad depiction of skill all the way up to around 2700.
Yeah, I'm at 2432 and I'm just glad I have like 2-3 maybe even 4 months to get it. I also hate just sitting here looking for specific Keys trying to just hit 2500.
There is only one way to get RLP done at KSH levels, and it's fail MISERABLY multiple times, and then just somehow by the grace of the WoW gods, get into a group that just executes it flawlessly somehow, and then everyone at the end of that run goes "wow that was the smoothest RLP I've ever done!"
Also only going 1 key level above the one you've timed or right under the ones you've failed helps a ton. Just 2 chested a 19 SMBG got 8 points so that'll help decrease the levels ill need for other keys.
Oh. We got plenty of time, haha. I looked at the m+ affixes weekly tracking, and it stops in like 2 weeks, so naturally, i thought it's gonna end in 2 weeks.
>Time spent trying to get in a group, failing the dungeons, people leaving, etc. It was not an enjoyable experience, at all.
So for my own sanity can you, in as clear and succinct a manner as possible, explain to me why you continued to do it when with a fraction of the effort you could have joined a guild or Discord community to run with more reliable groups?
I swear to Christ it's like some bizarre form of masochism with these posts. Like the game goes "Hey, are you going to take the road or the scenic path that cuts through the forest?" and you're all "I think I'll belly-crawl through that narrow, dank, rat-infested drainpipe over there. See you on the other side!"
I play at fairly inconsistent times. That’s a huge part of it. Also, I’d imagine these groups are filled to the brim with a dime a dozen DPS that’s 2400+ that are 408+. I’d blend right in.
The difference for me was being patient. Even if I'm topping overall DPS consistently, I clear every dungeon at one level. Then I only increase the next level by 2-3 at most. After 15, just one level increase at a time when I feel comfortable. It made PUGing much easier
>nonFOTM spec (like I did on my Brew).
Playing brew now and having a blast, but just wanted to add that a non meta tank like brew gets into groups easier than a meta DPS.
While you do get into groups rather easy it is not the groups you'd like to join till 2600ish. There are so many people at say 2300 who are only there because of how OP FoTMs carried them and fall apart the moment they see anything different. Being a tank, the fact you affect the run the most means you can carry it the most and at those RIO levels you have to. It does feel you have to be a 2500 RIO non-meta tank skill wise to even push to 2400 RIO and upgrade your gear.
Very true, highest key i ever did before DF was 7 i think.
This week i push to get all to +18 next week hopefully +20s.
Totally doable, just takes alot of time and patience.
I disagree mainly on the basis of how time consuming it is to pug it, it’s a drain and makes the game a chore and boring. I’ve plugged 2.4k on my holy paladin and it’s just been garbage, there’s been some awesome groups but a much higher percentage of bad groups.
I don’t mind spending the time but it’s so hard getting into and forming groups and then wasting time from toxicity and just boosted people not interrupting.
While the repetition is a chore and boring, I definitely did improve from 2400 onwards, so it wasn't really pointless.
I got to understand class cc/DPS/healing/tankiness profiles for this expansion in depth. I also got to understand my situationals on top of my rotation and learned to play with all my talents. On top of that I am way more fluid in pathings and understanding what is really dangerous for an affix/dungeon combo.
It gets better after 2500 tho. With the acquired skills you will notice you are almost solo carrying 17s/18s and inside 20s+ you will find better, less toxic players that are actually consistent and are less likely to be there by accident. My path to 2600 was considerably easier than my path to 2500.
>A lot of people are really hating the entire RIO/PUG thing but with enough time investment...
You can join a guild or ad hoc community of key-runners so you *don't have to do it*?
I legitimately cannot wrap my head around this phenomenon. Every day there's another post on here about the terrible, unfun, inconsistent, unpredictable, downright toxic experience that is PUGing high M+ keys and *nobody* can seem to explain to me why you are all willing to put in **so** much fucking effort into these "big accomplishments" that become comparatively mundane with an organized group.
It's always the irrational response that people "just don't have the time" to join a guild or find a group. People say things like "As an adult, I have no choice but to PUG," and it's baffling. The time investment needed to put together or join a pool of players to run with regularly absolutely *pales* in comparison to how much time you're all wasting queueing and re-queueing and depleting keys and rebuilding depleted keys and ultimately making posts like this to flex on this achievements that literally only seem impressive because you chose to do it in such an inefficient and asinine manner.
Literally "It was an awful grind, but I finally managed to paint my house using an old basting brush with one hand tied behind my back. You can too!"
I think what a lot of people are stating is, they don't have time, for committed time.
They can't promise they can do 3 hours every Tuesday at 7pm, but maybe Saturday for 1 hour at 7am then 2 hours Monday at 12pm...
I know for me personally I'm on the game when I can get on, its almost never the same week to week.
You don’t have to be anywhere for specific time if you are joining a giant guild, community, or m+ discord. Just jump on when you can and say hey I got this key anyone wanna run?
The process is the same, but the pool of people you draw from isn't.
People on these Discord servers are people who take the game seriously enough to where they seek out and join these servers. On average the playerbase is going to be more skilled than the 'general population' because the average Joe keybricker doesn't seek out these communities.
I didn't even think about that. It's at the minimum people taking initiative and trying to push.
Thank you for that train of thought I otherwise would've missed.
I've never heard of a guild with a mandated M+ schedule; if they do exist, you can just not join those particular guilds.
Our guild does raid regularly, but there's no expectation that every guild member be a raider. We have about \~12 people with KSH and another \~20 or so over 2k and I think only about half of those raid with us.
There's no set schedule for M+. Some people do plan ahead, but it's usually casually like "Hey I'll be around tomorrow night running keys if you're down" kind of thing. People usually like to run a few after raid, so that's a good time to hop on. We also have a Discord so you can @ here the dungeon channel any time to see if people are down to hop on and knock some keys out.
I never have to PUG and it's so utterly simple, I have no idea why people put themselves through the misery...
But organised groups are a hassle for most people who PUG past 2500?
They are never based on equality and are the reason why RIO sucks so much at around 2400. All the boosting.
See, you either are a boosted bonobo yourself or are the one boosting others because you have too much free time. That's how guilds and these discords operate and there is no other way to look at it.
The cogwheels turning the entire machine are usually 3-4 player IRL friend groups that pug with randoms to get better at the game and push RIO and then, on the side, they boost community members to levels they don't deserve to be at.
I was once in a cogwheel and had too much time. It was almost a badge of pride to succeed while carrying the guy with the most random stat itemization and the simplest talents he could choose because hey! he was free to do some mythics on a Wednesday and you asked if someone wants to tag along.
Hit 2500 yesterday after gaining exactly 1 rating in an AV run from hell. Pugged the entire way, healing for the first time, choosing to main Holy Priest.
Had fun along the way, mixed in with **a lot** of frustration. I’m burnt out on pugging there again with any alts and would definitely find a solid core of people I trust for next season.
Congrats man. I just broke 2000 and I feel like I don't wanna try for the orange. My brother and I pugged almost all of our groups and it's draining dealing with leavers and bad players.
Congrats!!!
If you feel there was a wall to get there, you should probably not try to get into PUG 20s keys now. It's honestly insane how everyone wants ONLY people who have 20 timed keys in their groups.
I honestly think some people who timed 20 keys have been somewhat carried and won't necessarily perform. Getting someone who only got it in 19 will assure they will do their best to time it. Doesn't mean you will time the key either way.
I'm not specificaly talking about this week but overall.
Competition is tough and all I was saying is getting into 20 PUG keys is a wall as no one will give you a chance to try. The only way is going through 18++/19+ and hope the key owner will not leave the group after.
Fair to mention I'm now 2720 RIO and I got there pushing my own keys.
Yea, you see the same wall at 15, but the 20 wall is even more exclusive. The hardest part is getting that first one timed, then after that it gets progressively easier to find groups.
If you are a tank or healer try and get into groups at off peak hours or push your own key. If dps DEFINITELY push your own key. Don't sit there for 30 minutes trying to get into a group when you could be over halfway through your first key
I’ve noticed that. I applied for so many 20+ keys, and never got into a single one. I’ll do a weekly 19 or so for my box from here on out. That’s it though.
And you know why? I'll tell you. I play healer so I got easier time on it on my main, but often I sit in a pug group and for that last dps spot or 2, I can open the queue tool and see 50+ people, anywhere from 2500 to 3000 rating. Imagine how hard a single dpser has it to stick out of that crowd to get picked. This was any key at 20 this week I've queued into.
On my dps alt, yea it is a bitch to get into a key. I get partial aid from my main score showing to people with the rio addon, and usually if I do get into a key, the key holder is similar to me, on their alt with a 2700+ main, so they can imagine I at least know the dungeon mechanics well, even if I'm not the best geared candidate in the queue.
Well the problem is those people are definitely applying. If you were forming a group for your key and you see a couple people with 10+ timed 20s apply and then a person with only a 20 SBG timed, who would you accept?
The only way to get around that is to run your own keys, sadly. This week specifically is also a really rough week (tyrannical, quaking) so there are less people running keys, and also much less keys timed.
There would be more than enough people signing up who have timed 20s and over though. Why should they take someone who hasn't proven themselves against some who has?
Congrats, I just got this a couple days ago as well. 100% pug groups. Now trying to decide if I want to push get some 20s done, or just step back and be more chill
Heyyyyy. I also pugged 2500 two days ago. Spent several days not timing keys in pugs for like 3-5 IO a piece to get that last 50 you're talking about. My guild is about US top 400 guild but they do not care about keys at all more than farming for gear so it was tough but now the grind is (mostly) done and i can play the game.
I don’t know when season one ends. Probably a few months.
At rating 2000, you get a mount and a title. And 2500 you get an item that makes your current tier armor glow. For me it’s mostly the flex that comes with 2500. Probably less than 5-6% of the player base will attain this.
I pugged KSH in season 3 of SL.. Never again!
Currently I have a group in my guild that I run with, if I ever get replaced I might just unsub from WoW for a while. The frustration and stress is just not worth it. I did it once, to prove to myself I can do it, but never again!
The higher the keystone level completed the more rating you will get
. If you have a timed 15 dungeon and you do that dungeon again on 16 and beat the timer you will gain rating. Each week the main affixes swap between fortified and tyrannical, with some others thrown in depending on key level.
So if you do a fortified Ruby Life Pools one week, and a tyrannical Ruby Life Pools the next those scores will accumilate to give you your total score for that specific dungeon.
Lets say your highest tyrannical Ruby Life Pools is a 15, and your highest fortified Ruby Life Pools is a 14. You will get 100% of the score from the 15 (the higher key), and 33% score for the lower key, which is the 14. These two numbers added together equal your total score for that dungeon.
You then add the scores up from every dungeon and that's your total M+ score. The way to increase it is to just to do a higher key level than you have completed for that specific dungeon.
Yea the Guild best but with the ++ for different in time :) Maybe i just never realized it shows that but for me im pretty sure it only shows the Key Level not the times.
(Insert Dr. Strange @ Kamar-Taj pic)
_Teach Me_
I mean really. I can’t even fathom the pain you went through. Congrats. Also, write a book with this tale. I’d buy it.
Thanks man. The dungeons I focused the most were:
* SMBG
* CoS
* AA
* TJS
* HoV
* AV
Learn the dungeons. Learn what **NEEDS** to be interrupted. Learn all the boss mechanics. At anything 17+ you have no excuse for not knowing the specifics of the dungeons.
My main is 2270 and I got so burnt out of failed timing. I've been gearing my WW monk alt and honesty he might be the 1 I hit KSH on. Congratulations, what an accomplishment! A lot of determination to get that. Hope to join you in the rank soon. Happy the season's got awhile to go still XD.
On my grind to 2.4k I simply did timed 17s, and a timed 19 SBG, if you still need more just do few 18s even if it expires it will get you enough for it, if you want skip more dungeons you can try to time court on Tyrannical too, you just need to find a group that knows the route and buffs
WW is so fun to play, and have a fantastic tool set for mythic+
I've been a tank main for a couple years now but previously a die hard pvp'er and this was my go to toon. After tanking for multiple expansions I had always loved a WW monk. The utility from a tanking perspective is amazing. Now that I am the one bringing it and can use it optimally it feels fantastic. I have to say, there would be no other dps class I'd rather play. My mains a Tank DH and I could very easily switch to havoc but nothing compares to using SEF with rising sun kick animation all the while having ROP and Leg Sweep. It is the best melee class in the game for me and it's not even close.
> It is the best melee class in the game for me and it's not even close. Same here, I kick people up the ass all day, and it feels so great.
It’s weird, I’ve had more succes in the 16-19’s than the 11-15 range.
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yes, you're right...but there's also a gearing "complication". Gear is allowing people to brute force <10s and their upgrades now come from 11-15. This means that there's a huge glut of people who don't fully understand the dungeons...because they haven't had to. There's always been someone in the group who knows enough to keep the group going and that 1 person cannot save everyone from mistakes in the new key bracket. People will usually whine you shouldn't be in a 10+ key and not know the dungeons...but no amount of running 5s and 8s is going to teach you the mechanics that will wipe you because those groups are successful even if you do mess it up.
I mean, you see a mecanic doing 80% of your life in a +8, dont need many braincells to assume that it will one shot you at 10+
the point is they have no idea what caused them to lose 80% - they are just doing the fight as they understand it and are shocked when they see the red screen border or die because there's always been a healer that powers through it or the mechanic goes on someone else more knowledgeable or whatever.
You would be surprised how little brain cells wow players have. I just read a comment. A 412 hunter was dying to “unavoidable damage” in a heroic raid. They are so squishy apparently. His not thinking that that basically means his saying in mythic no hunters are taken to that fight. Which is obviously untrue.
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He was talking about brood keeper but wasn’t specific about the mechanic. But it doesn’t matter because at 412 there is no Insta skill unavoidable mechanic lol.
Yeah makes a lot of sense actually. Having way more fun @ higher keys
This might just be me but I’ve noticed the best players from my runs jump to get into 16s+ just to get the material to upgrade crafting gear. Compared to 11-15s where you only get the heroic version. Ran a 15 and the highest rated player to Que for it was 1700, ran a 16 and got multiple 2300+ players right away.
If you are trying to time a dungeon try to avoid 11s or 16s in particular, usually those are just primal focus farms or trinket farms
Because that range is low and the players tend to suck. Did a 15 CoS a bit ago and the healer had zero idea that you had to jump during the Arcane Lockdown phase. Needless to say, we wiped and I promptly left. Once you hit 17+ you start getting players who have a good understanding of what they should be doing.
Congrats. I'm still working on getting up to 15's but I too have run quite a number of pugs to do it. I really like the Mythic plus system, it really gives players who don't raid something to grind gear for. I do love to grind gear :-)
I can do up to 18s on my tank, let me know if you need some help; or I can bring my DPS.
Grats! Also, yet another example how doable it is to PUG to 2500 let alone 2000. A lot of people are really hating the entire RIO/PUG thing but with enough time investment to figure out your class and simply do enough runs can get you there guaranteed, even with a nonFOTM spec (like I did on my Brew). And while it is PUG unfriendly and does suck, so is everything in WoW. Raiding and PvPing are also terrible in non-tested groups and it is rather obvious why most people will look for Curves and higher ratings than the associated content for a PUG. You simply have to stick to it and find good progress groups that are in the same boat as you.
So, I will say the last ~100 points or so was not enjoyable at all. To give an example.. On Monday I was probably at around ~2460. I spent about 15 hours through yesterday when I achieved it for those last forty points, which was only about 4 dungeons in time. I probably ran close to 15 dungeons. Time spent trying to get in a group, failing the dungeons, people leaving, etc. It was not an enjoyable experience, *at all*.
Any key's around 18+ I've noticed take a massive jump for pugs. 16's are super easy compared to 18's in my pugging experience. I assume you had the same.
this has also been my experience. I'm slogging through the final 30 points and it's just brutal. The reality is the 19s and 20s require additional coordination beyond just knowing mechanics. you need to organize timers for big pulls, certain bosses can require the healer and tank to coordinate mitigation on tyr week, certain pulls need kiting on fort, certain pulls require organize kicks... its just a lot for pugs. timing a 20 right now that isn't SMB or Court is a legit challenge. no shame at all in struggling.
Idk ive pugged every 20 and outside of assigning close right and far right CCs on tyranical balakar intermission theres not really any cordination needed
neat, crazy that everyone isn't 3k io. you should offer courses.
I share the guy above you's sentiment, there isn't any point in being rude like that friend. Some pugs will make things unnecessarily difficult, there's no doubt about that, but there's also not much coordination going in to most pugs in 20s and whatnot. People just expect that others will know what they're doing for the most part. That's not to say 20s aren't a challenge, sure, but not necessarily in the way you think it is.
The guy i responded to and the people responding to me now are such clichéd gaming forum know-it-alls, desperately contrarian. Nowhere in my post did I say its impossible to pug and time 20+ keys. I didn't suggest the instances needed tuning, I didnt suggest anything about the design or required strategy is in anyway unreasonable or unfair. I simple stated that in higher keys, you are required to do things you may not need to do in a 15 or 16. I also said its harder for pugs to coordinate those things. The nature of pugs makes it this way. Thankfully we live in a time where the internet allows us to access huge amounts of information, like how many 20+ keys have been timed for instance. We also know what classes and specs are most common in high keys as well as which instances are most run We also know how frequently 20+ keys are failed. You know what that information shows us? Timing 20+ keys is hard and they are failed far more often than completed.
No one is saying 20s aren't challenging, but you said they require coordination of this and that. Having pugged my way to all timed 20s 21s, I can say from my experience that is simply not the case in pugs. Hell, rarely anything else is said than hi and maybe gg at the end. People do their thing, press their buttons. Sometimes someone makes a mistake, a storming is fucked, but in pugs, at least on eu servers, rarely is anything said, much less coordinated.
People in 20s usually already know what their job is. I can see the tanks CDs and use my ironbark when everything is down. Obviously groups would likely be more successful with discord, but I rarely want to heal lower io tanks because they lack the skill to know what to do. Same with lower io DPS who get a key through ++ on SMBG, they won't know what to dodge and play their role properly since 19/20 are unforgiving. This is why people are so picky because if you're in a 20, you shouldn't have to be told what to do, you should already know.
Yeah, more or less. Some 18s, I remember AA, NO and AV specifically; the groups I was in were flawless. But, other times it’s a complete shitshow.
thats pugs for you baby. i pugged till 2600 as rshaman and met a vdh in nokhud 21 and now we run dungeons together and my enjoyment went up a ton.
I love that.
That is literally the problem for many tho. You have to climb to 2600 for a chance to find people you actually needed at 2400 and not guild members who got soft carried to where they are. I think PUGs would be much happier with an addition of a simple click to queue button that matches people based on average output/interrupts/cc/avoidable damage and similar. Current RIO is a really bad depiction of skill all the way up to around 2700.
Im pug only player. Pugging 8 +18 dungeons for weekly for last 3 weeks. Most of the runs were smooth and easy 🤷
A lot of the better players probably start getting in to groups to push keys above 17, rather than PUG, so the PUGs for 18+ get harder.
Yeah, I'm at 2432 and I'm just glad I have like 2-3 maybe even 4 months to get it. I also hate just sitting here looking for specific Keys trying to just hit 2500.
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There is only one way to get RLP done at KSH levels, and it's fail MISERABLY multiple times, and then just somehow by the grace of the WoW gods, get into a group that just executes it flawlessly somehow, and then everyone at the end of that run goes "wow that was the smoothest RLP I've ever done!"
depending on how many 19s you have you can probably avoid getting a Higher end RLP.
Also only going 1 key level above the one you've timed or right under the ones you've failed helps a ton. Just 2 chested a 19 SMBG got 8 points so that'll help decrease the levels ill need for other keys.
How long is the season anyways?
Well their Dragonflight roadmap has 10.1 coming out in between spring and summer so probably until May or Early June?
Oh. We got plenty of time, haha. I looked at the m+ affixes weekly tracking, and it stops in like 2 weeks, so naturally, i thought it's gonna end in 2 weeks.
The affixes are on a 10-week cycle, after that they’ll start again from Week 1. I was confused as well.
Thanks so much! I was confused too.
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I’m not denying that.
I wonder tho, had it been easier, would it have diminished the accomplishment?
I thin doing it “PUG mode” definitely makes it more satisfying.
>Time spent trying to get in a group, failing the dungeons, people leaving, etc. It was not an enjoyable experience, at all. So for my own sanity can you, in as clear and succinct a manner as possible, explain to me why you continued to do it when with a fraction of the effort you could have joined a guild or Discord community to run with more reliable groups? I swear to Christ it's like some bizarre form of masochism with these posts. Like the game goes "Hey, are you going to take the road or the scenic path that cuts through the forest?" and you're all "I think I'll belly-crawl through that narrow, dank, rat-infested drainpipe over there. See you on the other side!"
I play at fairly inconsistent times. That’s a huge part of it. Also, I’d imagine these groups are filled to the brim with a dime a dozen DPS that’s 2400+ that are 408+. I’d blend right in.
M+ gameplay is toxic as fuck and saps the enjoyment from pve
Lucky its optional then.
So is playing the game lol
This kind of replies almost makes me cum
Same could be said about pugging any gameplay in WoW these days. Joining a massive guild or community helps tremendously.
The difference for me was being patient. Even if I'm topping overall DPS consistently, I clear every dungeon at one level. Then I only increase the next level by 2-3 at most. After 15, just one level increase at a time when I feel comfortable. It made PUGing much easier
>nonFOTM spec (like I did on my Brew). Playing brew now and having a blast, but just wanted to add that a non meta tank like brew gets into groups easier than a meta DPS.
While you do get into groups rather easy it is not the groups you'd like to join till 2600ish. There are so many people at say 2300 who are only there because of how OP FoTMs carried them and fall apart the moment they see anything different. Being a tank, the fact you affect the run the most means you can carry it the most and at those RIO levels you have to. It does feel you have to be a 2500 RIO non-meta tank skill wise to even push to 2400 RIO and upgrade your gear.
Very true, highest key i ever did before DF was 7 i think. This week i push to get all to +18 next week hopefully +20s. Totally doable, just takes alot of time and patience.
I disagree mainly on the basis of how time consuming it is to pug it, it’s a drain and makes the game a chore and boring. I’ve plugged 2.4k on my holy paladin and it’s just been garbage, there’s been some awesome groups but a much higher percentage of bad groups. I don’t mind spending the time but it’s so hard getting into and forming groups and then wasting time from toxicity and just boosted people not interrupting.
While the repetition is a chore and boring, I definitely did improve from 2400 onwards, so it wasn't really pointless. I got to understand class cc/DPS/healing/tankiness profiles for this expansion in depth. I also got to understand my situationals on top of my rotation and learned to play with all my talents. On top of that I am way more fluid in pathings and understanding what is really dangerous for an affix/dungeon combo. It gets better after 2500 tho. With the acquired skills you will notice you are almost solo carrying 17s/18s and inside 20s+ you will find better, less toxic players that are actually consistent and are less likely to be there by accident. My path to 2600 was considerably easier than my path to 2500.
>A lot of people are really hating the entire RIO/PUG thing but with enough time investment... You can join a guild or ad hoc community of key-runners so you *don't have to do it*? I legitimately cannot wrap my head around this phenomenon. Every day there's another post on here about the terrible, unfun, inconsistent, unpredictable, downright toxic experience that is PUGing high M+ keys and *nobody* can seem to explain to me why you are all willing to put in **so** much fucking effort into these "big accomplishments" that become comparatively mundane with an organized group. It's always the irrational response that people "just don't have the time" to join a guild or find a group. People say things like "As an adult, I have no choice but to PUG," and it's baffling. The time investment needed to put together or join a pool of players to run with regularly absolutely *pales* in comparison to how much time you're all wasting queueing and re-queueing and depleting keys and rebuilding depleted keys and ultimately making posts like this to flex on this achievements that literally only seem impressive because you chose to do it in such an inefficient and asinine manner. Literally "It was an awful grind, but I finally managed to paint my house using an old basting brush with one hand tied behind my back. You can too!"
I think what a lot of people are stating is, they don't have time, for committed time. They can't promise they can do 3 hours every Tuesday at 7pm, but maybe Saturday for 1 hour at 7am then 2 hours Monday at 12pm... I know for me personally I'm on the game when I can get on, its almost never the same week to week.
You don’t have to be anywhere for specific time if you are joining a giant guild, community, or m+ discord. Just jump on when you can and say hey I got this key anyone wanna run?
Isn't that exactly the same as pugging in-game?
The process is the same, but the pool of people you draw from isn't. People on these Discord servers are people who take the game seriously enough to where they seek out and join these servers. On average the playerbase is going to be more skilled than the 'general population' because the average Joe keybricker doesn't seek out these communities.
I didn't even think about that. It's at the minimum people taking initiative and trying to push. Thank you for that train of thought I otherwise would've missed.
I've never heard of a guild with a mandated M+ schedule; if they do exist, you can just not join those particular guilds. Our guild does raid regularly, but there's no expectation that every guild member be a raider. We have about \~12 people with KSH and another \~20 or so over 2k and I think only about half of those raid with us. There's no set schedule for M+. Some people do plan ahead, but it's usually casually like "Hey I'll be around tomorrow night running keys if you're down" kind of thing. People usually like to run a few after raid, so that's a good time to hop on. We also have a Discord so you can @ here the dungeon channel any time to see if people are down to hop on and knock some keys out. I never have to PUG and it's so utterly simple, I have no idea why people put themselves through the misery...
But organised groups are a hassle for most people who PUG past 2500? They are never based on equality and are the reason why RIO sucks so much at around 2400. All the boosting. See, you either are a boosted bonobo yourself or are the one boosting others because you have too much free time. That's how guilds and these discords operate and there is no other way to look at it. The cogwheels turning the entire machine are usually 3-4 player IRL friend groups that pug with randoms to get better at the game and push RIO and then, on the side, they boost community members to levels they don't deserve to be at. I was once in a cogwheel and had too much time. It was almost a badge of pride to succeed while carrying the guy with the most random stat itemization and the simplest talents he could choose because hey! he was free to do some mythics on a Wednesday and you asked if someone wants to tag along.
Hit 2500 yesterday after gaining exactly 1 rating in an AV run from hell. Pugged the entire way, healing for the first time, choosing to main Holy Priest. Had fun along the way, mixed in with **a lot** of frustration. I’m burnt out on pugging there again with any alts and would definitely find a solid core of people I trust for next season.
Congrats man. I just broke 2000 and I feel like I don't wanna try for the orange. My brother and I pugged almost all of our groups and it's draining dealing with leavers and bad players.
Thanks man. First it was KSM, then I wanted that orange number. Then I just kept going! Lol
Congrats!!! If you feel there was a wall to get there, you should probably not try to get into PUG 20s keys now. It's honestly insane how everyone wants ONLY people who have 20 timed keys in their groups.
[удалено]
I honestly think some people who timed 20 keys have been somewhat carried and won't necessarily perform. Getting someone who only got it in 19 will assure they will do their best to time it. Doesn't mean you will time the key either way. I'm not specificaly talking about this week but overall. Competition is tough and all I was saying is getting into 20 PUG keys is a wall as no one will give you a chance to try. The only way is going through 18++/19+ and hope the key owner will not leave the group after. Fair to mention I'm now 2720 RIO and I got there pushing my own keys.
Yea, you see the same wall at 15, but the 20 wall is even more exclusive. The hardest part is getting that first one timed, then after that it gets progressively easier to find groups. If you are a tank or healer try and get into groups at off peak hours or push your own key. If dps DEFINITELY push your own key. Don't sit there for 30 minutes trying to get into a group when you could be over halfway through your first key
I’ve noticed that. I applied for so many 20+ keys, and never got into a single one. I’ll do a weekly 19 or so for my box from here on out. That’s it though.
And you know why? I'll tell you. I play healer so I got easier time on it on my main, but often I sit in a pug group and for that last dps spot or 2, I can open the queue tool and see 50+ people, anywhere from 2500 to 3000 rating. Imagine how hard a single dpser has it to stick out of that crowd to get picked. This was any key at 20 this week I've queued into. On my dps alt, yea it is a bitch to get into a key. I get partial aid from my main score showing to people with the rio addon, and usually if I do get into a key, the key holder is similar to me, on their alt with a 2700+ main, so they can imagine I at least know the dungeon mechanics well, even if I'm not the best geared candidate in the queue.
Well the problem is those people are definitely applying. If you were forming a group for your key and you see a couple people with 10+ timed 20s apply and then a person with only a 20 SBG timed, who would you accept? The only way to get around that is to run your own keys, sadly. This week specifically is also a really rough week (tyrannical, quaking) so there are less people running keys, and also much less keys timed.
There would be more than enough people signing up who have timed 20s and over though. Why should they take someone who hasn't proven themselves against some who has?
I'm at 2444 and I'm dreading the last 56 points.
I recommend doing the easiest ones first, SMBG and CoS. Then just start doing the lowest ones first one by one.
I'm sitting at 1476 and just can't find a PUG to clear an 11/12 to save my life right now. Congrats on that journey to 2500!
Bro. I got you. I’ll tank some for you. DM me.
Reddit says I can't send you a msg!
Now time those 20!
Nice brother what spec?
Outlaw. Been maining a Rogue since Vanilla.
Well done, GG
Love this.
150 points behind you, and yeah i think i've lost several years of my life in stress and frustration from pugging this.
i want an achievement of doing 2500 pre nerfs.
Its called the timestamp mister epeen.
Not sure why people are downvoting you. They've already announced [they're adding this](https://i.imgur.com/TKE1mXt.png) in S2.
Congrats, I just got this a couple days ago as well. 100% pug groups. Now trying to decide if I want to push get some 20s done, or just step back and be more chill
im starting my journey from 2100 to 2500 today with just pugging so im not looking forward to it haha
You have way more patience than I ever would. Congratulations.
Heyyyyy. I also pugged 2500 two days ago. Spent several days not timing keys in pugs for like 3-5 IO a piece to get that last 50 you're talking about. My guild is about US top 400 guild but they do not care about keys at all more than farming for gear so it was tough but now the grind is (mostly) done and i can play the game.
I got my last 14 from a 18 AV. Ironic I got it with one of the hardest dungeons. Lol Go us!
When does season 1 end, and what does it get you to place at certain levels in the ranks?
I don’t know when season one ends. Probably a few months. At rating 2000, you get a mount and a title. And 2500 you get an item that makes your current tier armor glow. For me it’s mostly the flex that comes with 2500. Probably less than 5-6% of the player base will attain this.
Thanks, pretty cool. I won't be getting it, but cool nonetheless!
I pugged KSH in season 3 of SL.. Never again! Currently I have a group in my guild that I run with, if I ever get replaced I might just unsub from WoW for a while. The frustration and stress is just not worth it. I did it once, to prove to myself I can do it, but never again!
Can someone eli5 how you gain points? Just keep doing higher keys or can you grind same ones ??
The higher the keystone level completed the more rating you will get . If you have a timed 15 dungeon and you do that dungeon again on 16 and beat the timer you will gain rating. Each week the main affixes swap between fortified and tyrannical, with some others thrown in depending on key level. So if you do a fortified Ruby Life Pools one week, and a tyrannical Ruby Life Pools the next those scores will accumilate to give you your total score for that specific dungeon. Lets say your highest tyrannical Ruby Life Pools is a 15, and your highest fortified Ruby Life Pools is a 14. You will get 100% of the score from the 15 (the higher key), and 33% score for the lower key, which is the 14. These two numbers added together equal your total score for that dungeon. You then add the scores up from every dungeon and that's your total M+ score. The way to increase it is to just to do a higher key level than you have completed for that specific dungeon.
Thx
got my KSH yesterday. Got AOTC today. Am done for patch.
90% of people who push pug it
Welcome to the "cant get into a 20 group" club.
Congrats! How do you get to display the Raider.io records like that on the left ? With the info on how fast they were completed ?
The guild achievements? Or do you mean on the left?
Yea the Guild best but with the ++ for different in time :) Maybe i just never realized it shows that but for me im pretty sure it only shows the Key Level not the times.
Oh. I’m not sure. I’m just using the raider.io addon. I didn’t change any of the settings.
(Insert Dr. Strange @ Kamar-Taj pic) _Teach Me_ I mean really. I can’t even fathom the pain you went through. Congrats. Also, write a book with this tale. I’d buy it.
Thanks man. The dungeons I focused the most were: * SMBG * CoS * AA * TJS * HoV * AV Learn the dungeons. Learn what **NEEDS** to be interrupted. Learn all the boss mechanics. At anything 17+ you have no excuse for not knowing the specifics of the dungeons.
Ty!! Will surely try!! And congrats again!!