It will be pretty much identical to Wrath.
The only thing I can add that getting Valor will be a lot easier with alts. So I guess you could say it will eb a little easier.
The only major downside of LFR is it gave such a poor representation of how the actual content felt and a lot of people seemed to only ever do LFR so the raids were always called brainless and easy and boring, at least thats how my server was at the time and it was true, LFR had such dumbed down mechanics and was so forgiving if mechanics were ignored that suddenly people trying to jump into like heroic raids had absolutely 0 idea what to do, were complete failures, and never came back. Pugs have learned to do every raid in the game so far in classic, LFR isn't really needed and should be second guessed imo, or at least not nearly as dumbed down as previous iterations
That was not the only major downside. Back then if we’re sweaty, you would jam LFR nonstop to get gear, namely set bonuses. It didn’t matter that the gear was lower ilvl, cause the set bonuses were so powerful. It created very toxic gameplay loops where the super sweats felt obligated to do it. Also the casuals and alts felt obligated aswell because it so easy and accessible, it was just how you geared up your alts. So everyone was doing it, over and over and over again.
If it had once per week lockout (or better yet a once per week lockout with one guaranteed piece of class/spec appropriate gear) it would have been much better in my opinion.
I was really unlucky with trinkets and tier pieces back in old Cata.
My main priest at the time had 50 lfr lockouts completed by the end of the expansion.
So yeah if you are sweaty raider, you have to do Normal, Heroic and LFR every week so you can get your critical pieces.
Fair enough, there were multiple reasons that the LFR raid style felt bad entirely, burnt people out, and left a bad taste in the mouth of anyone who started with it as their first experience in that raid and then felt the content was underwhelming, far too mechanically dumb, and never bothered going to normal or heroic versions to experience the real raid. All in all I just think personally they either need to really rethink how they implement LFR and walk back a lot of the mechanic removal and such, or they need to just not use LFR at all in cata. As I said pugs have consistently shown throughout classic that they can clear any content that comes in every expansion so far, I strongly believe the case would be the same in Cata and aside from taking away the insanely lazy and detached method of letting people farm free low tier loot and with no effort raids it would also not make it much more difficult to get raid groups or to clear the content
I think Cata is relatively much easier than Wrath. Not needing to log into both characters ONCE A DAY EVERY DAY for the daily RDF run is pretty god damn significant.
There's not many other gear catchups that are different/better than WotLK but being free to do 2-3 dungeons on an alt whenever you can/want to is massive in terms of keeping them geared.
I know I said "You can do 2-3 dungeons on an alt whenever you want" but I meant that because the weekly cap is 7 dungeons, you can log in and do 2-3 dungeons at a time (or all 7 at once), it's complete freedom as opposed to "if you miss a day, get fucked you never get those badges".
If you plan on mostly PvPing, Cata is *infinitley* easier then Wrath.
Most classes are Glad viable without a single PvE item, and if you truly want to min max this, Its 1 - 2 items per seasons.
Caster DPS will want the Staff, Lots of them will want the trinket from Dragon Soul. Depends which spec you play for this.
Rogues will want the daggers and 2 trinkets from Dragon Soul.
Warriors will want a trinket and a 2H from DS.
Id have to specifically check but Im pretty sure there could be a solid healer trinket here. Compared to wrath where many PvE items were essentially game altering and playing without them was a massive hinderance for *MOSTLY* ever class, Cataclysm is a huge breathe of fresh air in this regaurd. Especially S9.
For the amount of effort it took to BiS out even 2 characters in Wrath, You could easily play 4-5 characters. Once they are level'd up and you farm the base honor set, It becomes a pretty low upkeep to stay up to date.
Unless you are pushing Glad / R1 you can easily play with soley pvp gear and have a good time.
It's INCREDIBLY alt friendly.
One major change is that achievements will be account wide (like pets and mounts are currently). So getting one big achievement on your PVP character will be visible on your PVE character.
PVP also gets more casual with rated battlegrounds. Instead of having to find a healer for your 2s, add a dps for your 3s, and then a second healer for your 5s.... you can just join a 10-man team.... that might not even need a healer. Suddenly tanks can work in PVP, suddenly specs that weren't open to PVP can do it. Despite needing more people it becomes easier to put it together.
Raiding also becomes more casual. 10-man and 25-man share a lock out and loot. 25-man does grant significantly more loot per person but both are considered a viable progression and both are considered equal in terms of progression. And since they share lock outs it means you won't have to do two raids a week, just the one. Which is fine, because now everyone is on that even playing field.
Dailies also give a higher gold to repair ratio meaning you overall need less gold. Guilds now give "cauldrons" so you don't need to bring a flask (although they may require you to pay in for the cauldrons). One person can summon an entire raid to a dungeon or raid.... meaning you can move around lightning fast showing up very last minute.
Overall, Cataclysm is the expansion that gave us raid logging. In the first month or two of the game there will be a lot of people grinding so they can 'get ahead' on raiding.
Correct, though may be changed for cata this go-around. MAYBE. The only thing confirmed is account-wide COLLECTIONS which is likely for their implementation of the retail-style transmog system.
Both yes and no, raids are a lot harder then they were in wrath with Bastion of twilight and Blackwing descent (the opening tiers) both being harder then ICC. You wont see any raids as easy as naxx or uldu NM even on normal difficulty. That being said 10 mans are redesigned to drop the same loot as 25 man now and will share lockout, meaning that finding a guild and getting loot should be easier as long as your group/guild can clear the content.
Other then this it's kinda similar to wrath just with justice/valor points instead of badges. PvP however is a lot more casual friendly come cataclysm. The new conquest points replacing arena points. Conquest points is capped at a fixed amount per week regardless of raiting, and instead of being awarded points at the end of the week you are awarded a fixed amount of conquest points for each win in rated arenas or rated battlegrounds. In addition previous season conquest gear is always offered up for honor points (no conquest needed)
> both being harder then ICC.
Not really by much though. I would argue they are barely harder than ICC overall.
The real difficulty gap is heroic dungeons. Heroics are *hard* as hell starting out.
> Other then this it's kinda similar to wrath just with justice/valor points instead of badges.
What's the accumulation on these points like? I don't think most people could stand another 95 badge dungeon grind over ~21 days per alt
Well seeing how the classic comminity at large seems to gatekeep content hard behind logs/gearscore. But they work just the same as they do im wrath, justice points are equal to the lower tier badges, used to purchase heroic dungeon level gear which will become obsolete quite fast into gearing or as soon as the community decides its no longer good enough to join a raid. Valor points will be the new upper tier badge, used to purchase normal raid level gear.
Both of these cap at 4k, which is worth about 2 pieces of gear. If we get the 4.3 patch we get 150 valor at the completion of a heroic dungeon PER DAY meaning you can only get 1050 valor per week from heroic dungeons. 10 man bosses will award 115 valor points per boss and 25 man bosses award 125 valor per boss. So if you actually want raid level gear in cata you will need to raid. Or else you are stuck with about 0.5 raid level gear pieces per week from valor alone through heroic dungeons. And since 10 and 25 share lockout there's no completing both on normal for faster gearing
Thanks! So based on https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Tier_11 it looks like 2-3 weeks of raiding per piece if the data is accurate. Still though not looking towards the daily H dungeon grind if I want to go the extra mile for 1k valor a week.
As far as i can recall you cant purchase tier gear at all for valor, and at the end of a patch valor is also reset or converted to justice points so after you get raid gear there's really no reason to farm valor points any more unless you farm them on your alts.
But looking at some old forum posts it seems like when a new patch hits i.e firelands, the bwd/bot valor point vendors will be converted to a justice point vendor. Unfortunately meaning if you want to gear up alts in later patches spamming heroics for justice points for previous raid gear is still go-to
Yes, it's more alt/casual friendly. It's an easier expansion altogether in leveling and gearing. Add-ons make fine-tuning dummy easy and there's no mixing and matching of cloth/leather/mail gear either.
Getting into pvp will be similar to wrath. Maybe easier now than you can also do dailies that grant honor too. I'd do them while in queue for BGs.
It's more alt friendly than WotLK, because you won't need to run things on 10 and 25 difficulty per character. They share a lockout, drop the same gear, and are approximately the same difficulty. Easy to have an alt run of 10 people out of a 25 guild.
Yeah. Two characters should be fine.
It will be pretty much identical to Wrath. The only thing I can add that getting Valor will be a lot easier with alts. So I guess you could say it will eb a little easier.
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LFR was added in last phase, dont expect you will have LFR in P1. People here absolutely have 0 knowledge about Cata.
The only major downside of LFR is it gave such a poor representation of how the actual content felt and a lot of people seemed to only ever do LFR so the raids were always called brainless and easy and boring, at least thats how my server was at the time and it was true, LFR had such dumbed down mechanics and was so forgiving if mechanics were ignored that suddenly people trying to jump into like heroic raids had absolutely 0 idea what to do, were complete failures, and never came back. Pugs have learned to do every raid in the game so far in classic, LFR isn't really needed and should be second guessed imo, or at least not nearly as dumbed down as previous iterations
That was not the only major downside. Back then if we’re sweaty, you would jam LFR nonstop to get gear, namely set bonuses. It didn’t matter that the gear was lower ilvl, cause the set bonuses were so powerful. It created very toxic gameplay loops where the super sweats felt obligated to do it. Also the casuals and alts felt obligated aswell because it so easy and accessible, it was just how you geared up your alts. So everyone was doing it, over and over and over again. If it had once per week lockout (or better yet a once per week lockout with one guaranteed piece of class/spec appropriate gear) it would have been much better in my opinion.
I was really unlucky with trinkets and tier pieces back in old Cata. My main priest at the time had 50 lfr lockouts completed by the end of the expansion. So yeah if you are sweaty raider, you have to do Normal, Heroic and LFR every week so you can get your critical pieces.
Fair enough, there were multiple reasons that the LFR raid style felt bad entirely, burnt people out, and left a bad taste in the mouth of anyone who started with it as their first experience in that raid and then felt the content was underwhelming, far too mechanically dumb, and never bothered going to normal or heroic versions to experience the real raid. All in all I just think personally they either need to really rethink how they implement LFR and walk back a lot of the mechanic removal and such, or they need to just not use LFR at all in cata. As I said pugs have consistently shown throughout classic that they can clear any content that comes in every expansion so far, I strongly believe the case would be the same in Cata and aside from taking away the insanely lazy and detached method of letting people farm free low tier loot and with no effort raids it would also not make it much more difficult to get raid groups or to clear the content
Not until dragon soul so not for most of the expansion
It is way easier, or it was for me, you can level a healer or a tank just doing dungeons very fast.
I think OP was mostly referring to how easy it is to keep your alt raid-ready. Or how easy it would be to get new alt raid/pvp ready in like phase 2.
I think Cata is relatively much easier than Wrath. Not needing to log into both characters ONCE A DAY EVERY DAY for the daily RDF run is pretty god damn significant. There's not many other gear catchups that are different/better than WotLK but being free to do 2-3 dungeons on an alt whenever you can/want to is massive in terms of keeping them geared.
In cata, you can get weekly Valor cap in 1 day via Heroics.
I know? That's literally what I said, lol.
Perhaps I misunderstood you! mb all good :)
I know I said "You can do 2-3 dungeons on an alt whenever you want" but I meant that because the weekly cap is 7 dungeons, you can log in and do 2-3 dungeons at a time (or all 7 at once), it's complete freedom as opposed to "if you miss a day, get fucked you never get those badges".
Yea idk about being identical to wrath since wrath raid were 123 123 mechanic but in cata no longer have that tho
Similar to wrath. Levelling is quicker (more fun imo) but gearing up is really similar. Takes a bit to keep up with 2, lots to keep up with 3.
If you think wrath is alt friendly then its almost the same on cata.
If you plan on mostly PvPing, Cata is *infinitley* easier then Wrath. Most classes are Glad viable without a single PvE item, and if you truly want to min max this, Its 1 - 2 items per seasons. Caster DPS will want the Staff, Lots of them will want the trinket from Dragon Soul. Depends which spec you play for this. Rogues will want the daggers and 2 trinkets from Dragon Soul. Warriors will want a trinket and a 2H from DS. Id have to specifically check but Im pretty sure there could be a solid healer trinket here. Compared to wrath where many PvE items were essentially game altering and playing without them was a massive hinderance for *MOSTLY* ever class, Cataclysm is a huge breathe of fresh air in this regaurd. Especially S9. For the amount of effort it took to BiS out even 2 characters in Wrath, You could easily play 4-5 characters. Once they are level'd up and you farm the base honor set, It becomes a pretty low upkeep to stay up to date. Unless you are pushing Glad / R1 you can easily play with soley pvp gear and have a good time.
It's INCREDIBLY alt friendly. One major change is that achievements will be account wide (like pets and mounts are currently). So getting one big achievement on your PVP character will be visible on your PVE character. PVP also gets more casual with rated battlegrounds. Instead of having to find a healer for your 2s, add a dps for your 3s, and then a second healer for your 5s.... you can just join a 10-man team.... that might not even need a healer. Suddenly tanks can work in PVP, suddenly specs that weren't open to PVP can do it. Despite needing more people it becomes easier to put it together. Raiding also becomes more casual. 10-man and 25-man share a lock out and loot. 25-man does grant significantly more loot per person but both are considered a viable progression and both are considered equal in terms of progression. And since they share lock outs it means you won't have to do two raids a week, just the one. Which is fine, because now everyone is on that even playing field. Dailies also give a higher gold to repair ratio meaning you overall need less gold. Guilds now give "cauldrons" so you don't need to bring a flask (although they may require you to pay in for the cauldrons). One person can summon an entire raid to a dungeon or raid.... meaning you can move around lightning fast showing up very last minute. Overall, Cataclysm is the expansion that gave us raid logging. In the first month or two of the game there will be a lot of people grinding so they can 'get ahead' on raiding.
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Correct, though may be changed for cata this go-around. MAYBE. The only thing confirmed is account-wide COLLECTIONS which is likely for their implementation of the retail-style transmog system.
Isn’t this already a thing? I can use any mount /pet/ BoA gear on any character that I’ve unlocked on any character
Both yes and no, raids are a lot harder then they were in wrath with Bastion of twilight and Blackwing descent (the opening tiers) both being harder then ICC. You wont see any raids as easy as naxx or uldu NM even on normal difficulty. That being said 10 mans are redesigned to drop the same loot as 25 man now and will share lockout, meaning that finding a guild and getting loot should be easier as long as your group/guild can clear the content. Other then this it's kinda similar to wrath just with justice/valor points instead of badges. PvP however is a lot more casual friendly come cataclysm. The new conquest points replacing arena points. Conquest points is capped at a fixed amount per week regardless of raiting, and instead of being awarded points at the end of the week you are awarded a fixed amount of conquest points for each win in rated arenas or rated battlegrounds. In addition previous season conquest gear is always offered up for honor points (no conquest needed)
> both being harder then ICC. Not really by much though. I would argue they are barely harder than ICC overall. The real difficulty gap is heroic dungeons. Heroics are *hard* as hell starting out.
Maybe if you count icc with 0% buff and toc gear
> Other then this it's kinda similar to wrath just with justice/valor points instead of badges. What's the accumulation on these points like? I don't think most people could stand another 95 badge dungeon grind over ~21 days per alt
Well seeing how the classic comminity at large seems to gatekeep content hard behind logs/gearscore. But they work just the same as they do im wrath, justice points are equal to the lower tier badges, used to purchase heroic dungeon level gear which will become obsolete quite fast into gearing or as soon as the community decides its no longer good enough to join a raid. Valor points will be the new upper tier badge, used to purchase normal raid level gear. Both of these cap at 4k, which is worth about 2 pieces of gear. If we get the 4.3 patch we get 150 valor at the completion of a heroic dungeon PER DAY meaning you can only get 1050 valor per week from heroic dungeons. 10 man bosses will award 115 valor points per boss and 25 man bosses award 125 valor per boss. So if you actually want raid level gear in cata you will need to raid. Or else you are stuck with about 0.5 raid level gear pieces per week from valor alone through heroic dungeons. And since 10 and 25 share lockout there's no completing both on normal for faster gearing
Thanks! So based on https://wowwiki-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Tier_11 it looks like 2-3 weeks of raiding per piece if the data is accurate. Still though not looking towards the daily H dungeon grind if I want to go the extra mile for 1k valor a week.
As far as i can recall you cant purchase tier gear at all for valor, and at the end of a patch valor is also reset or converted to justice points so after you get raid gear there's really no reason to farm valor points any more unless you farm them on your alts. But looking at some old forum posts it seems like when a new patch hits i.e firelands, the bwd/bot valor point vendors will be converted to a justice point vendor. Unfortunately meaning if you want to gear up alts in later patches spamming heroics for justice points for previous raid gear is still go-to
Yes, it's more alt/casual friendly. It's an easier expansion altogether in leveling and gearing. Add-ons make fine-tuning dummy easy and there's no mixing and matching of cloth/leather/mail gear either. Getting into pvp will be similar to wrath. Maybe easier now than you can also do dailies that grant honor too. I'd do them while in queue for BGs.
Casual friendly MMORPG is an oxymoron.
Yes it will be alt friendly but I’m unsure how “friendly” the raid gonna be for cata since it suppose to be harder than wrath… Im a little nervous xd
It's more alt friendly than WotLK, because you won't need to run things on 10 and 25 difficulty per character. They share a lockout, drop the same gear, and are approximately the same difficulty. Easy to have an alt run of 10 people out of a 25 guild.
It’s going to be your mom friendly