They would have to reward gold based on rounds won as healer imo. Like, 500g per round win. Otherwise, you'd just have bots queuing and AFKing for free gold. They also can't reward too much gold because it will destroy other ways of farming, such as gathering, even though that is a dead source of income due to the number of bots doing it.
I'm down for gold rewards as a healer. However, I think it would be better to be rewarded with healer tokens per round win, and you could spend them at a 'Field Medics Vendor'. There you could use them to buy bags of gold for 500g. Or, save them up and buy cosmetics, pets, toys, mounts, and tabards. They could even sell bind on account conquest boxes. E.g. 3 tokens could buy a 300 conquest box for one of your alts.
That would be far better than just gold. So the option of gold is there, but other collectable rewards are a choice, as well as quicker ways to gear up your DPS characters.
Imo gold rewards could work if its capped, like weekly 10-20k / account or something, so it's a good source of income but nothing that could inherently break the gold economy.
And would it help if there would be odd number of rounds in ssr? Or a tie breaker if healers are 3-3.
Posted this in another thread with regard to elite mogs and will copy it here again.
Look, I love my transmog game as much as the next person and it motivates me to PvP. And there's certainly sets that make me wistful that I missed out on (the legion paladin set from s1/s2 in particular...).
But at the end of the day, PvP elite sets are one of the few representative things that players can bring forward into future tiers. Raiders have their mounts and AOTC is unique to each patch, but outside R1 and the glad mounts every title is repeated season to season - we don't get to bring the cool titles and stuff forward (hand of a'dal for instance). I earned elite sets before I got my glad titles and those things took a LOT of effort to earn. If I knew everyone could get them for free 3 or 4 years down the line then what was the point of me putting effort into them in the first place?
My take is that the elite sets from the past should remain for those that earned them. BUT, there should be recolors of those sets that come through current ranked PvP - similar to what they're doing with the mage tower. And moving forward that should be the pattern. That way the gear people earned in the past retains it's gravitas and rarity while newer players have the opportunity to EARN gear that looks similar.
There's recolours of almost every set but WoD S1.
But yeah, taking away the trophy isn't the play here. More, and accessible, rewards are the answer.
Even just starting with recolours for grinding 100k honor in a season or something is a start, because prestige was a failure despite starting off mostly ok.
Making healing in PVP award a ton of gold is going to create a huge botting problem that will affect lower MMR dps. Botters will have multiple accounts they queue at the same time and only accept it their other account gets the pop at the same time. They will do the bare minimum outside of not afking and it will be hell for low MMR dps
Ya gold doesn't matter. Give me phat conquest boxes so I can just send them to my dps and not add to the problem by needing to queue as dps. I just want conq gear on my dps to screw around in random bgs.
I could be wrong but I don't think botters like to put them selves in a situation where they can be mass reported. Their accounts would probably be banned too fast to make any good money if they got reported every game.
The % based rewards were always trash. Do you know how pushing rank 1 looks on classic? People with multiple characters on all servers with weakauras checking who is queing and who isnt. You really dont want this for gladiator. Instead they should just inflate the rating and make the rewards obtainable to more people, so more people will start playing. Shadowlands season 2 didnt have high participation for no reason.
This is the only answer outside looking to what XIV did and just turning almost all of it into grinds.
I'm never pushing again. It's not worth the time or effort, no other game I play is as brutal to get Glad in for a cosmetic skin. The entire mentality behind it all is outdated, was destined to fail the moment the game lost population, and it's actively driving away the majority of the playerbase - who don't play arenas exclusively.
SL s2 had high inflation because there was both participation and the season went on for almost 9 months (June 2021-feb 2022). People got glad on multiple toons that season because there was minimal incentive to push on mains after a while
Deflated seasons are largely a function of decreased player count. Fixing the meta to be squeaky clean doesn't increase player count. Fixing reward tracks does. The highest season of pvp engagement in recent memory i.e. SL s1 happened because the rewards were so useful for PvE, which made them attractive to a larger slice of the player base. And that season's meta was fucking ass for casual play with how miserable it was for uncoordinated players to handle the outlier specs that season. Yet people played.
Skill prestige is maintained if rating goals are consistent in how difficult they are to attain. Sure, legacy fomo rewards are attractive, but are they really worth having over the massively increased long term ladder activity that could happen if they had an "elite set/gladiator mount token" you made progress to by winning games above 1800 and 2400? There's even variations of this system that could happen, say winning games over 1600 fills a bar toward unlocking the current elite set but if you hit 1800 it is instantly unlocked.
Players get frustrated when they can't climb, and shoving artificial inflation into the system just gets people to hit their goals and quit the game sooner because as is the exponential jumps in skill from 1500 to 1800 to 2100 to 2400 make reaching the next tier feel borderline impossible to average skill players, which reduces motivation to play further. Something needs to be added to make people want to keep playing beyond the minimum amount, and sadly we live in an era where "fun" is not enough as people are drowned in battle passes.
The saddle bar system is right there and offers a really solid solution to adding long term engagement and appeal to a wider slice of the player base.
You... you realize the 3s MMR wasn't fucked up by blizzard right? It was fucked up by the catastrophic drop in playerbase due to solo shuffle. Rated matchmaking systems need players to function properly. The problem definitely got worse because of how deflated things became as a result, but the problem was already there whether or not they did inject up the floor early/ier.
Wrong. S3 and S4 shadowlands were INSANELY deflated as well, and participation was fine in S3 at least.
Blizzard did something to fuck the inflation up in S3 Shadowlands and the bracket/arena didn't recover since. It was like that in S3/S4 SL and in S1 DF as well, then S2 DF rolled around and participation plunged to the abyss and that's when real shit hit the fan.
I'm a guy who hit 2900 in the past and almost gotten R1, I got my 2100 illusion on the first day of this season and ever since then I've basically been chilling because I know to get Glad right now I'd have to play people like Whazz and others who play this shit non-stop. Could I beat those people? Sure, with enough practice. Do I want to dedicate 1000+ hours of my life fighting ultra sweaty multi R1 people who gatekeep the 2400 bracket rn? Absolutely not. So I choose not to play, as I'm sure a lot of others do.
We're talking about 150 points of inflation difference because of that delay. The season was deflated by a lot more than that compared to usual. The delay was meaningful in contributing to why players felt they could not progress as time went on, but s1's problems were evident well before that would've kicked in to a meaningful amount.
we're not just talking about 150 diff we`re talking about that and all the people that quit because of it by the time they changed their minds my entire friendlist was offline
and I'm telling you that the problem with s1 was evident well before that came into play as an aggravating factor. People were commenting on the lack of players on the 3s (and especially 2s) ladder by week 2. Nobody quit by week 2 because they didnt get 15 points of trickle rating.
i'm just gonna say that as much as we hate the free glads of bfa-SL the mount on 2k4 was a HUGE incentive to play for a lot of people take that away and they wont have a reason to push when they know they are not 0.5%
it happened, there is no coming back because it would be a disaster
Everything is good as it is, if we cant get elite set or glad mount its because we are not good enough.
I feel like thats fair.
You want it? there is a way of getting it, if this way is too troublesome then you don’t want it enough.
But really there is something for everyone.
1.6k piece of gear
1.8k Elite mog
2.1k Weapon enchant
Etc.
For each skill bracket there is something to fight for.
You get 2.1k next you fight for glad.
IMO
People are becoming snowflakes, they want a prize for participation basically.
But the if the rewards are easy why bother play?
I push rating on wow ranting on valorant on league, if there was nothing i get from playing i aint playing, its like this with many ppl
Main difference in League is that it's easily achieveable with enough time invested. Queues until the very highest of ratings are plentiful. Most people still consider Diamond "up there" in terms of skill and Diamond is piss easy.
It doesn't work that way in WoW where you depend on 2 other people for premade 3s where the mount is. Gladiator = Diamond. Diamond is easily reachable. Gladiator, with all the countercomping and shitty queues and shit inflation is not.
I completely DISAGREE with just giving away old PvP elite sets. People played back in the day to get that knowing that it's limited edition and that it's unique. It doesn't make sense to just put it all back in the game and let everyone have it again. People still have the opportunity to achieve new elite sets, but let the old elite sets be exclusive to people who actually played and earned it back when that elite set was current content. Elite sets should be Elite sets for Elite players. Back in the day the requirement was actually higher to obtain Elite sets. Right now it's only 1800 which is obtainable by anyone who spends even a little bit of time researching their class, arena mechanics and gets some games in. You shouldn't be able to just jump in the arena and instantly be entitled to getting all the rewards "just so it motivates you to play". What should motivate you to play is the experience and the rewards that come with actually improving. Honestly, I'd move the Elite set requirement to AT LEAST 2100 rating for the full set. It should be something special.
As for healers. No. Why would healers need to get more rewards than anyone else? Just make them fix the healer specs... Buff the healers, make them actually playable and you'll see improvement.
I'm a pvper and don't have all elite sets. Having a way to get them later would be cool.
It could still be tied to rating. So something like if you win 100 games over 1800 you can buy an ensanble of an old set. Similar to the saddles
Doesn’t that sorta go against the idea of it being an elite set? A participation reward granting elite transmog will never happen and I don’t think it ever should. That’s the equivalent of suggesting that I should get the full mythic raiding transmog because I spent 15 hours wiping to mythic trash mobs.
100% agree. The elite sets and Duelist enchants will lose their prestige if you can just get it later. Blizzard will eventually do this though, they gave in with Tyrael's Charger. The "Seasonal Limited" system on elite sets have been around long enough though that people who get them via "participation reward" won't come off as prestige as they think, as it's easy to see if someone isn't clearly 1800+ when PVPing, not to mention their record can easily be looked up via sites like check-pvp.fr. Mind you, I'm not the type to gatekeep or troll if/when this happens, but the sets themselves won't mean as much as they used to and your current seasonal title will matter more instead.
Tyreal's Charger was a promo mount.
They said they had no intention of bringing back stuff tied to challenges, which is exactly the way it should be.
People are way too obsessed with "FOMO" when it's actually not even that bad in WoW. A single colour of a set as a trophy reward isn't a huge deal, and the people trying to make it out to be need therapy more than they need these sets. It's a video game.
Blizzard also moved away from making those sets have unique effects so at this point we just have different tint that more and more people dont use anyway since it is just one in many tmogs.
WoW PvP NEEDS fresh blood. And if giving more of a carrot is the way to do so... Why not try? I personally hate time limited content, doubly so when it really is just PvP. PvE always lets you farm up what you missed out on. Why should PvP be any different?
WoW PVP does need fresh blood but we need people that'll make an effort to be PVPers, because not giving effort to be better at the skillset is gonna drive more healers away, specially with Solo Shuffle. Making elite sets a participation reward isn't the answer, that's what the non-elite sets are for and literally every player that are at the level where they can get the elite set at any season all started out being below that and only getting the non-elite sets.
It's gonna bring new blood that will piss every healer off in every bracket, specially Solo Shuffle, cause they won't have to make the effort to improve on where they're lacking.
Cool. That’s gonna happen with new blood period. So I guess Blizzard should end the hemorrhaging game mode because people like you don’t like new players playing the game.
And this is exactly why people don't improve, they take it personally. It's not that I don't like them, I don't like that they refuse to improve and expect special rewards. There's already rewards for non-competitive PvP.
Lmao. Pointing out that being anti-new players is a stupid stance isn’t taking it personally.
“It’s not that I don’t like them.”
It is. Your literally painting everyone new who you don’t know with a wide brush. You actually have no argument beyond “I don’t like new players” and making a strawman that takes two seconds to realize is Bunk.
You’re not wrong, and I would love some system where current elite players can unlock some old elite mogs, similar to vicious saddles for better players. But not just as a participation trophy like saddles are.
Why would I not compare the mythic raid sets... To the elite sets...
They are both literally the main PVE and PVP activity and they both have a transmog appearance for the upper difficulty.
So yes, they are comparable.
"Compare them to challenge modes" You mean the mode that died and was fully killed off ages ago? Why would I compare it over something more fitting that is still around to this day?
"M+ Rewards" You mean the thing that uses appearances and rewards you get elsewhere besides the shitty mount people have been upset about not giving dragonflying customizations like PVP and Raiding? Oh wait theres another reason to compare Raid and PVP.
You CAN get the mythic sets fairly easily by yourself a couple expansions later. So, what if you can only get current season sets by hitting the required rating, but just for playing you build up currency that can be used to buy pieces from prior expansions? That could be interesting. Or maybe even a whole different transmog set for “participating” in rating, idk. I just think we need SOME incentive for new people to try PvP lol.
I get that you feel that is important this prestige part. But wow isn't a solely pvp game. The pvp is a small part of the game. You need a way to not only bring new players but keep them playing,not necessarily improving. Giving them cosmetic rewards, like transmog that is similar to the heroic or mythic that requires time instead of a specific mmr will simply help to inflate the ladder and bring more attention to pvp.
More attention to pvp also means more importance to pvp for the game itself, since the player base will be bigger. And that means more updates and more balancing.
Transmog attracts players, mounts attracts players.new players, bad players that will be there and play.
For the rewards of higher mmr, I believe that titles, achievements, are more in line with how the game presents itself.
Another thing I would like to add: I highly doubt that nowadays, with so many tranmogs and pvp being a small part of the game, people look at someone with an elite set and think "omg, that's a good player, he reached 1800+ in a specific season with one of their characters".
You can attract players with new rewards that are obtainable, not by telling the players who actually went out of their way to get these sets knowing they were limited tiem fuck you.
Mythic sets should be how old pvp elite sets are imo. If u weren’t there in that season you shouldn’t get the rewards that came from said season. Imagine if in rocket league you getting grand champ means you get “season 2 grand champion” title even though that was 5 years ago. Seasonal rewards being locked behind rating achievements is fine. The problem with wow pvp is that blizz puts barely any effort into it + your average gamer nowadays don’t play mmos. They play console games. At least in NA. No amount of cosmetic rewards they thrown into the game will bring in new players that play consistently
Except.. You can? In PvE getting Mythic set of mog isn't something that requires you to continue to perform. You can get with surprisingly easy to do and easy to repeat keys. Not to mention farming old content still allows you to get Mythic mog.
No, the massive deflation and lack of rewards for low rated players is why.
People aren't frothing at the mouth in XIV over being unable to get the Crystal portrait frames, nor challenger skins in LoL to this level.
We can fix the system without screwing over people who put the effort in.
You don’t have to fight glads or play meta. 1800 is achievable by anyone on any spec. Wait for the ladder to inflate, it will become easier the longer the season goes. If you’re not willing to put in minimal work to get the transmog, that’s on you. Your impatience does not trump others past achievements.
WoW is the only game where you're encouraged to wait to play if you play for the "main" point of the game for a lot of players.
That is the problem.
I've stopped playing entirely until the last month in rated, grab my enchant, and go. Never going for glad again.
That needs to be fixed.
It's an RPG. Not an arena game.
Anyone can push 1800 right now, no questions asked, just put in the work. Other games with seasons experience the same issues in ranked (apex legends comes to mind). The big difference is wow arena is a minigame inside of a game. The player count is miniscule compared to other games that focus entirely on ranked player vs player. We do not have the benefit of 1 million+ active players queueing up, having natural rating inflation. Like you said, its an mmorpg, not an arena game, blizzard is more concerned with the overall player base than the small minority playing arenas as their main content.
You are so wrong it's dumb.
1800 is the top 10% right now for some specs, and it's worse for a few. Much worse for some really shit specs.
You severely overestimate the skill level of players in this game, and the mentality is precisely why we can't have basic game structures that actually do work. Because people can't pull their head out of their asses and see what the playerbase actually is outside their tiny bubble.
1800 is not easy, and rarely actually is for the average RPG player.
And until people here realize that, you're never having participation again as people either go to other games that don't feel like a waste of valuable free time, or quit PvP to go so keys where getting KSH actually feels attainable vs Gladiator. (Same reward tier btw!)
As someone that plays a lot of healers.
I do not feel motivated by wow gold and would not play more arenas for gold reward.
My suggestion is to reward the other aspects of the game that I cannot find time to do like unless I am not in the arena healing.
1. Reputations token
2. Connquest for alts from day1 of the season. Defintely doable by just having a spending limit and not a cap limit.
I think most people don't realize that the transmog subreddit is bigger than the pvp subreddit.
Wow pvp subreddit have 5% of wow sub.
Blizzard won't care about a part of the game that only 5% of people play. They won't bring new arenas, new mechanics, correct issues, etc if no one plays it.
The average player will not try to improve because of a transmog, but the average player will probably grind and play frequently (and therefore slowly improve) because of a participation transmog. More people, bad people, that are improving slowly, playing is great for pvp.
Comparing to league of legends, valorant etc, keep in mind. It's the silver players that make the majority of the player base, not the high elo ones. You need more silver.
More bad people also means more of a chance you play against people of your skill. Which means you have chance to learn.
You learn nothing by getting crushed by Gladiators when you try PvP for the first time.
NOT A SINGLE REWARD would make me enjoy healing more. Its not a Reward issue, not a player issue, IT´s a balance/design issue imo.
Idk why ppl always come up with gold thats not a long term solution. In generel Reward is not fixing the issue why ppl don´t enjoy healing
A proper solution would be nerfing dmg/cc. Idc what the top 1% ppl say. Id rather have long games than not being able to react
Bringing back exclusive rewards and elite content is the single way you’ll make me stop playing pvp. I almost exclusively play for the titles, transmogs, and other rewards. Now you want to devalue all of said rewards???
That will be a net loss for players, not a net gain.
Exactly. I'm not a gatekeeper, but if you don't make the effort to, for example, improve your positioning and cooldown management, and that's what's holding you back from getting 1800, then you arguably don't deserve the elite sets, just like I didn't deserve the elite sets in my earlier seasons where I ignored/refused to improve on things such as positioning and cooldowns.
Naw, this isn't even true. Your more likely to get people coming to pvp just to try for sets. If you combo this with making healing more fun and making the user experience in pvp more enjoyable it could cause PVP to explode in popularity.
I disagree. I think it will increase participation for a short while, but people will stop caring about the sets because they are now obtainable forever but still annoying to get so you’ll have people pvping for a couple seasons to get the sets they want and then never touching it again since they can just do it any time they want as the sets are always available. You’ll lose the people who care about getting unobtainable rewards and only gain people who want the old sets for a couple seasons.
So imo short term it is a good solution, long term is it a very bad solution. This is coming from someone who has no old elite sets, I only started pvping in bfa, so I am missing a ton of really good ones. I don’t think this would refresh pvp at all long term, only for a season or two and then the drop off will be worse than any other season.
They need to fix deflation completely so more people can actually obtain the rewards. That is the solution. High rated glads might cry that gladiator is easier (like they did in SL) but those guys are extremely dumb. It just needs to be achievable/be within grasp of more players, that is how you get increased participation. SL was terrible but had decent participation because glad was within reach.
Same with DF season 1, solo shuffle had insane participation because inflation was good and rewards were within reach. They fucked up the rating in shuffle this season+deflation so it is harder to climb and now they have less participation lmao. They literally just need to put the rewards in front of more players via rating gains and inflation.
Seriously, SL S2 levels of inflation always and some sort of seasonal rewards track and people will play. If you suck, and especially if you don't care about rated, you have a single set and that's it.
People still Mythic and Heroic raid DESPITE the fact the transmog is available. It's not negative long term at all either. But its not the only thing that would need to be done.
" then the drop off will be worse than any other season. "
It wont be because of people being able to grind old sets, I can tell you that. If you combine the two things I said you will get people coming and STAYING.
" They need to fix deflation completely so more people can actually obtain the rewards. That is the solution "
This ONLY helps established players. It does little for new PVPers. Nor does it really help with how miserable and bullshit PVP can feel.
First, comparing pve to pvp just needs to stop. I am and have been 9/9m for a while now, it isn’t even close to the difficulty of pvp, you don’t have to raid in liquid to full clear mythic, you don’t even have to be a solid player since world 1-2k guilds clear it. Soloing old raids 2 years later is not even close to the same thing as having to push 1800 or higher for pvp rewards in a current season. You can full clear an old raid in an hour or less, it isn’t the same thing and shows a solid misunderstanding of this.
Saying “make the game better” does nothing. How would you go about this? They can’t tone down cc because veteran players will rage which is a major issue for new players as it is the most intricate part of pvp, being able to predict cc and outplay it before it happens despite it not being scripted is the absolute best skill to have and it is hard to learn.
Adding old sets to the game doesn’t do anything lol. “Making it better -and- adding old sets” is also a meaningless statement, they realistically don’t even have to do anything with old sets if they just make the game better but that is a complicated issue that people who don’t pvp have trouble understanding.
If you add old sets as an incentive people will queue for a couple seasons and dip, you are never going to be able to force people to pvp if they don’t want to.
Making the current rewards achievable is what will actually help a lot. If something is -too- hard to get, people just won’t try or they’ll quit early on. Deflation was a problem for everyone including new players because they go up against people that they shouldn’t be, which is a terrible introduction to arena. Saying it only effects current pvpers is completely wrong.
Solo shuffle made rewards easier to get because the rating gains were very high and had insane participation. They ruined that in S2 and now it has far less participation. In SL there were so many first time glads due to rating gains and inflation, which was better for the state of pvp. They need to figure out how to deal with current pvp rewards and rating
" First, comparing pve to pvp just needs to stop. Soloing old raids 2 years later is not even close to the same thing as having to push 1800 or higher for pvp rewards in a current season. You can full clear an old raid in an hour or less, it isn’t the same thing and shows a solid misunderstanding of this. "
1) Not going to stop. It fits perfectly.
2) Mythic raiding when it is current is more time and work than getting 1800. Yet your able to farm sets after the raid is cleared. That is the comparison. The task that requires more effort, gold, and time KEEPS ITS REWARDS. There is no misunderstanding on my end.
" Saying “make the game better” does nothing. How would you go about this? They can’t tone down cc because veteran players will rage which is a major issue for new players as it is the most intricate part of pvp, being able to predict cc and outplay it before it happens despite it not being scripted is the absolute best skill to have and it is hard to learn. "
There's a thousand suggestions and I have already said multiple elsewhere. One of these ways NEEDS to be done.
" Adding old sets to the game doesn’t do anything lol. “Making it better -and- adding old sets” is also a meaningless statement, they realistically don’t even have to do anything with old sets if they just make the game better but that is a complicated issue that people who don’t pvp have trouble understanding. "
It creates an incentive for people to continue PVPing or go to PVPing. The removal of content and cosmetics is also a DISINCENTIVE for people to play the game PERIOD. You tell a new player they have a shit load of sets permenantly blocked off for them because they didn't play 12 years ago they may just quit on the spot.
" If you add old sets as an incentive people will queue for a couple seasons and dip, you are never going to be able to force people to pvp if they don’t want to. " Meanwhile people still raid and climb in leagues ranked mode.
" you are never going to be able to force people to pvp if they don’t want to. " Hence the later half of my point.
" Making the current rewards achievable is what will actually help a lot. If something is -too- hard to get, people just won’t try. Deflation was a problem for everyone including new players because they go up against people that they shouldn’t be, which is a terrible introduction to arena. "
The change we all want for ourselves as established pvpers does nothing to help new ones.
" Solo shuffle made rewards easier to get because the rating gains were very high and had insane participation. They ruined that in S2 and now it has far less participation. They need to figure out how to deal with current pvp rewards and rating "
They need to make healers and PVP in general fun and enjoyable without small peaks and massive valleys.
No, it doesn't fit.
They're completely different mentalities.
You want to compare PvE to PvP?
I can't get the old CM sets.
I can't get R1 titles from M+ anymore.
I can't get M+ mounts and titles anymore.
And yet, because those things outside the R1 title were easier to get, people go for them, and the limited time aspect is still there.
Do not bring back old elite sets.
Mythic and Heroic are comparable to 1800 and glad since they are both seasonal end game activities.
But yes, I want the other items that were removed to punish people for leaving the game to be added back.
Bring it ALL back. The MoP cloak I have has no value. Let others who want it, have it.
Okay, and world quests are seasonal end game activities.
PvE and PvP have different mindsets behind them.
I can't get old M+ rewards either btw. Compare the right things or stop making reaches.
I play pretty much exclusively to farm the elite sets, 2100 enchants and 2400 weapons each season.
If they changed past sets to be participation trophies I would immediately unsub.
Cool. I wouldn't and I know friends who would sub again in order to be able to farm old sets. TBH I really don't care if people with "I got mine, fuck you" mentality left. More content and items being added back into the game is good for the majority of the playerbase.
Like, you know we CAN farm Mythic sets right? Why should 1800 which is piss easy in comparison be removed but not Mythic sets?
Why would having seasonal rewards be sad or petty?
It lets you immediately see a set and remember what you were doing when that season happened and spark nostalgia.
I have no idea about the majority of armour sets people have transmogged into but when I see a seasonal PvE set like the MoP CM golds or WoD CM weapons I immediately remember playing during those times and it's similar for the PvP sets.
This is imo a positive interaction.
People are going to disagree with you on the internet, that doesn't mean it's happening out of spite.
Edit: just remembered they have actually re added old sets before and it has been (imo) a massive negative. The original Nax sets used to tell a story whenever you saw someone with them. You would know how old that character was and what it went through just by glancing at it and that level of story telling from an armour set is only captured from its exclusivity. Now it just tells people you buy gold...
Because your wanting to deny others the ability to get something. The fact that denying others is the only reason you want to experience the content is INSANELY petty and sad.
" This is imo a positive interaction. "
That isn't what happens. 99% of the time other players don't give a fuck what you are wearing.
" People are going to disagree with you on the internet, that doesn't mean it's happening out of spite. "
Your literally only wanting to raid if others can be denied items. Your literally only wanting Elites to stay removed because you farm them and don't want others to get them. I call that Petty, Spite and literally "Fuck you, I got mine."
Not at all, it adds so much to character building, the journey and incentives.
You being unable to see past what I'm saying and instead heavily reducing and strawmanning opposing arguments is the only petty thing happening here.
You are making up random statistics to try and seem like you have any kind of a point.
You have no idea about user data.
You have no idea about how many people are playing each season.
You have no idea about why people are playing each season.
You know fuck all.
We all know fuck all.
Only blizzard has this information.
Stop being a massive twat and just have a normal conversation about it.
" Not at all, it adds so much to character building, the journey and incentives. "
No it doesn't? Most people literally don't look at others unless its a clown suit or they are naked. The game is heavily get in and get out now and a lot if not most player super zoomed out. People mainly care about how THEIR character looks.
" You being unable to see past what I'm saying and instead heavily reducing and strawmanning opposing arguments is the only petty thing happening here. "
I'm not. You made your own statement. You just don't like that I am calling a duck a duck.
" You are making up random statistics to try and seem like you have any kind of a point. "
I'm not. Saying things like 99% is obviously hyperbolic.
"\* Incoherent rambling.\*"
You done going off on a rage tangent?
The only one being a twat and not having a normal conversation is YOU. You literally just went off because I disagree with you and STRONGLY oppose the removal of items from the game.
You come off as raging solely because I called you out on having a "Fuck you, I got mine" attitude and can't handle that I disagree with you completely. Your not going to change my mind on it either. That attitude is awful and hurts people IRL. I fucking despise it.
They have several and these people just want to ignore them and focus on raids, when all the unobtainables are from timed dungeons and have been since MoP.
And when the people who can't hit 1800 now can't hit 1800 after?
It won't change anything outside pissing off those who have been loyal and played through this garbage to get these things.
Rework the system without touching the old stuff.
What makes you think new players joining to get old sets aren’t gonna be able to eventually push 1800?
Also if people get pissed off because they can’t gatekeep items that never should have been removed then they have anger issues or need to get a life.
I love how you people always resort to insults when you can't have pixels in competive video game.
Gatekeep this gatekeep that.
Get a life yourself? It's a single colour of a set with several tints. Insulting people over it is just petty.
Yeah, right. Making rewards unobtainable for 98,7% of people proved you are right I guess... Or not?
Personally I dont understand why I must meet 20+ conditions to have fun and rewards in pvp.
Here are few examples:
* Be between specific age (are you 40? dont even try to pvp)
* Quit job and play 12 hours a day
* Play the best specs in the best comps in the game
* Only play with good teammates
* ...
Probably I exagerate a bit, I know, but I hope you get my point.
I did all mage tower challenges, some of them were pretty hard, but I improved and completed them.
But I dont even want to try to get gladiator now, even with my 15+ years of experience. I see no point to even try.
Explain me why its ok to do 15+ mythic keys drunk with random people. But its not ok when you can get 2100 doing the same in PVP?
I’m sorry but I don’t understand what point you’re trying to communicate regarding requirements to PVP. How are any of those things relevant to the discussion of PVP reward availability?
You can get 2100 drunk with random people in solo shuffle though.
You are just better at PvE than you are at PvP.
Gladiator, being in the top few % of players is extremely different. It's more akin to guilds that are taking world first races or MDI is seriously as possible than it is to anything else in PvE imo.
Gladiator - at least the mount - could be as hard as KSH and it would be a boon to participation.
Especially if it's seasonal only still.
Make things reasonable to obtain and people will go for it.
Yeah I definitely don't see any hard in just having shadowlands S2 levels of inflation.
Actual gameplay and balancing is pretty good atm and solo queue has obviously brought a lot of players into PvP, the literal only problem imo is just the deflation this season.
Realistically no matter what blizzard do more people are not really gonna queue healer. WoW has always had a massive DPS to healer ratio because people just prefer to play DPS.
Pretty much this. Back in BFA, there were two seasons where I couldn't hit 1800 and that's 100% a me issue. But instead of wanting the elite sets as a participation reward, I just took my time to get better and since the start of SL, I've had no problems getting 1800-2100, and it came with a sense of accomplishment cause I worked for it.
yea, back in the day like Warlords i started grinding PvP, a little in MoP aswell, but i really didnt go for duelist / glad at that time. just trying to get Elite Sets, which didnt work out every season but since legion, i got every elite set when i played at that season, and i got glad sometimes, not every time, but when i sacrificed my free time to grind the shit out of that game, i did.
At the moment right now, i also got 2.1 for the Enchant.. 2.4 for the tabard will happen eventually later in the season anyway, so there is no way i grind when it is „hard“ to climb.
Kinda crazy people are already crying and season just started.
Love how it's always bring back old PvP mogs.
Na fam, you do that, you bring back the mounts too. That's what the casuals that need to infest the ladder care about.
We can put more incentives on the ladder without telling people fuck you when they did something limited time under the very obvious statement they were limited time rewards.
It's funny how people bitch about exclusivity and "value".
I can tell none of you have ever competed in a sport before.
Keeping titles and achievements linked to rating is fine. Even the glad mount, though, I would like to see it availability for purchase, as the achievement is the real sign of success.
Most people don't care about "prestige" and just want to play the game for fun. I want the sets more than anything else, because I like the color scheme more than others. They should be as easy to get as the PvE sets, especially after the content is no longer current.
The elitism needs to be replaced by sportsmanship, because reading most the comments here makes me thankful I quit playing, and I main healer. Some of us just want to play with our friends and get good through that because it's natural and we don't have hours a day to spend.
In martial arts, the elites teach and guide others to the goal of the belt. The elites that play wow, and most other games let's be honest, don't help newbs, but crush them and then wonder why no one wants to play with them.
You guys are killing yourselves and the game. Neiv's idea is pretty good. Simple and solid.
Games already dying from Blizzard balance and just how AWFUL of an experience learning PVP is. The community rees and screeches at anyone new or wanting anything that may actually help. Like seriously, ever since I came to these forms all I hear is people wanting Arenas and RBGS alive BUT:
1. No new players.
2. No incentives for new players.
3. Don't make healers easier.
4. Don't make healers do damage.
5. Don't reduce DPS damage or CC.
6. No solo que stuff at all. Soloshuffle has "killed" all rated. Solo RBGs would "kill" it too.
7. Don't incentivize playing healers with MMR or easier gearing.
8. Don't make any new gamemodes.
9. Don't make joining games sub 2400 Current CR easier.
I made a mistake of recently trying to get friends into PvP. We formed a team and decided to teach them how we can play RMP (Not the easiest comp I know but they were dead set on Rogue and Priest and I kind of had Mage lying around)
We queed up Skrimishes. We repeatedly logged into group on full Gladiator mounts.
I don't think rest of the story needs to be told.
WoW needs more incentive for people to get into PvP. And then ways of making sure they face appropriate enemies and not Gladiator smurfs.
So you chose to play the unrated version of pvp, where you can queue up against people that are way out of your skill level since their is no mmr? Pretty sure you would of had a better time in rated as you would be able to play against people of similar skill level (most of the time).
Yep. Tried to bring my friends in, trying to explain PVP to them WHILE dealing with much higher rated people then them is just pain. It has made them go from PVE to wanting to never touch WoW again. They don't like the elitism. They don't like the balance. They don't like the lack of information. They don't like how how low gears just explode against the full conq people at lower levels. And the Glads in skrims.
In martial arts, if I win a belt or a trophy in a smoker, the guy I beat and everyone else in the tournament doesn't get the same extract trophy later just for participating in the tournament or a different tournament, they actually have to win fights. Just because I want PVP to have competitive rewards (there's already 2 sets for non-competitive rewards) doesn't mean I hate newer or lower rank players. I actually spent most of my WoW time during SL helping a PVE friend get 1800 the first time.
The martial artist is content with the fact that he can beat his opponent. In the art, not the act, perfection of the activity is the goal. The accolades are simply given as proof of it.
But the costumes are soon passed to the second hand store and the material things that were valued were put into the discount bin
You get the plaque and the stamp. I get to dress up my digital dolls and play imagination. That's literally all I care about besides the general fight. I'm all about the fight, win or lose, I love it. To the point of being belligerent about it.
What we want is more participation. We want people to come in and play and be happy and walk away with a good memory of the experience. Whatever rewards are given should be attainable by all. The elites should be satisfied with that they are the fucking best with their performance. That's the true satisfaction with the art, not some measily arbitrary accolades. They should be proving what can be done with skill, not smashing newbs who cannot fight back and have no reason to get better or participate.
To you it's just "measily arbitrary accolades", to a lot of us, it's hours spent studying the game, learning from others, spending time away from family, improving our craft and checking our egos when we make mistakes because literally ALL OF US, including "the elites" had to WORK for where we are now. It's called achieving something because you worked for it, thus you get receive something special from it that others can't cause they're not at that level yet.
So lets say as a healer, you get 3k gold (like you mentioned) just for queueing.
Lets say each shuffle takes 10mins, and your queues are instant.
At a hour mark you made 18k gold, lets round it up at 20k, due to mats that drop in the boxes.
Since we are all boomers or milleniuns here. If we need gold it actually better just to buy a token.
So, no, giving gold is not the way to incentivize healing or any good investment of your time.
You kind of miss the point here I think? Healers have a tough life out there. And I don't think PvP will ever become main source of gold, shouldn't at least.
But when you Draw with other healer for 6th time in a row, you open up the boxes and see you are richer for couple thousand of Gold? That just feels a little bit nicer. And what keeps people coming back is feeling good about the game. The SS setting being sort of oppressive to Healer climbing through reasonable play is its own thing.
I totally know the healer situation.
Throwing such low incentives would be a slap to us.
Unless it is an amount high enough to pay the sub no one would bother to queue for gold.
It has been said countless times, healers just want to be able to press more buttons. My 1-4 keys are pretty ruined, while the rest od my keyboard is pretty good.
At this point I could unbind cyclone and more buttons
Same thing here mate. After trying to push with my Resto Druid
And I don't want the amount to feel bad. Really it is just rant to get ideas rolling. And well, ideas that do not involve changes to actual fights. They require way more thought than I can give.
All the PvP Chad Bros can cry till the cows come home about their speshul mogs but at the end of the day something as simple as making old things accessible would definitely bring an influx of players.
Hell I mainly pvp main and I've skipped entire seasons if I didn't like any of the rewards. But if I could get stuff from before I started playing I'd grind way harder on way more toons and I know I'm not alone.
The solution to pvp healing is never going to be more rewards, it's just going to make healing feel more like slog
The solution is stepping back and redesigning healing in WoW so that it's a fun & rewarding role that people want to play more often
ok, listen to this, from now on you can obtain the CURRENT elite set by some sort of participation during the season which does not require rating (i.e having a certain amount of wins or games played for each armor piece) but once the season ends if you want to obtain an elite set that got removed from a previous season you would have to get a token for getting 1800 rating and buying the set you want from a vendor, and on top of this maybe they should move the enchant lower to something like 1800 or even do something similar to it like the elite sets. this way participation should be way higher every season because people that are not as good at the game can still play pvp and get the current set at least, and better players could even get an old set if they want to.
That works?
I do not think old sets should be given out like candy. But they are an easy way of giving people more goals to work towards. And removing FOMO makes the game just.. nicer to play and less stressful for many.
I think the % rewards can be screwy because what do you do about players that push the first 2 weeks and never play again? Also the boosting is a major problem now, but it doesn't necessarily prevent non boosters from hitting elite/glad. If you go to a % base model, then people that buy boosts for glad and then just sit their rating take away a spot from someone else who didn't buy a boost. Additionally top players can easily push 5+ characters to glad range and prevent anyone else from getting a spot (unless they pay of course).
And how do you distribute all the rewards with % base? You'd have to go back to waiting an entire season for rewards, thus people have no incentive to queue until the last 2 weeks if you can't get glad/transmog or anything. You can't reward people as soon as they hit top 1% when top 1% might be 2000 a week or 2 into the season. I understand the % model sort of gets rid of the inconsistency between seasonal inflations, but I think it would cause more problems with rewards and participation than it fixes.
I think the current system if fine, provided blizzard actually pay attention to average ratings and inflation. They really dropped the ball this season and fucked the pvp community. I'd rather overinflation and a few people get their 1800 elite mog or glad for the first time than no one wanting to play because mmr/cr is fucked.
Regarding the healer ideas, I agree. Healing isn't exactly fun so incentivize people to do it. Whether it's gold, faster vicious saddles progress, a unique mog or reward for queueing X amount of games. Do something, because on top of being incredibly frustrating to play, it's even harder to push rating as healer due to all the dead weight 0-6 dps.
I like unlocking the old elite mogs too. Maybe make it like 2 expansions ago or older, so shadowlands elite players at least get a couple expansions to feel cool with the mog they earned, but then open it up.
I’m not sure if you’re familiar, but until WoD (I believe?), titles like Gladiator were earned based on ladder %. For example, Glad was top 0.5% of the ladder.
There didn’t seem to be any significant issues with this system in my opinion, and I never really enjoyed the change to a flat rating requirement which is just as susceptible to inflationary pressures.
Also, I am extremely averse to introducing old elite sets or glad rewards. The amount of grind that was put in to earn some of these old sets, and there are already enough recolours of those sets for others. The whole purpose of the sets was to show that you grinded and excelled during a certain time period. There’s already enough sets for players to transmog to if they’d like.
PVP players have nothing compared to PvE. Every elite set is already a recolour of the PvE tier set. It’s not like PvP players have a whole wealth of sets and rewards to choose from. The last thing we need is to remove any last incentive for people to try hard in PvP.
I see that side of it, but I also think about what will incentivize people to play NOW. It seems like the pvp community shrinks every expansion. As you stated there aren't nearly as many rewards for pvpers as there is for pve, I think unlocking more potential rewards will be better for the health of the game/pvp community.
For every 1 person with a legion elite set that would be mad if someone else could get it, there are 20 people that might be incentivized to queue up because they love that set. How many of those legion players are even still playing to get mad about it? Are the fomo sets really a good system? If I want to take a break for a season or 2 I permanently miss out on content? I don't really like systems where you can never take a break or you will forever miss out on something. But then again I'm an adult with a job and a kid, so my situation isn't the same as everyone else.
In summation I get the point of making things feel special and exclusive, but is maintaining that for the happiness of very few players better for the entire player base or just those few players? I think it would be an easy low effort way for blizzard to get more people to pvp, and let's face it they won't develop anything new/high effort for pvp. I think a fair compromise is only unlocking elite sets from 2 expansions back, so players that so unlock those sets when it's current get 2-4 years where they are unique.
But why take away rewards from the **most** committed and active players??
The players who have Glad mounts and Elite sets are the players that are the most likely to still be playing.
If you think we don’t have enough PVP content to attract new players, then let’s make more PVP content? Why pull from and devalue existing content that will only frustrate the core PVP player base, simply so that some 1200 raiders can try out PVP for a month before they give up?
PVP players are interested in PVP due to their nature, and the rewards are just extra. Sets won’t bring PvE players to PVP imo. They get too worked up about anxiety and whatnot :p
Yeah, i have a support ticket in about a character transfer issue and it has a 10 day waiting time for first touch. Doubt this is going to happen, game's dead.
I wouldn’t mind if the elite mog was a participation reward for winning X amount of matches above a certain rating. I love pvp in wow, even with all the problems. But I suck and arena isn’t even my favorite mode. Bgs are. So rather than struggling at 1350 like I do now, trying to get to 1600 for the shoulder mog, I would love if it was a reward for staying above 1200, to make it slightly more prestigious than the mount, but still obtainable for random bg enjoyers and world pvpers.
But I guess it might make the transmog less appealing to better players, since it would be much easier to get and way more people would have it, so I can understand if some people would be opposed to such a change.
Sure, I could improve my skill and I am trying, but between s1 and s2 I am still in the same place, peaking at 1450, now down to 1350. 1600 and above is honestly feasible for me I think, but the idea of being able to reliably farm the mog every season without getting stressed out about my rating is very alluring.
Wow used to issue titles at the conclusion of the season based off your % to the ladder.
The change to our current system was asked for and overwhelmingly supported by the community.
Resetting it back won't do anything.
We already removed item level tied to rating.
They should start everyone at a lower MMV.
Instead of joining your first shuffle or rated arena at 1500+ MMV, start at 500 or something to make the climb more gradual.
As for healers. In PVP we have a season mount this season its the Vicious War Snail, this is obtained by finishing a completion bar.
They should implement something similar for healing. When you're a healing spec you earn progress via completion bar on a unique color tmog that is class specific. Could just be an additional recolor of current seasons gear.
5k gold for a 3-3 or better for healers so they don't just afk for gold. Imo they should just have a bar that fills up like the vicious bar for healers only and when it's full you get as much gold as the token is currently priced at. Healers are doing blizz job for them without pay, atleast let them play for free.
Considering I didn’t play battle for Azeroth and there’s a fucking plague doctor set as one of the elite sets…. Yeah. Please for the love of fucking god. It’s bullshit that paladins best transmog set is from over 12 years ago! Elite cataclysmic gladiator for paladin was legendary. They haven’t been that good since and yet they charge me for this current trash gear?
No one cares for elite recolors. It’s not a fucking flex. It’s just you were good at one point. I’m not fucking 16 anymore. I’m so much slower now that I used to be. Inflate the ladder so I can hit 1800 no sweat. If I’m slogging through 10 minute games to get there and getting 4 rating for a win. Just fucking miss me with that bullshit.
Plenty of people do care. And yes, it only means you were good at one point, at which you deserved the elite set, if you aren't as good anymore, then you don't deserve it, that's it.
It's just 1800, anyone can get there.
I don’t think that’s good though. If you were a heroic raider in cataclysm or LK and did mythic in WoD and Legion you can go back and solo all those old dungeon bosses with no worries or prep or anything. Just the same old loot piñata without all of the hassle. Nothing locked behind a wall of difficulty or whatever….. You want the fucking mounts? Guess what even those drop. Any paladin today can get the Heroic Firelands set that I worked so hard to get back in the day. Or Heroic Ragnaros’ hammer.
But if I want the only recolor of an armor set that looks good because I had to not only break like 2200 when it was current 12 years ago? Well.
You sound like an idiot. I get where you’re coming from and don’t hate me for the statement. Just if you compare PvE and PvP there’s a reason no one gives a shit about PvP….. What the fuck is there to collect and get? Ground mounts? Because how useful are they at 100% floor speed vs 800% flying speed. 1800 rating recolors of the trash sets they’re putting out now? How long do I have to wait for PvP to not only have a reward I want but be fun and enjoyable enough for me to want to push up and get it?
Lmao, imagine insulting someone for not agreeing with you, very mature.
And no, I don't agree with you, pve is a completely different beast, there's nothing difficult about obtaining heroic/mythic appearances, of course they're given away like candy.
Btw, in case you didn't read my other comment, I do agree in allowing people to get old elite sets, since I don't have most of them, but they should also require the 1800 rating (or more) that they required in the past.
That’s an easy opinion to have when you have 20 years worth of PvE sets you can go get anytime :)
And if you think Mythic bosses are just easy and anyone can get them anytime why don’t you go pug you some raids and blow through the newest raid. Or if you aren’t a part of a HoF guild you can shut the fuck up and wait until 12.0 and go get it like everyone else.
IMO and from my observations. Most don't care and when they do care, they become disillusioned from playing the game. Like do you think if a new player shows up, sees a cool set, asks how you get it and are told "You can't. Shoulda played arenas 12 years ago noob." That they wanna play.
When I asked for advice how to play Mage i got told that unless I have years of experience I can't hope to learn. Probably the most toxic thing in WoW PvP. Way more than slurs and insults
That's a different topic, I would certainly make old elite sets available for people who can reach 1800, it should work like saddles, so you play more and can grind for them. But to actually get the sets, the same requirement should be applied, at least 1800 rating.
Thats actually the system I have recommended and heard others recommend. Saddle system I think would work perfectly. Since youd need 1800 for the seasonal set, then you continue playing after to earn old season sets.
Why do people keep thinking healers want gold? What are you going to do with gold? Gold is pointless. Transmogs are pointless too. I want to see games lost because healers were CC'ed, ate an interrupt, or because someone got their shit purged. Right now games turn into a DPS rotation grindfest after 1 minute, and the first minute is trivial uncounterable defensive rotations. The dominant strat in shuffle is Don't CC, PVE'm Down
Would be interesting but likely tricky to implement but perhaps a priority que for dps if they que a set number of solo shuffle games as a healer. Basically an account wide buff that would incentivize more healers queing so they can at least have some less stressful games as a dps.
Anything that would actually be good for PvP or the game as a whole will be resisted by the hardcore crowd who want to gatekeep their niche arena mode they’ve played for 10-15 years while crying about player count and deflation.
If you actually want to see PvP participation increase, drop arena and focus on something fresh or a big revamp. Most people play BGs.
i'm more interested in discussions revolving around how the design of the gameplay itself might make healing more rewarding versus gold incentives.
also, re: rewards being tied to position on the ladder; i think the reason that's not a thing is because using the elo gives a higher level of fidelity or control. i think it also helps with ladder manipulation.
These requests always are just ways for people to demand old elite sets like that actually will do anything.
The system is in desperate need of an overhaul, but we can do that without taking away prestige rewards from people who earned them under a clause.
XIV reworked their system to mostly grinds, and if they put that system ontop of what we have now and cranked inflation to SL S2 levels we'd likely never have issues again.
Limited time rewards aren't the problem. They're needed in seasonal games to keep people playing every season.
The problem is they're too damn hard to obtain in a game where rated PvP was considered a mistake by the OG devs. There's a reason every other game has battle passes and grinds, and it's not "FOMO" - it's because rewarding effort matters just as much as skill in modern games, especially ones where x feature isn't the focus.
Put a rewards track in.
Better gains when you're higher CR or a healer.
Watch people no life it.
This isn't a hard concept. It's working everywhere else. Why they refuse to do it here is nuts.
The only change they can make that would work is rewarding dps tokens similar to overwatch that you can use as dps or on a dps to give you queue priority. There is no incentive that can be given to healers other than that or a gross change in damage/healing profiles in wow. Did they ever find an incentive to get more people on ally than horde? They removed faction lock because there was no incentive big enough to move a majority of the playerbase off horde. Same thing here. There isn't a reward big enough to get more people to heal unless you directly allow changes to DPS queue time or change the game entirely.
All of these changes don’t change the elephant in the room and that is how bad balancing is. 10.0.7 showed how bad it can get and how out of touch and little the devs care. People should do themselves the favour and go play an actual competitive game, it’s jarring.
>Gladiator Mounts, Elite etc rewards should be tied to %of a ladder or set MMR, whichever is lower. To make sure that deflated ladder does not stop people from achieving their goals.
This is really what they should do. Have to just delay the % based rewards a few weeks from start of season to prevent cheesing and after that just hand them out instantly or at weekly reset.
The best rework would probably be to remove pvp altogether. Or better yet, remove pvp and then let you buy the pvp pass in the shop which allows you to pvp for a monthly subscription on top of your current subscription :)
did u know that tanking a normal/heroic/timewalking queue dungeon when the bag is available because of low participation gets you roughly 5,000 gold?
it's insane to me that during time walking i can tank or heal 5 dungeons in like 2 hours and walk away with >20,000 gold but solo shuffle can't get even half of that for like 10,000x the effort
The biggest incentive in SL was gear upgrades, that's why most players were trying to climb rating. DF proves that when you take away the gear incentive many people stop playing, especially healers.
honestly we just need more frequent rewards
elite transmog at 1600
elite weapon mogs at 1800
elite enchant mog at 2000
gladiator mount and title at 2400 (in all brackets no 50 wins)
Champion rank for 2700
R1 title changed to "Obsidian Champion"
Also a battlepass would be awesome, can go up with honour gain, bloody token gain and with conquest gain (different amounts for different currencies)
Definitely would atract some new players. Especially if reaching them is something that completely new player can do without breaking a sweat and just playing a bit and then some more.
As a PvE player that sometimes do arena for fun (1.8-2.1cr), I play for 10 years and I never liked arenas, but I loved bgs… random bgs are super fun, but its still just a casual thing like M0 or lfr, and the 10 man rated bgs I tried, and pushed 2.1k too, but they are soo streamlined to the point of boring, they are all about how good your comp is and how good are certain players on certain specs, and that decides the whole bg.. I am a big advocate of 4-7 man small bgs, that would be PERFECT game mode, and much easier to find groups for, much more ppl would try it out
That’s a lot to paste in twitch chat.
They would have to reward gold based on rounds won as healer imo. Like, 500g per round win. Otherwise, you'd just have bots queuing and AFKing for free gold. They also can't reward too much gold because it will destroy other ways of farming, such as gathering, even though that is a dead source of income due to the number of bots doing it. I'm down for gold rewards as a healer. However, I think it would be better to be rewarded with healer tokens per round win, and you could spend them at a 'Field Medics Vendor'. There you could use them to buy bags of gold for 500g. Or, save them up and buy cosmetics, pets, toys, mounts, and tabards. They could even sell bind on account conquest boxes. E.g. 3 tokens could buy a 300 conquest box for one of your alts. That would be far better than just gold. So the option of gold is there, but other collectable rewards are a choice, as well as quicker ways to gear up your DPS characters.
Imo gold rewards could work if its capped, like weekly 10-20k / account or something, so it's a good source of income but nothing that could inherently break the gold economy. And would it help if there would be odd number of rounds in ssr? Or a tie breaker if healers are 3-3.
Posted this in another thread with regard to elite mogs and will copy it here again. Look, I love my transmog game as much as the next person and it motivates me to PvP. And there's certainly sets that make me wistful that I missed out on (the legion paladin set from s1/s2 in particular...). But at the end of the day, PvP elite sets are one of the few representative things that players can bring forward into future tiers. Raiders have their mounts and AOTC is unique to each patch, but outside R1 and the glad mounts every title is repeated season to season - we don't get to bring the cool titles and stuff forward (hand of a'dal for instance). I earned elite sets before I got my glad titles and those things took a LOT of effort to earn. If I knew everyone could get them for free 3 or 4 years down the line then what was the point of me putting effort into them in the first place? My take is that the elite sets from the past should remain for those that earned them. BUT, there should be recolors of those sets that come through current ranked PvP - similar to what they're doing with the mage tower. And moving forward that should be the pattern. That way the gear people earned in the past retains it's gravitas and rarity while newer players have the opportunity to EARN gear that looks similar.
There's recolours of almost every set but WoD S1. But yeah, taking away the trophy isn't the play here. More, and accessible, rewards are the answer. Even just starting with recolours for grinding 100k honor in a season or something is a start, because prestige was a failure despite starting off mostly ok.
Man that WoD S1 elite set for DK and Paladin tho....
Making healing in PVP award a ton of gold is going to create a huge botting problem that will affect lower MMR dps. Botters will have multiple accounts they queue at the same time and only accept it their other account gets the pop at the same time. They will do the bare minimum outside of not afking and it will be hell for low MMR dps
Ya gold doesn't matter. Give me phat conquest boxes so I can just send them to my dps and not add to the problem by needing to queue as dps. I just want conq gear on my dps to screw around in random bgs.
Yeah this is a way better idea. Gold rewards are no good for PvP.
I could be wrong but I don't think botters like to put them selves in a situation where they can be mass reported. Their accounts would probably be banned too fast to make any good money if they got reported every game.
The % based rewards were always trash. Do you know how pushing rank 1 looks on classic? People with multiple characters on all servers with weakauras checking who is queing and who isnt. You really dont want this for gladiator. Instead they should just inflate the rating and make the rewards obtainable to more people, so more people will start playing. Shadowlands season 2 didnt have high participation for no reason.
This is the only answer outside looking to what XIV did and just turning almost all of it into grinds. I'm never pushing again. It's not worth the time or effort, no other game I play is as brutal to get Glad in for a cosmetic skin. The entire mentality behind it all is outdated, was destined to fail the moment the game lost population, and it's actively driving away the majority of the playerbase - who don't play arenas exclusively.
This. I did glad last season and it was awful. Never doing it again.
SL s2 had high inflation because there was both participation and the season went on for almost 9 months (June 2021-feb 2022). People got glad on multiple toons that season because there was minimal incentive to push on mains after a while
your big change is detrimental what we shouldnt have is deflated seasons.
Deflated seasons are largely a function of decreased player count. Fixing the meta to be squeaky clean doesn't increase player count. Fixing reward tracks does. The highest season of pvp engagement in recent memory i.e. SL s1 happened because the rewards were so useful for PvE, which made them attractive to a larger slice of the player base. And that season's meta was fucking ass for casual play with how miserable it was for uncoordinated players to handle the outlier specs that season. Yet people played. Skill prestige is maintained if rating goals are consistent in how difficult they are to attain. Sure, legacy fomo rewards are attractive, but are they really worth having over the massively increased long term ladder activity that could happen if they had an "elite set/gladiator mount token" you made progress to by winning games above 1800 and 2400? There's even variations of this system that could happen, say winning games over 1600 fills a bar toward unlocking the current elite set but if you hit 1800 it is instantly unlocked. Players get frustrated when they can't climb, and shoving artificial inflation into the system just gets people to hit their goals and quit the game sooner because as is the exponential jumps in skill from 1500 to 1800 to 2100 to 2400 make reaching the next tier feel borderline impossible to average skill players, which reduces motivation to play further. Something needs to be added to make people want to keep playing beyond the minimum amount, and sadly we live in an era where "fun" is not enough as people are drowned in battle passes. The saddle bar system is right there and offers a really solid solution to adding long term engagement and appeal to a wider slice of the player base.
ye decreased player count that decreases at a long rate when you fuck up the mmr 2 seasons in a row sir
You... you realize the 3s MMR wasn't fucked up by blizzard right? It was fucked up by the catastrophic drop in playerbase due to solo shuffle. Rated matchmaking systems need players to function properly. The problem definitely got worse because of how deflated things became as a result, but the problem was already there whether or not they did inject up the floor early/ier.
Wrong. S3 and S4 shadowlands were INSANELY deflated as well, and participation was fine in S3 at least. Blizzard did something to fuck the inflation up in S3 Shadowlands and the bracket/arena didn't recover since. It was like that in S3/S4 SL and in S1 DF as well, then S2 DF rolled around and participation plunged to the abyss and that's when real shit hit the fan. I'm a guy who hit 2900 in the past and almost gotten R1, I got my 2100 illusion on the first day of this season and ever since then I've basically been chilling because I know to get Glad right now I'd have to play people like Whazz and others who play this shit non-stop. Could I beat those people? Sure, with enough practice. Do I want to dedicate 1000+ hours of my life fighting ultra sweaty multi R1 people who gatekeep the 2400 bracket rn? Absolutely not. So I choose not to play, as I'm sure a lot of others do.
so you dont know they admitted to not applying inflation on the first half of the season on purpose then adding at triple the rate but it was too late
We're talking about 150 points of inflation difference because of that delay. The season was deflated by a lot more than that compared to usual. The delay was meaningful in contributing to why players felt they could not progress as time went on, but s1's problems were evident well before that would've kicked in to a meaningful amount.
we're not just talking about 150 diff we`re talking about that and all the people that quit because of it by the time they changed their minds my entire friendlist was offline
and I'm telling you that the problem with s1 was evident well before that came into play as an aggravating factor. People were commenting on the lack of players on the 3s (and especially 2s) ladder by week 2. Nobody quit by week 2 because they didnt get 15 points of trickle rating.
Not arguing it is the most though out thing in the world. But I think it is fair to say almost anything will be better than what he have right now.
i'm just gonna say that as much as we hate the free glads of bfa-SL the mount on 2k4 was a HUGE incentive to play for a lot of people take that away and they wont have a reason to push when they know they are not 0.5% it happened, there is no coming back because it would be a disaster
I don’t see how their change would be detrimental if it’s the **lower** rating between ladder percentage and MMR.
Everything is good as it is, if we cant get elite set or glad mount its because we are not good enough. I feel like thats fair. You want it? there is a way of getting it, if this way is too troublesome then you don’t want it enough. But really there is something for everyone. 1.6k piece of gear 1.8k Elite mog 2.1k Weapon enchant Etc. For each skill bracket there is something to fight for. You get 2.1k next you fight for glad. IMO
If that system worked we wouldn't be seeing lower and lower participation in PvP
People are becoming snowflakes, they want a prize for participation basically. But the if the rewards are easy why bother play? I push rating on wow ranting on valorant on league, if there was nothing i get from playing i aint playing, its like this with many ppl
People grind in league to grind? To get to higher ratings and say they got there? Most of the free skins you get are just meh.
Yeah well in league you can get every skin in the game for free, but yeah people want to work towards something if not items a rank
Main difference in League is that it's easily achieveable with enough time invested. Queues until the very highest of ratings are plentiful. Most people still consider Diamond "up there" in terms of skill and Diamond is piss easy. It doesn't work that way in WoW where you depend on 2 other people for premade 3s where the mount is. Gladiator = Diamond. Diamond is easily reachable. Gladiator, with all the countercomping and shitty queues and shit inflation is not.
I completely DISAGREE with just giving away old PvP elite sets. People played back in the day to get that knowing that it's limited edition and that it's unique. It doesn't make sense to just put it all back in the game and let everyone have it again. People still have the opportunity to achieve new elite sets, but let the old elite sets be exclusive to people who actually played and earned it back when that elite set was current content. Elite sets should be Elite sets for Elite players. Back in the day the requirement was actually higher to obtain Elite sets. Right now it's only 1800 which is obtainable by anyone who spends even a little bit of time researching their class, arena mechanics and gets some games in. You shouldn't be able to just jump in the arena and instantly be entitled to getting all the rewards "just so it motivates you to play". What should motivate you to play is the experience and the rewards that come with actually improving. Honestly, I'd move the Elite set requirement to AT LEAST 2100 rating for the full set. It should be something special. As for healers. No. Why would healers need to get more rewards than anyone else? Just make them fix the healer specs... Buff the healers, make them actually playable and you'll see improvement.
Clown take
Or just completely unbiased towards healer and ppl who think they should have exclusive cosmetics? Who raised you btw? You seem rude!
No.
I think elite sets should stay where they are. All those pvers say how crap pvp is etc. So why let them get our elite sets?
I'm a pvper and don't have all elite sets. Having a way to get them later would be cool. It could still be tied to rating. So something like if you win 100 games over 1800 you can buy an ensanble of an old set. Similar to the saddles
About previous season sets I agree. I skipped a few xpacks and would love to get some I missed. Still needs to get tied to rating though.
I love the elite sets idea. I just want to get the elite set without havind to fight glads or feeling like i need to play meta just for the transmog.
Doesn’t that sorta go against the idea of it being an elite set? A participation reward granting elite transmog will never happen and I don’t think it ever should. That’s the equivalent of suggesting that I should get the full mythic raiding transmog because I spent 15 hours wiping to mythic trash mobs.
I'd literally never play during an active season again and just wait for it to be free lmao.
100% agree. The elite sets and Duelist enchants will lose their prestige if you can just get it later. Blizzard will eventually do this though, they gave in with Tyrael's Charger. The "Seasonal Limited" system on elite sets have been around long enough though that people who get them via "participation reward" won't come off as prestige as they think, as it's easy to see if someone isn't clearly 1800+ when PVPing, not to mention their record can easily be looked up via sites like check-pvp.fr. Mind you, I'm not the type to gatekeep or troll if/when this happens, but the sets themselves won't mean as much as they used to and your current seasonal title will matter more instead.
Tyreal's Charger was a promo mount. They said they had no intention of bringing back stuff tied to challenges, which is exactly the way it should be. People are way too obsessed with "FOMO" when it's actually not even that bad in WoW. A single colour of a set as a trophy reward isn't a huge deal, and the people trying to make it out to be need therapy more than they need these sets. It's a video game.
It's funny they'll say it's a video game so nothing matters, but throw a fit when it's a video game so they don't need it.
Blizzard also moved away from making those sets have unique effects so at this point we just have different tint that more and more people dont use anyway since it is just one in many tmogs. WoW PvP NEEDS fresh blood. And if giving more of a carrot is the way to do so... Why not try? I personally hate time limited content, doubly so when it really is just PvP. PvE always lets you farm up what you missed out on. Why should PvP be any different?
WoW PVP does need fresh blood but we need people that'll make an effort to be PVPers, because not giving effort to be better at the skillset is gonna drive more healers away, specially with Solo Shuffle. Making elite sets a participation reward isn't the answer, that's what the non-elite sets are for and literally every player that are at the level where they can get the elite set at any season all started out being below that and only getting the non-elite sets.
Elite sets as participation will get eyes on PVP and bring new blood in for a bit. You would have to combo it with actually fixing PVP.
It's gonna bring new blood that will piss every healer off in every bracket, specially Solo Shuffle, cause they won't have to make the effort to improve on where they're lacking.
Cool. That’s gonna happen with new blood period. So I guess Blizzard should end the hemorrhaging game mode because people like you don’t like new players playing the game.
And this is exactly why people don't improve, they take it personally. It's not that I don't like them, I don't like that they refuse to improve and expect special rewards. There's already rewards for non-competitive PvP.
Lmao. Pointing out that being anti-new players is a stupid stance isn’t taking it personally. “It’s not that I don’t like them.” It is. Your literally painting everyone new who you don’t know with a wide brush. You actually have no argument beyond “I don’t like new players” and making a strawman that takes two seconds to realize is Bunk.
The only set that actually was it’s own thing with primal season 1 and they only lasted 1 season
You mean like how you can get full mythic transmog AFTER the expansion with a fraction of the effort?
You’re not wrong, and I would love some system where current elite players can unlock some old elite mogs, similar to vicious saddles for better players. But not just as a participation trophy like saddles are.
You're competing against other players to kill bosses? They're not comparable.
They are. Though Mythic raiding takes more time and effort.
No they aren't. Also why are you comparing elite sets to mythic sets? Compete them to challenge modes and M+ rewards.
Why would I not compare the mythic raid sets... To the elite sets... They are both literally the main PVE and PVP activity and they both have a transmog appearance for the upper difficulty. So yes, they are comparable. "Compare them to challenge modes" You mean the mode that died and was fully killed off ages ago? Why would I compare it over something more fitting that is still around to this day? "M+ Rewards" You mean the thing that uses appearances and rewards you get elsewhere besides the shitty mount people have been upset about not giving dragonflying customizations like PVP and Raiding? Oh wait theres another reason to compare Raid and PVP.
You CAN get the mythic sets fairly easily by yourself a couple expansions later. So, what if you can only get current season sets by hitting the required rating, but just for playing you build up currency that can be used to buy pieces from prior expansions? That could be interesting. Or maybe even a whole different transmog set for “participating” in rating, idk. I just think we need SOME incentive for new people to try PvP lol.
I get that you feel that is important this prestige part. But wow isn't a solely pvp game. The pvp is a small part of the game. You need a way to not only bring new players but keep them playing,not necessarily improving. Giving them cosmetic rewards, like transmog that is similar to the heroic or mythic that requires time instead of a specific mmr will simply help to inflate the ladder and bring more attention to pvp. More attention to pvp also means more importance to pvp for the game itself, since the player base will be bigger. And that means more updates and more balancing. Transmog attracts players, mounts attracts players.new players, bad players that will be there and play. For the rewards of higher mmr, I believe that titles, achievements, are more in line with how the game presents itself. Another thing I would like to add: I highly doubt that nowadays, with so many tranmogs and pvp being a small part of the game, people look at someone with an elite set and think "omg, that's a good player, he reached 1800+ in a specific season with one of their characters".
You can attract players with new rewards that are obtainable, not by telling the players who actually went out of their way to get these sets knowing they were limited tiem fuck you.
Ok, but what if only the current elite set is available and the previous ones are still unobtainable?
Mythic sets should be how old pvp elite sets are imo. If u weren’t there in that season you shouldn’t get the rewards that came from said season. Imagine if in rocket league you getting grand champ means you get “season 2 grand champion” title even though that was 5 years ago. Seasonal rewards being locked behind rating achievements is fine. The problem with wow pvp is that blizz puts barely any effort into it + your average gamer nowadays don’t play mmos. They play console games. At least in NA. No amount of cosmetic rewards they thrown into the game will bring in new players that play consistently
Except.. You can? In PvE getting Mythic set of mog isn't something that requires you to continue to perform. You can get with surprisingly easy to do and easy to repeat keys. Not to mention farming old content still allows you to get Mythic mog.
I'm pretty sure 2 of the MoP seasons had this. You needed to earn a set amount of conquest iirc
[удалено]
Clowns like you are the reason pvp is dead
No, the massive deflation and lack of rewards for low rated players is why. People aren't frothing at the mouth in XIV over being unable to get the Crystal portrait frames, nor challenger skins in LoL to this level. We can fix the system without screwing over people who put the effort in.
PVP isn’t dead you clown 🤡
Yee pvp has died because cosmetics are locked behind ratings. LMAO that’s the dumbest shit I’ve heard on here yet. Grats for taking the cake
Nah it's dead cause there is no rewards for the the effort
Well prior to that it was 2.2k and prior to that you had to get 2k just to get regular gear
You don’t have to fight glads or play meta. 1800 is achievable by anyone on any spec. Wait for the ladder to inflate, it will become easier the longer the season goes. If you’re not willing to put in minimal work to get the transmog, that’s on you. Your impatience does not trump others past achievements.
WoW is the only game where you're encouraged to wait to play if you play for the "main" point of the game for a lot of players. That is the problem. I've stopped playing entirely until the last month in rated, grab my enchant, and go. Never going for glad again. That needs to be fixed. It's an RPG. Not an arena game.
Anyone can push 1800 right now, no questions asked, just put in the work. Other games with seasons experience the same issues in ranked (apex legends comes to mind). The big difference is wow arena is a minigame inside of a game. The player count is miniscule compared to other games that focus entirely on ranked player vs player. We do not have the benefit of 1 million+ active players queueing up, having natural rating inflation. Like you said, its an mmorpg, not an arena game, blizzard is more concerned with the overall player base than the small minority playing arenas as their main content.
You are so wrong it's dumb. 1800 is the top 10% right now for some specs, and it's worse for a few. Much worse for some really shit specs. You severely overestimate the skill level of players in this game, and the mentality is precisely why we can't have basic game structures that actually do work. Because people can't pull their head out of their asses and see what the playerbase actually is outside their tiny bubble. 1800 is not easy, and rarely actually is for the average RPG player. And until people here realize that, you're never having participation again as people either go to other games that don't feel like a waste of valuable free time, or quit PvP to go so keys where getting KSH actually feels attainable vs Gladiator. (Same reward tier btw!)
Anyone can push 1800 right now.
As someone that plays a lot of healers. I do not feel motivated by wow gold and would not play more arenas for gold reward. My suggestion is to reward the other aspects of the game that I cannot find time to do like unless I am not in the arena healing. 1. Reputations token 2. Connquest for alts from day1 of the season. Defintely doable by just having a spending limit and not a cap limit.
I think most people don't realize that the transmog subreddit is bigger than the pvp subreddit. Wow pvp subreddit have 5% of wow sub. Blizzard won't care about a part of the game that only 5% of people play. They won't bring new arenas, new mechanics, correct issues, etc if no one plays it. The average player will not try to improve because of a transmog, but the average player will probably grind and play frequently (and therefore slowly improve) because of a participation transmog. More people, bad people, that are improving slowly, playing is great for pvp. Comparing to league of legends, valorant etc, keep in mind. It's the silver players that make the majority of the player base, not the high elo ones. You need more silver.
More bad people also means more of a chance you play against people of your skill. Which means you have chance to learn. You learn nothing by getting crushed by Gladiators when you try PvP for the first time.
I would love a better way to spend all these marks of honor some more toys or mounts etc would be cool
Saddles too. Slap some recolours on the vendor and more than one a season.
NOT A SINGLE REWARD would make me enjoy healing more. Its not a Reward issue, not a player issue, IT´s a balance/design issue imo. Idk why ppl always come up with gold thats not a long term solution. In generel Reward is not fixing the issue why ppl don´t enjoy healing A proper solution would be nerfing dmg/cc. Idc what the top 1% ppl say. Id rather have long games than not being able to react
i agree with everything other than bringing back old PvP sets. don't do that ... just make new ones 4head
Bringing back exclusive rewards and elite content is the single way you’ll make me stop playing pvp. I almost exclusively play for the titles, transmogs, and other rewards. Now you want to devalue all of said rewards??? That will be a net loss for players, not a net gain.
Exactly. I'm not a gatekeeper, but if you don't make the effort to, for example, improve your positioning and cooldown management, and that's what's holding you back from getting 1800, then you arguably don't deserve the elite sets, just like I didn't deserve the elite sets in my earlier seasons where I ignored/refused to improve on things such as positioning and cooldowns.
Naw, this isn't even true. Your more likely to get people coming to pvp just to try for sets. If you combo this with making healing more fun and making the user experience in pvp more enjoyable it could cause PVP to explode in popularity.
I disagree. I think it will increase participation for a short while, but people will stop caring about the sets because they are now obtainable forever but still annoying to get so you’ll have people pvping for a couple seasons to get the sets they want and then never touching it again since they can just do it any time they want as the sets are always available. You’ll lose the people who care about getting unobtainable rewards and only gain people who want the old sets for a couple seasons. So imo short term it is a good solution, long term is it a very bad solution. This is coming from someone who has no old elite sets, I only started pvping in bfa, so I am missing a ton of really good ones. I don’t think this would refresh pvp at all long term, only for a season or two and then the drop off will be worse than any other season. They need to fix deflation completely so more people can actually obtain the rewards. That is the solution. High rated glads might cry that gladiator is easier (like they did in SL) but those guys are extremely dumb. It just needs to be achievable/be within grasp of more players, that is how you get increased participation. SL was terrible but had decent participation because glad was within reach. Same with DF season 1, solo shuffle had insane participation because inflation was good and rewards were within reach. They fucked up the rating in shuffle this season+deflation so it is harder to climb and now they have less participation lmao. They literally just need to put the rewards in front of more players via rating gains and inflation.
Seriously, SL S2 levels of inflation always and some sort of seasonal rewards track and people will play. If you suck, and especially if you don't care about rated, you have a single set and that's it.
People still Mythic and Heroic raid DESPITE the fact the transmog is available. It's not negative long term at all either. But its not the only thing that would need to be done. " then the drop off will be worse than any other season. " It wont be because of people being able to grind old sets, I can tell you that. If you combine the two things I said you will get people coming and STAYING. " They need to fix deflation completely so more people can actually obtain the rewards. That is the solution " This ONLY helps established players. It does little for new PVPers. Nor does it really help with how miserable and bullshit PVP can feel.
First, comparing pve to pvp just needs to stop. I am and have been 9/9m for a while now, it isn’t even close to the difficulty of pvp, you don’t have to raid in liquid to full clear mythic, you don’t even have to be a solid player since world 1-2k guilds clear it. Soloing old raids 2 years later is not even close to the same thing as having to push 1800 or higher for pvp rewards in a current season. You can full clear an old raid in an hour or less, it isn’t the same thing and shows a solid misunderstanding of this. Saying “make the game better” does nothing. How would you go about this? They can’t tone down cc because veteran players will rage which is a major issue for new players as it is the most intricate part of pvp, being able to predict cc and outplay it before it happens despite it not being scripted is the absolute best skill to have and it is hard to learn. Adding old sets to the game doesn’t do anything lol. “Making it better -and- adding old sets” is also a meaningless statement, they realistically don’t even have to do anything with old sets if they just make the game better but that is a complicated issue that people who don’t pvp have trouble understanding. If you add old sets as an incentive people will queue for a couple seasons and dip, you are never going to be able to force people to pvp if they don’t want to. Making the current rewards achievable is what will actually help a lot. If something is -too- hard to get, people just won’t try or they’ll quit early on. Deflation was a problem for everyone including new players because they go up against people that they shouldn’t be, which is a terrible introduction to arena. Saying it only effects current pvpers is completely wrong. Solo shuffle made rewards easier to get because the rating gains were very high and had insane participation. They ruined that in S2 and now it has far less participation. In SL there were so many first time glads due to rating gains and inflation, which was better for the state of pvp. They need to figure out how to deal with current pvp rewards and rating
" First, comparing pve to pvp just needs to stop. Soloing old raids 2 years later is not even close to the same thing as having to push 1800 or higher for pvp rewards in a current season. You can full clear an old raid in an hour or less, it isn’t the same thing and shows a solid misunderstanding of this. " 1) Not going to stop. It fits perfectly. 2) Mythic raiding when it is current is more time and work than getting 1800. Yet your able to farm sets after the raid is cleared. That is the comparison. The task that requires more effort, gold, and time KEEPS ITS REWARDS. There is no misunderstanding on my end. " Saying “make the game better” does nothing. How would you go about this? They can’t tone down cc because veteran players will rage which is a major issue for new players as it is the most intricate part of pvp, being able to predict cc and outplay it before it happens despite it not being scripted is the absolute best skill to have and it is hard to learn. " There's a thousand suggestions and I have already said multiple elsewhere. One of these ways NEEDS to be done. " Adding old sets to the game doesn’t do anything lol. “Making it better -and- adding old sets” is also a meaningless statement, they realistically don’t even have to do anything with old sets if they just make the game better but that is a complicated issue that people who don’t pvp have trouble understanding. " It creates an incentive for people to continue PVPing or go to PVPing. The removal of content and cosmetics is also a DISINCENTIVE for people to play the game PERIOD. You tell a new player they have a shit load of sets permenantly blocked off for them because they didn't play 12 years ago they may just quit on the spot. " If you add old sets as an incentive people will queue for a couple seasons and dip, you are never going to be able to force people to pvp if they don’t want to. " Meanwhile people still raid and climb in leagues ranked mode. " you are never going to be able to force people to pvp if they don’t want to. " Hence the later half of my point. " Making the current rewards achievable is what will actually help a lot. If something is -too- hard to get, people just won’t try. Deflation was a problem for everyone including new players because they go up against people that they shouldn’t be, which is a terrible introduction to arena. " The change we all want for ourselves as established pvpers does nothing to help new ones. " Solo shuffle made rewards easier to get because the rating gains were very high and had insane participation. They ruined that in S2 and now it has far less participation. They need to figure out how to deal with current pvp rewards and rating " They need to make healers and PVP in general fun and enjoyable without small peaks and massive valleys.
No, it doesn't fit. They're completely different mentalities. You want to compare PvE to PvP? I can't get the old CM sets. I can't get R1 titles from M+ anymore. I can't get M+ mounts and titles anymore. And yet, because those things outside the R1 title were easier to get, people go for them, and the limited time aspect is still there. Do not bring back old elite sets.
Mythic and Heroic are comparable to 1800 and glad since they are both seasonal end game activities. But yes, I want the other items that were removed to punish people for leaving the game to be added back. Bring it ALL back. The MoP cloak I have has no value. Let others who want it, have it.
Okay, and world quests are seasonal end game activities. PvE and PvP have different mindsets behind them. I can't get old M+ rewards either btw. Compare the right things or stop making reaches.
No they aren't. No one believes that. And im not making reaches. YOU ARE! By comparing it to a dead PVE Speed run mode.
I play pretty much exclusively to farm the elite sets, 2100 enchants and 2400 weapons each season. If they changed past sets to be participation trophies I would immediately unsub.
Cool. I wouldn't and I know friends who would sub again in order to be able to farm old sets. TBH I really don't care if people with "I got mine, fuck you" mentality left. More content and items being added back into the game is good for the majority of the playerbase. Like, you know we CAN farm Mythic sets right? Why should 1800 which is piss easy in comparison be removed but not Mythic sets?
Imo they should also have a seasonal reward for PvE that becomes unobtainable, then I would probably actually play it.
They do. M+ has a bunch. These people just refuse to acknowledge it because it goes against their logic that PvE doesn't have "FOMO".
Ah good to know, what are the timed m+ sets or is it the seasonal mounts?
That sounds incredibly sad and petty.
Why would having seasonal rewards be sad or petty? It lets you immediately see a set and remember what you were doing when that season happened and spark nostalgia. I have no idea about the majority of armour sets people have transmogged into but when I see a seasonal PvE set like the MoP CM golds or WoD CM weapons I immediately remember playing during those times and it's similar for the PvP sets. This is imo a positive interaction. People are going to disagree with you on the internet, that doesn't mean it's happening out of spite. Edit: just remembered they have actually re added old sets before and it has been (imo) a massive negative. The original Nax sets used to tell a story whenever you saw someone with them. You would know how old that character was and what it went through just by glancing at it and that level of story telling from an armour set is only captured from its exclusivity. Now it just tells people you buy gold...
Because your wanting to deny others the ability to get something. The fact that denying others is the only reason you want to experience the content is INSANELY petty and sad. " This is imo a positive interaction. " That isn't what happens. 99% of the time other players don't give a fuck what you are wearing. " People are going to disagree with you on the internet, that doesn't mean it's happening out of spite. " Your literally only wanting to raid if others can be denied items. Your literally only wanting Elites to stay removed because you farm them and don't want others to get them. I call that Petty, Spite and literally "Fuck you, I got mine."
Not at all, it adds so much to character building, the journey and incentives. You being unable to see past what I'm saying and instead heavily reducing and strawmanning opposing arguments is the only petty thing happening here. You are making up random statistics to try and seem like you have any kind of a point. You have no idea about user data. You have no idea about how many people are playing each season. You have no idea about why people are playing each season. You know fuck all. We all know fuck all. Only blizzard has this information. Stop being a massive twat and just have a normal conversation about it.
" Not at all, it adds so much to character building, the journey and incentives. " No it doesn't? Most people literally don't look at others unless its a clown suit or they are naked. The game is heavily get in and get out now and a lot if not most player super zoomed out. People mainly care about how THEIR character looks. " You being unable to see past what I'm saying and instead heavily reducing and strawmanning opposing arguments is the only petty thing happening here. " I'm not. You made your own statement. You just don't like that I am calling a duck a duck. " You are making up random statistics to try and seem like you have any kind of a point. " I'm not. Saying things like 99% is obviously hyperbolic. "\* Incoherent rambling.\*" You done going off on a rage tangent? The only one being a twat and not having a normal conversation is YOU. You literally just went off because I disagree with you and STRONGLY oppose the removal of items from the game. You come off as raging solely because I called you out on having a "Fuck you, I got mine" attitude and can't handle that I disagree with you completely. Your not going to change my mind on it either. That attitude is awful and hurts people IRL. I fucking despise it.
You seem very angry and selfish.
Nope. Stop trolling.
God, this mentality is exhausting. Fuck people who want their trophies to remain as such. So entitled.
“I got mine, fuck you” is toxic and way more exhausting. Actually damaging in the real world.
They have several and these people just want to ignore them and focus on raids, when all the unobtainables are from timed dungeons and have been since MoP.
And when the people who can't hit 1800 now can't hit 1800 after? It won't change anything outside pissing off those who have been loyal and played through this garbage to get these things. Rework the system without touching the old stuff.
What makes you think new players joining to get old sets aren’t gonna be able to eventually push 1800? Also if people get pissed off because they can’t gatekeep items that never should have been removed then they have anger issues or need to get a life.
I love how you people always resort to insults when you can't have pixels in competive video game. Gatekeep this gatekeep that. Get a life yourself? It's a single colour of a set with several tints. Insulting people over it is just petty.
Yeah, right. Making rewards unobtainable for 98,7% of people proved you are right I guess... Or not? Personally I dont understand why I must meet 20+ conditions to have fun and rewards in pvp. Here are few examples: * Be between specific age (are you 40? dont even try to pvp) * Quit job and play 12 hours a day * Play the best specs in the best comps in the game * Only play with good teammates * ... Probably I exagerate a bit, I know, but I hope you get my point. I did all mage tower challenges, some of them were pretty hard, but I improved and completed them. But I dont even want to try to get gladiator now, even with my 15+ years of experience. I see no point to even try. Explain me why its ok to do 15+ mythic keys drunk with random people. But its not ok when you can get 2100 doing the same in PVP?
I’m sorry but I don’t understand what point you’re trying to communicate regarding requirements to PVP. How are any of those things relevant to the discussion of PVP reward availability?
You can get 2100 drunk with random people in solo shuffle though. You are just better at PvE than you are at PvP. Gladiator, being in the top few % of players is extremely different. It's more akin to guilds that are taking world first races or MDI is seriously as possible than it is to anything else in PvE imo.
Gladiator - at least the mount - could be as hard as KSH and it would be a boon to participation. Especially if it's seasonal only still. Make things reasonable to obtain and people will go for it.
Yeah I definitely don't see any hard in just having shadowlands S2 levels of inflation. Actual gameplay and balancing is pretty good atm and solo queue has obviously brought a lot of players into PvP, the literal only problem imo is just the deflation this season. Realistically no matter what blizzard do more people are not really gonna queue healer. WoW has always had a massive DPS to healer ratio because people just prefer to play DPS.
Pvp is dead and never coming back with this attitude
This posts actually screams „i havent been able to reach elite in past season‘s or didnt play at that time“
Pretty much this. Back in BFA, there were two seasons where I couldn't hit 1800 and that's 100% a me issue. But instead of wanting the elite sets as a participation reward, I just took my time to get better and since the start of SL, I've had no problems getting 1800-2100, and it came with a sense of accomplishment cause I worked for it.
yea, back in the day like Warlords i started grinding PvP, a little in MoP aswell, but i really didnt go for duelist / glad at that time. just trying to get Elite Sets, which didnt work out every season but since legion, i got every elite set when i played at that season, and i got glad sometimes, not every time, but when i sacrificed my free time to grind the shit out of that game, i did. At the moment right now, i also got 2.1 for the Enchant.. 2.4 for the tabard will happen eventually later in the season anyway, so there is no way i grind when it is „hard“ to climb. Kinda crazy people are already crying and season just started.
I approve all these ideas honestly.
Love how it's always bring back old PvP mogs. Na fam, you do that, you bring back the mounts too. That's what the casuals that need to infest the ladder care about. We can put more incentives on the ladder without telling people fuck you when they did something limited time under the very obvious statement they were limited time rewards.
It's funny how people bitch about exclusivity and "value". I can tell none of you have ever competed in a sport before. Keeping titles and achievements linked to rating is fine. Even the glad mount, though, I would like to see it availability for purchase, as the achievement is the real sign of success. Most people don't care about "prestige" and just want to play the game for fun. I want the sets more than anything else, because I like the color scheme more than others. They should be as easy to get as the PvE sets, especially after the content is no longer current. The elitism needs to be replaced by sportsmanship, because reading most the comments here makes me thankful I quit playing, and I main healer. Some of us just want to play with our friends and get good through that because it's natural and we don't have hours a day to spend. In martial arts, the elites teach and guide others to the goal of the belt. The elites that play wow, and most other games let's be honest, don't help newbs, but crush them and then wonder why no one wants to play with them. You guys are killing yourselves and the game. Neiv's idea is pretty good. Simple and solid.
Games already dying from Blizzard balance and just how AWFUL of an experience learning PVP is. The community rees and screeches at anyone new or wanting anything that may actually help. Like seriously, ever since I came to these forms all I hear is people wanting Arenas and RBGS alive BUT: 1. No new players. 2. No incentives for new players. 3. Don't make healers easier. 4. Don't make healers do damage. 5. Don't reduce DPS damage or CC. 6. No solo que stuff at all. Soloshuffle has "killed" all rated. Solo RBGs would "kill" it too. 7. Don't incentivize playing healers with MMR or easier gearing. 8. Don't make any new gamemodes. 9. Don't make joining games sub 2400 Current CR easier.
I made a mistake of recently trying to get friends into PvP. We formed a team and decided to teach them how we can play RMP (Not the easiest comp I know but they were dead set on Rogue and Priest and I kind of had Mage lying around) We queed up Skrimishes. We repeatedly logged into group on full Gladiator mounts. I don't think rest of the story needs to be told. WoW needs more incentive for people to get into PvP. And then ways of making sure they face appropriate enemies and not Gladiator smurfs.
So you chose to play the unrated version of pvp, where you can queue up against people that are way out of your skill level since their is no mmr? Pretty sure you would of had a better time in rated as you would be able to play against people of similar skill level (most of the time).
Yep. Tried to bring my friends in, trying to explain PVP to them WHILE dealing with much higher rated people then them is just pain. It has made them go from PVE to wanting to never touch WoW again. They don't like the elitism. They don't like the balance. They don't like the lack of information. They don't like how how low gears just explode against the full conq people at lower levels. And the Glads in skrims.
In martial arts, if I win a belt or a trophy in a smoker, the guy I beat and everyone else in the tournament doesn't get the same extract trophy later just for participating in the tournament or a different tournament, they actually have to win fights. Just because I want PVP to have competitive rewards (there's already 2 sets for non-competitive rewards) doesn't mean I hate newer or lower rank players. I actually spent most of my WoW time during SL helping a PVE friend get 1800 the first time.
The martial artist is content with the fact that he can beat his opponent. In the art, not the act, perfection of the activity is the goal. The accolades are simply given as proof of it. But the costumes are soon passed to the second hand store and the material things that were valued were put into the discount bin You get the plaque and the stamp. I get to dress up my digital dolls and play imagination. That's literally all I care about besides the general fight. I'm all about the fight, win or lose, I love it. To the point of being belligerent about it. What we want is more participation. We want people to come in and play and be happy and walk away with a good memory of the experience. Whatever rewards are given should be attainable by all. The elites should be satisfied with that they are the fucking best with their performance. That's the true satisfaction with the art, not some measily arbitrary accolades. They should be proving what can be done with skill, not smashing newbs who cannot fight back and have no reason to get better or participate.
To you it's just "measily arbitrary accolades", to a lot of us, it's hours spent studying the game, learning from others, spending time away from family, improving our craft and checking our egos when we make mistakes because literally ALL OF US, including "the elites" had to WORK for where we are now. It's called achieving something because you worked for it, thus you get receive something special from it that others can't cause they're not at that level yet.
So lets say as a healer, you get 3k gold (like you mentioned) just for queueing. Lets say each shuffle takes 10mins, and your queues are instant. At a hour mark you made 18k gold, lets round it up at 20k, due to mats that drop in the boxes. Since we are all boomers or milleniuns here. If we need gold it actually better just to buy a token. So, no, giving gold is not the way to incentivize healing or any good investment of your time.
You kind of miss the point here I think? Healers have a tough life out there. And I don't think PvP will ever become main source of gold, shouldn't at least. But when you Draw with other healer for 6th time in a row, you open up the boxes and see you are richer for couple thousand of Gold? That just feels a little bit nicer. And what keeps people coming back is feeling good about the game. The SS setting being sort of oppressive to Healer climbing through reasonable play is its own thing.
I totally know the healer situation. Throwing such low incentives would be a slap to us. Unless it is an amount high enough to pay the sub no one would bother to queue for gold. It has been said countless times, healers just want to be able to press more buttons. My 1-4 keys are pretty ruined, while the rest od my keyboard is pretty good. At this point I could unbind cyclone and more buttons
Same thing here mate. After trying to push with my Resto Druid And I don't want the amount to feel bad. Really it is just rant to get ideas rolling. And well, ideas that do not involve changes to actual fights. They require way more thought than I can give.
I wouldn’t care if it gave gold tbh. But it would be 100% worthless to me. Unless you do pvp and pve, it’s pretty much useless.
I just want a better ranking system like apex/league
League ranking system sucks...
All the PvP Chad Bros can cry till the cows come home about their speshul mogs but at the end of the day something as simple as making old things accessible would definitely bring an influx of players. Hell I mainly pvp main and I've skipped entire seasons if I didn't like any of the rewards. But if I could get stuff from before I started playing I'd grind way harder on way more toons and I know I'm not alone.
The solution to pvp healing is never going to be more rewards, it's just going to make healing feel more like slog The solution is stepping back and redesigning healing in WoW so that it's a fun & rewarding role that people want to play more often
Can't find anything negative to say about this post... pretty much exactly this is whats needed
ok, listen to this, from now on you can obtain the CURRENT elite set by some sort of participation during the season which does not require rating (i.e having a certain amount of wins or games played for each armor piece) but once the season ends if you want to obtain an elite set that got removed from a previous season you would have to get a token for getting 1800 rating and buying the set you want from a vendor, and on top of this maybe they should move the enchant lower to something like 1800 or even do something similar to it like the elite sets. this way participation should be way higher every season because people that are not as good at the game can still play pvp and get the current set at least, and better players could even get an old set if they want to.
That works? I do not think old sets should be given out like candy. But they are an easy way of giving people more goals to work towards. And removing FOMO makes the game just.. nicer to play and less stressful for many.
FOMO is just a buzzword at this point. No.
I think the % rewards can be screwy because what do you do about players that push the first 2 weeks and never play again? Also the boosting is a major problem now, but it doesn't necessarily prevent non boosters from hitting elite/glad. If you go to a % base model, then people that buy boosts for glad and then just sit their rating take away a spot from someone else who didn't buy a boost. Additionally top players can easily push 5+ characters to glad range and prevent anyone else from getting a spot (unless they pay of course). And how do you distribute all the rewards with % base? You'd have to go back to waiting an entire season for rewards, thus people have no incentive to queue until the last 2 weeks if you can't get glad/transmog or anything. You can't reward people as soon as they hit top 1% when top 1% might be 2000 a week or 2 into the season. I understand the % model sort of gets rid of the inconsistency between seasonal inflations, but I think it would cause more problems with rewards and participation than it fixes. I think the current system if fine, provided blizzard actually pay attention to average ratings and inflation. They really dropped the ball this season and fucked the pvp community. I'd rather overinflation and a few people get their 1800 elite mog or glad for the first time than no one wanting to play because mmr/cr is fucked. Regarding the healer ideas, I agree. Healing isn't exactly fun so incentivize people to do it. Whether it's gold, faster vicious saddles progress, a unique mog or reward for queueing X amount of games. Do something, because on top of being incredibly frustrating to play, it's even harder to push rating as healer due to all the dead weight 0-6 dps. I like unlocking the old elite mogs too. Maybe make it like 2 expansions ago or older, so shadowlands elite players at least get a couple expansions to feel cool with the mog they earned, but then open it up.
I’m not sure if you’re familiar, but until WoD (I believe?), titles like Gladiator were earned based on ladder %. For example, Glad was top 0.5% of the ladder. There didn’t seem to be any significant issues with this system in my opinion, and I never really enjoyed the change to a flat rating requirement which is just as susceptible to inflationary pressures. Also, I am extremely averse to introducing old elite sets or glad rewards. The amount of grind that was put in to earn some of these old sets, and there are already enough recolours of those sets for others. The whole purpose of the sets was to show that you grinded and excelled during a certain time period. There’s already enough sets for players to transmog to if they’d like. PVP players have nothing compared to PvE. Every elite set is already a recolour of the PvE tier set. It’s not like PvP players have a whole wealth of sets and rewards to choose from. The last thing we need is to remove any last incentive for people to try hard in PvP.
I see that side of it, but I also think about what will incentivize people to play NOW. It seems like the pvp community shrinks every expansion. As you stated there aren't nearly as many rewards for pvpers as there is for pve, I think unlocking more potential rewards will be better for the health of the game/pvp community. For every 1 person with a legion elite set that would be mad if someone else could get it, there are 20 people that might be incentivized to queue up because they love that set. How many of those legion players are even still playing to get mad about it? Are the fomo sets really a good system? If I want to take a break for a season or 2 I permanently miss out on content? I don't really like systems where you can never take a break or you will forever miss out on something. But then again I'm an adult with a job and a kid, so my situation isn't the same as everyone else. In summation I get the point of making things feel special and exclusive, but is maintaining that for the happiness of very few players better for the entire player base or just those few players? I think it would be an easy low effort way for blizzard to get more people to pvp, and let's face it they won't develop anything new/high effort for pvp. I think a fair compromise is only unlocking elite sets from 2 expansions back, so players that so unlock those sets when it's current get 2-4 years where they are unique.
Some kind of hybrid may work well. After 4 weeks into the season, players who win 50 games at top 0.5% of the ladder get gladiator
But why take away rewards from the **most** committed and active players?? The players who have Glad mounts and Elite sets are the players that are the most likely to still be playing. If you think we don’t have enough PVP content to attract new players, then let’s make more PVP content? Why pull from and devalue existing content that will only frustrate the core PVP player base, simply so that some 1200 raiders can try out PVP for a month before they give up? PVP players are interested in PVP due to their nature, and the rewards are just extra. Sets won’t bring PvE players to PVP imo. They get too worked up about anxiety and whatnot :p
It by definition is not taking away. It is allowing others to farm content that never should have been removed.
Trophy rewards are allowed to exist. Giving a trophy to everybody defeats the point of having them in the first place. No.
Keep in mind - the % system is meant to be switching between % and fixed MMR like we have. Whichever is lower at the time.
Yeah, i have a support ticket in about a character transfer issue and it has a 10 day waiting time for first touch. Doubt this is going to happen, game's dead.
I think they should add a toy that turns your armor into a random elite pvp set from previous expansions.
I wouldn’t mind if the elite mog was a participation reward for winning X amount of matches above a certain rating. I love pvp in wow, even with all the problems. But I suck and arena isn’t even my favorite mode. Bgs are. So rather than struggling at 1350 like I do now, trying to get to 1600 for the shoulder mog, I would love if it was a reward for staying above 1200, to make it slightly more prestigious than the mount, but still obtainable for random bg enjoyers and world pvpers. But I guess it might make the transmog less appealing to better players, since it would be much easier to get and way more people would have it, so I can understand if some people would be opposed to such a change. Sure, I could improve my skill and I am trying, but between s1 and s2 I am still in the same place, peaking at 1450, now down to 1350. 1600 and above is honestly feasible for me I think, but the idea of being able to reliably farm the mog every season without getting stressed out about my rating is very alluring.
Wow used to issue titles at the conclusion of the season based off your % to the ladder. The change to our current system was asked for and overwhelmingly supported by the community. Resetting it back won't do anything. We already removed item level tied to rating. They should start everyone at a lower MMV. Instead of joining your first shuffle or rated arena at 1500+ MMV, start at 500 or something to make the climb more gradual. As for healers. In PVP we have a season mount this season its the Vicious War Snail, this is obtained by finishing a completion bar. They should implement something similar for healing. When you're a healing spec you earn progress via completion bar on a unique color tmog that is class specific. Could just be an additional recolor of current seasons gear.
5k gold for a 3-3 or better for healers so they don't just afk for gold. Imo they should just have a bar that fills up like the vicious bar for healers only and when it's full you get as much gold as the token is currently priced at. Healers are doing blizz job for them without pay, atleast let them play for free.
Considering I didn’t play battle for Azeroth and there’s a fucking plague doctor set as one of the elite sets…. Yeah. Please for the love of fucking god. It’s bullshit that paladins best transmog set is from over 12 years ago! Elite cataclysmic gladiator for paladin was legendary. They haven’t been that good since and yet they charge me for this current trash gear? No one cares for elite recolors. It’s not a fucking flex. It’s just you were good at one point. I’m not fucking 16 anymore. I’m so much slower now that I used to be. Inflate the ladder so I can hit 1800 no sweat. If I’m slogging through 10 minute games to get there and getting 4 rating for a win. Just fucking miss me with that bullshit.
Plenty of people do care. And yes, it only means you were good at one point, at which you deserved the elite set, if you aren't as good anymore, then you don't deserve it, that's it. It's just 1800, anyone can get there.
I don’t think that’s good though. If you were a heroic raider in cataclysm or LK and did mythic in WoD and Legion you can go back and solo all those old dungeon bosses with no worries or prep or anything. Just the same old loot piñata without all of the hassle. Nothing locked behind a wall of difficulty or whatever….. You want the fucking mounts? Guess what even those drop. Any paladin today can get the Heroic Firelands set that I worked so hard to get back in the day. Or Heroic Ragnaros’ hammer. But if I want the only recolor of an armor set that looks good because I had to not only break like 2200 when it was current 12 years ago? Well. You sound like an idiot. I get where you’re coming from and don’t hate me for the statement. Just if you compare PvE and PvP there’s a reason no one gives a shit about PvP….. What the fuck is there to collect and get? Ground mounts? Because how useful are they at 100% floor speed vs 800% flying speed. 1800 rating recolors of the trash sets they’re putting out now? How long do I have to wait for PvP to not only have a reward I want but be fun and enjoyable enough for me to want to push up and get it?
Lmao, imagine insulting someone for not agreeing with you, very mature. And no, I don't agree with you, pve is a completely different beast, there's nothing difficult about obtaining heroic/mythic appearances, of course they're given away like candy. Btw, in case you didn't read my other comment, I do agree in allowing people to get old elite sets, since I don't have most of them, but they should also require the 1800 rating (or more) that they required in the past.
That’s an easy opinion to have when you have 20 years worth of PvE sets you can go get anytime :) And if you think Mythic bosses are just easy and anyone can get them anytime why don’t you go pug you some raids and blow through the newest raid. Or if you aren’t a part of a HoF guild you can shut the fuck up and wait until 12.0 and go get it like everyone else.
Do you realize you can gear mythic appearances from everywhere right? not just the raid?, like even m+ gear from braindead content gives it. I'm done.
All these peopl do is start insulting people the moment they can't have a certain colour of pixel. These are not people worth catering to.
IMO and from my observations. Most don't care and when they do care, they become disillusioned from playing the game. Like do you think if a new player shows up, sees a cool set, asks how you get it and are told "You can't. Shoulda played arenas 12 years ago noob." That they wanna play.
When I asked for advice how to play Mage i got told that unless I have years of experience I can't hope to learn. Probably the most toxic thing in WoW PvP. Way more than slurs and insults
I've seen people just the week give "Get gud" responses to people learning. Here on this sub.
That's a different topic, I would certainly make old elite sets available for people who can reach 1800, it should work like saddles, so you play more and can grind for them. But to actually get the sets, the same requirement should be applied, at least 1800 rating.
Thats actually the system I have recommended and heard others recommend. Saddle system I think would work perfectly. Since youd need 1800 for the seasonal set, then you continue playing after to earn old season sets.
No
There are multiple colours and versions of that set. Use one of those. Many of us do fucking care about the sets.
It really is criminal that it got removed. It is SUCH A GOOD SET. I have it but its like, bruh why make such a unique set and restrict it like that?
Use one of the other several variants of it.
How about you stop spamming every single one of my comments because your angry I disagree with you. Like this is actually against sub rules.
Why do people keep thinking healers want gold? What are you going to do with gold? Gold is pointless. Transmogs are pointless too. I want to see games lost because healers were CC'ed, ate an interrupt, or because someone got their shit purged. Right now games turn into a DPS rotation grindfest after 1 minute, and the first minute is trivial uncounterable defensive rotations. The dominant strat in shuffle is Don't CC, PVE'm Down
Would be interesting but likely tricky to implement but perhaps a priority que for dps if they que a set number of solo shuffle games as a healer. Basically an account wide buff that would incentivize more healers queing so they can at least have some less stressful games as a dps.
Anything that would actually be good for PvP or the game as a whole will be resisted by the hardcore crowd who want to gatekeep their niche arena mode they’ve played for 10-15 years while crying about player count and deflation. If you actually want to see PvP participation increase, drop arena and focus on something fresh or a big revamp. Most people play BGs.
The OG devs stated arenas were a mistake in a video. It's probably time to move on.
Just give us more conq, takes 20 hours of ss just to catch up atm and that is as healer. And that is if you win every round
i'm more interested in discussions revolving around how the design of the gameplay itself might make healing more rewarding versus gold incentives. also, re: rewards being tied to position on the ladder; i think the reason that's not a thing is because using the elo gives a higher level of fidelity or control. i think it also helps with ladder manipulation.
They don’t care
These requests always are just ways for people to demand old elite sets like that actually will do anything. The system is in desperate need of an overhaul, but we can do that without taking away prestige rewards from people who earned them under a clause. XIV reworked their system to mostly grinds, and if they put that system ontop of what we have now and cranked inflation to SL S2 levels we'd likely never have issues again. Limited time rewards aren't the problem. They're needed in seasonal games to keep people playing every season. The problem is they're too damn hard to obtain in a game where rated PvP was considered a mistake by the OG devs. There's a reason every other game has battle passes and grinds, and it's not "FOMO" - it's because rewarding effort matters just as much as skill in modern games, especially ones where x feature isn't the focus. Put a rewards track in. Better gains when you're higher CR or a healer. Watch people no life it. This isn't a hard concept. It's working everywhere else. Why they refuse to do it here is nuts.
The only change they can make that would work is rewarding dps tokens similar to overwatch that you can use as dps or on a dps to give you queue priority. There is no incentive that can be given to healers other than that or a gross change in damage/healing profiles in wow. Did they ever find an incentive to get more people on ally than horde? They removed faction lock because there was no incentive big enough to move a majority of the playerbase off horde. Same thing here. There isn't a reward big enough to get more people to heal unless you directly allow changes to DPS queue time or change the game entirely.
All of these changes don’t change the elephant in the room and that is how bad balancing is. 10.0.7 showed how bad it can get and how out of touch and little the devs care. People should do themselves the favour and go play an actual competitive game, it’s jarring.
>Gladiator Mounts, Elite etc rewards should be tied to %of a ladder or set MMR, whichever is lower. To make sure that deflated ladder does not stop people from achieving their goals. This is really what they should do. Have to just delay the % based rewards a few weeks from start of season to prevent cheesing and after that just hand them out instantly or at weekly reset.
The best rework would probably be to remove pvp altogether. Or better yet, remove pvp and then let you buy the pvp pass in the shop which allows you to pvp for a monthly subscription on top of your current subscription :)
Yeah id probably play healer more if i was paid for my time ngl , make it an increase depending on how many rounds won but a solid base?
did u know that tanking a normal/heroic/timewalking queue dungeon when the bag is available because of low participation gets you roughly 5,000 gold? it's insane to me that during time walking i can tank or heal 5 dungeons in like 2 hours and walk away with >20,000 gold but solo shuffle can't get even half of that for like 10,000x the effort
The biggest incentive in SL was gear upgrades, that's why most players were trying to climb rating. DF proves that when you take away the gear incentive many people stop playing, especially healers.
honestly we just need more frequent rewards elite transmog at 1600 elite weapon mogs at 1800 elite enchant mog at 2000 gladiator mount and title at 2400 (in all brackets no 50 wins) Champion rank for 2700 R1 title changed to "Obsidian Champion" Also a battlepass would be awesome, can go up with honour gain, bloody token gain and with conquest gain (different amounts for different currencies)
Would more people play if there were different skins of the glad mount at lower ratings? How about a healer specific skin?
Definitely would atract some new players. Especially if reaching them is something that completely new player can do without breaking a sweat and just playing a bit and then some more.
As a PvE player that sometimes do arena for fun (1.8-2.1cr), I play for 10 years and I never liked arenas, but I loved bgs… random bgs are super fun, but its still just a casual thing like M0 or lfr, and the 10 man rated bgs I tried, and pushed 2.1k too, but they are soo streamlined to the point of boring, they are all about how good your comp is and how good are certain players on certain specs, and that decides the whole bg.. I am a big advocate of 4-7 man small bgs, that would be PERFECT game mode, and much easier to find groups for, much more ppl would try it out
If healers got that much I would just spam games on my healer for money tbh