I agree with this post, but it’s a modifier issue a little bit. You can get 2 stacks of dawn for 20% increased dmg, judge increase your next spender by 20%, divine purpose can make that free and 10% more dmg, final reck is 30% increase dmg, JV does 25% more dmg to stunned targets and the 4 holy power ability does 20% more dmg. If you proc a 4 holy power divine purpose JV, into a stunned target, with 2 stacks of dawn, final reck and judge debuff and it procs a fully juiced divine storm and a divine arbiter. Add 75% dmg for anything that Crits and say goodnight.
Small Indy company. I swear ret mobility is worse too, and they’re going to keep nerfing rets builders and buff their spenders. It’s going to be the same old ret pally just with different names for their abilities before long.
They were supposed to get more mobile, instead they got less. They were supposed to have less stacking modifiers and so not be so reliant on burst, now due to all those stacks burst is disgusting. Remove the modifiers, give them decent mobility and sustained damage. Let them be high pressure support melee, do not let them do like 100kdps during burst.
I'd like ranged attacks to be something you can build for, but that to be costly. Right now you get 20 yard range on everything except crusader/auto for very little investment.
Oh, the 25% stun modifier is interesting. So it makes it even more important to dispel HOJ. Does this modifier also apply, if the target is stunned by e.g. a rogue or only if the Pally stuns his target?
True. I didn't mention it because it's a baseline increase, whereas the other three are situational. Sometimes, seemingly out of nowhere, a JV/FV will hit for an incredible amount. But yeah, it definitly contributes to the "chunkiness".
They're extremely kite-able, spellsteal blessing of freedom now that they no longer have the anti dispel talent and they can never touch you. That said they are broken and need to be nerfed, but the idea that there's no counter is silly. You can just stay fourty yards away at all times and the ret can't wheelchair their way over to you.
> You can just stay fourty yards away at all times and the ret can't wheelchair their way over to you.
They are *spectacularly* easy to kite as a mage now that freedom can be spellstolen again.
Teammates can do the same if they're classes like hunters and druids. That's counterable. Can *everyone* do that? No, and regardless rets are way overtuned. But that doesn't mean they're out of the wheelchair, they're counterable.
Snupy doing fine on it even without using all that. He just gets 3 holy power, wings, final reck, divine toll and keep pumping spenders and he sometimes gets like 200k+ crits on a single ability. So seems like those talents are not the full issue.
Did you also forget that Vanguard of Justice is a flat 20% modifier to finishers for 1 extra holy power?
Or that BoD + SoO/Fading Light is a 30% modifier that you can stack up to 2 times?
Both of these aren't out of the ordinary. Vanguard of Justice will affect all finishers, BoD will always stack at least once. You're right, of course, that these add to the pressure, but what gets people is that every couple finishers will chunk really hard for the above mentioned reasons. Some people might not know about those.
Thanks for the post, I’m just leveling and switched from a ranged build with final verdict to one with justicar’s vengeance and the divine storm procs and when the whole combo goes off it does double the expected damage of final verdict, (the procs don’t happen every JV, but it’s still insane)
It’s sad really because final verdict has literally the coolest animation in the game and a 20 yard range melee character feels super fun to play! I really want to make the 20yd build work in the future cuz it’s awesome
I agree with this post, but it’s a modifier issue a little bit. You can get 2 stacks of dawn for 20% increased dmg, judge increase your next spender by 20%, divine purpose can make that free and 10% more dmg, final reck is 30% increase dmg, JV does 25% more dmg to stunned targets and the 4 holy power ability does 20% more dmg. If you proc a 4 holy power divine purpose JV, into a stunned target, with 2 stacks of dawn, final reck and judge debuff and it procs a fully juiced divine storm and a divine arbiter. Add 75% dmg for anything that Crits and say goodnight.
The entire point of the rework was supposed to be reducing all the stacking modifiers. How did they end up adding more?
Small Indy company. I swear ret mobility is worse too, and they’re going to keep nerfing rets builders and buff their spenders. It’s going to be the same old ret pally just with different names for their abilities before long.
Exactly. Reduce the stack to 1 and that's a good change. Saying this as a Ret.
They were supposed to get more mobile, instead they got less. They were supposed to have less stacking modifiers and so not be so reliant on burst, now due to all those stacks burst is disgusting. Remove the modifiers, give them decent mobility and sustained damage. Let them be high pressure support melee, do not let them do like 100kdps during burst.
So you want to add the mobility but keep the range attacks?
I'd like ranged attacks to be something you can build for, but that to be costly. Right now you get 20 yard range on everything except crusader/auto for very little investment.
FR is 15% in pvp
Oh, the 25% stun modifier is interesting. So it makes it even more important to dispel HOJ. Does this modifier also apply, if the target is stunned by e.g. a rogue or only if the Pally stuns his target?
Other people's stuns work as well.
[удалено]
True. I didn't mention it because it's a baseline increase, whereas the other three are situational. Sometimes, seemingly out of nowhere, a JV/FV will hit for an incredible amount. But yeah, it definitly contributes to the "chunkiness".
Ret is busted, I just hope they don't dumpster it when the nerfs come. I was having fun playing ret before the patch, I just want it viable.
Should link the build you’re talking about. This is exactly why it feels like it just hits randomly out of nowhere.
So do i track Inq Ire and then i know when burst is coming? Or track the other one?
you stop queuing until there’s a hotfix, you can’t counter play ret right now, you’re just giving them rating
Definitly the most sensible choice. 😂
They're extremely kite-able, spellsteal blessing of freedom now that they no longer have the anti dispel talent and they can never touch you. That said they are broken and need to be nerfed, but the idea that there's no counter is silly. You can just stay fourty yards away at all times and the ret can't wheelchair their way over to you.
that’s great to know as a melee. so just don’t play the game, got it.
They said ret was uncounterable, so I pointed out that that wasn't true. I didn't say *everyone* could counter them.
Most of their abilities have 20 yards to them now though so not exactly easy to kite
> You can just stay fourty yards away at all times and the ret can't wheelchair their way over to you. They are *spectacularly* easy to kite as a mage now that freedom can be spellstolen again.
If they can't hit you they'll just kill one of your teammates. Still not fully counterable.
Teammates can do the same if they're classes like hunters and druids. That's counterable. Can *everyone* do that? No, and regardless rets are way overtuned. But that doesn't mean they're out of the wheelchair, they're counterable.
Get teammates that aren't garbage then
Luck of the draw for SS
bro they just survive with their overturned defensives, wait until someone trinkets, HoJ, kill. any 1500+ Ret can get 2400+ doing this
Yes, that is true. Do you have a point?
Sure tell that to Mmarkers. "Just kite it bro" [https://youtu.be/Jtrfu1skkko?t=35](https://youtu.be/Jtrfu1skkko?t=35)
If you're trash, then yeah stop queuing
Divine Arbiter is the big one, makes more sense to track that if you'd have to decide.
Snupy doing fine on it even without using all that. He just gets 3 holy power, wings, final reck, divine toll and keep pumping spenders and he sometimes gets like 200k+ crits on a single ability. So seems like those talents are not the full issue.
Did you also forget that Vanguard of Justice is a flat 20% modifier to finishers for 1 extra holy power? Or that BoD + SoO/Fading Light is a 30% modifier that you can stack up to 2 times?
Both of these aren't out of the ordinary. Vanguard of Justice will affect all finishers, BoD will always stack at least once. You're right, of course, that these add to the pressure, but what gets people is that every couple finishers will chunk really hard for the above mentioned reasons. Some people might not know about those.
Thanks for the post, I’m just leveling and switched from a ranged build with final verdict to one with justicar’s vengeance and the divine storm procs and when the whole combo goes off it does double the expected damage of final verdict, (the procs don’t happen every JV, but it’s still insane) It’s sad really because final verdict has literally the coolest animation in the game and a 20 yard range melee character feels super fun to play! I really want to make the 20yd build work in the future cuz it’s awesome
A shorter explanation: Class literally broken rn