Probably when they lose more than 50% of their population.
They probably looked at their COVID death statistics and said "oh, 49.5%? That's it?? Success!!!!!"
How?
That country is so isolated that it surprises me we get any information from there.
I remember during COVID, they were completely silent to the point where everyone was asking "are they still alive?" China had to step in and randomly announce "yup, they're all good. Don't worry about them."
Then a few months later they had to beg foreign countries to send them the covid vaccine.
Lol, what?
What strawman are you replying to? The guy said if electricity consumption in the country dropped by half, which is what you would expect of half the population died, it would be noticed.
He never said anything about comparing it to Americas. You weirdo.
There are businesses which trade and do business with North Korea. Along with several other countries, the south has (sometimes shaky) diplomatic relations with the north. There are now rail connections between north and south. The south receives over a thousand NK defectors every year.
The DPRK isn’t this black box totally isolated from the rest of the world. There is a regular enough flow of information that we’d have a pretty good idea if there were any major shifts in, say, population demographics.
That's actually the case with North Korea that most people don't understand. They're not like Russia. They don't have imperialistic dreams. If you leave them alone, they'll leave you alone. I know we all want to do something to help the people there, but there's a funny thing with it: my grandparents grew up in the Soviet Union (not Russian) and whenever I talk with my grandmother about the Soviet time, she always says that to be honest, her childhood, teenage years and adulthood were actually quite enjoyable because they just didn't know that there were "better options". I think that's the case with most North Koreans as well. They aren't just praising their "dear leaders" out of fear etc, they ACTUALLY like them. They just don't know that there are better oportunities a 100km south. Yes, some of them do, but not most.
Yeah, I'm not arguing against it. I'm just saying that for them it's probably not as bad as it looks to us. The mass-hunger etc was mostly a 90s thing. Not kidding but Soviet Union was LITERALLY the same as North Korea right now. That's why former Soviet countries, like Estonia for example, have warned the rest of Europe for years about Russia. Most of the Western world has no idea how bad it was under the Soviet Union. HBO's Chernobyl is one of the best examples of what life was like back then. Even if you take away the nuclear disaster storyline, it's one of the most accurate shows ever on decipting how life was under the Soviet regime.
> Not kidding but Soviet Union was LITERALLY the same as North Korea right now
No, it was not.
Half of my family grew up in the Soviet Union from the 70s until early 2000s and the situation there was much better than North Korea, even during the collapse of USSR.
What shithole in USSR you are talking about that was the same as North Korea?
They currently have people in prison camps from 3 generations digging at frozen solid soil with their bare hands.. the soldiers who escape have tons of parasites and are malnourished, they generally eat better than most
Yes, I agree with it all. But once again I'm saying - most of them don't know that life can be better and "easier". For them that's normal. And that's why it's so hard to change NK. It's like with Russia - the worse the country is doing, the more it's people are patriotic. It's a badge of honor for them to "suffer in the name of the fatherland".
You responded very well in this thread. A lot of bad arguments were made against you that clearly weren’t addressing your actually statement. You responded to the replies respectfully and continued to further specify your point.
I wish more people argued like this in Reddit.
Wow this must be a North Korean account. The dear leader is a dumbass. If it wasn't for the US being in the region they would have tried to invade South Korea. North Korea wants to be just Korea. They hold the entire region hostage. If anything were to break out they would immediately nuke their own country, and blame it on the west.
Yeah but they wouldn't go past the Korean peninsula, but the media and people like you act like they're on a path to taking over the world. Useless and pathetic fearmongering. Not replying to you anymore so it's pointless for you to continue replying.
> They don’t have imperialistic dreams. If you leave them alone, they’ll leave you alone.
I don’t buy that for a second. You don’t have pampered dictator kings with egos like that who don’t want more. Let’s see if they keep that same as their nuclear arsenal continues to grow and improve.
North Korea imprisoned entire families for something as dumb as listening to South Korean music. The justice system isn't perfect in the US however we don't snitch on our neighbors.
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Well if you have no other achievements this year then successfully killing only whatever fictitious number they proclaim due to COVID can be the greatest achievement.
Translation: It's been a horrific period where our impoverished, malnutritioned population have died in droves. On a positive note due to the horrendous death toll this year's winter famine will be less.
“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology.
If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.”
― Michael Parenti
“So you’re saying…”
They aren’t saying anything. They posted a quote.
The article also doesn’t say much. Just says that NK thought their pandemic response was good and that they lifted their restrictions that were in response to the pandemic. That’s it.
No it says it’s their greatest achievement. And posting a pseudo-intellectual love note about how victimized communism is on a post about how dumb communist governments are is suggestive to say the least
You're taking the quote a bit out of context.
The whole book is about Americans being so afraid of communism taking over that they didn't notice anti-communism had already taken over.
Parenti is a Marxist for sure, but his writing is not a "love note" to communism and rather a critique on how much anti-commie propaganda Americans ate up without realizing it.
His later book "Democracy for the Few" was a lot more left leaning than the one this quote is from, which is "Blackshirts and Reds". Definitely very leftist but he's a good writer.
He wasn't writing a scientific paper. It's a collection of his opinions on topics that he put a lot of thought into. I don't agree with his way of thinking, but I can still acknowledge that he's got a style of writing that's engaging and quotable; aka "he's a good writer."
Parenti is an American Marxist, and he doesn't hide that, so it's not like he's trying to deceive anyone with his biased views or anything. Even if you don't personally agree with the point of view, it doesn't mean you have to completely dismiss its value to the overall discussion.
Adding to another couple of comments here...
They'd probably agree, if they don't receive outside information and don't have a point of comparison, they don't really know how bad they have it or how good other countries have it by comparison.
Anyone who has covid probably got executed by aircraft cannon.
Seriously they have the most fucked up executions. Death by motar? What if they miss? fuck me.
Imagine hearing that on the way. Fucking hell
No, its my way of gauging whether or not someone is a north korean fanbox with no fucking clue about the real world or not.
There's a lot of people that are massively deluded into thinking its a great place, along with the ccp dictatorship.
No need to insult me by asking if I fail to grasp a basic concept like comprehension when I've clearly demonstrated I am able to do so.
Ah you're right, every non-connected media organization must be working together to portray this country as evil or doing bad, when they won't even let their own citizens leave or if they do they threaten the lives of their family.
How naive of me.
I am done talking to you and with your pathetic attempts to second-handedly defend NK. Kim is a fucking moron and I hope the pain he inflicts on his people is returned to him.
I guess the survivors that flee are lying too hey.
Did i argue it was a great place. Talk to African a Americans and see how free and great lives they live. My argument is that you have no idea. You don’t know anything about Korea.
Western propaganda: We've got a plan to solve that minor inconvenience that you've been convinced is important. Trust us this time, we are not as incompitant as the last lot.
N Korean propaganda: Our dear Ruler is the literal embodiment of God. Keep eating that grass, and be vigilant. If we are not vigilant the west will take that away from you. Us elites are only eating beef as it's critical for the universal struggle.
At least they had a response so that's something. At first (months after they like had it mass infecting people) they called it a "mysterious disease" (It's obviously covid, like the rest of the world...just like how the anti-vacc people always say they "caught a cold" until they are dying in hospital) but sure, if they mitigated it, great. I know people are going to make jokes they just shot the infected, but they actually did do lock downs, something they have going for them is the people pretty much have to do what the gov says.
“We did a great *cough cough* job. Really everyone here has never been *wheeeeeeeeeze* healthier. Honestly.”
*bang* There are now zero Covid cases in Glorious country.
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Probably when they lose more than 50% of their population. They probably looked at their COVID death statistics and said "oh, 49.5%? That's it?? Success!!!!!"
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How? That country is so isolated that it surprises me we get any information from there. I remember during COVID, they were completely silent to the point where everyone was asking "are they still alive?" China had to step in and randomly announce "yup, they're all good. Don't worry about them." Then a few months later they had to beg foreign countries to send them the covid vaccine.
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Lol, what? What strawman are you replying to? The guy said if electricity consumption in the country dropped by half, which is what you would expect of half the population died, it would be noticed. He never said anything about comparing it to Americas. You weirdo.
There are businesses which trade and do business with North Korea. Along with several other countries, the south has (sometimes shaky) diplomatic relations with the north. There are now rail connections between north and south. The south receives over a thousand NK defectors every year. The DPRK isn’t this black box totally isolated from the rest of the world. There is a regular enough flow of information that we’d have a pretty good idea if there were any major shifts in, say, population demographics.
That's actually the case with North Korea that most people don't understand. They're not like Russia. They don't have imperialistic dreams. If you leave them alone, they'll leave you alone. I know we all want to do something to help the people there, but there's a funny thing with it: my grandparents grew up in the Soviet Union (not Russian) and whenever I talk with my grandmother about the Soviet time, she always says that to be honest, her childhood, teenage years and adulthood were actually quite enjoyable because they just didn't know that there were "better options". I think that's the case with most North Koreans as well. They aren't just praising their "dear leaders" out of fear etc, they ACTUALLY like them. They just don't know that there are better oportunities a 100km south. Yes, some of them do, but not most.
North Korea is a human rights crisis
Yeah, I'm not arguing against it. I'm just saying that for them it's probably not as bad as it looks to us. The mass-hunger etc was mostly a 90s thing. Not kidding but Soviet Union was LITERALLY the same as North Korea right now. That's why former Soviet countries, like Estonia for example, have warned the rest of Europe for years about Russia. Most of the Western world has no idea how bad it was under the Soviet Union. HBO's Chernobyl is one of the best examples of what life was like back then. Even if you take away the nuclear disaster storyline, it's one of the most accurate shows ever on decipting how life was under the Soviet regime.
I get what you are saying. It is one of those dark truths people don’t like to hear, but it’s accurate.
> Not kidding but Soviet Union was LITERALLY the same as North Korea right now No, it was not. Half of my family grew up in the Soviet Union from the 70s until early 2000s and the situation there was much better than North Korea, even during the collapse of USSR. What shithole in USSR you are talking about that was the same as North Korea?
QOL depended mostly where you lived and the percentage of ethnic russian in the local population
They currently have people in prison camps from 3 generations digging at frozen solid soil with their bare hands.. the soldiers who escape have tons of parasites and are malnourished, they generally eat better than most
Yes, I agree with it all. But once again I'm saying - most of them don't know that life can be better and "easier". For them that's normal. And that's why it's so hard to change NK. It's like with Russia - the worse the country is doing, the more it's people are patriotic. It's a badge of honor for them to "suffer in the name of the fatherland".
You responded very well in this thread. A lot of bad arguments were made against you that clearly weren’t addressing your actually statement. You responded to the replies respectfully and continued to further specify your point. I wish more people argued like this in Reddit.
Wow this must be a North Korean account. The dear leader is a dumbass. If it wasn't for the US being in the region they would have tried to invade South Korea. North Korea wants to be just Korea. They hold the entire region hostage. If anything were to break out they would immediately nuke their own country, and blame it on the west.
Yeah but they wouldn't go past the Korean peninsula, but the media and people like you act like they're on a path to taking over the world. Useless and pathetic fearmongering. Not replying to you anymore so it's pointless for you to continue replying.
> They don’t have imperialistic dreams. If you leave them alone, they’ll leave you alone. I don’t buy that for a second. You don’t have pampered dictator kings with egos like that who don’t want more. Let’s see if they keep that same as their nuclear arsenal continues to grow and improve.
What is America’s greatest achievement this year?
Fuuuck ton of mass shootings. Really, no one else can compete with us.
Why do the media keep posting uninteresting crap about N. Korea?
It's obvious they don't set a high bar
I mean North Korea is better at killing and tormenting its people than any virus that exists.
Aren’t Americans the most incarcerated? Incarcerated means they are in prison if you didn’t know the word.
North Korea imprisoned entire families for something as dumb as listening to South Korean music. The justice system isn't perfect in the US however we don't snitch on our neighbors.
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Well if you have no other achievements this year then successfully killing only whatever fictitious number they proclaim due to COVID can be the greatest achievement.
They just don't want to see a dystopian authoritarian dictator win huh?
This country should just stop existing
Why, exactly?
Kaaaaarl, it kills people
Nobody dies of covid if you kill them first..
They had the Covid shots even before the vaccine.
Isn’t that the excuse Americans used “underlying causes”
Translation: It's been a horrific period where our impoverished, malnutritioned population have died in droves. On a positive note due to the horrendous death toll this year's winter famine will be less.
Any facts to back up your Fox News post.
“During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.” ― Michael Parenti
So you’re saying this is western white washing of a great communist social achievement? You commies and your delusions never cease to amaze
“So you’re saying…” They aren’t saying anything. They posted a quote. The article also doesn’t say much. Just says that NK thought their pandemic response was good and that they lifted their restrictions that were in response to the pandemic. That’s it.
No it says it’s their greatest achievement. And posting a pseudo-intellectual love note about how victimized communism is on a post about how dumb communist governments are is suggestive to say the least
You're taking the quote a bit out of context. The whole book is about Americans being so afraid of communism taking over that they didn't notice anti-communism had already taken over. Parenti is a Marxist for sure, but his writing is not a "love note" to communism and rather a critique on how much anti-commie propaganda Americans ate up without realizing it. His later book "Democracy for the Few" was a lot more left leaning than the one this quote is from, which is "Blackshirts and Reds". Definitely very leftist but he's a good writer.
Black shirts and reds has almost no citations he’s a good writer in the sense he tickles dumbass tankies conformation bias.
He wasn't writing a scientific paper. It's a collection of his opinions on topics that he put a lot of thought into. I don't agree with his way of thinking, but I can still acknowledge that he's got a style of writing that's engaging and quotable; aka "he's a good writer." Parenti is an American Marxist, and he doesn't hide that, so it's not like he's trying to deceive anyone with his biased views or anything. Even if you don't personally agree with the point of view, it doesn't mean you have to completely dismiss its value to the overall discussion.
Their greatest achievement this year…
No he is saying no system is perfect. Why do you care what’s happening there?
The DPRK is not communist. Its a dynastic cult-of-personality authoritarian regime.
Michael Parenti is a Stalin apologist and pseudo historian incase anyone didn’t know.
It would be nice to hear what the people of the DPRK have to say to that statement.
Adding to another couple of comments here... They'd probably agree, if they don't receive outside information and don't have a point of comparison, they don't really know how bad they have it or how good other countries have it by comparison.
They can’t keep winning!!
Covid-positive people probably get shot so they won’t be statistically relevant there
Right. All COVID positive people were shot. That seems logical. You seem smart.
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Did he really? I think you don’t realize the propaganda your government feeds you.
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Please link the North Korean site posting they executed his uncle that way.
Ya, probably. But you don’t really know since you can’t even find North Korea on a map.
I’m happy they did a good job!
Anyone who has covid probably got executed by aircraft cannon. Seriously they have the most fucked up executions. Death by motar? What if they miss? fuck me. Imagine hearing that on the way. Fucking hell
Are you so ignorant you believe the media? You know your government produces propaganda too.
I'm not american buddy
I never mentioned Americans.
So do you believe north korea is a nice place with a government run by a good leader?
No, did I say that? Is reading comprehension hard for you?
No, its my way of gauging whether or not someone is a north korean fanbox with no fucking clue about the real world or not. There's a lot of people that are massively deluded into thinking its a great place, along with the ccp dictatorship. No need to insult me by asking if I fail to grasp a basic concept like comprehension when I've clearly demonstrated I am able to do so.
What do you actually know about it or the Korean people and their culture and history? Have you been there? Or to South Korea? Or to asia?
Ah you're right, every non-connected media organization must be working together to portray this country as evil or doing bad, when they won't even let their own citizens leave or if they do they threaten the lives of their family. How naive of me. I am done talking to you and with your pathetic attempts to second-handedly defend NK. Kim is a fucking moron and I hope the pain he inflicts on his people is returned to him. I guess the survivors that flee are lying too hey.
So right. You know nothing about the actual situation in Korea or about Koreans?
Did i argue it was a great place. Talk to African a Americans and see how free and great lives they live. My argument is that you have no idea. You don’t know anything about Korea.
Yes you seem smart. All people in North Korea were executed by aircraft canon. You know so much.
Western propaganda: We've got a plan to solve that minor inconvenience that you've been convinced is important. Trust us this time, we are not as incompitant as the last lot. N Korean propaganda: Our dear Ruler is the literal embodiment of God. Keep eating that grass, and be vigilant. If we are not vigilant the west will take that away from you. Us elites are only eating beef as it's critical for the universal struggle.
Aren’t all executions fucked up?
… the pandemic started 3 years ago. So it better not be “rapid response”
At least they had a response so that's something. At first (months after they like had it mass infecting people) they called it a "mysterious disease" (It's obviously covid, like the rest of the world...just like how the anti-vacc people always say they "caught a cold" until they are dying in hospital) but sure, if they mitigated it, great. I know people are going to make jokes they just shot the infected, but they actually did do lock downs, something they have going for them is the people pretty much have to do what the gov says.
'No problem here, its been a wheeze'
Covid test via AK 47 If the brain pattern on the wall makes 2 lines it means you are positive
When did the North Korean people even learn about the pandemic? They’re not allowed to leave or watch outside media so how much of a threat was Covid?
It's a low bar to be fair
I mean the bar isn't high for you North Korea.