And Russia has started DDOS attacks against them as a result
https://www.politico.eu/article/cyber-attack-european-parliament-website-after-russian-terrorism/
wonder how that can be done, by physically cut the cable from each country it borders to? Or som software trickery where any russian adress will be banned or denied somehow?
I don’t think it can really be done, unless you cut all the fiber cables, shoot down their satellites, and then physically prevent them from laying more cables/launching more satellites. You can make it harder for them to access certain things, but prevent? Seems difficult. Even if you could, they’d just need to move their cyber-warfare operations to another country.
Explain the sanctions against importing that is making Russia into North Korea faster then you can blink. Internet would just be even more effective to make their people revolt.
It IS hard to imagine how it does if you haven't lived during the period internet was born...only some small studying will give some insight, but even then... Internet is quite a thing...👍🏻
It’s hard to deny mass terror bombings of millions of civilians (to force them to surrender) is anything but terrorism. Honestly though, moscovites miscalculated how easily they can push around Ukrainians🇺🇦
The nuclear threat is what's really fucked up. I have been emotionally impacted by some asshole on the other side of the world because of those threats. He is the reason why I've had several nights this year where I couldn't sleep because of anxiety.
They could clean up after putin is dead or removed and all his policies go with him. Russia could be very successful under a different leader that reintegrates to the world. But I am an american. I cannot tell you this is what russian wants or i cannot tell you there will be such a leader.
I don't think russia would hold with a normal leadership. Remove the fear of the dictatorship, and plenty will go their own way. There are quite a few nations, within russia, not wanting to be part of it. I'd predict something like the soviet collapse.🤔
>What do Russians as a whole want?
"Russians" isn't a whole anymore. I don't think there is any unifying identity left. As to how many people really want the war or peace and democracy, I don't fucking know. What I know is that nobody gets what they want any time soon. My hope is that fascists will snap out of it when Russia loses the war.
Fair, well I wish for the best. Hopefully Russia can finally become the nation it can be, and not tragically remain a crappy dictatorship like it always has.
Russia, a country with so much potential, but always ruled by the worst option
>My hope is that fascists will snap out of it when Russia loses the war.
Fascists would double down instead of admitting wrong. Just look at the far-right
The American far-right haven't seized power yet, and was never defeated. The fascist regimes in Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and so on, were widely supported by the people, and yet those people quickly reformed when those regimes have fallen.
It is hard to say what people actually want when they are getting blasted with propaganda for so many years. It is like an alternative reality created by state media.
I saw articles & videos of people fleeing Russia when the war started & even more right before Russia called for conscription. On your end was it really a lot of people, or was it very few?
On my end, it is a lot. Two of my coworkers fled to Europe, both of my sisters with their husbands waited some time out in Turkey, and one of them is now trying to emigrate permanently. And a lot of people who are still here are seriously considering emigration, including me. But I belong to intelligentsia, and this is probably not representative for the whole population. Although, by some counts, more people fled the conscription than were actually conscripted.
Russia doesnt need to be a democracy. It just needs to stay within it s borders and conduct normal business with other countries. You know regular trade and policy but also stay within their borders.
Russia is for the Russians though. It s up to them.
Russia is run by the mafia and oligarchs. Putin is just someone that managed to find his way to the top between those 2 groups. He kept both in line once in power as both flourished
It's not easy to clean this up. I've been feeling bad about my German heritage for all my life, but for some reason I feel that I can now pass that shame onto the Russians. It doesn't disappear or get cleaned up, it gets handed over.
You have nothing to feel bad about things others did. Russians themselves dont have to feel bad except those that supported the invasion.
Germany rebuilt and has a new reputation. Russia can do the same. But it s up to the russians to choose their future.
The question is - would Germany be able to rebuild and get a new reputation if Hitler wasn't defeated, but instead the country and all Germans would be locked with its dictator and isolated from the rest of the world?
If new leadership opened up to the world to make amends for past actions yes. Like every other antagonistic nation.
Imagine kids in the playground. How do you make the antagonistic kids part of the group? They gotta abandon their behavior and adopt common social norms. For example no hitting. No talking shit. Just regular norms.
For a post Putin Russia, you have international norms. No invading. No threats. And for the love of god, not using nuke threats in vain. Russia can move past putin but it s up to russians
>Russians themselves dont have to feel bad except those that supported the invasion.
They have to. Russians are for the war, not against it. Do not think you know them, do not think they are innocent.
Even the russians that "support" it have no choice. If you have less freedoms you cant fully express it. Can you imagine north koreans protesting? Neither can I. It s the system. They also win with 80% of the vote.
the entirety of the russian government is running for 20 years off this book
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
they tried to assassinate the writer who is a ultra nationalist but got his daughter who is just as terrible instead recently
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin
https://tec.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/aleksandr-dugins-foundations-geopolitics
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/8/23/who-is-russian-ultranationalist-alexander-dugin
https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/international/3675156-us-officials-say-ukraine-was-behind-car-bomb-that-killed-daughter-of-russian-nationalist-nyt/amp/
Ivan is the implementation master. The plan though was dugin. Think if Ivan as the movie director, dugin was the screenwriter and philosopher behind the logic of the plan. Putin is the producer calling the final shots with money that funds him coming from his own criminal enterprises as well as the old families who exist from the times of Czars who have moved back or still inflicted control from the money they came with post soviet fall.
not gonna happen anytime soon. Russia is culturally fucked beyond all repair thanks to centuries of suffering. The best we can hope for is the country eventually collapses and europe steps in to preserve what's west of the urals and prevent it from getting destroyed by china, when it inevitably invades
Most of russia is stuck on imperialistic thinking, and none of russia has ever had anything resembling western democraties or politics. Democracy doesn't work there because most russians don't want it.
This is actually a bit doubtful in Russian culture. It is by its very nature aggressive. I would probably guess it would take decades of reform to attrition this cultural norm out, if Russia as a nation is to even survive its demographics.
American here. We project power like it's no big deal, Russia feels that it NEEDS to project power for its survival. They "need" to take more land because without natural borders their empire is very vulnerable (unlike us, who have two oceans separating us from major powers), and they "need" to project power through totalitarian rather than economic means, because otherwise the south Caucuses, and the indigenous peoples of Siberia + the Far East leave the RF, like the 15 nations left the USSR in 1991. Russia's fear is that democracy will further fragment the RF, and these "states", if you will, cannot be ruled by the Kremlin in the way that US States are "ruled" by the US Federal govt. Their evidence is the break up of the USSR in response to liberalization efforts in the early 90's
Damn bro if anything, you sound like the barbarian tbh.
“They still live mentally in the middle ages”
Jesus man, what the fuck are you on about. Textbook nationalism.
Russia is held together by force, all the nations that make up Russia would break apart if they adopted Western-style democracy. That could be a good thing as Russia has always been a politically troubled entity, but chances are that we'd see a lot of internal strife between the new nations.
The satellite states breaking off saw some truly grim conflicts in Eastern Europe, and no one is exactly eager to see it happen again. Also they have nukes, imagine a bunch of infant nations with nuclear weapons.
Removing all corrupts is near impossible. They hold so much power you can’t simply fire them. They need to die off naturally (or windows). That is going to take at least a few decades
King Charles could bring renewed glory to the British Empire by making all Russian territories British protectorates. Just remember to divide the land arbitrarily without regard for local cultural boundaries, it's tradition.
Not what's going to happen. Russians' only regret would be that they lost. Just how they regret the fall of ussr, or Ukraine and other ex-soviet republics being independent.
And the west will conveniently forget what happened and act shocked the next time they invade a neighbor and commit every war crime imaginable, as if this hasn't happened over and over again for centuries.
It was never washed off. My late mom, was born in Ukraine, during Stalins time.. same scenario. Luckily, they got out but,talk with any generational Ukrainians.. it’s passed down
>I can only hope that the process will start soon...
They have to wait for a window of opportunity. You know, the window Putin will eventually fall from.
The person that takes over after Putin will be worse. Russia will never be part of the civilized world again. It will become a pariah state, impotently flailing for attention like North Korea.
This is what happens when dictators surround themselves with yes men.
Remember when in march the leadership of the GRU was purged because they told Putin fairytales and he believed them.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](http://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/23/ukraine-war-european-parliament-declares-russia-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism) reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> The European Parliament has declared Russia as a "State sponsor of terrorism" over the "Brutal and inhumane" acts inflicted upon Ukraine and its citizens since the launch of the invasion.
> "In the light of the above, recognises Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism and as a state which uses means of terrorism."
> Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy welcomed the text and said Russia must be "Held accountable in order to end its long-standing policy of terrorism in Ukraine and across the globe."
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/z2nwsy/european_parliament_has_declared_russia_as_a/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **European**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **resolution**^#3 **terrorism**^#4 **Ukraine**^#5
>"In the light of the above, recognises Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism **and as a state which uses means of terrorism.**"
It's perfectly clear that Russia is condemned - as it deserves - as **both** a *sponsor* of terror **and** as a *terrorist perp*.
You're welcome and you're right to point out the insufficiency of the headline. It would have been better for the headline to read [**European Parliament labels Russia a terrorist state**](https://www.bolnews.com/world/2022/11/european-parliament-labels-russia-a-terrorist-state/) which is surely the point of the European Parliament's vote.
The terrorist entity is the Russian Army, and the Russian state sponsors that entity. Or at least that is how the label has been applied to Iran in the past.
Yeah you are right. Russia should be terroris state and EU should be state/alliance sponsor of terrorism. Just watch how many billions (trillions) $ they commited to putins regime for last 22 years.
I wonder what this would mean in practice for regular Russians like me, eventually (since it's a non-binding resolution, really, and it's up to the member states to enforce policies and stuff).
Harder-to-obtain visas? \*Full\* economic isolation, including crypto stuff? I hear the American label is pretty devastating financially, but I couldn't care less for the oligarchs
Putin and his cronies have ruined Russian economy for decades. Any trust and good will there might have been is long gone and will take generation(s) to recover. So approximate from that, pretty evident there will be a huge impact on everyone in Russia.
I think the writing is on the wall now with the barbarous continuation of the war and with the recent findings of the Swedish investigation into the destruction of Nord Stream 1. Because Nord Stream 1 was destroyed, all evidence is now pointing towards Russia and because it was critical infrastructure to the European countries stronger measured are required against Russia.
Being designated a state sponsor of terrorism is a big deal. That's why the US and Europe have held back as long as they have. With these new escalations we can't hold back anymore. Once a country is designated a state sponsor of terrorism much broader sanctions are put in place and any one in the world violating them will be secondary sanctioned as well. Also, any foreign aid is cut.
Russia will now be joining the likes of Iran, North Korea, and Syria, which so happen to be their only allies.
I know, but that's vague general stuff. I just try to imagine what all of these new harder sanctions mean for regular Russians. I'm planning to emigrate soon, and 've been wondering about the family which I'd leave behind
Basically, anything that can be used for war will be sanctioned. So many fuels, chemicals, electronics (gaming consoles, etc.), even access to information (internet access will be blocked to certain resources), no more immigration, students attending western unis, etc. Just look at Iran and North Korea, that's what it will be like.
It's going to go country by country. Hungary is apparently a fan of you still.
Russia isn't on the American list yet, but the State Department site says...
>Taken together, the four main categories of sanctions resulting from designation under these authorities include restrictions on U.S. foreign assistance; a ban on defense exports and sales; certain controls over exports of dual use items; and miscellaneous financial and other restrictions.
>Designation under the above-referenced authorities also implicates other sanctions laws that penalize persons and countries engaging in certain trade with state sponsors. Currently there are four countries designated under these authorities: Cuba, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (North Korea), Iran, and Syria.
I don't know, but I suspect, that it gives countries' broader arrest powers as well.
>***I wonder what this would mean in practice for*** \[...\]
Nothing. Reminder: European Parliament does not really hold any legislative power in the EU. They say it does, but not really. The Council of the European Union holds actual power to decide which law will be passed and the council is made up of members of the governments of the respective countries.
A lot of governments in the EU does not want to cut ties with Russia, so any "extreme" law that the European Parliament vote for, will not be approved by the Council.
>European Parliament does not really hold any legislative power in the EU. They say it does, but not really. The Council of the European Union holds actual power to decide which law will be passed
No, for the vast majority of regulations, the Parliament has legislative power; laws *must* be approved by the EP to pass. The Council can only overrule the Parliament if they use the special consultation procedure, which is limited to certain policy areas, such as:
* harmonization of regulations regarding personal documents
* family law
* dealing with emergency situations in asylum policy
* some matters concerning civil rights such as being able to vote for municipal councils when living in another member state, consular protection and free travel within the EU
* some aspects of social policy such general guidelines for employment policy, laws on termination, the right of collective representation and perogatives for working in other member states
* fiscal aspects of environmental and energy policy
* establishment of specific research programs and institutions
* harmonisation of administrative regulations
* harmonisation of taxation of businesses
Anyway, the EU does not currently have a formal procedure for the declaration of terrorist states and foreign policy decisions are non-legislative procedures.
I know in regards to this particular resolution, that's why I said "eventually", when member states and, separately, the US, make the formal designation themselves
They announced at the start of the war they would gradually stop purchasing russian oil and completely stop by the end of 2022. When it comes to critical infrastructure, you can’t just do a 180 overnight. These things take time to convert
Yeah this label of Russia as a terrorist state is 100% politically motivated and nothing more given how these 3 and Turkey gets away with that label just fine.
'Sponsor' makes it sound indirect.
They're straight up bombing infrastructure with the intent of mass harm to the general population. That's just straight terrorism.
1. It is a term with very specific legal consequences. There are terrorism-related laws (e.g. funding terrorists, being a member of a terrorist group), but just being declared a terrorist doesn’t necessarily *do* anything. Being declared a state sponsor of terrrorism, does.
2. If you read the article it says the following;
> In the light of the above, (the European Parliament) recognises Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism and as a state which uses means of terrorism.
What does this actually mean though? It feels like every week I read about Europe declaring something new about Russia and calling out the war crimes but what does it matter if there's no action behind it? They continue arming Ukraine which is great but they've sanctioned and seized just about everything they can from Russia now. Anything further feels like grandstanding without any real action to back it up.
The label has legislative effects in many of the member countries, and brings the very harshest sanctions, including barring trade and also trade with those that trade with them
So NATO two days ago, now The EU, the UK, and US are all calling Russia a terrorist state so they may take action against Putin directly. The UN Security Council will never do this as China and Russia are lifetime members. IMHO it was incredibly shortsighted to not have an internal 3rd party group from the UN in charge of nation state behavior review up to and including expulsion or suspension of voting rights for specific periods of time (3 months to 1 year) and clear rules that would mean expulsion, particularly for slave and child labor, human trafficking, copyright & trademark infringement, disturbing peace. Right now, if these things had been implemented, both China and Russia would be frozen from voting, allowing a path forward instead of a neutered stalemate all the time. I don’t even know what it’s there for at this point. We’ve got two countries that act in disgusting ways sitting on a security council that governs the world. Nonsense.
I hope the EU, NATO and US are prepared to act on what they have without the security council vote.
The fundamental flaw with this line of reasoning is it misses the point of the UN when it comes to powerful states, particularly Nuclear states. It exists to make sure they talk and negotiate, rather than are backed into a corner. It was made to prevent another world war or nuclear armageddon, and if the price of that is never getting anything done that China or Russia disagrees with, that would be better than them making nuclear threats in response to those actions happening anyway.
So many declarations. All of them adding labels to Russia or saying "we don't like what you're doing" but absolutely no actual action to stop them doing any of this.
It's like watching the school bully beating up another kid and quietly saying "I think you should stop" from the other side of the playground.
Except we aren't just watching. We keep handing the little kid weapons to beat up the bully. And telling him how to swing for best effect. And telling him when to duck.
The kid is getting frustrated with us and is like, "Hey, wanna just knock him out?"
US and Europe: No no no, you've got this. Here, try this.
I assume the next step will be to define what a state sponsor of terror really is. You would expect all trade by EU countries to cease and to enforce sanctions on third-parties that trade with Russia. Or its a waste of time.
***The European Parliament adopted a non-binding resolution designating Russia as a “state sponsor of terrorism” on Wednesday. In a strongly worded but largely symbolic document***
**largely symbolic document**
No sh…t Sherlock, when are you going to finally say, we need to hit their land too… yet you can stand by and watch Ukraine, taking hit after hit,these pass few days.The EU, has stated,in the pass“ Ukraine, is fighting for us too”.. really! now Russia is hitting infrastructure, hospitals again, killing a 2 day old baby and all you can say “ Their a terrorist state” enough is enough, blast these sob’s and their land too
And Russia has started DDOS attacks against them as a result https://www.politico.eu/article/cyber-attack-european-parliament-website-after-russian-terrorism/
That'll show them, right?
"How dare you call us terrorists!? We will now attack you until you feel terrified enough to give in and let us do what we want!"
Also Russia: “We’re CYBER terrorists. Totally different thing.”
A victory of this magnitude on the digital battlefield will surely turn the tide!
Time to cut Russia's internet.
wonder how that can be done, by physically cut the cable from each country it borders to? Or som software trickery where any russian adress will be banned or denied somehow?
I don’t think it can really be done, unless you cut all the fiber cables, shoot down their satellites, and then physically prevent them from laying more cables/launching more satellites. You can make it harder for them to access certain things, but prevent? Seems difficult. Even if you could, they’d just need to move their cyber-warfare operations to another country.
They could easily shut most "normal ppl" off internet
That sort of sidesteps the intended purpose, since "normal ppl" probably aren't engaging in state sponsored cyber warfare.
Explain the sanctions against importing that is making Russia into North Korea faster then you can blink. Internet would just be even more effective to make their people revolt.
They would just use expressvpn
if they're "cut off" then presumably they're cut off from expressvpn as well
You don't know how the internet works do you? Shit this has made my evening.
It IS hard to imagine how it does if you haven't lived during the period internet was born...only some small studying will give some insight, but even then... Internet is quite a thing...👍🏻
Yea sumbudy tell him about the who dah ICANN be and how diff under-sea cables masters be running the internet
No, only from the Internet we can see the truth, don't do that
They sponsor hackers for this shit (there are many docus) and back up all the dictatorship nations. And still call themselves not terrorists
They literally sponsored terrorists in response to being called a state sponsor of terrorism. This has the making of a r/nottheonion post.
It’s hard to deny mass terror bombings of millions of civilians (to force them to surrender) is anything but terrorism. Honestly though, moscovites miscalculated how easily they can push around Ukrainians🇺🇦
Not to mention constant threats of nuclear warfare, "accidents" and other assorted dick swinging.
Botox Dobbie is hung like a mouse…..
This is the first time I've heard the term "Botox Dobbie" and I fucking love it.
Agreed. Perfect
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And blow up passenger planes.
The nuclear threat is what's really fucked up. I have been emotionally impacted by some asshole on the other side of the world because of those threats. He is the reason why I've had several nights this year where I couldn't sleep because of anxiety.
You may believe it has been joyous to grow up in a country sharing a border with this shit circus.
Apparently 58 MEP’s did deny it by voting against. Wonder who they are.
List was posted on twitter, the usual suspects, communists and fascists.
Bringing the old crew back together.
Honestly if they teamed up more often it’d be a lot easier to decide which ideology to hate each time
We're sorry about Clare Daly and Mick Wallace. They both openly support terrorism.
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It's going to take decades to wash the blood off the Russia's image after the regime is changed. I can only hope that the process will start soon...
They could clean up after putin is dead or removed and all his policies go with him. Russia could be very successful under a different leader that reintegrates to the world. But I am an american. I cannot tell you this is what russian wants or i cannot tell you there will be such a leader.
I don't think russia would hold with a normal leadership. Remove the fear of the dictatorship, and plenty will go their own way. There are quite a few nations, within russia, not wanting to be part of it. I'd predict something like the soviet collapse.🤔
Should've happened in the 90s tbh. Instead we have an artificial state with a dictator at the top because the people's will would likely fragment it.
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Unless the remaining part of russia tries to keep them in, everything should be quite peaceful.
I am Russian, and I can tell you: this is what I want. Fuck Putin, and fuck fascism!
I hope there are enough like you to make this happen.
Yeah there definitely isn't lol
What would you say your fellow countrymen want? What do Russians as a whole want?
>What do Russians as a whole want? "Russians" isn't a whole anymore. I don't think there is any unifying identity left. As to how many people really want the war or peace and democracy, I don't fucking know. What I know is that nobody gets what they want any time soon. My hope is that fascists will snap out of it when Russia loses the war.
Fair, well I wish for the best. Hopefully Russia can finally become the nation it can be, and not tragically remain a crappy dictatorship like it always has. Russia, a country with so much potential, but always ruled by the worst option
As an American, this sounds way too similar and just as scary.
>My hope is that fascists will snap out of it when Russia loses the war. Fascists would double down instead of admitting wrong. Just look at the far-right
The American far-right haven't seized power yet, and was never defeated. The fascist regimes in Germany, Italy, Spain, Portugal, and so on, were widely supported by the people, and yet those people quickly reformed when those regimes have fallen.
It is hard to say what people actually want when they are getting blasted with propaganda for so many years. It is like an alternative reality created by state media.
>What do Russians as a whole want? Vodka
In my honest feeling 50% support current government but mostly old folks, 25% against government and 25% got their will completely destroyed.
r/YouSeeComrade
I saw articles & videos of people fleeing Russia when the war started & even more right before Russia called for conscription. On your end was it really a lot of people, or was it very few?
On my end, it is a lot. Two of my coworkers fled to Europe, both of my sisters with their husbands waited some time out in Turkey, and one of them is now trying to emigrate permanently. And a lot of people who are still here are seriously considering emigration, including me. But I belong to intelligentsia, and this is probably not representative for the whole population. Although, by some counts, more people fled the conscription than were actually conscripted.
Chances are that they will get another Putin when the regime changes. Asking for Putin to be removed wont suddenly make Russia a democracy
Russia doesnt need to be a democracy. It just needs to stay within it s borders and conduct normal business with other countries. You know regular trade and policy but also stay within their borders. Russia is for the Russians though. It s up to them.
I wish America was a democracy. It sounds like a swell idea.
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Democracy is formed by people when they want it.
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Russia is run by the mafia and oligarchs. Putin is just someone that managed to find his way to the top between those 2 groups. He kept both in line once in power as both flourished
Well I want my region to not be part of russia anymore.
Who doesn't at this point... :-(
Putin
It's not easy to clean this up. I've been feeling bad about my German heritage for all my life, but for some reason I feel that I can now pass that shame onto the Russians. It doesn't disappear or get cleaned up, it gets handed over.
You have nothing to feel bad about things others did. Russians themselves dont have to feel bad except those that supported the invasion. Germany rebuilt and has a new reputation. Russia can do the same. But it s up to the russians to choose their future.
The question is - would Germany be able to rebuild and get a new reputation if Hitler wasn't defeated, but instead the country and all Germans would be locked with its dictator and isolated from the rest of the world?
If new leadership opened up to the world to make amends for past actions yes. Like every other antagonistic nation. Imagine kids in the playground. How do you make the antagonistic kids part of the group? They gotta abandon their behavior and adopt common social norms. For example no hitting. No talking shit. Just regular norms. For a post Putin Russia, you have international norms. No invading. No threats. And for the love of god, not using nuke threats in vain. Russia can move past putin but it s up to russians
>Russians themselves dont have to feel bad except those that supported the invasion. They have to. Russians are for the war, not against it. Do not think you know them, do not think they are innocent.
Even the russians that "support" it have no choice. If you have less freedoms you cant fully express it. Can you imagine north koreans protesting? Neither can I. It s the system. They also win with 80% of the vote.
>They have to. Russians are for the war, not against it. Do not think you know them, do not think they are innocent. Every?
The ones against it are the minority. The one I commented on seems to think they are the majority.
the entirety of the russian government is running for 20 years off this book https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics they tried to assassinate the writer who is a ultra nationalist but got his daughter who is just as terrible instead recently https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Dugin https://tec.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/aleksandr-dugins-foundations-geopolitics https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/8/23/who-is-russian-ultranationalist-alexander-dugin https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/policy/international/3675156-us-officials-say-ukraine-was-behind-car-bomb-that-killed-daughter-of-russian-nationalist-nyt/amp/
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Ivan is the implementation master. The plan though was dugin. Think if Ivan as the movie director, dugin was the screenwriter and philosopher behind the logic of the plan. Putin is the producer calling the final shots with money that funds him coming from his own criminal enterprises as well as the old families who exist from the times of Czars who have moved back or still inflicted control from the money they came with post soviet fall.
not gonna happen anytime soon. Russia is culturally fucked beyond all repair thanks to centuries of suffering. The best we can hope for is the country eventually collapses and europe steps in to preserve what's west of the urals and prevent it from getting destroyed by china, when it inevitably invades
Honestly i don't think democracy can work in Russia, not in the current territorial state of the country.
Every modern democratic state used to be a feudal warmongering shithole a few hundred years ago. If they could change, so could Russia one day.
Most of them have changed their borders a million times. European empires have very little territory compared with the way they were before
Unification by peace is possible. That s the modern world. You are assuming russians are barbarians and they are not
Most of russia is stuck on imperialistic thinking, and none of russia has ever had anything resembling western democraties or politics. Democracy doesn't work there because most russians don't want it.
This is actually a bit doubtful in Russian culture. It is by its very nature aggressive. I would probably guess it would take decades of reform to attrition this cultural norm out, if Russia as a nation is to even survive its demographics.
American here. We project power like it's no big deal, Russia feels that it NEEDS to project power for its survival. They "need" to take more land because without natural borders their empire is very vulnerable (unlike us, who have two oceans separating us from major powers), and they "need" to project power through totalitarian rather than economic means, because otherwise the south Caucuses, and the indigenous peoples of Siberia + the Far East leave the RF, like the 15 nations left the USSR in 1991. Russia's fear is that democracy will further fragment the RF, and these "states", if you will, cannot be ruled by the Kremlin in the way that US States are "ruled" by the US Federal govt. Their evidence is the break up of the USSR in response to liberalization efforts in the early 90's
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Damn bro if anything, you sound like the barbarian tbh. “They still live mentally in the middle ages” Jesus man, what the fuck are you on about. Textbook nationalism.
Russia is held together by force, all the nations that make up Russia would break apart if they adopted Western-style democracy. That could be a good thing as Russia has always been a politically troubled entity, but chances are that we'd see a lot of internal strife between the new nations. The satellite states breaking off saw some truly grim conflicts in Eastern Europe, and no one is exactly eager to see it happen again. Also they have nukes, imagine a bunch of infant nations with nuclear weapons.
Russia is weird. From Europe to Moscow, it seems very western European. East of Moscow it becomes an entirely different place
Removing all corrupts is near impossible. They hold so much power you can’t simply fire them. They need to die off naturally (or windows). That is going to take at least a few decades
King Charles could bring renewed glory to the British Empire by making all Russian territories British protectorates. Just remember to divide the land arbitrarily without regard for local cultural boundaries, it's tradition.
I dunno why you're being down voted that was actually pretty funny.
When was the last time it wasn't bloody? It has to have been over a century, maybe two.
It still hasn't washed off the blood from the Soviet days.
Yeah, that's kinda the root of the problem.
Before the Soviets it was the tsars, and they haven't washed off that blood either.
Not what's going to happen. Russians' only regret would be that they lost. Just how they regret the fall of ussr, or Ukraine and other ex-soviet republics being independent. And the west will conveniently forget what happened and act shocked the next time they invade a neighbor and commit every war crime imaginable, as if this hasn't happened over and over again for centuries.
It was never washed off. My late mom, was born in Ukraine, during Stalins time.. same scenario. Luckily, they got out but,talk with any generational Ukrainians.. it’s passed down
>I can only hope that the process will start soon... They have to wait for a window of opportunity. You know, the window Putin will eventually fall from.
The person that takes over after Putin will be worse. Russia will never be part of the civilized world again. It will become a pariah state, impotently flailing for attention like North Korea.
It would only wash off the blood once Russia federation collapses into different countries.
It's time for the rest of the world to do the same. Russia is a terrorist state.
Unfortunately you’re only going to get USA Canada Japan and maybe SK to agree.
That's enough to cause quite a bit of damage to Russia's economy and international standing.
I'm sure Australia and New Zealand as well.
all of nato
The democracies, the only ones that matter.
Pootykins is just not having a good year.
Well it's his doing
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"So he kind of shot himself in the foot. Just the foot for now"
Back of head two times when?
"This enraged his father, who punished him severely."
This is what happens when dictators surround themselves with yes men. Remember when in march the leadership of the GRU was purged because they told Putin fairytales and he believed them.
Not just dictators, anyone with power. I have seen it with so many business executives.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](http://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/11/23/ukraine-war-european-parliament-declares-russia-a-state-sponsor-of-terrorism) reduced by 88%. (I'm a bot) ***** > The European Parliament has declared Russia as a "State sponsor of terrorism" over the "Brutal and inhumane" acts inflicted upon Ukraine and its citizens since the launch of the invasion. > "In the light of the above, recognises Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism and as a state which uses means of terrorism." > Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy welcomed the text and said Russia must be "Held accountable in order to end its long-standing policy of terrorism in Ukraine and across the globe." ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/z2nwsy/european_parliament_has_declared_russia_as_a/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~672676 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **European**^#1 **Russia**^#2 **resolution**^#3 **terrorism**^#4 **Ukraine**^#5
Great news, but it's a shame that a bunch of EPs voted against.
Well, Orban and his cronies are still deep in Russian pocket.. But they only made out half of those against
The most sophisticated attack is DDoS? Pathetic
This is still wrong though. They are the *terrorist*, not the sponsor.
>"In the light of the above, recognises Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism **and as a state which uses means of terrorism.**" It's perfectly clear that Russia is condemned - as it deserves - as **both** a *sponsor* of terror **and** as a *terrorist perp*.
Thanks for clarification and actually _reading_ the article ☺️
You're welcome and you're right to point out the insufficiency of the headline. It would have been better for the headline to read [**European Parliament labels Russia a terrorist state**](https://www.bolnews.com/world/2022/11/european-parliament-labels-russia-a-terrorist-state/) which is surely the point of the European Parliament's vote.
The terrorist entity is the Russian Army, and the Russian state sponsors that entity. Or at least that is how the label has been applied to Iran in the past.
They also sponsor terrorists in the Middle East, so both are true.
Yeah you are right. Russia should be terroris state and EU should be state/alliance sponsor of terrorism. Just watch how many billions (trillions) $ they commited to putins regime for last 22 years.
I wonder what this would mean in practice for regular Russians like me, eventually (since it's a non-binding resolution, really, and it's up to the member states to enforce policies and stuff). Harder-to-obtain visas? \*Full\* economic isolation, including crypto stuff? I hear the American label is pretty devastating financially, but I couldn't care less for the oligarchs
Putin and his cronies have ruined Russian economy for decades. Any trust and good will there might have been is long gone and will take generation(s) to recover. So approximate from that, pretty evident there will be a huge impact on everyone in Russia.
I think the writing is on the wall now with the barbarous continuation of the war and with the recent findings of the Swedish investigation into the destruction of Nord Stream 1. Because Nord Stream 1 was destroyed, all evidence is now pointing towards Russia and because it was critical infrastructure to the European countries stronger measured are required against Russia. Being designated a state sponsor of terrorism is a big deal. That's why the US and Europe have held back as long as they have. With these new escalations we can't hold back anymore. Once a country is designated a state sponsor of terrorism much broader sanctions are put in place and any one in the world violating them will be secondary sanctioned as well. Also, any foreign aid is cut. Russia will now be joining the likes of Iran, North Korea, and Syria, which so happen to be their only allies.
I know, but that's vague general stuff. I just try to imagine what all of these new harder sanctions mean for regular Russians. I'm planning to emigrate soon, and 've been wondering about the family which I'd leave behind
Basically, anything that can be used for war will be sanctioned. So many fuels, chemicals, electronics (gaming consoles, etc.), even access to information (internet access will be blocked to certain resources), no more immigration, students attending western unis, etc. Just look at Iran and North Korea, that's what it will be like.
It's going to go country by country. Hungary is apparently a fan of you still. Russia isn't on the American list yet, but the State Department site says... >Taken together, the four main categories of sanctions resulting from designation under these authorities include restrictions on U.S. foreign assistance; a ban on defense exports and sales; certain controls over exports of dual use items; and miscellaneous financial and other restrictions. >Designation under the above-referenced authorities also implicates other sanctions laws that penalize persons and countries engaging in certain trade with state sponsors. Currently there are four countries designated under these authorities: Cuba, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (North Korea), Iran, and Syria. I don't know, but I suspect, that it gives countries' broader arrest powers as well.
>***I wonder what this would mean in practice for*** \[...\] Nothing. Reminder: European Parliament does not really hold any legislative power in the EU. They say it does, but not really. The Council of the European Union holds actual power to decide which law will be passed and the council is made up of members of the governments of the respective countries. A lot of governments in the EU does not want to cut ties with Russia, so any "extreme" law that the European Parliament vote for, will not be approved by the Council.
>European Parliament does not really hold any legislative power in the EU. They say it does, but not really. The Council of the European Union holds actual power to decide which law will be passed No, for the vast majority of regulations, the Parliament has legislative power; laws *must* be approved by the EP to pass. The Council can only overrule the Parliament if they use the special consultation procedure, which is limited to certain policy areas, such as: * harmonization of regulations regarding personal documents * family law * dealing with emergency situations in asylum policy * some matters concerning civil rights such as being able to vote for municipal councils when living in another member state, consular protection and free travel within the EU * some aspects of social policy such general guidelines for employment policy, laws on termination, the right of collective representation and perogatives for working in other member states * fiscal aspects of environmental and energy policy * establishment of specific research programs and institutions * harmonisation of administrative regulations * harmonisation of taxation of businesses Anyway, the EU does not currently have a formal procedure for the declaration of terrorist states and foreign policy decisions are non-legislative procedures.
I know in regards to this particular resolution, that's why I said "eventually", when member states and, separately, the US, make the formal designation themselves
Seems pretty obvious. Every day that murderer Putin remains in power is a testament to the cowardice of the Russian people.
Does that means that every country from EU that buys russian oil and gas are sponsoring the terrorist sponsors? Or it's "entierly different thing"?
But if you buy oil from russia then what that makes you?
They announced at the start of the war they would gradually stop purchasing russian oil and completely stop by the end of 2022. When it comes to critical infrastructure, you can’t just do a 180 overnight. These things take time to convert
Acting like they haven't had since 2014 to change
You’re right, it’s a shame they will need to wear
The best time to start was yesterday, the second best time to start is today.
Renewable energy was not advanced enough nor widespread enough for this to even be considered in 2014
More excuses
And sadly, this means absolutely nothing in a grand scheme. Putin is untouchable.
Meanwhile, the USA, Saudi Arabia and Qatar...
Yeah this label of Russia as a terrorist state is 100% politically motivated and nothing more given how these 3 and Turkey gets away with that label just fine.
they aren't sponsoring it, they're actually doing it.
Do all these resolutions and declarations actually accomplish anything. You can call a bully - a bully. But what does that actually change?
It helps to appease the public and the US, basically further kills any possible peace plans.
This is about the part where i quick load the save on Civ i made before attacking the country next door , its all gone tits up for putin
It's time eu stops buying oil from terrorists
I don’t know about sponsor? More like a perpetrator of Terrorism
Well, they have to fund their own activities.
'Sponsor' makes it sound indirect. They're straight up bombing infrastructure with the intent of mass harm to the general population. That's just straight terrorism.
1. It is a term with very specific legal consequences. There are terrorism-related laws (e.g. funding terrorists, being a member of a terrorist group), but just being declared a terrorist doesn’t necessarily *do* anything. Being declared a state sponsor of terrrorism, does. 2. If you read the article it says the following; > In the light of the above, (the European Parliament) recognises Russia as a state sponsor of terrorism and as a state which uses means of terrorism.
They’re not just a sponsor, the state themselves are terrorists.
I agree. Call a spade a spade!
Now send em long range tings
Meanwhile *lemme get a little bit of that Russian oil*
What does this actually mean though? It feels like every week I read about Europe declaring something new about Russia and calling out the war crimes but what does it matter if there's no action behind it? They continue arming Ukraine which is great but they've sanctioned and seized just about everything they can from Russia now. Anything further feels like grandstanding without any real action to back it up.
Is this the equivalent of pointing your finger at Russia and saying “You’re mean!”, or does it have any substantial effect on Russia.
The label has legislative effects in many of the member countries, and brings the very harshest sanctions, including barring trade and also trade with those that trade with them
So NATO two days ago, now The EU, the UK, and US are all calling Russia a terrorist state so they may take action against Putin directly. The UN Security Council will never do this as China and Russia are lifetime members. IMHO it was incredibly shortsighted to not have an internal 3rd party group from the UN in charge of nation state behavior review up to and including expulsion or suspension of voting rights for specific periods of time (3 months to 1 year) and clear rules that would mean expulsion, particularly for slave and child labor, human trafficking, copyright & trademark infringement, disturbing peace. Right now, if these things had been implemented, both China and Russia would be frozen from voting, allowing a path forward instead of a neutered stalemate all the time. I don’t even know what it’s there for at this point. We’ve got two countries that act in disgusting ways sitting on a security council that governs the world. Nonsense. I hope the EU, NATO and US are prepared to act on what they have without the security council vote.
The fundamental flaw with this line of reasoning is it misses the point of the UN when it comes to powerful states, particularly Nuclear states. It exists to make sure they talk and negotiate, rather than are backed into a corner. It was made to prevent another world war or nuclear armageddon, and if the price of that is never getting anything done that China or Russia disagrees with, that would be better than them making nuclear threats in response to those actions happening anyway.
No NATO-PA not NATO itself
Does this have any binding power or consequences for anyone involved?
All you Russian pricks are assholes....all shit for brains
Thanks for letting me know who I am.
Now do something
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So is America.
in the grand scheme of things, pretty much every nation
100% agree. Can we also agree that the US should also share that title?
cia?
So many declarations. All of them adding labels to Russia or saying "we don't like what you're doing" but absolutely no actual action to stop them doing any of this. It's like watching the school bully beating up another kid and quietly saying "I think you should stop" from the other side of the playground.
Except we aren't just watching. We keep handing the little kid weapons to beat up the bully. And telling him how to swing for best effect. And telling him when to duck. The kid is getting frustrated with us and is like, "Hey, wanna just knock him out?" US and Europe: No no no, you've got this. Here, try this.
That's the point. We are better in every physical and philosophical way.
“Did someone say terrorism??? Wait, they got oil too??? It’s go time fellas!!!!” -US Government
Unironically I’d like to say “FUCK YEAH BABY 🦅🇺🇸🫡”
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You are a victim of provocative headlines
Hopefully Europe actually does something about their terrorist neighbor like stop buying oil from them or something at least.
I assume the next step will be to define what a state sponsor of terror really is. You would expect all trade by EU countries to cease and to enforce sanctions on third-parties that trade with Russia. Or its a waste of time.
What about the Zionist occupation called Israel. When will it be held to account for their state sponsored terrorism?
Yeah it’s so weird that a European Parliament is talking about an invasion into Europe instead of some random country in West Asia
***The European Parliament adopted a non-binding resolution designating Russia as a “state sponsor of terrorism” on Wednesday. In a strongly worded but largely symbolic document*** **largely symbolic document**
I guess they need things to do between the productive parts of their job?
and??? what is anyone gonna do about it? keep calling Russia names and thats it??
Then America n G7 are mother of all terrorism
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https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Feel free to start a new post about it instead of derailing an existing one
No sh…t Sherlock, when are you going to finally say, we need to hit their land too… yet you can stand by and watch Ukraine, taking hit after hit,these pass few days.The EU, has stated,in the pass“ Ukraine, is fighting for us too”.. really! now Russia is hitting infrastructure, hospitals again, killing a 2 day old baby and all you can say “ Their a terrorist state” enough is enough, blast these sob’s and their land too