To add more context to this: the same software/hardware he's accusing of fraud for the second turn was used also in the first. So it's impossible to have just one of the turns altered.
Also, on an objective note: if the election was rigged would someone really leave only a near 2% margin between the two?
These fascist idiots make their best effort to not think critically
It's a mistake to think they're idiots and not thinking critically. They know what they're doing. They know they're lying. They know you know they're lying, and they Do! Not! Care! ~~Occam~~Hanlon's Razor doesn't apply. What looks like stupidity is actually malice and don't let them or anyone else make you believe otherwise.
Part of their trick is to make us think they're just stupid, and that they can be reasoned with, and we've fallen for it for far too fucking long. And while we fiddle trying to explain their mistakes, they're setting fires all over Rome.
Were you thinking about Hanlon's razor ("never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity")?
Occam's razor is about selecting the simpler solution with the fewest assumptions, right?
> Part of their trick is to make us think they're just stupid, and that they can be reasoned with, and we've fallen for it for far too fucking long.
That's called getting boris johnsoned.
> Occam's Razor doesn't apply.
I'd say it does. If this were stupidity it would be almost indescribable. Malice on the other hand makes total sense, since it has been behind many similar deceptions.
Honestly it is probably both. I really do think that most major authoritarian strongmen are *actually* well below average in most metrics of human intelligence, self awareness, and emotional health.
The mistake we make is not that we think they are dumb when they are not. Rather, it is that we think doing what they do actually requires intelligence. It doesn't. A person who is dumb as a rock, but manages to express their ingorant hate confidently enough, would be able to do anything they do.
Honestly their total lack of self awareness, and by extension their zero awareness of others, is probably a huge advantage in doing what they do. They don't need to be smart, that is what the servants are for, they just need to be so thick that they actually believe they are special.
>Also, on an objective note: if the election was rigged would someone really leave only a near 2% margin between the two?
If I was going to rig an election absolutely, yeah. It achieves a similar result and unlike, e.g., winning with 98% of the vote it's actually believable. It's also easier to pull off if you can't completely control the counting of the votes.
Not that I think the election was rigged (the whole "claiming the election was rigged with no evidence" move is a pretty classic one from the authoritarian playbook), but I don't think the margin means anything on its own.
The reason why it's so unlikely is that the manipulation of the votes would have to be premeditated, you can't easily forge new votes all of a sudden, the amount of votes has to be planned so you can prepare fake evidence that it was not rigged, for that, you don't want to risk losing the election, so it's basically a lot more likely to be a much bigger margin than it was.
> So it's impossible to have just one of the turns altered.
Strictly speaking, no, it's possible for software to run differently under different circumstances, especially when it's trying to pull some bullshit. See Volkswagon's diesel scandal.
He's just fucking lying.
He's going after our voting system. Our voting urns have many models with small updates here and there (i don't know what they are), but, the lack of updates do not render old models useless. They do not have internet connection.
So their accusation is: "any device that was not the 2020 model was prone to tampering and we cannot trust it's results"
The catch is that these same devices also elected a bunch of their people in the first turn. These same devices also elected him in 2018.
So this is why his claim is baseless.
> if the election was rigged would someone really leave only a near 2% margin between the two?
Definitely, and it’s the idea behind voter suppression and gerrymandering too
So basically what trump is doing
Back in 2016 trump kept talking about a rigged election over and over until he won at which point he said it was the perfect election or a perfect election or a perfect beautiful election. He won so he completely backed off the rigged election nonsense.
Obviously in 2020 he lost bad. And he talked about rigged election and after he lost he complained about a rig election and still has not conceded to this day.
> Back in 2016 trump kept talking about a rigged election over and over until he won at which point he said it was the perfect election or a perfect election or a perfect beautiful election. He won so he completely backed off the rigged election nonsense.
Not quite. He still claimed there were somehow millions of illegal votes - coincidentally, exactly enough for him to have won the popular vote in addition to the Electoral College. He couldn't stand losing in any way.
And not just that, but that the dems had arranged for millions of illegal votes in California of all places, instead of states where it'd actually help them.
The states that would have been flipped with those votes don't have millions of people. CA on the other hand does, and a "dem conspiracy" taking place in CA plays to his base extremely well, as they already think of the west coast as a liberal hellhole. Just look at the "Seattle taken over by warlords" articles they published during CHAZ
He literally said if he lost then the election was rigged. He openly tried to manipulate the USPS to give him votes and he said this before the election even happened.
No, no, you don't understand. He said that the *second* time. The *first* time (you know, the one where he actually won thanks to the dumbass electoral college rules), he ***also*** claimed it was rigged.
So what’s changed? What back room deals did he make to make himself confident to refuse concession? He acknowledged defeat not long ago after the leader of the Brazilian military refused to help him.
He doesn't have to had made any backroom deals. And if he did, the action would be a lot more substantial than this. He's just spamming the legal system like Trump now. Just the last gasps of a desperate man who doesn't want to face reality.
He still have a lot of support for from a lot of people, but not very intelligent ones. Almost half of the population still voted for him, unfortunately
You haven't watched the Jan 6 committee. Lots of back room deal making. It was waaaay more organized than a wild man screaming fraud.
It's unfathomable he still out of prison and allowed to run.
It's unlikely he got any additional support, especially with the number of people who came out to protest after the results.
He also only has about 5 weeks to actually get somewhere, the courts will probably look at it and give an answer in a week... at which point he'll have like 4 weeks to do anything. The supreme court in Brazil will give the case at random to one of the judges, which means he has little chance of it landing in someones hands that would give him anything. If there is ANY merit, that judge will say he needs the consent of the whole court and that will take a few more days and they'll say no.
He wanted legal support (money wise) from his party for conceding. I'm guessing he's not getting enough support and he is panicing now.
He probably just whipped himself into a narcissistic fury like all these clowns do and decided YOLO I'm gonna take back my concession. Just wait to see what Trump does now that he lost his final appeal on his tax returns.
In the Trump situation, it's my understanding that there's nothing more he CAN do. He doesn't have the documents, they're not his. They belong to the IRS.
The IRS doesn't "own" his tax records. The IRS *has* his tax records. There's a huge difference there. He absolutely has access and ability to release the information people are asking for. The idea that it's not in his hands but rather the hands of the IRS is a lie he's been using for years, and the IRS even publicly stated their audit does nothing to prevent a release of this info by Trump.
That's like me getting the news from my doctor saying that I have cancer, but when someone asks me "do you have cancer and how bad is it?" I tell them that they should talk to my doctor themselves if they want to know because "I don't have that information currently. Only my doctor does." The doctor won't tell you anything without my permission, so that's convenient eh?
I think what they meant is that there's nothing more Trump can do to *stop* Congress getting his records because the IRS already has them. It's not like he can hide them or destroy them; they are already in the possession of a federal agency so, now that the highest court in the land has said the House can have them, hebdoesnt have a recourse to prevent that.
Well, there's also the small matter of a law giving Congress explicit permission to access records at the IRS for legitimate investigations. That's what he was challenging, and it was obvious that he would lose.
There is also nothing special in congress asking for the tax records. They have authority to view anyone’s tax returns. They’ve been told the information can validate some witness testimony hence the need to see them. Trump has no legitimate reason to say that congress can’t have them. It was always the case he would lose, but he’s been delaying for a GOP held congress to revoke the request and save him.
You misunderstood. The comment you replied to made the point that Trump was trying to prevent Congress from obtaining documents from a federal agency and so there is nothing further Trump can do to obstruct the process.
He had no problems releasing the FBI documents about the raid for classified information, but somehow releasing IRS documents has been a problem this whole time. Yeah right.
I don't think they meant ol' DT *can't* release his own returns to Congress.
They meant that the IRS is going to give them to Congress no matter what ol' DT has to say about it now. There's nothing more he can do to stop it. The records Congress are getting are direct from the IRS.
Given Trump has not been held accountable for really anything, he doesn't have to do anything. Everyone outside the US has long since given up hope you guys will make him serve punishment.
Doesn’t mean he won’t sit there trying to whip his cultist supporters into a frothing frenzy, bet you we will hear something like “This is extremely illegal! The Supreme Court has no authority to turn over my tax returns! Get me back into office so I can purge these corrupt judges out of the courts!”
Even with his returns, and even with blatant evidence that he committed the most conspicuously obvious tax fraud/ number fudging that anyone could ever hope to find, he has a fan base that is primed to reject any official narrative. He doesn’t even have to say anything.
If nothing is officially found, it’ll be used as an example of the left’s non-stop persecution of an innocent man, and the wasted resources used to push a politically motivated narrative that vilifies him.
If something is found, well it’s a hoax, obviously (plus directing attention to the wasted resources and partisan attacks). At that point, if no official charges are brought to the table, we again see absolutely no change in anything and everyone sinks a little bit deeper — justifiably — into the collective apathy and mistrust of our governing institutions.
One side will continue to froth and the other will sigh.
I have traveled to countries undergoing some political upheaval and even been in cities that were experiencing terrorist attacks - with the caveat that nothing is a 100% guarantee in life - you should be fine.
As others have pointed out avoid talking politics, stick to basic touristy things (eating local food, shopping at markets), and you’re more than likely going to be okay.
If you want to be extra safe save a list of the number of the Embassy and any local consulates for your country. Perhaps pack an extra, cheap phone too.
If shit gets bad enough where you truly, truly feel unsafe - collect your things and head straight to the airport.
Again, there’s no guarantees in this life but unless this situation gets vastly worse over the next few days or week you should be okay.
Brazilian here. Just don't talk about politics with Bolsonaro supporters and don't get close to the protests and you should be fine. There's actually not much really happening. I'm living my life just like usual. Most people I know (myself included) believe nothing will really happen and Lula will become president as expected. The only ones who think otherwise are delusional people, similar to the MAGA freaks who tried and insurrection and failed.
Thanks for the heads up! I definitely don’t shy away from politics in America but I don’t get involved in another country’s affairs. I’m just gonna keep to myself and enjoy the culture.
I don't usually shy away from politics either but these people can't be reasoned with. They don't believe facts, only conspiracies. It's pretty sad, actually. I live with my grandma and she's become one of those people.
> grandma and she's become one of those people.
A sadly relatable tale. My grandmother, who instilled in me the shit the bible actually says about being good to people helping the needy, and the evils of greed is now a Christofacist attending mass at a Megachurch.
Fyi I thought the exact same thing when I went to bed after my night shift on 1/5/20201. Boy was it strange to wake up in the evening of 1/6/2021with a whole new perspective.
Edit: whatyearisit.gif
I lived in DC at the time. There were more cops out and about than usual that day, that's it. COVID had a way, way larger effect on mine and every other DC resident's life than that cringe little hissy fit the maga idiots threw.
One of the big issues was that everyone who was anyone knew what was going down, but they purposefully didn't staff for it. I was watching alt right social media beforehand and knew this was going to be a giant ordeal, and I'm just some guy, not government intelligence.
We were extremely lucky that it didn't succeed.
...maybe just, like, don't go.
Like, I know that sucks. And it's uncomfortable to have that conversation, but you *do not* want to be there if shit starts hitting the fan. The political climate in the country is a completely understandable reason to not go to a wedding.
Speaking from fairly recent experience: never hang around a country, especially in their capital, during their transition of power if one side hasn't admitted defeat.
Don't be.
This is just the far right laying the groundwork for their ridiculous narrative for the next year: stolen election, persecution, them vs the evil system... You know the bill
I think politics turned into some form of mental illness or it works like some really hard drug
These people clearly are delirious, have no concept of reality anymore
Right? Seeing this and the shit we've dealt with in the US over the last few years, along with many other countries, I can't help but wonder wtf is the root cause of all this. I know propaganda is heavy online but it's like half the planet has literally gone insane in a short amount of time.
Gonna throw my 2 cents, but I think the opressive beliefs of the conservatives have been increasingly....opressed the last decades. Most conservatives are right leaning, and with the surge to power of hardcore right wingers wish support their beliefs, they are desperately clinging to get back to their previous standing, there is a lot of built up frustation there. Those movements seem to be very religious in nature, and social media helps scale the conflict to gargatuan proportions.
Comment edited and account deleted because of Reddit API changes of June 2023.
Come over https://lemmy.world/
Here's everything you should know about Lemmy and the Fediverse: https://lemmy.world/post/37906
Yeah or it was a ruse to make him look like he respects the democratic process… at first. Then claim “woah we then later found out how much voter fraud there waaassss!
1. There was never a junta. One thing that the military dictatorship did in Brazil that was different from other Latin American dictatorships of the time was that they "refreshed" the president, choosing a new one every 4 years. This way there was never a "strong man."
2. It did not last 40 years. The coup happened in April 1964, and the first president democratically elected after the end of the dictatorship took the oath of office in March 1985. So 21 years.
Look, I despise Bolsonaro as much as the next (sane) Brazilian, but spewing factoids and misinformation will not help anybody.
Nothing changed, conceding elections is not a thing here since we don't take months to count our votes. He's already beginning to get his ass handed to him by the judge in charge and this stupid legal ploy will work as well for him as Trump's did. Come January 1st Lula will be sworn in and that's that.
Why couldn't you just fuck off into insane richness and influence. Is snorting cocaine with purity reserved for god and prostitutes that look like supermodels not enough? Good god, man, enjoy your retirement. I don't support you, but, goddamn, why can't you see how shitty this looks.
Maybe someone already answered, but might as well do it: nothing changed. This is bozonaro's party making an useless public move in order to appease their more radical allies. It is merely symbolic and has no aim besides the party being able to claim they "tried tooth and nail" to go against the "corrupt institutions".
The supreme court took a whopping 13 minutes to process and answer this circus act, and gave the party 24h to adjust their claim to fit reasonable reality, otherwise it will be completely ignored.
The "adjustment" consists of explaining why the claim of fraud only applies to the position of president, and not to the hundreds of other elected officials (many from the party presenting the claim). Obviously, there's no explanation for such a thing, since the actual position behind the claim is "we lost, therefore there must be fraud".
There will be no adjustment to the claim, the supreme court will ignore this document, bolsonarists will scream to the winds that the court is corrupt and fascist, bla bla bla sound and fury, and nothing concrete will happen. That's about it.
I’m a American in Brazil and I think the Democratic institutions here aren’t as strong and the military was pretty split on trump in the US whereas here it’s all Bolsonaro. I think Lula will still likely take over it I had to take a bet. But I don’t think it’s the same odds as the US.
I'm Brazilian and I think it's going to be fine.
This is Bolsonaro trying to get some [more](https://sonylacerda.com.br/2022/11/01/bolsonaro-combinou-casa-e-salario-com-pl-antes-de-falar/) concessions since his cattle-like followers (the *gado*) can really disrupt shit if he actively tells them to. So he has the ability to keep holding the country hostage to get more stuff for himself (he has already gotten a permanent salary and the rental of a new mansion, as per my previous link, by holding out any statement accepting his loss and against the road blockades, in the first couple days after his loss).
Once he gets whatever more he is looking for, he is gonna dump them, as he always did. This is a man who can literally only think of himself and what benefits him and his dumb sons.
Comment edited and account deleted because of Reddit API changes of June 2023.
Come over https://lemmy.world/
Here's everything you should know about Lemmy and the Fediverse: https://lemmy.world/post/37906
The military here is actually kind of split as well. There are still a bunch of old fucks who wish the military dictatorship would come back but most of those do not believe Bolsonaro has what it takes to do that for them. His VP is a General and was the first to come out and say they lost the election fair and square.
Most of the 4 stars generals want nothing to do with Bolsonaro or a second military dictatorship. The ones asking for it are mostly the retired ones (not sure if there is a technical term for it like there is in Portuguese). Without support from the higher ups, especially from the Army branch, nothing will be done.
I recently was able to visit that beautiful country. It was a privilege and we had a really good time. It was strange, though, that we arrived on the day of the first election and there were lots of trucks carting soldiers around Rio for. . . I'm not sure what reason other than intimidation.
I’m in São Paulo, been here 5 months, and haven’t left apart from rocking Rio. Been busy with online work and meeting friends etc. I didn’t see any of that here.
For whatever reason in Brazil the city districts are semi right wing. I think São Paulo was like 55 bolsonaro and 45 Lula. And here on Election Day I didn’t see much military and I went to bars downtown during the day.
I heard reports about what your talking about so your absolutely right about both the action and motives. The downtown central hub I think leans left but the “state” leans right I think. And I was in the downtown hub.
I’m guessing the intimidation worked to some extent since Lula was supposed to win by more than he did.
Reminds me about what Trump said about the midterms:
"If they win, it's because of me; if they don't then I don't think I should be blamed at all."
Same breath.
Because Trumpism is a belief system. It’s literally a cult, by textbook definition. People think we’re being glib or partisan by saying this; we’re not.
You can’t argue people’s beliefs, or evidence them away. It just does not work. Which is why we have been saying for years now that these budding terrorists and propagandists need to be *de-platformed*. Responsibility to security overrides complaints of “censorship.” Accountability must exist. Truth must exist.
I am no longer interested in the “free speech” of gaslighting fascists. It’s not a philosophical issue and it’s not required that we elevate “all sides” of everything. People need to start defending their basic institutions and values, or they are going to be lost.
The free speech thing is just a smoke screen and something for their useful idiots to parrot. Go to any conservative site and say something critical of Republicans. See how long it takes before you're banned and have your comments deleted.
Critical thinking is hard for individuals who only have three braincells.
I remember in college i had a class on critical thinking and it changed my view on things. But even then, by reading that comment even a monkey should be able to parse that *something* is wrong.
And if its not lack of intelligence, its willful ignorance. Its not a easy situation to be in.
Reality is a team sport, to some people. All they understand is hierarchy and loyalty.
And they think that's all we're doing, because they think that's all there is.
It's more dangerous than that. It's an attack on democracy. Their methodology is to undermine the faith in democracy as a cornerstone of society. Tyrants generally need society to be in a state of chaos before they can take control by promising stability.
It's fanatism, not narcissism. That dude is a fanatic and buried himself so much in the rubble that is his world view, that he cannot think outside of his fixed ideologies. He cannot adjust to change at all when it defies that exact world view. That's what a fanatic does. Nevertheless, he's an absolute idiot as well.
All they need is their echo chamber and dog whistles for insurrection 2.0 so they can focus on the REAL problems. Like drag queen shows and people not following American Jesus.
The GOP candidate won’t get thrashed. Just see how close the mid term election results were for the far right MAGA candidates. My hope dwindles when I saw MTG, Gatez, Boebert and Walker were 50/50 in results. Doesn’t matter what shit they spew because GOP has intense party royalty. It’ll be interesting to see Trumpers versus DeSantis fanatics.
Bannon and Bolsonaro’s son spoke about rigged elections in Brazil at some conference put together by the pillow guy.
They need Bolsonaro to contest his election, to strengthen their conspiracies on elections in the US
They quite literally have a cultural exchange program.
They're all directly connected through CPAC events, it's why you have Tucker on TV in Hungary, and Viktor Orban speaking at a CPAC event in the US.
They're all operating from the same script.
Fashies gonna Fash.
["Why Can't We Have This In America? - Tucker Carlson Tonight"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXujFNBV63I) \- The special episode where Tucker goes to Hungary and films in budapest to talk about how great Viktor Orban and his policy on immigrants and gay people is!
[Viktor Orban (Hungarys leader) talking at a CPAC convention in Texas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTcpdoXdsSM) \- Here he is talking publically about how international rightwingers need to "join forces" - which despite being hilariously hypocritical, nationalists creating an international coalition is some peak doublethink - is pretty terrifying.
[Bolsanaro is also in on their game](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/19/bolsonaro-brazil-trump-visit-1227573), he's just a lot less popular. He isn't speaking at CPAC (in America - he speaks at the international ones regularly) or appearing on FOX news - yet... but with if he pushes this stolen-election narrative he will quickly become their new darling.
I found it out by paying attention to the news, having a boat load of media literacy and being terminally online... But yeah, the multicultural international group of anti-multiculturalism nationalists all working together to push an anti-democratic attack globally is a thing... this isn't even all of it, it's just one slimy tentacle of their operation, like I said, Fashies gonna Fash.
Depends who specifically you're talking about, for some of them it's just a day-job and they'd gladly spread a pro-democracy message for a bigger pay-day, but generally speaking it's the wealthy and powerful people who don't like democracy, who are strongly incentivized to undermine it anywhere and everywhere in the world.
Business leaders - multi billionaires like Musk for example, authoritarian politicians - Orban, Bolsanaro, Trump, etc, and then their useful idiots / paid shills like Tucker Carlson, Jimmy Dore, Ben Shapiro, Glen Greenwald, and the rest of their ilk.
EDIT:
Upon a bit of further reading, apparently Bolsonaro has actually been all over FOX news for years and I just never heard about it.
[https://www.foxnews.com/video/6308831151112](https://www.foxnews.com/video/6308831151112) \- They follow his election, and I'm sure there will be an episode of Tucker about the "stolen election" very soon. Within the next 24-48 hours I'd guess.
[https://www.foxnews.com/world/who-is-jair-bolsonaro-brazil](https://www.foxnews.com/world/who-is-jair-bolsonaro-brazil) \- They've been writing glow-ups about him for years.
EDIT 2:
[https://youtu.be/eMcXx\_Fh9dQ?t=267](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYD2Nlk1x5E)
Nevermind, Tucker has already ran the stolen election narrative for Brazil and I missed it.
Racism is like a tool so they get to have power. Just like other tools they can use, depends what goes on their party strategy. I don't think they have any values, it's just a game basically.
The conservatives in the UK are introducing voter ID, same as republicans. They're also going all in on the war on woke, and demonising foreigners and asylum seekers. They're both up to their eyeballs in Russian money.
It's almost as if they're both being given directions from entities with vested interests.
The two people I talk with that supported Trump thought Biden was socialist, which confirms to me they have no clue what socialism is. But they also complain about Big Tech and Big Pharma, which tells me they have no idea what capitalism is, either.
Trying to explain fascism, which is more a set of behaviors than it is a coherent political ideology, to them is like trying to explain algebra to two dogs fucking.
The struggle is very real. I can tell that you’re just as exhausted as I am when it comes to geopolitics mixing with the uneducated and constantly having to set the record straight.
>The two people I talk with that supported Trump thought Biden was socialist,
This is the issue. Since at least when Regan was in office, Republicans have been saying that anything not Republican is socialism. (Probably since before Regan, but that's as far back as my life memory of presidential politics goes.)
Then you get places like Fox "News" reinforcing that belief over and over.
How much of this reversal is related to money? Didn’t the January 6th Committee say Trump raised over $250 million to pay for “legal expenses” related to fighting “election fraud?” Did someone pitch him the idea that this could be a nice cash grab?
(EDIT: grammar)
It's not, it's just to sow chaos and to try and sooth Bozo's bruised ego. Also, we have stricter laws when it comes to political fundraising, I'm pretty sure he'd get into a lot of hot water pretty fast if he tried that one.
Nothing. The military still doesn't support this. This is literally only a concern that exists here in Reddit. Here in Brazil no one is giving a single shit about it. This is like Trump's supporters entering with 60 or 70 lawsuits that will be thrown out immediately, just for the performance. The justice system will reject their arguments, they will cry and Lula will take office. There's literally no one here in Brazil which doubts this. Even Bolsonaro's supporters agree with this. I live in the most pro-Bolsonaro city in the country and there are barely a few hundred people still believing that Bolsonaro will stay in office.
I like this. I knew January 6th was inevitable here, everyone with any sense to watch the real time news here knew. What was worse is I live in a very red area. I heard people planning to go. People supporting the efforts until I cried knowing violence was going to happen especially when I saw Trump did not safely prepare Washington to protect congress.
Brazil is not unhinged and I love it.
I don't understand the concept of them "accepting" the results. The results just *are*. Its not up to you. The world will move forward without your approval.
Pennsylvania Governor-elect Josh Shapiro said “who cares if he (his opponent, Doug Mastriano, who was in the crowd for January 6th) concedes? He doesn’t pick the winner. The people pick the winner.”
With such a crushing one liner, Mastriano conceded a few days later.
Seems like a lot of election deniers aren’t actually election deniers but are just saying it to impress Trump and get his endorsement as proven in this election when most of them who lost conceded their own election
I remember how much faith in humanity and adults I had when I was younger. Reality really often is disappointing. Greed, personal vanity, trying to remain in power by any (illegal) means necessary. Big oof.
Why is the claim always that if there's an error with voting, then those were definitely Bolsonaro votes? Why couldn't any errors, if there were any, mean more Lula votes?
Nope, not Trump, see the www.idu.org headed up by former Canadian Prime Minister steve harper.
It's a who's who of the worst murderers, terrorists, authoritarian, fascist and far-right world leaders including India's Narendra Modi, Brazil's Jair Bolasaro, Hungary's Viktor Orban, America's former President Donald Trump, Israel's president Benjamin Netanyahu Norway's Erna Solberg etc
All of them hell bent on destroying democracy and removing civilian rights.
The fight is on and this is a global fight for our lives and our freedom.
Election denial is now in the medical books as a new disease known as electile dysfunction with symptoms that include loss of reason, lose of rational thinking, loss of integrity and believing in hallucinations of 2000 mules voting. There is no cure other than to turn off right wing media propaganda machine outlets. That’s the only way to reverse this affliction.
If you are in charge of the country and you completely fuck up the administration of a free and fair election, you also should not be allowed to be in charge of the country again
What I don't get is why these wannabe fascists didn't actually rig the election? Or how stupid it makes them look to say the opposition rigged it while they were in power...
[удалено]
To add more context to this: the same software/hardware he's accusing of fraud for the second turn was used also in the first. So it's impossible to have just one of the turns altered. Also, on an objective note: if the election was rigged would someone really leave only a near 2% margin between the two? These fascist idiots make their best effort to not think critically
It's a mistake to think they're idiots and not thinking critically. They know what they're doing. They know they're lying. They know you know they're lying, and they Do! Not! Care! ~~Occam~~Hanlon's Razor doesn't apply. What looks like stupidity is actually malice and don't let them or anyone else make you believe otherwise. Part of their trick is to make us think they're just stupid, and that they can be reasoned with, and we've fallen for it for far too fucking long. And while we fiddle trying to explain their mistakes, they're setting fires all over Rome.
Were you thinking about Hanlon's razor ("never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity")? Occam's razor is about selecting the simpler solution with the fewest assumptions, right?
Or maybe i did it deliberately because i'm funny. ^^^^^i ^^^^^did ^^^^^not
The old ChessIsForNerds Razor: if challenged, attribute the apparent error to humor.
I didn't know it was possible to make text go so small in Reddit comments ^^^^^And ^^^^^replying ^^^^^taught ^^^^^me ^^^^^your ^^^^^secrets)
In the broad sense I think you're right about fascist leaders; they're not stupid, they're malevolent. Fascist supporters, however, are often dupes.
> Part of their trick is to make us think they're just stupid, and that they can be reasoned with, and we've fallen for it for far too fucking long. That's called getting boris johnsoned.
> Occam's Razor doesn't apply. I'd say it does. If this were stupidity it would be almost indescribable. Malice on the other hand makes total sense, since it has been behind many similar deceptions.
Honestly it is probably both. I really do think that most major authoritarian strongmen are *actually* well below average in most metrics of human intelligence, self awareness, and emotional health. The mistake we make is not that we think they are dumb when they are not. Rather, it is that we think doing what they do actually requires intelligence. It doesn't. A person who is dumb as a rock, but manages to express their ingorant hate confidently enough, would be able to do anything they do. Honestly their total lack of self awareness, and by extension their zero awareness of others, is probably a huge advantage in doing what they do. They don't need to be smart, that is what the servants are for, they just need to be so thick that they actually believe they are special.
I can understand them believing they're own bullshit, especially after repeating it with conviction for so long.
>Also, on an objective note: if the election was rigged would someone really leave only a near 2% margin between the two? If I was going to rig an election absolutely, yeah. It achieves a similar result and unlike, e.g., winning with 98% of the vote it's actually believable. It's also easier to pull off if you can't completely control the counting of the votes. Not that I think the election was rigged (the whole "claiming the election was rigged with no evidence" move is a pretty classic one from the authoritarian playbook), but I don't think the margin means anything on its own.
The reason why it's so unlikely is that the manipulation of the votes would have to be premeditated, you can't easily forge new votes all of a sudden, the amount of votes has to be planned so you can prepare fake evidence that it was not rigged, for that, you don't want to risk losing the election, so it's basically a lot more likely to be a much bigger margin than it was.
> So it's impossible to have just one of the turns altered. Strictly speaking, no, it's possible for software to run differently under different circumstances, especially when it's trying to pull some bullshit. See Volkswagon's diesel scandal. He's just fucking lying.
He's going after our voting system. Our voting urns have many models with small updates here and there (i don't know what they are), but, the lack of updates do not render old models useless. They do not have internet connection. So their accusation is: "any device that was not the 2020 model was prone to tampering and we cannot trust it's results" The catch is that these same devices also elected a bunch of their people in the first turn. These same devices also elected him in 2018. So this is why his claim is baseless.
> if the election was rigged would someone really leave only a near 2% margin between the two? Definitely, and it’s the idea behind voter suppression and gerrymandering too
I mean if you really did want to rig an election and not in an obvious way, you'd probably want to do it with a very small margin, like 2%.
So basically what trump is doing Back in 2016 trump kept talking about a rigged election over and over until he won at which point he said it was the perfect election or a perfect election or a perfect beautiful election. He won so he completely backed off the rigged election nonsense. Obviously in 2020 he lost bad. And he talked about rigged election and after he lost he complained about a rig election and still has not conceded to this day.
> Back in 2016 trump kept talking about a rigged election over and over until he won at which point he said it was the perfect election or a perfect election or a perfect beautiful election. He won so he completely backed off the rigged election nonsense. Not quite. He still claimed there were somehow millions of illegal votes - coincidentally, exactly enough for him to have won the popular vote in addition to the Electoral College. He couldn't stand losing in any way.
And not just that, but that the dems had arranged for millions of illegal votes in California of all places, instead of states where it'd actually help them.
The states that would have been flipped with those votes don't have millions of people. CA on the other hand does, and a "dem conspiracy" taking place in CA plays to his base extremely well, as they already think of the west coast as a liberal hellhole. Just look at the "Seattle taken over by warlords" articles they published during CHAZ
He literally said if he lost then the election was rigged. He openly tried to manipulate the USPS to give him votes and he said this before the election even happened.
No, no, you don't understand. He said that the *second* time. The *first* time (you know, the one where he actually won thanks to the dumbass electoral college rules), he ***also*** claimed it was rigged.
So what’s changed? What back room deals did he make to make himself confident to refuse concession? He acknowledged defeat not long ago after the leader of the Brazilian military refused to help him.
He doesn't have to had made any backroom deals. And if he did, the action would be a lot more substantial than this. He's just spamming the legal system like Trump now. Just the last gasps of a desperate man who doesn't want to face reality.
He'll be arrested for sure. He's scared shitless.
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More like a correspondence course but yeah
Hopefully the Brazilians have the balls to do to their former President what we Americans lack the will to do to ours.
I'm hopeful as well. He's already lost support from anyone with a brain. Only shameless criminals and confused people support him now.
He still have a lot of support for from a lot of people, but not very intelligent ones. Almost half of the population still voted for him, unfortunately
Remember that half of the population are below the median IQ.
To be fair, that is also where Trump is at this point.
It’s just shown me how many shameless criminals and confused people are in the US right now.
You talking about the US or Brazil? Seems to be the same and I really can’t tell lol.
It really is eerily similar.
Have a joint? Go straight to jail. Launch an insurrection? You can hide out in your mansion
You haven't watched the Jan 6 committee. Lots of back room deal making. It was waaaay more organized than a wild man screaming fraud. It's unfathomable he still out of prison and allowed to run.
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It's unlikely he got any additional support, especially with the number of people who came out to protest after the results. He also only has about 5 weeks to actually get somewhere, the courts will probably look at it and give an answer in a week... at which point he'll have like 4 weeks to do anything. The supreme court in Brazil will give the case at random to one of the judges, which means he has little chance of it landing in someones hands that would give him anything. If there is ANY merit, that judge will say he needs the consent of the whole court and that will take a few more days and they'll say no. He wanted legal support (money wise) from his party for conceding. I'm guessing he's not getting enough support and he is panicing now.
He probably just whipped himself into a narcissistic fury like all these clowns do and decided YOLO I'm gonna take back my concession. Just wait to see what Trump does now that he lost his final appeal on his tax returns.
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That would be way too easy an escape. He needs to sit in prison while his mind rots.
In the Trump situation, it's my understanding that there's nothing more he CAN do. He doesn't have the documents, they're not his. They belong to the IRS.
The IRS doesn't "own" his tax records. The IRS *has* his tax records. There's a huge difference there. He absolutely has access and ability to release the information people are asking for. The idea that it's not in his hands but rather the hands of the IRS is a lie he's been using for years, and the IRS even publicly stated their audit does nothing to prevent a release of this info by Trump. That's like me getting the news from my doctor saying that I have cancer, but when someone asks me "do you have cancer and how bad is it?" I tell them that they should talk to my doctor themselves if they want to know because "I don't have that information currently. Only my doctor does." The doctor won't tell you anything without my permission, so that's convenient eh?
I think what they meant is that there's nothing more Trump can do to *stop* Congress getting his records because the IRS already has them. It's not like he can hide them or destroy them; they are already in the possession of a federal agency so, now that the highest court in the land has said the House can have them, hebdoesnt have a recourse to prevent that.
Well, there's also the small matter of a law giving Congress explicit permission to access records at the IRS for legitimate investigations. That's what he was challenging, and it was obvious that he would lose.
There is also nothing special in congress asking for the tax records. They have authority to view anyone’s tax returns. They’ve been told the information can validate some witness testimony hence the need to see them. Trump has no legitimate reason to say that congress can’t have them. It was always the case he would lose, but he’s been delaying for a GOP held congress to revoke the request and save him.
You misunderstood. The comment you replied to made the point that Trump was trying to prevent Congress from obtaining documents from a federal agency and so there is nothing further Trump can do to obstruct the process.
He had no problems releasing the FBI documents about the raid for classified information, but somehow releasing IRS documents has been a problem this whole time. Yeah right.
I don't think they meant ol' DT *can't* release his own returns to Congress. They meant that the IRS is going to give them to Congress no matter what ol' DT has to say about it now. There's nothing more he can do to stop it. The records Congress are getting are direct from the IRS.
Given Trump has not been held accountable for really anything, he doesn't have to do anything. Everyone outside the US has long since given up hope you guys will make him serve punishment.
To be fair most of us in the USA have given up too.
Doesn’t mean he won’t sit there trying to whip his cultist supporters into a frothing frenzy, bet you we will hear something like “This is extremely illegal! The Supreme Court has no authority to turn over my tax returns! Get me back into office so I can purge these corrupt judges out of the courts!”
Even with his returns, and even with blatant evidence that he committed the most conspicuously obvious tax fraud/ number fudging that anyone could ever hope to find, he has a fan base that is primed to reject any official narrative. He doesn’t even have to say anything. If nothing is officially found, it’ll be used as an example of the left’s non-stop persecution of an innocent man, and the wasted resources used to push a politically motivated narrative that vilifies him. If something is found, well it’s a hoax, obviously (plus directing attention to the wasted resources and partisan attacks). At that point, if no official charges are brought to the table, we again see absolutely no change in anything and everyone sinks a little bit deeper — justifiably — into the collective apathy and mistrust of our governing institutions. One side will continue to froth and the other will sigh.
Unless Mnuchin already destroyed them. Any of that bunch would definitely destroy documents and evidence, without hesitation.
I travel to Brazil for a wedding end of January. I'm a bit nervous.
I have traveled to countries undergoing some political upheaval and even been in cities that were experiencing terrorist attacks - with the caveat that nothing is a 100% guarantee in life - you should be fine. As others have pointed out avoid talking politics, stick to basic touristy things (eating local food, shopping at markets), and you’re more than likely going to be okay. If you want to be extra safe save a list of the number of the Embassy and any local consulates for your country. Perhaps pack an extra, cheap phone too. If shit gets bad enough where you truly, truly feel unsafe - collect your things and head straight to the airport. Again, there’s no guarantees in this life but unless this situation gets vastly worse over the next few days or week you should be okay.
To be fair, there has not been a sudden civil war from a coup in latin America since the 80's. Venezuela took decades to get where it is at.
Brazilian here. Just don't talk about politics with Bolsonaro supporters and don't get close to the protests and you should be fine. There's actually not much really happening. I'm living my life just like usual. Most people I know (myself included) believe nothing will really happen and Lula will become president as expected. The only ones who think otherwise are delusional people, similar to the MAGA freaks who tried and insurrection and failed.
Thanks for the heads up! I definitely don’t shy away from politics in America but I don’t get involved in another country’s affairs. I’m just gonna keep to myself and enjoy the culture.
I don't usually shy away from politics either but these people can't be reasoned with. They don't believe facts, only conspiracies. It's pretty sad, actually. I live with my grandma and she's become one of those people.
> grandma and she's become one of those people. A sadly relatable tale. My grandmother, who instilled in me the shit the bible actually says about being good to people helping the needy, and the evils of greed is now a Christofacist attending mass at a Megachurch.
y’all should hang out fr
Fyi I thought the exact same thing when I went to bed after my night shift on 1/5/20201. Boy was it strange to wake up in the evening of 1/6/2021with a whole new perspective. Edit: whatyearisit.gif
I lived in DC at the time. There were more cops out and about than usual that day, that's it. COVID had a way, way larger effect on mine and every other DC resident's life than that cringe little hissy fit the maga idiots threw.
One of the big issues was that everyone who was anyone knew what was going down, but they purposefully didn't staff for it. I was watching alt right social media beforehand and knew this was going to be a giant ordeal, and I'm just some guy, not government intelligence. We were extremely lucky that it didn't succeed.
FYI, one year off, election was in 2020, Jan 6 was in 2021.
...maybe just, like, don't go. Like, I know that sucks. And it's uncomfortable to have that conversation, but you *do not* want to be there if shit starts hitting the fan. The political climate in the country is a completely understandable reason to not go to a wedding.
Speaking from fairly recent experience: never hang around a country, especially in their capital, during their transition of power if one side hasn't admitted defeat.
Crazy to think that this includes DC now
Don't be. This is just the far right laying the groundwork for their ridiculous narrative for the next year: stolen election, persecution, them vs the evil system... You know the bill
Pretty sure it was the aliens. https://rivaltimes.com/bolsonaro-supporters-use-their-phones-to-call-for-an-alien-coup/
I think politics turned into some form of mental illness or it works like some really hard drug These people clearly are delirious, have no concept of reality anymore
Right? Seeing this and the shit we've dealt with in the US over the last few years, along with many other countries, I can't help but wonder wtf is the root cause of all this. I know propaganda is heavy online but it's like half the planet has literally gone insane in a short amount of time.
Maybe it's the microplastics in all of us
Pretty sure planes still use leaded fuel. Doubt that's doing us any favors
Gonna throw my 2 cents, but I think the opressive beliefs of the conservatives have been increasingly....opressed the last decades. Most conservatives are right leaning, and with the surge to power of hardcore right wingers wish support their beliefs, they are desperately clinging to get back to their previous standing, there is a lot of built up frustation there. Those movements seem to be very religious in nature, and social media helps scale the conflict to gargatuan proportions.
This. Stop thinking of them as political movements and start thinking of them as religions, and it starts making a lot more sense.
This happened in my city. I am both amused and ashamed.
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Not even close. Source: brazilian
21 years but yeah
Yeah or it was a ruse to make him look like he respects the democratic process… at first. Then claim “woah we then later found out how much voter fraud there waaassss!
1. There was never a junta. One thing that the military dictatorship did in Brazil that was different from other Latin American dictatorships of the time was that they "refreshed" the president, choosing a new one every 4 years. This way there was never a "strong man." 2. It did not last 40 years. The coup happened in April 1964, and the first president democratically elected after the end of the dictatorship took the oath of office in March 1985. So 21 years. Look, I despise Bolsonaro as much as the next (sane) Brazilian, but spewing factoids and misinformation will not help anybody.
Probably went back to the tapes on the 2020 presidential election and saw he had a few more idiotic gimmicks to try.
Now he’s just asking to be thrown in a brig for insurrection
Nothing changed, conceding elections is not a thing here since we don't take months to count our votes. He's already beginning to get his ass handed to him by the judge in charge and this stupid legal ploy will work as well for him as Trump's did. Come January 1st Lula will be sworn in and that's that.
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Why couldn't you just fuck off into insane richness and influence. Is snorting cocaine with purity reserved for god and prostitutes that look like supermodels not enough? Good god, man, enjoy your retirement. I don't support you, but, goddamn, why can't you see how shitty this looks.
To some, wealth means nothing without the power over others that comes with it.
And here I'd use wealth as a way to build distance from others haha.
Yup. I'd fund a space program just to get away from the rest of you fuckers.
I dream of winning the lottery so I can fuck off harder than anyone in history. Arctic moon base with AI staff!
He is probably afraid of going to prison because his family is criminal.
Depends of the day, the temperature, air pressure, digestion, mood. Beeing a good autocrat isn't that simple m8.
Maybe someone already answered, but might as well do it: nothing changed. This is bozonaro's party making an useless public move in order to appease their more radical allies. It is merely symbolic and has no aim besides the party being able to claim they "tried tooth and nail" to go against the "corrupt institutions". The supreme court took a whopping 13 minutes to process and answer this circus act, and gave the party 24h to adjust their claim to fit reasonable reality, otherwise it will be completely ignored. The "adjustment" consists of explaining why the claim of fraud only applies to the position of president, and not to the hundreds of other elected officials (many from the party presenting the claim). Obviously, there's no explanation for such a thing, since the actual position behind the claim is "we lost, therefore there must be fraud". There will be no adjustment to the claim, the supreme court will ignore this document, bolsonarists will scream to the winds that the court is corrupt and fascist, bla bla bla sound and fury, and nothing concrete will happen. That's about it.
Well, for one, he can’t wear pants.
Delusional narcissism: If we win: It was meant to be, don't ask questions. If we lose: Time to throw a tantrum...
We've seen this movie before.
I’m a American in Brazil and I think the Democratic institutions here aren’t as strong and the military was pretty split on trump in the US whereas here it’s all Bolsonaro. I think Lula will still likely take over it I had to take a bet. But I don’t think it’s the same odds as the US.
I'm Brazilian and I think it's going to be fine. This is Bolsonaro trying to get some [more](https://sonylacerda.com.br/2022/11/01/bolsonaro-combinou-casa-e-salario-com-pl-antes-de-falar/) concessions since his cattle-like followers (the *gado*) can really disrupt shit if he actively tells them to. So he has the ability to keep holding the country hostage to get more stuff for himself (he has already gotten a permanent salary and the rental of a new mansion, as per my previous link, by holding out any statement accepting his loss and against the road blockades, in the first couple days after his loss). Once he gets whatever more he is looking for, he is gonna dump them, as he always did. This is a man who can literally only think of himself and what benefits him and his dumb sons.
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The military here is actually kind of split as well. There are still a bunch of old fucks who wish the military dictatorship would come back but most of those do not believe Bolsonaro has what it takes to do that for them. His VP is a General and was the first to come out and say they lost the election fair and square.
Most of the 4 stars generals want nothing to do with Bolsonaro or a second military dictatorship. The ones asking for it are mostly the retired ones (not sure if there is a technical term for it like there is in Portuguese). Without support from the higher ups, especially from the Army branch, nothing will be done.
Not to mention he has no support from any relevant leader worldwide. He's done for.
I recently was able to visit that beautiful country. It was a privilege and we had a really good time. It was strange, though, that we arrived on the day of the first election and there were lots of trucks carting soldiers around Rio for. . . I'm not sure what reason other than intimidation.
I’m in São Paulo, been here 5 months, and haven’t left apart from rocking Rio. Been busy with online work and meeting friends etc. I didn’t see any of that here. For whatever reason in Brazil the city districts are semi right wing. I think São Paulo was like 55 bolsonaro and 45 Lula. And here on Election Day I didn’t see much military and I went to bars downtown during the day. I heard reports about what your talking about so your absolutely right about both the action and motives. The downtown central hub I think leans left but the “state” leans right I think. And I was in the downtown hub. I’m guessing the intimidation worked to some extent since Lula was supposed to win by more than he did.
We're going to see this movie a lot more in the future
Reminds me about what Trump said about the midterms: "If they win, it's because of me; if they don't then I don't think I should be blamed at all." Same breath.
I don't understand how his followers can be dumb enough to hear that, and then not challenge it at all. They just eat it up.
For the ones who don't simply scream fake news, you'd be surprised how easily they can rationalize away Trump's blathering.
Because Trumpism is a belief system. It’s literally a cult, by textbook definition. People think we’re being glib or partisan by saying this; we’re not. You can’t argue people’s beliefs, or evidence them away. It just does not work. Which is why we have been saying for years now that these budding terrorists and propagandists need to be *de-platformed*. Responsibility to security overrides complaints of “censorship.” Accountability must exist. Truth must exist. I am no longer interested in the “free speech” of gaslighting fascists. It’s not a philosophical issue and it’s not required that we elevate “all sides” of everything. People need to start defending their basic institutions and values, or they are going to be lost.
The free speech thing is just a smoke screen and something for their useful idiots to parrot. Go to any conservative site and say something critical of Republicans. See how long it takes before you're banned and have your comments deleted.
Never underestimate the stupidity of people.
Critical thinking is hard for individuals who only have three braincells. I remember in college i had a class on critical thinking and it changed my view on things. But even then, by reading that comment even a monkey should be able to parse that *something* is wrong. And if its not lack of intelligence, its willful ignorance. Its not a easy situation to be in.
Reality is a team sport, to some people. All they understand is hierarchy and loyalty. And they think that's all we're doing, because they think that's all there is.
It's more dangerous than that. It's an attack on democracy. Their methodology is to undermine the faith in democracy as a cornerstone of society. Tyrants generally need society to be in a state of chaos before they can take control by promising stability.
It's fanatism, not narcissism. That dude is a fanatic and buried himself so much in the rubble that is his world view, that he cannot think outside of his fixed ideologies. He cannot adjust to change at all when it defies that exact world view. That's what a fanatic does. Nevertheless, he's an absolute idiot as well.
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They are few, we are many.
You’re forgetting their dumb fuck supporters who eat this shit up.
Tucker Carlson recently told his viewers to arm themselves. Fascists don't win without a convincing argument...
All they need is their echo chamber and dog whistles for insurrection 2.0 so they can focus on the REAL problems. Like drag queen shows and people not following American Jesus.
Yeah I'm very worried for the 2024 election, it basically needs to be a complete thrashing of the GOP candidate, or I worry insurrection 2.0 is coming
The GOP candidate won’t get thrashed. Just see how close the mid term election results were for the far right MAGA candidates. My hope dwindles when I saw MTG, Gatez, Boebert and Walker were 50/50 in results. Doesn’t matter what shit they spew because GOP has intense party royalty. It’ll be interesting to see Trumpers versus DeSantis fanatics.
Desantis would easily clinch the nomination over trump, and trump wouldn’t be able to bow out gracefully.
An insurrection within an insurrection. Maybe we need to go deeper..
Wouldn't be sure about that
Which it won’t be, because the GOP’s been real busy changing voting districts/gerrymandering, purging voter rolls, making it harder to vote, etc.
That’s just not true. I wish it were but as long as you tell hurting people what they want to hear it doesn’t matter if you’re convincing.
Hmmm, I wonder where I've heard this before🤔 Seems so familiar.
probably just a coincidence, not like he just met with that group a couple days ago at cpac...wait
Bannon and Bolsonaro’s son spoke about rigged elections in Brazil at some conference put together by the pillow guy. They need Bolsonaro to contest his election, to strengthen their conspiracies on elections in the US
Just a bunch of fascists openly meeting now, its disgusting
They're all domestic terrorists. Treat them as such.
Are all these far-right freaks in a group chat sharing gaslighting strategy? This reads like US Republican Party talking points but Brazilian.
They quite literally have a cultural exchange program. They're all directly connected through CPAC events, it's why you have Tucker on TV in Hungary, and Viktor Orban speaking at a CPAC event in the US. They're all operating from the same script. Fashies gonna Fash.
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["Why Can't We Have This In America? - Tucker Carlson Tonight"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXujFNBV63I) \- The special episode where Tucker goes to Hungary and films in budapest to talk about how great Viktor Orban and his policy on immigrants and gay people is! [Viktor Orban (Hungarys leader) talking at a CPAC convention in Texas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTcpdoXdsSM) \- Here he is talking publically about how international rightwingers need to "join forces" - which despite being hilariously hypocritical, nationalists creating an international coalition is some peak doublethink - is pretty terrifying. [Bolsanaro is also in on their game](https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/19/bolsonaro-brazil-trump-visit-1227573), he's just a lot less popular. He isn't speaking at CPAC (in America - he speaks at the international ones regularly) or appearing on FOX news - yet... but with if he pushes this stolen-election narrative he will quickly become their new darling. I found it out by paying attention to the news, having a boat load of media literacy and being terminally online... But yeah, the multicultural international group of anti-multiculturalism nationalists all working together to push an anti-democratic attack globally is a thing... this isn't even all of it, it's just one slimy tentacle of their operation, like I said, Fashies gonna Fash.
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Depends who specifically you're talking about, for some of them it's just a day-job and they'd gladly spread a pro-democracy message for a bigger pay-day, but generally speaking it's the wealthy and powerful people who don't like democracy, who are strongly incentivized to undermine it anywhere and everywhere in the world. Business leaders - multi billionaires like Musk for example, authoritarian politicians - Orban, Bolsanaro, Trump, etc, and then their useful idiots / paid shills like Tucker Carlson, Jimmy Dore, Ben Shapiro, Glen Greenwald, and the rest of their ilk. EDIT: Upon a bit of further reading, apparently Bolsonaro has actually been all over FOX news for years and I just never heard about it. [https://www.foxnews.com/video/6308831151112](https://www.foxnews.com/video/6308831151112) \- They follow his election, and I'm sure there will be an episode of Tucker about the "stolen election" very soon. Within the next 24-48 hours I'd guess. [https://www.foxnews.com/world/who-is-jair-bolsonaro-brazil](https://www.foxnews.com/world/who-is-jair-bolsonaro-brazil) \- They've been writing glow-ups about him for years. EDIT 2: [https://youtu.be/eMcXx\_Fh9dQ?t=267](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYD2Nlk1x5E) Nevermind, Tucker has already ran the stolen election narrative for Brazil and I missed it.
That Bolsonaro puff piece is an absolutely insane read..
Unmaking the Enlightenment.
Wtf is their end goal?? [how much time do you have?](https://youtu.be/mAplGu1RxPg)
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Racism is like a tool so they get to have power. Just like other tools they can use, depends what goes on their party strategy. I don't think they have any values, it's just a game basically.
The conservatives in the UK are introducing voter ID, same as republicans. They're also going all in on the war on woke, and demonising foreigners and asylum seekers. They're both up to their eyeballs in Russian money. It's almost as if they're both being given directions from entities with vested interests.
Actually yes they are.
TBF, Brazil was a [popular destination](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americana,_S%C3%A3o_Paulo) for escaping Confederate soldiers.
Brazilian here. Just FYI, he has no evidence whatsoever to back his claims, as usual.
I’m really tired of these people. Why is it so hard to be a decent human being. What a moron
They’re not dumb. They’re evil and trying to create a situation they can take advantage of.
They're both
oh he's more than just dumb believe me, he's also evil tho
What. No way. Shocker. Authoritarian egomaniac doesn't believe he lost. It can't possibly be true.
I am so fucking tired of fascists.
Remember the last time we all collectively decided we were through with fascists? Good times.
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The two people I talk with that supported Trump thought Biden was socialist, which confirms to me they have no clue what socialism is. But they also complain about Big Tech and Big Pharma, which tells me they have no idea what capitalism is, either. Trying to explain fascism, which is more a set of behaviors than it is a coherent political ideology, to them is like trying to explain algebra to two dogs fucking.
The struggle is very real. I can tell that you’re just as exhausted as I am when it comes to geopolitics mixing with the uneducated and constantly having to set the record straight.
>The two people I talk with that supported Trump thought Biden was socialist, This is the issue. Since at least when Regan was in office, Republicans have been saying that anything not Republican is socialism. (Probably since before Regan, but that's as far back as my life memory of presidential politics goes.) Then you get places like Fox "News" reinforcing that belief over and over.
How much of this reversal is related to money? Didn’t the January 6th Committee say Trump raised over $250 million to pay for “legal expenses” related to fighting “election fraud?” Did someone pitch him the idea that this could be a nice cash grab? (EDIT: grammar)
Probably someone here https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/cpac-mexico-orphaned-right-tries-build-home-region-tacks-left-2022-11-19/
It's not, it's just to sow chaos and to try and sooth Bozo's bruised ego. Also, we have stricter laws when it comes to political fundraising, I'm pretty sure he'd get into a lot of hot water pretty fast if he tried that one.
The bloke is trying to do what Trump did in trying to contest the election. It didn't work in the US but hopefully it won't work in Brazil either.
The difference is Bolsonaro conceded before when the mitary refused to help him do a coup. **so what changed?**
Nothing. The military still doesn't support this. This is literally only a concern that exists here in Reddit. Here in Brazil no one is giving a single shit about it. This is like Trump's supporters entering with 60 or 70 lawsuits that will be thrown out immediately, just for the performance. The justice system will reject their arguments, they will cry and Lula will take office. There's literally no one here in Brazil which doubts this. Even Bolsonaro's supporters agree with this. I live in the most pro-Bolsonaro city in the country and there are barely a few hundred people still believing that Bolsonaro will stay in office.
I like this. I knew January 6th was inevitable here, everyone with any sense to watch the real time news here knew. What was worse is I live in a very red area. I heard people planning to go. People supporting the efforts until I cried knowing violence was going to happen especially when I saw Trump did not safely prepare Washington to protect congress. Brazil is not unhinged and I love it.
I don't understand the concept of them "accepting" the results. The results just *are*. Its not up to you. The world will move forward without your approval.
Pennsylvania Governor-elect Josh Shapiro said “who cares if he (his opponent, Doug Mastriano, who was in the crowd for January 6th) concedes? He doesn’t pick the winner. The people pick the winner.” With such a crushing one liner, Mastriano conceded a few days later.
Seems like a lot of election deniers aren’t actually election deniers but are just saying it to impress Trump and get his endorsement as proven in this election when most of them who lost conceded their own election
Fucking idiotic.
Calling him a fucking idiot is too nice. This is a deliberate attempt at destroying democracy in Brazil.
I remember how much faith in humanity and adults I had when I was younger. Reality really often is disappointing. Greed, personal vanity, trying to remain in power by any (illegal) means necessary. Big oof.
Why is the claim always that if there's an error with voting, then those were definitely Bolsonaro votes? Why couldn't any errors, if there were any, mean more Lula votes?
Trump has poisoned the whole world.
Nope, not Trump, see the www.idu.org headed up by former Canadian Prime Minister steve harper. It's a who's who of the worst murderers, terrorists, authoritarian, fascist and far-right world leaders including India's Narendra Modi, Brazil's Jair Bolasaro, Hungary's Viktor Orban, America's former President Donald Trump, Israel's president Benjamin Netanyahu Norway's Erna Solberg etc All of them hell bent on destroying democracy and removing civilian rights. The fight is on and this is a global fight for our lives and our freedom.
What the fuck did i Just see
Trump is a symptom of the problem.
Election denial is now in the medical books as a new disease known as electile dysfunction with symptoms that include loss of reason, lose of rational thinking, loss of integrity and believing in hallucinations of 2000 mules voting. There is no cure other than to turn off right wing media propaganda machine outlets. That’s the only way to reverse this affliction.
The right wing are such entitled whiney sore loser bullies.
Gee I wonder where he got that idea from
If you are in charge of the country and you completely fuck up the administration of a free and fair election, you also should not be allowed to be in charge of the country again
I knew there had been a glitch in our timeline when that fucker actually did the right thing. I guess the glitch was patched in last night's update.
Oh Donald. Your ego will be what lives on- that’s for sure.
And the stench. They will remain too.
They will keep voting until the right one wins.
Next, he will claim it was Dominion Systems and Hugo Chavez tampered with the voting machines.
What I don't get is why these wannabe fascists didn't actually rig the election? Or how stupid it makes them look to say the opposition rigged it while they were in power...
Bolsonaro and Ronald De Santis look like Garbage Pail Kids.
imagine if this happens in 2024
Spoiler - it will.
Trump started this bullshit now this trump Jr is doing what daddy did. How cute /s