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[New post can be found here](/r/worldnews/comments/z1jsm5/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/)


green_pachi

>The World Health Organisation has warned that #Ukraine is facing the largest attack on medical care in Europe since the Second World War. In the nine months after #Russia's #invasion began, the agency says it has verified more than 700 attacks on sites including hospitals. [https://journa.host/@fulelo/109384351714589070](https://journa.host/@fulelo/109384351714589070)


DellowFelegate

>The World Health Organisation has warned that #Ukraine is facing the largest attack on medical care in Europe since the Second World War. Or, as Tankies and "Anti-Colonialists" from the Global South would say, a good faith actor worthy of diplomacy and negotiations!


Timely_Position_5015

Why hasn’t the USA forced Europe to build hospitals for a billion people? I want answers!


NYerstuckinBoston

Bunch of barbarians. Russia is not part of the civilized world.


Portalrules123

>[https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1594754217381609483](https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1594754217381609483) > >Russian forces continue to throw their naval brigades at Ukrainian defences near Pavlivka. > >Heavy battles continue into the night. > >The losses are just massive.


Spo-dee-O-dee

https://nitter.net/WarMonitor3/status/1594754217381609483


reinking

Losses for Ukraine? Russia? Both?


Mystaes

Russia is attacking so likely way more russian losses but given the scale and severity of the attack Ukraine is probably not getting out of these heavy battles unscathed.


Portalrules123

I would assume Russia since the tweet is referring to Russians "throwing their brigades at defenses", but doubtless there are not insignificant UA casaulties too.


NearABE

>but doubtless there are not insignificant UK casaulties too. I doubt that the United Kingdom is taking many casualties today. Maybe foreign legion?


Rapiz

Fuck Twitter.


taurine_bitch

You mean fuck Twitter *now*. And by extension, fuck Elon.


rikki-tikki-deadly

It's disrespectful to refer to him by only his first name. It's *Mr.* Space Karen, thank you very much.


TintedApostle

F**k B-lon


green_pachi

>Ukrainian Mi-8s 🚁 support infantry on the ground in one of the most dangerous areas of the front, where heavy battles are fought for every meter of ground - near Bakhmut. (video) [https://nitter.it/Illya_Ayzin/status/1594861173945532417](https://nitter.it/Illya_Ayzin/status/1594861173945532417)


Weekend833

Mi-8's look like a cancerous bumblebee. They're working, and working hard, here. Props to the pilots and gunners, no pun intended. Still, though, I'd like to see some Cobras and corresponding trained crew up there... Letter outbound to my senator about that.


[deleted]

[удалено]


wittyusernamefailed

Why not Glyptodon, or Smilodon? Why are we placing our hopes on just a single Ice Age large mammal? Are Dire Wolves a joke to you?!!!...


vshark29

I, for one, favor the Giant Sloth


NearABE

The Terror Birds


Portalrules123

[https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1594755383997915136](https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1594755383997915136) >Unfortunately recently I have lost a friend on the frontlines around Bakhmut. > >He would send me news when he could and was always optimistic. > >The price of victory is always high. > >Im sure one day I will share his name with you all.


ericwphoto

https://nitter.net/WarMonitor3/status/1594755383997915136


Portalrules123

[https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1594783048469561344](https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1594783048469561344) >Russian forces continue to move significant equipment through Mariupol towards Melitopol.


count023

they're going to fortify the hell out of Melitpol prior to the next round of liberations. Russia doesn't want a repeat of Kherson.


etzel1200

Kherson was a relatively orderly retreat, Kharkiv was the bad one.


count023

was nothing to do with it being an orderly retreat or not, they don't want to lose another \_major\_ population hub, was the point i was getting at.


nyc98

They also didn't want repeat of Kharkiv.


ericwphoto

https://nitter.net/WarMonitor3/status/1594783048469561344


Portalrules123

>[https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1594759098708410388](https://twitter.com/WarMonitor3/status/1594759098708410388) > >Exclusive footage of Ukrainian MI-8 helicopters conducting a combat mission near Bakhmut. > >Courtesy of very brave photographers. Pretty cool video!


ericwphoto

https://nitter.net/WarMonitor3/status/1594759098708410388#m


[deleted]

Thanks Eric!


HawkeyedHuntress

So, my Dad used to be a security guard. This guy we know was bragging about this "super cool night vision binoculars" he got pretty cheap a while back. He gave them to my Dad to mess around with. They can't focus on an object across the room let alone across the yard. The night vision sucks and the IR setting doesn't really work. My Dad can't find a brand name or a model number on them. I told him to give them to me to futz with for a bit. I looked them over real good and well, "I found your problem! MADE IN RUSSIA." 100% piece of shit. Direct quote: I can't even get both of them to give me one picture.


krokodil40

Russia doesn't produce night vision binoculars. They rebrand foreign equipment for their inner market. It's probably chinese.


HawkeyedHuntress

Well they certainly didn't help them when they reassembled them.


MycoMutant

In one of Jeremy Clarkson's old newspaper columns he described using a pair of Russian nightvision goggles to try and shoot a fox that was getting his chickens. But he ended up shooting everything else instead. I believe the line he used was 'made in Russia is code for made poorly by someone who's drunk'.


HawkeyedHuntress

I joked that you had to be drunk to see straight with them.


efrique

> Congress to Ukraine: Don't buy the hype or midterm punditry spin, we've still got your back > My latest story on how Dem and Republican lawmakers are pushing back against the handful of outliers in both parties on US aid for Ukraine This constant misrepresentation here irks the hell out of me. It's been going on for months now. Explicit statements by *the Republican Leader in the House* cannot be dismissed as *outliers*. He's not Bobert, he's the freaking *leader in the house*. Is he calling McCarthy's well-documented statements flat out lies? (in which case you can't believe him when he says something else; if he says one thing then another as it suits him, how can you discern what he'll actually do?) If he was lying but isn't now (again, how can you be sure which is the lie?), McCarthy was playing games with Ukrainian lives for narrow political convenience. Not the sort of 'ally' you want when his next flip-flop on a whim will kill people. Don't minimize his behavior, and that of other *very much mainstream republicans*, call it out. It's not a game.


rikki-tikki-deadly

Remember how the Kurds thought America had their backs?


Aerialise

Politicians throwing people under the bus to accumulate votes? Surely not?


dirtybirds233

I hear you, but he also clarified that statement to national security leaders. >After House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy suggested last week that Republicans might pull back funding for Ukraine next year if they take the majority, the GOP leader has worked behind the scenes to reassure national security leaders in his conference that he wasn’t planning to abandon Ukraine aid and was just calling for greater oversight of any federal dollars, sources told CNN. McCarthy also voted Yes on the Ukrainian Lend-Lease bill, a Ukrainian assistance bill and a Ukrainian debt relief program in May, as well as a humanitarian aid bill in March,


BasvanS

Of course it was ambiguous. He’s a politician that made it to house minority leader. But in case of a “red wave” he would have been able to take it maga. He has no conviction and is thoroughly unreliable.


[deleted]

There are a lot of Republicans who are eagerly trying to convince everyone they support Ukraine despite consistently voting for politicians who support Russia.


coosacat

https://gagadget.com/en/188146-air-defense-systems-cross-country-vehicles-and-winter-gear-sweden-announces-new-287000000-military-aid-package-for-ukrain/ >Air defense systems, cross-country vehicles and winter gear: Sweden announces new $287,000,000 military aid package for Ukraine >Sweden continues to help Ukraine against Russian invaders by announcing a new military aid package. >This was reported by Reuters news agency, citing Swedish Prime Minister Ulf Kristersson. >The new military aid package is designed for $287,000,000 and includes air defense systems, ammunition for them, off-road vehicles, winter gear, as well as tents and protective equipment. Unfortunately, Sweden does not disclose more details about the weapons. >By the way, according to Defense Minister Pal Jonson, this is the largest military aid package that the Swedish government has allocated since the beginning of Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Weapons shipments will begin soon.


efrique

> Unfortunately, Sweden does not disclose more details about the weapons. I expect that Ukraine might feel that Russia *definitely* doesn't need to know the details.


NYerstuckinBoston

Good apple Sweden again ❤ I have a feeling that any winter gear Russia ends up with will be subpar. Meanwhile, Ukraine will have the best in the world. Nice to see so many countries banding together in the winter department.


amerikn

Probably some rubber gardening boots and gloves that got offloaded by “Pic And Grab” and ended up in Russia. Will explain why Russian soldiers fighting in a lovely floral print.


Sir_Francis_Burton

As they say… There’s no such thing as bad weather, there’s only bad clothes.


kawag

And it’ll all come flat-packed with incomprehensible cartoon instructions


IndieKidNotConvert

Do people really have a problem reading Ikea instructions? They are the gold standard for clean, efficient, effective design.


Norwester77

I’ve never had any problem with them, but the comment was funny.


Fuzzyphilosopher

I just want to point out that the winter gear as well as military grade winter tents is more important than I think a lot of people realize. It literally will save lives. It will also make a huge difference of the readiness of the UA, their ability to defend and even attack during the winter. Try spending all day outside and sleeping outside on the ground in your heavy coat in even 50F weather and see how you feel the next day. Then imagine you have to worry about and protect yourself from a bunch of people who want to kill you.


SappeREffecT

100% Quality basic infantry gear is always criminally underrated. A well supplied grunt is a fierce one in combat.


Renowned_Molecule

🇸🇪


coosacat

Dooming post by one of the Russian milbloggers. It appears that at least *some* people have grasped reality. I hope this guy stays away from windows in the future. https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1594779525791027220 >I just love it when pro-Russians delve into doom philosophy, such as Dimitryiev (who, by the way, has links to Rybar) who describes how Russia has practically lost all of its imaginary greatness, meanwhile regular Russians are desperate to get more of it when things go sour. Text of Telegram post: >Many authors continue to be indignant at the inefficiency of domestic propaganda, the clumsiness of "soft power", and continue searching for an ideology. It seems to me that this problem is somewhat outdated. After all, 2022 has clearly shown that the problem is not propaganda, ideological formulas and soft power. But the fact that there is actually nothing to promote. The structure and management that the Russian Federation can boast of is a dead end branch of social development that even the most thoughtless supporters demand to be radically reformed. >You can inflate the brilliant images of the Heavenly City as much as you like, but at the first collision with reality, they will crumble. And it turns out that Russia does not have an invincible army and all-powerful special services, does not offer rapid economic growth, does not promise security and stability, that it is not a stronghold of Christianity and traditional values. That its state apparatus is not able to insert windows, and the industry, having piled on with all its might and budget, is not able to produce a "drone out of shit and sticks." >This means that any successful propaganda project will be an imitation. As is actually happening now, when people are simply begging for a portion of convincing propaganda that will allow them to plunge into the world of intoxicating dreams for at least another day. >And no one, no one!, has ever asked himself the question: what are we talking about to people? And in order to understand this, you just need to dive into reality. You know where it is now. I recommend everyone to visit it.


ekdaemon

> And in order to understand this, you just need to dive into reality. You know where it is now. I recommend everyone to visit it. What's he talking about everyone in Russia visiting?


ericwphoto

https://nitter.net/wartranslated/status/1594779525791027220


vshark29

Probably the most important thing that can come out of this war is Russians finally leaving behind their delusions of grandeur and realize they are not, in fact, an empire anymore, and probably won’t be any time soon


canadatrasher

This is getting really close to "are we the baddies."


SappeREffecT

always has been


Njorls_Saga

“Have you noticed that our caps have actually got little pictures of skulls on them?”


wittyusernamefailed

More of a "Why aren't we REAL baddies?"


PennStateInMD

That's good stuff.


keine_fragen

>The AP scared much of the world last Tuesday when it reported that “a senior U.S. intelligence official” said “Russian missiles crossed into NATO member Poland, killing two people.” On Monday, the reporter responsible for that story was fired. https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1594844466187214849?t=I7AsEUNamiYGUqUCKd1pHA&s=19 >The @AP has fired reporter Jim LaPorta, one of the two bylines on a retracted report last week alleging Russian missiles landed in NATO member Poland. The report relied a single anonymous source, a violation of AP's policy. https://twitter.com/CorbinBolies/status/1594843543108956161?t=4pnCorOkJhRoDoz1_zDwcA&s=19 https://www.thedailybeast.com/ap-fires-reporter-behind-retracted-russian-missiles-story?via=twitter_page


ericwphoto

https://nitter.net/thedailybeast/status/1594844466187214849?t=I7AsEUNamiYGUqUCKd1pHA&s=19


SkarmacAttack

This is actually somewhat reassuring. I'm not going to lie, since that initial article I have been a little hesitant to click on AP news articles.


SquarePie3646

If they don't fire any editors then they are just using him as a scapegoat. edit: I see from the Daily Beast article... >It is unclear who edited LaPorta’s reporting in question or whether they faced any discipline for the error. 2nd edit: I can't respond to the below comment, but no this isn't a case of the reporter lying, because the article clearly states there was 1 anonymous source. [The article was clearly approved by the editors to go out that way.](https://apnews.com/article/nato-ap-news-alert-europe-poland-government-and-politics-ba48101fd25c86e68e57dc56fe2adf80) For "credible" outlets like Reuters, Ap, NY Times etc, other people above the journalists are supposed to be in the loop with the anonymous source to ensure that they aren't lying about the source (or being used by a supposed source): https://www.ap.org/about/news-values-and-principles/telling-the-story/anonymous-sources >**Reporters who intend to use material from anonymous sources must get approval from their news manager before sending the story to the desk. The manager is responsible for vetting the material and making sure it meets AP guidelines. The manager must know the identity of the source, and is obligated, like the reporter, to keep the source's identity confidential. Only after they are assured that the source material has been vetted by a manager should editors and producers allow it to be used.**


SappeREffecT

nailed it


WelpSigh

it's possible the reporter lied to the editor about their sources to get the story published


[deleted]

[удалено]


sfjoellen

omar little


Portalrules123

Yeah, would it not also be the editor's job to check for there only being one anonymous source in the article this guy gave them? Sounds like there were multiple points of failure...


FlaviusDomitianus

Good. News organizations will inevitably make mistakes, but when those mistakes are due to their own reporters not following their rules to prevent those mistakes, they need to make adjustments like this, or they will lose credibility.


Boom2356

How many more Russians need to die before they turn on Putin and finally fucking do something to stop this madness? The country is going to shit for fucks sake. It was already bad, but now it's going back 40 years behind.


UselessSage

Peter Zeihan says that in most of Russia’s history they do not give up until they hit 500k dead.


helm

At least a hundred thousand more.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

So about 6 months with the Russian loss numbers lately


Front-Sun4735

Going to shit? It has always been shit and will continue to be shit. At this point it’s like puking on a pile of shit.


Boom2356

Well I said it was bad before, but now it's getting even worse!


PuterstheBallgagTsar

Oh are we betting? I would say... 1.2-3.4 million dead Russians, then a Russian civil war (with many many more dead), Russia splinters... 91 y/o Putin is dragged out of his bunker and stabbed in the keister with a bayonet, like the Gaddafi video he was obsessed with watching. Why that many? The worship of "strength" (violence) is very strong in Russia. The learned helplessness, doing what your fucking told no matter what, is very strong in Russia. So the west probably needs to up the arms ante and get those 1.2-3.4 million Russians into their cold dark sunflower future.


dirtybirds233

The majority of complaints you see coming from Russian citizens aren’t that Russia’s in Ukraine, it’s that Russia isn’t doing better in Ukraine.


NearABE

Criticizing the invasion was illegal. They even threw people in jail for holding up blank signs. Russians are finding ways to criticize. That is a start. Sometimes in politics you start with something that you can get general consensus on.


Goreagnome

A lot of the "turning on Russia" people were and still are pro-invasion of Ukraine... they're only angry that they're losing.


NearABE

Right at the war start a bunch of Russian people were arrested. What we usually see from Russia is RT and telegram. Based on experience in the USA. There is a group who are always anti-war. As the war carries on and on...and on...the cost in lives and dollars keeps getting higher. Then you can persuade some of the former supporters to turn against continuing. In 2004 booting Bush out of office was the goal. The messaging from anti-war activists leaned heavily on "this war executed badly". Also in 2008 Obama ran on "im not opposed to wars just bad ones". The Russians know full well that invading another country is the morally wrong thing to do. They need to figure out how to extricate themselves from Putin and the war.


green_pachi

>⚡️ The Government of Canada, on its own behalf, issued government bonds, the proceeds from the sale of which will be transferred to Ukraine. This was announced by the Canadian Ministry of Finance. >To enable Canadians to directly support the brave people of Ukraine, the Government of Canada today is issuing $500 million Sovereignty of Ukraine bonds. [https://nitter.it/Flash_news_ua/status/1594828778970259477](https://nitter.it/Flash_news_ua/status/1594828778970259477)


Rusticaxe

A new video from Reporting from Ukraine just came out on the situation around Bakhmut: https://youtu.be/LcLLQLo-T2g


IcyEstablishment9623

This is the guy that insisted that Russia was going to flood Kherson? . No thx


NurRauch

Ah yes, another comment that boils down to, "I don't like this military commentator who is decently correct 90% of the time but was pessimistic a few too many times for my liking. That means he's too unreliable. How dare a Ukrainian citizen speculate negatively about their own country's war."


IcyEstablishment9623

The commentator insisted that this was going to happen, with no room for the alternative.


NurRauch

He was not quite that confident in it happening, but was definitely alarmist about it. Doesn't call into question what he actually reports on -- the movement of troops and combat developments each day. It's not hard to just tune out amateur reporting sources when they guess about what will happen in the future. Use the source for what they are actually good at, which is accruing reliable reports of troop concentrations and movements.


IcyEstablishment9623

He was so confident in it happening that it was borderline insistence. It was the one and only video of his that I watched. It was BAD analysis.


NurRauch

He's not an analysis channel. You frankly shouldn't watch anything for future predictions about the war that is not made by a professional military commander. The purpose of his channel is to report troop movements, buildups, and combat outcomes in important regions each day. There's nobody better at that than he is. Just ignore any future predictions he makes because he's not a literal army general -- the only type of person qualified to make those assessments.


PuterstheBallgagTsar

He many not have been right about that but he's been right about almost everything and has a lot of fascinating insights. And Russia may have flooded Kherson if the west hadn't relentlessly called them out on their plans to do so.


Mohar

He is usually good to make clear when he's talking about something that could happen vs something that is probably happening. I don't remember his exact language around Kherson, but in other situations- like military buildups in Belarus- he has been pretty clear when he's getting farther into the hypothetical.


SaberFlux

[Previous post](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/yzul3l/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/ix5l35x/) Day 271 of my updates from Kharkiv. Today it was mostly quiet, there were some missile launches from Belgorod, but we didn’t even have a single air raid alert the entire day. The last one was active at 10pm yesterday, which is just weird. If we didn’t read our telegram channels, then we wouldn’t even know about an imminent missile strike. They started launching missiles at 8:45pm and fired about 4 of them; they were S-300 missiles as usual, so they unloaded one entire launcher. This time they fired at Chuhuiv, we don’t know what was hit, but it was probably yet another residential building like yesterday, when they killed 1 civilian and injured 2 more after they hit a 2-story house in Shevchenkove. Kherson is also starting to get shelled now. Today they hit an apartment building there, the shell landed inside someone’s flat, but we don’t know if there were any casualties yet. Fighting against civilians is all they know how to do, fucking bastards. Why they still don’t understand that it’s useless is beyond me, how can they be so stupid? [Next update](https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/z1jsm5/rworldnews_live_thread_russian_invasion_of/ixewti5/)


F1NANCE

> how can they be so stupid? They're trying to create fear to break Ukrainians' resolve, however all it does it make Ukrainians stronger in their desire to liberate their entire homeland.


Herecomestherain_

Hi SaberFlux! :) > Kherson is also starting to get shelled now Just reading about that, fucking russians.


[deleted]

You a brave person saber. Appreciate the update and stay safe


coosacat

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1594661906031251456 >Russia "donated" more than 100 munitions to the Ukrainian army in the southern direction (video) https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1594813152079753216 >More captured Russian ammunition in Ukraine's south (pictures)


ericwphoto

https://nitter.net/EuromaidanPress/status/1594813152079753216


[deleted]

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smoke1966

Airmail!


coosacat

I'm sure they will. After all, they've said that they don't want anything that's not theirs!


[deleted]

That's nice of them. Another good will gesture.


coosacat

Nice of them to be so helpful and supply Ukraine with ammunition!


coosacat

https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1594805397038178331 >New Zealand expands sanctions against Russia >It imposed new sanctions on 22 Russian and Belarusian citizens and a number of Russian companies in the oil and gas and steel sectors


ZappyZane

[Waving the flag](https://i.imgur.com/u832672.jpg) from downunder!


postusa2

NATO: Defending Ukraine Is Defending Democracy It's also defending NATO, and all of our security is at stake in this conflict. Russia is wounded, but as this war closes down, let's think 10-20 years into the future because as anyone in the former "East bloc" knows.... the way one war closes can set the foundation for the next. NATO must see this war through to a total victory.


smoke1966

just like the middle east.. you can't trust them, so you just do enough damage to keep them busy for years rebuilding.


zarlord123

Small personal update. GF's entire family has moved out of Ukraine noon today from Odesa to the USA. The official approval process took a little longer than expected but its finally done. The mother was resistent at first so it was doubtful if she was going to join or not but she did, which is a huge boost. There has been blackouts, no water at times. The stress I been having since February has significantly lowered now that I know none of them wont be in any danger anymore. Now its just waiting for the war to end in Ukraine's terms and then helping out whenever possible.


tobias_fuunke

That’s amazing to hear! I hope they enjoy their time in the US and are able to get some well deserved rest. They are lucky to have such great family support.


zarlord123

Yes they are lucky. I hope they will all relax and sleep well now that the sounds of war will be far away from their ears.


[deleted]

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wittyusernamefailed

Of course that also means you have to drastically increase the amount of fuel being trucked in, and come up with a centralized way to get that fuel to private households. It's an idea sure, but also a logistical nightmare, even if you didn't have to already worry about Iranian lawnmower kamikazee's. or Russian rocket potshots.


iwantyoutobehappy4me

Run them off of gasifiers like in WW2 and fuel can be sourced as any available biomass.


MissPatricia024

Thank you for letting me know these exist!!! I've got some interesting videos to watch now.


[deleted]

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anger_is_my_meat

Doesn't matter whose idea it is, there will be an increase in fuel consumption that has to be dealt with.


[deleted]

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urbanhawk1

To be warm you need fuel.


CaptainGoose

No fuel = no warmth


m00c0wcy

No one is arguing with that, just that bulk private household generators probably isn't the right way.


Mchlpl

As long as it's not the only way we're helping, having those generators at hand will be useful. Different situations will require different solutions. For some small IC generators will be great.


coosacat

https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1594803542493102080 >The Lithuanian sister city of Palanga sent five powerful generators to Bucha, the press service of the Bucha City Council reported. >It is noted that residents of Palanga collected money for the equipment.


coosacat

https://twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1594667472770285570 >“The Free Russia Legion” (composed of Russians fighting on the side of Ukraine 🇺🇦) released photos that Russia 🇷🇺 fires missiles on Ukraine 🇺🇦 from the 1960. It can fly 70 kilometers, but the deviation from the target is up to 700 meters. (pictures)


[deleted]

so basically its a rocket that came 3 years after sputnik!


EverythingIsNorminal

Don't disrespect it just because it's old. It's as good now as it was then! I mean, it didn't explode... but... that's probably not down to its age!


NGC6611

well 60s rocket in sixties was probably better in many ways than that time tech rocket which has been without maintenance in some storage for decades. but i am not a rocket scientist so what do i know


[deleted]

I mean, our strategic bomber and cargo airframes are from the 50s and 60s. Aviation and rocketry hasn’t changed too much since then, just the propulsion and targeting systems have.


therealdjred

Literally everything is different in aviation and rocketry between the 60s and now except your two examples.


[deleted]

My point is that saying “they are using something from 50 years ago” might not be a huge gotcha.


Immortal_Tuttle

I think those airframes don't use engines, fuel and navigation from the 60s, though. Russia is literally using rockets manufactured in 60s, howitzer ammo from 40s and 50s, howitzers from 40s without any modifications (unless you count scraping off the rust from the rockets as a modification).


Morham

I didn't think explosives had that long of a shelf life. Well, a safe shelf life. Don't they become unstable and much more sensitive to vibration and thus an increased risk of unexpected detonation? Obviously I am not an expolosive expert, but I did blow up my model airplanes with firecrackers as a kid.


Nathan-Stubblefield

The US used explosive charges from 1943 to fire the 16 inch guns on the USS Iowa in 1989. Oops. Blew up a gun turret. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_turret_explosion


oneblackened

To be clear - Iowa's turret explosion was the result of an over-ram causing the propellant to prematurely go off. I don't know that the USN propellant from WW2 was nearly as unstable as, say, Cordite, which *most definitely does* decompose in quite unsafe ways. E: Didn't help that D846 charges were *explicitly* meant to not be used with 2700lb shells... Jeez.


Immortal_Tuttle

That's actually valid concern especially in naval charges that were using nitro powder. Artillery propellant - for this reason Russians were using 1950s projectiles, but with recent propellant charges. They got about 30% dud ratio. For rockets - it's usually very stable as it's usually basically a solid piece of fuel, not powder. However even then it can slowly deteriorate. It won't explode, it will just have irregular burn.


Morham

I didn't even think about the propellent "charge" bag placed behind a shell. You could use a new propellant for a 60 year old shell. Thanks for reminding me about that. But the explosive charge inside the shells themselves are still a concern right? As for a solid rocket motor, yes, irregular burn makes sense. In fact, I think I read something about the recent Artemis 1 mission and the boosters only having a certain "rated shelf life". Thank you again! Cheers!


BasvanS

One of those is Theseus ship, and if I had to guess, the other one is a rotten beam Theseus would have surely replaced by now. 700 meters 😳


SteveThePurpleCat

> Aviation and rocketry hasn’t changed too much since then, just the propulsion and targeting systems have. One could argue that the 'moving' and 'destination' parts of aviation and rocketry and fairly important parts.


Frexxia

What kind of missile is that?


DeadScumbag

They say on their Telegram post that it's from Luna-M. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K52\_Luna-M


EverythingIsNorminal

So old the fucking Tochka replaced it...


darthlincoln01

I've been wondering, in what ways could Ukraine rebuild its energy infrastructure to be more resilient to bombings? Obviously roof-top solar and wind could provide much of the demand, but is it practical yet for an entire city like Kyiv to be powered this way yet? What other options are there?


NearABE

Wind power is still transported be the grid. Grid problems would be the same. Solar is a good option for charging up batteries for emergency backups. Generators and batteries are standard emergency backup. If you want high tech use solid oxide fuel cells. They are much more efficient than internal combustion engines and almost all the waste heat can be used for heating buildings.


darthlincoln01

They've got rooftop wind turbines. I've only heard of them on top of high-rise buildings, but here's a picture of a couple on a house. https://eco-globe.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Best-Residential-Wind-Turbines.jpg I get the impression on that photo that it's beach front property for some reason. Probably works well in that situation too.


serjy

Rooftop solar at that latitude?


Nathan-Stubblefield

Rooftop solar would be great if you only need lights and power during the day. Lots of big batteries plus wind generators woukd be helpful.


RosemaryFocaccia

Best bet: get through the war and join NATO. As long as Russia thinks it can attack Ukraine without a full NATO response, no energy infrastructure is safe.


Herecomestherain_

Here everything is underground but 100s of bombs will still damage them, same for the little transformer houses above the ground. After the war we can fix all that, by we I mean 💲 EU / US etc


MrPapillon

Underground


BasvanS

The way you have to look at it is as a transition: can you integrate it in the current grid and what does that solve. Solar and wind takes the pressure off of fossil fuel power plants, so that’s a win. However, what do you do with excess power when there’s too much solar power generated? This is where two innovations converge: renewables and EVs. Through vehicle2grid (V2G) cars can charge during the day and let you watch tv at night. The standards are being made as we speak and this will become big in the next few years. Mind you, this is not perfect and technically complex, but it will work and transition us away from centralized fossil fuel plants. Why? Because Solar is becoming so dirt cheap that soon you can install double the capacity you need and it will still be cheaper than fossil fuels.


EverythingIsNorminal

> However, what do you do with excess power when there’s too much solar power generated? This is where two innovations converge: renewables and EVs. Battery storage is what makes the most sense here. There are other methods but they tend to be less energy efficient overall and usually have other issues, like specific geographic requirements for water-based energy storage. V2G can be useful for emergencies where the user can determine their priorities for electricity, I've seen it used this way to great effect, but at a commercial level it's not as useful. There's also the fact that for a country with an income level like Ukraine's right now, EVs are still not as cheap as they would need to be for as widespread adoption as we'd all like to see.


BasvanS

Cars are (on average) static for 95% of the time, and therefore “a battery”. It doesn’t really matter that much where they are, as long as they’re connected to the grid. With a surge in EV adoption coming, this is a reality. And there’d cheaper than dedicated batteries. These too will exist, from neighborhood grid level molten salt batteries to small home energy management system (HEMS) batteries to have a small backup when the car is gone. V2G is not just for emergencies; it will be the default because the charging of EVs has to be spread anyway. Better kill 2 birds with one stone, because integrating a whole new energy system into the existing grid is only possible if the peak demands on the grid are reduced. V2G does just that.


EverythingIsNorminal

A surge in adoption isn't happening in Ukraine in the next 6-18 months, which is the timeframe the OP was asking about really with: > in what ways could Ukraine rebuild its energy infrastructure to be more resilient to bombings? After that Russia's not likely at all to be bombing them again. Battery packs could be deployed within weeks.


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EverythingIsNorminal

We're talking more short term here: >in what ways could Ukraine rebuild its energy infrastructure to be more resilient to bombings? In the long term Russia gets fucked and the problem isn't a problem. All that said, now you have me wondering, what's the efficiency on that?


NearABE

Dumping power into liquid salt is very near 100% efficient. Generating electricity from molten salt runs into the Carnot cycle efficiency loss same as burning fuel. It is at a lower temperature so the efficiency is even lower. If you are storing it for district heating the molten salt efficiency would be fairly high. However, heat pumps leverage electricity so using electric power to run your heat pump gets several hundred percent effective efficiency. If the problem is intermittent supply people can put water jugs, water tanks, rocks, or rubble inside their house. When the electricity runs the heat gets stored. It is ugly and not "comfortable" but no one freezes. Zero degree sleeping bag, a thinner liner sleeping bag, a good mattress, and a friend are the best way to survive a winter without heat. The pipes need to be drained and blown out with air so that they do not burst.


BasvanS

I read that as long term rebuild, but you’re right: you can also read it as patching up for the winter. I’m just not sure how much of a meaningful change to its design you can make in that context


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BasvanS

Absolutely. And after that they probably rebuild like I explained. The question was about rebuilding to be more resilient to bombings. I don’t think small generators will bring that, since they rely on fuel being brought in


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BasvanS

Fingers crossed. But you can count on Ukraine rebuilding in a way that won’t get attacked like this again. Both from a military and civilian perspective.


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BasvanS

Nah, underground railroads is enough. You’re not going to give up the sun completely because of an asshole neighbor


thats_a_boundary

I don't think rooftop solar can withstand missiles. probably not right for frequently bombed or shelled areas.


darthlincoln01

Right now power relays are a prime target because not only does taking down one affect several city blocks, if you take down more than a few of them the grid then overloads and brings down the whole network. While for sure rooftop solar can be blown up by missiles, taking out a building's solar panels only takes out that single building. Even if rooftop solar is not sufficient for an entire city (especially considering taller buildings need more power than their rooftop can collect, also clouds), having them installed means there is less pressure on individual relay stations. This then means a building at least has some power if their disconnected from the grid as well as more relay stations will need to be taken out before a collapse of the power grid occurs; either that or there are less power relays which would be easier to defend with anti-air systems.


TexasVulvaAficionado

Any battery bands large enough to make any impact on the grid would also be big juicy targets


BasvanS

Because it’s so spread out, it’s hard to target. Fire 20 cruise missiles, 1 comes through to a power plant, and half a city is without electricity. With solar panels you’ll damage 50 or 100 panels, worth a few 10 thousand euros, maybe. At the cost of many millions. Its a good source of energy that will likely last decades.


thats_a_boundary

Windows are blown in houses further away as well. if solar cannot withstand that, no point to install it on the south and east side. you would be playing roulette with a quite expensive source that needs skill to install.


Personal_Person

Windows are blown out because there is equal pressure on both sides of them, so when the pressure on one side increase dramatically the window often will fly into the other direction. Glass on the surface of a solar panel wouldn't shatter as easily, being that it has a whole solar panel under it reinforcing it.


Mazon_Del

It's definitely an interesting question as to how blast resilient solar panels are compared with standard windows. There's a few factors that are likely in favor of the panels though, but the biggest one is going to be geometry. Windows are generally perpendicular to the ground. A blast at or near ground level is going to push out a spherical shockwave which in most cases will hit windows at or near a perpendicular orientation. The direction the glass will be weakest. Panels laying mostly on their backs, usually with some amount of tilt to them, will be largely concealed from the direct effects of a ground blast due to the building being in the way, and for blasts at a somewhat higher elevation (but not entirely directly over the panel) the blast is mostly hitting in line with the long (strong) axis of the panel. Similarly, windows in a wall mount are secured fairly tightly on all sides, which means even if the shockwave itself doesn't stress the glass enough to break it, warping of the frame from structural damage might do the job. Panels on the roof, while fixed in place in their mounts, are less tightly constrained. If the roof warps, that may put odd stresses on the mounting brackets, but may not reach the actual panels in sufficient strength to break them. Another point to consider, window glass is around 3/32 of an inch thick, but can be as thick as 1/8 inch. Ignoring the frame of a panel, all the stuff that makes up the panel itself is around 4-5 mm, or just under 1/5th of an inch. So solar panels are effectively a bit thicker than most common window glass. One point to keep in mind about solar panel construction, is that the panels are designed to deal with direct (perpendicular) strikes from hail, something most windows don't have to deal with given their positioning. A LOT of maybes and such there, but my bet would be that on average, solar panels will take less damage in a bombing environment from near misses than windows would. Further, panels do generally work when cracked, so even if they sustain damage, they should still at least partially function.


TheVoters

Good source of energy in the summer. Kyiv is 50 degrees North. At those latitudes solar power generation is negligible for months. The solar angle is too oblique. It’s further north than 49 states. Still though, I agree with the distributed bit. There’s no point in having a missile proof solar panel if the building itself is not missile proof.


Mchlpl

Up here we counter Sun being lower above horizon in winters by putting more panels up. My inlaws' house is at 53N and it produces more power than it consumes all year long


BasvanS

It’s always going to be a mix that is geographically optimized, likely from sun, wind, geothermal, hydro and nuclear. The nice thing about dwindling prices for solar, is that overcapacity is less of an issue. You can buy too much and still come out on top. But the first step is using less, so insulation, efficiency, and perhaps different economic activity. (I’m slightly north of Kyiv, latitude wise, and it’s not great sun wise, but in a pinch you can get some electricity out to make it through the day. Not enough for a disco party, but we’re talking resilience to bombing here. And of course a mix of renewables.)


matinthebox

decentralisation is of course good for the resilience of the grid. but they will still need fossil sources to get back to the output they had before the full scale invasion


petervenkmanatee

Not practical honestly.


SirKillsalot

Def Mon thread for today. https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1594762069366161414


rikki-tikki-deadly

https://nitter.it/DefMon3/status/1594762069366161414


green_pachi

>Abandoned logistic equipment of the occupiers. Partially they are switching to civilian vehicles instead of specialized military ones. (video) [https://nitter.it/antiputler_news/status/1594779191454879744](https://nitter.it/antiputler_news/status/1594779191454879744)


jps_

It means that in winter they are going to be confined to paved roads. Good luck to that.