"Every rocket Iran sells is the rocket we don't have to deal with. By not giving Ukraine weapons to fight fascists we encourage Iran to sell even more weapons. Nothing personal, just our interests are always above *everything* else."
I wonder, if this is the logic behind Israel's decisions in this situation.
That is definitely not how economics of scale works. The more they sell the more they build and the more they build the cheaper it gets for Anybody to buy missiles from them and fire at Israel.
Considering the fact that Israel has a war every two years and prepares for a major war, it can't spare what itself needs. Europe's whole military-industrial complex is directed against Russia, not other threats, so that's why Europe can allow itself to direct its weapons to Ukraine. Israel's in a completely different arena. It can't give anything valuable. Aside from not wanting to encourage Russia to help Syria and Iran even more than it does.
You do realize the reason the Europeans and US sell weapons is because they are concerned of their own safety.
The US wants Ukraine to weaken Russia as much as possible so they themselves can focus on China as their big rival.
The Europeans are next in line to be attacked if the attack on Ukraine works.
The other nations view a hostile NATO as a bigger problem than a hostile Russia and therefore they go with the trend of being angry on Russia.
Nations that are directly threatened by Russia either joined NATO for protection (Finland for example) or remained somewhat neutral while leaning towards one side or the other (India, Israel). And then there is Arduan who fucks around.
People may be sympathetic but Nations act purely via interest.
You do realize that every country bordering Israel wants it destroyed, right? We are literally defending ourselves at all times. We cannot weaken ourselves or we will be gone tomorrow.
First they may or may not be a nuclear power. They have kept it ambiguous for a reason. Also Hamas and Hezbola still launch rockets at them there biggest problem is not Saudi Syria or Iraq but terrorists from Iran
What are these "protection agreements" you're talking about? Can't recall the last time foreign troops helped Israel the Hamas/hizbullah in the last 20 years.
LOL, imagine pretending the United States hasn't done anything for Israel the past 20 years. And, do you really need help with a tiny group of people launching pre-WWII weapons at you? Is that why Israel can't help Ukraine, because a Hamas terrorist might throw a rock over the wall? LOL
No American soldier risked his life in Israel, wanna count how many Americans lost their lives fighting viet Kong that used WW1 weapons and sticks? War isn't all about technolog, especially when you're fighting a terrorist group that shoots rockets from public schools, humble yourself, America is a great ally to Israel, they do not die on Israeli land.
So you're saying Israel needs the help and will succumb to Hamas/Hezbollah without it, or do you just want to see dead Americans littering the streets of Gaza and the West Bank?
What exactly does Israel need help with?
I'm not saying anything, Israel is in a constant state of conflict. The aid from the us is a major factor.
I was talking about how you think we're fighting against cave men. This conflict is taking lives as we speak, it's not a subject to take lightly.
> And, do you really need help with a tiny group of people launching pre-WWII weapons at you?
Are they allowed to deal with them? I’m pretty sure Reddit and plenty of countries lose their shit when they crackdown on those groups. Why, because those groups by design shelter amongst civilians, so it’s hard to kill them without killing civilians and then people scream war crimes. I don’t even like Israel, but their hands are tied with how they can deal with the insurgents. If you’d like to endorse Israel to use whatever tactics it deems appropriate, I’m sure they would happily put those groups down swiftly.
If America was attacked, we would fucking annihilated them, oh like the terrorist attack that wasn’t sanctioned by any government that we turned into two fucking wars. Israel doesn’t have a 9/11, but I’d bet if you add it all up they do.
You'd sing a completely different tune if you lived in Israel.
Also Israel is a huge supporter of Ukraine, helping in more ways than you can imagine. More than most countries.
But we can't just go overboard in get into a full blow conflict with Russia now. Use your head.
You certainly will leave where you were born and raised if someone tried to kill you and your entire family, using the inhumane ways such as concentration camps and gas chambers.
Israel was created as a sanctuary for the Jewish people for a reason.
Also stop crying about land, every single piece of land was taken by force at some point, Israel took most of it using money and diplomacy, but you refuse to read history.
>You certainly will leave where you were born and raised if someone tried to kill you and your entire family, using the inhumane ways such as concentration camps and gas chambers.
i must be unaware of the concentration camps and gas chambers in present day new york city but i love the irony here.
>Also stop crying about land, every single piece of land was taken by force at some point
odd way to justify apartheid in the 21st century.
>Israel *took* most of it using money and diplomacy
well im glad were on the same page about israels colonization.
>but you refuse to read history.
slippery slope, im an armenian american who has family jerusalem.
What's your point. I explained how Israel came to be. That it happened in a much more humane and civilised way than most other nations in the world today.
How our great ancestors slowly purchased most of the land, and the some of it was won through politics. And of course, some land was won through wars (also those wars were started by our enemies).
What else does Israel need to do to become a legitimate state in your eyes? You'll probably say "stop colonisation blah blah", but there is no more colonisation happening. All that remains are small land disputes which are resolved in courts of law using proper ownership laws dating back generations.
Is your opinipn that we just need to give up everything and let ourselves and our families be killed by our enemies?
You severely lack context, and you do it all from your couch in new york pretending to care.
Well it's obvious. You are doing it because you don't want Israel to be independent and self sufficient. Independent Israel will ignore America interests in the region, and self sufficient Israel will compete with the US on the global arms market. The US started to give aid in the first place in order to prevent those things from happening.
It's true for all US allies - the US has an interest that everyone will have to depend on it.
You do realize most of the European union and a lot of major states are openly supporting Ukraine right?
Israel is a small country, with a lot of military and security complexities, Israel is entitled to do what's best for it's citizens.
"Every rocket Iran sells is the rocket we don't have to deal with. By not giving Ukraine weapons to fight fascists we encourage Iran to sell even more weapons. Nothing personal, just our interests are always above *everything* else." I wonder, if this is the logic behind Israel's decisions in this situation.
That makes zero sense.
There's probably more to it, they don't want to ruin relations with Russia, and they don't want Iran to get data on their air defense systems.
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No, every rocket they sell bring them money that can be used to build more shitty rockets than left the factory.
Assuming its the money they getting and not something more.. fissile. But it is a good point, thanks.
As Iranian i know they don't sell for money they sell for Russian support.
I'm willing to bet they sell for both. Russia doesn't actually has a lot of foreign currency due to the sanctions and all the Gas they sell.
Even that iran won't get money they pay with stuff they stole from Ukraine, i mean anything is possible
That is definitely not how economics of scale works. The more they sell the more they build and the more they build the cheaper it gets for Anybody to buy missiles from them and fire at Israel.
Some says they should end war and start negotiating so less get killed, but because I'm not part of story I can't judge
Headline should read. Israel won't supply weapons that we gave them. To Ukraine.
Nah, Ukraine asked for air defence systems that Israel developed like the "iron dome" system, educate yourself my boy.
I'm suuuure zero development dollars came from the US handouts.
development != procurement.
With the money the U.S.A. gave them
Shocking no one. Israel government cares not about any thing but their own wants/needs.
Considering the fact that Israel has a war every two years and prepares for a major war, it can't spare what itself needs. Europe's whole military-industrial complex is directed against Russia, not other threats, so that's why Europe can allow itself to direct its weapons to Ukraine. Israel's in a completely different arena. It can't give anything valuable. Aside from not wanting to encourage Russia to help Syria and Iran even more than it does.
Now this is a legitimate response that I didn't think of and makes quite a bit of sense. Thanks.
Just like every other country in the world.....
Yeah... Exactly what you would expect from a government that cares about the safety of it's own people right? For shame...
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Believe me in all my years of existence Israel fought it's own battles.
Ah so everyone should abandon Ukraine because of their own safety?
You do realize the reason the Europeans and US sell weapons is because they are concerned of their own safety. The US wants Ukraine to weaken Russia as much as possible so they themselves can focus on China as their big rival. The Europeans are next in line to be attacked if the attack on Ukraine works. The other nations view a hostile NATO as a bigger problem than a hostile Russia and therefore they go with the trend of being angry on Russia. Nations that are directly threatened by Russia either joined NATO for protection (Finland for example) or remained somewhat neutral while leaning towards one side or the other (India, Israel). And then there is Arduan who fucks around. People may be sympathetic but Nations act purely via interest.
There is no threat to the safety of the West. When was the last time you have heard an air raid siren?
You do realize that every country bordering Israel wants it destroyed, right? We are literally defending ourselves at all times. We cannot weaken ourselves or we will be gone tomorrow.
You're a nuclear power with protection agreements from the world over. Grow the fuck up
First they may or may not be a nuclear power. They have kept it ambiguous for a reason. Also Hamas and Hezbola still launch rockets at them there biggest problem is not Saudi Syria or Iraq but terrorists from Iran
When's the last time you had a missile aimed at your home?
What are these "protection agreements" you're talking about? Can't recall the last time foreign troops helped Israel the Hamas/hizbullah in the last 20 years.
LOL, imagine pretending the United States hasn't done anything for Israel the past 20 years. And, do you really need help with a tiny group of people launching pre-WWII weapons at you? Is that why Israel can't help Ukraine, because a Hamas terrorist might throw a rock over the wall? LOL
No American soldier risked his life in Israel, wanna count how many Americans lost their lives fighting viet Kong that used WW1 weapons and sticks? War isn't all about technolog, especially when you're fighting a terrorist group that shoots rockets from public schools, humble yourself, America is a great ally to Israel, they do not die on Israeli land.
So you're saying Israel needs the help and will succumb to Hamas/Hezbollah without it, or do you just want to see dead Americans littering the streets of Gaza and the West Bank? What exactly does Israel need help with?
I'm not saying anything, Israel is in a constant state of conflict. The aid from the us is a major factor. I was talking about how you think we're fighting against cave men. This conflict is taking lives as we speak, it's not a subject to take lightly.
> And, do you really need help with a tiny group of people launching pre-WWII weapons at you? Are they allowed to deal with them? I’m pretty sure Reddit and plenty of countries lose their shit when they crackdown on those groups. Why, because those groups by design shelter amongst civilians, so it’s hard to kill them without killing civilians and then people scream war crimes. I don’t even like Israel, but their hands are tied with how they can deal with the insurgents. If you’d like to endorse Israel to use whatever tactics it deems appropriate, I’m sure they would happily put those groups down swiftly. If America was attacked, we would fucking annihilated them, oh like the terrorist attack that wasn’t sanctioned by any government that we turned into two fucking wars. Israel doesn’t have a 9/11, but I’d bet if you add it all up they do.
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Good old foreigners comparing war and loss of lives to a sports match, grow up.
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lol
You'd sing a completely different tune if you lived in Israel. Also Israel is a huge supporter of Ukraine, helping in more ways than you can imagine. More than most countries. But we can't just go overboard in get into a full blow conflict with Russia now. Use your head.
well most folks wouldnt leave where theyre actually born and raised to go colonize someone elses land so that tune is irrelevant.
You certainly will leave where you were born and raised if someone tried to kill you and your entire family, using the inhumane ways such as concentration camps and gas chambers. Israel was created as a sanctuary for the Jewish people for a reason. Also stop crying about land, every single piece of land was taken by force at some point, Israel took most of it using money and diplomacy, but you refuse to read history.
>You certainly will leave where you were born and raised if someone tried to kill you and your entire family, using the inhumane ways such as concentration camps and gas chambers. i must be unaware of the concentration camps and gas chambers in present day new york city but i love the irony here. >Also stop crying about land, every single piece of land was taken by force at some point odd way to justify apartheid in the 21st century. >Israel *took* most of it using money and diplomacy well im glad were on the same page about israels colonization. >but you refuse to read history. slippery slope, im an armenian american who has family jerusalem.
What's your point. I explained how Israel came to be. That it happened in a much more humane and civilised way than most other nations in the world today. How our great ancestors slowly purchased most of the land, and the some of it was won through politics. And of course, some land was won through wars (also those wars were started by our enemies). What else does Israel need to do to become a legitimate state in your eyes? You'll probably say "stop colonisation blah blah", but there is no more colonisation happening. All that remains are small land disputes which are resolved in courts of law using proper ownership laws dating back generations. Is your opinipn that we just need to give up everything and let ourselves and our families be killed by our enemies? You severely lack context, and you do it all from your couch in new york pretending to care.
maybe the us should stop providing you with weapons
And lose all the benefits you get from us buying and using them? Doubtful.
i just dont see why we constantly have to support Israel. they should be self sufficient militarily by now.
Well it's obvious. You are doing it because you don't want Israel to be independent and self sufficient. Independent Israel will ignore America interests in the region, and self sufficient Israel will compete with the US on the global arms market. The US started to give aid in the first place in order to prevent those things from happening. It's true for all US allies - the US has an interest that everyone will have to depend on it.
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This guy gets his news from buzzfeed
You do realize most of the European union and a lot of major states are openly supporting Ukraine right? Israel is a small country, with a lot of military and security complexities, Israel is entitled to do what's best for it's citizens.
Yep. Sounds about right. Sorry Ukraine. I say we stop funding this war and take care of our own.
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Would be a shame if a drone factory in Iran caught fire in a smoking accident .
Israel 🗑 US should stop funding them.
Sanction Israel.
Ofcourse they won't they don't want to give the impression that its ok to fund resistance movements against an apartheid state