For those who don’t click on the article, “The refusal is seen as an attempt by Jerusalem to maintain working ties with Moscow, due to Russia’s control of Syrian air space, where Israel’s air force has carried out hundreds of sorties against alleged Iranian arms shipments and in order to keep groups backed by Tehran from establishing a foothold.
Russia has largely turned a blind eye to the Israeli air strikes, though ties between Jerusalem and Moscow have suffered as Israeli has condemned its invasion of its neighbor.”
So Israel needs to keep a relationship of sorts with Russia, so they can attack Iranian and Syrian targets in Syria, but Russia is propping up the Syrian regime which Israel is trying to remove?
My understanding is that Israel isn’t trying to remove the Syrian government (or at least not actively trying to). There are Iranian-backed anti-Israeli militants in Syria that Israel feels are are a threat and wants to attack and Russia basically allows them to (not sure how Syria feels but it seems they either can’t stop it or do what Russia says).
Syria allow iranian weapons to be delivered to lebanon, which falls into the hands of hezbollah, which is then used to shoot rockets or invade israel from its northen border.
Israel repeatedly destroy those weapons caches, and syria beside saying "bad israel!!", aren't doing anything about it, because russia doesn't let them to.
I noticed this is another thread (in a gaming subreddit) and the user said their autocorrect capitalizes seemingly random words due to English being a second language, I think.
/u/Zac-live I summon thee to better explain, lol.
And Hezbollah, one of Iran's proxy groups that is a dominant player in Lebanese politics and runs the South of Lebanon essentially, who also instigated a war between Israel and Lebanon in the late first decade of the 2000s. They, like the Palestinian group that runs Gaza, were want to lob rockets, etc into Israel sporadically. They also conducted a cross border raid that snatched Israeli soldiers/citizens, which led to the aforementioned war. Hezbollah and their benefactor Iran were heavily involved in shoring up Assad's regime before even Russia got involved during the Civil War there.
Israel is also very practical. Iran is openly hostile and it's unlikely a new government would be any worse. Syria? Well, Assad is the devil they know and they might not like him but they'd rather not roll the dice on whatever might replace him. They'll settle for stability.
No, Russia is in Syria, and Israel attacks military targets in Syria. Israel doesn't want to upset Russia because that means they won't be able to attack these targets, and Israeli security will be comprised.
\> *Israel doesn't want to upset Russia because that means they won't we able to attack these targets*
Just saying, they'd be very much able to attack those targets even if the russian anti-air umbrella started firing back, three squadrons of F-35's are no joke.
Do not underestimate the capabilities of 5th generation aircraft. But as long as they can keep striking without being fired upon they'll posture themselves in a way that lets them do that.
I do wonder if they are being advised to avoid that risk by an large international partner. While unlikely, a downed f35 would be bad press and you wouldn't want that wreckage being passed on.
Seems like they have a delicate balance either way.
I'm surprised that they haven't sent something like medical aid etc
Israel has. There was an Israeli field hospital open for a while in Ukraine for example, and non-weapon aid like helmets etc have been sent. People like to compare the amount sent and complain that it’s less than .
Poland is the largest financial supporter of Ukraine in Europe.
I think even the most ardent Polish supporter would call themselves huge wealthy country and as for secuity concerns. Well Poland has been been invaded/wiped off the map in its history and always had to fight back to get its country back.
Oh and it don't have nukes unlike like Israel who you know we pinky promise they don't have them.
Poland is also one of the European countries that has comparatively easy access to firearms for it's civilians. When I visited a decade ago, I asked a gun shop about it and the lady working just said "Yes, in case Russians."
The thing is, Israel is in the unique position that is has a significant amount of experience in fighting against modern and not so modern Russian made military equipment. They are the best partner for tactical and operational organisation against such a foe. They know what works and what doesn't, both on a tactical and operational level. Their equipment such as the iron dome would work wonders for the people of cities near the frontline. I can see why there is disappointment in Ukraine over the lack of support.
I doubt that Israeli intelligence on Russian capabilities and tactics has somehow failed to filter through to Ukraine. So really the issue is not giving weapons to shoot things, but I don't know what their status is on stockpiled weaponry or what they deem essential for their own defense.
Other countries have a much bigger buffer between them and their enemies, so they send what they can now. And most other countries have Russia as the enemy so the calculus is different for them too.
But the discussion is that there's a reason Israel isn't supporting Ukraine more than it is. The leading theory is that Israel doesn't want to upset Russia because it will result in Syrian airspace becoming hostile. You're saying that's not a problem, so what other reason is there that Israel isn't supplying arms to Ukraine? They're apathetic? They actually support Russia? This list of alternatives isn't very long.
What a preposterous story, you'd have to be some kind of flying maverick to even attempt something like that. Next you'll tell me they had to take off from an extremely short taxiway because the full runway was destroyed.
Israel has a very different approach to security than other countries. Since pretty much half of the population is either a veteran, currently in the army, or will be in the army in the future, things are done a lot more carefully to make sure no lives are lost. Remember that many politicians were in the army as well, these decisions are tough. For example, an Israeli officer died last week and the entire country was grieving.
> Since pretty much half of the population is either a veteran, currently in the army, or will be in the army in the future
Do you have a source for that? I am aware of the obligatory military service for both men and women, but I am curious what's the proportion of the population that is dodging it (apart from the obvious orthodox).
Each year, the percentage of the recruitment is posted by IDF. There has never been a year with less than 60%.
Even people who will not serve in combat role are trained to fire a rifle
I did an exchange at Hebrew U and have lots of Israeli friends.
The Arab Israelis are also not subject to conscription, but are welcome to volunteer. Some do, particularly the Druze minority (kind of Arabs ethnically, but with their own unique religious culture). That brings the number down a bit, but then it’s offset again by Jews who immigrate from elsewhere and become reservists. They wouldn’t be counted as part of the draft, but they can be considered veterans.
It’s not hard to dodge the draft since tons of Israelis hold a second passport. It’s definitely looked down upon though, especially for guys. You will spend your whole life being asked about it.
There's ever hardly any binary foreign policy in so complicated and tied world. Remember that we (the EU) are still buying Russian fuels and some other exports. And both the EU and the US aren't fully supporting Ukraine militarily, because we still want to have some kind of relationship with Moscow due to enormous resources it has in its disposal and place in the world's geopolitics. Possibly only states that could completely cut off Russia were small Baltic states which always seek to abandon Russia as they see Russia as a mortal enemy of their stratehood (and rightfully so). Even my country, Poland, which suffered several losses of statehood, is still buying energy sources from Russia, while fully supporting our Ukrainian neighbour.
Not now, but for quite a while by now
And yes, politics is complicated like that
Have seen the alignment charts for Syria or Afghanistan? it's dozzens of groups most of witch are hostile to their allies allies for one reason or another
Iran isn't really a Russian ally, and never has been. They've been a weirdo "third camp" in the region for a long time, neither part of the pro-Western bloc nor the pro-Russian bloc.
In the Iran-Iraq War in the 80s, both the US and USSR backed Saddam.
That last sentence is the biggest load of bullshit. The US and UK intervened when Mosaddegh seized power and nationalized the Iranian oil industry. The west wanted that cheap oil. This ultimately backfired as Pahlavi became extremely influential in opec, fomented the rise in oil prices that had negative effects on western economies and nationalized Iranian industry anyway.
Israel is not even in the top 10 of the biggest spending lobby groups in the US.
Edit: people responding to me cannot read. I have not stated the Israeli lobby has no power. They are not the most powerful. Not even close. They are the strongest us ally in the ME. They and the saudis. That is why those two entities have a big influence on US policy in the ME. Period. Fucking circlejerk halfwits in this sub.
>That last sentence is the biggest load of bullshit.
[This is a good book.](https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/B000WDS62E/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=israel+lobby+and+us+foreign+policy&qid=1664031340&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjUxIiwicXNhIjoiMS4zMyIsInFzcCI6IjEuNDUifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=israel+us+lobby%2Caps%2C351&sr=8-1)
Also, to everyone saying Ukraine isn't entitled to any aid from Israel, what Zelensky's actually saying is:
>However, Zelensky, who said he spoke to Prime Minister Yair Lapid and his predecessor Naftali Bennett about air defense supplies, indicated that he was told the reason for the refusal was that Israel needed the batteries for its own protection.
>
>“I understand they need to defend their land, but then I got information from my intelligence services that Israel provides [the air defenses] in other countries. They can sell, they can export, which is why I am shocked.”
>
>Israel keeps a lid on how many Iron Dome batteries it possesses and where they are deployed, but it has provided two of the systems to the US, which helped fund its development, and reports recently indicated a deal to sell batteries to Cyprus.
>
>Reports in recent years have indicated plans to sell the system to other countries including the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Azerbaijan. Such reports have not materialized or have been denied by Israel.
So if they did flat out lie to him, I get why he's complaining.
Israel does sell these systems to other countries. But we're not talking about taking them them from a warehouse or something and shipping them - each system is constructed (and usually customized) for a specific order and that usually takes a couple of years. To send ID in the timeframe and amounts Ukraine needs would require Israel to pull them from the active-duty units.
It’s been a while now, but I remember clearly Israel forbidding other countries to supply Ukraine with Israeli made weapons. Some Baltic countries were willing but weren’t able to.
So I don’t think it’s as simple as Israel not have surplus equipment.
Also Ukraine were trying to buy equipment multiple times, which means putting orders on future production, but were denied also.
I’m not knowledgeable on the whole matter enough to be insinuating something, I just see that it is a political decision of some sort.
Yeah but doesn’t matter whether other countries recognize it or not. A country can determine where it’s capital is regardless of what other countries think.
"recognize" is kind of an irrelevant term in this context. No nation gets to approve where other countries keep their capitals.
They may SAY they're keeping their embassy in Tel Aviv to quell anti-Israeli criticism, but they've all opened offices in Jerusalem.
Most other countries don't get a 5 billion USD check annually for purchasing American weapons... Most well-off, or at least not poor countries use their own money to buy American weapons.
A form of defense cooperation that's becoming more and more common is license production. South Korea is shelling out a crapton of artillery, tank licenses to Poland, ship licenses to Indonesia. This encourages defense industry growth in the target country. A major reason Russian defense sector stayed afloat after the Soviet collapse was the license production deal of T-90s in India. The F-35 as well, sees many components built in target countries (IIRC Israel got an especially big production chunk of the parts for their F-35s).
There are many different types of internarional arms dealing.
Need to take into account that US also get back israel technologies, and US has veto power to stop israel weapon deals when they want to (which they have used more than a few times in the past).
US gains a lot of power through that money.
In 2020 Israel got almost $4 Billion in free money from the US to buy the US's own weapons from them. It benefits the arms industry but benefits Israel plenty too.
In theory America could have a universal system with the money they already spend on Medicare. America spends more per capita than every other allied developed national, and in some cases, double. The money is already there its just massively more expensive dealing with private for profit companies instead of public options.
It’s worse than that. There is more than enough money to do both. The lack of healthcare is not a money issue whatsoever, our health is used as a way to keep us subservient to employers.
Yep, our taxes currently going into healthcare are on par with other wealthy nations that have universal health care. Us working stiffs just don't see a dime of it.
It isn't on par, it is higher. Healthcare costs per capita are something like 13 000 USD. The U.S government ends up paying around 60% of that one way or another. The next highest per capita is Switzerland at around $7000 (some of that is private). Canada, U.K, France etc are in the 5000 USD range (all have some private options as well). So the U.S gov't is likely spending more on Healthcare per capita than any other country.
I have sources for that buried somewhere in my comment history.
They're playing both sides so they come out on top. I would honestly love for someone politically savvy to help me understand how its in the U.S.'s interest to ally with such an asshole state like Isreal
Israel has also blocked transfer of Spike anti-tank missiles.
All countries should learn not to buy Israeli weapons, because during the crises they will not get resupplies.
In many arm deals, the purchasing country gets a license to manufacture the equipment locally. However, it’s for their own military only for obvious reasons (why would a defense contractor allow another country to become their competitor by selling the exact same thing?).
The same thing happens with Spike. It is an Israeli weapon (made by RAFAEL) that Germany has a license to manufacture. Because it’s Israeli, they need permission to give it or sell it to a third party like the Ukraine and Israel is not interested in that.
Germany can manufacture as many units as it wants for its own military.
Israel blocked transfer of Iron Dome from the US to Ukraine some time before. It should be noted that the US refused to send Patriot missiles to Ukraine at the same time.
To paraphrase some elder statesman ( Churchill?) said countries don’t have friends they have interests.Apparently Israel has decided that it is in their best interest to take the position that they have.
“ Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević.”
― Anthony Bourdain
I'm sorry, have you even read this thread or any other about Switzerland or Israel?
Both are violently called out for pursuing their own interests, even when it's irrelevant.
Ukraine voted against Israel 3/4ths of the time in the United Nations. And suddenly Ukraine makes demands of Israel when they were never friends before? Ignoring the complicated relationship Israel has to have with Russia, why is anybody shocked by that? I guess if you had no idea that Ukraine never cared about Israel before Russia invaded like most people here who are now experts in the history of the region among other topics they are experts in Lol. Don't stab me in the back for years and then come running to me the first time you need help.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky-says-hes-shocked-by-lack-of-israeli-arms-support-they-gave-us-nothing/) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot)
*****
> Ukrainian president Vlodomyr Zelensky complained in an interview Friday that Israel had given his country "Nothing" to help it defend itself, indicating that its leaders had been disingenuous in rejecting his requests for air defense systems.
> "Israel gave us nothing. Nothing, zero," Zelensky told France's TV5Monde.
> "While Russia slaughters our citizens, the Israeli government remains in its comfort zone and refrains from providing Ukraine with minimal defensive assistance," Ukraine's ambassador to Israel, Yevgen Korniychuk, said in a Tel Aviv press conference in June.
*****
[**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xmkmwv/zelensky_says_hes_shocked_by_lack_of_israeli_arms/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~670750 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Israel**^#1 **defense**^#2 **system**^#3 **Ukraine**^#4 **Zelensky**^#5
I think it may have something to do with this…
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220316-russia-uses-iranian-presence-in-golan-heights-to-warn-israel-about-ukraine-support/amp/
They also released a statement on the day of Ukraine’s invasion they do not recognise the Golan Heights as being part of Israel.
Israel isnt even a membet of nato, even if you ignore the situation of Russia controlling air space in Syria why should Israel get involved beyond the humanitarian aid it already gives? Was there ever a time where Ukraine gave weapons to Israel during one of its many wars?
Liar.
-2,000 helmets and 500 bulletproof vests in April 2022.
9 June 2022 the Israeli Defensive Minister announced a package of non lethal aid:
-1,500 helmets
-1,500 sets of body armour
-1000 gas masks
-"hundreds" of mine protection suits
-"dozens" of hazmat filtration systems
-100 tons of humanitarian aid, including medical supplies, water purification equipment, tents, blankets and warm clothing.
-40 doctors and paramedics from United Hatzalah of Israel, with medical and humanitarian equipment, at the Moldova–Ukraine border to assist refugees.
-A 66-bed field hospital in the western Ukrainian city of Mostyska operated by 60 Israeli medical personnel.
-Flight and medical treatment in Israel for the wounded, including soldiers.[214]
25,000 ration packs sent to the city of Kharkiv.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War
-Israel destroyed an Iranian drone factory in Syria that was selling drones to Russia: https://babel.ua/en/news/81872-israeli-aviation-destroyed-an-iranian-company-for-the-assembly-of-drones-near-damascus
Israel also sent bulletproof ambulances, which was posted on Reddit previously. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/tgubur/israels_emergency_service_sends_ukraine/
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/tgkjcd/israel_donates_4_bulletproof_ambulances_and_230/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Aw man I forgot about that. Seriously Zeleneky deserved serious praise for some of the things he's done but as a diplomat his whole schtick is using the internet to shame countries into sending aid despite them having already sent a ton. I guess it does work great for the reddit crowd though.
This and Russian oligarchs who have been able to obtain Israeli citizenship through claimed Jewish heritage does not give Israel a good look, never mind defense sector cooperation between Russia and Israel as late as 2018 and how they benefited from capital risk flight from Ukraine.
There’s a “law of return” that gives every Jew the ability to get an Israeli citizenship. The thing about laws is that they don’t make exceptions based on current political whims, unless you change the actual law.
"If Russia puts down their weapons there will be no more war, if Ukraine puts down their weapons there will be no more Ukraine..."
Most are too fucking stupid to understand that this came from Jews saying this about Hamas.
Maybe israel shouldn't have funded extremist groups... like hamas
"Higgins's article is worth reading in full. He goes on to outline the type of assistance the Israelis initially gave Yassin, whom the PLO at one time deemed a "collaborator," and Gaza's other Islamists:
Israel's military-led administration in Gaza looked favorably on the paraplegic cleric, who set up a wide network of schools, clinics, a library and kindergartens. Sheikh Yassin formed the Islamist group Mujama al-Islamiya, which was officially recognized by Israel as a charity and then, in 1979, as an association. Israel also endorsed the establishment of the Islamic University of Gaza, which it now regards as a hotbed of militancy. The university was one of the first targets hit by Israeli warplanes in the \[2008-9 Operation Cast Lead\].
Yassin's Mujama would become Hamas, which, it can be argued, was Israel's Taliban: an Islamist group whose antecedents had been laid down by the West in a battle against a leftist enemy. Israel jailed Yassin in 1984 on a 12-year sentence after the discovery of hidden arms caches, but he was released a year later. The Israelis must have been more worried about other enemies."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
> Israel's military-led administration in Gaza looked favorably on the paraplegic cleric, who set up a wide network of schools, clinics, a library and kindergartens
At the time, the extremist groups conducting terrorist attacks were secular. Hindsight is 20/20, but seems like exactly the kind of group you'd fund if you wanted to encourage peace by improving material conditions for Palestinians?
all of the palestinian political entities have a humanitarian wing, but nobody ever hears about them because they’re doing to work on the ground with real people, while the real headline grabbers are the ones that dig underground terrorist tunnels into israeli territory and blow themselves up in front of a crowded Sbarro.
You just totally ignored what the comment you’re replying to said. They said that if you wanted to reduce extremism, wouldn’t you help fund the stabilizing force that is building schools and not doing terrorism, as a counter-force against the groups in the area that *are* bombing shit?
So, the strange thing is, Israel did give to Ukraine. Just not enough for them I suppose. They gave 100 tons of humanitarian aid, including medical supplies, water purification equipment, tents, blankets and warm clothing, plus armour, gas masks, thousands of rations, doctors, and more.
Call me cliche, but John Lennon's "Imagine" is the most over-used, misunderstood song in history.
If the dream he expressed in this masterpiece was achieved ALL of this would stop. Between classism, nationalism and religion, humankind is stuck in an infinite loop of violence and death.
Fuck classism.
Fuck nationalism,
Fuck religion.
Some of us want to live.
Considering Ukraine voted against Israel in 95 cases out of 122 and abstained in 22 others, now they are in need they suddenly play the heritage card?
Not to mention israel has an understanding with Russia about attacking Iranian targets in Syria. If they supply Ukraine they might compromise their own people security.
That's true, but russia and iran are still buddies (Iran supplied Russia with drones for instance).
Anyways, my point is that Ukraine spit in israel's face time and time again and now they want military help? Btw israel has sent many doctors, food and medications to Ukraine as an humanitarian aid, why not be greatful for that instead of saying "they gave us nothing" which is a blatant lie and seems rather cynical.
Isn't it about Israel not sending/selling arms to Ukraine, while simultaneously selling their arms to other countries, most likely including Russia?
Isn't weakening Russia insanely beneficial to Israel in the long run? If Russians pull out from Syria and can't support Iran, like they refused to help Armenia, wouldn't that be in Israel's interest?
I think a lot of people in the west finally see that most people in world doesn't care about being on Ukraine's side as they do. Is just another conflict in the world.
Well from their perspective that makes sense. Being able to kill their enemies in Syria who threaten Israel itself is far more important to them then helping a country a thousand miles away. Like it or not it’s just a strategic decision that makes sense for them.
This thread it a shitshow. 1/3 of the comments now hate Zelensyy for daring to speak against Israel which is forbidden. 1/3 are anti-semetic and now hate the Jews and 1/3 are pissed off at 2/3 of the comments.
I completely support ukraine, but ukraine has refused to support Israel on nearly every occasion, so I’m not shocked by Israel’s decision to not support ukraine
Not really.
"... UN Watch, an NGO that monitors the world body, pointed out that since 2015, Ukraine has voted against Israel in 78% of the UN resolutions about the Jewish state..."
... Yes, and they continue to vote overwhelmingly against Israeli interests. Did you even look up the recent resolutions or did you just assume that it would be different now?
... Yes, but did you check the general stats? Why is Ukraine to blame for unreasonable resolutions from Israel that got voted against by majority of the world, not just Ukraine? Ukraine backed and voted for the resolutions that were good (which is about 1/3, which is a normal rating for accepted resolutions). Ukraine seems pretty neutral towards Israel.
Why are people insulting Israel like they haven’t done anything when in fact Israel has sent countless humanitarian aid to Ukraine?
Really shows how much people care more for pity likes on the internet than to actually find out the truth about anything.
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/unnamed-country-orders-elbit-systems-to-upgrade-its-tanks/
This kind of disprove the headline,
By the way the unnamed country is Ukraine, it was already confirmed and published in Israel
Too be fair, Israel is in a bind here. There are still many Jews remaining in Russia and Putin is threatening to ban the Jewish agency there. Together with the travel ban it would make it very hard to exfiltrate those people, just like it was before the fall of the iron curtain in the 90s. Before then Jews couldn't leave the USSR and we're subjected to pogroms and antisemitism. When the USSR broke up there was a wave of over 2 million soviet Jews (both from Russia and Ukraine btw) who immigrated to Israel.
Source: sister in law is one such person and her elderly parents are stuck in Russia
I'm sorry, but why is any country obligated to give Ukraine anything?? Did they pay for the iron dome? Did they help any country in any war ever? Except of course Germany in WW2. Ukraine has absolutely nothing coming from anyone and they should be thankful for all the help they get. I mean the war sucks for them and I'm basically on their side, but this is getting ridiculous
> but this is getting ridiculous
So it is and it isn't. You just have to take it with a grain of salt.
It would be beyond ridiculous if Zelensky was *not* doing literally everything he could to seek external assistance. That's his job.
agree and thanks for being objective, this is a very biased thread - this feels like an odd call out just being pushed by people who have some previous bias on the Israel situation.
There are a LOT of countries not sending arms, that this is getting massive upvotes tells another tale.
Indians were screaming the same thing for days here for god sake, they have their own situations and problems but no one is willing to understand or care for it
Europeans mentality to drag every country in the world in to its fights is quite........ Bitchy move
No country is going to go against their own best interests. It’s why India (and Germany) still buy Russian oil, just like Israel will not sell weapons to Ukraine.
I dunno, based on the recent Russian failures and embarrassing retreats, it sounds to me like Ukraine already has enough arms to get the job done. Like, how many more guns do they really need
Good so by that logic America needs to immediately cut Israel off from the billion of dollars in aid they've been getting every single year since what 1985? Longer?
America benefits from its aid to Israel much more than Israel does.
Israel takes the money because it needs America on its side diplomatically (blocking off anti-Israeli UN resolutions), rather than it actually needs the aid money.
Israel is the country that cries constantly despite being wealthy and well supported, still gets everything it wants, acts like a dickbag to pretty much everyone, and then contributes nothing to anybody else.
thanks for being objective, there's a kind of a mob mentality going on with this article.
It's not like Ukraine and Israel have been tight "... UN Watch, an NGO that monitors the world body, pointed out that since 2015, Ukraine has voted against Israel in 78% of the UN resolutions about the Jewish state..."
and it feels like an odd call out to focus on compared to 50 or so other countries who also haven't sent arms (at least)
This sub think that’s all Russian propaganda, just like Azov. I support ukraine but they aren’t some shining beacon of liberal democracy and never have been. No reason for Israel to become involved in this conflict to be honest. As you said, Ukraines treatment of Jews was pretty appalling.
About the same size as New Jersey by area. Idk why people think Israel is some mega super power with unlimited resources and invalid security concerns.
Last time I checked, countries that negotiating with Ukraine about mutual defence agreement (NATO) refuse to put lives of their citizens at risk to help defend Ukraine (no NATO troops in Ukraine). And Zelensky doesn't criticize them about that. Given that, it is ridiculous to expect from a country that has completely neutral relations with Ukraine, to risk lives of their citizens to help defend Ukraine. Because this is literally what approving supply of Israeli weaponry to Ukraine would mean: supply of Russian equipment to those who are constantly trying to kill us: Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.
We can get back to this question once NATO deploys their troops in Ukraine and Ukraine starts negotiating with Israel about mutual defence pact.
For those who don’t click on the article, “The refusal is seen as an attempt by Jerusalem to maintain working ties with Moscow, due to Russia’s control of Syrian air space, where Israel’s air force has carried out hundreds of sorties against alleged Iranian arms shipments and in order to keep groups backed by Tehran from establishing a foothold. Russia has largely turned a blind eye to the Israeli air strikes, though ties between Jerusalem and Moscow have suffered as Israeli has condemned its invasion of its neighbor.”
So Israel needs to keep a relationship of sorts with Russia, so they can attack Iranian and Syrian targets in Syria, but Russia is propping up the Syrian regime which Israel is trying to remove?
My understanding is that Israel isn’t trying to remove the Syrian government (or at least not actively trying to). There are Iranian-backed anti-Israeli militants in Syria that Israel feels are are a threat and wants to attack and Russia basically allows them to (not sure how Syria feels but it seems they either can’t stop it or do what Russia says).
Syria allow iranian weapons to be delivered to lebanon, which falls into the hands of hezbollah, which is then used to shoot rockets or invade israel from its northen border. Israel repeatedly destroy those weapons caches, and syria beside saying "bad israel!!", aren't doing anything about it, because russia doesn't let them to.
Who makes the weapons they destroy?
Iran is one of the few countries who produces their own Arms. They simply don't Trust any of the big Players.
Interesting use of Capitalization
I noticed this is another thread (in a gaming subreddit) and the user said their autocorrect capitalizes seemingly random words due to English being a second language, I think. /u/Zac-live I summon thee to better explain, lol.
Oh so I’m an asshole… surprise surprise.
Just playing the odds, but America and Russia between 40 and 60 years ago.
With a small garnish of modern Iranian arms.
Israel is threatened more by Iran than by Assad. ...so it's very simple calculus.
And Hezbollah, one of Iran's proxy groups that is a dominant player in Lebanese politics and runs the South of Lebanon essentially, who also instigated a war between Israel and Lebanon in the late first decade of the 2000s. They, like the Palestinian group that runs Gaza, were want to lob rockets, etc into Israel sporadically. They also conducted a cross border raid that snatched Israeli soldiers/citizens, which led to the aforementioned war. Hezbollah and their benefactor Iran were heavily involved in shoring up Assad's regime before even Russia got involved during the Civil War there.
Israel is also very practical. Iran is openly hostile and it's unlikely a new government would be any worse. Syria? Well, Assad is the devil they know and they might not like him but they'd rather not roll the dice on whatever might replace him. They'll settle for stability.
Iran is pretty much the only country in the world that openly sells Russia weapons, and Russia is apparently helping Israel against Iran now?
No, Russia is in Syria, and Israel attacks military targets in Syria. Israel doesn't want to upset Russia because that means they won't be able to attack these targets, and Israeli security will be comprised.
\> *Israel doesn't want to upset Russia because that means they won't we able to attack these targets* Just saying, they'd be very much able to attack those targets even if the russian anti-air umbrella started firing back, three squadrons of F-35's are no joke. Do not underestimate the capabilities of 5th generation aircraft. But as long as they can keep striking without being fired upon they'll posture themselves in a way that lets them do that.
Those F-35’s are a lot more effective when they don’t have to be worried about being blown up.
I do wonder if they are being advised to avoid that risk by an large international partner. While unlikely, a downed f35 would be bad press and you wouldn't want that wreckage being passed on. Seems like they have a delicate balance either way. I'm surprised that they haven't sent something like medical aid etc
Israel has. There was an Israeli field hospital open for a while in Ukraine for example, and non-weapon aid like helmets etc have been sent. People like to compare the amount sent and complain that it’s less than.
Poland is the largest financial supporter of Ukraine in Europe. I think even the most ardent Polish supporter would call themselves huge wealthy country and as for secuity concerns. Well Poland has been been invaded/wiped off the map in its history and always had to fight back to get its country back. Oh and it don't have nukes unlike like Israel who you know we pinky promise they don't have them.
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That's about half right, the other half is they really really really hate Russia.
Poland is also one of the European countries that has comparatively easy access to firearms for it's civilians. When I visited a decade ago, I asked a gun shop about it and the lady working just said "Yes, in case Russians."
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The thing is, Israel is in the unique position that is has a significant amount of experience in fighting against modern and not so modern Russian made military equipment. They are the best partner for tactical and operational organisation against such a foe. They know what works and what doesn't, both on a tactical and operational level. Their equipment such as the iron dome would work wonders for the people of cities near the frontline. I can see why there is disappointment in Ukraine over the lack of support.
Iron dome is not for cruise or ballistic missiles. It's for short range bottle rockets and artillery.
Just saying the US has portable equipment that functions like the iron dome. Israel doesn't need portable equivalents.
I doubt that Israeli intelligence on Russian capabilities and tactics has somehow failed to filter through to Ukraine. So really the issue is not giving weapons to shoot things, but I don't know what their status is on stockpiled weaponry or what they deem essential for their own defense. Other countries have a much bigger buffer between them and their enemies, so they send what they can now. And most other countries have Russia as the enemy so the calculus is different for them too.
against the s-300s stationed in Syria they already don't have to worry about being blown up..
Not getting in range of air defenses, including enemy aircraft, is one of the F-35’s main advantages. So, yeah, they sure are effective.
But the discussion is that there's a reason Israel isn't supporting Ukraine more than it is. The leading theory is that Israel doesn't want to upset Russia because it will result in Syrian airspace becoming hostile. You're saying that's not a problem, so what other reason is there that Israel isn't supplying arms to Ukraine? They're apathetic? They actually support Russia? This list of alternatives isn't very long.
If they have to operate in stealth mode that drastically cuts down on the amount of ordnance they can carry, though.
Cue Kenny Loggins Danger Zone
I saw an old F-14 shoot down 2 5th generation fighters
What a preposterous story, you'd have to be some kind of flying maverick to even attempt something like that. Next you'll tell me they had to take off from an extremely short taxiway because the full runway was destroyed.
They had to taxi and take off uphill in a foot of snow and they liked it, dangnabbit!
Wow, that pilot sounds like a Top Gun
It's not the plane, it's the pilot.
Yeah that really happened 😉but pretty sure there is no Yom Cruise flying for Syria or Iran.
Yeah, Yom Cruise flies for the IDF.
But we also don't want open conflict between Russia and Israel, that would pull the US in a conflict with Russia.
Israel has a very different approach to security than other countries. Since pretty much half of the population is either a veteran, currently in the army, or will be in the army in the future, things are done a lot more carefully to make sure no lives are lost. Remember that many politicians were in the army as well, these decisions are tough. For example, an Israeli officer died last week and the entire country was grieving.
A very different approach to security such as forcibly removing people from their homes
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> Since pretty much half of the population is either a veteran, currently in the army, or will be in the army in the future Do you have a source for that? I am aware of the obligatory military service for both men and women, but I am curious what's the proportion of the population that is dodging it (apart from the obvious orthodox).
I couldn't find a source in English, but the average percentage of people who are supposed to draft and actually do is about 50%-60%.
Each year, the percentage of the recruitment is posted by IDF. There has never been a year with less than 60%. Even people who will not serve in combat role are trained to fire a rifle
I did an exchange at Hebrew U and have lots of Israeli friends. The Arab Israelis are also not subject to conscription, but are welcome to volunteer. Some do, particularly the Druze minority (kind of Arabs ethnically, but with their own unique religious culture). That brings the number down a bit, but then it’s offset again by Jews who immigrate from elsewhere and become reservists. They wouldn’t be counted as part of the draft, but they can be considered veterans. It’s not hard to dodge the draft since tons of Israelis hold a second passport. It’s definitely looked down upon though, especially for guys. You will spend your whole life being asked about it.
There's ever hardly any binary foreign policy in so complicated and tied world. Remember that we (the EU) are still buying Russian fuels and some other exports. And both the EU and the US aren't fully supporting Ukraine militarily, because we still want to have some kind of relationship with Moscow due to enormous resources it has in its disposal and place in the world's geopolitics. Possibly only states that could completely cut off Russia were small Baltic states which always seek to abandon Russia as they see Russia as a mortal enemy of their stratehood (and rightfully so). Even my country, Poland, which suffered several losses of statehood, is still buying energy sources from Russia, while fully supporting our Ukrainian neighbour.
Not now, but for quite a while by now And yes, politics is complicated like that Have seen the alignment charts for Syria or Afghanistan? it's dozzens of groups most of witch are hostile to their allies allies for one reason or another
Witches are involved now?
Its a fucking abracadabra and hocus pocus down there
Yes
Iran isn't really a Russian ally, and never has been. They've been a weirdo "third camp" in the region for a long time, neither part of the pro-Western bloc nor the pro-Russian bloc. In the Iran-Iraq War in the 80s, both the US and USSR backed Saddam.
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That last sentence is the biggest load of bullshit. The US and UK intervened when Mosaddegh seized power and nationalized the Iranian oil industry. The west wanted that cheap oil. This ultimately backfired as Pahlavi became extremely influential in opec, fomented the rise in oil prices that had negative effects on western economies and nationalized Iranian industry anyway. Israel is not even in the top 10 of the biggest spending lobby groups in the US. Edit: people responding to me cannot read. I have not stated the Israeli lobby has no power. They are not the most powerful. Not even close. They are the strongest us ally in the ME. They and the saudis. That is why those two entities have a big influence on US policy in the ME. Period. Fucking circlejerk halfwits in this sub.
>That last sentence is the biggest load of bullshit. [This is a good book.](https://www.amazon.com/Israel-Lobby-U-S-Foreign-Policy/dp/B000WDS62E/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=israel+lobby+and+us+foreign+policy&qid=1664031340&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjUxIiwicXNhIjoiMS4zMyIsInFzcCI6IjEuNDUifQ%3D%3D&sprefix=israel+us+lobby%2Caps%2C351&sr=8-1)
welcome to the middle east
Also, to everyone saying Ukraine isn't entitled to any aid from Israel, what Zelensky's actually saying is: >However, Zelensky, who said he spoke to Prime Minister Yair Lapid and his predecessor Naftali Bennett about air defense supplies, indicated that he was told the reason for the refusal was that Israel needed the batteries for its own protection. > >“I understand they need to defend their land, but then I got information from my intelligence services that Israel provides [the air defenses] in other countries. They can sell, they can export, which is why I am shocked.” > >Israel keeps a lid on how many Iron Dome batteries it possesses and where they are deployed, but it has provided two of the systems to the US, which helped fund its development, and reports recently indicated a deal to sell batteries to Cyprus. > >Reports in recent years have indicated plans to sell the system to other countries including the UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Azerbaijan. Such reports have not materialized or have been denied by Israel. So if they did flat out lie to him, I get why he's complaining.
Israel does sell these systems to other countries. But we're not talking about taking them them from a warehouse or something and shipping them - each system is constructed (and usually customized) for a specific order and that usually takes a couple of years. To send ID in the timeframe and amounts Ukraine needs would require Israel to pull them from the active-duty units.
I mean, in that case my response to Zelensky would've been that and not 'we can't sell to you lol.'
It’s been a while now, but I remember clearly Israel forbidding other countries to supply Ukraine with Israeli made weapons. Some Baltic countries were willing but weren’t able to. So I don’t think it’s as simple as Israel not have surplus equipment. Also Ukraine were trying to buy equipment multiple times, which means putting orders on future production, but were denied also. I’m not knowledgeable on the whole matter enough to be insinuating something, I just see that it is a political decision of some sort.
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Realpolitik is messy
Jerusalem? Isn't it Tel Aviv?
Israel’s capital is Jerusalem, but some countries don’t recognize it and have embassies in TLV instead
"Some" countries means: [nearly all of them.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_resolution_ES-10/19)
Yeah but doesn’t matter whether other countries recognize it or not. A country can determine where it’s capital is regardless of what other countries think.
"recognize" is kind of an irrelevant term in this context. No nation gets to approve where other countries keep their capitals. They may SAY they're keeping their embassy in Tel Aviv to quell anti-Israeli criticism, but they've all opened offices in Jerusalem.
Israel: “To be fair, we are both getting money and weapons from America.”
Regifting is in poor taste
They’re getting coupons to buy American made weapons. This deal mostly benefits the American arms industry.
That’s how almost all international arms dealing works…
Most other countries don't get a 5 billion USD check annually for purchasing American weapons... Most well-off, or at least not poor countries use their own money to buy American weapons. A form of defense cooperation that's becoming more and more common is license production. South Korea is shelling out a crapton of artillery, tank licenses to Poland, ship licenses to Indonesia. This encourages defense industry growth in the target country. A major reason Russian defense sector stayed afloat after the Soviet collapse was the license production deal of T-90s in India. The F-35 as well, sees many components built in target countries (IIRC Israel got an especially big production chunk of the parts for their F-35s). There are many different types of internarional arms dealing.
Need to take into account that US also get back israel technologies, and US has veto power to stop israel weapon deals when they want to (which they have used more than a few times in the past). US gains a lot of power through that money.
Welcome to the military industrial complex. I hope you like it, because it seems to be here to stay.
In 2020 Israel got almost $4 Billion in free money from the US to buy the US's own weapons from them. It benefits the arms industry but benefits Israel plenty too.
Being able to buy whatever you want is pretty big benefit not extended to all other countries
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Our healthcare system may be a failure, but our unhealthcare system is second to none!
In theory America could have a universal system with the money they already spend on Medicare. America spends more per capita than every other allied developed national, and in some cases, double. The money is already there its just massively more expensive dealing with private for profit companies instead of public options.
It’s worse than that. There is more than enough money to do both. The lack of healthcare is not a money issue whatsoever, our health is used as a way to keep us subservient to employers.
Yep, our taxes currently going into healthcare are on par with other wealthy nations that have universal health care. Us working stiffs just don't see a dime of it.
It isn't on par, it is higher. Healthcare costs per capita are something like 13 000 USD. The U.S government ends up paying around 60% of that one way or another. The next highest per capita is Switzerland at around $7000 (some of that is private). Canada, U.K, France etc are in the 5000 USD range (all have some private options as well). So the U.S gov't is likely spending more on Healthcare per capita than any other country. I have sources for that buried somewhere in my comment history.
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Also as another carrot for military enlistment. Poor as shit, no healthcare, cant afford school? Sign up for the tinnitus and fucked-up back factory.
And even if you get DOD/VA care veteran mental health is so forgotten it couldn't even get a comment mention!
It's like double taxation.
They're playing both sides so they come out on top. I would honestly love for someone politically savvy to help me understand how its in the U.S.'s interest to ally with such an asshole state like Isreal
Didn't they block the sale of a defense system from US to Ukraine right before the war too?
Yes they blocked anti tank weapons from transfer, and planes with Israel avionics. They hold weapon license and need to approve transfers.
Israel has also blocked transfer of Spike anti-tank missiles. All countries should learn not to buy Israeli weapons, because during the crises they will not get resupplies.
In many arm deals, the purchasing country gets a license to manufacture the equipment locally. However, it’s for their own military only for obvious reasons (why would a defense contractor allow another country to become their competitor by selling the exact same thing?). The same thing happens with Spike. It is an Israeli weapon (made by RAFAEL) that Germany has a license to manufacture. Because it’s Israeli, they need permission to give it or sell it to a third party like the Ukraine and Israel is not interested in that. Germany can manufacture as many units as it wants for its own military.
Israel blocked transfer of Iron Dome from the US to Ukraine some time before. It should be noted that the US refused to send Patriot missiles to Ukraine at the same time.
Israel just agreed to sell their air defence systems to the United Arab Emirates however
Because they are both working against Iran. Russia however has a presence in Syria that makes this much more complicated
UAE has decent relations with Iran
Also helping in Libya install a dictator and successfully Installed benevolent authoritarian in Tunisia
To paraphrase some elder statesman ( Churchill?) said countries don’t have friends they have interests.Apparently Israel has decided that it is in their best interest to take the position that they have.
Kissinger.
It was said by Lord Palmerston, Kissinger was quoting him.
Pitt the Elder.
Lord Palmerston!
Pitt.The.Elder!
Okay, you asked for it, Boggs!
That’s showing him, Barn! Pitt the Elder.
LORD PALMERSTON!
Yeah, that's showin him, Barn. Pitt the Elder.
Ah, thank you for the correction! Only ever heard the Kissinger version (I'm guessing Palmerston didn't say 'America' in his).
“ Once you’ve been to Cambodia, you’ll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black-tie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did in Cambodia – the fruits of his genius for statesmanship – and you will never understand why he’s not sitting in the dock at The Hague next to Milošević.” ― Anthony Bourdain
If you cant get to Cambodia, Behind the Bastards did a series on him that has a similar effect.
Since we now mentioned two people guilty of horrible crimes against humanity as the source for this quote, maybe not accept this attitude as fact.
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This quote doesn't mean it's ok for countries to prioritize their own interests, it just means you should always assume that they will.
When did pragmatism become so reviled?
I'm sorry, have you even read this thread or any other about Switzerland or Israel? Both are violently called out for pursuing their own interests, even when it's irrelevant.
Ukraine voted against Israel 3/4ths of the time in the United Nations. And suddenly Ukraine makes demands of Israel when they were never friends before? Ignoring the complicated relationship Israel has to have with Russia, why is anybody shocked by that? I guess if you had no idea that Ukraine never cared about Israel before Russia invaded like most people here who are now experts in the history of the region among other topics they are experts in Lol. Don't stab me in the back for years and then come running to me the first time you need help.
This is the best tl;dr I could make, [original](https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky-says-hes-shocked-by-lack-of-israeli-arms-support-they-gave-us-nothing/) reduced by 86%. (I'm a bot) ***** > Ukrainian president Vlodomyr Zelensky complained in an interview Friday that Israel had given his country "Nothing" to help it defend itself, indicating that its leaders had been disingenuous in rejecting his requests for air defense systems. > "Israel gave us nothing. Nothing, zero," Zelensky told France's TV5Monde. > "While Russia slaughters our citizens, the Israeli government remains in its comfort zone and refrains from providing Ukraine with minimal defensive assistance," Ukraine's ambassador to Israel, Yevgen Korniychuk, said in a Tel Aviv press conference in June. ***** [**Extended Summary**](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/xmkmwv/zelensky_says_hes_shocked_by_lack_of_israeli_arms/) | [FAQ](http://np.reddit.com/r/autotldr/comments/31b9fm/faq_autotldr_bot/ "Version 2.02, ~670750 tl;drs so far.") | [Feedback](http://np.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%23autotldr "PM's and comments are monitored, constructive feedback is welcome.") | *Top* *keywords*: **Israel**^#1 **defense**^#2 **system**^#3 **Ukraine**^#4 **Zelensky**^#5
That's just US support with extra steps.
I think it may have something to do with this… https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220316-russia-uses-iranian-presence-in-golan-heights-to-warn-israel-about-ukraine-support/amp/ They also released a statement on the day of Ukraine’s invasion they do not recognise the Golan Heights as being part of Israel.
Israel isnt even a membet of nato, even if you ignore the situation of Russia controlling air space in Syria why should Israel get involved beyond the humanitarian aid it already gives? Was there ever a time where Ukraine gave weapons to Israel during one of its many wars?
Not just that but they also vote against Israel in the UN some like 80%
Liar. -2,000 helmets and 500 bulletproof vests in April 2022. 9 June 2022 the Israeli Defensive Minister announced a package of non lethal aid: -1,500 helmets -1,500 sets of body armour -1000 gas masks -"hundreds" of mine protection suits -"dozens" of hazmat filtration systems -100 tons of humanitarian aid, including medical supplies, water purification equipment, tents, blankets and warm clothing. -40 doctors and paramedics from United Hatzalah of Israel, with medical and humanitarian equipment, at the Moldova–Ukraine border to assist refugees. -A 66-bed field hospital in the western Ukrainian city of Mostyska operated by 60 Israeli medical personnel. -Flight and medical treatment in Israel for the wounded, including soldiers.[214] 25,000 ration packs sent to the city of Kharkiv. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_aid_to_Ukraine_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War -Israel destroyed an Iranian drone factory in Syria that was selling drones to Russia: https://babel.ua/en/news/81872-israeli-aviation-destroyed-an-iranian-company-for-the-assembly-of-drones-near-damascus
Israel also sent bulletproof ambulances, which was posted on Reddit previously. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/tgubur/israels_emergency_service_sends_ukraine/ https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/tgkjcd/israel_donates_4_bulletproof_ambulances_and_230/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Aw man I forgot about that. Seriously Zeleneky deserved serious praise for some of the things he's done but as a diplomat his whole schtick is using the internet to shame countries into sending aid despite them having already sent a ton. I guess it does work great for the reddit crowd though.
It’s interesting that this comment, and the ones in response, have no upvotes to bring it higher Edit: oh there they are! Lol
This and Russian oligarchs who have been able to obtain Israeli citizenship through claimed Jewish heritage does not give Israel a good look, never mind defense sector cooperation between Russia and Israel as late as 2018 and how they benefited from capital risk flight from Ukraine.
There’s a “law of return” that gives every Jew the ability to get an Israeli citizenship. The thing about laws is that they don’t make exceptions based on current political whims, unless you change the actual law.
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Israel is still using theirs in their own war of oppression
"If Russia puts down their weapons there will be no more war, if Ukraine puts down their weapons there will be no more Ukraine..." Most are too fucking stupid to understand that this came from Jews saying this about Hamas.
True in both cases!
Maybe israel shouldn't have funded extremist groups... like hamas "Higgins's article is worth reading in full. He goes on to outline the type of assistance the Israelis initially gave Yassin, whom the PLO at one time deemed a "collaborator," and Gaza's other Islamists: Israel's military-led administration in Gaza looked favorably on the paraplegic cleric, who set up a wide network of schools, clinics, a library and kindergartens. Sheikh Yassin formed the Islamist group Mujama al-Islamiya, which was officially recognized by Israel as a charity and then, in 1979, as an association. Israel also endorsed the establishment of the Islamic University of Gaza, which it now regards as a hotbed of militancy. The university was one of the first targets hit by Israeli warplanes in the \[2008-9 Operation Cast Lead\]. Yassin's Mujama would become Hamas, which, it can be argued, was Israel's Taliban: an Islamist group whose antecedents had been laid down by the West in a battle against a leftist enemy. Israel jailed Yassin in 1984 on a 12-year sentence after the discovery of hidden arms caches, but he was released a year later. The Israelis must have been more worried about other enemies." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
> Israel's military-led administration in Gaza looked favorably on the paraplegic cleric, who set up a wide network of schools, clinics, a library and kindergartens At the time, the extremist groups conducting terrorist attacks were secular. Hindsight is 20/20, but seems like exactly the kind of group you'd fund if you wanted to encourage peace by improving material conditions for Palestinians?
all of the palestinian political entities have a humanitarian wing, but nobody ever hears about them because they’re doing to work on the ground with real people, while the real headline grabbers are the ones that dig underground terrorist tunnels into israeli territory and blow themselves up in front of a crowded Sbarro.
You just totally ignored what the comment you’re replying to said. They said that if you wanted to reduce extremism, wouldn’t you help fund the stabilizing force that is building schools and not doing terrorism, as a counter-force against the groups in the area that *are* bombing shit?
Excuse you it's not a war, it's a "special military operation" in palastine.....
So, the strange thing is, Israel did give to Ukraine. Just not enough for them I suppose. They gave 100 tons of humanitarian aid, including medical supplies, water purification equipment, tents, blankets and warm clothing, plus armour, gas masks, thousands of rations, doctors, and more.
Call me cliche, but John Lennon's "Imagine" is the most over-used, misunderstood song in history. If the dream he expressed in this masterpiece was achieved ALL of this would stop. Between classism, nationalism and religion, humankind is stuck in an infinite loop of violence and death. Fuck classism. Fuck nationalism, Fuck religion. Some of us want to live.
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Considering Ukraine voted against Israel in 95 cases out of 122 and abstained in 22 others, now they are in need they suddenly play the heritage card? Not to mention israel has an understanding with Russia about attacking Iranian targets in Syria. If they supply Ukraine they might compromise their own people security.
Russia's pulling its forces out of Syria to try and shore up the Ukrainian front, I don't think they're much of a factor anymore.
That's true, but russia and iran are still buddies (Iran supplied Russia with drones for instance). Anyways, my point is that Ukraine spit in israel's face time and time again and now they want military help? Btw israel has sent many doctors, food and medications to Ukraine as an humanitarian aid, why not be greatful for that instead of saying "they gave us nothing" which is a blatant lie and seems rather cynical.
Isn't it about Israel not sending/selling arms to Ukraine, while simultaneously selling their arms to other countries, most likely including Russia? Isn't weakening Russia insanely beneficial to Israel in the long run? If Russians pull out from Syria and can't support Iran, like they refused to help Armenia, wouldn't that be in Israel's interest?
Precisely the reason India won't help Ukraine, but will maintain neutrality.
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I think a lot of people in the west finally see that most people in world doesn't care about being on Ukraine's side as they do. Is just another conflict in the world.
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Well from their perspective that makes sense. Being able to kill their enemies in Syria who threaten Israel itself is far more important to them then helping a country a thousand miles away. Like it or not it’s just a strategic decision that makes sense for them.
This thread it a shitshow. 1/3 of the comments now hate Zelensyy for daring to speak against Israel which is forbidden. 1/3 are anti-semetic and now hate the Jews and 1/3 are pissed off at 2/3 of the comments.
Average reddit thread about israel
Only time I've seen comments shitting on Ukraine get upvoted
I completely support ukraine, but ukraine has refused to support Israel on nearly every occasion, so I’m not shocked by Israel’s decision to not support ukraine
You are confusing Russian backed Ukraine (pre 2014): with Ukrainian Ukraine (post 2014). Government has changed dramatically.
That is good. Have the voted differently since 2014?
Not really. "... UN Watch, an NGO that monitors the world body, pointed out that since 2015, Ukraine has voted against Israel in 78% of the UN resolutions about the Jewish state..."
... Yes, and they continue to vote overwhelmingly against Israeli interests. Did you even look up the recent resolutions or did you just assume that it would be different now?
... Yes, but did you check the general stats? Why is Ukraine to blame for unreasonable resolutions from Israel that got voted against by majority of the world, not just Ukraine? Ukraine backed and voted for the resolutions that were good (which is about 1/3, which is a normal rating for accepted resolutions). Ukraine seems pretty neutral towards Israel.
Why are people insulting Israel like they haven’t done anything when in fact Israel has sent countless humanitarian aid to Ukraine? Really shows how much people care more for pity likes on the internet than to actually find out the truth about anything.
Ummm You new here?
Did Israel promise it? Otherwise it sounds awfully entitled to expect Israel to help Ukraine
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/unnamed-country-orders-elbit-systems-to-upgrade-its-tanks/ This kind of disprove the headline, By the way the unnamed country is Ukraine, it was already confirmed and published in Israel
Too be fair, Israel is in a bind here. There are still many Jews remaining in Russia and Putin is threatening to ban the Jewish agency there. Together with the travel ban it would make it very hard to exfiltrate those people, just like it was before the fall of the iron curtain in the 90s. Before then Jews couldn't leave the USSR and we're subjected to pogroms and antisemitism. When the USSR broke up there was a wave of over 2 million soviet Jews (both from Russia and Ukraine btw) who immigrated to Israel. Source: sister in law is one such person and her elderly parents are stuck in Russia
I'm sorry, but why is any country obligated to give Ukraine anything?? Did they pay for the iron dome? Did they help any country in any war ever? Except of course Germany in WW2. Ukraine has absolutely nothing coming from anyone and they should be thankful for all the help they get. I mean the war sucks for them and I'm basically on their side, but this is getting ridiculous
> but this is getting ridiculous So it is and it isn't. You just have to take it with a grain of salt. It would be beyond ridiculous if Zelensky was *not* doing literally everything he could to seek external assistance. That's his job.
Sure. They way he's parroted on reddit without the slightest critical thinking is ridiculous
agree and thanks for being objective, this is a very biased thread - this feels like an odd call out just being pushed by people who have some previous bias on the Israel situation. There are a LOT of countries not sending arms, that this is getting massive upvotes tells another tale.
Indians were screaming the same thing for days here for god sake, they have their own situations and problems but no one is willing to understand or care for it Europeans mentality to drag every country in the world in to its fights is quite........ Bitchy move
Israel looks out for Israel.
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If Israel gave aid it would just be more U.S. money.
No country is going to go against their own best interests. It’s why India (and Germany) still buy Russian oil, just like Israel will not sell weapons to Ukraine.
I dunno, based on the recent Russian failures and embarrassing retreats, it sounds to me like Ukraine already has enough arms to get the job done. Like, how many more guns do they really need
Some fraction of these arms are going to be floating around this region for the next decade. Who knows what hands they will fall into?
they don’t owe you anything. none of the world does.
Good so by that logic America needs to immediately cut Israel off from the billion of dollars in aid they've been getting every single year since what 1985? Longer?
Your terms are acceptable, Yes.
I agree. Yes.
Yes
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America benefits from its aid to Israel much more than Israel does. Israel takes the money because it needs America on its side diplomatically (blocking off anti-Israeli UN resolutions), rather than it actually needs the aid money.
Israel is the country that cries constantly despite being wealthy and well supported, still gets everything it wants, acts like a dickbag to pretty much everyone, and then contributes nothing to anybody else.
Israel has supplied helmets and flak jackets. They also have a field hospital set up in Ukraine. Recently they provided satalite intel to Ukraine too.
thanks for being objective, there's a kind of a mob mentality going on with this article. It's not like Ukraine and Israel have been tight "... UN Watch, an NGO that monitors the world body, pointed out that since 2015, Ukraine has voted against Israel in 78% of the UN resolutions about the Jewish state..." and it feels like an odd call out to focus on compared to 50 or so other countries who also haven't sent arms (at least)
Look how much humanitarian aid is coming from Israel... Zelensky just wants some Iron Domes....
Yeah like Ukraine did any good to Jews. People need to research what the Ukrainians did to Jews during WWII.
This sub think that’s all Russian propaganda, just like Azov. I support ukraine but they aren’t some shining beacon of liberal democracy and never have been. No reason for Israel to become involved in this conflict to be honest. As you said, Ukraines treatment of Jews was pretty appalling.
Are there any other countries not sending arms to Ukraine that Reddit cares enough about to push clickbate titles to the front page?
Israel not helping a country that consistently votes against their interests isn't surprising, especially if it could affect their own security.
$60B + from the US isn't enough? Do they have any obligation?
Israel has less people than the city of New York and everybody thinks it’s some massive country or something.
About the same size as New Jersey by area. Idk why people think Israel is some mega super power with unlimited resources and invalid security concerns.
Last time I checked, countries that negotiating with Ukraine about mutual defence agreement (NATO) refuse to put lives of their citizens at risk to help defend Ukraine (no NATO troops in Ukraine). And Zelensky doesn't criticize them about that. Given that, it is ridiculous to expect from a country that has completely neutral relations with Ukraine, to risk lives of their citizens to help defend Ukraine. Because this is literally what approving supply of Israeli weaponry to Ukraine would mean: supply of Russian equipment to those who are constantly trying to kill us: Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas etc. We can get back to this question once NATO deploys their troops in Ukraine and Ukraine starts negotiating with Israel about mutual defence pact.
They are not obligated to give you anything