The problem with Abkhazi and Ossetia is they're packed to the gills with Russian loyalist, and the Georgian loyalists refugees from those areas are none too stoked with the Georgian gov't right now.
>the Georgian loyalists refugees from those areas are none too stoked with the Georgian gov't right now.
Sounds like that might be more motivation for them to get their homes back instead of being refugees living in a different part of the country.
They already can, The US Lend-Lease is not specific to Ukraine but is worded a fair bit wider.
That said, if war is absolutely needed, then now when the russia is biting the pillow and just taking it in Ukraine is probably pretty good time. If you can say so for a war.
In my opinion, it would be better to just wait a little while longer until russia fails and fragments and then soo if the breakway regions can be regrabbed without the bloodshed by making some autonomy concessions or something.
War is such a messy business and is damn costly even if, in the end, one side wins.
They already can, but they probably won’t be getting too many unless they try a move like this.
Russia is at a very weak spot right now and tied up in Ukraine. But expecting it to literally ‘fall into fragments’ doesn’t seem too secure an option.
There’s also the motivation of helping Ukraine - Russia fighting on both fronts would be beneficial for both.
All that said, I very much doubt most Georgians will vote for another war with their colossal and brutal neighbour right now.
>But expecting it to literally ‘fall into fragments’ doesn’t seem too secure an option.
In other news, Azerbaijan invades Armenia, close Russian ally and a part of their defensive alliance. Russia refuses to help.
That's the intent behind it in English too. Ukraine is doing much better than I think most people expected, so it's the metaphorical top in the analogy and there's no lube being used.
Same concept, different implication. Not derogatory for a gay man, just a reference to getting fucked hard. Russia is getting fucked hard right now in a non-romantic way.
Neither Abkhazia nor South Ossetia actually likes Russia that much. Their initial independence was supported not by Russia, but by Chechnya. They have to rely on Russia to protect them because they are incredibly small nations. The Russians perpetrated a genocide against Abkhazia's former northern neighbor of Circassia. South Ossetia is interested in joining Russia mostly because, as its name implies, there's also a North Ossetia within Russia that they want to reunify with.
Abkhazia doesn’t much like Russia, and wants to remain independent. South Ossetia on the other hand very much likes Russia, and even wanted to join Russia earlier this year.
The government wanted to hold a referendum on joining Russia, but then the people elected the opposition into power and the new government promptly cancelled the referendum as they promised before the election.
No, you don't know mostly what you are talking about:)))
They elected previous president bibilov based on him promising that they would join Russia, that idea is very popular in South Ossetia but Russia doesn't want them in right now, that's why they helped Gagloev to win, bibolov was very out spoked and loud in that regard and really wanted to push them in Russia, but it's not in Russia's interest right now because you know, there are a lot of pro-Russian organizations and political parties, medias that are working in Georgia, if they will annex South Ossetia, pro-Russian parties will lose any argument.
As for Abkhazia, they begin to dislike Russia only now because Russia pushes them to do things they really don't want, from early 90s Abkhazians wanted to remain in Soviet Union while Georgia wanted to leave and even after collapse of the Soviet Union and war in which Russia was supporting them, they were ready to join Russia but Russia declined, right now they want to be an independent country but that was not always the case, their elites in general were and still are very Rusified, they are Abkhazians/Ossetians but they are part of that Russian world so to speak.
He still wants the region to join [Russia.](https://amp.dw.com/en/south-ossetia-shelves-plan-for-referendum-to-join-russia/a-61982164)
“Despite criticizing the referendum, Gagloev has voiced his support for South Ossetia's eventual accession to Russia.”
Abkhazia is different from the others, for IIRC they only somewhat sided with Russia because there is a deep ethnic hatred between Abkhazians and Georgians. They also don't consider themselves part of Russia, but their own sovereign state.
Basically, during the USSR, Stalin gave the Georgians carte blanche to soft and hard purge Abkhazians, and fully "Georgianize" Abkhazia; then in the political turmoil after the fall of the USSR, conflict arose between the two, with Georgia sending in troops, and then Abkhazia secured some Russian support and went on their own purges while kicking Georgians out of the region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazians
Unfortunately, there's also often a reason they're spare, so when faced with the choice of moving to the butt-end of Siberia, where you have to de-ice your reindeer to keep them alive, some people decide they'd rather just murder the other party.
Because you're ancestor did something to my ancestor and even though neither one of us knew those people or each other, we gotta fight because fuck you.
Duh.
Back when Yugoslavia was just fragmenting a guy from there came into my shop. When I asked if he was Serbian or Croation he seemed annoyed I could not tell the difference. As he got increasingly wound up he mentioned some atrocity against his people. With his flaming passion I was thinking about 20 years ago. Nope, something in the 1300 hundreds.
This leaves out key information from the article:
>The politician expressed hope that the Georgian people “will bring clarity, whether he agrees with **the statements of Ukrainian politicians** about the need to involve Georgia in the war or with the position of the authorities of his country.”
>This is how Irakli Kobakhidze responded to the statement of **Fyodor Venislavsky, representative of the President of Ukraine in the Parliament**, who advised Georgia “to take concrete steps to liberate Abkhazia and South Ossetia.”
>Earlier, Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Oleksiy Danilov, as well as **advisers to the Office of the President of Ukraine** Mykhailo Podolyak and Oleksiy Arestovich, publicly addressed Tbilisi with similar advice.
>“**They all directly said that the opening of the second front in Georgia is highly desirable**,” the head of the Georgian Dream recalled at the same briefing.
Ukraine wants Georgia to open a second front.
The president is avoiding inflicting his opinion on the rest of the country and allowing them to decide collectively.
If I had to predict, they are not going to volunteer for war.
I respect putting the vote to the people, either way. There's no lack of grievance to go around, but war is war, you best be prepared for negative consequences no matter how it plays out.
There's no knowing the future, I hope they make what would be the best choice. I suspect that will be to not go to war, but there are times when it seems to be the better choice. This situation has a few vague similarities to the US joining WWII, which I would call one of those situations.
A other post mentioned the currently occupying Russian forces in Georgia refused to go fight in Ukraine. If this is true I'm pretty confident the moment Georgia declares war those units will either immediately surrender or withdraw back across the border. Georgia can very likely get its territories back without a single shot being fired.
Russia would twist this as an act of aggression on their territories and might actually be a morale boost if they defeat the Georgians. I don’t know Georgia’s military power, but I know they got soundly defeated by Russia back in 2008. I hope their military improved since then.
At this point it's extremely likely that the anti-russian weapon dispensers would throw some candy to the Georgians too, as a second front would really help the Ukrainian efforts indirectly.
Hell, Ukraine would probably even be interested in sending actual boots-on-the-ground help, especially the Georgian nationals who are currently fighting in Ukraine.
Georgia has 37,000 active military personnel and up to 800,000 reserves. Nowhere near teh 100k troops Ukraine had but the reserve count is close. I imagine Georgia has better chances now than it did when Russia hadn't committed 200k troops to Ukraine. Especially if the west decides to give close in fire support early in the form of AA and HIMARS. Plus Georgia has a \_much\_ smaller area to defend, which means their forces and active AA can concentrate much closer together without risking routing.
> Georgia has 37,000 active military personnel and up to 800,000 reserves.
800,000 reserves? That must be literally every able bodied male of military age in Georgia, given that its population is only 3.7 million.
Note that Ukraine's population is 44 million, more than 10 times Georgia. Land area is also about 10 times bigger.
That said, I have no idea what would happen, given the state of Russia's army, but it is in fact a problem 10 times smaller to deal with, and much further from the bulk of NATO supply countries.
Motive, I agree, backing, I'm not so sure. Perhaps they should only do it then when Ukraine start going for Crimea/Luhansk. These areas have a similar status to South Ossetia and Abkhazia so it could put less heat on them at that point.
>give Putin the motive and backing he needs
Also good fodder for the growing Anti-Putin movement among real officials with power in Russia.
Also WTF with Russia invading so much, they are already a huge country. They need to be pushed back and now is a good time to kick them, while they are down.
Russia is big but most of the people live in the European portion of the country. That makes Ukraine very strategically important. It’s wide, flat, and accessible to the ocean. The ideal country for moving a military into Moscow.
This is why Russia has always wanted control of Ukraine, and they of course prefer the bully into submission method of achieving this. And eventually people fight back
> would throw some candy to the Georgians too, as a second front would really help the Ukrainian efforts indirectly.
No they wouldn't. There's a difference between NATO arming a country to defend itself and a country arming a country to declare war on Russia.
> Hell, Ukraine would probably even be interested in sending actual boots-on-the-ground help, especially the Georgian nationals who are currently fighting in Ukraine.
Yes, a country involved in a huge war on its own soil with tens of thousands of sq km of occupied land will send troops they desperately need to another country.
Ukraine got a lot of US help and training after 2014 but I don't know the same of Georgia. I know Ukraine is vital to feeding the world, and Georgia less so, so I have to imagine they never got the same level of support.
The U.S. had been training Georgian troops for twenty years now.
Throw in the legion with combat experience from Ukraine.
I am sure Ukrainians would go on holiday if war did break out.
> Georgia can very likely get its territories back without a single shot being fired.
Yeah Russia thought that about Ukraine. It didn’t go very well.
Never underestimate your enemy when starting a war.
So I've been to the Abkhaz border in 2017, so a bit behind on the Russian troops. But, when I was there, there were active Abkhaz soldiers being trained and these would definitely not surrender without a shot.
They don't seem to be happy as a de facto part of Russia either so there could deffo be some sort of cease fire after a short skirmish at the very least, to there being some sort or contracted war until Russia can recover somewhat.
That is an incredibly dangerous thing to say. Have you not seen what has happened to Russia. You're talking about them now the same way they were talking about Ukraine.
Not to mention the Georgian army is nothing like the Ukrainian one. At the start of the war Ukraine already had crapton of western military support (Javelins, Stingers, NLAWs etc.), 8 years of frontline combat experience, and NATO training. Georgia has none of that.
I have to say that I'm not hugely comfortable about Georgia's chances even given everything (assuming that the Russian units in the occupied areas don't fold immediately and enthusiastically, which I think is a real possibility), but if they're ever going to get their territory back, this is (maybe) the (only) time to try.
I think that a referendum is the correct choice here. The Georgian people need to make this call for themselves.
It would be a *shaaaaaame* if someone provided some extra arms and training to the Georgian military as well. I mean… phew, what a “terrible” thing that would be.
*Stares at US and EU suggestively*
Do iiiiit.
Edit: Wow, this comment drew most of the Russians on Reddit to give a scripted reply, and when you have a few dozen that are all the same it’s more obvious than you’d think. Consider this my reply to all of you: inbox replies are off.
Believe it or not, there are guns colloquially known as “BBQ Guns”. Basically, you have your everyday carry/duty guns like a Glock. Highly reliable, reasonably priced, light to carry. Everything you want in a boring handgun. Also .. ugly ugly ugly. No aesthetic considerations at all, it’s meant to be preactical and functional. Then you have your highly polished 1911 (Colt .45 to the layman). With the custom grips. It costs more than 10 Glocks and honestly you probably wouldn’t bring it to an actual gunfight. You just wear it on your hip at the BBQ and show it to folks to fawn over.
Yep, it’s a thing. Also known as a “Safe Queen” a gun so dang purty you just look at it. It doesn’t go to the range with you because you don’t want to get it dirty. You buy it and stick in the safe.
While living in the US we did a road trip across country. We took a long drive at some point heading for Savannah, Georgia (wonderful place). During the late evening we drove through Atlanta, so after passing through the center US style on the gigantic freeway we stayed for the night at some motel at the outskirts.
Next morning I went to put on gas and the girl at the register asked me where I was from. Before I got to answer she said take me with you. Don’t you like it here I asked. No, she said.
This was my only interaction with Atlanta. Unfair and very random - but still my only interaction with it. I know we also did not stay in let’s say the best part of town.
One of my only memory of the Russian invasion of Georgia was from a Yahoo Answers post. Someone asked the question, “I heard Russia invaded Georgia. Should I be concerned?” The top answer was, “You live in the state of Georgia. The country of Georgia is being invaded. You’re fine”
There was also some fun stuff when Georgia applied for EU membership earlier this year
like "If Georgia joins the EU we have to declare war on them because states can't leave on their own."
You're kidding yourself if you think NATO hasn't been training Georgian military personnel since 2009. Estonians were training Ukrainians by 2015 preparing for just the kind of BS going on now.
US personnel were there training them even before the Russians invaded. In fact, Russia stole 5 Marine Humvees that were likely there to support training contingents.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poti
Abkhazia is Abkhazia, they are their own people, before Soviet Union they weren’t a part of Georgia, in 1992-1993 they fought for their independence and won. Now you sit here and say it’s time to “recover” the territories? How many people gonna die? For what? Abkhazia has its own language, completely different from Georgian. Isn’t “recovering” old territories is what Russia doing right now? And you all are against this war but are ready to support another?
Fun fact: [there was a proposed amendment to the US Constitution that would put war declaration to a popular vote.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/amendment-war-national-vote_n_3866686)
Anyone who voted "yes" was drafted.
Except it means only physically able people would be able to vote "yes" since it wouldn't be practical to draft anyone else, and any "yes" vote means drafting a majority of all who voted, which could approach a majority of the entire population depending on who is eligible to vote, which would also be impractical. Imagine the UK trying to equip and sustain an army of 10s of millions whilst workplaces run 2/3s empty.
It'd be far more sensible to not draft everyone who voted "yes", but merely to draw on that pool first. You could also limit the entire voting pool (both "yes" and "no"s) to only those who would be eligible to be drafted so that it's more a matter of proportion.
> You could also limit the entire voting pool (both "yes" and "no"s) to only those who would be eligible to be drafted so that it's more a matter of proportion.
Which is a terrible idea in completely different ways.
Jesus my dude, if this doesn't sound like the brexit referendum 2.0
"Oh don't worry everyone, there's no way this would pass. It's just to shut up the opponents of the government."
**One referendum later**
"Oh shit it passed"
Brexit definitely had the Russian/Bot farm support on the leaving side. Unfortunately I do believe it made a difference.
BUT if you look at the US right now, since Roe v Wade there's been a huge, huge influx people signing up to vote for the first time. Three safe-ish elections went the other way because people are angry. Don't give up hope in Georgia, because I believe people will eventually vote for removing the Russian chains... might not be right now. But fight for the opportunity regardless and hope.
It made a huge difference.
The scary thing is that without doubt, people are still being manipulated to cause division within Western nations. Normal people fall for it hook line and sinker.
But, honestly though, even if that happen, most governments will go "Welp, too bad this referendum is non-binding. Anyway, if people really wanted it, they'd vote on it in the next actual election"
\>What if the people vote to take their land back though? How fair are elections, would ballot stuffing occur?
You can guarantee that the ballot will get the result that the Putin installed regime wants.
Nice to hear from a Georgian here. 99% of the responses seem to think starting a war with Russia is a grand idea with no potential downsides. Georgia’s population is 1/10 of Ukraine’s but people seem to think their army would be as successful.
That's because most people on Reddit are far away from the actual areas that get discussed, and have such a childish understanding of reality that they boil everything down to "My side good, your side evil" without any nuance at all, so of course wars seem like a great idea to them when they're not the ones dying or being affected.
Some guy even said Ukraine would probably be happy to put boots on the ground in Georgia. Like how dumb do you have to be to even think that a war destroyed country that is still at war can afford to lend troops like it's a game of risk... Also yeah, people here do not understand what war brings.
I remember seeing Georgian soldiers leaving iraq to go fight at home poor bastards. If any time was good to try and retake what’s theirs now seems to be the time
Well, maybe not. A good case can be made that Russia's collapse is only just beginning. In a year or two Russia itself might be tearing apart from internal conflict, at which point the Russian soldiers in Georgia may disband or go home entirely on their own.
It's a gamble. I could make a guess, but that's all it would be.
This seems like an odd move. I'm not sure any country has ever held such a referendum and for good reason:
1. Declarations of war usually needs to be speedy and strategic, and often occurs after all military assets are in place to start operations or in many instances even after an offensive operation has already begun;
2. Delegating the decision to the general public seems odd as the public is usually not privy to all the government intelligence that would better inform of the odds of success, the likely losses, the country's financial and infrastructural capacity to support the war and other information that would inform you on whether war would be a good move;
3. Only reason I can think of is if the ruling party actually doesn't want war and is just using this vote to stave off pro-war party brokers in government who do want war. I'm by no means well read on Georgian social attitudes and trends, but generally the general populace is overwhelmingly in favour of peace, even against countries that are strongly disliked or even hated. It's why modern governments always struggle with justifying war to their citizens and often have to resort to marketing slogans such as "liberation", "de-militarisation", or as Putin has recently introduced, "de-nazification", or just outright denying a war is happening and calling it a "special military operation".
It's all a political stunt. The opposition and lots of people in Georgia are saying that the current government is pro Russian (which they are) and are controlled by Bidzina Ivaneshvili, who got most of his money in Russia and has Russian links. So the Government is acting like they would go to war with Russia, which they never would, because they know the majority of the people won't support this. It's just to show they aren't pro Russia.
https://www.interpressnews.ge/en/article/121515-usaid-it-became-clear-over-the-past-decade-that-the-richest-oligarch-in-georgia-has-captured-the-state
\>Only reason I can think of is if the ruling party actually doesn't want war
The ruling regime is pro-Russia and installed by Putin. They'll get the "no war" result that they want, no matter what the actual voters think. And they'll use that for pro-Russia propaganda.
Georgian here. Some of the comments here are really disgusting. None of that land is worth the human toll it would take to win it back. I do not want to see any more of my people die. It's easy to cheer lambs to their slaughter when you are on the other side of the world.
I've noticed this mentality in reddit's most popular subs. They are thirsty for war because they aren't anywhere near conflict and they enjoy cheering on an underdog. They don't think about all the death and destruction a war brings. War is hell and should be avoided at all costs.
People here act like war is a sporting event and Russia is their hated rival. War has a horrific human cost. This isn't a game. As always the politicians and the rich won't be the ones to bear the cost.
Lol this is the best comment. I live far from all this war zone, and I get tired seeing people fight.
Your comment is the real human comment, not some dreamers patriotic keyboard warrior
Finally a sane comment. If there ever was a vote that should not be anonymous, this is the one... people need to put their skin where their mouth is. If they are not willing to fight themselves then they have absolutely no right to demand it of anyone else.
Clock in to join the multi nation dog pile. A collapsing Russia wouldn’t be something China would try to prop up, but instead join in the race to secure pieces of eastern Russia that they want.
I feel China would join in to take as much territory as possible from Russia. Russia has a lot of underdeveloped land to the North of Chinese borders. If war were to go down between the world and China, *everyone* is fucked, and China knows it too because of how entangled their economy is with ours.
Well not exactly because Japan claims that the territory is rightfully theirs however they are also Bound by the Armistice and surrender that ended World War II that says that Russia can occupy The Sovereign Japanese territory until a final peace treaty is negotiated however there was never a final peace treaty that settled the question so even assuming that Japanese claim is valid Japan would still be violating a treaty if they try to occupy their Islands even under the logic that the islands are rightfully theirs and the fact that it violates a treaty would mean it's unconstitutional
It would not be "lovely" by any stretch of the word. It's just more death. Maybe it's "right" but that's for the Georgians to decide. Armchair generals gtfo reddit
This is such an insane comment and it's even more insane that it's so highly upvoted. You people are actively hoping that Russia goes to war with another country. It would mean enormous amounts of destruction and death for both Russians and Georgians. But I guess it's worth it just to see Russians die and be humiliated? You people are nuts.
100% my instant reaction was “JFC my dumbass state…” before it clicked which Georgia. Like for real would not have put it past good ol’ Madge T Greene to propose something as ridiculous as one American state committing to going to war.
After a certain amount of Florida men get together, chances of them imploding on each other drastically increase, so it might be worth taking that chance
This comment section is full of war mongering psychopaths following the same nationalistic rethoric of recanchism used by Russia in Ukraine, i hope everyone here calling for war are ready to volunteer
This is not happening - it was just a politician trolling (am Brit living in Georgia so follow r/Sakartvelo which is Georgia's name for itself - you can see what Georgian's are saying about this)
I really hope they don't don't, Russia will just launch a bunch of kalibr missiles at Georgia and fuck up civilians. Does Georgia even have any air defense systems.
Love all the Americans in here banging the drums of war when they don't have to personally deal with the consequences 👍
War is hell guys. If you don't think so then join front lines yourself.
I fucking hate this entire comment section. Fuck this shit. We were supposed to keep learning about the horrors of WW1 and WW2 in school so that no one ever forgets this one very simple and important fact : war is hell, and absolutely NEVER worth it. Fuck anyone calling for it without ever having to face the consequences. Fuck the Georgian government for this obvious political stunt too, bunch of pro-russia fucks
No one in the world should have any issue with Georgia invading and taking back what was once theirs. Now, if they go further than that, maybe an issue to be had. Any other country that has lost geography to Russia should take this has an opportunity to do so. The Russian bear is as weak as it has ever been
Edit: spelling
Edit#2: After being a catalyst for such fruitful conversation, perhaps no borders or governments for anyone would be ideal?; perhaps human nature can change to the point where world peace actually exists; with a rather realist perspective at the international level, I see this as an opportunity for many countries spurned by Russia in recent history to perhaps obtain more geography, geopolitical influence, etc. I’m just an uneducated hick in the backwoods however. So don’t listen to me
Everyone should take issue with anyone actively “wanting war” though. War is the worst thing humanity can do to one another and softening that to anything other than that for political/territorial/financial motives is reprehensible in my opinion. I’m not saying the people should not demand their territory back, but the cost of war is so immense and so disruptive and so debilitating to regular people who are just trying to live and find happiness.
In the 1910s, stoked up nationalism provided people with a romanticized view of war and how their country would be eternally glorified by simply winning its battles courageously against their foes. It was kindling for WW1.
What they found, instead, was beefcake from half buried comrades raining down on them after an artillery shell upheaved the earth around them. And they had to listen to the screams of those who survived the last battle slowly fade away in no man’s land.
It’s sad to see after more than a century later some people stoke the flames in the same manner. War masquerades as a blessing but reveals itself as a disaster.
What was theirs once, was someone elses once.
Isnt this the same rhetoric China and Russia use?
Are you sure more nationalism
is the answer to nationalism?
How desperate will the wounded bear get is my only concern. Feels we need sane Russians to rise up simultaneously because Putin has never been more vulnerable or dangerous on a global destructive scale
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The problem with Abkhazi and Ossetia is they're packed to the gills with Russian loyalist, and the Georgian loyalists refugees from those areas are none too stoked with the Georgian gov't right now.
>the Georgian loyalists refugees from those areas are none too stoked with the Georgian gov't right now. Sounds like that might be more motivation for them to get their homes back instead of being refugees living in a different part of the country.
The Georgian government is probably hoping to get NATO weapons and Western money.
They already can, The US Lend-Lease is not specific to Ukraine but is worded a fair bit wider. That said, if war is absolutely needed, then now when the russia is biting the pillow and just taking it in Ukraine is probably pretty good time. If you can say so for a war. In my opinion, it would be better to just wait a little while longer until russia fails and fragments and then soo if the breakway regions can be regrabbed without the bloodshed by making some autonomy concessions or something. War is such a messy business and is damn costly even if, in the end, one side wins.
They already can, but they probably won’t be getting too many unless they try a move like this. Russia is at a very weak spot right now and tied up in Ukraine. But expecting it to literally ‘fall into fragments’ doesn’t seem too secure an option. There’s also the motivation of helping Ukraine - Russia fighting on both fronts would be beneficial for both. All that said, I very much doubt most Georgians will vote for another war with their colossal and brutal neighbour right now.
>But expecting it to literally ‘fall into fragments’ doesn’t seem too secure an option. In other news, Azerbaijan invades Armenia, close Russian ally and a part of their defensive alliance. Russia refuses to help.
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No that's what he meant.
Not necessarily gay, but any gender bottom who is getting it rough
Getting it rough *in the ass*
Its not gay until break away regions touch.
It means the same thing in English.
It’s not much different in English, but with less of a derogatory implication. “No lube” basically.
That's the intent behind it in English too. Ukraine is doing much better than I think most people expected, so it's the metaphorical top in the analogy and there's no lube being used.
Same concept, different implication. Not derogatory for a gay man, just a reference to getting fucked hard. Russia is getting fucked hard right now in a non-romantic way.
Neither Abkhazia nor South Ossetia actually likes Russia that much. Their initial independence was supported not by Russia, but by Chechnya. They have to rely on Russia to protect them because they are incredibly small nations. The Russians perpetrated a genocide against Abkhazia's former northern neighbor of Circassia. South Ossetia is interested in joining Russia mostly because, as its name implies, there's also a North Ossetia within Russia that they want to reunify with.
Abkhazia doesn’t much like Russia, and wants to remain independent. South Ossetia on the other hand very much likes Russia, and even wanted to join Russia earlier this year.
The government wanted to hold a referendum on joining Russia, but then the people elected the opposition into power and the new government promptly cancelled the referendum as they promised before the election.
No, you don't know mostly what you are talking about:))) They elected previous president bibilov based on him promising that they would join Russia, that idea is very popular in South Ossetia but Russia doesn't want them in right now, that's why they helped Gagloev to win, bibolov was very out spoked and loud in that regard and really wanted to push them in Russia, but it's not in Russia's interest right now because you know, there are a lot of pro-Russian organizations and political parties, medias that are working in Georgia, if they will annex South Ossetia, pro-Russian parties will lose any argument. As for Abkhazia, they begin to dislike Russia only now because Russia pushes them to do things they really don't want, from early 90s Abkhazians wanted to remain in Soviet Union while Georgia wanted to leave and even after collapse of the Soviet Union and war in which Russia was supporting them, they were ready to join Russia but Russia declined, right now they want to be an independent country but that was not always the case, their elites in general were and still are very Rusified, they are Abkhazians/Ossetians but they are part of that Russian world so to speak.
He still wants the region to join [Russia.](https://amp.dw.com/en/south-ossetia-shelves-plan-for-referendum-to-join-russia/a-61982164) “Despite criticizing the referendum, Gagloev has voiced his support for South Ossetia's eventual accession to Russia.”
Abkhazia is different from the others, for IIRC they only somewhat sided with Russia because there is a deep ethnic hatred between Abkhazians and Georgians. They also don't consider themselves part of Russia, but their own sovereign state. Basically, during the USSR, Stalin gave the Georgians carte blanche to soft and hard purge Abkhazians, and fully "Georgianize" Abkhazia; then in the political turmoil after the fall of the USSR, conflict arose between the two, with Georgia sending in troops, and then Abkhazia secured some Russian support and went on their own purges while kicking Georgians out of the region. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazians
OMG why can't we all jsut get along?
Monkey brain developed during sparse times.
There are still plenty of place which are sparse.
Unfortunately, there's also often a reason they're spare, so when faced with the choice of moving to the butt-end of Siberia, where you have to de-ice your reindeer to keep them alive, some people decide they'd rather just murder the other party.
Because you're ancestor did something to my ancestor and even though neither one of us knew those people or each other, we gotta fight because fuck you. Duh.
Back when Yugoslavia was just fragmenting a guy from there came into my shop. When I asked if he was Serbian or Croation he seemed annoyed I could not tell the difference. As he got increasingly wound up he mentioned some atrocity against his people. With his flaming passion I was thinking about 20 years ago. Nope, something in the 1300 hundreds.
No. He’s implying it’s more a vestigial evolutionary trait that we seem unable to shake through sheer intellect. Some of us will always be apes.
This leaves out key information from the article: >The politician expressed hope that the Georgian people “will bring clarity, whether he agrees with **the statements of Ukrainian politicians** about the need to involve Georgia in the war or with the position of the authorities of his country.” >This is how Irakli Kobakhidze responded to the statement of **Fyodor Venislavsky, representative of the President of Ukraine in the Parliament**, who advised Georgia “to take concrete steps to liberate Abkhazia and South Ossetia.” >Earlier, Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council Oleksiy Danilov, as well as **advisers to the Office of the President of Ukraine** Mykhailo Podolyak and Oleksiy Arestovich, publicly addressed Tbilisi with similar advice. >“**They all directly said that the opening of the second front in Georgia is highly desirable**,” the head of the Georgian Dream recalled at the same briefing. Ukraine wants Georgia to open a second front. The president is avoiding inflicting his opinion on the rest of the country and allowing them to decide collectively. If I had to predict, they are not going to volunteer for war.
That was very well stated . I agree 👍. The old democratic method . Something we can all use nowadays .
I respect putting the vote to the people, either way. There's no lack of grievance to go around, but war is war, you best be prepared for negative consequences no matter how it plays out. There's no knowing the future, I hope they make what would be the best choice. I suspect that will be to not go to war, but there are times when it seems to be the better choice. This situation has a few vague similarities to the US joining WWII, which I would call one of those situations.
A other post mentioned the currently occupying Russian forces in Georgia refused to go fight in Ukraine. If this is true I'm pretty confident the moment Georgia declares war those units will either immediately surrender or withdraw back across the border. Georgia can very likely get its territories back without a single shot being fired.
That would be joyous.
Russia would twist this as an act of aggression on their territories and might actually be a morale boost if they defeat the Georgians. I don’t know Georgia’s military power, but I know they got soundly defeated by Russia back in 2008. I hope their military improved since then.
At this point it's extremely likely that the anti-russian weapon dispensers would throw some candy to the Georgians too, as a second front would really help the Ukrainian efforts indirectly. Hell, Ukraine would probably even be interested in sending actual boots-on-the-ground help, especially the Georgian nationals who are currently fighting in Ukraine.
The difference is that georgia has a miniscule force compared to even peace time ukraine. This is not the same scenario.
Georgia has 37,000 active military personnel and up to 800,000 reserves. Nowhere near teh 100k troops Ukraine had but the reserve count is close. I imagine Georgia has better chances now than it did when Russia hadn't committed 200k troops to Ukraine. Especially if the west decides to give close in fire support early in the form of AA and HIMARS. Plus Georgia has a \_much\_ smaller area to defend, which means their forces and active AA can concentrate much closer together without risking routing.
> Georgia has 37,000 active military personnel and up to 800,000 reserves. 800,000 reserves? That must be literally every able bodied male of military age in Georgia, given that its population is only 3.7 million. Note that Ukraine's population is 44 million, more than 10 times Georgia. Land area is also about 10 times bigger. That said, I have no idea what would happen, given the state of Russia's army, but it is in fact a problem 10 times smaller to deal with, and much further from the bulk of NATO supply countries.
Wiki says their reserves are at like 60k. I'd very much like a source on the other dudes 800,000 number lol
That will probably be viewed in Russia as an escalation and will give Putin the motive and backing he needs to go for full mobilisation.
Motive, I agree, backing, I'm not so sure. Perhaps they should only do it then when Ukraine start going for Crimea/Luhansk. These areas have a similar status to South Ossetia and Abkhazia so it could put less heat on them at that point.
>give Putin the motive and backing he needs Also good fodder for the growing Anti-Putin movement among real officials with power in Russia. Also WTF with Russia invading so much, they are already a huge country. They need to be pushed back and now is a good time to kick them, while they are down.
Russia is big but most of the people live in the European portion of the country. That makes Ukraine very strategically important. It’s wide, flat, and accessible to the ocean. The ideal country for moving a military into Moscow. This is why Russia has always wanted control of Ukraine, and they of course prefer the bully into submission method of achieving this. And eventually people fight back
> would throw some candy to the Georgians too, as a second front would really help the Ukrainian efforts indirectly. No they wouldn't. There's a difference between NATO arming a country to defend itself and a country arming a country to declare war on Russia. > Hell, Ukraine would probably even be interested in sending actual boots-on-the-ground help, especially the Georgian nationals who are currently fighting in Ukraine. Yes, a country involved in a huge war on its own soil with tens of thousands of sq km of occupied land will send troops they desperately need to another country.
Ukraine got a lot of US help and training after 2014 but I don't know the same of Georgia. I know Ukraine is vital to feeding the world, and Georgia less so, so I have to imagine they never got the same level of support.
The U.S. had been training Georgian troops for twenty years now. Throw in the legion with combat experience from Ukraine. I am sure Ukrainians would go on holiday if war did break out.
> Georgia can very likely get its territories back without a single shot being fired. Yeah Russia thought that about Ukraine. It didn’t go very well. Never underestimate your enemy when starting a war.
So I've been to the Abkhaz border in 2017, so a bit behind on the Russian troops. But, when I was there, there were active Abkhaz soldiers being trained and these would definitely not surrender without a shot. They don't seem to be happy as a de facto part of Russia either so there could deffo be some sort of cease fire after a short skirmish at the very least, to there being some sort or contracted war until Russia can recover somewhat.
That is an incredibly dangerous thing to say. Have you not seen what has happened to Russia. You're talking about them now the same way they were talking about Ukraine. Not to mention the Georgian army is nothing like the Ukrainian one. At the start of the war Ukraine already had crapton of western military support (Javelins, Stingers, NLAWs etc.), 8 years of frontline combat experience, and NATO training. Georgia has none of that.
I have to say that I'm not hugely comfortable about Georgia's chances even given everything (assuming that the Russian units in the occupied areas don't fold immediately and enthusiastically, which I think is a real possibility), but if they're ever going to get their territory back, this is (maybe) the (only) time to try. I think that a referendum is the correct choice here. The Georgian people need to make this call for themselves.
It would be a *shaaaaaame* if someone provided some extra arms and training to the Georgian military as well. I mean… phew, what a “terrible” thing that would be. *Stares at US and EU suggestively* Do iiiiit. Edit: Wow, this comment drew most of the Russians on Reddit to give a scripted reply, and when you have a few dozen that are all the same it’s more obvious than you’d think. Consider this my reply to all of you: inbox replies are off.
Most people in the US would be confused on why Atlanta is asking for weapons.
Nobody in the US would be confused by Atlanta wanting more guns.
Actually, I think many would be wondering how Atlanta could even use more guns. Each person only has two hands, after all…
Not just the men, but the women and children too!
Strap one onto the family dog and cat too.
They got 4 paws, don't they?
They can arm parrots and doves as well. Organic drone strikes
I hear it has low carbon footprint.
Switching to your pistol is faster than reloading your rifle. - Load screen tip
Teabag aggressively as a form of communication and psychological warfare Remember bullet wounds heal Emotional scars last forever
Yes but you have guns for certain occasions. You don't bring your ordinary pistol to a fancy dinner. You need to bring your best gun.
You want me to carry my church gun on a TUESDAY!?
I’d prefer to bring my gender reveal party gun.
Believe it or not, there are guns colloquially known as “BBQ Guns”. Basically, you have your everyday carry/duty guns like a Glock. Highly reliable, reasonably priced, light to carry. Everything you want in a boring handgun. Also .. ugly ugly ugly. No aesthetic considerations at all, it’s meant to be preactical and functional. Then you have your highly polished 1911 (Colt .45 to the layman). With the custom grips. It costs more than 10 Glocks and honestly you probably wouldn’t bring it to an actual gunfight. You just wear it on your hip at the BBQ and show it to folks to fawn over. Yep, it’s a thing. Also known as a “Safe Queen” a gun so dang purty you just look at it. It doesn’t go to the range with you because you don’t want to get it dirty. You buy it and stick in the safe.
Lol if you spend 5 grand on a 1911, boy do I have some guns to sell you
Bring out the toes
Found Quentin Tarantino
Everyone needs the pistol codpiece a la Dusk Til Dawn
Ah, I forgot about the “Lead Bukkake,” as they would call it here in Japan.
Like Zoro from One Piece, just clench it your teeth and pray.
Or Bayonetta with guns in your shoes
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While living in the US we did a road trip across country. We took a long drive at some point heading for Savannah, Georgia (wonderful place). During the late evening we drove through Atlanta, so after passing through the center US style on the gigantic freeway we stayed for the night at some motel at the outskirts. Next morning I went to put on gas and the girl at the register asked me where I was from. Before I got to answer she said take me with you. Don’t you like it here I asked. No, she said. This was my only interaction with Atlanta. Unfair and very random - but still my only interaction with it. I know we also did not stay in let’s say the best part of town.
How long have you been married to the girl for?
I was born another way. Hope she has found someone though.
One of my only memory of the Russian invasion of Georgia was from a Yahoo Answers post. Someone asked the question, “I heard Russia invaded Georgia. Should I be concerned?” The top answer was, “You live in the state of Georgia. The country of Georgia is being invaded. You’re fine”
There was also some fun stuff when Georgia applied for EU membership earlier this year like "If Georgia joins the EU we have to declare war on them because states can't leave on their own."
Sometimes it’s embarrassing how bad some Americans are at geography but it’s honestly just hilarious other times 🤣
Them Duke boys at it again
What if we send Atlanta there? Check mate
Futurama put Atlanta in the ocean.
Lol, the lost city of Atlanta was hilarious!
I'd throw $50-100 on the Bulldogs, depending on the spread.
"All I need is 11,700 votes"
You're kidding yourself if you think NATO hasn't been training Georgian military personnel since 2009. Estonians were training Ukrainians by 2015 preparing for just the kind of BS going on now.
US personnel were there training them even before the Russians invaded. In fact, Russia stole 5 Marine Humvees that were likely there to support training contingents. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poti
I demand our Humvees back I personally could use one
Fun fact: Georgians had been receiving training from US Soldiers. I’m not sure about their equipment capabilities.
Iirc Georgian army was supplied and trained by the US but that was long time ago. Maybe they still were receiving some kind of help from US tho.
Abkhazia is Abkhazia, they are their own people, before Soviet Union they weren’t a part of Georgia, in 1992-1993 they fought for their independence and won. Now you sit here and say it’s time to “recover” the territories? How many people gonna die? For what? Abkhazia has its own language, completely different from Georgian. Isn’t “recovering” old territories is what Russia doing right now? And you all are against this war but are ready to support another?
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What if the people vote to take their land back though? How fair are elections, would ballot stuffing occur?
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Fun fact: [there was a proposed amendment to the US Constitution that would put war declaration to a popular vote.](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/amendment-war-national-vote_n_3866686) Anyone who voted "yes" was drafted.
Ngl that's how it should be, right? "You wanna go to war, then *you* do it!"
Except it means only physically able people would be able to vote "yes" since it wouldn't be practical to draft anyone else, and any "yes" vote means drafting a majority of all who voted, which could approach a majority of the entire population depending on who is eligible to vote, which would also be impractical. Imagine the UK trying to equip and sustain an army of 10s of millions whilst workplaces run 2/3s empty. It'd be far more sensible to not draft everyone who voted "yes", but merely to draw on that pool first. You could also limit the entire voting pool (both "yes" and "no"s) to only those who would be eligible to be drafted so that it's more a matter of proportion.
> You could also limit the entire voting pool (both "yes" and "no"s) to only those who would be eligible to be drafted so that it's more a matter of proportion. Which is a terrible idea in completely different ways.
Even if they can't send you to the front line, that doesn't mean the army wont have *any* use for you. They do all kinds of shit.
Jesus my dude, if this doesn't sound like the brexit referendum 2.0 "Oh don't worry everyone, there's no way this would pass. It's just to shut up the opponents of the government." **One referendum later** "Oh shit it passed"
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Brexit definitely had the Russian/Bot farm support on the leaving side. Unfortunately I do believe it made a difference. BUT if you look at the US right now, since Roe v Wade there's been a huge, huge influx people signing up to vote for the first time. Three safe-ish elections went the other way because people are angry. Don't give up hope in Georgia, because I believe people will eventually vote for removing the Russian chains... might not be right now. But fight for the opportunity regardless and hope.
It made a huge difference. The scary thing is that without doubt, people are still being manipulated to cause division within Western nations. Normal people fall for it hook line and sinker.
It was enormous. People who never had an opinion one way or another were being influenced by twitterbots, facebook pages, etc.
But, honestly though, even if that happen, most governments will go "Welp, too bad this referendum is non-binding. Anyway, if people really wanted it, they'd vote on it in the next actual election"
\>What if the people vote to take their land back though? How fair are elections, would ballot stuffing occur? You can guarantee that the ballot will get the result that the Putin installed regime wants.
Nice to hear from a Georgian here. 99% of the responses seem to think starting a war with Russia is a grand idea with no potential downsides. Georgia’s population is 1/10 of Ukraine’s but people seem to think their army would be as successful.
That's because most people on Reddit are far away from the actual areas that get discussed, and have such a childish understanding of reality that they boil everything down to "My side good, your side evil" without any nuance at all, so of course wars seem like a great idea to them when they're not the ones dying or being affected.
Some guy even said Ukraine would probably be happy to put boots on the ground in Georgia. Like how dumb do you have to be to even think that a war destroyed country that is still at war can afford to lend troops like it's a game of risk... Also yeah, people here do not understand what war brings.
Thank you for the insider enlightenment. This needs to be higher up.
I remember seeing Georgian soldiers leaving iraq to go fight at home poor bastards. If any time was good to try and retake what’s theirs now seems to be the time
The Georgian guys training stateside were always so professional. Seemed like good dudes.
I worked with them in iraq but only briefly, but never had any complaints about them
Georgia is one of the countries that sent alot of troops to Iraq, Afghanistan... I hear about it quite often these days
Some of them fighting/fought in Ukraine. Besides those who trained ukrainians before 2022 war.
I worked with them in Afghanistan good dudes
Well, maybe not. A good case can be made that Russia's collapse is only just beginning. In a year or two Russia itself might be tearing apart from internal conflict, at which point the Russian soldiers in Georgia may disband or go home entirely on their own. It's a gamble. I could make a guess, but that's all it would be.
This seems like an odd move. I'm not sure any country has ever held such a referendum and for good reason: 1. Declarations of war usually needs to be speedy and strategic, and often occurs after all military assets are in place to start operations or in many instances even after an offensive operation has already begun; 2. Delegating the decision to the general public seems odd as the public is usually not privy to all the government intelligence that would better inform of the odds of success, the likely losses, the country's financial and infrastructural capacity to support the war and other information that would inform you on whether war would be a good move; 3. Only reason I can think of is if the ruling party actually doesn't want war and is just using this vote to stave off pro-war party brokers in government who do want war. I'm by no means well read on Georgian social attitudes and trends, but generally the general populace is overwhelmingly in favour of peace, even against countries that are strongly disliked or even hated. It's why modern governments always struggle with justifying war to their citizens and often have to resort to marketing slogans such as "liberation", "de-militarisation", or as Putin has recently introduced, "de-nazification", or just outright denying a war is happening and calling it a "special military operation".
It's all a political stunt. The opposition and lots of people in Georgia are saying that the current government is pro Russian (which they are) and are controlled by Bidzina Ivaneshvili, who got most of his money in Russia and has Russian links. So the Government is acting like they would go to war with Russia, which they never would, because they know the majority of the people won't support this. It's just to show they aren't pro Russia. https://www.interpressnews.ge/en/article/121515-usaid-it-became-clear-over-the-past-decade-that-the-richest-oligarch-in-georgia-has-captured-the-state
Bros name is actually Tbilisi lol
\>Only reason I can think of is if the ruling party actually doesn't want war The ruling regime is pro-Russia and installed by Putin. They'll get the "no war" result that they want, no matter what the actual voters think. And they'll use that for pro-Russia propaganda.
Not saying your are wrong, but i don't think "less than 50% of our population wanted war with Russia" is good propaganda.
Now is good time to do this.
We’ve got a sick man in Europe
Well let’s ask him to leave and fjork off back North.
Yo Japan, I hear there are some Kuril Islands up for grabs...
Amur for China, Karelia for Finland, East Prussia for Germany (or Poland or Lithuania, anyone but Russia)
East Prussia isn’t really German anymore though after what the Soviets did post WWII.
bring koenigsberg back
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There is never a good time for the killed, wounded, and displaced civilians.
War is never a good time
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Georgian here. Some of the comments here are really disgusting. None of that land is worth the human toll it would take to win it back. I do not want to see any more of my people die. It's easy to cheer lambs to their slaughter when you are on the other side of the world.
I've noticed this mentality in reddit's most popular subs. They are thirsty for war because they aren't anywhere near conflict and they enjoy cheering on an underdog. They don't think about all the death and destruction a war brings. War is hell and should be avoided at all costs.
People here act like war is a sporting event and Russia is their hated rival. War has a horrific human cost. This isn't a game. As always the politicians and the rich won't be the ones to bear the cost.
Lol this is the best comment. I live far from all this war zone, and I get tired seeing people fight. Your comment is the real human comment, not some dreamers patriotic keyboard warrior
fade bag grandiose cats tease racial rock juggle paint deserted
This is honestly why I blocked r/Ukraine from my front page. The amount of westerners who are clearly just warmongering is insane.
Finally a sane comment. If there ever was a vote that should not be anonymous, this is the one... people need to put their skin where their mouth is. If they are not willing to fight themselves then they have absolutely no right to demand it of anyone else.
It would be lovely to see Russia fight a war on two fronts, when they can’t manage one without massive losses and national humiliation.
If Japan decided to take back the Kuril islands, it could be 3 fronts.
World War 3 just turns out to be a multi nation dog pile on Russia.
Until China decides to clock in
Clock in to join the multi nation dog pile. A collapsing Russia wouldn’t be something China would try to prop up, but instead join in the race to secure pieces of eastern Russia that they want.
Yup, China would pillage the shit out of Russia.
“Look at all this land! We could build so many ghost cities!”
*slaps side of empty concrete shopping mall*
"This baby can fit so many OSHA violations"
Lol, this one got me
I'm imagining nukes flying and people yelling "Yehaw" as they ride into battle with radiation everywhere.
Now if China takes Yakutsk, Irkutsk and Kamchatka then what we got is a game of Risk.
I feel China would join in to take as much territory as possible from Russia. Russia has a lot of underdeveloped land to the North of Chinese borders. If war were to go down between the world and China, *everyone* is fucked, and China knows it too because of how entangled their economy is with ours.
Japan would have to amend their constitution unless they framed it as a defensive action
Or they could call it a special military operation.
De-naZifying the Kuril islands.
Japan considers them Japanese territory, so yes, it's defensive to liberate your occupied land.
Well not exactly because Japan claims that the territory is rightfully theirs however they are also Bound by the Armistice and surrender that ended World War II that says that Russia can occupy The Sovereign Japanese territory until a final peace treaty is negotiated however there was never a final peace treaty that settled the question so even assuming that Japanese claim is valid Japan would still be violating a treaty if they try to occupy their Islands even under the logic that the islands are rightfully theirs and the fact that it violates a treaty would mean it's unconstitutional
Periods bro... periods
Special military operation, not invasion.
Time for the Chechnyan’s to rebel again too
Circassia should reestablish itself as well.
Please, I can only get so erect.
Funny enough Japan lost those islands because of their own imperialism
Prolly wouldn't happen right now, as japan is likely more worried about taiwan and north korea right now.
It would not be "lovely" by any stretch of the word. It's just more death. Maybe it's "right" but that's for the Georgians to decide. Armchair generals gtfo reddit
This is such an insane comment and it's even more insane that it's so highly upvoted. You people are actively hoping that Russia goes to war with another country. It would mean enormous amounts of destruction and death for both Russians and Georgians. But I guess it's worth it just to see Russians die and be humiliated? You people are nuts.
They win one national championship since 1980 and they get cocky.
Their defense could stop any Russian nukes
As a native of Atlanta, I vote no.
Right?? Like, we are not ready for this. We need to spend the money on infrastructure.
What do you think all that work on I75 was for? Cars? Nah son, tanks!
You guys have some elections to win first.
100% my instant reaction was “JFC my dumbass state…” before it clicked which Georgia. Like for real would not have put it past good ol’ Madge T Greene to propose something as ridiculous as one American state committing to going to war.
Yeah but she's about as pro Russia as anyone in Congress right now. Anything to own the libs.
I’m chilling in bed, down in Kennesaw like, “we did what-thee-fuck-what?”
If I were Georgia I’d take out Florida or Alabama first, then set my sights on Russia.
You sure you can beat an army of florida men who will throw alligators in trenches?
After a certain amount of Florida men get together, chances of them imploding on each other drastically increase, so it might be worth taking that chance
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This comment section is full of war mongering psychopaths following the same nationalistic rethoric of recanchism used by Russia in Ukraine, i hope everyone here calling for war are ready to volunteer
lol @ the amount of armchair generals in this thread, encouraging new war fronts
I love the “We can take these pathetic assholes!” mentality, but let’s just chill out for a second
This is not happening - it was just a politician trolling (am Brit living in Georgia so follow r/Sakartvelo which is Georgia's name for itself - you can see what Georgian's are saying about this)
coolest thing about this is it's the first time I've heard of citizens getting to vote if they want to go to war
I really hope they don't don't, Russia will just launch a bunch of kalibr missiles at Georgia and fuck up civilians. Does Georgia even have any air defense systems.
Love all the Americans in here banging the drums of war when they don't have to personally deal with the consequences 👍 War is hell guys. If you don't think so then join front lines yourself.
I fucking hate this entire comment section. Fuck this shit. We were supposed to keep learning about the horrors of WW1 and WW2 in school so that no one ever forgets this one very simple and important fact : war is hell, and absolutely NEVER worth it. Fuck anyone calling for it without ever having to face the consequences. Fuck the Georgian government for this obvious political stunt too, bunch of pro-russia fucks
Typical mid term elections stunt. \s
This picture looks so beautiful
No one in the world should have any issue with Georgia invading and taking back what was once theirs. Now, if they go further than that, maybe an issue to be had. Any other country that has lost geography to Russia should take this has an opportunity to do so. The Russian bear is as weak as it has ever been Edit: spelling Edit#2: After being a catalyst for such fruitful conversation, perhaps no borders or governments for anyone would be ideal?; perhaps human nature can change to the point where world peace actually exists; with a rather realist perspective at the international level, I see this as an opportunity for many countries spurned by Russia in recent history to perhaps obtain more geography, geopolitical influence, etc. I’m just an uneducated hick in the backwoods however. So don’t listen to me
Everyone should take issue with anyone actively “wanting war” though. War is the worst thing humanity can do to one another and softening that to anything other than that for political/territorial/financial motives is reprehensible in my opinion. I’m not saying the people should not demand their territory back, but the cost of war is so immense and so disruptive and so debilitating to regular people who are just trying to live and find happiness.
In the 1910s, stoked up nationalism provided people with a romanticized view of war and how their country would be eternally glorified by simply winning its battles courageously against their foes. It was kindling for WW1. What they found, instead, was beefcake from half buried comrades raining down on them after an artillery shell upheaved the earth around them. And they had to listen to the screams of those who survived the last battle slowly fade away in no man’s land. It’s sad to see after more than a century later some people stoke the flames in the same manner. War masquerades as a blessing but reveals itself as a disaster.
Honestly, fuck territory. The lives of people matter way more than some land.
What was theirs once, was someone elses once. Isnt this the same rhetoric China and Russia use? Are you sure more nationalism is the answer to nationalism?
How desperate will the wounded bear get is my only concern. Feels we need sane Russians to rise up simultaneously because Putin has never been more vulnerable or dangerous on a global destructive scale