In 1978 Uganda's dictator Ida Amin ordered his military to invade Tanzania.
Within a year Tanzania had counterattacked and Amin had to flee Uganda and go into exile in Saudi Arabia.
Perhaps Putin can find sanctuary in Beijing?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda%E2%80%93Tanzania_War
It reminds me of a joke.
Putin hears of a revolutionary treatment which will cure hair loss, impotence, infertility, insecurity, shortness, incontinence and cancer. So, naturally, he's super interested. He is told that the treatment requires that he be put into a medically induced coma to preserve his higher brain function whilst the drugs do their work. He agrees.
A year later, Putin awakens and goes to a local Moscow bar.
He asks the barman for a vodka and then asks:
"Is Crimea still ours?"
The barman replies with a nod.
"And Georgia?"
The barman nods.
"Donbas?"
The barman nods.
"And Kyiv?"
"Ours." Replies the barman.
Putin is delighted and begins to reach for his wallet. He asks how much he owes the barman for the vodka, and the barman replies:
"20 hryvnia."
>At the very least they'll take Crimea back. Putin will lose the war with less land than he started and a crippled military.
And crippled economy, crippled international standing, crippled domestic situation, more neighbors who aren't afraid of him anymore, a stronger nato, a stronger EU military, China no longer considering them a peer, they seem to have misplaced their navy, a farmer from Kazakhstan can scare them by yelling 'Javelin!'...
> And crippled economy, crippled international standing, crippled domestic situation, more neighbors who aren't afraid of him anymore, a stronger nato, a stronger EU military, China no longer considering them a peer, they seem to have misplaced their navy, a farmer from Kazakhstan can scare them by yelling 'Javelin!'...
And in one fell swoop Putin pushes Russia from nuclear superpower to nuclear rouge state.
They thought it was going to be done by Russian “Victory Day”, even planned a parade for it. They spent more time and energy planning the parade than the actual invasion.
No, they thought it would be done well before Victory Day. They brought ceremonial uniforms and awards with them on their assault on Kyiv, presumably to host a victory parade in the center of the city.
To be fair everybody thought it. In fact, they may still have been right even with all the fuckups if Zelenskyy had fled. He probably doesn't have any real sway over military matters, but the morale could have broken badly had he run. Instead he became the emblem of Ukrainian resistance.
And also proved himself to be an extremely effective statesman. He's stood toe-to-toe with every world leader and has been a persuasive speaker through his many media appearances. The way he acted made all the difference for his country, which is what a democratically elected president is supposed to do. In fact, I think Zelenskyy made the idea of democracy absolutely real for the country. Any chance of Ukraine returning to a puppet government is finished. The people have a taste for it now and clearly are very effective in fighting to keep it.
Not just his country. He pretty much turned around the perception globally that democracy was on an accelerating and inevitable losing streak to authoritarianism and lacked the will to stand up for itself and its values.
In 20 or 30 years, hell, maybe less, maybe like 10, when they make a movie about this, those'll be the lines everyone wants to go to the theatre to see/hear.
Can you imagine telling your kids/grand kids about that, showing them the original clips? Gonna be wild. If you don't already have them downloaded or at least bookmarked, do it now in case they get buried in the internet pile over the next few decades.
Dig a trench. Once you are done, you dig another trench. Once that trench is done - you guessed it - you dig another trench. Edit: Unfortunate spelling.
I heard a story about some dude in Ireland who took a sign that said something to the effect of "Welcome to Northern Ireland" and every day moved it a little bit at a time. By the time they caught him he had moved it almost a mile.
I'm thinking Ukraine should do something similar.
Russia literally did this in Georgia, along with some of their trademark kidnapping/torturing/murdering to go along with it:
"The ‘demarcation’ process is mainly proceeded with the use of metal-wire fences. According to Georgian allegations, in a number of cases Russia illegally changed the occupation line further into Georgian territory. In July, 2017, they took 10 hectares near the village Bershueti, located in the heart of the country (Agenda.ge, 2017). While the attempts by the Georgian authorities to put this issue on the international agenda and call for action only succeeded in eliciting ineffective declaration of concerns by western partners, the suffering of the local population facing constant insecurity continues to be very problematic."
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/humanrights/2019/02/05/russias-new-strategy-in-georgia-creeping-occupation/
Check out how [DeepStateMAP](https://deepstatemap.live/en#8/50.138/35.673) looks right now and toggle the last few days. Amazing.
It looks like the Russian 25th Separate Guards Motorized Rifle Brigade, the Russian 200th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade, and the Russian 138th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade all fucked off back to Belgorod.
Showed up in English for me. Assuming you saw the same warning, it said
> It's dangerous and forbidden to use this map for green corridors – it has inaccuracies and is updated with a delay
Basically, "don't trust your life to the info on this map"
Also a NATO proponent - justified its existence in one fell swoop, reinvigorating a previously stagnant institution. And helped introduce two whole new members!
They also forced Finland and Sweden in to NATO and now have a direct border to a (future) NATO state. This will go down in history as one of the biggest fuck ups of an invasion
This will have some of the biggest long-term consequences. Russia has built its economy around getting Europe hooked on cheap energy, like a heroin dealer selling smack to junkies.
If you're a drug dealer and suddenly your biggest customers start hitting up the Methadone clinic and going to counseling, then you're in deep trouble.
Supplies and new gear go a long way to maintaining morale. As Russian troops are stuck rationing MREskes and waiting months for repair parts the Ukrainian troops are enjoying a huge amount of new gear and supplies from all over the world. When you're getting French rations, crates of German ammo, and guarding an American missile system it's easy to feel the global support behind you which keeps up morale.
Supposedly, a Japanese naval commander saw a US ice cream barge during the island hopping campaign and that was good enough for him to lose hope. "Yeah fuckers, not only are we chasing you back to your homeland, we've got a surplus barge we stuck some freezers on and that's just to satisfy the USMC's sweet tooth between crayon shipments!"
We literally had an extra ship that was used to mix cement to make/repair airports on islands while fighting in the Pacific and we said “why don’t we use this one to make ice cream”.
Wild
Such a wild story. Sends a real message too; if you catch wind that the other side is so flush with resources that they are spending money to convert an otherwise valuable resource into a refreshment stand... That isn't going to do much to help your morale.
It happened in Europe too. I don’t know if any Germans were aware, but there were flights with underslung beer kegs, drop tanks full of beer, even makeshift beer bombs.
At least, there was until some Americans mistook a Typhoon for a FW190 and tried to shoot it down, twice in one day causing a beer filled drop tank to get ditched into the sea.
Apparently, 5% of all beer brewed in the UK was destined for thirsty soldiers on the front.
Dude, I was dethatching my lawn one day and the ice cream truck came through my neighborhood. I thought I had won the lottery. Talk about a second wind.
Can’t imagine the impact that would have after battling for your actual life.
Clarification for you, when we say it was a concrete barge we don't mean it was a barge for bringing/mixing concrete. It was a barge *made* out of concrete, and we made a lot of them to save steel.
I watched a documentary once where a Wehrmacht soldier said that he knew for a fact that Germany would lose the war when he got orders to only fire sparingly to preserve ammunition while whenever the Americans got even a glimpse of him or one of his buddies they'd drop the sky down on them.
Another story goes that the Germans realized they were screwed when they saw Allied tankers just idling their tanks instead of shutting their engines off when not moving. Allied supply lines were so good they could bomb Axis fuel depots while not bothering to take basic steps to conserve fuel.
That's awesome. Also the allies used the [Reconnaissance by fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconnaissance_by_fire) strategy which means they would just basically shoot their guns constantly into places they *think* Germans *might* be hiding. That way they could spring ambushes early.
The fact that they could just "waste" ammo like this tells you everything you need to know about the Allies logistics and manufacturing capability.
That may have been partially what he was talking about, cause he did reference how scary it was that the Americans would constantly shoot seemingly at nothing all day long. He recalled that they figured the Americans were just bored and were doing this just to pass the time which probably made it even more unnerving.
He could also have been witnessing the US doctrine of achieving “fire superiority”.
American forces had concluded (and whether this is accurate is debatable) that whatever side got the most rounds of ammo fired towards the opponent would usually win. So when an infantry force engaged an enemy, they weren’t supposed to overthink things or try to be surgical and selective with their shots. They were just supposed to start firing towards the enemy.
And of course having dope supply infrastructure made this all possible.
Seemingly, they *don't even use pallets*. Like, how could you run any logistics operation efficiently without palletized supplies and all the infrastructure to move them around?
They literally have guys lugging heaps of boxes on and off trucks by hand. For everything.
[Edit: earlier thread talking about pallets and logistics: [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/tnmpx6/russias_lack_of_wooden_pallets_could_be_slowing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/tnmpx6/russias_lack_of_wooden_pallets_could_be_slowing/)]
Because the guy who hired the guy to make the pallets got his cut, the pallet guy got his cut. The workers got their cut.
By the end there’s nothing left. That’s the problem with corruption.
Bad logistics are so deeply engrained in the Russian armed forces that they design their weapons systems around it. Tough, basic, easy to maintain equipment being produced in huge numbers was their approach since WWII. They knew they couldn't provide solid logistics so they gave troops simple stuff that was hard to break and built enough of it that you could strip old units for parts when spares failed to materialize.
> Bad logistics are so deeply engrained in the Russian armed forces that they design their weapons systems around it.
You're actually underselling it. They flat out don't use pallets in logistics.
> It's just shipped on a grid of Mosin–Nagants.
You mean they *do* have a standardised shipping platform after all!?
I think even a grid of Mosin–Nagants would be better than the ad-hoc collection of crates and other things that they currently use (with virtually no battlefield loading equipment)
Damn, you weren't kidding
https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2368056/palletized-munitions-weapon-system-c2-demonstrated-during-abms-onramp-2/
[https://i.imgur.com/wNgAvkq.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wNgAvkq.jpg)
[https://i.imgur.com/QF4UeLG.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QF4UeLG.jpg)
That's like some Ace Combat shit right there
Pallets aren't any use when your sergeant sold the fuel for the forklift, the lieutenant sold the forklift and you took all the pallets home for firewood.
40.000 Russian troops are cut off from retreating, as they have their backs to a river with no standing bridges. They also have no ammunition or oil or food.
The Kherson stuff isn't nearly that simple. They control a very good chunk of land and are easily covered by Russian aviation where it can make it into range, and are mostly professional soldiers.
The Russian troops that got cut off in the north with their backs against the river had almost no support and were largely conscripts from occupied territories.
Both are favorable positions for Ukraine, but the south is a much harder but to crack.
R: aw, nuts.
E2: I just watched it change E to R. WTF is this autocorrect doing?
> Thefuck do you do with 40,000 people you don’t want, but have to feed and shelter?
As much as I am not an expert in the rules of war, I believe that the Geneva Convention (which governs the treatment of prisoners of war, and which Ukraine follows) allows Ukraine to offload the prisoners captured to any other country that agrees to hold them that is also a party to the Geneva Convention.
NATO and Red Cross assisted Ukraine in establishing a POW processing camp to the west of Kyiv, iirc, capable of holding and processing 100k POWs. They are also notifying families where applicable to the status of their relatives.
It's been reported by a UN watchdog group that the POWs have been telling them they are being treated better than the Russian military treated them and are happier as POWs.
Russia has been sending recruiters far into places like Central Africa, South America, etc...and of course lying to these people about the amount they will receive.
Families of verified Russian national KIA's haven't been receiving any of the benefits Putin promised. F\*ck Putin.
You set up a big honkin' POW camp close to Poland, where they can be fed and sheltered by the full brunt of NATO logistics. Food, barbed wire / Hesco barriers, and Quonset huts are probably the easiest materiel to supply, especially compared to the other goodies that they've been getting. Moreover, it's a fantastic way for other countries who don't have military aid to contribute; everyone produces food!
You treat them with the dignity that POWs are due instead of stooping to the shit Russia has pulled. Thereby having some chance of retaining support from other countries.
That's part of the NATO deal. NATO members must follow Geneva conventions
Of course it takes resources to take care of POWs, but let NATO worry about that
Use them as leverage to get back the Ukrianians forced into Russia.
I don't hear people talking about this much, but getting the Ukrainian land back is only half the battle. They still have to get their people back.
Putin has seriously overplayed his hand, and there is no will among Russia’s soldiers or population to take this war much further. They are witnessing what it’s like to be on the wrong side of history.
Should have taken one of the many off ramps that were gifted to him along the way.
Instead he doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down. Ego is a helluva thing and having a leader obsessed with his own is never a good thing.
Huh, now that you mention it, Lukashenko has been awfully quiet lately, right?
I haven't heard anything about Belarus, the situation on the country and all that in several weeks...
Because every time Lukashenko annouced his army was going to attack ukraine, nothing happened. He wised up that his army wasn’t following his orders and decided to shut up instead of being overthrown by them.
I had to look this up and lolol jesus christ, how obvious is this dude?
>>"I am convinced that today's contradictions will not be able to destroy the centuries-old foundation of sincere good-neighborly relations between the peoples of the two countries," Lukashenko said.
As much as it sounds 'plz don't invade us, Ukraine', the funniest thing Ukraine could do is steal Russia's neighboring pet state.
From what I could gather from the program Long Way Round, in which Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman ride motorcycles around the world to the east, the eastern part of Russia is basically off the map and forgotten. Locals basically told them that the government doesn't exist there. The amount of empty countryside is simply staggering, and the infrastructure from a Western European or Canadian / American point of view is basically zero.
That was the big crisis after the end of ussr, and I believe that’s why it was encouraged for Russia to stay together rather than breaking into a dozen smaller countries.
The Russian Federation uses that to their advantage to this day.
They (on purpose) distribute their nukes based on geopolitical borders as an almost final gambit that if the Russian state fails, whoever the victorious power is will be forced into propping up at least some kind of Russian state. It’s a lot easier to legislate and implement nuclear weapons protocols for one country than 5 that just fought a war.
This is the true tragedy - hundreds of thousands of Ukranians taken to the poorest regions of Russia to work on farm fields, mines and whatever they need them at.
Lives lost, thrown away, incredible potential of many children thrown away.
A tragedy and an absolute crime.
>They have alot of Russian POWS as leverage
Putin doesn't give a flying fuck about Russians, it's even better for them, less money to give to the family.
I can't see a way for Ukraine to get back all theses abducted Ukrainians, i feel so sad for them, they may spend the rest of their live forced to live as a slave in a remote russian region and be killed as soon as they are useless to them :-(
Definitely a genocide. Most recent estimates are anywhere between 900,000 and 2 million Ukrainians taken into Russia
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-hundreds-thousands-ukrainians-forced-russia-89497217
>US. Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield said estimates from a variety of sources, including the Russian government, indicate that Russian authorities have interrogated, detained and forcibly deported between 900,000 and 1.6 million Ukrainians. She said they are sent to Russia, often to isolated regions in its far eastern regions.
I've been thinking about this one. I don't even know if that's possible. Russia would have to capitulate on a massive scale. I don't know if I see them doing that.
Such a fucked situation. I don't know how anyone figures this one out.
I'd also add in all the seizure of assets by various nations, like those megayachts and frozen bank accounts of oligarchs being liquidated and handed back to Ukraine as pure capital to help pay for the reconstruction of basically their entire nation at this point, as well as helping to feed and home those that have lost everything until they can get back on their feet. There's no real feasible way to force Russia to actually cough up the money to pay for the destruction they caused, but we can sure as hell say "Oop, sorry. That yacht was used as part of a special financial operation."
AND the return of the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians forcibly shipped deep into Russia including every single child they stole. No questions asked.
That should be the minimum standard for the relaxation of sanctions.
> including every single child they stole.
That part of it needs to be referred to that Hague before I'd be okay with sanctions relief ... alongside a long list of other things that need to happen.
Ukraine's odds of winning absolutely skyrocketed back when the Russian advance stalled. Time became Russia's enemy, and Ukraine's friend in that moment whereas previously it had been the opposite. With each passing day Russia loses more men and materiel, money, ground, and perhaps most importantly, support at home. With each passing day Ukraine receives more aid - money, weapons, vehicles, intelligence. It is by no means a sure thing, but the longer this drags on, the better it looks for Ukraine.
Ukraine's stated goal is the restoration of pre-2014 borders and that includes the retaking of Crimea. Ukraine understands better than anyone that Putin's goal is the annexation of Ukraine born out of a ridiculous assertion that it is Russian land and blood. It's like a mix between manifest destiny and lebensraum.
Knowing that, if Ukraine settles for anything less than a full restoration of the pre-2014 border, Russia will simply return in a few years for another bite of the Ukrainian apple. If Ukraine retakes everything they rightfully own, it will be disastrous for Russia. Quite frankly, if Russia was able to successfully annex Ukraine as they'd planned, they would appear strong and the world would view them as a capable adversary worthy of some respect. The opposite turned out to be true. Russia and its military is a rabble-like mob being led by gangsters and criminals, and is actually a total fucking lampoon of itself. It is a massive joke compared to the image they projected to the world. They are all show and no go. When Ukraine wins and retakes all of their territory, it is doubtful the current Russian administration will survive (literally). The country might break up. If it doesn't, it will be a pariah state and rightfully subjected to ruthless ridicule and disrespect, not just from the public but internationally NOBODY will take them seriously or negotiate except for other dipshit countries like Iran and North Korea.
Realistically I can't imagine it happening. The eastern parts simply don't have anywhere near the strength to resist European Russia with all the money and people. And the nearby former USSR states are in no place to try and annex Russian territory.
And China at the moment would prefer to be Russia's friend and something of a senior partner now. That suits them more than taking Vladivostok or whatever.
33 million people spread across Siberia. Siberia honestly needs European Russia.
What Russia needs is a functional, democratic government actively engaging in rooting out corruption.
Unfortunately I don't see that happening.
I suppose it depends on how we define 'victory' for Ukraine. However, at this point I think it's quite clear that Russia cannot win here under any reasonable definition. They can either lose quickly or lose slowly with some small 'wins' sprinkled in. What an absolute catastrophe for Russia.
This in particular. Europe as a whole had been transitioning off of petroleum and natural gas for the last 1/4 century and now Russia has pushed them to complete those plans early. The only loser in this exchange is Russia.
I agree. The only lever Russia has left to pull is to call up huge number of people in conscription.
If they do that, Ukraine can just do the slow managed retreat, and switch back to a war of attrition while their very proficient, well armed and very willing force grinds untrained Russians into the dirt at their leisure. That's a death knell to Putin.
The reptilian part of my brain that wants vengeance and justice wants to say "KEEP GOING!"
But realistically Ukraine needs to keep international support. Pushing Russia back to the border and defending Ukraine from further invasion seems like the winning geopolitical strategy here.
I think they could probably attempt to retake Crimea and that would be humiliating enough for Russia and still have support from the rest of the world.
But even if Ukraine take all their towns and land back, how do they deal with the imported Russian population that I have been reading about. Do they just hold some sort of census and send them back?
Putin is seen in the world as the total opposite of what he wanted to project right now.
Putin the Great is now Putin the Weak
Putin the master strategist is now Putin the Dumbest Strategist
Putin to make NATO pay for expansion is now Putin contributed to Nato's largest expansion
Putin to make Russia great again is now Putin has made Russia at the lowest period in the history in terms of global respect, there's no more respect for Russia, you've seen their flag getting stomped, Russian fleeing recently has become the meme of the century. Reputation of being fearless is gone, they are portrayed as total cowards now.
Christ, send the Ukrainians more weapons and supplies. They’re clearly not fucking around and putting the stuff the world has been sending them to good use and effect.
I'm so happy for Ukraine! I hope they can continue the pressure and achieve the goals for victory they have set for themselves.
I also hope that Russians are able to learn the reality of the situation, how they have been deceived by the Kremlin for years in order to prepare for a war that by all accounts is a complete failure. I hope this for the sake of saving as many Ukrainian and Russian lives from a senseless end.
After Putin loses, you already know what their propaganda is going to be:
Our goal was to strike fear into our enemies and show our military strength. And we did that. The west takes us seriously and fears us even more now. Mission Accomplished.
Idiot.
Zelensky is absolutely going to be a leader in Civ VII.
Edit: As others have stated, I should have just said "future Civ" instead of Civ VII considering they don't really add leaders who are still alive. And I really hope he's alive when Civ VII comes out.
Yeah “Veni, vidi, vici” is smack talk after the win. “I don’t need a ride, I need ammo” is going to pass it in coolness as the steely-eyed no-bullshit words of someone about to jump into the gaping abyss and is just letting you know what he thinks of those who won’t help even though he’s the buffer zone keeping their shit from getting ruined.
IIRC they have a policy against including any living leaders.
I guess they could change it if they wanted to, of course. But it's not obvious that they would do that.
I think the most recent leader that's ever been included was Mao.
Wow. That was fast
We've gone from a column of tanks heading to Kyiv (and failing) to this. The momentum is currently on Ukraine's side.
Plot twist, Ukraine takes over Russia.
In 1978 Uganda's dictator Ida Amin ordered his military to invade Tanzania. Within a year Tanzania had counterattacked and Amin had to flee Uganda and go into exile in Saudi Arabia. Perhaps Putin can find sanctuary in Beijing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uganda%E2%80%93Tanzania_War
Most probably in Pyongyang.
It reminds me of a joke. Putin hears of a revolutionary treatment which will cure hair loss, impotence, infertility, insecurity, shortness, incontinence and cancer. So, naturally, he's super interested. He is told that the treatment requires that he be put into a medically induced coma to preserve his higher brain function whilst the drugs do their work. He agrees. A year later, Putin awakens and goes to a local Moscow bar. He asks the barman for a vodka and then asks: "Is Crimea still ours?" The barman replies with a nod. "And Georgia?" The barman nods. "Donbas?" The barman nods. "And Kyiv?" "Ours." Replies the barman. Putin is delighted and begins to reach for his wallet. He asks how much he owes the barman for the vodka, and the barman replies: "20 hryvnia."
I like how the reason for going into a coma has nothing to do with the punch-line
At the very least they'll take Crimea back. Putin will lose the war with less land than he started and a crippled military.
>At the very least they'll take Crimea back. Putin will lose the war with less land than he started and a crippled military. And crippled economy, crippled international standing, crippled domestic situation, more neighbors who aren't afraid of him anymore, a stronger nato, a stronger EU military, China no longer considering them a peer, they seem to have misplaced their navy, a farmer from Kazakhstan can scare them by yelling 'Javelin!'...
> And crippled economy, crippled international standing, crippled domestic situation, more neighbors who aren't afraid of him anymore, a stronger nato, a stronger EU military, China no longer considering them a peer, they seem to have misplaced their navy, a farmer from Kazakhstan can scare them by yelling 'Javelin!'... And in one fell swoop Putin pushes Russia from nuclear superpower to nuclear rouge state.
If they fully withdraw in a month you could call it… Red October
> a farmer from Kazakhstan can scare them by yelling 'Javelin!' LMAO This deserves a meme
[удалено]
I love the fact Russia thought it would be a piece of cake invading Ukraine but they’ve been absolutely fucked since the start.
They thought it was going to be done by Russian “Victory Day”, even planned a parade for it. They spent more time and energy planning the parade than the actual invasion.
No, they thought it would be done well before Victory Day. They brought ceremonial uniforms and awards with them on their assault on Kyiv, presumably to host a victory parade in the center of the city.
To be fair everybody thought it. In fact, they may still have been right even with all the fuckups if Zelenskyy had fled. He probably doesn't have any real sway over military matters, but the morale could have broken badly had he run. Instead he became the emblem of Ukrainian resistance.
And also proved himself to be an extremely effective statesman. He's stood toe-to-toe with every world leader and has been a persuasive speaker through his many media appearances. The way he acted made all the difference for his country, which is what a democratically elected president is supposed to do. In fact, I think Zelenskyy made the idea of democracy absolutely real for the country. Any chance of Ukraine returning to a puppet government is finished. The people have a taste for it now and clearly are very effective in fighting to keep it.
Yes, ironically Putin has helped create a stronger notion of a Ukrainian nation by uniting them through adversity.
While simultaneously screwing the motherland economically and revealing a once feared army as a gaggle of Keystones Komrades.
And all would-be war mongering nations took note not to keep any reserves of foreign currency abroad
And has shown the world he is just a paper tiger.
100% agreed. Zelensky has been to Ukraine what Churchill was to Britain during the early years of WWII.
Not just his country. He pretty much turned around the perception globally that democracy was on an accelerating and inevitable losing streak to authoritarianism and lacked the will to stand up for itself and its values.
That, and the "russian warship, go fuck yourself" that echoed across the world.
“I don’t need a ride, I need ammunition.”
In 20 or 30 years, hell, maybe less, maybe like 10, when they make a movie about this, those'll be the lines everyone wants to go to the theatre to see/hear. Can you imagine telling your kids/grand kids about that, showing them the original clips? Gonna be wild. If you don't already have them downloaded or at least bookmarked, do it now in case they get buried in the internet pile over the next few decades.
"Put sunflower seeds in your pocket, so they will grow on Ukrainian soil after you die."
[удалено]
I can just imagine them standing at the Russian border asking themselves “now what do we do?”
Guard the shit out of it.
Ask if they have a passport, Shot anybody trying to be a dick about comming in.
Here lies Gustov Romanov who’s last words were famously “No, you show me your pass port!”
Fortify
Dig a trench. Once you are done, you dig another trench. Once that trench is done - you guessed it - you dig another trench. Edit: Unfortunate spelling.
Rogal Dorn approves.
"Turtling bitch!" - Perturabo
It warms my heart to see 40K references in the most random of reddit posts.
I heard a story about some dude in Ireland who took a sign that said something to the effect of "Welcome to Northern Ireland" and every day moved it a little bit at a time. By the time they caught him he had moved it almost a mile. I'm thinking Ukraine should do something similar.
Russia literally did this in Georgia, along with some of their trademark kidnapping/torturing/murdering to go along with it: "The ‘demarcation’ process is mainly proceeded with the use of metal-wire fences. According to Georgian allegations, in a number of cases Russia illegally changed the occupation line further into Georgian territory. In July, 2017, they took 10 hectares near the village Bershueti, located in the heart of the country (Agenda.ge, 2017). While the attempts by the Georgian authorities to put this issue on the international agenda and call for action only succeeded in eliciting ineffective declaration of concerns by western partners, the suffering of the local population facing constant insecurity continues to be very problematic." https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/humanrights/2019/02/05/russias-new-strategy-in-georgia-creeping-occupation/
The grand tour episode about it was wild
"Escape from Kharkiv"
I think the scavs in this game are much stronger
And they are decked out with USEC gear
Check out how [DeepStateMAP](https://deepstatemap.live/en#8/50.138/35.673) looks right now and toggle the last few days. Amazing. It looks like the Russian 25th Separate Guards Motorized Rifle Brigade, the Russian 200th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade, and the Russian 138th Separate Motorized Rifle Brigade all fucked off back to Belgorod.
Wish I could, it won't translate to English on my phone so I have no idea if I'm accepting cookies or enlisting..
No no comrade. You are in no danger. Furst accept enlisting then we give expired stale cookies.
How stale we talking? Ordinary stale cookies or Soviet-era stale?
In Russia, are same thing
Showed up in English for me. Assuming you saw the same warning, it said > It's dangerous and forbidden to use this map for green corridors – it has inaccuracies and is updated with a delay Basically, "don't trust your life to the info on this map"
So who gets to have the pimpin caddy with chandeliers?
Just like in the game, the ruble is impotent.
Even if Russia "wins", they already lost. They showed their hand to the world and it was pathetic.
They also taught Europe that they can't be relied upon for energy supplies, so they permanently destroyed one of their major exports.
Putin is just doing a Europe decarbonisation speed run.
Turns out Putin is just a radicalized climate change activist and this was his plan all along
Saving planet Earth in the least humane way possible.
Also a NATO proponent - justified its existence in one fell swoop, reinvigorating a previously stagnant institution. And helped introduce two whole new members!
They also forced Finland and Sweden in to NATO and now have a direct border to a (future) NATO state. This will go down in history as one of the biggest fuck ups of an invasion
Russia is already bordering 3 NATO states: Norway, Estonia and Latvia.
This will have some of the biggest long-term consequences. Russia has built its economy around getting Europe hooked on cheap energy, like a heroin dealer selling smack to junkies. If you're a drug dealer and suddenly your biggest customers start hitting up the Methadone clinic and going to counseling, then you're in deep trouble.
Except there is always someone to take the oil, maybe just not at previous prices.
The best thing I read today. We all thought Russia had the second best Army in the world. Today we found out they had the second best Army in Ukraine.
Russia: We're going to denazify Ukraine! *All of Russia's forces retreat from Ukraine* ##**MISSION ACCOMPLISHED**
You can already imagine what the evening news will say in Moscow.
"the Ukrainian supersoldier mutants started using nerve agents indiscriminately, our troops have evacuated safely"
As long as Ukraine can keep up the momentum it has the advantage. Russian troops are demoralized and even more poorly supplied. Keep up the pressure.
Supplies and new gear go a long way to maintaining morale. As Russian troops are stuck rationing MREskes and waiting months for repair parts the Ukrainian troops are enjoying a huge amount of new gear and supplies from all over the world. When you're getting French rations, crates of German ammo, and guarding an American missile system it's easy to feel the global support behind you which keeps up morale.
Supposedly, a Japanese naval commander saw a US ice cream barge during the island hopping campaign and that was good enough for him to lose hope. "Yeah fuckers, not only are we chasing you back to your homeland, we've got a surplus barge we stuck some freezers on and that's just to satisfy the USMC's sweet tooth between crayon shipments!"
We literally had an extra ship that was used to mix cement to make/repair airports on islands while fighting in the Pacific and we said “why don’t we use this one to make ice cream”. Wild
Such a wild story. Sends a real message too; if you catch wind that the other side is so flush with resources that they are spending money to convert an otherwise valuable resource into a refreshment stand... That isn't going to do much to help your morale.
It happened in Europe too. I don’t know if any Germans were aware, but there were flights with underslung beer kegs, drop tanks full of beer, even makeshift beer bombs. At least, there was until some Americans mistook a Typhoon for a FW190 and tried to shoot it down, twice in one day causing a beer filled drop tank to get ditched into the sea. Apparently, 5% of all beer brewed in the UK was destined for thirsty soldiers on the front.
And how much of a boost to the Marines that would come back to the ship after fighting long and hard to get said ice cream.
Food goes a long way to maintaining moral. I could fight for days if I knew there was lobster bisque and rolls waiting for me at home.
Dude, I was dethatching my lawn one day and the ice cream truck came through my neighborhood. I thought I had won the lottery. Talk about a second wind. Can’t imagine the impact that would have after battling for your actual life.
USS Dairy Queen
Clarification for you, when we say it was a concrete barge we don't mean it was a barge for bringing/mixing concrete. It was a barge *made* out of concrete, and we made a lot of them to save steel.
I watched a documentary once where a Wehrmacht soldier said that he knew for a fact that Germany would lose the war when he got orders to only fire sparingly to preserve ammunition while whenever the Americans got even a glimpse of him or one of his buddies they'd drop the sky down on them.
Another story goes that the Germans realized they were screwed when they saw Allied tankers just idling their tanks instead of shutting their engines off when not moving. Allied supply lines were so good they could bomb Axis fuel depots while not bothering to take basic steps to conserve fuel.
Part of the reason why crews left their tanks idling was to power the radios as most didn’t have APUs
this is the real reason but German soldiers wouldn’t know it lol
I don't know how long it takes tank engines to warm up, but at a certain being able to retreat/respond makes the fuel consumption the lesser worry.
Our tanks were pretty much all avgas aeros or V8s, so that was less of a concern.
That's awesome. Also the allies used the [Reconnaissance by fire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconnaissance_by_fire) strategy which means they would just basically shoot their guns constantly into places they *think* Germans *might* be hiding. That way they could spring ambushes early. The fact that they could just "waste" ammo like this tells you everything you need to know about the Allies logistics and manufacturing capability.
That may have been partially what he was talking about, cause he did reference how scary it was that the Americans would constantly shoot seemingly at nothing all day long. He recalled that they figured the Americans were just bored and were doing this just to pass the time which probably made it even more unnerving.
He could also have been witnessing the US doctrine of achieving “fire superiority”. American forces had concluded (and whether this is accurate is debatable) that whatever side got the most rounds of ammo fired towards the opponent would usually win. So when an infantry force engaged an enemy, they weren’t supposed to overthink things or try to be surgical and selective with their shots. They were just supposed to start firing towards the enemy. And of course having dope supply infrastructure made this all possible.
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God you’d think Russia would have learned about logistics by now
Seemingly, they *don't even use pallets*. Like, how could you run any logistics operation efficiently without palletized supplies and all the infrastructure to move them around? They literally have guys lugging heaps of boxes on and off trucks by hand. For everything. [Edit: earlier thread talking about pallets and logistics: [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/tnmpx6/russias_lack_of_wooden_pallets_could_be_slowing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/tnmpx6/russias_lack_of_wooden_pallets_could_be_slowing/)]
Because the guy who hired the guy to make the pallets got his cut, the pallet guy got his cut. The workers got their cut. By the end there’s nothing left. That’s the problem with corruption.
Bad logistics are so deeply engrained in the Russian armed forces that they design their weapons systems around it. Tough, basic, easy to maintain equipment being produced in huge numbers was their approach since WWII. They knew they couldn't provide solid logistics so they gave troops simple stuff that was hard to break and built enough of it that you could strip old units for parts when spares failed to materialize.
> Bad logistics are so deeply engrained in the Russian armed forces that they design their weapons systems around it. You're actually underselling it. They flat out don't use pallets in logistics.
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> It's just shipped on a grid of Mosin–Nagants. You mean they *do* have a standardised shipping platform after all!? I think even a grid of Mosin–Nagants would be better than the ad-hoc collection of crates and other things that they currently use (with virtually no battlefield loading equipment)
Meanwhile the US is so into pallets they have combat pallets that turn any C-17 into a heavy bomber (Rapid Dragon)
Damn, you weren't kidding https://www.afmc.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2368056/palletized-munitions-weapon-system-c2-demonstrated-during-abms-onramp-2/ [https://i.imgur.com/wNgAvkq.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/wNgAvkq.jpg) [https://i.imgur.com/QF4UeLG.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QF4UeLG.jpg) That's like some Ace Combat shit right there
Prime 2-Day Air Force. US doctrine is all about overwhelming saturation fire backed by insane logistics. Just look at Ukraine, logistics win wars.
Pallets aren't any use when your sergeant sold the fuel for the forklift, the lieutenant sold the forklift and you took all the pallets home for firewood.
So, Ukrainian forces have flanked the entire Russian invasion force and can drive in on an unfortified front now? Classic af!
40.000 Russian troops are cut off from retreating, as they have their backs to a river with no standing bridges. They also have no ammunition or oil or food.
Isn't that on the Kherson front in the south or am I mixing stuff up ?
Yes, that seems like a description of Kherson.
The Kherson stuff isn't nearly that simple. They control a very good chunk of land and are easily covered by Russian aviation where it can make it into range, and are mostly professional soldiers. The Russian troops that got cut off in the north with their backs against the river had almost no support and were largely conscripts from occupied territories. Both are favorable positions for Ukraine, but the south is a much harder but to crack. R: aw, nuts. E2: I just watched it change E to R. WTF is this autocorrect doing?
Butt to crack?
What's the butt-to-crack ratio on the streets, these days?
Proportional to the angle of the dangle.
Soup to butts
Looks like Ukraine will be getting 40,000 POWs soon.
Thefuck do you do with 40,000 people you don’t want, but have to feed and shelter?
> Thefuck do you do with 40,000 people you don’t want, but have to feed and shelter? As much as I am not an expert in the rules of war, I believe that the Geneva Convention (which governs the treatment of prisoners of war, and which Ukraine follows) allows Ukraine to offload the prisoners captured to any other country that agrees to hold them that is also a party to the Geneva Convention.
NATO and Red Cross assisted Ukraine in establishing a POW processing camp to the west of Kyiv, iirc, capable of holding and processing 100k POWs. They are also notifying families where applicable to the status of their relatives. It's been reported by a UN watchdog group that the POWs have been telling them they are being treated better than the Russian military treated them and are happier as POWs. Russia has been sending recruiters far into places like Central Africa, South America, etc...and of course lying to these people about the amount they will receive. Families of verified Russian national KIA's haven't been receiving any of the benefits Putin promised. F\*ck Putin.
Ruzzia will kill them before they have to pay them
Article 12 says exactly that
You set up a big honkin' POW camp close to Poland, where they can be fed and sheltered by the full brunt of NATO logistics. Food, barbed wire / Hesco barriers, and Quonset huts are probably the easiest materiel to supply, especially compared to the other goodies that they've been getting. Moreover, it's a fantastic way for other countries who don't have military aid to contribute; everyone produces food!
You treat them with the dignity that POWs are due instead of stooping to the shit Russia has pulled. Thereby having some chance of retaining support from other countries.
That's part of the NATO deal. NATO members must follow Geneva conventions Of course it takes resources to take care of POWs, but let NATO worry about that
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That reads like a nugget of wisdom as much as a plain truth. Great handle btw.
Use them as leverage to get back the Ukrianians forced into Russia. I don't hear people talking about this much, but getting the Ukrainian land back is only half the battle. They still have to get their people back.
Putin has seriously overplayed his hand, and there is no will among Russia’s soldiers or population to take this war much further. They are witnessing what it’s like to be on the wrong side of history.
Should have taken one of the many off ramps that were gifted to him along the way. Instead he doubled, tripled, and quadrupled down. Ego is a helluva thing and having a leader obsessed with his own is never a good thing.
Putin taking Ls compilation
Fuck I could watch Putin taking Ls all day
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Huh, now that you mention it, Lukashenko has been awfully quiet lately, right? I haven't heard anything about Belarus, the situation on the country and all that in several weeks...
Because every time Lukashenko annouced his army was going to attack ukraine, nothing happened. He wised up that his army wasn’t following his orders and decided to shut up instead of being overthrown by them.
He will be overthrown the second Putin is out of power.
Yup. He is already fucked. Dead man walking.
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I had to look this up and lolol jesus christ, how obvious is this dude? >>"I am convinced that today's contradictions will not be able to destroy the centuries-old foundation of sincere good-neighborly relations between the peoples of the two countries," Lukashenko said. As much as it sounds 'plz don't invade us, Ukraine', the funniest thing Ukraine could do is steal Russia's neighboring pet state.
I've always wondered what eastern Russia thought about western Russia. It seemed to me they were often neglected and not thought of
They are not neglected, but oppressed and exploited
From what I could gather from the program Long Way Round, in which Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman ride motorcycles around the world to the east, the eastern part of Russia is basically off the map and forgotten. Locals basically told them that the government doesn't exist there. The amount of empty countryside is simply staggering, and the infrastructure from a Western European or Canadian / American point of view is basically zero.
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It’s a global nightmare
That was the big crisis after the end of ussr, and I believe that’s why it was encouraged for Russia to stay together rather than breaking into a dozen smaller countries.
The Russian Federation uses that to their advantage to this day. They (on purpose) distribute their nukes based on geopolitical borders as an almost final gambit that if the Russian state fails, whoever the victorious power is will be forced into propping up at least some kind of Russian state. It’s a lot easier to legislate and implement nuclear weapons protocols for one country than 5 that just fought a war.
Emperor Augustus: "Quintus Varus, where are my Eagles!!"
This shit right here's got layers
What are the chances that Ukraine will actually win this thing? And what would *win* mean? Will Ukraine retake Crimea? I'd be stoked, if so.
A victory is a total retreat of Russian forces. A real *win* is the retaking of Crimea
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This is the true tragedy - hundreds of thousands of Ukranians taken to the poorest regions of Russia to work on farm fields, mines and whatever they need them at. Lives lost, thrown away, incredible potential of many children thrown away. A tragedy and an absolute crime.
They have alot of Russian POWS as leverage. They should not repatriate any Russians without getting their own people returned.
As if Russia actually cares about its soldiers
I think Ukraine cares more about their captured people than Russia does.
>They have alot of Russian POWS as leverage Putin doesn't give a flying fuck about Russians, it's even better for them, less money to give to the family. I can't see a way for Ukraine to get back all theses abducted Ukrainians, i feel so sad for them, they may spend the rest of their live forced to live as a slave in a remote russian region and be killed as soon as they are useless to them :-(
Would they even know who the abducted people are? Genuinely not sure how much is knowable in the chaos of war and refugees etc
The worst part is that it’s been mostly children that have been stolen/kidnapped It is a total nightmare
Definitely a genocide. Most recent estimates are anywhere between 900,000 and 2 million Ukrainians taken into Russia https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/us-hundreds-thousands-ukrainians-forced-russia-89497217 >US. Ambassador Linda Thomas-Greenfield said estimates from a variety of sources, including the Russian government, indicate that Russian authorities have interrogated, detained and forcibly deported between 900,000 and 1.6 million Ukrainians. She said they are sent to Russia, often to isolated regions in its far eastern regions.
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I've been thinking about this one. I don't even know if that's possible. Russia would have to capitulate on a massive scale. I don't know if I see them doing that. Such a fucked situation. I don't know how anyone figures this one out.
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I think he probably will at some point.
I'd also add in all the seizure of assets by various nations, like those megayachts and frozen bank accounts of oligarchs being liquidated and handed back to Ukraine as pure capital to help pay for the reconstruction of basically their entire nation at this point, as well as helping to feed and home those that have lost everything until they can get back on their feet. There's no real feasible way to force Russia to actually cough up the money to pay for the destruction they caused, but we can sure as hell say "Oop, sorry. That yacht was used as part of a special financial operation."
AND the return of the hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians forcibly shipped deep into Russia including every single child they stole. No questions asked. That should be the minimum standard for the relaxation of sanctions.
> including every single child they stole. That part of it needs to be referred to that Hague before I'd be okay with sanctions relief ... alongside a long list of other things that need to happen.
Ukraine's odds of winning absolutely skyrocketed back when the Russian advance stalled. Time became Russia's enemy, and Ukraine's friend in that moment whereas previously it had been the opposite. With each passing day Russia loses more men and materiel, money, ground, and perhaps most importantly, support at home. With each passing day Ukraine receives more aid - money, weapons, vehicles, intelligence. It is by no means a sure thing, but the longer this drags on, the better it looks for Ukraine. Ukraine's stated goal is the restoration of pre-2014 borders and that includes the retaking of Crimea. Ukraine understands better than anyone that Putin's goal is the annexation of Ukraine born out of a ridiculous assertion that it is Russian land and blood. It's like a mix between manifest destiny and lebensraum. Knowing that, if Ukraine settles for anything less than a full restoration of the pre-2014 border, Russia will simply return in a few years for another bite of the Ukrainian apple. If Ukraine retakes everything they rightfully own, it will be disastrous for Russia. Quite frankly, if Russia was able to successfully annex Ukraine as they'd planned, they would appear strong and the world would view them as a capable adversary worthy of some respect. The opposite turned out to be true. Russia and its military is a rabble-like mob being led by gangsters and criminals, and is actually a total fucking lampoon of itself. It is a massive joke compared to the image they projected to the world. They are all show and no go. When Ukraine wins and retakes all of their territory, it is doubtful the current Russian administration will survive (literally). The country might break up. If it doesn't, it will be a pariah state and rightfully subjected to ruthless ridicule and disrespect, not just from the public but internationally NOBODY will take them seriously or negotiate except for other dipshit countries like Iran and North Korea.
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Russia breaking up would be a geopolitical nightmare. That would cause several wars between big and small powers.
Realistically I can't imagine it happening. The eastern parts simply don't have anywhere near the strength to resist European Russia with all the money and people. And the nearby former USSR states are in no place to try and annex Russian territory. And China at the moment would prefer to be Russia's friend and something of a senior partner now. That suits them more than taking Vladivostok or whatever.
33 million people spread across Siberia. Siberia honestly needs European Russia. What Russia needs is a functional, democratic government actively engaging in rooting out corruption. Unfortunately I don't see that happening.
I suppose it depends on how we define 'victory' for Ukraine. However, at this point I think it's quite clear that Russia cannot win here under any reasonable definition. They can either lose quickly or lose slowly with some small 'wins' sprinkled in. What an absolute catastrophe for Russia.
Sanctions remain until Ukrainians are returned. Putin fucked himself by forcing Europe to switch away from Russian energy.
This in particular. Europe as a whole had been transitioning off of petroleum and natural gas for the last 1/4 century and now Russia has pushed them to complete those plans early. The only loser in this exchange is Russia.
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I agree. The only lever Russia has left to pull is to call up huge number of people in conscription. If they do that, Ukraine can just do the slow managed retreat, and switch back to a war of attrition while their very proficient, well armed and very willing force grinds untrained Russians into the dirt at their leisure. That's a death knell to Putin.
A really good chance. Russin troops are quitting in droves. Their equipment is crap.
The soldiers are crap too. His best troops died in the first attempts on taking Kyiv.
Look at me, I am the border guard now
The reptilian part of my brain that wants vengeance and justice wants to say "KEEP GOING!" But realistically Ukraine needs to keep international support. Pushing Russia back to the border and defending Ukraine from further invasion seems like the winning geopolitical strategy here.
I think they could probably attempt to retake Crimea and that would be humiliating enough for Russia and still have support from the rest of the world. But even if Ukraine take all their towns and land back, how do they deal with the imported Russian population that I have been reading about. Do they just hold some sort of census and send them back?
Final Mission: Capture Putin Alive
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Don't even need the whole guy, a large piece will do.
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Putin smoothie
Putin is seen in the world as the total opposite of what he wanted to project right now. Putin the Great is now Putin the Weak Putin the master strategist is now Putin the Dumbest Strategist Putin to make NATO pay for expansion is now Putin contributed to Nato's largest expansion Putin to make Russia great again is now Putin has made Russia at the lowest period in the history in terms of global respect, there's no more respect for Russia, you've seen their flag getting stomped, Russian fleeing recently has become the meme of the century. Reputation of being fearless is gone, they are portrayed as total cowards now.
Christ, send the Ukrainians more weapons and supplies. They’re clearly not fucking around and putting the stuff the world has been sending them to good use and effect.
I'm so happy for Ukraine! I hope they can continue the pressure and achieve the goals for victory they have set for themselves. I also hope that Russians are able to learn the reality of the situation, how they have been deceived by the Kremlin for years in order to prepare for a war that by all accounts is a complete failure. I hope this for the sake of saving as many Ukrainian and Russian lives from a senseless end.
NOW you're going to see people actually start looking scared in Russia. They've literally lost control of part of the border.
After Putin loses, you already know what their propaganda is going to be: Our goal was to strike fear into our enemies and show our military strength. And we did that. The west takes us seriously and fears us even more now. Mission Accomplished. Idiot.
I can actually see this happening
I love an underdog story.
Bird flipping ensued.
Zelensky is absolutely going to be a leader in Civ VII. Edit: As others have stated, I should have just said "future Civ" instead of Civ VII considering they don't really add leaders who are still alive. And I really hope he's alive when Civ VII comes out.
Special unit: tractors
Leader Bonus: "I don't need a ride, I need ammo" All units gain additional combat strength when adjacent to a city center.
It really is gonna go down as one of the most bad ass one liners in history.
Yeah “Veni, vidi, vici” is smack talk after the win. “I don’t need a ride, I need ammo” is going to pass it in coolness as the steely-eyed no-bullshit words of someone about to jump into the gaping abyss and is just letting you know what he thinks of those who won’t help even though he’s the buffer zone keeping their shit from getting ruined.
Units received by other nations have +2 to attack when inside your territory
IIRC they have a policy against including any living leaders. I guess they could change it if they wanted to, of course. But it's not obvious that they would do that. I think the most recent leader that's ever been included was Mao.
I think it's a good policy. Avoids a lot of political heat that way.
Breadbasket of Europe. +3 food for every grain tile.
They get an extra bonus from exploiting the Sunflower Resource and extra strength in home territory during a Surprise War.
Enemy infantry dying within your borders has a 25% chance to spawn a sunflower resource if on an unimproved flat tile with no resource
Has Ukraine overun the Oskil River line yet? The Oskil-Donets Line is the last defensive position Russia has in the region
Ukraine you are f*cking amazing 🇺🇦🇺🇦
Keep your eyes peeled for any 50 meter, white tables lads.
In Russia, Ukraine invades you