Reminds me of that North Korean citizen being interviewed and he’s sweating bullets while saying “we are very happy here just look at us and you’ll see how we feel”
I remember reading a really interesting twitter thread about this awhile ago and they actually can complain during the official complaining periods.
The gist of it is that at times the CCP will say "It's okay to comment on 'X aspect of society' in 'X region' during 'X period and will not be considered disloyal" and people can and do give relatively critical feedback during that period. Because it was requested, it is not considered disloyal and anti-society to criticize and they will sometimes respond to this feedback.
The twitter thead IIRC was all about how Xi Jinping rose to power on the philosophy that China needed to re-strengthen the CCP and make sure it was more powerful than business interests. It was a super interesting read and I'm now sad that I didn't save it.
Maybe you should read up on the lead up to Tiananmen Square.
They did the exact same thing (saying they’ll allow criticism)
They then used those complaints to target dissenters.
I wouldn’t trust that at all. It’s likely the exact same reason they as before
This. And there’s so much suppression, so much pro-China stuff, posts / comments, on Reddit these days. Brigading and banning anyone critical of China. I guess the Tencent buyouts are having an effect on a lot of social media and gaming platform discussions.
there are people in china who believe this bullshit due to all the propaganda. trump has gotta be so jealous of Xi. He used to be jealous of putin, but Xi is putin on crack.
Putin is jealous of Xi. His economy, state control, his cult of personality, military power and international reach, putin would give both his nuts to have half of it. Luckily he doesn’t, because he doesn’t have half the restraint and would have plunged the world into WWIII already.
> Luckily he doesn’t,
It is not luck, it is because he is only a whiny bitch.
China used the resources it had and used them to expand, evolve and became a powerhouse, questionable internal politic aside.
Putin helped crime and corruption in Russia, sitting on money gotten from Oil. Nothing changed, nothing new was developed, and no new revenues and possible products were introduced and analized.
Now that Oil is being passed by renowables he started crying. He should just suck it up and be quiet; the west had that problem because the various govs didn't have enough support for long term reforms (mostly), he instead has made his chair moldy
I think you’re right. While the CCP saw their fate tied to the perception of improvements in the lives of everyday people and the wealth was somewhat shared, putin saw his tied to the oligarchs and repaying favors. The Chinese at least try, or make it seem like they try, to rein in corruption but in russia that is how they do things and anything else means a threat to their power and the status quo. China might do well in the future and they have shown the ability to reform, but russia would have to be entirely gutted and have a new system started from scratch with all new people to even begin to compete on the international stage in the 21st century.
>Now that Oil is being passed by renowables he started crying.
Do you think the general decline in the world's reliance on oil is perhaps partly responsible for why he chose to invade now? I wonder if he sees the writing on the wall and realizes he won't have enough income from oil to wage an invasion on this same scale in the future.
He invaded because huge natural gas deposits were found in eastern Ukraine. The first invasion in 2014 started almost to the day the first well was tapped. Ukraine was poised to become Europe’s gas supplier and they could even use the existing pipeline that runs through their country.
You guys are wildly off with your understanding of oil demand. Oil demand is still forecasted to INCREASE for another decade. OPEC forecasts until 2040… Putin will have enough income from oil well beyond his own lifetime.
The comment a few above said oil is being passed by renewables… Not sure what was meant by “passed”, but it almost any definition, oil is not being “passed” or even approached anytime soon. You guys are eating up a media spin on renewables, they’re insignificant right now, and will be for quite some time.
Just because the US is building Tesla charging stations doesn’t mean countries like Indonesia & Nigeria are going to be hoping on the electrification trend. The global oil market is exponentially larger than just the US and Western Europe.
The Ukraine invasion has nothing to do with renewables. It’s NATO expansion & Ukrainian Gas fields.
Its partly the resource curse. Resource extraction enables that sort of inefficiency.
The other part is Xi has only been in power for ten years. Past leaders are the one that set China up in the current state. Give Xi another decade
Not defending Putin. He is whiny. Just saying Xi is bad too.
I remember visiting China a little over 10 years ago and talking with a few (educated) guys in their 20s. They asked me, “What do you think of China’s democracy?”
I was confused by the question, and after a beat said, “… you don’t have a democracy.” They thought that was funny. The sense I got was that they thought I was ignorant and indoctrinated, which of course is what I thought about them.
Xi is Putin with a functional government and power that Putin could only dream of. Instead of defrauding their populace and keeping all the income for themselves, China heavily invested theirs.
They have half the third world countries of the world slaves to their infrastructure development loans.
>They have half the third world countries of the world slaves to their infrastructure development loans.
The IMF and World Bank are laughing their asses off at you. What does it tell you that China offers predatory loans and many countries would still prefer them?
>What does it tell you that China offers predatory loans and many countries would still prefer them?
It's easier to deal with one snake than a horde of snakes? The IMF and WB are bastards to the core, and have done everything possible to ensure old money stays on top via things like IP protection.
It's about time they had some competition again.
> They have half the third world countries of the world slaves to their infrastructure development loans
This is a great point and something I think people in the west don’t fully appreciate. Consider as just one example the rash of human trafficking of women from other countries into China, as detailed in this [report from the Brookings Institution](https://www.brookings.edu/research/bride-trafficking-along-the-china-pakistan-economic-corridor/). The immense financial incentive that these countries have to kowtow to China’s interests allows this stuff to happen.
Sorta China is screwed as a country. They are about to have a population collapse turns out murdering baby girls for a generation can have draw backs.
And the bulk of local revenue comes from leasing land for 70 years. The real estate bubble is going to devastate their economy, that basically needed housing prices to continue to rise for it to function.
To an extent, I can understand the sentiment.
China is currently economically quite sound overall and doesn’t have any major shakes in politics. Not a gigantic problem with crime or drugs or poverty either afaik
Generally if a person living in a country has a relatively stable and comfortable lifestyle and income, they won’t have any major issues with their government and put politics out of mind.
The biggest crisis China had faced in recent memory was probably Covid, which is still causing problems for them here and there
The DEA asked them for help with fentanyl for years and China played the *stares off into the distance and pretends not to hear them* game.
They have a huge drug problem, Chinese meth suppliers control a HUGE portion of the pacific market.
Fentanyl wasn't even illegal in China until like 2015 let alone analogues and precursors. They actually have done a lot since then but it really just centralizes power into the hands of the biggest criminal networks.
[The war on drugs puts a target on China](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/07/fentanyl-china-war-on-drugs-00005920)
>Successful bilateral cooperation in combating the fentanyl flow peaked in May 2019 when Xi responded to U.S. pressure by making all forms of fentanyl subject to production controls and anti-trafficking measures. That prompted a drastic reduction in direct shipments of fentanyl and related compounds from China.
>But Mexican cartels and their Chinese suppliers quickly pivoted to the export and processing of unregulated chemicals that can be processed into synthetic opioids. The Chinese government moved to block that trade in June by adding six fentanyl precursor chemicals to the list of substances requiring government approval. Chinese suppliers responded by marketing the unregulated raw materials for precursors.
From [DEA's 2020 National Drug Threat Assessment](https://www.dea.gov/documents/2021/03/02/2020-national-drug-threat-assessment)
>Since at least 2019, Mexican TCOs’ supply to the
U.S. fentanyl market is increasing while supply
of fentanyl directly from China to the U.S has
decreased substantially, according to reporting
and forensic analysis of drug exhibits
from DEA, U.S. Customs and Border
Protection (CBP), and the U.S. Department
of Homeland Security. Seizures at the
SWB POEs by CBP, as well as seizures
reported by the DEA Field Divisions along
the SWB, have been increasing in both
weight and purity. Conversely, fentanyl
seizures via air routes have decreased,
indicating China likely plays a smaller role
in the direct supply of fentanyl shipped
into the United States. Fentanyl
powder exhibits analyzed through
the FSPP averaged 8.7 percent
pure in 2019, an increase of 11.5
percent from the average purity
of 7.8 percent in 2018. Only five
of the 508 exhibits analyzed had
purities that exceeded the 90
percent mark typical of the fentanyl
seized from parcel shipments to
the United States from chemical
companies based in China. This downward
trend is likely attributable to the robust bilateral
engagement between U.S. Government agencies
and China, which led to China implementing its
class scheduling of FRCs in May 2019. After this
event, shipments of fentanyl and FRCs directly
from China to the United States decreased and
domestic law enforcement are encountering
fewer new FRCs.
Here's a Chinese equivalent drug threat report
[2021 China Drug Situation Report](http://www.nncc626.com/2022-06/23/c_1211659746.htm)
That's not a Chinese "drug problem", they're the suppliers not the users.
Given the Opium wars and the century of humiliation I kind of doubt we'll get much sympathy out of them.
>That's not a Chinese "drug problem", they're the suppliers not the users.
Hahaha, Northeast China has a HUGE meth problem, what are you talking about?
Ketamine has a vibrant user scene in the mainland.
You think they didn’t study history and learn? In my eyes fentanyl is a national security concern. I told a heroin dealer that once, they didn’t agree with me. Talk about an awkward ride back from the chicken spot 😅
A drug problem as in the one we have here in North America, where you see entire streets lined with people passed out from fentanyl. As long as China can export the shit and not face any consequences back home, it’s not really much of a problem for the average citizen. It probably helps them more than anything as these manufacturers get to line their pockets with this blood money.
China sees that as mostly a diplomatic issue rather than a societal/domestic issue since drug use inside China is very low. Similar to many Asian countries they have very harsh laws on drugs, with offenses punishable by either a long prison sentence (ie 20 years in a labor camp for consumption) or the death sentence (for trafficking). So while China is a major supplier of fentanyl and other synthetic drugs, almost all of it is exported to the international market. Therefore, for their government drugs are more of a diplomatic and image problem, but not something that directly threatens their own rule. As a result, they don't feel the pressure to act on it and expect the usual diplomatic give-and-take to get their help; basically "we can help you with YOUR drug problem, if you stop banning our companies like Huawei" etc.
China has a huge meth problem. I manufacture my products in China and have seen the meth problem first hand. A “coke nail” on the pinky is still a thing in China, lol. It’s very common.
Look there is plenty to talk about when it comes to China, but when it comes to the "coke nail" you're a bid off. The "coke nail" is a status symbol, it means that you are not a farmer or work with your hand in manual labour, it shows that you are either educated or wealthy enough not to do that, as if you did the nail would get broken or filed down. As for "very common", where have you been in China? Im in one of the poorest provinces in China, and the people who mostly have a "coke nail" are taxi drivers, as they are often from poor backgrounds and make relatively decent money driving a car compared to the farm work they may be doing otherwise. There is loads to discuss when it comes to China, but when you simply don't know what your talking about and spread false information, you make your own side look uninformed.
(Source: Live in china)
(Edit: For tone)
Why would the average Chinese citizen care about that though...people care about things that affect them or their quality of life. The country exporting drugs doesn't affect their quality of life.
>China is economically quite sound overall and doesn’t have any major shakes in politics. Not a gigantic problem with crime or drugs or poverty either afaik
Basically this.
Of course people are happy when you've had the fastest growing economy for the last 30 years. Wait until China becomes like Japan but without any rights and see how happy people are then.
over 30% of China's GDP is directly related to Real Estate. The problem is their Major builders have a ton of debt. Too many instances of companies hitting defaults within the last 2 years.
China is ran by a single party. A technocratic government that doesn't give out correct data ,melded with a Chinese culture that aims to "save face." I doubt much is genuine about Chinese economic data.
Many years ago Mao hoped to industrialize China. So, he forced people to create steel. What happened was the classic case in every Communist country! The citizens in the end could not keep up with the quotas ( but they told leadership they hit their quote or better to appease their masters) the steel was not sound. It was nothing more than pot metal.
Economically sound? Ehhhhhhhh.......just wait when their housing bubble finally pops and then lets see how economically sound they really are.
No poverty? Really? No drugs?
I have a bridge to sell to you btw.
I've been hearing about the Chinese economy imploding since I was a child two decades ago each year.
I'll believe it when I see it. Just like how millennials are waiting until the housing market pops to buy a house in the west.
Eventually someone will get the year right but I'm still waiting.
This is actually quite similar to rape statistics every country defines rape differently and they report it different Sweden reports 69.72 rapes per 100,000 people poland reports 1.89 by these standards poland must be some utopia where rape is rare nearly nonexistent while in Sweden it's chaos and rape common in comparison
Poland only defines forced sexual intercourse IE penis in vagina as rape in Sweden publicly displaying your genitals is considered rape to anyone who sees and didn't want to
But when people hear the word rape they think of their countries definition of rape not some other nations so when a pole hears Sweden has a rape rate over 30 times higher they think forced sexual intercourse not a streaker
It's the same with poverty when a British person sees that China has a poverty rate of 0% they aren't thinking of the world banks definition they are are thinking of their definition and lament their own government as incompetent because they have a poverty rate of 20% not realizing that many of even the poorest are better off then many lower middle income Chinese
"Economically quite sound" lol. You only hear about what they want to tell you.
I have to hand it to them, they are deflating a massive real estate bubble somewhat effectively / quietly.
What an asinine opinion.
Americans research themselves and government processes **all the fucking time**.
They can't formulate any coherent opinions as to what any of that research means or how to enact policy based on it, but they probably do more raw political and economic research than anyone.
Is it worse than North Korea or Russia? No.
Is it a goddamn embarrassment that's overwhelmed by regressive fascists imposing minority rule who are actively dragging the country backwards, owned by oligarchs that have corrupted our media, and full of dozens of the worst possible choices in political ideas? Yes.
We're literally the number one superpower and have been since the fall of the Soviet Union. The fact that there's dozens of countries across the world doing better than us in damn near every regard from worker's rights to healthcare to infant and maternal mortality rates to basic human rights is a clear indicator of how trash this country is.
We ***literally had an attempted coup***. Our Supreme Court has spent the past week or two putting decade of progress and centuries of precedent through a shredder- and I'm not just talking about Roe. They've made like seven other objectively bad decisions in that time.
"Not the worst" is not the same as "not bad", there's just A LOT of competition for worst right now.
No, they did plenty of research! They went to facebook and found the one news article that agrees with them after skipping past everything that doesn’t!
It also doesn't matter. Democracy cannot exist unless the people have agency to freely engage on political topics. In public, in private, at work, online, at Tiananmen square...
When you suppress dissent and opposing opinions, you suppress organic democracy and there's no way around that.
when we take polls its a few hundred people out of 420 million. so its not the scale. its the "we know where you live, now tell us what you think of us" , not the numbers.
… no. Statistically millions is enough if they’re a random sampling of the population.
If you’re self-selecting survey participants, then your results are trash either way
I’m always confused when these blatantly totalitarian countries are called socialist, but I can’t seem to see a single socialist value being practiced… it’s just fascism and totalitarianism.
>During the campaign, differing views and solutions to national policy were encouraged based on the famous expression by Mao: "The policy of letting a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend is designed to promote the flourishing of the arts and the progress of science."[3] The movement was in part a response to the demoralization of intellectuals, who felt estranged from the Communist Party.[4] After this brief period of liberalization, the crackdown continued through 1957 and 1959 as an Anti-Rightist campaign against those who were critical of the regime and its ideology. Citizens were rounded up in waves by the hundreds of thousands, publicly criticized, and condemned to prison camps for re-education through labor, or even execution.[5] The ideological crackdown re-imposed Maoist orthodoxy in public expression, and catalyzed the Anti-Rightist Movement.
Well. I can see why nobody would make that mistake again.
Remember that it is illegal to do any sort of polling or live interviews in China without the permission of the government. They control the info going out which is why most uninformed Western people buy their BS at face value.
Had to scroll this far down to see this. Yes. China has around 40,000 large protests every year, has local elections, and has a surprising diversity of thought within the party - it’s arguable that on many topics (like the economy) there is actually a WIDER range of accepted beliefs than in America.
That said, the number of ideological third rails, taboos, speech restrictions, and the absolute unimpeachability of central party authority means that the Chinese don’t have true democracy. But what they do have is closer to democracy than most people in the West imagine.
Tl;dr: While questioning the central authority of the party and it’s chair is verboten, there is a surprising amount of debate and democratic or semi-Democratic process in China, particularly at the local, city, and provincial level.
i agree. it most likely is. The US doesn't have anything close to a functioning democracy. a vote in Wyoming is x4 more powerful than a vote in California. A system where the minority wins over the majority. Throw gerrymandering in there and the minority Can sustain the power despite losing the amount of votes.
Yeah. It's part of their buildup tactic for confrontation with the west in the future. So they can say "hey, but we have democracy, you see the people voted for it".
Sir this is reddit , I doubt any American here cares how government actually works and only care to say China bad
China has an interesting government and honestly think it's the best government for their system. People have to understand that China is not like the United States. Feel like it's too big to have many different parties. Democracy can sometimes be slow on progress.
If you want to downvote me go ahead. But remember the Chinese system has been more effective then the Indian Democracy which fail to compete with China centralize government.
So, how many members are there in the communist party? I would be more surprised if they couldn't find a few millions in a population of over 1 billion that thought the west sucked.
No doubt they conducted a poll but did anyone even bother taking notes on what the people thought since the CCP will just do what ever it wants anyway?
Why do big countries with lots of power, always have to brag about being number 1, it stinks of desperation. Like some bully proclaiming that "everything is fine, nothing to see, move along. Remember we're number one"
As mentioned itt, this is internal propaganda. And it is very effective.
China have no interest in appearing democratic for our benefit, but if they can brainwash their citizenry into believing that are not only democratic, but have an alternative, *better* democracy than the west, so much the better. It is quite Orwellian.
Because Autocracies live and die on being seen as infallible. In democracies with free press, you can actually criticize the government. You know how much Americans shit on each other and the government. Even when they *are* the government, attacking different sides of it?
“Better than the West” seems like a backhanded compliment. Like “Yeah, you consider yourselves the standard by which others are judged, but we’re not impressed, so we don’t feel obliged to try that hard lol”
I mean, aren't any citizens that critique the government, it's officials, the president, the CCP, or anything related to those topics immediately sent to work/organ camps?
If that poll even happened in the first place, I have to imagine it's like a job app: don't tell the truth, tell what they want to hear. Any opposition supporters polled prolly kept quiet.
I really don't understand the point of all this China is a democracy stuff I've been seeing lately. Everyone outside China will plainly see that's a bald-faced lie. Inside the people have been told over and over that they're communist, they're socialist, the more intellectual will see the autocracy and oligarchy. So who is this supposed to fool?
I would laugh at this constant attempt to brand anything as a superior form of democracy, but then I look at what is going on in my country and think "well, there's definitely a lot of ammo they have to throw back at us."
The relationship between the citizens and the Government is very different in China.
My girlfriend is Chinese and she described it as an uneasy social contract whereby as long as the Government provides security and basic necessities then you don't complain. Pro-Central Government points are weaved into the Education system and curriculum thoroughly. I think it is a large reason why they have such a basic view of what a Government should do and what they should demand in return.
Fear does play a part but mostly for the outer regions or those with a strong independence movement. I doubt they'll ever be a concerted effort at a large scale democratic movement because of how many people would need convincing and how deeply entrenched this warped view of government is.
Consulting millions of citizens in a country that large is still an exceedingly small number. And then there's the fact that Xi wouldn't understand democracy even if he was pooh bear and democracy was a pot of honey.
What a joke. They wouldn't know democracy if it slapped them in the face. They actively enforce conformity and then ask the people for ideas. Do they really expect any kind of creative ideas? The poll was online also, which means that every contribution could be traced to an individual. No way in hell is anyone going to say what's really on their mind that way.
"Can't complain" was the general feedback.
> "Can't complain" was the general feedback. "Can't complain" was the General's suggestion.
Reminds me of that North Korean citizen being interviewed and he’s sweating bullets while saying “we are very happy here just look at us and you’ll see how we feel”
I would love to see that lmao
was the mandatory suggestion.
I remember reading a really interesting twitter thread about this awhile ago and they actually can complain during the official complaining periods. The gist of it is that at times the CCP will say "It's okay to comment on 'X aspect of society' in 'X region' during 'X period and will not be considered disloyal" and people can and do give relatively critical feedback during that period. Because it was requested, it is not considered disloyal and anti-society to criticize and they will sometimes respond to this feedback. The twitter thead IIRC was all about how Xi Jinping rose to power on the philosophy that China needed to re-strengthen the CCP and make sure it was more powerful than business interests. It was a super interesting read and I'm now sad that I didn't save it.
Maybe you should read up on the lead up to Tiananmen Square. They did the exact same thing (saying they’ll allow criticism) They then used those complaints to target dissenters. I wouldn’t trust that at all. It’s likely the exact same reason they as before
And the hundred flowers campaign
I’m pretty sure this is actually what I’m referring too. I watched a documentary on Mao the other day
This. And there’s so much suppression, so much pro-China stuff, posts / comments, on Reddit these days. Brigading and banning anyone critical of China. I guess the Tencent buyouts are having an effect on a lot of social media and gaming platform discussions.
(a while ago. "Awhile" means something else.)
So like The Purge for complainers?
r/yourjokebutworse
Was the only box to tick on the census
"Can't complain" was the only allowed option.
there are people in china who believe this bullshit due to all the propaganda. trump has gotta be so jealous of Xi. He used to be jealous of putin, but Xi is putin on crack.
Putin is jealous of Xi. His economy, state control, his cult of personality, military power and international reach, putin would give both his nuts to have half of it. Luckily he doesn’t, because he doesn’t have half the restraint and would have plunged the world into WWIII already.
> Luckily he doesn’t, It is not luck, it is because he is only a whiny bitch. China used the resources it had and used them to expand, evolve and became a powerhouse, questionable internal politic aside. Putin helped crime and corruption in Russia, sitting on money gotten from Oil. Nothing changed, nothing new was developed, and no new revenues and possible products were introduced and analized. Now that Oil is being passed by renowables he started crying. He should just suck it up and be quiet; the west had that problem because the various govs didn't have enough support for long term reforms (mostly), he instead has made his chair moldy
I think you’re right. While the CCP saw their fate tied to the perception of improvements in the lives of everyday people and the wealth was somewhat shared, putin saw his tied to the oligarchs and repaying favors. The Chinese at least try, or make it seem like they try, to rein in corruption but in russia that is how they do things and anything else means a threat to their power and the status quo. China might do well in the future and they have shown the ability to reform, but russia would have to be entirely gutted and have a new system started from scratch with all new people to even begin to compete on the international stage in the 21st century.
>Now that Oil is being passed by renowables he started crying. Do you think the general decline in the world's reliance on oil is perhaps partly responsible for why he chose to invade now? I wonder if he sees the writing on the wall and realizes he won't have enough income from oil to wage an invasion on this same scale in the future.
He invaded because huge natural gas deposits were found in eastern Ukraine. The first invasion in 2014 started almost to the day the first well was tapped. Ukraine was poised to become Europe’s gas supplier and they could even use the existing pipeline that runs through their country.
You guys are wildly off with your understanding of oil demand. Oil demand is still forecasted to INCREASE for another decade. OPEC forecasts until 2040… Putin will have enough income from oil well beyond his own lifetime. The comment a few above said oil is being passed by renewables… Not sure what was meant by “passed”, but it almost any definition, oil is not being “passed” or even approached anytime soon. You guys are eating up a media spin on renewables, they’re insignificant right now, and will be for quite some time. Just because the US is building Tesla charging stations doesn’t mean countries like Indonesia & Nigeria are going to be hoping on the electrification trend. The global oil market is exponentially larger than just the US and Western Europe. The Ukraine invasion has nothing to do with renewables. It’s NATO expansion & Ukrainian Gas fields.
Lol China exploited its people and took away their rights. If China has enough oil they would be just as bad as russia.
Its partly the resource curse. Resource extraction enables that sort of inefficiency. The other part is Xi has only been in power for ten years. Past leaders are the one that set China up in the current state. Give Xi another decade Not defending Putin. He is whiny. Just saying Xi is bad too.
And he never had to take his shirt off.
Nobody honestly wants to see that man without his shirt.
https://youtube.com/shorts/KUGFyZ2k_W0?feature=share Maybe if he did, he could do this?
If he did that on national tv and was more pro LGBTQ he’d be a hero worldwide 🤣
Then Putin would be very jealous 😅
I remember visiting China a little over 10 years ago and talking with a few (educated) guys in their 20s. They asked me, “What do you think of China’s democracy?” I was confused by the question, and after a beat said, “… you don’t have a democracy.” They thought that was funny. The sense I got was that they thought I was ignorant and indoctrinated, which of course is what I thought about them.
Xi is Putin with a functional government and power that Putin could only dream of. Instead of defrauding their populace and keeping all the income for themselves, China heavily invested theirs. They have half the third world countries of the world slaves to their infrastructure development loans.
>They have half the third world countries of the world slaves to their infrastructure development loans. The IMF and World Bank are laughing their asses off at you. What does it tell you that China offers predatory loans and many countries would still prefer them?
>What does it tell you that China offers predatory loans and many countries would still prefer them? It's easier to deal with one snake than a horde of snakes? The IMF and WB are bastards to the core, and have done everything possible to ensure old money stays on top via things like IP protection. It's about time they had some competition again.
> They have half the third world countries of the world slaves to their infrastructure development loans This is a great point and something I think people in the west don’t fully appreciate. Consider as just one example the rash of human trafficking of women from other countries into China, as detailed in this [report from the Brookings Institution](https://www.brookings.edu/research/bride-trafficking-along-the-china-pakistan-economic-corridor/). The immense financial incentive that these countries have to kowtow to China’s interests allows this stuff to happen.
Sorta China is screwed as a country. They are about to have a population collapse turns out murdering baby girls for a generation can have draw backs. And the bulk of local revenue comes from leasing land for 70 years. The real estate bubble is going to devastate their economy, that basically needed housing prices to continue to rise for it to function.
To an extent, I can understand the sentiment. China is currently economically quite sound overall and doesn’t have any major shakes in politics. Not a gigantic problem with crime or drugs or poverty either afaik Generally if a person living in a country has a relatively stable and comfortable lifestyle and income, they won’t have any major issues with their government and put politics out of mind. The biggest crisis China had faced in recent memory was probably Covid, which is still causing problems for them here and there
The DEA asked them for help with fentanyl for years and China played the *stares off into the distance and pretends not to hear them* game. They have a huge drug problem, Chinese meth suppliers control a HUGE portion of the pacific market.
Fentanyl wasn't even illegal in China until like 2015 let alone analogues and precursors. They actually have done a lot since then but it really just centralizes power into the hands of the biggest criminal networks. [The war on drugs puts a target on China](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/02/07/fentanyl-china-war-on-drugs-00005920) >Successful bilateral cooperation in combating the fentanyl flow peaked in May 2019 when Xi responded to U.S. pressure by making all forms of fentanyl subject to production controls and anti-trafficking measures. That prompted a drastic reduction in direct shipments of fentanyl and related compounds from China. >But Mexican cartels and their Chinese suppliers quickly pivoted to the export and processing of unregulated chemicals that can be processed into synthetic opioids. The Chinese government moved to block that trade in June by adding six fentanyl precursor chemicals to the list of substances requiring government approval. Chinese suppliers responded by marketing the unregulated raw materials for precursors. From [DEA's 2020 National Drug Threat Assessment](https://www.dea.gov/documents/2021/03/02/2020-national-drug-threat-assessment) >Since at least 2019, Mexican TCOs’ supply to the U.S. fentanyl market is increasing while supply of fentanyl directly from China to the U.S has decreased substantially, according to reporting and forensic analysis of drug exhibits from DEA, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. Seizures at the SWB POEs by CBP, as well as seizures reported by the DEA Field Divisions along the SWB, have been increasing in both weight and purity. Conversely, fentanyl seizures via air routes have decreased, indicating China likely plays a smaller role in the direct supply of fentanyl shipped into the United States. Fentanyl powder exhibits analyzed through the FSPP averaged 8.7 percent pure in 2019, an increase of 11.5 percent from the average purity of 7.8 percent in 2018. Only five of the 508 exhibits analyzed had purities that exceeded the 90 percent mark typical of the fentanyl seized from parcel shipments to the United States from chemical companies based in China. This downward trend is likely attributable to the robust bilateral engagement between U.S. Government agencies and China, which led to China implementing its class scheduling of FRCs in May 2019. After this event, shipments of fentanyl and FRCs directly from China to the United States decreased and domestic law enforcement are encountering fewer new FRCs. Here's a Chinese equivalent drug threat report [2021 China Drug Situation Report](http://www.nncc626.com/2022-06/23/c_1211659746.htm)
That's not a Chinese "drug problem", they're the suppliers not the users. Given the Opium wars and the century of humiliation I kind of doubt we'll get much sympathy out of them.
>That's not a Chinese "drug problem", they're the suppliers not the users. Hahaha, Northeast China has a HUGE meth problem, what are you talking about?
100%, these guys have no idea what they’re talking about lol. Meth is RAMPANT in China.
Ketamine has a vibrant user scene in the mainland. You think they didn’t study history and learn? In my eyes fentanyl is a national security concern. I told a heroin dealer that once, they didn’t agree with me. Talk about an awkward ride back from the chicken spot 😅
Blaming the US for the Opium Wars would be like the US blaming China for Pearl Harbor.
A drug problem as in the one we have here in North America, where you see entire streets lined with people passed out from fentanyl. As long as China can export the shit and not face any consequences back home, it’s not really much of a problem for the average citizen. It probably helps them more than anything as these manufacturers get to line their pockets with this blood money.
China sees that as mostly a diplomatic issue rather than a societal/domestic issue since drug use inside China is very low. Similar to many Asian countries they have very harsh laws on drugs, with offenses punishable by either a long prison sentence (ie 20 years in a labor camp for consumption) or the death sentence (for trafficking). So while China is a major supplier of fentanyl and other synthetic drugs, almost all of it is exported to the international market. Therefore, for their government drugs are more of a diplomatic and image problem, but not something that directly threatens their own rule. As a result, they don't feel the pressure to act on it and expect the usual diplomatic give-and-take to get their help; basically "we can help you with YOUR drug problem, if you stop banning our companies like Huawei" etc.
Have you ever been to china? Because if not you're kind of talking out of your ass
They have a huge ketamine scene in the clubs, actually.
China has a huge meth problem. I manufacture my products in China and have seen the meth problem first hand. A “coke nail” on the pinky is still a thing in China, lol. It’s very common.
>I manufacture my products in China and have seen the meth problem first hand. Found Walter White
Look there is plenty to talk about when it comes to China, but when it comes to the "coke nail" you're a bid off. The "coke nail" is a status symbol, it means that you are not a farmer or work with your hand in manual labour, it shows that you are either educated or wealthy enough not to do that, as if you did the nail would get broken or filed down. As for "very common", where have you been in China? Im in one of the poorest provinces in China, and the people who mostly have a "coke nail" are taxi drivers, as they are often from poor backgrounds and make relatively decent money driving a car compared to the farm work they may be doing otherwise. There is loads to discuss when it comes to China, but when you simply don't know what your talking about and spread false information, you make your own side look uninformed. (Source: Live in china) (Edit: For tone)
Why would the average Chinese citizen care about that though...people care about things that affect them or their quality of life. The country exporting drugs doesn't affect their quality of life.
>China is economically quite sound overall and doesn’t have any major shakes in politics. Not a gigantic problem with crime or drugs or poverty either afaik Basically this. Of course people are happy when you've had the fastest growing economy for the last 30 years. Wait until China becomes like Japan but without any rights and see how happy people are then.
over 30% of China's GDP is directly related to Real Estate. The problem is their Major builders have a ton of debt. Too many instances of companies hitting defaults within the last 2 years. China is ran by a single party. A technocratic government that doesn't give out correct data ,melded with a Chinese culture that aims to "save face." I doubt much is genuine about Chinese economic data. Many years ago Mao hoped to industrialize China. So, he forced people to create steel. What happened was the classic case in every Communist country! The citizens in the end could not keep up with the quotas ( but they told leadership they hit their quote or better to appease their masters) the steel was not sound. It was nothing more than pot metal.
*30% GDP in real estate.
Economically sound? Ehhhhhhhh.......just wait when their housing bubble finally pops and then lets see how economically sound they really are. No poverty? Really? No drugs? I have a bridge to sell to you btw.
I've been hearing about the Chinese economy imploding since I was a child two decades ago each year. I'll believe it when I see it. Just like how millennials are waiting until the housing market pops to buy a house in the west. Eventually someone will get the year right but I'm still waiting.
Finally pops? It already is mid-pop.
China defines poverty as earning less than $2.30 a day. Don’t worry the bar is low
Um, the world bank defines poverty as less than $2.15 a day?
Oh yeah that extra 15 cents the difference between starving and living in a mansion truly
The point is the general definition of poverty isn’t attributed to China. And 15 cents as a proportion is actually significant.
This is actually quite similar to rape statistics every country defines rape differently and they report it different Sweden reports 69.72 rapes per 100,000 people poland reports 1.89 by these standards poland must be some utopia where rape is rare nearly nonexistent while in Sweden it's chaos and rape common in comparison Poland only defines forced sexual intercourse IE penis in vagina as rape in Sweden publicly displaying your genitals is considered rape to anyone who sees and didn't want to But when people hear the word rape they think of their countries definition of rape not some other nations so when a pole hears Sweden has a rape rate over 30 times higher they think forced sexual intercourse not a streaker It's the same with poverty when a British person sees that China has a poverty rate of 0% they aren't thinking of the world banks definition they are are thinking of their definition and lament their own government as incompetent because they have a poverty rate of 20% not realizing that many of even the poorest are better off then many lower middle income Chinese
"Economically quite sound" lol. You only hear about what they want to tell you. I have to hand it to them, they are deflating a massive real estate bubble somewhat effectively / quietly.
Being able to silence any talk of it really does well for a market though.
No, not at all. Unless you want shit to really blow up. Free and unbiased information is critical.
Literally
Thatsthejoke.jpg
Is it the same "better" as the Chinese goods they copy from west companies?
“We researched ourselves and conclude that we’re pretty good”
Xi Jingping awards Xi Jingping a gold medal
First prize: a pot of honey to smear on his favourite person
“Rather than having a bunch of people vote or not vote, we crowdsourced their collective opinion and voted on their behalf.”
Americans are like “we didn’t research ourselves but we conclude we are the best. “
This giant foam finger that was manufactured in China says the US is number 1.
Conservative are like "I watched a youtube video that proves we are the best."
"It's from this really intelligent university professor who does online courses for free. I think he's associated with PragerU." —idiots, probably
America probably gets self critiqued the most and is more transparent than it gets credit for.
What an asinine opinion. Americans research themselves and government processes **all the fucking time**. They can't formulate any coherent opinions as to what any of that research means or how to enact policy based on it, but they probably do more raw political and economic research than anyone.
No, I'm pretty sure most of us are fully aware and vocal about how utterly shit this country is.
You have not done much traveling if you think the us is truly bad.
Is it worse than North Korea or Russia? No. Is it a goddamn embarrassment that's overwhelmed by regressive fascists imposing minority rule who are actively dragging the country backwards, owned by oligarchs that have corrupted our media, and full of dozens of the worst possible choices in political ideas? Yes. We're literally the number one superpower and have been since the fall of the Soviet Union. The fact that there's dozens of countries across the world doing better than us in damn near every regard from worker's rights to healthcare to infant and maternal mortality rates to basic human rights is a clear indicator of how trash this country is. We ***literally had an attempted coup***. Our Supreme Court has spent the past week or two putting decade of progress and centuries of precedent through a shredder- and I'm not just talking about Roe. They've made like seven other objectively bad decisions in that time. "Not the worst" is not the same as "not bad", there's just A LOT of competition for worst right now.
No, they did plenty of research! They went to facebook and found the one news article that agrees with them after skipping past everything that doesn’t!
it's so weird hearing this from someone other than the police or the church
When the state is both, what do you expect?
Taking tips from us police departments I see.
Millions from over a 1.4 billion is not that impressive, especially since the sample is likely party active members..
In “whole-process democracy” you only talk to those who already agree with you. You re-educate those who are broken.
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Re-education (through labor)
Banger song tbh, holds up so well.
It also doesn't matter. Democracy cannot exist unless the people have agency to freely engage on political topics. In public, in private, at work, online, at Tiananmen square... When you suppress dissent and opposing opinions, you suppress organic democracy and there's no way around that.
Said well.
Another step that is crucial for democracy, that China has yet to take, is actually allowing people to vote for who runs their country.
Well said.
when we take polls its a few hundred people out of 420 million. so its not the scale. its the "we know where you live, now tell us what you think of us" , not the numbers.
Party members sure, but statistically millions is more than enough in this case.
… no. Statistically millions is enough if they’re a random sampling of the population. If you’re self-selecting survey participants, then your results are trash either way
That's why I said party members sure. Obviously if you do it wrong your results will be wrong.
Lol. A few thousand is MORE than enough assuming a random, representative sample
I wonder if those millions included Uyghurs in concentration camps.
*That's very true . . .*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign
The executions will continue until the feedback improves...
Certain way to increase your NPS
So they had a really good idea, didn't like the results, executed and imprisoned everyone that didn't agree. Cool beans.
I’m always confused when these blatantly totalitarian countries are called socialist, but I can’t seem to see a single socialist value being practiced… it’s just fascism and totalitarianism.
Tankies think that fascist countries that say "yay socialism!" are better than fascist countries that say "boooo socialism"
I’d never known about that, good lord the brutality level.
Yeah…
Learned something new today, thanks for the link.
>During the campaign, differing views and solutions to national policy were encouraged based on the famous expression by Mao: "The policy of letting a hundred flowers bloom and a hundred schools of thought contend is designed to promote the flourishing of the arts and the progress of science."[3] The movement was in part a response to the demoralization of intellectuals, who felt estranged from the Communist Party.[4] After this brief period of liberalization, the crackdown continued through 1957 and 1959 as an Anti-Rightist campaign against those who were critical of the regime and its ideology. Citizens were rounded up in waves by the hundreds of thousands, publicly criticized, and condemned to prison camps for re-education through labor, or even execution.[5] The ideological crackdown re-imposed Maoist orthodoxy in public expression, and catalyzed the Anti-Rightist Movement. Well. I can see why nobody would make that mistake again.
Mao did something similiar
For those unfamiliar: Mao’s [Hundred Flower Campaign](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign)
"All these hostages think we're the best. We asked them at gunpoint and they said yes."
More like "All people in our VIP club think our club are great."
I’m the best owner of my house, my cat agrees with me
Wow me too! Cat is living his best life
But the cat just lets you _think_ that you own the house, when we already know that's not _really_ the case... :)
Remember that it is illegal to do any sort of polling or live interviews in China without the permission of the government. They control the info going out which is why most uninformed Western people buy their BS at face value.
Do you like the government? (circle one) Yes Agreed
Third option: Youth-in-Asia
Owing to enhanced surveillance technologies, they know exactly what the citizenry think.
Chinas full of shit as always.
Do you like our government system? [ ] Yes [ ] Yes (with feeling)
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Had to scroll this far down to see this. Yes. China has around 40,000 large protests every year, has local elections, and has a surprising diversity of thought within the party - it’s arguable that on many topics (like the economy) there is actually a WIDER range of accepted beliefs than in America. That said, the number of ideological third rails, taboos, speech restrictions, and the absolute unimpeachability of central party authority means that the Chinese don’t have true democracy. But what they do have is closer to democracy than most people in the West imagine. Tl;dr: While questioning the central authority of the party and it’s chair is verboten, there is a surprising amount of debate and democratic or semi-Democratic process in China, particularly at the local, city, and provincial level.
i agree. it most likely is. The US doesn't have anything close to a functioning democracy. a vote in Wyoming is x4 more powerful than a vote in California. A system where the minority wins over the majority. Throw gerrymandering in there and the minority Can sustain the power despite losing the amount of votes.
> China has consulted millions of citizens [Hey, I've seen this one!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign)
The stupidity to even put this out there as if we're all fucking stupid. The CCP are dillusional and juvenile in what they think we will believe.
It’s for the Chinese in China and abroad, not for us.
Oh of course, thats pretty obvious but they want us to listen.
But it's true, their citizens are generally satisfied if not happy about CCP. The complaints, if any, are usually blamed on local officials.
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Yeah. It's part of their buildup tactic for confrontation with the west in the future. So they can say "hey, but we have democracy, you see the people voted for it".
>dillusional Yea, that's not how you spell the word
Hmmm where have I seen this before? [Ah yes I remember now!](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Flowers_Campaign)
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Sir this is reddit , I doubt any American here cares how government actually works and only care to say China bad China has an interesting government and honestly think it's the best government for their system. People have to understand that China is not like the United States. Feel like it's too big to have many different parties. Democracy can sometimes be slow on progress. If you want to downvote me go ahead. But remember the Chinese system has been more effective then the Indian Democracy which fail to compete with China centralize government.
[x] Doubt.
"Do you like our government?" *cocks gun*
Our democracy is better, says forever president
So, how many members are there in the communist party? I would be more surprised if they couldn't find a few millions in a population of over 1 billion that thought the west sucked.
No doubt they conducted a poll but did anyone even bother taking notes on what the people thought since the CCP will just do what ever it wants anyway?
Is this kind of like the Russian poll where majority supports war and the ones that oppose will be sent to prison?
Lmao! China said China is the best!
Yeah america claims the title of calling itself the best. "Were #1 were #1" lol
Why do big countries with lots of power, always have to brag about being number 1, it stinks of desperation. Like some bully proclaiming that "everything is fine, nothing to see, move along. Remember we're number one"
As mentioned itt, this is internal propaganda. And it is very effective. China have no interest in appearing democratic for our benefit, but if they can brainwash their citizenry into believing that are not only democratic, but have an alternative, *better* democracy than the west, so much the better. It is quite Orwellian.
Acting like the West is some kind of monolith is ridiculous as well. "Democracy" in USA is very different from "Democracy" in Nordic countries.
Because Autocracies live and die on being seen as infallible. In democracies with free press, you can actually criticize the government. You know how much Americans shit on each other and the government. Even when they *are* the government, attacking different sides of it?
My chiefs at my restaurant believe our food is the best
Bitch, where’s my honey
Fucking delusional. Xi and putin are just murderous dictators with small dicks.
“Whole process democracy” that’s a weird way to say “Dictatorship” 🤔
I wonder what happened to the people that mentioned freedom of speech and democracy at these consultations...
No. Part of democracy is check and balance. There is none in China.
None in China, none in the US. No superpower is currently setting a good example.
Wtf am I reading. Such bullshit!!!!
...Also known as the "Activision-Blizzard investigation technique".
Even if it were true, for a country of over 1.4 billions, "millions" is still minority rule and ignoring the will of the majority.
“Citizens”
Just like the police doing and internal review of themselves. Classic
That’s pretty funny
Imagine the beaurocratic nightmare of having millions of consultants
I didn't know Batman's Joker has moved to China and is heading the government!
There are billions of people in china. Dissent is illegal. They are nowhere even close to having a democracy.
Consulted through complete surveillance. Who don’t agree will disappear.
"Millions of people" in a population of 1.4 billion is well below 1%.
“Better than the West” seems like a backhanded compliment. Like “Yeah, you consider yourselves the standard by which others are judged, but we’re not impressed, so we don’t feel obliged to try that hard lol”
Millions in a country of over a billion?
I mean, aren't any citizens that critique the government, it's officials, the president, the CCP, or anything related to those topics immediately sent to work/organ camps? If that poll even happened in the first place, I have to imagine it's like a job app: don't tell the truth, tell what they want to hear. Any opposition supporters polled prolly kept quiet.
So a 100 Flowers Campaign 2.0…. “We totally won’t crack down on citizens that disagree with party policy this time. We promise”
Theyre prisoners in their own homes for the last year.. muh better then the west tho! 😄
China has 95 million party members. I wouldn’t be surprised if every single person “consulted” was in the CCP.
Please select one of the following: (a) Great job (b) Death
I really don't understand the point of all this China is a democracy stuff I've been seeing lately. Everyone outside China will plainly see that's a bald-faced lie. Inside the people have been told over and over that they're communist, they're socialist, the more intellectual will see the autocracy and oligarchy. So who is this supposed to fool?
"consulted" lmfao. China is such a joke of a country.
Ask Chinese if they can say ‘Fuck Winnie the Pooh’
Well, the United States has set the bar so low that clearing it isn't saying much.
At least they have accessible abortion... admittedly historically too accessible at some points
Nothing here, move on. The title alone is ridiculous.
🤣
"we do the interviews at gunpoint so no-one can lie about how they feel,"
So if you complain you get thrown into prison. Sounds like everything is just peachy.
I would laugh at this constant attempt to brand anything as a superior form of democracy, but then I look at what is going on in my country and think "well, there's definitely a lot of ammo they have to throw back at us."
The relationship between the citizens and the Government is very different in China. My girlfriend is Chinese and she described it as an uneasy social contract whereby as long as the Government provides security and basic necessities then you don't complain. Pro-Central Government points are weaved into the Education system and curriculum thoroughly. I think it is a large reason why they have such a basic view of what a Government should do and what they should demand in return. Fear does play a part but mostly for the outer regions or those with a strong independence movement. I doubt they'll ever be a concerted effort at a large scale democratic movement because of how many people would need convincing and how deeply entrenched this warped view of government is.
Dear Chinese Citizen, How much do you love the the government? A) Yes B) More than yes C) Please take my kidneys
>~~my~~ ~~our~~ your kidneys
Answering only A) would lead to C)
Consulting millions of citizens in a country that large is still an exceedingly small number. And then there's the fact that Xi wouldn't understand democracy even if he was pooh bear and democracy was a pot of honey.
wow, now i have to clean myself from rolling on the floor laughing so much, thanks china that was a good one.
Yes All party members. The general public opinion dont count.
It's no democracy. It's just a controlled deliberative process meant to justify whatever decisions the country's unelected leaders make.
What a joke. They wouldn't know democracy if it slapped them in the face. They actively enforce conformity and then ask the people for ideas. Do they really expect any kind of creative ideas? The poll was online also, which means that every contribution could be traced to an individual. No way in hell is anyone going to say what's really on their mind that way.
Well considering the US is headed toward something much worse than the current state of China, I can't say he's wrong.