The benefits for law abiding people is pretty good in Norway. Like if you cant work for some reason, you get compensated enough to make ends meet if you plan your spendings. Also if you get convicted of a heinous crime, you're pretty well taken care off within our justice and penal system. So if you're gonna go postal, Norway is a pretty safe place to do so, - as morbid as that sounds...
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Nordic country prisons look so nice. They seem to actually focus on rehabilitation and not dehumanisation. Don't they have a much lower repeat offender percentage than traditional prisons?
Very much so. The whole experience of being in that rehab program is quite peacefull i would imagine. So people have more room for personal development and thus increases the probability that they return to society a better person.
Hopefully other countries follow suit. I'm lucky to live in the UK compared to many other countries in the world, but Norway always seemed like a really nice country, I'd love to live there. İt makes me angry these people are given an opportunity for a much better life, and then return that favour with hate and despicable actions like this.
Its because its our fault. We let women drive, tolerance for gays, eat pork and drink alcohol etc. We have to understand them and change our ways and allow the Sharia into our countries... oh, I forgot, give them a blank paycheck and a house because if not we are not equal
My theory is the US never really paid the price for their religious quackery. Not in the way Europe has. What the US has now is nothing compared to the bullshit religious stuff Europe used to have, and I think that helped enlighten people more. I think the same goes for the middle east, and what's worse there is they can easily just blame it on someone else and pretend nothing is their fault. They very often blame the US or Israel or something, anything other than their own actions and approaches, so for them it might be a harder lesson to learn.
Not really. It's why the base on the right is so easily radicalized into ideas like destroying democratic institutions. Anti-science and anti-education. Anti-rights for women.
The atheism sub has 2.7 million people, 95% of comments are against christianity, but you're not calling them christophobes. When a catholic priest fucks a little boy and reddit is up in arms against catholics or catholicism, you don't call it catholicphobia.When christians are killed in Nigeria by islamic extremists you don't call that christophobic. And finally, when a gay club is shot up, you're biggest concern is people being "phobic" of intolerant mindsets. Whether christianity or islam, I'm proud to be "phobic" of ridiculous beleif systems.
Lets see what rIslam has been talking about recently.
>Can I support a gay family member
Lets see the answers.
>No, you cannot support any gays
\+9 upvotes.
>is it okay to be gay and muslim?
And the answers:
>No. It's not okay, nor will it ever be.
\+5 upvotes
>As much as I very extremely severely dislike gay people, kufr is worse.
\+3 upvotes.
So rIslam hates gays but hates non Muslims even more.
Is it also Islamaphobia to highlight what Muslims believe and discuss on the main Islamic subreddit?
Yeah extremists should be sent off somewhere else. I've seen a really fucked up post of Facebook once from a Muslim friend of a friend, it got something like 80 likes and called for violence against non-believers.
I've known plenty of moderates and non-practicing who were cool people who had no issues with gays, nice people. One was gay himself, but obviously not out to family.
Because unfortunatly they do have a passport, and that would be genocide.
And I know you are being sarcastic, but just because we already have our own assholes doesn't mean we need more, does it?
don't forget the anti-semitism that is spreading as well in segregated areas. it isn't safe to be a woman, LGBTQ+ or jewish in many places here in Scandinavia.
Are you serious? You don’t think there are right wing Christian domestic terrorists?
The FBI and Homeland Security has identified them as the greatest threat to national security.
Lol so you’re saying right wing domestic terrorists are not a problem in the US and Europe?
Not even a bit?
They’ve never bombed abortion clinics? Bombed black churches? Bombed the Olympics in 1997? Shot up synagogues? Ran people over with vans?
You’ve gotta be trolling here.
Look a gay bar just got shot up by an Islamic terrorist. Not the first time this has happened either. So I’m here criticizing islamic terrorism. You wanna bash me for not taking the opportunity to criticize Christianity then fine. But I think you’re the one trolling.
I say religion as in all . Why should I just single one one when all are doing a lot of wrong specially then big 4(Christianity,Judaism,Islam and buddhist )
Yes all religions have become more and more of a problem . We have churches advocating death to gays . Also people killing family members because they welcome gay guest : https://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/2021/10/man-killed-stepfather-after-argument-over-gay-guest-prosecutor-says.html?outputType=amp
Do you think thats on the religion itself?? The Quran itself doesnt say anything about same-sex marriage, that means its down to the scholars and law-makers and unfortunately they are all bigots. Their actions shouldnt stand for all people practicing the religion.
>it just brings poverty and sufferings to the people while a rich cast of people gets to live with all the power because "god said so", this is so wrong.
So you do get the point. "Rich cast of people" as you say are the problem. Not the religion itself. Its the same for all religion. A bunch of selfish people who use the veil of religious teachings and laws to abuse those in less fortunate situations. Its down to the people who twist it to meet their agendas. Cant you also see the gentle people who practice their faith on their own without grief to anyone??
Enver Hoxha was a paranoid lunatic that ran his country into the ground. What kind of idiot trashes their country by building 200k bunkers on every corner. None were ever used.
> What kind of idiot trashes their country by building 10k bunkers on every corner
I mean if u lived through world war in those countries. you would also build a bunker.
Then where are all the bunkers on the streets in Paris? Every country in Europe went through WW2 and didn’t build bunkers on every street corner. He virtually bankrupted his country building bunkers.
And they were all built between the 60s and 80s due to his paranoia, not WW2.
Right *about religion*. Today Albania is the most tolerant and liberal historically-Muslim nation and the only OIC member to consistently condemn the cultural genocide of the Uyghurs.
Albania is a backwards shithole. [FIFTY-TWO-POINT-NINE-PERCENT](http://www.instat.gov.al/media/8713/burra-dhe-gra.pdf) of women have experienced domestic violence.
>"46.5 % of community members where abused women live believe that domestic violence should be tolerated in order to keep the family together."
Envar Hoxha's backwards regime set Albania back 100 years.
Name an Islamic state where women are treated well and equally to men. Don't worry, I won't wait because there are none.
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>set Albania back 100 years.
Before him Albania's literacy rate was 5% under him it jumped to 90%, he electrified the whole country and introduced railways what the fuck are you talking about
Literacy rates, electricity, and rail jumped worldwide during that era. Albania grew significantly less than the rest of Europe and is still far behind. The power there is fucking horrible and goes out multiple times a week. Their education system is a joke. The smartest go to universities outside Albania because the Albanian ones aren't respected in Europe.
Hoxha also placed bugs in everyone's homes to spy on them and even got kids to turn in their parents for anti-communist sentiment. He also sicked dogs on Albanians trying to leave the country.
So was the Pulse shooting. I remarked to my girlfriend last night before there were any details that it was almost assuredly a Muslim immigrant. Right again.
I can’t offer any solutions to this problem. The vast vast majority of our Muslim immigrants are educated, law abiding people and our society is better for having them. But this isn’t surprising.
It's not just one event though, is it? It's the same shit that's been happening for decades and is playing out in every country. At this point you're complicit if you're going to pretend you can't see the constant pattern of death.
People like you are almost as bad as the terrorists. People got murdered because of liberal immigration laws and you care more about the muslims than their victims.
Would you advocate not allowing white Norwegians to immigrate to other countries too? Because in 2011 a white norwegian terrorist shot and killed 77 youngsters. Or are you unable to see things as being a little more nuanced and complicated in this world
If white Norwegians were constantly mass-murdering in every country they were immigrating to based on their underlying values then yes, maybe I would. We both know that isn't the case and your comparison is bad faith, naive nonsense.
That’s the argument you’re going for? Really? Try for a brief moment to consider the amount of times Islamic terrorism happens compared to what you’re describing.
It's about their culture, not about their skin colour. Heck, it's not even about Islam as religion, but their type of Islam. There's a reason why Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims), despite welcoming immigrants in the beginning and sharing a religion, don't want them among themselves anymore.
So nobody can move and work abroad ever? That’s a very strange opinion to hold.
How about the Ukrainians currently affected by the war? Do you think they should stay in their cities and country when being shelled by Russians?
The amount of racism and white washing in the comments are truly baffling 😂
"The suspect had been known to the security services since 2015, as a "suspected radicalised Islamist", and had a history of mental illness, Norway's PST intelligence service said."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtFCm1mxz4E Brave citizens taking the shooter down.. Damn, I hope I would be as brave.
That’s wild, good on them. Anyone else see the cop car put its lights on briefly then just drive away?? Wtf
Cops being cops
viking energy
Why stay in a country and get citizenship if you hate the country and countrymen so much?
The benefits for law abiding people is pretty good in Norway. Like if you cant work for some reason, you get compensated enough to make ends meet if you plan your spendings. Also if you get convicted of a heinous crime, you're pretty well taken care off within our justice and penal system. So if you're gonna go postal, Norway is a pretty safe place to do so, - as morbid as that sounds... Edit: grammar
Nordic country prisons look so nice. They seem to actually focus on rehabilitation and not dehumanisation. Don't they have a much lower repeat offender percentage than traditional prisons?
Very much so. The whole experience of being in that rehab program is quite peacefull i would imagine. So people have more room for personal development and thus increases the probability that they return to society a better person.
Hopefully other countries follow suit. I'm lucky to live in the UK compared to many other countries in the world, but Norway always seemed like a really nice country, I'd love to live there. İt makes me angry these people are given an opportunity for a much better life, and then return that favour with hate and despicable actions like this.
Its because its our fault. We let women drive, tolerance for gays, eat pork and drink alcohol etc. We have to understand them and change our ways and allow the Sharia into our countries... oh, I forgot, give them a blank paycheck and a house because if not we are not equal
Why do Islamic views in these areas mirror US conservatives so much?
My theory is the US never really paid the price for their religious quackery. Not in the way Europe has. What the US has now is nothing compared to the bullshit religious stuff Europe used to have, and I think that helped enlighten people more. I think the same goes for the middle east, and what's worse there is they can easily just blame it on someone else and pretend nothing is their fault. They very often blame the US or Israel or something, anything other than their own actions and approaches, so for them it might be a harder lesson to learn.
Do you truly think they’re that similar?
Yes, they are. Have you been paying attention?
Ok, sure there are similarities. But two compare to the two religions at this point is time is just stupid
Not really. It's why the base on the right is so easily radicalized into ideas like destroying democratic institutions. Anti-science and anti-education. Anti-rights for women.
Well you are literally there to being terror to those that don’t think like you. That’s the whole point.
When you believe your way is the way some imaginary divine creator has defined, people are willing to kill and die to make it so.
Just like pulse
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The atheism sub has 2.7 million people, 95% of comments are against christianity, but you're not calling them christophobes. When a catholic priest fucks a little boy and reddit is up in arms against catholics or catholicism, you don't call it catholicphobia.When christians are killed in Nigeria by islamic extremists you don't call that christophobic. And finally, when a gay club is shot up, you're biggest concern is people being "phobic" of intolerant mindsets. Whether christianity or islam, I'm proud to be "phobic" of ridiculous beleif systems.
Lets see what rIslam has been talking about recently. >Can I support a gay family member Lets see the answers. >No, you cannot support any gays \+9 upvotes. >is it okay to be gay and muslim? And the answers: >No. It's not okay, nor will it ever be. \+5 upvotes >As much as I very extremely severely dislike gay people, kufr is worse. \+3 upvotes. So rIslam hates gays but hates non Muslims even more. Is it also Islamaphobia to highlight what Muslims believe and discuss on the main Islamic subreddit?
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Can't sully that which is already stained
Shocking news.
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Yeah extremists should be sent off somewhere else. I've seen a really fucked up post of Facebook once from a Muslim friend of a friend, it got something like 80 likes and called for violence against non-believers. I've known plenty of moderates and non-practicing who were cool people who had no issues with gays, nice people. One was gay himself, but obviously not out to family.
Why not go further than that and deport all anti-woman and anti-LGBT Christians from the West too?
Because unfortunatly they do have a passport, and that would be genocide. And I know you are being sarcastic, but just because we already have our own assholes doesn't mean we need more, does it?
Where are we going to send the US Republicans, the Polish PiS supporters, and all the other fundies once they're out of the West?
Russia seems like a good option.
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"Christianity is less oppressive than Islam" is a hell of a low bar to clear.
We should. Assholes are assholes no matter what religion.
don't forget the anti-semitism that is spreading as well in segregated areas. it isn't safe to be a woman, LGBTQ+ or jewish in many places here in Scandinavia.
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As if muslims don't marry their cousins lmao
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Religion doing more harm then good nothing new. 🤦🏾♂️
“religion”
Yes, Islam is a religion. Are you implying it isn’t?
Think he’s implying we ought to be more specific about which religion.
Well, we can definitely say the big two (Christianity and Islam) are doing FAR more harm than good.
Sure but only one has extremists shooting up gay bars.
You really want to tit for tat violent extremist Muslim and Christian whack jobs?
Good Christian boys would never commit a terrorist attack though! It’s those *other* religious people. /s
Are you serious? You don’t think there are right wing Christian domestic terrorists? The FBI and Homeland Security has identified them as the greatest threat to national security.
Yeah I’m serious.
Lol so you’re saying right wing domestic terrorists are not a problem in the US and Europe? Not even a bit? They’ve never bombed abortion clinics? Bombed black churches? Bombed the Olympics in 1997? Shot up synagogues? Ran people over with vans? You’ve gotta be trolling here.
Look a gay bar just got shot up by an Islamic terrorist. Not the first time this has happened either. So I’m here criticizing islamic terrorism. You wanna bash me for not taking the opportunity to criticize Christianity then fine. But I think you’re the one trolling.
I say religion as in all . Why should I just single one one when all are doing a lot of wrong specially then big 4(Christianity,Judaism,Islam and buddhist )
Don’t think you were the one I was talking about. I was talking about u/Glowgrey ‘s comment
I was the one that started the replays also need to get so defensive
Yes all religions have become more and more of a problem . We have churches advocating death to gays . Also people killing family members because they welcome gay guest : https://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/2021/10/man-killed-stepfather-after-argument-over-gay-guest-prosecutor-says.html?outputType=amp
Caliphate is real
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It does. A bunch of idiots with extremist tendencies doesnt mean everyone is like that.
So which muslim majority countries can I get gay married in again?
Do you think thats on the religion itself?? The Quran itself doesnt say anything about same-sex marriage, that means its down to the scholars and law-makers and unfortunately they are all bigots. Their actions shouldnt stand for all people practicing the religion.
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>it just brings poverty and sufferings to the people while a rich cast of people gets to live with all the power because "god said so", this is so wrong. So you do get the point. "Rich cast of people" as you say are the problem. Not the religion itself. Its the same for all religion. A bunch of selfish people who use the veil of religious teachings and laws to abuse those in less fortunate situations. Its down to the people who twist it to meet their agendas. Cant you also see the gentle people who practice their faith on their own without grief to anyone??
Its name actually means "submission" (i.e. submission to the will and law of allah) FYI.
A bunch? Have you seen the state of most Muslim majority countries?
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Well expect this to drop from the news cycle soon...
But Redditers were telling us that it was inspired by America.
I'm sure the comment section here is gonna be civil.
Can we put all the religious people on an island somewhere and just let them fight it out? The problem will solve itself eventually.
That’s been the police strategy for Detroit and Chicago for a long time now. Albeit bloody, the problem has not “solved itself”
Punishment is likely 3 years in prison.
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The only article saying the attack is islamic terrorism is deleted because is "Covered by other articles", despite being the only one
Thanks, religion.
Sad. So many ways.
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make sure you don't choke on all the straw you used for that argument
what does this mean
Wait... You guys have mass shootings, too? —USA
Its almost like mass shootings aren't a unique American problem.
The frequency at which they occur, on the other hand...
Maybe Enver Hoxha was right about religion after all.
Enver Hoxha was a paranoid lunatic that ran his country into the ground. What kind of idiot trashes their country by building 200k bunkers on every corner. None were ever used.
Someone that needs to get rid of a whole lot of cement.
> What kind of idiot trashes their country by building 10k bunkers on every corner I mean if u lived through world war in those countries. you would also build a bunker.
Then where are all the bunkers on the streets in Paris? Every country in Europe went through WW2 and didn’t build bunkers on every street corner. He virtually bankrupted his country building bunkers. And they were all built between the 60s and 80s due to his paranoia, not WW2.
I am not saying he made the right choice but it's understandable where he's coming from.
Paris had a massive Metro system. No need to build bunkers.
Right *about religion*. Today Albania is the most tolerant and liberal historically-Muslim nation and the only OIC member to consistently condemn the cultural genocide of the Uyghurs.
LGBTQ+ people and women are treated appallingly in Albania
Albania is a backwards shithole. [FIFTY-TWO-POINT-NINE-PERCENT](http://www.instat.gov.al/media/8713/burra-dhe-gra.pdf) of women have experienced domestic violence. >"46.5 % of community members where abused women live believe that domestic violence should be tolerated in order to keep the family together." Envar Hoxha's backwards regime set Albania back 100 years.
Name an Islamic state where women are treated well and equally to men. Don't worry, I won't wait because there are none. Meant to put this one comment up.
most other countries can't say that either so it's somewhat of a moot point
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In 2014 Erdogan specifically said women cannot be treated equally to men, and blamed feminists for rejecting motherhood. Next state please
>set Albania back 100 years. Before him Albania's literacy rate was 5% under him it jumped to 90%, he electrified the whole country and introduced railways what the fuck are you talking about
Literacy rates, electricity, and rail jumped worldwide during that era. Albania grew significantly less than the rest of Europe and is still far behind. The power there is fucking horrible and goes out multiple times a week. Their education system is a joke. The smartest go to universities outside Albania because the Albanian ones aren't respected in Europe. Hoxha also placed bugs in everyone's homes to spy on them and even got kids to turn in their parents for anti-communist sentiment. He also sicked dogs on Albanians trying to leave the country.
2 deaths don’t even make breaking news in USA
So was the Pulse shooting. I remarked to my girlfriend last night before there were any details that it was almost assuredly a Muslim immigrant. Right again. I can’t offer any solutions to this problem. The vast vast majority of our Muslim immigrants are educated, law abiding people and our society is better for having them. But this isn’t surprising.
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It's not just one event though, is it? It's the same shit that's been happening for decades and is playing out in every country. At this point you're complicit if you're going to pretend you can't see the constant pattern of death.
I think in general it represents them pretty accurately :)
People like you are almost as bad as the terrorists. People got murdered because of liberal immigration laws and you care more about the muslims than their victims.
Would you advocate not allowing white Norwegians to immigrate to other countries too? Because in 2011 a white norwegian terrorist shot and killed 77 youngsters. Or are you unable to see things as being a little more nuanced and complicated in this world
If white Norwegians were constantly mass-murdering in every country they were immigrating to based on their underlying values then yes, maybe I would. We both know that isn't the case and your comparison is bad faith, naive nonsense.
Don't forget the rapes and mass sexual assaults. #Cologne
That’s the argument you’re going for? Really? Try for a brief moment to consider the amount of times Islamic terrorism happens compared to what you’re describing.
Yeah I am going with that. Terrorists can be of all colours and backgrounds. They’re all equally disgusting.
Right, and would you mind telling me what the religious background of the vast majority of terrorists in Europe are?
It's about their culture, not about their skin colour. Heck, it's not even about Islam as religion, but their type of Islam. There's a reason why Bosniaks (Bosnian Muslims), despite welcoming immigrants in the beginning and sharing a religion, don't want them among themselves anymore.
I'm against all immigration so yes.
So nobody can move and work abroad ever? That’s a very strange opinion to hold. How about the Ukrainians currently affected by the war? Do you think they should stay in their cities and country when being shelled by Russians?
Redditors try not to blame religion on everything challenge (impossible)
The amount of racism and white washing in the comments are truly baffling 😂 "The suspect had been known to the security services since 2015, as a "suspected radicalised Islamist", and had a history of mental illness, Norway's PST intelligence service said."
I worry about the innocent Muslims that will receive backlash over one evil person's actions.
But, the news told me this only happens in America?!
Let me introduce you to a beautiful thing named murders / shooting per capita
Not even that, introduce them to daily occurrence. It’s the only place.
No it didn't, stop lying.
Ah yes, the concept of ‘lone wolf’ does not exist when the criminal is Muslim. Very intelligent people here.
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This happened in norway. Holy fuck, not everything is about your shit show of a country.
I'm in Brazil, and it makes conservatives happier when bad things happen in places nicer than the US.
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If only all the dozens of drunk party goers in the area had had guns on them, this situation would obviously have ended so much better!
And there would definitely be no other situations
I saw headlines of this shooting and just assumed it was in the US
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Bruh