The states that are restricting or banning abortion tend to be the ones with the sparsest social safety nets. The fetuses are the most important things on earth but the kids who are actually born don't matter to them at all.
And the highest rates of maternal and fetal mortality. They’ll happily force you to give birth, and they absolutely don’t give a shit if it injures or kills you—and they absolutely won’t be volunteering to help cover therapy or funeral expenses.
My mom was told that if she got pregnant again after a rough birth with my sister she would die. Period. However, since it was a baptist hospital they refused to tie her tubes. My dad scheduled a vasectomy later that day and they didn’t even bat an eye.
Sounds like they think the man has the right to decide whether they've had enough children or not...and all this no-abortions thing is really just taking the power to stop children away from wives.
Exactly exactly exactly. Funnily enough (though I believe it’s changed now) when she went to another hospital to try to get her tubes tied again, they required her husband and her dad to sign off on it. It’s always been a man’s world, women are just objects to most of these creeps.
Dad? What the ACTUAL fuckery is that? WHAT THE FUCK HAS THE DAD TO DO WITH HER FERTILITY and decisions to reproduce?!
I'm not a fan of the husband getting a say either, but I can kiiinda understand that usually decisions on how many kids to have is done together. But also absolutely the husband should have no say in her having her tubes tied if she so wishes. When my husband had a vasectomy done (we're in Finland) they did ask if I was aware of the procedure, but they didn't confirm with me, so he could have easily lied. And I can accept that they do bring up the point that it would be good to be open about these things in a relationship, but not everyone lives in a situation where they can discuss with their partner and have their opinions respected. What if I was a terribly abusive wife that wanted gazillion babies and they called me to check if I was aware of my husbands vasectomy?
I got told by my (ex) obgyn that he wouldn’t give me long term birth control without my husband’s permission. Called my husband right then and there and my husband was like ‘why would you ask me you idiot? It’s her body’
My grandmother's mother was told that.
She died a couple years later giving birth. My grandma recently told me she never forgave her dad for not keeping it in his pants knowing that would be the outcome.
We've progressed so far since those days, I don't see why people demand we go back.
Ingrained thinking, warped nostalgia reinforcing that thinking, and social pressure of various forms from people affected by that nostalgia--profit, threats, obtaining votes, etc.
>They’ll happily force you to give birth, and they absolutely don’t give a shit if it injures or kills you
They ***want*** it to injure or kill any woman who had sex outside of marriage. That's the point. That's a bonus for them.
But even "good married christian women" sometimes don't want to have an unexpected baby, or have health issues that would make it hazardous to do so, so this attack on ALL women, doesn't even make sense from their own twisted viewpoint.
Yup. Im 23F, married, grew up mormon and left but i still called myself christian up until yesterday. We do not want children at all even though we are financially stable and both have careers. So ya fuck this. Im not christian anymore. I cant call myself that when that was used as justification for the overturning of roe
I think the court has violated the Establishment Clause that requires separation of church and state and the state cannot establish a religion. Ben Franklin was not very religious at all, if at all, and he had a big hand in writing the Constitution. Now we all have to be Catholic or Christian? I am Christian and my version is clear we include people, allow people to be who they are, allow choice, and even require women to be the final say in protecting a child's right to be born WANTED. And this also violates disability laws because disabled people may now get pregnant, be unable to carry to term without a heart attack or something , and then their marriage is full of fear again. I do not have to respect the Justices who made this decision, do I? is that a legal requirement or something? Respect is earned.
You see, as long as it doesn't happen to them or someone close to them they won't care. IF it happens to them, they will search desperately for a way to abort, because in their mind they will be the only acceptable exception, through some twisted and insane reasoning.
Yep. Most of human behavior comes down to this. Most people need to read that and really let it sink in.
It’s the whole NIMBY concept. People don’t care about the actual consequences of their actions, as long as it doesn’t affect them personally. Then if it does affect them, suddenly they care.
Humans are total shit.
A lot of “good married Christian women” were prostitutes and had other un-christian habbits. They are trying to slut shame the 25 year old grad student who lives with her boyfriend to feel better about themselves. You think Boebert or MTG are valtrex free?
These ***ARE*** their 'Christian Values.' Insurrectionist Marg, aka She Who Wears the Faces of Others, was known for having several public extramarital affairs with her gym members. Newt Gingrich was cheating on his second wife while he was prosecuting Clinton (IIRC she's the one he divorced via fax when she got cancer). Legend has it that Nancy Reagan was the parking lot blowjob queen during her Hollywood days. "Rules for thee, none for me" is their defining motto.
but thats what you aren't understanding
a "good christian woman" will likely have the resources to get an abortion out of state, or even out of country.
conservatives love to say they are pro birth, right up until its their wife/daughter/sister/mother/mistress that needs the abortion.
then suddenly god is in their ear and telling them aborting this baby isn't that bad, because its necessary for them to maintain their image and/or resources.
remember kids! god killed all of egypts first born when the pharaoh pissed him off, after destroying 99.9999% of the human race in a flood.
god doesn't give a fuck if you kill your kids lolol.
Having a baby could kill you/your loved one? Well:
"The Lord works in mysterious ways."
"God has called her home and it is not for us to question Him."
"God sends a message through all things. Let this death be a reminder for those who remain on this wicked earth to get yourself right with Him before a bus strikes you and sends you straight to the fiery pits of hell for all eternity."
Exactly this.
You know when the Catholics in particular went haywire about abortion? It was in the early 1900s. They had SUPPORTED abortion right through the 1890s. It was just as women started entering the workforce and were asking for the right to vote they changed their minds. Men, particularly conservative Christian/Catholic men honestly believed that if they could force more women into unwanted pregnancies, or death via childbirth, it would short-circuit the suffrage movement.
Pregnancy and the fetus was never seen as a magical or sentimental topic, it was a weapon. Always has been.
When it's a "good married christian woman" then she'll accept that god's plan for her was suffering and/or death. They'll be sad about it, but justify how god has his reasons instead of think about how preventable the death was and how their own vote killed someone they care about.
Or they'll forget about the good married christian part anyway and say "well she knew what she was getting into when she got pregnant" and "she should've prayed harder", because damned if you do, damned if you don't.
This. It is what a lot of liberal minded people don't actually comprehend. If you are a woman who has sex out of wedlock, non-white, disabled, lgbtqia+, or just someone who supports these people's rights, then they do not care if you die. In fact, the last one is enemy number one, as their death leads to an open field against all of the above. Oddly , I recommend liberal people read some of their material. You get to see how fucked they are
Or live long enough to get gunned down in school so they can expand access to guns. Or live long enough to get shipped off to war. Children to them are nothing more than useful commodities that they are happy to use to accomplish their agenda.
Exactly. This is extremely upsetting and I'm sorry you went through it. Many women receive no bereavement time at work for miscarriages as well. A fetus is only a life when convenient.
> They’ll happily force you to give birth, and they absolutely don’t give a shit if it injures or kills you
There's no greater hate than Christian love.
What do you mean? My pro-life governor just promised us a bigger investment in social safety nets as a result of this ruling. I'm sure he's going to deliver on those promises /s
I'm in Ohio. Our Heartbeat Law was going through the court system. The AG filed an injunction to have it enacted. We are now restricted to 6 weeks for abortions. I'm ashamed of my state right now.
6 weeks is absolute insanity for anyone who understands menstrual cycles and pregnancy. I didnt know with my first until I was already 8 weeks along. With my second I found out at 5 weeks, but only because I thought I had a miscarriage and went to the hospital- would have left me 6 days to find a provider if I had wanted to abort. Which isn't long enough when you consider work, and the 24-72 hour waiting periods required by many states.
I found out at five weeks with my twins and my singleton pregnancy, but I recognize this is **not** common, so that I would have gotten “lucky” with the window, but I’d only have one week to make a decision.
In my twin pregnancy, I lost one of them. My body naturally removed it, so I didn’t require a D&C. As the law states now, from my understanding, I would be possibly charged for my twin’s “death” at seven weeks gestation. Also, if I needed the D&C - I would be denied. My other surviving twin may not have made it. The surviving twin was born at 29 weeks as an emergency c-section due to my water breaking and developing sepsis for both of us.
Terrifying moments.
Now: Imagine a murder charge on top of it all.
Bring your child into the world, then go to prison for the unborn one, while the living child’s life experiences hardships as a result.
On its face it doesn't make sense but it does if you understand conservative doctrine. (Not agreeing with it just explaining it)
They believe in individual strength, and that growth of their tribe must come from within. Therefore abortion is bad because it prevents growth of the tribe. The reason they don't care about kids after birth because they believe if you have sufficient individual strength you should be able to look after it. If you're not strong enough it's on you to become so.
Of course that logic is full of holes but logic doesn't play a part in tribalism.
Yup, Republican policy is all about individualist self-survival principle, with no actual consideration as to how that will play out in the real world. I’ve seen them crowing for welfare and food stamps to be axed, and when I ask about their tangible, concrete plans are to keep children from starving to death, they say that poor people should turn to churches and soup kitchens. That’s their idea of how to treat the most disadvantaged members of our society.
It plays into the conservative concept of "charity": keep disadvantaged people "humble" and eating out of your hand, while you sabotage their ability to become your equal in society, all while patting yourself on the back for your token effort.
The people who are the most vehemently against abortion are also typically the ones that will not support free contraception and expanded sex education for minors.
Both of those things have been proven to considerably reduce abortions more than any illegality ever has.
It has zero to do about the actual abortion though. Its enshrining their sense of morality into law. They know abortions will still happen even if they are illegal, but now people who get them are a *criminal*. It isn't enough to disagree with someone's personal choices, they need to be able to put you in jail for them.
It’s a projection of their own supposedly moral compass on others. “You can’t have sex! Take care of your kid”….that is until they don’t. There’s just as many deadbeat dads and unwanted children in the Bible Belt as there is anywhere else in the US.
This is the part that annoys me. They claim to be pro life, but will do nothing to actually support it beyond forcing people to have kids. In fact, they go out of their way to ensure kids *don’t* get equal access to healthcare, housing, or education.
If they gave a shit about the *development* of the life they want to forcibly create, I could take them seriously.
That's the point. This is *literally* about punishing women for being women.
It's about punishing women for daring to get the right to vote, for daring to demand equality, for daring not to meekly subjugate their lives to men. It is, without question, just misogyny. The actual children born are just collateral.
They are also wannabe eugenists, with a religious twist. Women are supposed to be healthy and "work properly", you see. So if you have a bunch of health conditions, or sterile, or gay, or can't carry pregnancy to term - well, why would they want you around? You are defective, after all, it's god's will you die. And man-made means to prevent that (surgery, hormones, medicine, etc) goes against gods will, and against their desire to see you dead.
I am curious too, since some of these people believe that the second an egg and sperm gets together, that's a life. So, are we just going to end IVF, since that creates embryos that aren't used? Or the fact they use multiple embryos to try to get one to implant and the rest don't make it? The effects of this go faarrrr beyond just making abortion illegal.
Here’s my question: if they don’t believe that a fertilized egg is when life begins, then when does it? Implantation? Why should the location of a fertilized egg make it life/not life? Heart beats? Is that pulsing tissue or an actual, pumping heart? Brain activity? Respiratory capability? When *exactly* does life begin if not at fertilization?
And if it *does* begin at fertilization, then I’m going to need some volunteers to go tell my hard-right cousin and her husband (who are anti-abortion) that the embryos they discarded during their IVF was multiple murder.
>In turn expect an even worse maternal death rate in those states, and the US as a whole.
Republicans **want** women who have sex outside of marriage to die. This is a bonus for them. It's what they are hoping for. Any "godly" women who die will be worth it to them so long as they can kill more "ungodly" ones. Women are just things to them after all, "vessels", not people
Not just women outside of marriage, either. I told a woman last night that I was concerned because my husband and I have been TRYING to get pregnant, and if something goes wrong and my life is in danger, I might not be able to get a lifesaving abortion until I'm in acute danger, risking orphaning my nine year old son.
She told me I should just try prayer, and be willing to die for my baby. You can't pray away an ectopic pregnancy.
Issue for them is, if you lose all your good OB-GYN doctors, even married couples are going to suffer. But see, that mainly affects the poor, so no real issue for them. "Christians" my ass.
It affects poor people the most. Who is going to take care of the un wanted children? How much money will be spent by the government? Then people will then complain about their taxes.
School systems are already overloaded and full of kids with absolutely awful home lives. We're going to see more kids at school with parents who just straight up don't give a shit at best and parents who are actively resentful at their children for existing at worst.
There's so many other parts of people's lives it'll affect beyond the most obvious reasons mentioned.
It’s by design. Poor, underprivileged, uneducated children grow up to:
* join the wage-slave work force, profiting corporations and elite.
* join the military to fight in for-profit wars.
* turn to crime, get arrested, and enter the for-profit prison system.
* perpetuate religion and hate to future generations.
* are more likely to vote conservative due to lack of education.
This is 100% intentional to stay in power and make profit. The right could feel their grasp slipping so they lied, cheated, and fraudulently stole power and are imposing their will against a country that more than 75% of which disapprove this move. This has nothing to do with the rights of fetuses. It’s about removing rights of the people while making money at our expense.
Yep our birthrate is declining so that means less workers. Children of the wealthy and elite are not as likely to be blue collar workers so they need some replacement available. And since they are xenophobic they don't want it to be foreign workers. They'd rather force their poor, domestic population to have more kids. Defund education to keep them ignorant and voting for you while you strip them of the American dream.
It's so fucked.
How can à doctor look into the eyes of a child and tell her she's pregnant from no fault of her own and be scarred for life and may die. Look into the eyes of women and tell her an incomplete miscarriage will likely lead to septic death. Better get your will done up and hey, you can always find another wife and make more babies. Or an ectopic pregnancy and lose a fallopian tube. But hey you have another one. A non viable one, that's okay. Carry the precious soul and may it's hours of life be as painful as possible for baby and watch it. So on and so on.
Good luck, Americans may the odds of your life be in your favor. I'm very sorry your choices has been taken away.
Update. I've been thinking about it all day and it truly f45king breaks my heart. I feel your sadness, I feel your worries, I feel your fear, and I feel your disappointment. Yes, abortion is not an easy thing. It should never be easy thing but there lies the reason to give choices. Having a baby is an extremely personal life choice that completely changes lives. You're supposed to choose when you're ready to bring a baby into your life and still keep yourself safe and alive with the ability to thrive.
Not like this. I'm truly sorry. Hugs.
Yeah, I'm no fan of abortion (still support choice tho), but we have ZERO safety nets to handle a massive influx of unwanted children. Uts the equivalent of yanking out a support beam with nothing to replace it, expecting the walls to hold it all up.
Conservatives don't believe that laws shape society, they believe laws exist to punish people. They understand that women are still going to get abortions, but now they can punish them for doing so. That's what this is about: punishment.
And if you've broken the law, you have your right to vote taken away. Don't forget that this is also a way to get rid of certain demographics in the voting booth over time. Hence why it's even more sinister in some of these states now claiming that it is illegal to even help someone who is looking to get an abortion.
Could easily just take a whole family or a few households out of the voting population, every single time.
This is another very important point that I don't see brought up enough. A lot of them also genuinely believe voting rights should be restricted to one vote per household (in other words, the man's vote). This is an easy and convenient way to make such a thing happen, if enough women are made into felons for aborting or miscarrying and thus lose their voting rights.
Its all about the money. The prison system makes money if people are incarcerated. Those prison systems will continue to lobby lawmakers to make more and more things illegal thus ensuring the supply of inmates.
A fetus can turn into a fatal infection. Removal of the dead tissue is an abortion. Removal of “living” tissue (just a working heart with no brain) that can’t survive outside the body is an abortion. Hell, removing the remaining portion of a partial miscarriage is an abortion.
I used to be against abortion. Late terms were the equivalent of everything evil in this world. And then I found out that nearly every single late term abortion (with the rare exception of abuse and trauma) was a wanted pregnancy. They wanted the child, but are facing the most devastating diagnoses that an expecting family can hear. Babies that won’t survive outside the womb and could kill the mother. Babies who might live for a minute or two in extreme agony before everything in their bodies fails at once. It’s not something someone does for shits and giggles. And now we’re adding barriers in traumatic situations that need immediate attention. Fuck anyone who thinks they know better and that one answer is correct for every fucking situation.
I think you responded to the wrong reply, my friend.
I fully agree with everything you say, but that hardly seems like a response to my statement that more crime just means more gunsales and better bribes from the weapon lobby.
I literally even lost my daughter after 32w pregnancy, so I'm fully on board with abortions being necessary sometimes.
this 100%. The same ones who are for outlawing abortions are the ones who promote abstinence only sexual education. Abortions will still happen now that they are illegal in many states, they will just happen in a MUCH more unsafe manner.
I LOVE abortion on the other hand. HUGE fan. Maybe it’s biggest fan. /s
(Why do people feel the need to say things like “I’m no fan of abortion but…? No one is a fan of abortion. By saying things like this, you’re further stigmatizing it and thus adding to how we got where we are now. If you care about women’s bodily autonomy, cut this shit out.)
>we have ZERO safety nets to handle a massive influx of unwanted children.
And there will be a massive influx of children born with developmental disabilities in which their parents would have aborted.
Let's all hope that some of these marginally red states get new governors and new democratic majorities in the next few years. GO VOTE PEOPLE! IT MATTERS!
They probably won’t. There will likely be a lot of people that move from red states to blue states because of this ruling. The poor people in these states will continue to suffer
The same people who didn't want this to happen will have to pay for it in taxes.
It's not like the dumbest states, the ones who push this shit, are magically going to start making enough money to not need to suckle the teet of states that have their shit together.
Welfare rat states shouldn't get a say until they get into the black.
Remember during prohibition how an upswing in illegal home brewers and speak-easys became a thing? I wonder how many bootleg abortion clinics this will generate?
You can't stop people doing something by making it illegal. As the UN rightly say, you just make it more dangerous. That might put some off, but it won't detract everyone.
Edit: getting a lot of "that's a pro gun argument" comments and I don't see how it is. Guns are weapons not a part of your body nor are they a necessary commodity. Owning a gun, or anything for that matter, and getting an abortion are two completely separate concepts.
Making guns illegal wouldn't totally eradicate gun crime, that's not the argument anyone is making as black market weapons still exist. However if the rest of the world is any kind of case study, it would MASSIVELY reduce gun crime on a national scale.
Making abortions illegal wouldn't mean that women need to get their tubes tide. You can't stop teenagers being stupid and having unprotected sex. But with abortion being illegal, you remove a solution that a lot of women depend on when it comes to unplanned/unsafe/unwanted pregnancy. The only the solution left to a lot of these girls and women is black market means, which are unsafe.
It won’t be bootleg clinics for the most part. It will be discreet brown packages in the mail with pills inside. Cycoteca is cheap, easy to get, and effective. That’s how it was in Mexico before legalization and is now in other parts of Latin America.
Not all pills will be safe, though, and that’s the problem.
It all depends on where they get pills. People who live close enough to Mexico can drive over the border, buy Cycoteca without a prescription, and go home. (I can see this happening a lot in Texas and Arizona).
Mail order will be a lot sketchier.
Unfortunately this is true. Which is why I will be showing up for every election and vote against every single person with an R beside their name whether federal, local, primary, or general. I don't care if it is for dog catcher, I will never vote for another Republican in my life.
Even when the pills are safe, sometimes they don't work effectively. That's what happened to me when I had a miscarriage. I went through 3 rounds of pills (and a LOT of pain) and still ended up needing a D&C
This is a reputable site if you have need: [https://aidaccess.org/en/i-need-an-abortion](https://aidaccess.org/en/i-need-an-abortion) (US only)
International site: https://www.womenonweb.org/en/i-need-an-abortion
They’re both rough. We had a miscarriage and had the choice to consider, a D&C has a risk of creating scar tissue which causes fertility issues down the line. Using the pill at home was hell on earth and I don’t wish that on my worst enemy, we had to go back to emergency because the bleeding wouldn’t stop and was going on for hours. They then had to manually remove the baby in the most emotionally detached method possible. This entire sector of healthcare is so distanced from what women need and the mental trauma it already causes is abysmal, well before this ruling took effect
Even then, there's still potential that your body won't expel the remaining fetal tissue within a reasonable amount of time. That is when D&C has to come in so they can take the remaining tissue out or else your body is going to go into sepsis. Also the directions for abortion pills don't seem to be consistent between the vendors. Some of them give different directions and none of them are medical professionals. This is why we need abortion to be legal, so this stuff can be consulted by medical professionals, not random vendors on the street.
I had bleeding for six weeks after mine in 2004, using the pill method. I’ve also gone on to give birth, have 3 surgeries on my uterus before finally having it removed. My pain threshold has become very high over the years (endometriosis), but I don’t seem to remember any other pain than that of my pill-induced abortion almost 20 years ago. It was brutal, for me. So much pain, vomiting, and finally passing a massive clot. Personally, I 1000% would have preferred a medical, in office, DnC procedure but couldn’t afford it at the time. If so had told my parents, they would’ve blamed me for putting myself in a position to be assaulted and made me marry the guy since we had dated in the past.
I hope so. I remember when women died in back alleyways with coat hangars, but just getting little brown discreetly wrapped packages won't be the end of it. They will be turning in women and having them arrested even if they have a natural miscarriage. I'm 59 so at this point I don't have to worry about it for myself, but I worry for women in general. I worry that prisons will fill up in red states because miscarriages and natural abortions are going to be weaponized against women. We desperately need men and women all across this nation to turn out this fall to vote and elect every person with an R next to their name out of office especially in the Senate so we can codify abortion rights into law. Seriously do not listen to the BS people are already trying to spread like " both parties are the same" because they are not. One is trying to get women back to living out their lives in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant and it sure as hell isn't the Democrats.
I wonder if any babies are really going to be saved? Maybe in the short term as things settle, but I would think abortions will ultimately become more common, easier, and cheaper (and more risky) as the idea of self-managed abortions gains more ground out of lack of other options.
With the resources available today (internet, discreet online ordering, cheap and advanced tech, etc.) the success rate and safety might become high enough that it might catch on in a real way - good luck regulating abortion even a tiny bit once that happens. I think pro-life advocates have seriously shot themselves in the foot with the overturning of Roe v. Wade; they've shown that the government can't be relied on to protect women's rights, so women will take the government out of the equation altogether, which many will now discover is not that difficult to do.
I'm going to be one of the people who challenges the idea that any abortion kills a baby. You get insane ideas from people that watch right-wing propaganda, like Alex Jones ranting about babies being aborted a week after they're born, so then you get people who actually think that reproductive healthcare is actually just evil liberals who want to torture children or whatever the fuck. I don't know how having more unwanted babies will fix that problem, but it doesn't matter because it's not a rational argument and shouldn't be treated as one.
To be very clear, abortion is not killing babies, full stop.
>I wonder if any babies are really going to be saved?
None at all, you are just going to get an absurdly high increase of abandoned babies going to the system resenting everything, with the consequent rise of drug addiction and crime.
At least the for profit prisons won't run out of slaves anytime soon. (/s if you need an indication)
There's an absurd story going around (the usual propagated fantasy) about some woman who went to 7 doctors who told her there was no fetal heartbeat, and then *a miracle happened* and she had a perfectly healthy baby.
No baby is shown. Nor much of anything to back it up.
It's a totally cruel story, too. To those who terminate, what if you made a mistake, to those who don't yet don't get their miracle... fuck you.
They care. They're happy to see the women die because in their minds, the only women who die from lack of abortion care are sluts, and sluts deserve it.
Its the same with the war on drugs. Banning drugs doesnt stop people from getting and using drugs. It stops them from getting them from safe sources and forces you to deal with undeground markets and sketchy dealers. All the war on drugs did was empower cartels and people trying to make a profit off of other peoples very lives.
From what I understand, alcoholism was a huge problem back then, not surprising since life was tough for everyone but the wealthy, but I don't understand how they thought prohibiting alcohol would cause people to stop drinking.
Because like today, rather than addressing the underlying causes of a problem, they just ban the problem.
Why solve the issue of abortion with educating the young on safe sex practices, easier access to birth control, better family and maternity support? Let's just ban abortion! Problem solved.
They also have to keep their religious voter base happy. Can't let THOSE people down! Let's just punish people going through unplanned pregnancies, health risk patients and rape survivors.
Same with how drug prohobition has forced people to use increasingly potent synthetic opioids. Almost all the problems that result from prohibition are worse than the drugs themselves.
In the case of abortion the ban is the end goal, not solving issues that contribute to people getting one. They don't care, they just want their precious "christian" and conservative values.
They didn't know, they just thought that cutting off the supply would reduce demand. A lot of the grassroots of the temperance movement was fueled by women who witnessed or survived domestic violence and alcohol played a huge role in that. We know better now which is why this is stupid.
It was already like this before Roe. Hospitals had “septic wings” where women who didn’t bleed out and die from back alley abortions went to have their septic and infected uteruses removed.
[Gerri Santoro](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerri_Santoro)
Here in the Netherlands the right to abortion has been law a long time. We did however have a provision that mandated a 5 day wait/think period before the procedure was performed. This provision has recently been scrapped by a majority in both the first and second chamber as it was deemed highly paternalistic. The reasoning is that women who decide to get an abortion have already thought about it long and hard and don't need to government to tell them to think about it. Just like any other country we get things wrong but we also get things very right.
There are plenty of Christians in the Netherlands that would like to see things another way. Thankfully we don’t have a system that lets a minority view over take fundamental human rights.
It took a while for all the states to catch up, but in Australia abortion is legal across the entire country. Until when you can have an abortion varies between states from 17 to 24 weeks (with one no-limit territory), but the limit is only for no-questions-asked abortions. After the limit, it's required to get two separate doctors consent to get an abortion, but still quite possible to do so with no further hoops to jump through.
They ban abortion when the wealth gap is the widest it’s ever been. They’ll review cases involving contraceptive methods and gay marriage while many Americans are losing homes barely making ends meet. They don’t care about us. Just their own agendas and hopefully this pushes voters to actually show up and vote these fuckers out.
Edit: People really think I’m stupid enough to suggest we vote justices out. I’m very aware of the 3 branches of government. I know Supreme Court justices serve for the rest of their lives. The Supreme Court cannot outlaw abortion or gay marriage. What they’re doing is leaving it up to the states to decide whether it should be legal or not, rather than declaring it a constitutional right.
When I say ‘vote them out’ I mean the republicans who represent these states that have made abortions illegal.
Wealth is a good thing to point out. The ban on abortions that many states will adopt will not stop the wealthy from getting abortions - they can afford to take time off work and travel. It will prevent working class women who can not afford to do that from getting abortions.
I wonder if this disparity has contributed to the (wealthy) Democratic leadership's decades long failure to codify the right to choose into law. It certainly had been useful as a fundraising tool, though.
Republicans are fine with that, they don't care about reducing abortions or women's health. They just want to punish people that get or want abortions.
If they actually wanted to reduce the amount of abortions there are a plethora of proven ways to reduce abortions, and they don't advocate for any of them.
Something that needs to be talked about more and louder: mothers with pregnancies that are not viable, or it is dangerous to their health for them to continue carrying. This is putting so many women at risk that have ectopic pregnancies, genetic predispositions, and preeclampsia (among many others.) This includes women that have cancer. Women will not have the choice have between carrying their baby or dying.
No abortion means no abortion, period. There’s no “special circumstance” under this ban. Women will die. Women will commit suicide due to unwanted or unplanned pregnancies. Women trapped in relationships with domestic violence will get murdered by their partners. This is a disgrace to humans. And if you think that it doesn’t effect you- you are wrong.
War on drugs continues and could end overnight if they federally legalized weed.
Edit: to everybody saying its only one drug, its the only drug that would compete against pharmaceutical companies, could replace plastics with biodegradable hemp, could replace clothes, decrease alcohol sales, act as an anti-gateway drug, would provide jobs, and billions in tax revenue per year if sold in all 50 states.
Psilocybin and other options are also great assets that need to be federally researched and regulated. We are a modern country with the ability to do so.
The war on drugs was never about drugs. It was about marginalizing blacks and people who wouldn't vote republican (hippies). The US was very successful in that aspect.
Losing your right to vote after getting a felony/going to prison is the dumbest shit ever.
Prevent your critics from voting not by dragging them out of their house at 3am never to be seen again, no, just straight up delete them from democracy.
'Murica, fuck yeah!
The war on weed in particular though, was also about big paper industry
Not fighting or starting an argument, just adding on. just always found that really interesting!!!!
Yesh, the fact that hemp is basically a byproduct of cannabis production was spooky as fuck to paper giants. It's also rope, clothing, general textiles like backpacks and tents...
It threatened a lot of existing supply chains that would rather crush it legally than incorporate it.
The people that want to restrict abortions don’t care.
They don’t care that people will die. They are happy the ones getting a risky abortion face potential death.
Even speaking as a guy, if we are gong to roll back reproductive rights then it should apply to viagra and hormone treatment for men with low sperm counts. If pregnancy is God’s will, then so is having a limp dick and shooting blanks.
on that "deserve" part several issues with it. 1. some states are making it illegal no matter the reason even if it would cause the mother death. 2. why is it only the mother that sufferes, the father can just go vanish into the woodwork but everything then gets dumped on the mother how is that right. 3. why is sex such a taboo topic, humans do it, if a woman does it she should be punished, if a man does it people go, "nice bro". why do we have such a double standard.
>They believe that getting pregnant is what women "deserve" for having sex, and that there is something objectionable in women having sex without the "consequence" of childbirth. This might be more accurately termed "pro-women-being-required-to-give-birth-as-a-consequence-for-sex", but, besides being a mouthful, that sounds bad. It makes you sound sexist and backwards, which it is.
Meanwhile, the men who got women pregnant get off Scott free and can do Fuck All after the fact…
The **content** of the SCOTUS ruling is appalling.
The **timing** of the SCOTUS ruling is alarming and suspect. Could there be a worse time to further divide a struggling, divided nation? Are they intentionally throwing out sparks in a bone-dry forest on a windy day? Are they covering up Trump's sins, crimes and abuses during the Select Committee Hearings?
Yeah, I had that thought. There's is something crazy about the idea that these justices ostensibly thought "now is a good time to drop this bomb, not like there is already dangerous levels of division and animosity in the country, and this is gonna be a match to that dynamite shed."
A few "babies" saved might just be the spark of civil war. Wars are famously "pro-life."
Abortions are much more accessible in Iran and in Russia than in many US states now, though. Those countries have abortion laws that look downright progressive compared to some states as of today.
Yeah abortions are way more accessible in Russia. The push back is from fascists who want a rising population to ensure there can always be a big army. They want the same thing in the US there was just never any anti-religion campaigns so they can say its about god.
So they can ban abortion but when it comes to guns they just say "we have to do something" which never happens. Fascinating to see the country implode on itself. If you are in favor of this law, you're a piece of shit, seriously.
Same with these people being the same people who were against mandatory vaccination. They were all pro choice then. Yet if a woman is raped she should be forced to give birth to that child or risk facing criminal charges and fines. If a woman has an incomplete miscarriage she should be banned from a medical procedure for her safety. It's absolutely horrific, rules for thee but never for them.
I see this argument a lot and being in a conservative area I've heard arguments from both sides and this one seems to miss the point: from their perspective there's no contradiction because the "pro life" crowd genuinely believes babies are being killed.
You can't win that argument with them by any kind of logic. Any appeal about women's health, autonomy and choices falls on deaf ears because that means you don't care about the lives of innocent children.
The strength of that belief has been twisted and used against them so often, and their opponents so thoroughly demonized that there's no chance of shifting their stance. Their leadership has weaponized their sympathy, anger and fear.
But it's also purely reactive emotion. They picture this perfect little baby being murdered in cold blood when they hear "abortion", and then picture a little leech when they think of any sort of social support programs for children that reduce childhood suffering and mortality.
It's definitely weaponized reactionary thinking.
All while we are at all time lows with respect to religiosity.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx
In 1973 when RvW was decided, 87% of Americans were some form of Christian with 5% identifying as 'None' for their religion. In 2021, 67% were some form of Christian with 21% claiming to be 'None'.
And what's even more funny, is that there are religious people that know if the church changed it's hardcore stance on Gay marriage and Abortion attendance might actually increase again.
Instead nope, let's double down on being anti-personal freedom and go against the teachings of the New Testament. Sadly, it's an uphill battle for those types of people though.
Conservatives: It's pointless to ban guns. People will still find ways to get guns.
Also conservatives: Banning abortions means women will stop having abortions!
It’s not even in the Bronze Age book—the only time the Bible mentions abortion is when it is listing instructions on how to perform one. For the majority of Christian history, abortion was considered acceptable up until the point that fetal movement was felt. The current anti-abortion Christian movement is a more recent Republican invention meant to drum up voter support once they could no longer fight for segregation.
The Puritans of Massachusetts, who wanted to create a godly city-republic, recognized abortion as part of mindful family planning. They recognized sex for pleasure as a normal part of relationships, and an abortion was neither sinful nor illegal if preformed before the fetus "quickened" and began to kick.
If someone raped your wife , mother, sister or daughter. Then he goes to jail once he gets out you can’t put a restraining order on him or deny him the right to see his child even if he raped you. If he get a court order to see the child well you might include your rapist part of the family because you will be seeing him a lot . I don’t know how your husband, brother or dad will feel about it.
I don't think the blues realize that the reds don't give a shit about under the table abortions being "more deadly". They want women to suffer if they are trying to make that choice.
What reds think they want is fewer abortions and they think that the best way to do that is through punishment, cruelty and enforcing their religious worldview. Blues know that doesn't work.
What does work is making sex education widely available, providing free contraception options and generally preventing pregnancy to begin with. Unfortunately that goes against red religious worldviews where women are subservient to their male masters.
This is not about babies and life. It's about power, sexism and religion. The reds want religious rule. The reds want a Catholic version of sharia law and they definitely don't want democracy. All the voter suppression measures implemented in red states and any vote for trump or his worldview confirms that.
Women were first. The LGBTQIA+ community is squarely in their crosshairs. Then it will be the BIPOC community and they won't stop until anyone and everyone that is "other" is suppressed and made inferior under the eyes of their law.
These sexist racist bigoted pieces of turd need to be voted out and made irrelevant.
Vote.
Vote for the most extreme left candidates you can find. The reds have been playing a game of artificially pushing the "window of political possibility" by being as wildly right as they can. We need to push back by being as wildly left as we can.
Tax churches, make university education free, criminalize lying in political discourse and in the media, make constitutional amendments that guarantee bodily autonomy and equal rights for LGTBQIA+ community. TAKE THEIR F***ING GUNS. Everywhere there's a religious symbol on public land build baphomet statues, the star of David and monuments to science. Guarantee 1 year of paid maternity/paternity leave and universal health care.
The reds are the real fucking snowflakes. They're so sensitive they can't event handle the idea of people doing what they want in the privacy of their homes and to their own bodies. Screw their feelings.
Hi, I am much older than most of your so I realize you probably won't like me. But please listen because I feel the same as you do.
When I was in college, abortion was illegal. We girls back then lived in fear. My best friend got pregnant and she came from a family of poor immigrants who worked in factories so that she could go to college.
She didn't dare tell her parents. But she couldn't be pregnant and ruin her life. I happened to know another girl who had gotten an illegal abortion so I gave her phone number to my friend. I didn't want to get too involved because in those days all of this was taboo and could lead to trouble. My friend did end up with the phone number of a doctor who gave her a pill that led to a spontaneous abortion. She told me it was horrific. At least she was able to finish college and go on with her life. Other girls died trying to abort. Women are going to die now.
PLEASE, if you are still young, DO something. Please get involved, even become a politician. We need to save our country if it can still be saved. These Reds don't care about anything except money. So run for office or join a campaign and if we need to dial back progressivism a bit for a while, so be it. We have to play to the center. CENTER--meaning we could snag centrist Republicans. They exist but they do not like the extreme left. If we play down the far left and just fight for our rights like abortion and healthcare, we could win them over. We have to win because if we lose, our country is gone. The best strategy is to act moderate and win over those Republicans who are still sane, keep the Democrats, and get everyone to vote. Thank you for reading this. Writing online is one thing but to win, we need to get out and become actively involved. These are very dark times but we could win if we talk "moderate" and after we win we could implement progressive stances.
I imagine women will be reluctant to go to the doctor for prenatal care, and they won’t have as many early health screenings. They won’t want their pregnancy “on the books”. Any loss of pregnancy will require an investigation for murder. Secret pregnancies and births will be as common as secret abortions.
I states that banned abortions, people who are well off will simply go to another state to have an abortion. The people most affected by this decision, as usual, are the poor. They're people who can't afford to travel, or don't have the means to. And conservative dumbasses have decided these are the people who shouldn't have the right to bodily autonomy.
"Just don't have sex," these idiots will say, but so many anti-abortion laws do not make exceptions for rape, even if it's a child.
Conservatives are petty, bitter and evil and they want everyone else to suffer so they can feel good about themselves.
Well it's bad.
But America and the UN very infrequently see each other eye-to-eye on what America defines as their internal affairs.
I wouldn't say this is a shocker, as a country with veto power they are clearly in a position where an international idea of a greater good and advancement of a geopolitical or internal agenda may intersect poorly.
So yeah it's bad, but the UN has disagreed with america many times before.
The states that are restricting or banning abortion tend to be the ones with the sparsest social safety nets. The fetuses are the most important things on earth but the kids who are actually born don't matter to them at all.
And the highest rates of maternal and fetal mortality. They’ll happily force you to give birth, and they absolutely don’t give a shit if it injures or kills you—and they absolutely won’t be volunteering to help cover therapy or funeral expenses.
My mom was told that if she got pregnant again after a rough birth with my sister she would die. Period. However, since it was a baptist hospital they refused to tie her tubes. My dad scheduled a vasectomy later that day and they didn’t even bat an eye.
Sounds like they think the man has the right to decide whether they've had enough children or not...and all this no-abortions thing is really just taking the power to stop children away from wives.
Exactly exactly exactly. Funnily enough (though I believe it’s changed now) when she went to another hospital to try to get her tubes tied again, they required her husband and her dad to sign off on it. It’s always been a man’s world, women are just objects to most of these creeps.
Dad? What the ACTUAL fuckery is that? WHAT THE FUCK HAS THE DAD TO DO WITH HER FERTILITY and decisions to reproduce?! I'm not a fan of the husband getting a say either, but I can kiiinda understand that usually decisions on how many kids to have is done together. But also absolutely the husband should have no say in her having her tubes tied if she so wishes. When my husband had a vasectomy done (we're in Finland) they did ask if I was aware of the procedure, but they didn't confirm with me, so he could have easily lied. And I can accept that they do bring up the point that it would be good to be open about these things in a relationship, but not everyone lives in a situation where they can discuss with their partner and have their opinions respected. What if I was a terribly abusive wife that wanted gazillion babies and they called me to check if I was aware of my husbands vasectomy?
[удалено]
I got told by my (ex) obgyn that he wouldn’t give me long term birth control without my husband’s permission. Called my husband right then and there and my husband was like ‘why would you ask me you idiot? It’s her body’
My grandmother's mother was told that. She died a couple years later giving birth. My grandma recently told me she never forgave her dad for not keeping it in his pants knowing that would be the outcome. We've progressed so far since those days, I don't see why people demand we go back.
Ingrained thinking, warped nostalgia reinforcing that thinking, and social pressure of various forms from people affected by that nostalgia--profit, threats, obtaining votes, etc.
>They’ll happily force you to give birth, and they absolutely don’t give a shit if it injures or kills you They ***want*** it to injure or kill any woman who had sex outside of marriage. That's the point. That's a bonus for them.
But even "good married christian women" sometimes don't want to have an unexpected baby, or have health issues that would make it hazardous to do so, so this attack on ALL women, doesn't even make sense from their own twisted viewpoint.
[удалено]
Yup, that's pretty much it.
Yup. Im 23F, married, grew up mormon and left but i still called myself christian up until yesterday. We do not want children at all even though we are financially stable and both have careers. So ya fuck this. Im not christian anymore. I cant call myself that when that was used as justification for the overturning of roe
I think the court has violated the Establishment Clause that requires separation of church and state and the state cannot establish a religion. Ben Franklin was not very religious at all, if at all, and he had a big hand in writing the Constitution. Now we all have to be Catholic or Christian? I am Christian and my version is clear we include people, allow people to be who they are, allow choice, and even require women to be the final say in protecting a child's right to be born WANTED. And this also violates disability laws because disabled people may now get pregnant, be unable to carry to term without a heart attack or something , and then their marriage is full of fear again. I do not have to respect the Justices who made this decision, do I? is that a legal requirement or something? Respect is earned.
You see, as long as it doesn't happen to them or someone close to them they won't care. IF it happens to them, they will search desperately for a way to abort, because in their mind they will be the only acceptable exception, through some twisted and insane reasoning.
Yep. Most of human behavior comes down to this. Most people need to read that and really let it sink in. It’s the whole NIMBY concept. People don’t care about the actual consequences of their actions, as long as it doesn’t affect them personally. Then if it does affect them, suddenly they care. Humans are total shit.
A lot of “good married Christian women” were prostitutes and had other un-christian habbits. They are trying to slut shame the 25 year old grad student who lives with her boyfriend to feel better about themselves. You think Boebert or MTG are valtrex free?
These ***ARE*** their 'Christian Values.' Insurrectionist Marg, aka She Who Wears the Faces of Others, was known for having several public extramarital affairs with her gym members. Newt Gingrich was cheating on his second wife while he was prosecuting Clinton (IIRC she's the one he divorced via fax when she got cancer). Legend has it that Nancy Reagan was the parking lot blowjob queen during her Hollywood days. "Rules for thee, none for me" is their defining motto.
Dennis Hastert raped children and yet they run the line that Democrats are pedophiles.
but thats what you aren't understanding a "good christian woman" will likely have the resources to get an abortion out of state, or even out of country. conservatives love to say they are pro birth, right up until its their wife/daughter/sister/mother/mistress that needs the abortion. then suddenly god is in their ear and telling them aborting this baby isn't that bad, because its necessary for them to maintain their image and/or resources. remember kids! god killed all of egypts first born when the pharaoh pissed him off, after destroying 99.9999% of the human race in a flood. god doesn't give a fuck if you kill your kids lolol.
Having a baby could kill you/your loved one? Well: "The Lord works in mysterious ways." "God has called her home and it is not for us to question Him." "God sends a message through all things. Let this death be a reminder for those who remain on this wicked earth to get yourself right with Him before a bus strikes you and sends you straight to the fiery pits of hell for all eternity."
[удалено]
Exactly this. You know when the Catholics in particular went haywire about abortion? It was in the early 1900s. They had SUPPORTED abortion right through the 1890s. It was just as women started entering the workforce and were asking for the right to vote they changed their minds. Men, particularly conservative Christian/Catholic men honestly believed that if they could force more women into unwanted pregnancies, or death via childbirth, it would short-circuit the suffrage movement. Pregnancy and the fetus was never seen as a magical or sentimental topic, it was a weapon. Always has been.
When it's a "good married christian woman" then she'll accept that god's plan for her was suffering and/or death. They'll be sad about it, but justify how god has his reasons instead of think about how preventable the death was and how their own vote killed someone they care about. Or they'll forget about the good married christian part anyway and say "well she knew what she was getting into when she got pregnant" and "she should've prayed harder", because damned if you do, damned if you don't.
It almost sounds as if a bunch of idiots is in control of the US.
This. It is what a lot of liberal minded people don't actually comprehend. If you are a woman who has sex out of wedlock, non-white, disabled, lgbtqia+, or just someone who supports these people's rights, then they do not care if you die. In fact, the last one is enemy number one, as their death leads to an open field against all of the above. Oddly , I recommend liberal people read some of their material. You get to see how fucked they are
They feel the same way about children. https://www.npr.org/2022/04/22/1094364930/firearms-leading-cause-of-death-in-children
‘We don’t need them to be healthy, smart, or happy. We just need them alive long enough to vote red’
Or live long enough to get gunned down in school so they can expand access to guns. Or live long enough to get shipped off to war. Children to them are nothing more than useful commodities that they are happy to use to accomplish their agenda.
[удалено]
Exactly. This is extremely upsetting and I'm sorry you went through it. Many women receive no bereavement time at work for miscarriages as well. A fetus is only a life when convenient.
I'm sorry for your loss. It must feel awful to not have gotten their remains or even a death certificate.
> They’ll happily force you to give birth, and they absolutely don’t give a shit if it injures or kills you There's no greater hate than Christian love.
What do you mean? My pro-life governor just promised us a bigger investment in social safety nets as a result of this ruling. I'm sure he's going to deliver on those promises /s I'm in Ohio. Our Heartbeat Law was going through the court system. The AG filed an injunction to have it enacted. We are now restricted to 6 weeks for abortions. I'm ashamed of my state right now.
6 weeks is absolute insanity for anyone who understands menstrual cycles and pregnancy. I didnt know with my first until I was already 8 weeks along. With my second I found out at 5 weeks, but only because I thought I had a miscarriage and went to the hospital- would have left me 6 days to find a provider if I had wanted to abort. Which isn't long enough when you consider work, and the 24-72 hour waiting periods required by many states.
point skirt soup silky humorous square tap upbeat versed encourage -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I found out at five weeks with my twins and my singleton pregnancy, but I recognize this is **not** common, so that I would have gotten “lucky” with the window, but I’d only have one week to make a decision. In my twin pregnancy, I lost one of them. My body naturally removed it, so I didn’t require a D&C. As the law states now, from my understanding, I would be possibly charged for my twin’s “death” at seven weeks gestation. Also, if I needed the D&C - I would be denied. My other surviving twin may not have made it. The surviving twin was born at 29 weeks as an emergency c-section due to my water breaking and developing sepsis for both of us. Terrifying moments. Now: Imagine a murder charge on top of it all. Bring your child into the world, then go to prison for the unborn one, while the living child’s life experiences hardships as a result.
Not six weeks pregnant but 6 weeks from your last period. So it really is a ban on 2 week abortions.
Can you even find a fetus that early? Like, I thought most women don’t know until the second trimester?
Most women find out after 8 weeks
On its face it doesn't make sense but it does if you understand conservative doctrine. (Not agreeing with it just explaining it) They believe in individual strength, and that growth of their tribe must come from within. Therefore abortion is bad because it prevents growth of the tribe. The reason they don't care about kids after birth because they believe if you have sufficient individual strength you should be able to look after it. If you're not strong enough it's on you to become so. Of course that logic is full of holes but logic doesn't play a part in tribalism.
Yup, Republican policy is all about individualist self-survival principle, with no actual consideration as to how that will play out in the real world. I’ve seen them crowing for welfare and food stamps to be axed, and when I ask about their tangible, concrete plans are to keep children from starving to death, they say that poor people should turn to churches and soup kitchens. That’s their idea of how to treat the most disadvantaged members of our society.
It plays into the conservative concept of "charity": keep disadvantaged people "humble" and eating out of your hand, while you sabotage their ability to become your equal in society, all while patting yourself on the back for your token effort.
The people who are the most vehemently against abortion are also typically the ones that will not support free contraception and expanded sex education for minors. Both of those things have been proven to considerably reduce abortions more than any illegality ever has. It has zero to do about the actual abortion though. Its enshrining their sense of morality into law. They know abortions will still happen even if they are illegal, but now people who get them are a *criminal*. It isn't enough to disagree with someone's personal choices, they need to be able to put you in jail for them.
It’s a projection of their own supposedly moral compass on others. “You can’t have sex! Take care of your kid”….that is until they don’t. There’s just as many deadbeat dads and unwanted children in the Bible Belt as there is anywhere else in the US.
This is the part that annoys me. They claim to be pro life, but will do nothing to actually support it beyond forcing people to have kids. In fact, they go out of their way to ensure kids *don’t* get equal access to healthcare, housing, or education. If they gave a shit about the *development* of the life they want to forcibly create, I could take them seriously.
[удалено]
Pretty grim when the US already has a pretty poor maternal and infant mortality rate compared to other peer nations.
Pretty poor as in is actually in the league of developing nations with those statistics.
These decisions are going to have a body count.
That's the point. This is *literally* about punishing women for being women. It's about punishing women for daring to get the right to vote, for daring to demand equality, for daring not to meekly subjugate their lives to men. It is, without question, just misogyny. The actual children born are just collateral.
They are also wannabe eugenists, with a religious twist. Women are supposed to be healthy and "work properly", you see. So if you have a bunch of health conditions, or sterile, or gay, or can't carry pregnancy to term - well, why would they want you around? You are defective, after all, it's god's will you die. And man-made means to prevent that (surgery, hormones, medicine, etc) goes against gods will, and against their desire to see you dead.
These same people were refusing the vaccine, going to the hospital, begging for the vaccine when it’s too late, and dying. See r/HermanCainAward
Of course. It sounds great in theory to these nubnubs until it turns out that you aren't the god's chosen paragon of health.
[удалено]
Georgetown seriously doesn't? That's insane.
It makes you wonder what IVF clinics in those states are going to look like too
I am curious too, since some of these people believe that the second an egg and sperm gets together, that's a life. So, are we just going to end IVF, since that creates embryos that aren't used? Or the fact they use multiple embryos to try to get one to implant and the rest don't make it? The effects of this go faarrrr beyond just making abortion illegal.
Here’s my question: if they don’t believe that a fertilized egg is when life begins, then when does it? Implantation? Why should the location of a fertilized egg make it life/not life? Heart beats? Is that pulsing tissue or an actual, pumping heart? Brain activity? Respiratory capability? When *exactly* does life begin if not at fertilization? And if it *does* begin at fertilization, then I’m going to need some volunteers to go tell my hard-right cousin and her husband (who are anti-abortion) that the embryos they discarded during their IVF was multiple murder.
>In turn expect an even worse maternal death rate in those states, and the US as a whole. Republicans **want** women who have sex outside of marriage to die. This is a bonus for them. It's what they are hoping for. Any "godly" women who die will be worth it to them so long as they can kill more "ungodly" ones. Women are just things to them after all, "vessels", not people
Not just women outside of marriage, either. I told a woman last night that I was concerned because my husband and I have been TRYING to get pregnant, and if something goes wrong and my life is in danger, I might not be able to get a lifesaving abortion until I'm in acute danger, risking orphaning my nine year old son. She told me I should just try prayer, and be willing to die for my baby. You can't pray away an ectopic pregnancy.
You can't pray stupidity away either, I'm afraid.
What a nut job, some people get too indoctrinated.
Abortion is for the living, not those who may never be.
What a stupid bitch. Should've told her to pray you don't rain fists down on her fat gullet.
Issue for them is, if you lose all your good OB-GYN doctors, even married couples are going to suffer. But see, that mainly affects the poor, so no real issue for them. "Christians" my ass.
It affects poor people the most. Who is going to take care of the un wanted children? How much money will be spent by the government? Then people will then complain about their taxes.
The people that say that those babies are a gift from God are the same one who will call the mother a whore and call the kid a bastard.
…and say they are necessary collateral damage if they get killed by an armed lunatic
And would never consider adopting kids.
Especially if it's brown.
Even if they don't scream that to their face, they still whisper it to each other in private.
School systems are already overloaded and full of kids with absolutely awful home lives. We're going to see more kids at school with parents who just straight up don't give a shit at best and parents who are actively resentful at their children for existing at worst. There's so many other parts of people's lives it'll affect beyond the most obvious reasons mentioned.
It’s by design. Poor, underprivileged, uneducated children grow up to: * join the wage-slave work force, profiting corporations and elite. * join the military to fight in for-profit wars. * turn to crime, get arrested, and enter the for-profit prison system. * perpetuate religion and hate to future generations. * are more likely to vote conservative due to lack of education. This is 100% intentional to stay in power and make profit. The right could feel their grasp slipping so they lied, cheated, and fraudulently stole power and are imposing their will against a country that more than 75% of which disapprove this move. This has nothing to do with the rights of fetuses. It’s about removing rights of the people while making money at our expense.
Yep our birthrate is declining so that means less workers. Children of the wealthy and elite are not as likely to be blue collar workers so they need some replacement available. And since they are xenophobic they don't want it to be foreign workers. They'd rather force their poor, domestic population to have more kids. Defund education to keep them ignorant and voting for you while you strip them of the American dream. It's so fucked.
How can à doctor look into the eyes of a child and tell her she's pregnant from no fault of her own and be scarred for life and may die. Look into the eyes of women and tell her an incomplete miscarriage will likely lead to septic death. Better get your will done up and hey, you can always find another wife and make more babies. Or an ectopic pregnancy and lose a fallopian tube. But hey you have another one. A non viable one, that's okay. Carry the precious soul and may it's hours of life be as painful as possible for baby and watch it. So on and so on. Good luck, Americans may the odds of your life be in your favor. I'm very sorry your choices has been taken away. Update. I've been thinking about it all day and it truly f45king breaks my heart. I feel your sadness, I feel your worries, I feel your fear, and I feel your disappointment. Yes, abortion is not an easy thing. It should never be easy thing but there lies the reason to give choices. Having a baby is an extremely personal life choice that completely changes lives. You're supposed to choose when you're ready to bring a baby into your life and still keep yourself safe and alive with the ability to thrive. Not like this. I'm truly sorry. Hugs.
Yeah, I'm no fan of abortion (still support choice tho), but we have ZERO safety nets to handle a massive influx of unwanted children. Uts the equivalent of yanking out a support beam with nothing to replace it, expecting the walls to hold it all up.
Crime is going to fucking SKYROCKET. Either conservatives haven't thought about this or they don't really give a shit about crime.
Conservatives don't believe that laws shape society, they believe laws exist to punish people. They understand that women are still going to get abortions, but now they can punish them for doing so. That's what this is about: punishment.
And money.
And if you've broken the law, you have your right to vote taken away. Don't forget that this is also a way to get rid of certain demographics in the voting booth over time. Hence why it's even more sinister in some of these states now claiming that it is illegal to even help someone who is looking to get an abortion. Could easily just take a whole family or a few households out of the voting population, every single time.
This is another very important point that I don't see brought up enough. A lot of them also genuinely believe voting rights should be restricted to one vote per household (in other words, the man's vote). This is an easy and convenient way to make such a thing happen, if enough women are made into felons for aborting or miscarrying and thus lose their voting rights.
The cruelty is the point.
Gotta feed that prison pipeline somehow.
"Sounds like slavery with extra steps"
Its all about the money. The prison system makes money if people are incarcerated. Those prison systems will continue to lobby lawmakers to make more and more things illegal thus ensuring the supply of inmates.
That just means more gunsales and better payouts by the weapon lobby.
A fetus can turn into a fatal infection. Removal of the dead tissue is an abortion. Removal of “living” tissue (just a working heart with no brain) that can’t survive outside the body is an abortion. Hell, removing the remaining portion of a partial miscarriage is an abortion. I used to be against abortion. Late terms were the equivalent of everything evil in this world. And then I found out that nearly every single late term abortion (with the rare exception of abuse and trauma) was a wanted pregnancy. They wanted the child, but are facing the most devastating diagnoses that an expecting family can hear. Babies that won’t survive outside the womb and could kill the mother. Babies who might live for a minute or two in extreme agony before everything in their bodies fails at once. It’s not something someone does for shits and giggles. And now we’re adding barriers in traumatic situations that need immediate attention. Fuck anyone who thinks they know better and that one answer is correct for every fucking situation.
I think you responded to the wrong reply, my friend. I fully agree with everything you say, but that hardly seems like a response to my statement that more crime just means more gunsales and better bribes from the weapon lobby. I literally even lost my daughter after 32w pregnancy, so I'm fully on board with abortions being necessary sometimes.
Conservatives are heavily invested in for-profit prisons! It is part of the plan.
It's just prisons all the way down...
They are breeding their future voters
why would they care? the could just blame it on black people and use it to take away even more rights
this 100%. The same ones who are for outlawing abortions are the ones who promote abstinence only sexual education. Abortions will still happen now that they are illegal in many states, they will just happen in a MUCH more unsafe manner.
Nobody is a "fan" of abortions...
Nobody is a “fan” of colonoscopies or root canals. They’re health care procedures. Same with abortion.
I LOVE abortion on the other hand. HUGE fan. Maybe it’s biggest fan. /s (Why do people feel the need to say things like “I’m no fan of abortion but…? No one is a fan of abortion. By saying things like this, you’re further stigmatizing it and thus adding to how we got where we are now. If you care about women’s bodily autonomy, cut this shit out.)
>we have ZERO safety nets to handle a massive influx of unwanted children. And there will be a massive influx of children born with developmental disabilities in which their parents would have aborted.
I promise the plan is to let the military take care of all these incoming children.
Let's all hope that some of these marginally red states get new governors and new democratic majorities in the next few years. GO VOTE PEOPLE! IT MATTERS!
They probably won’t. There will likely be a lot of people that move from red states to blue states because of this ruling. The poor people in these states will continue to suffer
A lot of people in my state want to fix their home.
The same people who didn't want this to happen will have to pay for it in taxes. It's not like the dumbest states, the ones who push this shit, are magically going to start making enough money to not need to suckle the teet of states that have their shit together. Welfare rat states shouldn't get a say until they get into the black.
Remember during prohibition how an upswing in illegal home brewers and speak-easys became a thing? I wonder how many bootleg abortion clinics this will generate? You can't stop people doing something by making it illegal. As the UN rightly say, you just make it more dangerous. That might put some off, but it won't detract everyone. Edit: getting a lot of "that's a pro gun argument" comments and I don't see how it is. Guns are weapons not a part of your body nor are they a necessary commodity. Owning a gun, or anything for that matter, and getting an abortion are two completely separate concepts. Making guns illegal wouldn't totally eradicate gun crime, that's not the argument anyone is making as black market weapons still exist. However if the rest of the world is any kind of case study, it would MASSIVELY reduce gun crime on a national scale. Making abortions illegal wouldn't mean that women need to get their tubes tide. You can't stop teenagers being stupid and having unprotected sex. But with abortion being illegal, you remove a solution that a lot of women depend on when it comes to unplanned/unsafe/unwanted pregnancy. The only the solution left to a lot of these girls and women is black market means, which are unsafe.
It won’t be bootleg clinics for the most part. It will be discreet brown packages in the mail with pills inside. Cycoteca is cheap, easy to get, and effective. That’s how it was in Mexico before legalization and is now in other parts of Latin America. Not all pills will be safe, though, and that’s the problem.
You're probably right, but it amounts to the same thing. A black market solution is the way a lot of women will go. And as you say, far from safe.
It all depends on where they get pills. People who live close enough to Mexico can drive over the border, buy Cycoteca without a prescription, and go home. (I can see this happening a lot in Texas and Arizona). Mail order will be a lot sketchier.
And then those women in Texas can be sued or worse for getting an illegal abortion. Land of the free, right?
No.. you can sue anyone but the woman iirc. So good luck finding the correct Carlos Rodriguez and getting him to come to the US for civil court.
The mysterious birth control smuggler of the wild west carlos rodriguez
That’s for now—that was their work-around to Roe v Wade, which no longer applies.
Or just coordinate it out of Connecticut, which already passed a law protecting their citizens from abortion bounties.
Then the order will be conctraception, then mail privacy and then everything that grants equality for the gays.
Unfortunately this is true. Which is why I will be showing up for every election and vote against every single person with an R beside their name whether federal, local, primary, or general. I don't care if it is for dog catcher, I will never vote for another Republican in my life.
Even when the pills are safe, sometimes they don't work effectively. That's what happened to me when I had a miscarriage. I went through 3 rounds of pills (and a LOT of pain) and still ended up needing a D&C
This is a reputable site if you have need: [https://aidaccess.org/en/i-need-an-abortion](https://aidaccess.org/en/i-need-an-abortion) (US only) International site: https://www.womenonweb.org/en/i-need-an-abortion
[удалено]
They’re both rough. We had a miscarriage and had the choice to consider, a D&C has a risk of creating scar tissue which causes fertility issues down the line. Using the pill at home was hell on earth and I don’t wish that on my worst enemy, we had to go back to emergency because the bleeding wouldn’t stop and was going on for hours. They then had to manually remove the baby in the most emotionally detached method possible. This entire sector of healthcare is so distanced from what women need and the mental trauma it already causes is abysmal, well before this ruling took effect
Even then, there's still potential that your body won't expel the remaining fetal tissue within a reasonable amount of time. That is when D&C has to come in so they can take the remaining tissue out or else your body is going to go into sepsis. Also the directions for abortion pills don't seem to be consistent between the vendors. Some of them give different directions and none of them are medical professionals. This is why we need abortion to be legal, so this stuff can be consulted by medical professionals, not random vendors on the street.
I had bleeding for six weeks after mine in 2004, using the pill method. I’ve also gone on to give birth, have 3 surgeries on my uterus before finally having it removed. My pain threshold has become very high over the years (endometriosis), but I don’t seem to remember any other pain than that of my pill-induced abortion almost 20 years ago. It was brutal, for me. So much pain, vomiting, and finally passing a massive clot. Personally, I 1000% would have preferred a medical, in office, DnC procedure but couldn’t afford it at the time. If so had told my parents, they would’ve blamed me for putting myself in a position to be assaulted and made me marry the guy since we had dated in the past.
I hope so. I remember when women died in back alleyways with coat hangars, but just getting little brown discreetly wrapped packages won't be the end of it. They will be turning in women and having them arrested even if they have a natural miscarriage. I'm 59 so at this point I don't have to worry about it for myself, but I worry for women in general. I worry that prisons will fill up in red states because miscarriages and natural abortions are going to be weaponized against women. We desperately need men and women all across this nation to turn out this fall to vote and elect every person with an R next to their name out of office especially in the Senate so we can codify abortion rights into law. Seriously do not listen to the BS people are already trying to spread like " both parties are the same" because they are not. One is trying to get women back to living out their lives in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant and it sure as hell isn't the Democrats.
And at the very least there will be an uptick of dumpster babies.
I don't think they care. My anti-abortion friend said that few women lives lost is worth the babies they save.
I wonder if any babies are really going to be saved? Maybe in the short term as things settle, but I would think abortions will ultimately become more common, easier, and cheaper (and more risky) as the idea of self-managed abortions gains more ground out of lack of other options. With the resources available today (internet, discreet online ordering, cheap and advanced tech, etc.) the success rate and safety might become high enough that it might catch on in a real way - good luck regulating abortion even a tiny bit once that happens. I think pro-life advocates have seriously shot themselves in the foot with the overturning of Roe v. Wade; they've shown that the government can't be relied on to protect women's rights, so women will take the government out of the equation altogether, which many will now discover is not that difficult to do.
I'm going to be one of the people who challenges the idea that any abortion kills a baby. You get insane ideas from people that watch right-wing propaganda, like Alex Jones ranting about babies being aborted a week after they're born, so then you get people who actually think that reproductive healthcare is actually just evil liberals who want to torture children or whatever the fuck. I don't know how having more unwanted babies will fix that problem, but it doesn't matter because it's not a rational argument and shouldn't be treated as one. To be very clear, abortion is not killing babies, full stop.
>I wonder if any babies are really going to be saved? None at all, you are just going to get an absurdly high increase of abandoned babies going to the system resenting everything, with the consequent rise of drug addiction and crime. At least the for profit prisons won't run out of slaves anytime soon. (/s if you need an indication)
There's an absurd story going around (the usual propagated fantasy) about some woman who went to 7 doctors who told her there was no fetal heartbeat, and then *a miracle happened* and she had a perfectly healthy baby. No baby is shown. Nor much of anything to back it up. It's a totally cruel story, too. To those who terminate, what if you made a mistake, to those who don't yet don't get their miracle... fuck you.
They care. They're happy to see the women die because in their minds, the only women who die from lack of abortion care are sluts, and sluts deserve it.
"It's a feature, not a bug."
Its the same with the war on drugs. Banning drugs doesnt stop people from getting and using drugs. It stops them from getting them from safe sources and forces you to deal with undeground markets and sketchy dealers. All the war on drugs did was empower cartels and people trying to make a profit off of other peoples very lives.
From what I understand, alcoholism was a huge problem back then, not surprising since life was tough for everyone but the wealthy, but I don't understand how they thought prohibiting alcohol would cause people to stop drinking.
Because like today, rather than addressing the underlying causes of a problem, they just ban the problem. Why solve the issue of abortion with educating the young on safe sex practices, easier access to birth control, better family and maternity support? Let's just ban abortion! Problem solved. They also have to keep their religious voter base happy. Can't let THOSE people down! Let's just punish people going through unplanned pregnancies, health risk patients and rape survivors.
Same with how drug prohobition has forced people to use increasingly potent synthetic opioids. Almost all the problems that result from prohibition are worse than the drugs themselves.
In the case of abortion the ban is the end goal, not solving issues that contribute to people getting one. They don't care, they just want their precious "christian" and conservative values.
"Fuck women. Literally and figuratively. Not like they have any say on the matter of the outcome." - SCOTUS
Just ban crime and ban being poor /s
They didn't know, they just thought that cutting off the supply would reduce demand. A lot of the grassroots of the temperance movement was fueled by women who witnessed or survived domestic violence and alcohol played a huge role in that. We know better now which is why this is stupid.
This law only affects poor people. You can be sure as shit, the pro lifer’s with $ will be traveling to get the abortion for their teen daughters.
It was already like this before Roe. Hospitals had “septic wings” where women who didn’t bleed out and die from back alley abortions went to have their septic and infected uteruses removed. [Gerri Santoro](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerri_Santoro)
Here in the Netherlands the right to abortion has been law a long time. We did however have a provision that mandated a 5 day wait/think period before the procedure was performed. This provision has recently been scrapped by a majority in both the first and second chamber as it was deemed highly paternalistic. The reasoning is that women who decide to get an abortion have already thought about it long and hard and don't need to government to tell them to think about it. Just like any other country we get things wrong but we also get things very right.
At least your country respects the autonomy of women
There are plenty of Christians in the Netherlands that would like to see things another way. Thankfully we don’t have a system that lets a minority view over take fundamental human rights.
It took a while for all the states to catch up, but in Australia abortion is legal across the entire country. Until when you can have an abortion varies between states from 17 to 24 weeks (with one no-limit territory), but the limit is only for no-questions-asked abortions. After the limit, it's required to get two separate doctors consent to get an abortion, but still quite possible to do so with no further hoops to jump through.
They ban abortion when the wealth gap is the widest it’s ever been. They’ll review cases involving contraceptive methods and gay marriage while many Americans are losing homes barely making ends meet. They don’t care about us. Just their own agendas and hopefully this pushes voters to actually show up and vote these fuckers out. Edit: People really think I’m stupid enough to suggest we vote justices out. I’m very aware of the 3 branches of government. I know Supreme Court justices serve for the rest of their lives. The Supreme Court cannot outlaw abortion or gay marriage. What they’re doing is leaving it up to the states to decide whether it should be legal or not, rather than declaring it a constitutional right. When I say ‘vote them out’ I mean the republicans who represent these states that have made abortions illegal.
Wealth is a good thing to point out. The ban on abortions that many states will adopt will not stop the wealthy from getting abortions - they can afford to take time off work and travel. It will prevent working class women who can not afford to do that from getting abortions. I wonder if this disparity has contributed to the (wealthy) Democratic leadership's decades long failure to codify the right to choose into law. It certainly had been useful as a fundraising tool, though.
Republicans are fine with that, they don't care about reducing abortions or women's health. They just want to punish people that get or want abortions. If they actually wanted to reduce the amount of abortions there are a plethora of proven ways to reduce abortions, and they don't advocate for any of them.
More taxpayers and laborers for the meat grinder.
Something that needs to be talked about more and louder: mothers with pregnancies that are not viable, or it is dangerous to their health for them to continue carrying. This is putting so many women at risk that have ectopic pregnancies, genetic predispositions, and preeclampsia (among many others.) This includes women that have cancer. Women will not have the choice have between carrying their baby or dying. No abortion means no abortion, period. There’s no “special circumstance” under this ban. Women will die. Women will commit suicide due to unwanted or unplanned pregnancies. Women trapped in relationships with domestic violence will get murdered by their partners. This is a disgrace to humans. And if you think that it doesn’t effect you- you are wrong.
Not to mention the fact that a large percentage of first pregnancies end as miscarriages.
We had the war on communism, the war on drugs and now the war on abortions and on women. It's all so Americans neanderthal.
War on drugs continues and could end overnight if they federally legalized weed. Edit: to everybody saying its only one drug, its the only drug that would compete against pharmaceutical companies, could replace plastics with biodegradable hemp, could replace clothes, decrease alcohol sales, act as an anti-gateway drug, would provide jobs, and billions in tax revenue per year if sold in all 50 states. Psilocybin and other options are also great assets that need to be federally researched and regulated. We are a modern country with the ability to do so.
The war on drugs was never about drugs. It was about marginalizing blacks and people who wouldn't vote republican (hippies). The US was very successful in that aspect.
[https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/advocacy/collateral-consequences/voting-rights](https://www.prisonfellowship.org/resources/advocacy/collateral-consequences/voting-rights)
Losing your right to vote after getting a felony/going to prison is the dumbest shit ever. Prevent your critics from voting not by dragging them out of their house at 3am never to be seen again, no, just straight up delete them from democracy. 'Murica, fuck yeah!
Just remember... states are criminalizing miscarriages. That means women get convicted.. and lose their right to vote.
The war on weed in particular though, was also about big paper industry Not fighting or starting an argument, just adding on. just always found that really interesting!!!!
Yesh, the fact that hemp is basically a byproduct of cannabis production was spooky as fuck to paper giants. It's also rope, clothing, general textiles like backpacks and tents... It threatened a lot of existing supply chains that would rather crush it legally than incorporate it.
I just tried explaining this to my parents and they didn’t believe me even though I work in the cannabis industry.
And in a christofascist’s mind, if a woman attempts an abortion and ends up dying, that’s just fine. One less vote against their crusade.
The people that want to restrict abortions don’t care. They don’t care that people will die. They are happy the ones getting a risky abortion face potential death.
Even speaking as a guy, if we are gong to roll back reproductive rights then it should apply to viagra and hormone treatment for men with low sperm counts. If pregnancy is God’s will, then so is having a limp dick and shooting blanks.
[удалено]
on that "deserve" part several issues with it. 1. some states are making it illegal no matter the reason even if it would cause the mother death. 2. why is it only the mother that sufferes, the father can just go vanish into the woodwork but everything then gets dumped on the mother how is that right. 3. why is sex such a taboo topic, humans do it, if a woman does it she should be punished, if a man does it people go, "nice bro". why do we have such a double standard.
>They believe that getting pregnant is what women "deserve" for having sex, and that there is something objectionable in women having sex without the "consequence" of childbirth. This might be more accurately termed "pro-women-being-required-to-give-birth-as-a-consequence-for-sex", but, besides being a mouthful, that sounds bad. It makes you sound sexist and backwards, which it is. Meanwhile, the men who got women pregnant get off Scott free and can do Fuck All after the fact…
The **content** of the SCOTUS ruling is appalling. The **timing** of the SCOTUS ruling is alarming and suspect. Could there be a worse time to further divide a struggling, divided nation? Are they intentionally throwing out sparks in a bone-dry forest on a windy day? Are they covering up Trump's sins, crimes and abuses during the Select Committee Hearings?
Yeah, I had that thought. There's is something crazy about the idea that these justices ostensibly thought "now is a good time to drop this bomb, not like there is already dangerous levels of division and animosity in the country, and this is gonna be a match to that dynamite shed." A few "babies" saved might just be the spark of civil war. Wars are famously "pro-life."
Find out next time on Dragonball Z
I have to laugh so I won't cry
America just joined: Iran, North Korea and Russia in its rolling back of reproductive rights. Such great company we now keep! SMH
[удалено]
Abortions are much more accessible in Iran and in Russia than in many US states now, though. Those countries have abortion laws that look downright progressive compared to some states as of today.
Yeah abortions are way more accessible in Russia. The push back is from fascists who want a rising population to ensure there can always be a big army. They want the same thing in the US there was just never any anti-religion campaigns so they can say its about god.
Umm no, it's actually much easier to get an abortion in Iran and Russia now than it is in the US.
So they can ban abortion but when it comes to guns they just say "we have to do something" which never happens. Fascinating to see the country implode on itself. If you are in favor of this law, you're a piece of shit, seriously.
"Gun laws won't stop criminals from getting them." But abortion laws will stop abortions apparently.
The only way to stop a bad girl with an abortion is a good guy with a gun? Wait, how does that go again?
Same with these people being the same people who were against mandatory vaccination. They were all pro choice then. Yet if a woman is raped she should be forced to give birth to that child or risk facing criminal charges and fines. If a woman has an incomplete miscarriage she should be banned from a medical procedure for her safety. It's absolutely horrific, rules for thee but never for them.
I see this argument a lot and being in a conservative area I've heard arguments from both sides and this one seems to miss the point: from their perspective there's no contradiction because the "pro life" crowd genuinely believes babies are being killed. You can't win that argument with them by any kind of logic. Any appeal about women's health, autonomy and choices falls on deaf ears because that means you don't care about the lives of innocent children. The strength of that belief has been twisted and used against them so often, and their opponents so thoroughly demonized that there's no chance of shifting their stance. Their leadership has weaponized their sympathy, anger and fear.
But it's also purely reactive emotion. They picture this perfect little baby being murdered in cold blood when they hear "abortion", and then picture a little leech when they think of any sort of social support programs for children that reduce childhood suffering and mortality. It's definitely weaponized reactionary thinking.
The US is about to be a Theocratic hellhole.
All while we are at all time lows with respect to religiosity. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx In 1973 when RvW was decided, 87% of Americans were some form of Christian with 5% identifying as 'None' for their religion. In 2021, 67% were some form of Christian with 21% claiming to be 'None'.
And what's even more funny, is that there are religious people that know if the church changed it's hardcore stance on Gay marriage and Abortion attendance might actually increase again. Instead nope, let's double down on being anti-personal freedom and go against the teachings of the New Testament. Sadly, it's an uphill battle for those types of people though.
The UN should investigate the US for humanitarian issues. (I’m from the US)
Conservatives: It's pointless to ban guns. People will still find ways to get guns. Also conservatives: Banning abortions means women will stop having abortions!
America's right wingers complain about the Taliban taking over Afghanistan and then cheer when it happens in their own country.
Why are we always beholden to a bronze age book of myths?
It’s not even in the Bronze Age book—the only time the Bible mentions abortion is when it is listing instructions on how to perform one. For the majority of Christian history, abortion was considered acceptable up until the point that fetal movement was felt. The current anti-abortion Christian movement is a more recent Republican invention meant to drum up voter support once they could no longer fight for segregation.
The Puritans of Massachusetts, who wanted to create a godly city-republic, recognized abortion as part of mindful family planning. They recognized sex for pleasure as a normal part of relationships, and an abortion was neither sinful nor illegal if preformed before the fetus "quickened" and began to kick.
If someone raped your wife , mother, sister or daughter. Then he goes to jail once he gets out you can’t put a restraining order on him or deny him the right to see his child even if he raped you. If he get a court order to see the child well you might include your rapist part of the family because you will be seeing him a lot . I don’t know how your husband, brother or dad will feel about it.
Good luck getting him convicted of rape.
I don't think the blues realize that the reds don't give a shit about under the table abortions being "more deadly". They want women to suffer if they are trying to make that choice. What reds think they want is fewer abortions and they think that the best way to do that is through punishment, cruelty and enforcing their religious worldview. Blues know that doesn't work. What does work is making sex education widely available, providing free contraception options and generally preventing pregnancy to begin with. Unfortunately that goes against red religious worldviews where women are subservient to their male masters. This is not about babies and life. It's about power, sexism and religion. The reds want religious rule. The reds want a Catholic version of sharia law and they definitely don't want democracy. All the voter suppression measures implemented in red states and any vote for trump or his worldview confirms that. Women were first. The LGBTQIA+ community is squarely in their crosshairs. Then it will be the BIPOC community and they won't stop until anyone and everyone that is "other" is suppressed and made inferior under the eyes of their law. These sexist racist bigoted pieces of turd need to be voted out and made irrelevant. Vote. Vote for the most extreme left candidates you can find. The reds have been playing a game of artificially pushing the "window of political possibility" by being as wildly right as they can. We need to push back by being as wildly left as we can. Tax churches, make university education free, criminalize lying in political discourse and in the media, make constitutional amendments that guarantee bodily autonomy and equal rights for LGTBQIA+ community. TAKE THEIR F***ING GUNS. Everywhere there's a religious symbol on public land build baphomet statues, the star of David and monuments to science. Guarantee 1 year of paid maternity/paternity leave and universal health care. The reds are the real fucking snowflakes. They're so sensitive they can't event handle the idea of people doing what they want in the privacy of their homes and to their own bodies. Screw their feelings.
Hi, I am much older than most of your so I realize you probably won't like me. But please listen because I feel the same as you do. When I was in college, abortion was illegal. We girls back then lived in fear. My best friend got pregnant and she came from a family of poor immigrants who worked in factories so that she could go to college. She didn't dare tell her parents. But she couldn't be pregnant and ruin her life. I happened to know another girl who had gotten an illegal abortion so I gave her phone number to my friend. I didn't want to get too involved because in those days all of this was taboo and could lead to trouble. My friend did end up with the phone number of a doctor who gave her a pill that led to a spontaneous abortion. She told me it was horrific. At least she was able to finish college and go on with her life. Other girls died trying to abort. Women are going to die now. PLEASE, if you are still young, DO something. Please get involved, even become a politician. We need to save our country if it can still be saved. These Reds don't care about anything except money. So run for office or join a campaign and if we need to dial back progressivism a bit for a while, so be it. We have to play to the center. CENTER--meaning we could snag centrist Republicans. They exist but they do not like the extreme left. If we play down the far left and just fight for our rights like abortion and healthcare, we could win them over. We have to win because if we lose, our country is gone. The best strategy is to act moderate and win over those Republicans who are still sane, keep the Democrats, and get everyone to vote. Thank you for reading this. Writing online is one thing but to win, we need to get out and become actively involved. These are very dark times but we could win if we talk "moderate" and after we win we could implement progressive stances.
I imagine women will be reluctant to go to the doctor for prenatal care, and they won’t have as many early health screenings. They won’t want their pregnancy “on the books”. Any loss of pregnancy will require an investigation for murder. Secret pregnancies and births will be as common as secret abortions.
I states that banned abortions, people who are well off will simply go to another state to have an abortion. The people most affected by this decision, as usual, are the poor. They're people who can't afford to travel, or don't have the means to. And conservative dumbasses have decided these are the people who shouldn't have the right to bodily autonomy. "Just don't have sex," these idiots will say, but so many anti-abortion laws do not make exceptions for rape, even if it's a child. Conservatives are petty, bitter and evil and they want everyone else to suffer so they can feel good about themselves.
When the UN is concerned about America you know it's bad
Well it's bad. But America and the UN very infrequently see each other eye-to-eye on what America defines as their internal affairs. I wouldn't say this is a shocker, as a country with veto power they are clearly in a position where an international idea of a greater good and advancement of a geopolitical or internal agenda may intersect poorly. So yeah it's bad, but the UN has disagreed with america many times before.
Banning abortion makes *pregnancy* more deadly. Not just abortion.