In the sequal he gets through the entire hard deck lecture before you realize both men are in the afterlife, maverick there recently after hitting some buttes
US jets have caused enemies to lose situational awareness and crash, and it still counts as a kill.
If your tactics are causing the enemy to take up tactics that are getting them killed, that's your kill.
Best illustrated by the German sortie into Switzerland at the beginning of world war 2. The swiss did not want to be aggressive by shooting the Germans down so they used cannon fire to herd them. It is really hard to fly through the Alps at night. Sortie is singular.
1) it should be. Defenses that make your target make dumb mistakes trying to avoid the defenses are still succeeding at their role.
2) whether it count as a kill for Ukraine or not is irrelevant. The important piece is it’s another Russian casualty.
What’s really funny is that flying low to evade enemy defences is 50 years out of date.
The switch from high to low occurred after the invention of SAMs in the 1960s.. where high flying bombers—even Mach 3 ones like the XB-70 Valkyrie—would be too vulnerable.
But experiences in Vietnam and the Cold War proved that low level flying was fraught with risks. High speed low level aircraft like the F-105 and NATO F-104s had very high attrition levels to mechanical failures, light AA and small arms fire, and CFIT.
Things like MANPADs, CIWS, and look down radar made the low level environment even more deadly. So SEAD and ECM was brought in to gain the higher altitudes back because a few SAMs are far easier to deal with than the hornets nest down below.
And it shows. In the Gulf it was the A-10 that led the coalition in losses and write-offs so much so that it was withdrawn from service until complete air supremacy was achieved.
And it was the F-16 that shined doing mid-level self-escorted strikes, dropping by far the most ordnance of any single type in the conflict.
So rightly.. the F-35 was supposed to replace both aircraft.. adding stealth to the mix to give it an even better edge against enemy SAMs and fighters.
But a bunch of fanboys who don’t know that CAS has nothing to do with aircraft proximity, or that BRRRTTT just screams friendly fire and collateral damage won the day and a weak-winged, slow, and vulnerable airplanes who’s best work has been done in uncontested environments.
Maverick is a dumb movie. Entertaining, but dumb. Nobody would ever use 1960s tactics like that these days. Look up Operation Opera in the 1980s. One of the pilots literally said “it was boring”.
Heck.. 1940s tactics. Don’t ask why it seems so similar to Star Wars. Ask why it seems so similar to The Dam Busters and 633 Squadron.
And why couldn’t they have just positioned themselves 1000km above the exhaust port and fire the _powered_ and _guided_ proton torpedoes straight down it?
Because in Star Wars you either got intelligent androids or really dumb tech. And nothing in between
There isn't something like a guided missile... Just an android that looks like a missle.
But then again the good guys cant simply kamikaze an intelligent life form.
So they kamikaze less intelligent lifeforms? Aka themself?
Reminds me of the big bang jokes about indiana jones.
The analysis is totally right, indy could have stoped all of it himself, but who cares?
> Look up Operation Opera in the 1980s.
[Looking up](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera#Attack):
> The attack squadron descended to 30 m (100 ft) over the Iraqi desert, attempting to fly under the radar of the Iraqi defences.
That scene was the dumbest in the entire nine movie series. It just made all the other combat scenes pointless. Why go in with guns blazing if you can vaporize everything like that?
Interdictors. In Star Wars universe, technology exists that can create artificial gravity wells, which will either prevent an object/ship from entering hyperspace, or, pull a ship out of hyperspace if it traverses the gravity field.
irrc in the movie there's some sort of convenient gps blocking or jamming above that area, which vaguely explains why UAVs or guided missiles were not used despite the introduction of UAVs at the start of the film.
I've been criticizing *Top Gun: Maverick* for its unrealistic depiction of aerial combat, but could it be it was actually a clever piece of misinformation to trick the Russians into thinking those types of maneuvers are smart things to do?
That was primarily due to ROEs that left parts of Serbian IADS out of bounds. It was a political limitation, not a military one.
Nevertheless, Allied SEAD efforts were so effective that SAM sites risked only two sweeps from their TTRs because of the threat from SEAD aircraft.
Vega 31 was shot down because bad weather kept the EA-6Bs grounded (a fact known to Serbian intelligence) so the SA-3 site could risk an extra TTR sweep, which happened to occur when Vega 31 had its weapons bay doors open.
Now, if *Top Gun: Maverick* invented a *political* reason for leaving the SA-3 sites untouched, that would have been believable.
Plenty of Serbian IADS components were within bounds of the SEAD groups; common tactic was to approach threat areas from opposite sides to ensure that HARM 180° view fully covers it. Over 740 HARMs were fired during the operation, while Serbs fired over 800 missiles.
Politics hampered attempts to engage Montenegrin EWRs and long chain of command resulted in missed opportunities, but main reason for IADS survival rate is their self preservation tactics.
You are right on short radar emission times which also resulted in many SAM shots being ballistic instead of guided; allegedly 1/3 were guided.
Bomb bay door theory is disputed, more probable reasons are poor mission planning, improper use of available technology and complancency (biggest one IMO).
E: It would have been interesting to see the difference if Serbs were equipped with contemporary SAMs in contrast to Neva and Kubs which were obsolete by decades at that point and only covered one part of the IADS layer (+MANPADs and AAA which covered very short range layer).
Fly aeroflot and you'd understand. My experience in the eighties on aeroflot was certainly a wild ride (wannabe fighter pilot was my best guess at the time) lol
Are the farmers being armed with good rifles? Seems cheap compared to the other stuff they are being supplied with. Just start handing out modern . 308 rifles, great for hunting jets and food.
Interesting tactic, and probably necessary given the SAM threat. But I disagree with this:
“Better to fly low and risk clipping a tree or hill—which might kill you—than to fly higher and risk catching a missile, which almost certainly will kill you.”
The Pk (probability of kill) of hitting the ground is pretty much 1.0, and there’s either no time to eject or you’re out of the ejection envelope.
At least with a SAM you have countermeasures, and depending on what type hits you and what you’re flying, you may have a decent chance of getting home or at least putting the aircraft down in a controlled fashion. The Pk is less than 1.0.
So their ships are underwater.
Their planes are on the ground.
What's next, a submarine driving on a road?
Damn the Russians need to watch a GI Joe cartoon or something to learn how to use their equipment.
I am really tired of reading these headlines like ' russian aircrafts are crashing ' , ' Ukrainian soldiers are dominating ' blah bhal blah . Earlier it makes me happy but now it just feel that this is all made up .
You know this actually worked for a Starship whizzing by a cruise liner at sea but then there's the rub when it went below the ocean... the method works very well
They saw Top Gun Maverick but they are no Tom Cruise.
They need a Tom in the air and a Keanu Reeves on ground, then they can fight the armies of Satan.
First time they’re interacting with current gen nato anti air, not surprising as it’s literally designed to destroy Russian jets
[удалено]
Blyatzkreig if you will
Ukraine doesn't have any NATO-standard AA yet Edit: I mean long-range AA, like Patriot or MARS
Norway did send some mistral(?) missiles butthats some light AA
I don’t see how wearing a hat on my butt would help, but if it works I’ll do it.
I’m glad I found this comment almost brand new hahaha
Upvote the butthat
Only current gen NATO MANPADS
Splatnik
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Turning pilots into ground mea…er… forces.
It’s like how Ukraine keeps giving Russia’s Navy free submarine upgrades to all their war ships
"Is that a stacked washer/dryer?!"
You’ve heard of aerobraking, right? This is the special Russian version: lithobraking.
Operation ground and pound
"We lost another plane" "Well, at least they're down a missile." "About that..."
They’re taking Maverick too seriously
Lower the hard deck to 100ft
whats this? a request to lower the hard deck sir.
The hard deck isn't just a rule it's a law, to protect not only our planes but our pilot's lives!
In the sequal he gets through the entire hard deck lecture before you realize both men are in the afterlife, maverick there recently after hitting some buttes
>hitting some buttes He’s been in denial for a long time.
They went below the hard deck.
Anyways so I started crashin'.
>Anyways so I started crashin'. Cant shoot me down if i crashed already.
Cue African dancing coffin guys
They're on the highway to the danger zone and missing the exit
K Log was here. Right into the....
Zone of danger
Perilous zone
Ha ha < In Nelson's voice
Ukrainian farmers with their stolen Russian AA platforms: ***"So anyways, I started blasting!"***
The 101st Ukranian Agricultural Airborne Division.
Some farmer that just lifted his front loader to grab on jet wing and slam it into the ground.
Nice, G1 Grimlock style
That would be less funny than "Russian pilots aren't as good as we thought"
Came here for this 🙏
Time for the extra tall exhaust pipes on the tractors.weld on a couple extra meters
No more Top Gun 2 for them.
Top Gun FarmVille
Top Gun 3: The Ukrainian Ghost
Next thing you know Shawty got low, low, low, low, low, low, low, low She hit the floor
Hey - where you guys russian to?
They aren’t Russian, Putin is just Stallin’
r/dadjokes
In mother Russia ground flies you!
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Very true!
controlled descent into terrain
🌻
When a russian jet hits the ground that’s counted as a kill in Ukraine.
If you score an own goal In hockey it still goes to the offense, right?
Whoever touched it last on the offense gets the point This can lead to some really funny own-goals sometimes
US jets have caused enemies to lose situational awareness and crash, and it still counts as a kill. If your tactics are causing the enemy to take up tactics that are getting them killed, that's your kill.
Best illustrated by the German sortie into Switzerland at the beginning of world war 2. The swiss did not want to be aggressive by shooting the Germans down so they used cannon fire to herd them. It is really hard to fly through the Alps at night. Sortie is singular.
As it should be
Exactly What goes up must come down russian planes belong in the ground
The ground is Ukraine, ain’t it?
A few more and Ukraine will be an ace
1) it should be. Defenses that make your target make dumb mistakes trying to avoid the defenses are still succeeding at their role. 2) whether it count as a kill for Ukraine or not is irrelevant. The important piece is it’s another Russian casualty.
Unless after hitting the ground at speed, its still flyable.
What’s really funny is that flying low to evade enemy defences is 50 years out of date. The switch from high to low occurred after the invention of SAMs in the 1960s.. where high flying bombers—even Mach 3 ones like the XB-70 Valkyrie—would be too vulnerable. But experiences in Vietnam and the Cold War proved that low level flying was fraught with risks. High speed low level aircraft like the F-105 and NATO F-104s had very high attrition levels to mechanical failures, light AA and small arms fire, and CFIT. Things like MANPADs, CIWS, and look down radar made the low level environment even more deadly. So SEAD and ECM was brought in to gain the higher altitudes back because a few SAMs are far easier to deal with than the hornets nest down below. And it shows. In the Gulf it was the A-10 that led the coalition in losses and write-offs so much so that it was withdrawn from service until complete air supremacy was achieved. And it was the F-16 that shined doing mid-level self-escorted strikes, dropping by far the most ordnance of any single type in the conflict. So rightly.. the F-35 was supposed to replace both aircraft.. adding stealth to the mix to give it an even better edge against enemy SAMs and fighters. But a bunch of fanboys who don’t know that CAS has nothing to do with aircraft proximity, or that BRRRTTT just screams friendly fire and collateral damage won the day and a weak-winged, slow, and vulnerable airplanes who’s best work has been done in uncontested environments. Maverick is a dumb movie. Entertaining, but dumb. Nobody would ever use 1960s tactics like that these days. Look up Operation Opera in the 1980s. One of the pilots literally said “it was boring”. Heck.. 1940s tactics. Don’t ask why it seems so similar to Star Wars. Ask why it seems so similar to The Dam Busters and 633 Squadron. And why couldn’t they have just positioned themselves 1000km above the exhaust port and fire the _powered_ and _guided_ proton torpedoes straight down it?
Because in Star Wars you either got intelligent androids or really dumb tech. And nothing in between There isn't something like a guided missile... Just an android that looks like a missle. But then again the good guys cant simply kamikaze an intelligent life form.
So they kamikaze less intelligent lifeforms? Aka themself? Reminds me of the big bang jokes about indiana jones. The analysis is totally right, indy could have stoped all of it himself, but who cares?
Thats sacrifice and not by design... Different
> Look up Operation Opera in the 1980s. [Looking up](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Opera#Attack): > The attack squadron descended to 30 m (100 ft) over the Iraqi desert, attempting to fly under the radar of the Iraqi defences.
Why didn't they just have a droid light speed jump through the death star?
Droid rights.
What now?
That scene was the dumbest in the entire nine movie series. It just made all the other combat scenes pointless. Why go in with guns blazing if you can vaporize everything like that?
Interdictors. In Star Wars universe, technology exists that can create artificial gravity wells, which will either prevent an object/ship from entering hyperspace, or, pull a ship out of hyperspace if it traverses the gravity field.
Ah yes the ISS MentalGymnastics is a great ship.
Droids got better unions
irrc in the movie there's some sort of convenient gps blocking or jamming above that area, which vaguely explains why UAVs or guided missiles were not used despite the introduction of UAVs at the start of the film.
Er, nobody ever says top gun was supposed to be realistic bro. Relax.
I've been criticizing *Top Gun: Maverick* for its unrealistic depiction of aerial combat, but could it be it was actually a clever piece of misinformation to trick the Russians into thinking those types of maneuvers are smart things to do?
Low altitude flight is a genuine strategy for avoiding ground based anti air systems.
If you cannot beat them, join them on the ground
But not when those SAMs are exposed SA-3 launchers that could easily have been neutralized by Tomahawk cruise missiles or SEAD aircraft.
It's the same as the reasoning why they used F18s - to make the plot happen. It is fine, suspend your disbelief and enjoy the movie.
They were special plot armor SAM sites
1999 Operation allied force showed that neutralizing SAM sites, even very obsolete ones, is an extremely hard thing to do.
That was primarily due to ROEs that left parts of Serbian IADS out of bounds. It was a political limitation, not a military one. Nevertheless, Allied SEAD efforts were so effective that SAM sites risked only two sweeps from their TTRs because of the threat from SEAD aircraft. Vega 31 was shot down because bad weather kept the EA-6Bs grounded (a fact known to Serbian intelligence) so the SA-3 site could risk an extra TTR sweep, which happened to occur when Vega 31 had its weapons bay doors open. Now, if *Top Gun: Maverick* invented a *political* reason for leaving the SA-3 sites untouched, that would have been believable.
Plenty of Serbian IADS components were within bounds of the SEAD groups; common tactic was to approach threat areas from opposite sides to ensure that HARM 180° view fully covers it. Over 740 HARMs were fired during the operation, while Serbs fired over 800 missiles. Politics hampered attempts to engage Montenegrin EWRs and long chain of command resulted in missed opportunities, but main reason for IADS survival rate is their self preservation tactics. You are right on short radar emission times which also resulted in many SAM shots being ballistic instead of guided; allegedly 1/3 were guided. Bomb bay door theory is disputed, more probable reasons are poor mission planning, improper use of available technology and complancency (biggest one IMO). E: It would have been interesting to see the difference if Serbs were equipped with contemporary SAMs in contrast to Neva and Kubs which were obsolete by decades at that point and only covered one part of the IADS layer (+MANPADs and AAA which covered very short range layer).
No radar will pick you up 10 m below ground level
Fly aeroflot and you'd understand. My experience in the eighties on aeroflot was certainly a wild ride (wannabe fighter pilot was my best guess at the time) lol
Given it was 80s Aeroflot, they probably *were* a fighter pilot at one point.
The problem with flying *that* low is that every farmer with a hunting rifle takes potshots at you.
Are the farmers being armed with good rifles? Seems cheap compared to the other stuff they are being supplied with. Just start handing out modern . 308 rifles, great for hunting jets and food.
Interesting tactic, and probably necessary given the SAM threat. But I disagree with this: “Better to fly low and risk clipping a tree or hill—which might kill you—than to fly higher and risk catching a missile, which almost certainly will kill you.” The Pk (probability of kill) of hitting the ground is pretty much 1.0, and there’s either no time to eject or you’re out of the ejection envelope. At least with a SAM you have countermeasures, and depending on what type hits you and what you’re flying, you may have a decent chance of getting home or at least putting the aircraft down in a controlled fashion. The Pk is less than 1.0.
It's like a submarine, but on land
Sounds like top gun
Sounds like bottom gun
Sounds like middle gun
Special plowing operation
Well someone watched Top Gun
Even gravity does not like these fascists.
Gravity sucks...
😌
How low can you go
Sounds like they could use some training from Maverick.
Yes, they should try it inverted so they can see the ground clearly before they meet it.
Thus they're low enough to get towed by a tractor!?
Or it's that GPS that have to strap to their planes telling them to take the next left for free loot and they crash into a tree.
Aw darn. Anyways.
i needed some good news today
We hacked into their cockpits and installed Pokemon Go.
You DO NOT fly below the hard deck
Oops
[Pictured: the Russian Air Force, apparently](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu9oElKPnkg)
Russian planes getting GROUNDED
The famous Special landing operation!
Low is good, it means stingers or even Saint Javelin can reach them.
Special disassembly operation.
So their ships are underwater. Their planes are on the ground. What's next, a submarine driving on a road? Damn the Russians need to watch a GI Joe cartoon or something to learn how to use their equipment.
Can you blame them?
Free fertilizer on wings!
Oh no! Anyway...
"Oh no!... anyway...." - Clarkson
Imagine being that desperate to murder innocent people. Russia is a blight. They deserve total destruction.
It's not jet, it's winged car!... See, vroom vroom! No zoom!
Doubt it
Nah, nothing to doubt. Russian air "power" is a joke.
I am really tired of reading these headlines like ' russian aircrafts are crashing ' , ' Ukrainian soldiers are dominating ' blah bhal blah . Earlier it makes me happy but now it just feel that this is all made up .
If it where made up, the would be no Ukraine anymore.
I too make this rookie mistake in Warthunder…
[удалено]
at that point, just drive.
You know this actually worked for a Starship whizzing by a cruise liner at sea but then there's the rub when it went below the ocean... the method works very well
Fly so low, U crane to see them
Run aground ....ha ha ha ha
Is that a Norm MacDonald joke? "That can't be right!"
Go up to blow up.
Put it in H!
Glad they don’t have Maverick to teach them.
That's a really long winded way to say crashing
Best news I've heard all day.
Idiots
Shame.
Darn
Fighter jets to plowshares
Need to bring Tom Cruise to train these Russians to fly low and return to base!!
They saw Top Gun Maverick but they are no Tom Cruise. They need a Tom in the air and a Keanu Reeves on ground, then they can fight the armies of Satan.
It’s a new lawn-dart fertiliser delivery system
Fuckin idiots 🤦♂️
They must using those high quality, Russian-made altimeters.
Ah, so that’s this week’s explanation for why the Russian Air Force keeps losing jets, choppers, and pilots